Hoosier Morning

Ohio State Indiana basketball

Chris Howell | Herald-Times

AT HOOSIERSHQ.COM

  • Jordan Hulls said he and his teammates were impressed by Guy-Marc Michel and that the rebuilding effort is coming along, Chris Korman writes.
  • The baseball team overcame an eight-run deficit in the eighth inning to defeat Kentucky, Dustin Dopirak writes.

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33 comments

  1. It must have been hard for Korman to hear from Hulls that the “rebuilding effort is coming along.”

    It was Korman, after all, who, earlier this year, declared so confidently that “the rebuilding effort has clearly stalled.” (By the way I’ve noticed that “clearly” is one of Korman’s favorite words; I often wish I could see things so clearly).

  2. What do you expect Hulls to say?
    Hulls is not in a position to state facts such as the rebuilding effort has clearly stalled.

  3. Only 4guards is in a position to speak about the status of the rebuilding effort. Everyone knows that.

  4. The team has voted on the rebuilding effort and Coach Crean…by staying. It looks like not one kid is transfering. If they didn’t think this thing was turning around and that Crean was their guy, they would have voted with their feet and left.

  5. GFDave, what you posted is why I used to think but now I know for sure that some of the posters on this blog ASSume way way too much!!!

  6. Thank you, GF. We’ve seen high-profile guys leave big-time programs already this year, and yet all is quiet on the IU front. Yet you get the feeling that idiots like 4tards are secretly rooting for mutiny, hoping that there is still time for transfers – he’d rather be “right” about the coach then wish success for the team.

    I just can’t fathom how any true fan would be anything but optimistic and excited for the upcoming season and the promise it brings. If you can’t put aside your doubts until further proof is delivered, and embrace the young group we have, you should be tied up to a post and flogged publicly. I, for my part, am doing the same with Lynch – although I am very suspicious of his coaching ability, there comes a point, as the season inches nearer, where excitement and optimism take over and I suspend my judgement.

  7. Hulls will stay in Bloomington this summer, working to improve his strength and gain about five pounds to get to 180. His admiration for strength coach Jeff Watkinson — who ultimately spends more time directly working with players than anyone in the program — recently prompted him to change his major from sports marketing to more of a physical fitness track. He’ll take kinesiology and anatomy courses, with an eye on becoming a trainer or going to medical school when his basketball career ends.

    He knows he needs to become a better leader and has spoken with Crean and Watkinson about ways to do that. He’s also watching NBA point guards such as Steve Nash and Rajon Rondo. Being a leader on this Indiana team remains somewhat of an awkward task because of the lack of seniors, and Hulls generally led by example as part of a South program that relies on the leadership of a veteran, established coaching staff.

    We need to listen to Hulls more and less to Crean. Hulls is the kind of player that will carry this program on his shoulders back to where it deserves to be. Crean groupies will continue to credit the resurgence to Crean’s compulsive clapping; meanwhile Hulls will quietly roll his sleeves and turn the program around, perhaps with the image of another Indiana guard in his mind, a guard who came to Bloomington about 30 years ago to became the university’s all time leading scorer with 2,438 points – a record later eclipsed by Calbert Cheaney (who eventually went on to become the Big Ten’s all time leading scorer). A guard that was the first player to be named the team’s MVP four times, also a first team All-American, and who was the named Big Ten MVP during the 1986-87 season. In the Legends of College Basketball by The Sporting News that Indiana guard was #35 on the list of the 100 greatest Division-I college basketball players. When The Sporting News named its top ten NCAA basketball players of the 1980s in December 1989, he was listed at number ten. Somewhere somehow the memory of that player is a guiding light for young Mr. Hulls but don’t expect him to say out loud his name any time soon for fear of sending Crean into a fit of this and this or this.

    Meanwhile Crean groupies and detractors alike will be busy clapping and cheering for Indiana’s young Mr. Hulls.

  8. I want nothing more than to have a successful season. I definitely am not hoping for a “mutiny”. I am pulling for Crean to become a good coach, but I also am realistic that it is not going to happen. As far as transfers, yes I do hope we have 2 in Bawa and Capo. And yes there still is plenty of time for transfers (not that I am saying we will have some).Thanks to Crean, we have no scholarships available for a loaded 2011 Indiana class. These guys sign this fall.

  9. I am with GF on this. And, I am ready for hoops season to start tomorrow. Let’s see what we got, and get after it. Just skip football and go right to basketball. Oh, and I am ready for 4nads to go back to the blog of the team he truly cares about, whatever that might be (PeeU maybe?). He clealy is not an IU fan, but rather like a pimple on the rear of a elephant.

