Scout story on Noreen doesn’t mention IU

At this point, this is probably a foregone conclusion. But people were still asking about Kevin Noreen on the blog today, so I figured I’d post this Q&A with Noreen from Iowa’s scout site.

It’s a subscription story, so some of you will get it and some of you won’t. The gist of it is that the 6-foot-10 forward from Minnesota, who decommitted from Boston College, is still undecided as to his college plans. He will visit Iowa and Iowa State after the dead period ending May 28 and wants to make a decision soon after.

The story lists the visits Noreen has already taken and Indiana is not among them. He was expected to visit May 15-16, and immediately after the Hoosiers’ signing of JUCO center Guy-Marc Michel, Noreen’s father said he still planned on making the visit. It was later reported that the visit had been canceled, however, and even though the Noreen camp never confirmed that he would not be in Bloomington, this story appears to confirm that he did not in fact visit.

82 comments

  1. It will take two years for him to gain enough weight to play effectively in the B10.

  2. How many years will it take Michel, Oladipo, or Sheehey to play effectively in the B10? Oh that’s right, they will never be effective in the B10.

  3. 4guards,

    I lifted this from another post, just in case you missed it. 😉

    I just think it’s asinine to throw up Noreen’s super-inflated numbers from the lowest possible class of basketball in a non talent-rich state, as if it provides any feasible indication of how he’ll translate as a college player.

    Think about it this way — put Noreen in Indiana. Even in Indiana Class A, he’d score less than what he did in Minnesota Class A (so, under 40). I don’t think it’s a stretch to say that. Now put him in Indiana Class 5A — what does he score then? That’s a four-class jump, so let’s say he averages HALF of what he’d be averaging in Class A — so something like 16 or 18 points per game.

    THEN — project that onto his college game. All of a sudden, you have a guy who, in his first year or two, will probably average the same amount of points, and maybe even less blocks (because of his underwhelming physical stature) than Michel. Meanwhile, Michel has the potential to make a solid impact, and then his scholarship will be available in only two years, leaving more room for incoming recruits from the 2012 and 2013 classes, which we all know are loaded.

    If you’re saying Michel’s game will get worse as he moves up only one level, then apply that same logic to Noreen. He’s going from Class A ball in a non-basketball state to Division One NCAA basketball. That’s a much bigger jump than JUCO to NCAA.

    If he’s such a great player, and if it’s such a mistake for IU to have not moved on him, then why is this kid still uncommitted and visiting Iowa and Iowa State?

    Maybe it’s because top coaches are skeptical of padded numbers racked up by a 6′ 10″ player who routinely competed against JV level kids throughout high school.

    Once again, try being consistent in how you apply your “logic.” That’s all anyone here asks.

  4. For a fair comparision ask yourself this. What kind of numbers would Michel put up if playing on Noreen’s high school team instead of Noreen? Would it be 40 pts and 17 rbs. If you say yes, you are either lying or drinking some major kool aid.
    He is uncommitted because he chose to be. He has plenty of offers out there. He is a 4 star top 100 talent for crying out loud. You are acting like he can’t find a taker.

  5. I would have liked Noreen, but I am not writing off our committed recruits yet. Any long time college basketball fan knows that HS recruits can average great numbers, yet end up a dud in the college game. IU fans should be very used to this phenomenon. Ill defer recruiting expertise to Crean and his staff. If these recruits dont pan out in 2-3 years, then Ill be ready to say that they were a mistake.

  6. Man, you’re really clinging to that Kool-Aid joke.

    For a fair comparison, ask yourself this. What kind of numbers would Noreen put up if playing in the top class of a competitive basketball state instead of the lowest class in a non-basketball region?

    You’d honestly want to lock Noreen in for four years, given the 2012 and 2013 classes in the state? You’re one of the people at the forefront of the “Crean doesn’t know how to manage scholarships” movement. I’d rather have Michele here for two years than Noreen eating up a scholarship when there will be better options.

