What would be a return to glory?

So I am sitting here on this dreary Friday afternoon, during these dog days of January, and there is this question gnawing at me. It’s been bothering me for weeks, as I read and reread the debate between the Crean faithful and those not so convinced.

What, exactly, would be a return to glory?

You hear glory — you think glory. Since this is NCAA basketball we are talking about, maybe glory looks more like this. Either way, we can all probably say that glory means championships.

But when you, dear Hoosier Scoop readers, talk about returning to glory, are you specifically thinking championships? A return to the days of three championships in 12 seasons?

Or would you be OK with one championship every 1-10 seasons? Or 11-20? How about a couple of Final Four appearances a decade? Or consistently contending for a Big Ten title and making the Sweet 16?

Or, at this point, would you just be happy with .500?

Putting it another way — what are your realistic expectations for what Tom Crean can do with this program?

What is your mindset in 2010, some 23 years since the last NCAA championship and eight since a Final Four. It’s been 17 seasons since an outright Big Ten title — also the last time the Hoosiers got a No. 1 seed.

A lot has happened since those banners were hung in Assembly Hall. A lot. This guy left and set the NCAA wins record at Texas Tech. This guy took over and it never felt right. And, then, well — there was this guy. Let’s just say none of us have looked at a cell phone calling plan quite the same.

In my mind, part of what has always made the Scoop the Scoop was the journalism. And that was aided by the fact that Chris, Dustin and I are not Indiana men. Those two are from Pennsylvania. I am from California by way of North Carolina.

The fact that we have not lived these events, like many of you have, makes the Scoop different. But I want to understand your mindset and your thought process, because it does aid in our reporting and what we produce for you, our dear readers. So consider this a start to a discussion. One that will give us something to do until Sunday. And one that will help us going forward.

Now, feel free to go ahead and talk amongst yourselves.

53 comments

  1. to learn how to run you must first learn how to walk, to learn how to walk you must first learn how to crawl. Right now IU is still in the crawling stage. I would hope for a spot in the big dance within the next 3 years would be nice.

  2. Great thread topic. Sure to draw some interesting comments. I for one am proud to have never witnessed the ancient “glory.” I feel like, through observation of people on this blog, attachment to those long gone times does more harm than good. You can never go back, and you can’t let the past govern the present. We were really good once, but if we are going to get back there, then we need to adjust to the realities of the now. The reality is that we have a pretty good coach, who respects those old days, but has a team to run in the present and his own philosophy about how to do that. The name of IU alone, luckily, still has enough power to draw the kind of talent that Crean could never get at Marquette on a regular basis. With these tools, and a mostly supportive fanbase, I expect that “glory” will be achieved in the form of regular top-3 finishes in the conference and consistent appearances in the Sweet 16. If these hopes play out, we are bound to make it to the occasional Final Four.

    Some may ask, “Why shouldn’t we expect more?” The answer is that whether you like it or not, we are stuck now trying to be “ethical” and recruit “good students” and the like. We have to model ourselves more after Duke than Kentucky. Not at all a bad thing, but it comes at a price.

    Mind you, I only speak for one kind of fan.

  3. It’s not going to be easy, but 20+ wins and an NCAA bid should be expected every season. Also, contend for the Big Ten title on a regular basis.

    As far as the tournament goes, it’s harder to say, mainly because it is the tournament. Sometimes you have a great team that might get bounced early and sometimes you have a decent team that might hang around (2002). I wouldn’t set a goal of X Sweet 16s or X Final 4s or whatever, but Sweet 16s should be fairly regular, with a legitimate top 5, Final Four contender at least once every five years.

    Ideally, a contender every year, but we may be getting ahead of ourselves there. Rome wasn’t built (or rebuilt?) in a day.

  4. And, yes, JPat is right. Glory=NCAA title. Those are just my thoughts of what I hope for on a long-term basis. Obviously, it ain’t easy. But, on the other hand, success breed success. One or two great teams, tourney runs, etc just brings better recruits, more positives, etc to hopefully build toward the ultimate goal of being a a perennial power.

    I don’t think people expect we’re going to win games just because we’re a tradition-rich program, nor do I think it really does any harm that fans are proud of past accomplishments.

  5. The ultimate goal is to hang NCAA banners, that should be every teams goal every season. However, that is not a return to glory. Everyone can get lucky in the tourney and make a run.

