1. Aww, shucks, Dustin! Don’t go and publish something that could be interpreted as positive for IU basketball and Tom Crean!

    You will make 4tards mad!

  2. He’ll put down the controller and write something in a minute. He can’t stop right now because he’s almost got a new high score.

  3. Good one, Chet. I was going to say it might be longer, because his mom just called him up for dinner.

  4. Big oladipo fan and think he will do a lot but washington post all met rankings mean little. They are extremely political and based a lot on where you are going to school, not your numbers or year you had

  5. Well, there were 2 guys on that list going to Duke, 1 going to UNC, and another to Georgetown…seems like good company for Vic.

  6. Oladipo is crazy athletic…if he can develop a consistant mid-range jump shot he’ll be hard to stop while opening up myriad 3-pt shot opportunities.

  7. Looking forward to watching Victor for the next 4 years. I believe he is a diamond in the rough! Another Wilkerson but he has a jump shot! Thanks for coming to Bloomington!

  8. Hammer,
    He has a jump shot? Wow, you must be thinking of somebody else. He seems like a good kid and is a great athlete, but he sure doesn’t have a jump shot.

  9. If you look at the way Pritchard, Watford, and Elston “attacked” the rim this year, I’ll surely be glad to have someone who can finish strong and isn’t afraid to throw down some dunks.

  10. I love the recruiting side of CBB, but never get excited about the players until they get to campus and don the IU jersey. I think the important key to how well the team plays next year, will be the improvement of the guys that played last year.
    In a unrelated note: Dan Dakich has become very sour on IU lately. I’m not sure if it is the criticism of being an IU homer, or he is mad about not being offered the job a few years back.

  11. Sure, continue to find things to attack Oladipo about. I guess the DC region is full of scrubs and making 1st team means nothing. He’s such a terrible player and what was Crean thinking. And it goes on and on.

  12. I can’t stand Dan Jockich. Of course he’s pissed about not getting the job a few years ago.

    But why should he be? With his head coaching record, he is the basketball equivalent of Bill Lynch; maybe even worse. IU may be old fashioned, but they aren’t so much so that they would give a job to a bitter and unsuccessful guy like Jockich just because he’s an alum.

    By the way, several people have been hard on Crean for laying down the law so strictly and Creaning house when he arrived. But let’s remember, it was Crackich who set the tone for that kind of stuff as soon as he took the helm. Boy, the Sampson kids really hated him and didn’t respect him for an instant.

  13. Despite his alleged lack of a mid-range shot, Oladipo’s value will likely shine through in his ability to make cuts to the basket and dish out to players who DO have well developed shots.

    I’m all for bringing on someone who’s intelligent and athletic. We’re still lacking in that department on many fronts.

  14. I’m sure Oladipo will be fine, he has to be reasonably good to have made this all-star team. Metro D.C. has to have some good players.

    But my bigger question is what chance IU has to get this Quinn Cook. He’s the POY as a junior, the only junior on the first team. If he’s getting that award over several seniors who are going to major programs, surely he’s a coveted recruit. I’d welcome any news anybody has on that.

  15. Doc, agreed about Dakich. Funny that Oladipo’s shot worries people. You know he has a better shot than Rivers and has better form. Give it a break. He wants to be at IU!!!

  16. Dakich set the tone, but Crean made it biblical. Remember the “New Generation” huddled-up and reaching for the divine light above? Dakich disciplined them. Crean crucified them.

  17. The question to ask there, Terry, is whether you can crucify someone who is already nailed to the cross. The kids were nailed by Crackitch; Crean simply left them up there (and maybe threw a few stones at them).

  18. There were only 2 kids Dakich dismissed. (Bassett and Ellis). They filed an appeal which was upheld by Crean. The rest of the team got house creaned.

  19. When Coach Crean got to IU and and saw first hand how Kelvin Sanctions let the players rule the culture of the program it became necessary and correct to support the actions taken by Dakich.