    His grossly inflated high school numbers can only take him so far. It’s all about how his game will translate to college. I have no doubt Michel would not score 40 ppg at any high school, but his physical attributes and wingspan make him someone who could automatically contribute solid minutes in college. Can we really say the same about Noreen?

    I think the answer is: we don’t know. There’s just no way to know how great numbers against poor competition will translate, but for you to sit there and act as if he’s a sure thing is as silly as me saying Michel will be the best center in the Big Ten.

    And of course he’ll find a taker, but he’s currently setting up visits with a team that just fired its coach and is projected to finish last in the Big Ten, and their in-state rival better known for its occasionally good football team.

  7. 4guards is also going to bring up the scholarship question in a later arguement…..michel helped that situation, but he will still rip on Crean for that situation.

    Lose-Lose no matter what for 4G.

  8. If history has taught us anything, it is that open scholarships do not mean anything to us anymore. If we have an open spot, Crean will just take the first person to say yes and fill it with some 3 star out of state wing or 7 foot foreign guy who can barely walk and chew gum.
    Noreen would put up more than 7 pts a game playing at a JUCO out in Idaho.
    I wouldn’t belittle Iowa so much. I believe they took us to the woodshed last year. Embarrassing.
    Now go drink some of that Kool-Aid (Joke just for you Casey)

  9. Seems asking the what if question regarding Noreen stepping up against better competition is fair, but it ruins 4guards stand on both Noreen and Zeller. He came right out and said Noreen is awesome because he scored 40/game in Class A MN ball. He says Zeller is awesome because he put up 20pts/26reb in the state championship game against Dawson. Yet, we have some precedent for the competition question based on Zeller’s numbers this AAU season. Thus, the question about higher level competition has some support which ruins his stance a bit on both players especially since he only wants to use stats to make the arguement.

    The real question…is it going to be better to have Noreen in 2012-2013 season than DSR, Parea, Patterson, Hammons, Harris, Hollowell, Farrell, or…?

  10. I think Noreen would’ve been a much better pick up. No one will ever know because we didn’t even wait for him to visit. He didn’t get a chance to play with Hulls. I think we signed Guy because we hired McClain and he had to make some sort of impact. Crean doesn’t care about the scholarship situation, everyone is told don’t worry it will work out, so I don’t see why 2012 or 2013 would be an issue in not signing Noreen.

  11. We can argue all day about Noreen. I have just one question. Why is Minnesota not offering him a scholarship?

  12. I wouldn’t trust his judgment either.

    I mean, he only has 450 wins, a .709 career winning percentage, three trips to the Elite Eight and a National Championship.

    He’s obviously a poor judge of talent.

  13. Ask Jimmy Williams about Tubby’s judgement.
    Royce White , Trevor Mbakwe. This guy has just been oozing with good judgement.

  14. Every coach makes a few questionable signs in his career. Stop being ridiculous. He’s won a national championship. He knows how to coach basketball.

    Here’s an excerpt from a May 4 article in Minnesota’s Star-Tribune:

    “Smith watched 6-10 forward Kevin Noreen (Minnesota Transitions) work out a few weeks ago, but I think the Gophers still question whether he can play in the Big Ten. And there are concerns about the reigning Mr. Basketball’s lingering back injury.”

    That pretty much sums it up right there, I think. People question how his game will translate to a significantly higher level of competition, AND he had a back injury which has scared a lot of coaches off. Lots of question marks. He’s far from a sure thing, and I don’t see why it’s so difficult to believe many teams have passed on him, including IU.

  15. It is so difficult to believe IU passed on him , because we took Michel instead.
    He may be far from a sure thing, but he is much closer to a sure thing than Michel. Can you not understand that? The strongest argument I hear about Michel is that he is only going to be here for 2 years. That should tell you everything you need to know right there.
    And this article is just one man’s opinion.

  16. Tubby also inherited a PRETTY good UK team and thats why he had to go to Minn in the first place. For the record I would never seek advice from any ex UK coaches.