    A return to glory would be a nod to things of the past. I remember growing up listening to players and coaches from other teams talking about they rather play anywhere in the Big Ten than have to contend with Indiana at home. A return would be the announcer and press people bringing up IU putting their longest home winning streak in the nation on the line, game after game.

    A return to glory would be watching games between two of the nations top 25 ranked teams when IU plays a ranked opponent. That would mean we are back in the top 25 on a consistent basis. The return would be looking at the pre-season rankings and anything outside the top 10-12 is a slap in the face to the team and fans.

    A return is winning outright or shared regular season Big Ten titles, then not having to worry how we play in the Big Ten tourney, because it won’t have any effect on our seeding.

    A return to glory is not just making the tourney every year, but making it without question and being a legit threat to be an Elite 8 or Final Four contender.

    A return to glory isn’t just being another score on the ESPN bottom line, or a few highlights due to a highly touted player on the other team (ie. Talor Battle last night, 2 highlights in a loss to IU’s one), but that IU is looked at again as being major news outside the local or regional media. Like it was when I was a kid, visiting family in Enid Oklahoma, tell people I’m from Bloomington Indiana and they knew I was from the home of IU Basketball and Coach Bob Knight.

    A return to glory is a return to the top of the relevance list in every aspect of NCAA basketball, past, present & future.

    That is my return to glory.

  6. Having covered the Hoosiers in their glory years under Knight, it is unrealistic to expect them to win 3 national championships in a 12-year period and win Big Ten titles about every other year, given the pairity of college basketball today.
    However, I think it is realistic to compete for the Big Ten on a regular basis and make the Sweet Sixteen. All it would take is a couple of good years to get the ball rolling again, to make IU a “sexy” choice for recruits. I think Crean will be a good recruiter and ambassador for IU basketball. I would be surprised if IU wasn’t back
    among the Big Ten’s upper division in the next couple of years.

  7. Glory is that SOONER than later NCAA Championship banner will be hung inside Assembly Hall. Success, though and IU’s return to where it belongs, are the days when the candy strips step on the floor and the opponent is ready to roll over and give up, Success is when trips to Minnesota, Iowa,Wisconsin to name a few are wins just because IU made the trip. Success is, (and this is a big one), players graduating ontime and with an above avereage GPA. Success is when Coach Crean no longer has to go out and hustle kids to play here…his toughest job will be deciding how many of the all-stars he’s got beating down the door to get in, can he take. Success, will be when we as fans no longer have to be reminded everytime we see a IU game on TV, that our beloved program got guttted like a fish because of the decision a former president, athletic director and coach made to big our beloved program to it’s knees…

  8. IU should consistently be ranked in the top 5, make the NCAA tournament every year, and win a national championship twice a decade.

  9. The most imprtant return to glory would be consistent winning (20+ per season) done the right way… graduating student athletes. That’s the most important part of the equation.

    Big Ten Championships and NCAA Championships would be a full, 100% return to glory. An acceptable time-table for those will vary widely from person to person.

  10. National championships. Whether it’s every year, every decade or otherwise is less important than the fact that it happens, repeatedly, over time.

    To be sure, conference titles, tournament appearances, tournament wins and wins over rivals are all important and we expect to acheive them as often as we can, along the way. But what separates us from the many, many programs who do these things occassionally or even routinely, are those banners hanging in Assembly Hall.

  11. Well, leaving aside this very short interim rebuilding period that we all know isn’t going to be glorious, let me talk about what actually experiencing glory means to me:

    1. Elite Status in the B10. A team cannot be a perennial national contender unless it is an elite contender in its own league. I’m talking about routinely finishing in the top 3 of the league and every recruiting class winning at least one B10 regular season championship.

    However, returning to the glory days of Knight when we completely dominated the conference isn’t feasible. Back then Wisconsin was a doormat, MSU was up and down, and Northwestern didn’t have a prayer of beating anybody. OSU wasn’t as good as it is today. Its much, much harder now, but if we want to be glorious, we have to be great in conference for sure. Just don’t expect other-worldly.

    2. 25 wins per season is great. But only part of being glorious.

    3. NCAA tournament entry a given. Top 4 seed expected.

    4. These days I think getting to the Elite 8 is almost, but not quite, as glorious as going to the final 4. Since the 2000 tournament, 11 teams have reached the Elite 8 three or more times, lead by Mich State, Kansas and UNC with 5 appearances each in those 10 years. Duke “only” made 2 appearances in that time. To be as glorious as those 3 schools would be tough, but let’s shoot for it: Glory for IU equals an Elite 8 run every other year, certainly once every 3 years.

