38 comments

  1. Thanks for the good job this season, guys.

    Before the season began everyone knew this team would be improved, but no one knew to what degree.

    One of the most frequently tossed-about numbers, in fact, as “10.” 10 wins seemed like modest but realistic estimate for many; I myself thought 12 was more likely, but then again, who knew that Creek would go down early.

    In the end, 10 is exactly where we stand. The only surprise is how we got those wins; I never would have expected Pittsburgh and Minnesota rather than George Mason and B.U.

    Looking back at the season, frustrations aside, we are right on track. I am pumped for an above-.500 season next year. I can’t wait to kiss these whiners goodbye for a while on the blogs; sooner than later it will be time for pigskins, where we can take our frustrations out on a truly awful coach.

  2. Great stuff with the pic! I still am trying to figure out we he felt compelled to allow Dumes to throw the game(literally the one pass was seven rows in the stands) I hope that TC felt some small debt of gratitude and doesn’t think he was actually going to help them win.

    Next season we should be a .500 team which will be a huge upgrade. Creek’s assertion that they will all be back makes me feel good.

    Time to defend the rock! Yeah right.

  3. It is so satisfying to know I will never again have to watch Dumes ruining the game of basketball.

  4. Korman-
    With regard to your tweets from yesterday… Creek has stated publicly he expects everyone to return, Watford has made it clear he wants to return, and I’ve read rumors where Elston is saying the same… What is your take on Crean’s statement that a balance between classes needs to be found? Do you have any insight on how it may play out?

    Not sure I want to open up this can’o’worms but you know it’s going to come up eventually.. Just thought I’d ask a professional first.

  5. No bracket to pencil in our Hoosiers this month of March, but maybe still one shining moment for a true IU hoops fan to silently cheer, the madness of 4guards retreat to his basket until next year.

  6. HoosEyes,

    Good question, I’m curious to see Korman’s take on this too. From what I’ve seen this year, wouldn’t be surprised if Tom Pritchard transfered. He really never seemed to get it going this year. Started out slow, then was in the Crean doghouse. Got to the point where he was the first player Crean called out and openly discussed with the media. Some coaches do that as a tactic to motivate a player. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn’t. From what I saw, I don’t think Pritch really took to Crean’s strategy that well. It seemed to put him even more on edge.

    Pritchard’s body language this last month on the court and on the bench indicated to me that he didn’t want to be here. Plus if IU adds another PF for this incoming freshman class, that could take away more of his playing time.

    We will see. Again as Korman pointed out, a player has to take some time, step away from the situation, and fully assess their future with the program. Each player most likely has a one on one meeting with the coaches at some point. It will be interesting to see if Crean and Pritch are on the same page.

    Really when Pritchard was recruited by Sampson he was to be a role player. But with all that went down with the complete dismantling of the program he was thrust into a starting role as a freshman.

    It’s funny, now that Pritchard is going to be a junior he most likely will be forced to revert back to a role player. Usually it’s the other way around as a player matures. We’ll have to see if that is weighing on Pritchard’s mind. Will he be okay with taking a reduced role?

    Later,
    PB

  7. Chill- Nice one. As usual, though, the joke (on him) flies above 4tards’s head. Ignorance is bliss.

    The season is over now, meaning that we can now get back to the “real” world of blogging, i.e., the world where traces and specters of Husky and Downing dart in and out of ephemeral conversations about the future… where spring breezes blow out the foul, 4tard air, and usher in hot summers followed by strong autumnal gusts…

  8. IU will be ok next year, we did better this year anyway. If Creek and Roth had played, we would’ve won3/4 more games. With a few good kids coming next year, with this years team/we’ll do just fine.Coach Crean came in here with nothing, hes building his team, so lets give awhile. Go IU!

  9. PB-

    Wondering about Pritch myself, along with Bawa and possibly Roth… Not that I think all of them would go, but they would be the likely candidates. Not sure how well Crean’s take on it sits with me (obviously you don’t want to start a trend of forcing people out), but I do understand the need for balance. In any case, I think if Wat, DE and Creek (those three kind of remind me of a better version of Moore, Hummel and Johnson) along with Jordy and VJIII stick around its a good nucleus of guys that all have potential to be the one that steps up when we need a big stop or bucket, rather than just role players.