  10. Well Husky you can publicly flog me. Do I hope we have a lot better year and really improve? Absolutely. Am I optimistic that it will happen? Not really. We can’t get much worse so I don’t feel like 13-15 wins is any real improvement. Nor is 8th in the B10. We finished at or below what we easily should have been, even with Creek getting hurt. Also, the teams are worse this year. Iowa is even worse than last year, Michigan lost their 2 best players, and Penn State just is Penn State.

    As far as voting on the rebuilding effort by staying? How so? Where do you expect them to go? Most are playing above their pay grade at a historic program with full rides. If they leave, with the exception of Jones, Watford, Creek, or Hulls, who if any of our kids would go to a program that’s in as good of a conference?

    Transfers are more often than not for a lesser school. For every Seth Curry, there is a KSAS that went from prime time t.v. to a UAB and is hardly heard from again. Bassett didn’t get noticed again until their conference tourney. How is staying a vote of confidence.

    Would you uproot yourself from a job paying 100k a year to go to one paying 25k a year in a city thats not as good if you didn’t get fired? If you were working with less talented people with less supplies?

    I’m not saying they don’t have confidence, or I don’t hope we are better. I want to win, and I want whats best for the program. I don’t think firing a coach would be best, but unless we prove in the next 2 years that we can keep some top in state talent and do more with youth and less talent, then I’m not sure Crean is whats best either. The time to prove one way or the other is now. If this is not ‘true fandom’ as labeled by someone who also loves Washington, then I’m okay with that, you can be your type of fan, personally I want people who want whats best for our program.

    Besides, if everyone just went off of love and optimism in a program, Bobby would have never been fired. I’m pretty sure his legacy and record trump Creans for now and yet we still saw that he was not the best for our school anymore. Optimism and positive cushy feelings for everything a coach does means nothing to the reality of what team and product we put on the floor. There is never 100% support or desent in a program. Being on one opinions side or another does not prove who’s a fan or not in any sense.

    Just in case I’m wrong though…
    *clap*clap*clap*clap*clap* Go Hoosiers!

  11. Hoagland said: “If they leave, with the exception of Jones, Watford, Creek, or Hulls, who if any of our kids would go to a program that’s in as good of a conference?”

    Why are you omitting Watford, Jones, Creek and Hulls from your argument?

    Why didn’t any of them leave? I would think it’s because they believe they can do something special within our program. Because they’re confident enough in the direction they’re moving that they choose to stay, even though, according to you, they could easily transfer to a more developed program in an equal conference.

    Those were the players fans were worried about losing, anyway. They had a chance to get out after only one year, but they didn’t. That says something.

  12. I just watched a Pat Forde vid on ESPN.COM wherein he discussed the B10 expansion. The one new thing he discussed was the possibility of a 16 team league divided into 4 pods, not two divisions.

    This is an intriguing concept and would seem to lend itself to flexible scheduling that would protect traditional rivalries and potentially generate a two step B10 football playoff wherein pod winners face each other in the semis and then advance to a championship game.

    For fun, let’s say Missouri and Nebraska are in (lots of noise that they want to do it). Let’s also assume that its Rutgers, Syracuse and, say, Pitt. The four pods might be:

    East: Penn State, Pitt, Rutgers, Syracuse
    Central: Michigan State, Michigan, Ohio State, Indiana
    North: Illinois, Northwestern, Wisconsin, Purdue
    West: Iowa, Missouri, Minnesota, Nebraska

    So the schedule would be:
    –Play 3 games w/in pod
    –Play 4 games against Pods X, Y and Z on rotating basis
    –One game on the Second Sat of Nov reserved for traditional rivals (whether in your own Pod or not)
    –One outlier game from a third Pod IF your traditional rival is in your Pod or in the Pod you are playing in this year’s rotation.

    That’s 8 B10 regular season games. Add two potential playoff games to generate oodles of dollars and you’ve got a model that no other conference can currently compete with.

    Of course Notre Dame joining means one of Pitt, Syracuse or Rutgers does not join and their would shuffling of the Pods whereby:

    East: PSU, Pitt, Syracuse, Ohio State
    Central: MSU, Michigan, Notre Dame, Purdue (or IU)
    North: Indiana (or PU), Illinois, Northwestern, Wisconsin
    West: Missouri, Nebraska, Minny, Iowa

  13. Maybe the high flying Dalai Lama (I read that he was in B-town for an official visit) will join the HOOSIERS for the 2010 – 2011 season,or at least remove the black cloud from over our basketball program.Go Dalai

  14. You callous experts of everything basketball make transferring sound so easy…You throw around the wishes of these young men as if they are incapable of measuring up to your flawless reasoning..everything based on perfect assessments of intentions not yours in an exacting plastic world you create where irrational decisions of heart have no importance to guide a man from darkness to hopeful day.

    I’m convinced blogs are nothing more than a bottomless dark cyberhole to send the screams our wishes in final desperation… into the depths of a lifeless well never drawn from warm embrace, and wait like fools an echo back, a loving voice never heard.