    5. Banners: If we make the Elite 8 every 2 or 3 years, then we should be winning a banner at least once every ten years.

  12. students not rushing the floor after beating Minny 🙂

    glory is National Champs

    but for now I’m looking forward to being Top 3 of Big 10 and Top 25 w/ in 2 years from right now

  13. Husky, I am proud to have lived in the old glory and I feel nothing but disdain for your post. There are plenty of us who lived the Knight years and know that the page has turned and that its time to move on. I look forward to a new era of success under Crean’s leadership: No Cheating. Graduating Kids. Winning Games. Being Respectable Citizens.

    “I only speak for one kind of fan”. Pathetic. You only speak for yourself. Get over thinking you lead anyone, anywhere.

  14. Indiana’s assets include more than just a history with the NCAA tournament and the Big Ten. Indiana high schools year in and year out produce a significant number of top basketball prospects. The Indiana high school system is, simply stated, excellent in developing young basketball talent.

    The surrounding states and the region also produce high level talent. And recruiting brings in players from outside the state and the region who are attracted by the combination.

    Because of that and because of the history of the program and the facilities and the coaching and the reputation for honesty and integrity (once that is fully restored), Indiana should be able to consistently attract top talent which should enable competition at the highest levels.

    The other factor in attracting talent these days (and it probably always has been, although not as sharply etched) seems to be a demonstrated record of developing those talents, as typically measured by eventual professional basketball success.

    How so? Well, a college becomes almost like a graduate school for basketball players – a place where young athletes can study the game and enhance their abilities leading to life success.

    Think about it. As a student in high school contemplates choosing a college, if that student has in mind a career as a professional athlete, one of their biggest concerns has to be going somewhere where the coach and staff can enhance their prospects of becoming a pro and ultimately making a lot of money and achieving fame and success in life. Tom Crean can point to success with Dwayne Wade as the ultimate in his abilities in this area.

    However, Wade is a guard. Wade’s success allows Tom Crean to recruit better, but it is more convincing as a lure for guards than big men.

    If I could pick one thing that I’d like to see happen in the next two to four years for Tom Crean (and Indiana), it would be to see Crean have success in developing NBA caliber players, but particularly big men.

    It is interesting to observe that, at least in my opinion, one of Bobby Knight’s weaknesses over time was in developing big men who went on to professional success. Other than Kent Benson, he was less successful with big men than in other aspects of player development – and I think that hindered his ability to recruit big men and ultimately to compete as a coach, particularly toward the end of his tenure as a coach.

    John Calipari’s lure at this point, is precisely that. He can fairly say that he has coached folks who made it in the pros. He is able to recruit both big men and guards because both view him as able to enhance their success.

    The catch is that he has done so with some repeated and disturbing associated issues about ethics, which may catch up to him. As a human, I hope they don’t, but as an Indiana fan, I hope they do!

    In the ideal world for Indiana hoops, Tom Crean will develop the reputation as the John Calipari of college hoops — plus integrity. The hope is that he can pitch himself to recruits as the guy who will develop you into a high level pro without the baggage that Calipari brings.

    That is where those of us who are hoping for Tom Crean’s success (and that of Indiana) should be hoping he gets to that.

    And that would ultimately lead to the consistent success in the Big Ten and the NCAA that Indiana fans hope for.

    It is a competitive world and it is hard to stay at the pinnacle, but I think it can be done and I think Tom Crean has a chance at it.

    If I were Tom Crean, I would see the next few years as critical to my long term success. I would be bending all of my formidable energies into getting and developing a big man into a pro at the level of Dwayne Wade. There is the challenge.

  15. A return to glory. It’s essential that we remember that we are returning to glory and have a precedence for this. We never were a team to win championships back-to-back. We win a championship every 10 years or so. Currently that cycle has been stretched a bit. But for my likings, glory is a team in which I can take pride. I had pride in 2002 for that team because of the heart displayed and basketball they played.

    I want a team to play good solid basketball. That doesn’t mean that they must play a certain style, but it does mean they don’t look like 5 Starburys out there. The most important factor in all this to me is fear. I want teams to FEAR playing Indiana. They must respect us. They want to be like us. When we begin to play Indiana basketball, teams will always have that doubt in the back of their mind.