    Agreed that it will take some time, however… The worst thing for this situation would be to make a decision based on the immediate emotions looking back on this season is sure to bring. For now, no news is good news, but from a fan’s perspective it would be nice not to have to sit and wonder.

  10. 4guards, we all know that you are a fact free zone, but please tell us what his transfer rate is compared to the rest of NCAA D1. Use real data. Find it for yourself. Make your case or stop with what for now are unproven allegations.

  11. GFDave,

    Did some research on Crean’s transfers while he was at Marquette a few weeks ago. It was a bit interesting.

    Transfers School Year
    Krunti Hester Lamar University 2000
    Odartey Blankson UNLV 2002
    Ron Howard Valpo 2002
    Kevin Menard Carthage College (DIII) 2002
    Karon Bradley Wichita State 2004
    Brandon Bell Detroit Mercy 2004
    Carlton Christian Unknown 2004
    Andy Freund UW- Whitewater 2004
    James Matthews Iowa State 2004
    Dameon Mason LSU 2005
    Ryan Amoroso San Diego State 2006
    Matt Mortensen Kicked off team 2006
    Anthony Green Academically ineligble 2007

  12. Sorry, got cut off there on my post. Really weird to see 6 transfers in the 04-05 stretch. Now do I think that will happen with IU? Probably not. AND we can’t afford anything like that.

    PB

  13. PB,

    Works out to be a little more than 1 per year if you consider the last two players eliminated themselves. In nine seasons I don’t see that as eye opening. 2002 and 2004 would probably feed some Crean haters for sure.

  14. The ones that didn’t transfer from Marquette seemed to work out pretty well, including this current team, which just beat Villanova in the Big East tourney. Hayward, Cubillan, Butler – all Crean recruits.

  15. From 2002-2007 he lost 12 guys.
    From 2002-2007 he had 25 commits.
    Does this seem like a problem?

  16. Hoosier Clarion,

    Yeah, I agree almost 1 per a year is not that big of a deal. Crean’s also probably not going to ever have a 2004-2005 max exodus thing again. You have to figure he’s applied lessons learned going forward to his future recruiting efforts.

    Being from the Chicago area I never really understood the whole Dameon Mason (West Aurora product) transfer. He had a great first two years with the Golden Eagles, averaged 30 min per game and was on the verge of blowing up his Junior year. Some saw him as the next Dwayne Wade. After he went to LSU he didn’t really amount to much of anything but a role player.

    It would be like Watford transferring after two solid years at IU. Weird.

    Anyway, take it easy,
    PB

  17. It was 10 transferring from MU, 2 eliminated themselves. No I don’t see a problem unless you are a Crean hater. There is no reason to be disingenuous with the facts.

  18. Man, what a short memory. Knight had starters transferring. Go down the bench a little and his retention rate was unbelievably low. Everybody has transfers. If you’re losing 1 or 2 a year nothing is out of line.

  19. If over a span of 5-6 years , you are losing nearly half of all your recruits , something is wrong.

  20. More disingenuous BS from a Crean hater. For every one player that transferred one commit was being added. There is nothing wrong. As evidenced by building a successful program such as Coach Crean did at MU. He turned it around successfully, which you refuse to recognize because of your hatred. Yet you profess the same kind of success for the Diviner of Albuquerque, strange. Your hatred toward Coach Crean is an enigma. That is why nobody wants to piss with you on here.

    By the way how did things work out for the Diviner last night in Las Vegas. Beat by Steve Fisher. How could that happen, did the Diviner get out coached? Beat by Steve Fisher! You got to be kidding me. Beat by Steve Fisher! Another coach who declared the B10 was to tough then goes looking for the underachieving glory of the MW. Hell who knows that conference might become relevant to basketball someday by adding ten or twelve more ex-B10 coaches.

  21. Clarion-

    Sweet words there. I concur completely.

    On a sadder note, it’s a shame that you can be so rational and cogent during basketball season, yet you lose it all when football season starts (when winning 3, 1, and 1 Big Ten football games in consecutive seasons becomes “improvement” in your eyes).