  17. 4guards,

    How much have you watched Michel play? That’s what I want to know. How much has anyone, outside of coaches, watched him really? The arguments for Michel are that he’s physically superior to Noreen, and he’s a defensive force inside. He has a 7′ 6″ wingspan and he moves at an above average level for someone his size. The fact that he leaves in two years IS a plus. He fills a hole for us temporarily but will move on by the time we (hopefully) find a better option.

    Why not give him a chance to play a game first, before you declare him a waste? Same for Oladipo and Sheehey.

    And yes, the article is one man’s opinion — the Minnesota basketball beat writer. His opinion is based on day-to-day interactions with people heavily immersed in Minnesota basketball. I seem to remember you arguing that Korman’s and Dopirak’s opinions carry more weight because of their occupations as IU sportswriters…

    Wait until Michel plays five games, at least. Sheesh.

  18. JB,

    If Bobby Knight was so good, why the transition from IU to Texas Tech?

    It’s never quite that simple.

    All I know is the guy has had 17 consecutive 20-win seasons. The only time he’s missed the tournament in that span was his first year with Minnesota. He’s won a national championship and taken a notoriously mediocre Minnesota team to the NCAA tournament the past two years.

    I hate Kentucky as much as the next rational person, but Tubby’s got some pretty impressive numbers on his side. It’s feasible to say he’s gota at least somewhat of an idea as to how to coach and build a successful team.

  19. I have seen clips. I have read scouting reports. I have looked at his stats. I have seen that he is not even ranked in the top 50 JUCO’s.
    Why did Gonzaga (where he really wants to be) back away?
    How many more games do I need to give Bawa before I pass judgement? Or since I have seen him play 5 times is that ok?

  20. 4guards,

    I really love your constantly revolving logic. You use the rankings against one player, and ignore them in relation to another.

    You’re discouraged because Michel was not even ranked in the top 50 JUCO players (meaningless). Fine. So you value the rankings.

    Let’s remember now, that Muniru was ranked in Rivals top 150 coming in (something like 111, I believe). This means one of two things: Either he IS good and is simply taking time to develop (as most big men do), OR rankings are somewhat useless — which would mean that Michel’s absence from the JUCO doesn’t necessarily mean he’s a lost cause.

    I don’t think anyone’s expecting Michel to be our savior, but think about how he might fit in with some of our other players on the court. We need rebounding, defensive disruption and a cog in the middle to deter people from driving on us at will. If he can provide those things, then he’s a positive addition.

    As for Bawa, judge if you want, but he played under 100 minutes last season. He really hasn’t had much chance to prove himself.

  21. You’re right. Its never that simple but I hate Kentucky. I honestly always thought that the UK fans ran off a pretty good coach there. But to compare him to Knight is a stretch even for you Casey. I just can’t allow myself to agree with or endorse anyone associated with the UK program. Which is why I rag on him. But I will concede Tubby was a good coach at UK but I think Minnesota is a different story.

  22. I don’t base my judgement off only the rankings. That is just one part of the puzzle.
    Why are you expecting rebounding out of Michel when he was a below average rebounder for Centers in Juco. You think he is miraculously going to become a better rebounder in the Big10?
    For Bawa, there is a reason he hasn’t been give a chance. He is not any good.
    For Tubby, I never said anything about his past on the court performance. I said his judgement has come into question. Williams, White, and Mbakwe as very recent examples.

  23. JB,

    Just to be clear, Knight is obviously a significantly better and more historic coach than Smith has been or ever will be. My point was that, even the best coaches move on to lesser programs, and it’s not always due to the fact that they aren’t good coaches.

    I think Tubby has done a respectable job at Minnesota thus far — two tournament trips in the last two years. At the same time, I don’t ever see Minnesota becoming a Big Ten powerhouse.

    All that aside — it never stopped me from heckling him relentlessly at games.

    My whole point in all of this is that Noreen is by no means a sure-fire college stud. He probably would’ve done himself a lot of good by transferring to a school in a higher class and showing he can compete with top talent consistently. He might be good, and might not — but he’s not coming here, and I think we should at least reserve judgment on Michel until he has a chance to show us something.