  15. Husky just what is it L’accent drinks? It should be removed from the shelves.

  16. Crean is a clapping sausage. I am a bird brain. Most people would rather be a sausage.

    Don’t you ever trust what a bird brain says (or writes).

  17. Casey,

    Really I included them because they are the only 4 that could go to equal value of a conference. There could be several reasons why they didn’t transfer, including yours that they believe, which presumably they should or why did they come here? Also, I included them because if I didn’t, you or someone else would complain about me not giving them their due respect. Just because belief is an option does not mean that its the case.

    Other possible reasons:

    -None of them would get the minutes or touches in any other program with the exception of Hulls, and that’s just because hes a point guard. Even still he probably wouldn’t. Does Watford finish 2nd or 3rd in Freshman of the year votes if hes sharing minutes and touches with upper classmen?

    -Why sit out a year when you can play now, and play young, not have to sit behind a veteran or compete with a recruit that comes in the year you regain eligibility?

    – They like each other. Why would you want to go meet new friends when you like the core and school around you. That doesn’t mean that they agree and buy into everything the coach says, but that they want to play with each other. You think all of these guys like Rivers? I highly doubt it, but will you ever hear them say it? No! It’s the same with coaches, systems, and programs, if not worse because your minutes depend on it. If Crean is allowed to say its worse than I imagined coming here give me an extension, then why is it hard to believe a kid could stay, but think man, this isn’t what I expected at all?

    It takes a lot wrong to make someone leave, almost everything wrong, but it only takes one or two things to make them stay. Do Iowa’s or Michigans players deserve our attention because they believe in their coach, new or old? They stayed didn’t they? That must mean they believe they can be great, so this should mean something to us?

    Arguably two of our top 4 players left the year before. Should I start spouting that this is a vote of non-confidence? Story and Williams saw that we weren’t going anywhere so they got out?

    It just doesn’t make sense to make that conclusion either way. The fact is, we don’t know about someones feelings until they transfer, and sometimes we don’t know them even then because believe it or not, some people know its not good image management to bash old coaches or players and throw them under the bus.

  18. It’s speculation either way, of course.

    I have my opinions, you have yours.

    I just think it’s more reasonable to conclude that most of the players either like or can tolerate Crean, and thus elected to stay.

    I believe that over the theory that they’re all staying because they want a lot of minutes on a crappy team, or because they’re all best friends forever and couldn’t bear leaving being apart.

  19. Casey,

    I didn’t say you couldn’t choose to believe that, or that i believed those other things. Just that I didn’t believe that it means anything that the team ‘voted for the rebuilding effort and for coach Crean’ by not transferring. A does not equal B.

    Personally I don’t care why each one of them stayed, I care that they stayed. It doesn’t prove or dissprove someones belief (either way it sways) on Creans job so far. Player or Poster.

    Sorry for arguing and sticking up for a differing opionion from others on this blog. It doesn’t have to be left wing (4guards) or right wing (Huskey Tom, Hoosier Clarion) It doesn’t have to come down to you are a fan, or not a fan, because you think differently than someone.

    I hope you guys are right and Tom Crean wins 3 championships in the next 10 years, I love his enthusiasm, his desire to do it ‘the right way’ and his engagement in the community.

    However, if you ask me now, I just don’t see it yet, or enough to make me really believe its going to happen. I’ve never liked the pick and roll offense, and so far we’ve just been average or right where anyone who wanted to do it the right way would have us after 2 years. I was hoping for more, but not expecting it. We’ve had some awesome recruits, and some flakes, but so does everyone.

    I don’t really think we’ve won any games we shouldn’t have (If we had got UK or Purdue last year on our court we would’ve. Also, Pitt was down two of their best players, and Michigan wasn’t really any good.) and we have defenitely lost some games we shouldn’t have. I don’t care what he or anyone else did in their previous job, but so far on THIS job he hasn’t wowed me. He hasn’t thrown something at another team that just troubled them, but its happened to us. I hope that changes in the next 2 years, and I will be glad to praise him if/when he does.

    So far, I just can’t share your guys optomism because I haven’t seen anything that makes me feel like we’ve turned a corner. I know what happened to the program, I didn’t expect to be in the tourney yet, I just thought we’d be further than this. This, I would say, is in a position where almost everything has to go perfectly in a lot of different areas for us to have a better than expected season.

  20. Hoagland,

    I agree that our views of IU basketball don’t have to be consistently dichotomous. I think pretty much every issue and topic surrounding the program right now is far from black and white.

    I’m optimistic because it’s my nature, and it’s more fun to be.

    I don’t think I’ve ever given the impression that I think Crean is God’s gift to coaching, but I absolutely believe that he should be given more than two seasons to prove that he’s up to the task. At this point, I don’t see his first two years as a failure as much as I see the turnaround unfolding more slowly than many had thought or hoped it would.