    A return to glory to me does not mean finishing in the top 10 of every poll every year with at least 40 percent of those years we were in the top 3. Also we must have the best recruiting class in the Big Ten. Oh and we should have at least 2 All-Americans per decade unless there are 3 leap years in that decade. Numbers are not an absolute measure of success.

    When we think, act, and play like Indiana Basketball, we will return to glory.

  16. Nice try, Scoop. We are in glory. Even our beloved new coach understands the holy ground he stands upon. If he fails to bring us one championship banner in ten years, he has won me over for that simple reason. He honestly understands there is no better place in the world to coach the game of basketball. Every young man he brings into our program will share the same mystical pride and energy no other program has been able to emulate. They come from all over the nation to try to bottle it and explain it. Nice try, Scoop.

  17. The mindset Hugh is this. To be so absorbed into achieving excellence, so focused in preparing for it, and so sure that you have to achieve it that other people’s perceptions about you as a person (strictly as a person) become entirely completely irrelevant. Crean sounds a bit insincere in what he says. He twitters about irrelevant things, signs a huge, huge contract giving lip service (“Because it’s Indiana”) but then starts whining retroactively (“I guess I didn’t know how screwed the whole thing was…”) Such a man appears to care more about himself than about the team, but the bottom line is: if his team wins games I couldn’t care less.

    Return to glory is: a banner every 7 years — with the sixth banner due in 2015.

  18. WestCoast Hoosier, enjoyed your post and I agree. I also enjoyed some of Husky and Wisco as well as Mike P and GFDave to name a few. I agree that I want to be consistent and in top 25 every year but top 10 sounds better and I want the Big 10 titles as well but to hang another National Champ banner would make me cry…good tears! Yes, a true return to glory is winning it all. I hope Crean is able to do that while he is here, that is what I expect with his long term contract and the money he is making. I don’t think that is too much to ask or unrealistic at all.

  19. GFDave-

    You are obviously alone in your thin-skinnedness, and only selectively read what I post.

    I think most of us have similar visions for the future, and it is probably safe to say that we want to be even better than our legacy. Past is prologue to an even more dominant, consistent program.

  20. In terms of IU, ‘glory’ seems to be measured by what kind of banner you can hang in the Hall. If you’re looking at a 10 year period, I think a hardened, long time IU fan would want…

    10 NCAA tournament appearances
    5 Sweet Sixteen appearances
    3 Final Fours
    1 Championship
    3 Big Ten regular season or tournament championships
    5 All Big 10 players
    2 Big 10 Player of the Year winners
    2 consensus all-americans

    That’s ‘glory’ — not mere success. That seems to be what the North Carolinas, Kentuckys, Kansas and UConns of the world can acheive.

    I do wonder if younger fans will have as high of expectations. The average IU senior was born a few months after the 1987 championship. To the current student body, an IU national championship was something that happened before they were even born.

  21. I would give the team a few more seasons, so in 2012 and after I would hope for the following:

    Annually:
    20+ win seasons
    Top 4 Big Ten Finish
    NCAA Tournament appearance and 2nd round qualifier

    Every two years:
    All the above, NCAA Tournament appearance and Sweet 16 qualifier

    Every four years:
    25+ win season
    Big Ten Championship
    NCAA Tournament appearance and Great 8 qualifier

    Every six years:
    25+ win season
    Big Ten Championship
    NCAA Tournament appearance and Final 4 qualifier

    Every 12 years:
    National Championship

    It’s just too hard to get there these days folks. But I do believe Crean will win one in the next 10 years.

  22. While I may take a more diplomatic approach, I agree with GFDave in that it does no harm for those of us who enjoyed those years to remember them fondly. Now, if Tom Crean holds a video session the day before our next game watching 3 hours of Calbert Cheaney highlights, then we might have a problem. But, we’re fans, it doesn’t matter what we’re thinking about or jabbering about online.

    That said, I generally agree with most of the rest of your post.

  23. To me a return to glory includes all of the following:

    – annually competing for the Big Ten Championship
    – a lock for the NCAA tournament every year
    – recruiting the best in-state talent every year
    – achieving academic success every year
    – absolutely zero NCAA violations
    – and a sixth NCAA championship banner

  24. Great question. Glory, and what is glory to me. I am 35 years old. My father loved Bob Knight and from my earliest memories it was always Indiana all day long. We may never return to the “glory days” of old, times change and I think the fans need to change with them. Look at UCLA, once one of the most dominant college teams for a decade or better, now struggling to get respect??