  20. You’re rewriting history to make a future bed more tolerable to rest in. I think most those kids hated the fact they had just lost a coach they had bonded to for the last couple years. Is that so difficult to imagine? Dakich could have shown more understanding and tolerance..I believe Crean had the chance to heal some wounds and put some of the kids on a straighter course..Instead of forgiveness, he chose persecution. He was still “throwing stones” last season..How long will the deeds of the persecuted druggies and flunkies be reason our failings? It’s in the past. Time to move forward with the settled dust.

  21. It’s amazing how many people posting here want to have their cake and eat it too.

    On the one hand, we want to do things “the right way.” We want a coach who emulates Bog Knight and his emphasis on discipline, respect for elders, academic performance and community involvement. We want a coach who doesn’t cheat, who doesn’t cut corners for the sake of winning a few more games. We want a coach who recruits players who consider it an honor to wear the uniform.

    But when Crean attempts to do those things by electing not to retain players who, by his account, felt a gross sense of entitlement when it came to playing for such a prestigious program, we criticize him. He refused to coddle and baby players who had previously shown they had no care for attending class or being punctual for team meetings, and who wouldn’t face the consequences for those actions.

    Now, they may be fine individuals, but the actions warranted the punishment, and I’m honestly confounded at how quickly losing changes peoples’ principles. If you want a hard-nosed coach who does things “the right way,” you have to be willing to accept the temporary unfortunate consequences.

    It really is remarkable how many people NOW second guess Crean’s decision to dismiss those players. Maybe you would’ve done differently, but to say he was wrong or not justified is ridiculous.

    Just ask yourselves, if we were a winning program again, would you still say Crean acted harshly? Would you still care that he allowed players to walk away? I’m thinking not.

  22. a good coach would have came in and instilled discipline and helped these kids straighten out their lives. a good coach would have still had us in the tournament in 08 with bassett, crawford, holman, etc. as I have said before, Crean set us back even more than Sampson because of the way he cleared everybody out or could not get people to stay if you prefer to look at it that way. The NCAA was easy on us. The house creaning was not.

  23. Casey- That’s your standard argument, and you do it well. I think you are right on. I even like the Bog part.

    I also think that there was no way, with the huge media storm/frenzy surrounding the Sampson allegations, and the swift and stern actions taken by Jockich, that Crean could have strolled in here limp-wristed and said “you know what everyone, now that you’ve decided to pay me millions, I am going to give everyone a second chance and ‘help everyone straighten things out'”.

    He came into a situation where he had to march with the crowd, even if the crowd was being slightly irrational.

  24. I guess it just takes a magic wand to fix kids that throw pots after not hearing what they want. Same with kids that still refused to listen to the new coach, afterall they just need to have discipline instilled right? They needed chances number 5 6 7 10 20 right? How do you know that Crean did not give these kids a shot? That’s right, you’re the insider that knows all things IU.

  25. Good for Victor. If someone makes 1st team All-Met with all the talent in that area and is still considered by some grizzled hick as “the third best player on his team” I guess his teamates must be NBA caliber. Can’t wait to see that first alley-oop VO throws down….if only 4g’s could be waiting under the basket with mouth agape for crow.

    You sir have the memory of a guppy. Crean asked Holman and Crawford to stay. Something along the lines of Holman throwing a tantrum and a plant along with Crawford going home over the summer and deciding he would like to start anew. Pretty sure Crean also said that there was a culture of entitlement that needed to be changed. Did these facts slip your mind or are you creating your own reality again. Good grief you just don’t have a clue do you? How can it be cleaning house when the dust blows out on it’s own?

  26. I find it odd that 4guards also post things on Purdue’s message board, under the same name…Not surprising though, that is what troll’s do. He wanted us to keep kids who combined failed 30 drug test, on academic probation, and refused to run stairs. Yeah Crean set us back further than sampson…….