    Oh well, I guess I will take the Good Clarion with the Bad Clarion.

  22. Horse Bite,

    I do like that choice for a name. The hole the BB program is crawling out of is obviously deep. The hole the FB program is crawling out of is just as deep (even w/o sanctions) but decades wider because it was never given much accentuation to be long term successful. Remember we have been a BB school. Over many decades swimming, soccer, diving, golf and baseball were given nearly as much attention (non-financial) by past AD’s and their departments as FB. If the emphasis was not projected to make maximum revenue the major goal for the FB program then neither is there emphasis on the W/L record. AD Ralph Floyd who managed the dept. successfully let RMK run the BB program and as AD did everything in his power to keep BB in the limelight. RMK did a better job of promoting his program for resources than the other coaches during his tenure. But the crown jewel for collegiate sports is FB in terms of revenue. Only after RMK’s termination, BB at IU then fell backward under Davis and then the arrival of Greenspan did the revenue from that crown jewel came into focus. Regardless of what opinion people hold of RG, he made us all think more about the FB program becoming successful. In my long history as an IU fan he is the first AD to begin developing a vision for IU FB.

    AD Glass with his energy is the right man to wear all the hats for the sporting programs. He will tweak, magnify and update that vision. He is going to keep FB in the limelight as Ralph Floyd always did for BB. He is a better marketer and promoter (yes to some that means vaseline salesman) than any AD before him. He understands where revenue comes from and knows how to grow it.

    Now for my misplacement of rational and cogent thinking during FB season. Yes I do try to enjoy the games using a non-critical, but unbiased eye. I know who each competitor is, the scores and who the W/L’s were with.

    The last three years IU has secured the LOI’s of 49 commits who are rated 3* (or better). The three classes previous to that had a total of 14 commits who were 3* (or better). A positive trend. Our most recent class earns us a national recruiting ranking of 56 depending on what service you read. Compare that to our past classes national rankings and we historically have been in the 80’S, 90’s and yes even over a 100 several times. Now digesting all this improvement in recruiting to on the field performance certainly makes us want to put Coach Lynch on a slippery slope. But if we look at our recruiting ranking in the B10 our most recent class is still rated 9th, 10th or 11th depending what expert you choose to believe. Hence our conference W/L records. We have barely scratched the surface compared to the top half of the conference in terms of talent. The improvements in performance on the field are baby steps consisting of fewer blowouts, threatening an upset, more individual playmakers, playing better on the road, gaining scoring leads and having more options at skill positions will continue but will not bring about more wins until we get more/ better talent and raise our selves above our B10 basement position. I have no reason to believe BL will not continue to elevate the recruiting talent and more of it in the future because the past 3 recruiting classes trend that way. If the most recent class would have been all 3* recruits and no lower we would most likely be rated in 7th place (B10). That is not a stretch, we are getting closer to that. That is also why we are getting closer in the scoring of the games we lose and we rightfully critique for not winning. We care (or cuss more) more because our improvement warrants it. Hoeppner started this direction change to improvement. At that time I would have bet a lot of money it was going to be 6 or 7 year project because of the width of the hole left by the lack of emphasis of past AD’s. Maybe with the chemistry that could have developed between AD Glass and Coach Hoeppner that project could have been shortened a year or two. What I have lead up to is if we all realize the BB program is a 3 or 4 year overhaul then it is conceivable the FB program is going to take longer. I think we are still two years away from consistently achieving over .500.

  23. Clarion- For someone who doesn’t like to read novels, you’ve shown you know how to write them.

    That said, I appreciate the thoughtful comments, and believe it or not, I read the whole thing. I fear, however, that in your analysis of “progress,” you are overstating recruiting and underplaying the coaching. You make some great points about the 3 star players, and this is certainly a significant development.

    However, the fact is that as a low-end Big 10 school, we are still producing NFL caliber talent every year, which includes the likes of Super Bowl heroes (Porter) and first round draft picks (Saffold and Hardy). Illinois is a bad program like ours, yet in the last few years, they somehow found a way to go to a Rose Bowl and beat OSU on the road. Kansas, Kentucky, Cincinnati, UNC, UConn, Wake Forest – these are all basketball-focused schools with arguably the same talent void as us, yet they are able to patch together nice bowl bids every now and then.