    I dont know if IU will ever be as dominant as they once were, for one the competition these days has changed. Players are better and a lot of these smaller university that carry junior and senior players are just as good as a lot of these supposed powerhouse teams.

    If IU could consistently win, 20+ games a season. As an earlier post said, an automatic bid to the dance every year. Every 5 to 6 years make a deep run and maybe have a chance to win one. To me it all starts with the Big 10 though, IU must regain its dominance just as Michigan State seems to have over the past 10 years or so. Then whatever happens, happens but they have to start winning Big 10 championships. I guess that would be GLORY!!!

    College basketball has changed, and these IU fans that don’t like change and don’t like the way it looks inside Assembly Hall, don’t like Crean, don’t like our style are going to get passed by like a big ole’ oak tree stuck into the ground. The way kids play has changed, the way coaches coach has changed, the way they wear their ultra long shorts has changed. I guess that why I have so much respect for Coach K and Coach Izzo (even though I hate both of em) cause they seem to recruit, coach, and ultimately win.

    I do feel that IU will be there soon. I feel Coach Crean is the right guy for the job. His excitement is contagious and his motor runs 24/7. Anyone else at this point would probably have taken short cuts to get the quick fix (HUM, Calvin Samson?) This is probably the most excited I’ve been to be an IU Fan in some time. Honestly I don’t think it can be any worse, I mean IU has been mediocre for the past 15 years anyway. Its crazy to think we have went through Knight, Davis, Sampson, Coach D, and now Crean all within a relatively short time. Just having a coach here for a solid five years would be nice, so bring the love, bring the faith and Crean just might bring the GLORY!!!

  25. Win the Big 10 for momentum. Then dance to the music at each stop of the NCAA. A little luck helps after the first round.

  26. I would like to see IU become what MSU has been under Izzo. Solid performances in the Big 10 and regular trips deep into the tournament. I think Izzo was someone that gave positive recommendations regarding Coach TC. MSU has great fans and is respected around the country. Their kids do not get into trouble very often and seem to be good kids. Teams going into East Lansing know they will likely leave with a loss. The home court is not something they give up often.

  27. Indiana still has all of the resources to rejoin the likes of UNC, Duke, MSU, and UK as one of the premier programs in the NCAA. Crean is right about closing down the borders on in-state recruits, which has to be a priority given the high level of bball talent produced in Indiana. Many of these high schoolers will be more disposed to the lure of IU’s basketball legacy. Tap into that wellspring (starting in the loaded 2011 class by landing at least one of the youngest Zeller, Teague, the James kid from Muncie, among others) and we can go a long way.

    In several conversations I’ve had in the Crean era, I’ve said that a realistic expectation for IU is a return to the NCAA tournament the season AFTER next. Next season would be great, but I don’t think it will happen; the Big Ten is too strong and our players still too young. But if we aren’t dancing in March 2012, then the Crean Dissidents will finally have something legitimate to gripe about. I think, however, we are on the right track and that Crean will meet and possibly exceed my expectations.

    After that, no Hoosier fan should set his sights lower than the absolute ceiling (see Sam’s post for what that ceiling is). Yes, our squeaky clean MO will be a decided disadvantage against the likes of Calipari, but shouldn’t we be excited at the prospect of meeting that challenge? We will celebrate when Calipari’s underhanded deals with the General Studies Dept. Head in Lexington surface and all of Kentucky’s achievements are rescinded by the NCAA.

    College bball has changed, but our program is in good hands, and we will adapt with the times. But tradition is still a priceless commodity in college athletics, and no program in any sport has as great a legacy as Indiana University basketball. .

  28. Glory is winning basketball games consistently. When we do this, championships will take care of themselves. Glory would be Crean fielding winning college basketball teams through having good teams. I don’t care how many of our players go to the pros after college. Crean’s job is to win basketball games at IU and trying to have the best college basketball team on the floor for every game. That being said, I go back to just saying winning games consistently and that will lead us to the championships. Go IU.

  29. Who wins championships back-to-back? We probably would have won in 75 if Scott May hadn’t broken his arm. (But what use is “probably”?)

    For me, glory days means it’s a given we surviving the first weekend of the dance. It is easy to talk about 3 championships in twelve years, but that’s cherry picking the years. Bobby was here a lot longer. Is it 0 championships in the last 13 years? (or was it 12?). At the end of Bobby’s reign, I’d get sick when we’d be bounced out in the first game by the likes of Pepperdine, etc.