  27. Maybe you should learn to read. I said he “cleared everybody out or could not get people to stay”. Either way he is incompetent.

  28. I have never posted anything on any purdue message board. If there is a 4guards on it, they are immitating me.

  29. Good for Victor. If someone makes 1st team All-Met with all the talent in that area and is still considered by some grizzled hick as “the third best player on his team” I guess his teamates must be NBA caliber. Can’t wait to see that first alley-oop VO throws down….if only 4g’s could be waiting under the basket with mouth agape for crow.

    ^^^ I nominate this for quote of the year.

    4guards must be one of those homeless hicks that spends all day on computers at the public library.

    When his real favorite team, the Blowbos, got blown out by a #11 seed, be blamed it on a few small injuries that kept “0” of New Mexico’s players out of the game.

    Yet, when “his” team loses its best player for almost the entire season (and its best 3 point shooter), he refuses to let that be the most minimal excuse.

  30. Hopefully VO can get some wide open dunks because we all know he cannot hit a jump shot. I doubt he actually sees the court much. Can you imagine Rivers and him on the court at the same time?
    On the Peegs thread, some agree with me and some disagree. Not sure why that is a relevant topic here on this site.
    Didn’t we get beat by Boston on a neutral court why Creek was still playing? Didn’t they offer Daniel Moore a scholarship?

  31. I totally disagree with 4 guards, so what else is new? I really liked the way that Watford and Elston attacked the rim last year. I did not like the results, but some big strong experienced guys “schooled” them. Next year they will understand how to use their athleticism. I really like Oladipo, he is a TEAM guy first, and a STAT guy never. He does have a jump shot, I saw him score 26 against Gonzaga HS, but he needs consistency. However, Bobby Wilkerson was THE MOST ATHLETIC player in the History of IU basketball! He was listed at 6’7 but he had to be 6’8-9. Did you see him grab 26 rebounds vs UCLA in the semifinals? The Best! I think of Jim Thomas when I watch Oladipo. Jim played on Isiah’s Championship team, 6’3-4, could really go vertical, played in the NBA, really good person!

  32. Funny how we so easily forgive the guys that fund the pocketbooks of television executives and mass merchandising corporations that need to keep selling their logos on uniforms, t-shirts, hats, shoes, golf balls, and everything under the sun never shining on a 16-year-old Chinese girl trapped in a slave labor camp. We can sure take the moral high ground to cheer for bong-toking Olympic swimmers, steroid-injecting home run hitters, gang-banging golf pros, and the rest a family of hypocrites and billionaires that rape sport of any dignity. But heaven forbid we never let a kid from destitute streets off the hook our holier-than-thou judgments because he tosses a clay pot in frustration, smokes a joint, or lacks the mature guidance a solid mentor to succeed in school. Most of you would have just as easily turned them into church boys without NCAA witch hunt coming to our door.

    The survival of the fittest, to stay ahead of the game,
    Man without compassion, is Darwin to blame?
    When our fortunes will crumble, they will bury no shame,
    When the helping hand we seek, becomes the fisted same.

    Tiger Woods is two under….Go Tiger!

  33. A hardy Teddy Roosevelt “Bully-Bully” to Casey for that post.
    After 30 failed piss tests and 19 F’s discipline was hardly an item of high interest to a bunch who only wanted to do things their way. And they failed that opportunity by making damn poor decisions. Since they were their because of the dollars donated for there to be scholarships to use they needed to deal with the discipline or get out. I would have supported either decision.
    It is hard for me to conjure up what the person would be like that would want to imitate coach4disreguards.
    BeatPurdue, for what it is worth Bobby Wilkerson is my all time favorite IU BB player. What a defender.

  34. TC,

    Totally see your point. It’s valid and I agree there is a gaping disparity and a double standard in what you point out.

    That being said, in the context of college athletics and what Crean was asked to do coming in, my point is that he was justified. If he decided to give them a second (third, fourth or fifth) chance, that’s his right. But it’s also his prerogative if he wants to start over, and I think that’s respectable and aligns with the high standards to which so many proud alumni hold our basketball program.