    To me, what all this means is that IU, even if it is making baby steps, certainly could be doing a better job. For example, there is NO excuse in the world for the team getting man-handled by a historically poor Purdue team to close out 2 straight seasons.

    I’ll leave you with a glass half empty/full analogy. There are two ways you can see our coach. There is Ball State Bill, and there is Small Indiana College Bill. If you see the Ball State Bill, you are wondering how a Big 10 school could ever think so lowly of itself to hire a fired MAC coach. If you see the other Bill, you see a guy who was able to do some nice things at a lower level of the game, which eventually will translate into success on a bigger stage. As of the moment, I see more of the former. This year, however, could tip the scale towards Depauw Bill.

  24. Nice to see Husky dipping his pen into endless inkwell again. We barely put the Igor Crean’s Abby Normal basketball season to rest and he’s ready to dig up parts to piece together a Hoosier football monster. It’s alive!

    Go get ’em, Horse Bite!

  25. The demise of Illinois after the RB year shows the chemistry of coaching is more than recruiting. Zook is only a recruiter . I have not checked but I will bet since then their recruiting rank has slackened because of their coaching results. Our positive is as you touched on is recruiting is definitely picked up. I like our point in time vs. the team to the west. There is no doubt we will put more names in the NFL to go with ones you mentioned. But beyond that goal our priority is what BL is exercising with emphasis. Redshirting young players to insure depth for the future. The better the quality entwined with quantity of recruiting ensures competition for depth. I remember Cameron saying soon after he took over he was amazed at the amount of scholarships left unfilled (which is a testament to Mallory’s hands on quality coaching what he had) each year. We are just now over the last two years able to recruit enough mid level rated talent each year to be able to redshirt talent the following year. George Allen’s “the future is now” has been transforming over and over for decades.

    Now as far as novels go I hope you don’t figure my post a fictional, as I damn sure don’t. Glad you are back. Nuff said.

  26. Clarion- Thanks for the welcoming words. Again, some good points.

    Let me conclude by asking you this question, though:
    Would it be fair to say, in your eyes, that the team needs to win more than one Big 10 game this year for you to consider them “improved”? Will simply keeping games close or getting big leads before blowing them be accepted again this year as progress?

    A simple “yes” from you here will put us on the same football page for the first time in history.

  27. The “11” season is the one I believe brings the first year of what most of you could agree to call progress. This 2010 season I think progress means IU dominating the OOC competitors at the least. Sorry about denying the yes or no proposition. The bulk of those 49 3* players don’t kick in till this year and next. But your probing the right area because we will find out about coaching and securing even better talent over the next two seasons.

  28. The problem is, next year (’11) you lose Chappell and are starting the process of developing a new QB. So that could provide a whole new ‘let’s give it a few more years’ mentality. And then my that point you’ve lost Willis, Belcher, and Doss. Where does it end? At some point, Lynch has to win with the guys that are on the field, and not keep deferring towards a future time.

  29. It is not the end. It is the beginning. The young QB’s behind Ben hold equal passing talent, were ranked higher (better recruits) and they all have the faster feet needed(which enhances the Pistol)that Ben does not possess. From the 49 3*’s we are reloading with better depth developed through redshirting at most skill positions.
    I read the other day the only B10 team with fewer 3*’s on their roster than IU was the Bucks. It made me blink because I quickly got a true picture of the talent contrast between the leader’s winning tradition and IU’s history. We are still in the basement of B10 talent which does not bode well for making a difference in the conference W/L record although we scared two or three last year with our basement talent. That has to be a sign of progress since it has very seldom happened in the past. Still a lot more work to be done. Elevate the recruiting, continue redshirting and utilizing JUCO’s are positive progress with the off field plan. We have to hook a couple of 4* soon. We got close with one “10” 4*. Elevate the recruiting and we will have more success in the conference.
    By the way doesn’t Willis have three years eligibility left, 10-11-12?

Comments are closed.