    I do, however, sense that improvement will be consistent during Crean’s tenure. The issue will simply be whether that improvement is made fast enough, and significantly enough to satisfy the IU fanbase.

    We’ll see. And it’s far from certain, but I figure I might as well look for the bright spots and hope for the best at this juncture.

  21. I believe that there is indeed a dichotomy here. You can break us here on the Scoop down into two basic camps:

    1) Those who believe that two years, even with youth, injuries to a key player, and the damage incurred by the previous administration, is enough time to judge a coach’s merit and ability.

    2) Those who don’t.

    It’s really that simple. If you are skeptical at this point, to me it shows a lack of patience to see this thing through. Miracles don’t happen overnight. Every new coach deserves a chance to see his first big recruiting class play as upper-classmen. It is then that we all can start to ask the questions.

    Next year the pressure goes up, big time. Even though I believe that 2012 should be the first year where the tournament is obligatory for this team, next year will really be when we can start to judge the Crean administration on fair grounds.

  22. When I was a kid we used to go to the fairgrounds and watch the sheep, pigs, chickens, horses and cows get judged.

  23. It’s really that simple. If you are skeptical at this point, to me it shows a lack of patience …

    Nice post, but let’s keep the logic straight: If you are skeptical at this point and belong to the second category then I agree it’s definitely a lack of patience. However, if you are skeptical but belong to the first category than Husky Tom can’t extend any judgment over that because he belongs to the second category and therefore can’t perceive any of the truth that defines the first. (It’s that simple, if you’re honest with your thoughts!) So he has no jurisdiction over those belonging to that category, he can just state their existence (as he perceptively did above) and the two categories should just learn to coexist peacefully.

    Someone was saying: Crean is the coach, you don’t like it then go to another team! Not so, not so: Obama is currently president, but those who didn’t vote him don’t have to relinquish citizenship, and the Republican Party (confused and misguided as they are currently) should continue to exist and should be helped to become a bit stronger too, so they can provide the meaningful opposition.

    I can live with Crean. I have a feeling he knows that when the team will start playing he needs to be a very discreet and effective guide. I think he can do that, I think he is looking forward to that, his frustration is that he’s not there yet and can’t make that happen by himself. (I happen to believe other coaches in the same circumstances as Crean’s current situation could have been more successful, in the same amount of time; but I am willing to admit that maybe Crean was the best of the available ones, fine.) What bothers me are the people who adulate Crean and their duplicitary logic: they claim they belong to the second category (so please don’t judge Crean by what he did so far at Indiana) but somehow they’re sure that Crean is the best for this job (although his tenure at Marquette was not that impressive and Crean himself said that he hasn’t been through anything like what he’s going through now and so he has no experience and therefore provides absolutely no guarantee that he is indeed the man to succeed in this unusual task; but the groupies have absolutely no doubt).

    On a slightly unrelated note let me congratulate Coach Crean for the team’s GPA, great job Coach Crean! Too bad I can’t remember our GPA in 2002 or 1987. And not many many reporters asked Mike Kryszewski and Brad Stevens about their teams’ GPA in March — biased reporters they were, with little or no knowledge about the most remarkable aspects of this game!

  24. (I happen to believe other coaches in the same circumstances as Crean’s current situation could have been more successful, in the same amount of time; …)

    Crean himself has said that if he had to go through this one more time he’d do a couple of things differently which means that he has learned from this, more than the irritating sycophants will ever be able or willing to accept.

  25. So the admission that one learns through one’s whole life is seen as a flaw or defect? Rubbish.

    Nice word, sycophant. Why don’t you try on narcissist and see how it fits. I’m sure you take extra large, like your posts.

  26. He learned from his mistakes; the groupies never admitted he made any mistakes and won’t ever admit to that. Because, you see, they think it’s all about them. You GFDave are both narcissist and insecure and often appear to think you own this blog. But please, tell us more about the time spent as a kid watching chickens, pigs, sheep, horses and cows being judged at the fairgrounds. Can you do it as a dialogue between you and less insecure you, where it turns into a ballad towards the end?

    By the way, does anyone have Dwyane Wade’s GPA in 2002-2003?

  27. Epimenides – they say what you put on to others is really what you feel about yourself.

    Searched for Dwayne Wade’s GPA and it is not published but he is projected to be worth 100 million. By the way he is not done.

    For me I would give all of my meaningless points for 100 million.

  28. t-rav, I sincerely believe you are a liar. As a matter of fact I believe all people who write on this blog to be consummate liars, including me — including even this very post.

  29. I’ll never be as clever as you, L’accent. It hurts me to say that. And I am not lying this time.

  30. cream is a snake oil salesman, there is no method to their madness. His continous maarching up and down the sidelines is for show.I have forgotten more about baasketball then he will ever know. GTet an Indiana boy and In diana kids and we might be sucessful

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