    The fact is, though, when you’re playing on a college team, you can’t fail classes. Hell, if you fail classes and you’re NOT on a team, you’re still in hot water. When you represent your school as part of a team, you’re willingly accepting that you’ll be held to a higher standard and exposed to a higher level of scrutiny. It comes with the territory — and not just at Indiana.

    Let’s also remember that Crawford, Basset and Ellis all served suspensions during that season for “violations of team rules.” And Holman sat out a year of high school ball because he was suspended for shoving a referee after a disagreement over a call. DeAndre Thomas was a JUCO transfer who lazily allowed himself to surpass 320 pounds in weight, and he suffered on the court because of it.

    I’m not making judgments on these guys, and I’m happy for the ones who have found success elsewhere, but let’s not act as if none of them received multiple chances to prove themselves. Sometimes it’s just best to part ways.

  35. Good posts by both Casey and Cummings, with good points made on both sides.

    Cummings, I am going to have to call you out here – eventually you are going to have to address the actual issues at hand that Casey speaks of, instead of simply pointing out the hypocrisy of society, which is not a substitute for an argument.

    For example, like Casey said, failing classes and consistently violating team rules is not a good thing.

    You can’t just keep worming your way out of addressing such behavior by saying “Michael Phelps did bad things, too.”

    In general, I have far more sympathy for the products of American ghettos and institutionalised racism than I do for the privileged Zellers, Phelps, and Plumberlees of the world. However, at some point, we need to agree on a certain set of standards and conduct for a university basketball team that is either respected, or its violators are shown the door.

  36. Casey and Schrempf –

    Thank you for not stooping to taking cheap shots. Nice to see posters make an effort to debate without the favorite pastime of attaching anything short of a Pollyannaish agreement to 4guards.
    I have no problem with Crean’s prerogative to start over. I couldn’t envision IU moving forward any other way. I just got very sick of post-game interviews when he continued to take shots at the kids that didn’t measure up. I get sick of hearing it today from bloggers. I hope I don’t hear it again from Crean..I think it begins to have counterproductive effect on the way the public(and recruits?) look at IU basketball…I think it begins to discredit Tom Crean by focusing far too heavily on what derailed the IU train than the intelligent new conductor we now have in charge of taking us forward a new track. I think it’s time to define missions, measures of achievement, and self-determination without attaching it to a few labeled pothead misfits, class-skippers, and the horrible 3-way calling monster that dropped the atom bomb on IU basketball. When will the fallout end? I don’t get caught up in the number of wins and losses..I can live with the prospect of a couple more seasons without an NCAA berth…I am more than happy to be patient with the rebuilding process..I thoroughly enjoy the fine quality of new players we now have wearing the cream and crimson..I think the future is looking bright. I guess that’s what gets me the most frustrated ..I get frustrated when the hard-working kids we now have in uniform have their efforts/talents trivialized by voices that forever evaluate results based upon a circle-set of opinions entrapped within the seemingly endless encapsulated hate of those they blame our past “decimation”. Makes me wonder if there are any fans to be found that can singularly love their newly adopted Hoosiers and give their coach an unbiased grade of “A”(B+?)without the vengeful hate mixed in the same sentence of those they so rightfully and righteously piss-tested away.

  37. If I may add one more thought…? It seems a very weak trickle our best Hoosier defense to fight the blogger with endless stream of piss on our coach with nothing better than the specimens of hate the same. I may be in minority of such opinion, but to me it’s all urine of spite.

  38. Hey 4guards did you see the 3 point shooting this kid did! Now tell me he doesnt have a shot! Please dont make dumb&*& comments to me until you check things out! Thanks

  39. I watched the video. His form is terrible. Barely gets off the ground. Some really bad misses and not a good performance overall. The only reason he moved on was because he did better than the likes of Moses Abraham.

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