    As far as Calipari goes, I think it is dangerous to overrate his “preparation for the NBA”. If it weren’t for the one-and-done rule, how many of his recruits would have never stepped foot on a campus? I think his success may have more to do with a certain WWW and a cynical use of rules.

    Crean might be onto something getting a group of 4 stars and molding them into a TEAM. It’s just unfortunate we have to wait.

  30. Fear in every opponent on the schedule, every year… that is Glory! Fear that a Sophmore Selby, Junior Creek, Hulls, Watford, and Senior Jones III brings.

    Not fear from losing to a lesser program, but fear of getting crushed by the best team in the nation. Fear = Glory.

  31. Return to “Glory” will mean not having to always revert to IU’s storied past and fondly remembering the “Good Ol’ Days” but rather truly enjoying the product on the court at present. “Glory” is not constantly looking back on championships that IU has won, but instead valuing the opportunities of winning championships with whatever current team is in place. Once we get to that place, IU basketball will have succeeded.

  32. Glory Never Lost

    Glory is what I see?
    The captured summers of youth eternal?
    The flowering bud drinking the sun?
    The showing off of bountiful green leaves?
    The height she grows I ascend with her?
    The breadth of determined growth and the rings of dominance made wide and sturdy?
    Now she stands in dormant state or struggles I believe her final winter
    Shall I forget the wondrous lofty swing provided her limbs?
    Do I forget the days I flew off my seat and sailed on momentum through fearless air?
    Do I forget how boundless memories danced and played in leisurely naps when stealing the years of her cool shade?
    She’s always been glory from root to sky
    And if forbid only dandelions grow where her roots once dug deep,
    The glory never lost, though my eyes can’t keep.

  33. Glory metrics, eh? Glory at IU is measured in banners: NCAA & Big 10. Period. End of discussion.

    Well, not quite the end. These banners must also be accompanied by nationally reknown graduation rates, unblemished compliance records, and an otherwise irreproachable character of the program.

    Impossible? Possibly. But that is the measure by which any return to glory at IU shall forever be measured. After all, “it’s Indiana.”

    Me, I’d settle for regular conference contention & national relevance within in the next 2-3 years. Beating Purdue and Kentucky more often than they beat us would also be great. Drubbing Illinois at every encounter would also work.

    At this moment, however, I’d be thrilled with at least 2 wins after Iowa & strong showings during the brutal stretch that is the remaining portion of our schedule.

    A commitment from a 5-star recruit in the coming seasons would also bring a smile to my face.

    Most simply put, I’m just looking forward to the day when IU plays consistently competative ball again. I’m tired of the “moral victories” and the reality of our epic ressurection.

    I want my Hoosiers back. I want to be in the hunt the last week of the conference schedule. I want to dance in March. I want to fill out my bracket and not only see IU in it, but be able to rationalize IU’s next run to finals as I pen IU in as national champs. I want to erase the word infractions from my vocabulary, except when used in conjunction with the word “Kentucky.”

    These things, for me, would be glorious.

  34. What a great question- and a lot of good answers. I was a freshman at IU in 1973 and was there for 4 straight Big 10 championships and the natl championship in 1976. Check out IU’s records for the years preceeding 1972. Now THAT was a return to glory!

    I am also a big Butler fan. The Dawgs are at a great place in their history right now-good kids and good students (mostly from Indiana with some great adds from elsewhere) who EXPECT to win their league, win every home game, beat some really good non-conference opponents, and then go to the NCAA and make some noise. THAT’S what I expect from our Hoosiers-with a legitimate chance to win the natl championship every decade.

  35. Great post. I am actually writing a book titled “Return to Glory”. The release date will be immediately following the Hoosiers 6th national title, which I hope occurs some time during the current Tom Crean contract.

  36. Great, great comments – where have all these rational, level-headed fans been of late? Having positive memories of the past is one thing; demanding that the present model itself after the past is just plain backwards. My top-5 highlights of this thread so far:

    1) WestCoastHoosier
    2) RealHoosierFan
    3) hgdownunder
    4) Diet Sprite Zero
    5) Chronic Hoosier

    Bottom-2 worst posts on this thread:

    1) GF Dave
    2) tdw

  37. The time has come.
    Millport shall be happy. Korman can stop ignoring. Husky can quit suggesting I am a drunken fool. I am rarely drunk, but most often still the fool..My love for Indiana basketball is slipping away and nothing seems to reignite the joy. When I read the above posts, it hits me like ton of bricks. I’m exhausted…I’m sick of putting insincere words of crap in little boxes..The young kids that wear the cream and crimson and the true Hoosier faithful deserve better…The Scoop deserves better…It is time to be set free of all negative energy I inject upon this blog site..I don’t want to any longer play part in destroying hearts of young kids giving their all for a team I once so dearly attached my heart to. I apologize for subjecting all of you to such confused and immature deceptions.

    Downing’s 5th

  38. Downing-

    You couldn’t have picked a better time for your resignation. I am joining you.

    The Scoop community will be relieved.

  39. Yes, Coach Knight led us to 3 titles but, not to forget, Branch McCracken led us to 2 more. That’s as many as Dean Smith had. Sorry, had to get that off my chest.
    An NCAA bid every year. Always. I can live with a banner a decade, but we’re overdue. Final Four 2-3 more times. Top 3 in the Big Ten every year. Unbeatable at home. Teams need to look upon a visit to Assemble Hall with a mixture of excitement and dread.
    I know the glory. I was a freshman in 1974. Those were glorious days.

  40. A return to glory is basically what Mich State does. Win a few B10 championships every 10 years, NCAA championship every 10 years, a couple final fours etc.

  41. ‘Glory’, good question: each year 20+ wins, in the Big 10 Championship picture with 4 games to go, NCAA Tourney berth, realistically thinking Sweet 16, every 4 years having a national championship caliber team, good kids, 4-year guys who really learn how to contribute in their junior and senior years, 1 and 2 year guys who can dazzle you, that sounds about right to me. But look at our conference: Mich ST is not going to slip down from the top; Wisc will never lose at home, Motta recruits like Callapari, Purdue is back, Minn now has a great coach and is a very tough away game, the great WHINNER at IL is tough to beat, the national media loves the Mich style which is unique, now Northwestern has a coach AND players, Iowa used to be good and is just one hire and one recruiting class from it again, and Penn State is a football school with money to spend. The road is tough. Is Crean a coaching legend in the making? That’s why he came to IU, he thinks he is! I like his chances!

  42. Chet and Cooper: we are in alignment. And I know it goes without saying (which is why I didn’t say it the first time): No cheating. Graduate kids. The foundational elements of glory at IU.

    Crean certainly is setting the foundation with the kids he is bring in and the work they are doing in school. All the current kids and the ones that have committed are what I think we want in terms of character, personality, and intellect. IMO.

  43. Right Dave, do we really need to point out we don’t want any cheating or would like to graduate most of the players and have those that don’t graduate be because they go pro early?

    I really don’t understand why a team is penalized for graduation rate. A team should only be penalized if its because a player doesnt graduate in 4 years.

    There are plenty of “regular” students who drop out after 1 year or 1 semester.

    You go to school to make money if a kid leaves early and makes millions in the NBA, should the school really be penalized? Especially, with the rule forcing a kid to go to school for a year. What is a coach supposed to do, not take the kid because he is too good? Its stupid

  44. Cooper: Exactly. The NBA should drop its age requirement so that these players can go straight to the pros. Its not the kids’ fault that this charade goes on. At first I thought it was a good idea, but, like so many of these rules which are passed with good intentions, it just isn’t working out as planned. The kids are not benefiting from the college experience, the programs are taking APR hits, and the NBA isn’t getting better players (although the NBA is getting more publicized players).

  45. Just got done reading about the player woes that Minnesota is dealing with. While I though he was probably the classiest act that Kentucky ever had, isn’t it interesting that a former KY coach would bring in players that he can’t keep eligible. Of course, passing classes at Minnesota is a tad different than passing classes at Kaintuck, what with havin’ ta read un all.

  46. …and the ‘one and done’ rule the NBA put in was for one purpose only. It was put in to better evaluate players for their draft status against better competition than high school can provide.

  47. Totally agree with Cooper, GFDave and Chet the one and done rule should be done and over with. The only one really getting something out of that rule is the NBA. If this rule does not change it will be interesting to see if more kids try the one or two years overseas route. Jeremy Gray on the OSR had a good suggestion the other day in that maybe they should try how they do it in baseball. A kid can go right to the pros straight out of high school if he wants but if he takes the college route he must stay until after his junior year. If memory serves me right that was how he explained it anyway. At least it would be trying to have a rule that works better than the one and done.

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