    4guards has apparently seen all he needs to see (although I think there’s ONE under-two-minute clip of Michel online), but I’d like to see him in a game first. HE is the one we know will be putting on an IU uniform, so why not support him?

  24. At this point we have no choice but to give him a chance. I hope he suprises me and a few others this november. My main concern was that we cancelled the Noreen visit when we could’ve waited another week and to me it looked like we were humoring McClain by signing this guy. I agree that neither Noreen or Guy is a “sure-fire” B10 stud but IMO Noreen has a better chance.

  25. 4guards,

    You’re right — rankings are only one part of the puzzle. As are a player’s inflated high school statistics from a season of Class A Minnesota ball.

    7+ rebounds per every 20 minutes is not below average. That translates to over 14 rebounds per 40 mins. The scouting reports on him (that you’ve apparently read) say he has good rebounding ability. And yes, I do expect him to get better, as players often do from year to year.

    The Bawa situation will work itself out. I believe he’ll either show enough improvement to warrant playing time, or transfer out to a smaller program once it becomes apparent that he’s not going to be seeing any time.

    And as far as Tubby’s judgment, perhaps you can call his judgment of character into question. But we’re discussing his ability to assess talent in reference to Noreen (whom he will pass on). Mbakwe was a 4-star recruit, and the 30th ranked power forward in his class. White was a four-star recruit, and ranked 10th at his position.

  26. Don’t give me that per 40 minute crap. He averaged 7 rebounds a game. Every kid in America would have higher numbers if you did the per 40 min nonsense. There is a reason he was only playing 20 min a game.

  27. First of all 4guards, what was that reason?

    Secondly, it’s not to say that he’s going to play 40 minutes. Using the 40-minute method is simply a way to standardize the statistical measurement (much like ERA in baseball) so we can see whether your claim that Michel was a “below average” JUCO rebounder actually carries any weight.

    I’m guessing here — but I’d bet that the majority of JUCO players would not have a 14 rebounds/40 mins average.

  28. I would guess there a lot of scrubs who barely play that would have some really good stats if you use the per 40 min nonsense.

  29. It’s the exact same concept as ERA in baseball. It can be useful in analyzing players who play any sort of significant minutes.

    Of course, some practice player who plays six minutes all year and happens to hit a three would then project 20 points per 40 minutes, but we’re talking about guys who are playing consistently.

    If Michel ends up starting, and plays 25 to 30 minutes, I’d guess his stat line at IU will look very similar to his line in JUCO. I wouldn’t mind adding 7 rpg and 3 bpg to our roster.

    I just want to give the kid a chance before we demolish him. Don’t you think that’s fair?

  30. Round 1 to Millport
    Round 2 to Casey

    4G is stubbling around the ring throwing wild punches in hope of a TKO.

  31. Um, not really…

    Jobe – 3.4 pts./5.1 reb per 40 min.
    Muniru – 6.9 pts./8.0 reb. per 40 min.

    Worse than and comparable to Michel’s per 20 min. numbers.

  32. Does it concern anyone that Guy’s numbers went down slightly his second year at the Juco level instead of way up?

  33. I hope he comes in and is all Big10, but I don’t think that will happen. I don’t blame the kid for coming here, I blame Crean for offering him.
    fwa,
    Jobe and Muniru are horrible, not really making a strong point, not to mention they were playing against Big10 competition and not at some JUCO in Idaho.

  34. doug,
    That will concern the logical fans, but not the Crean Apologists. It sure did concern Gonzaga, which is why they backed off.

  35. Michel’s ppg dropped by a little over a point per game. His rpg actually rose slightly… Both changes are pretty much statistically insignificant. It may be a red flag that he didn’t improve by leaps and bounds, but it doesn’t mean he’s reached his ceiling. What matters more to me is that he led his JUCO conference in blocked shots both seasons he played. Offense can be taught, post moves can be taught, rebounding positioning can be taught, but the timing necessary to be a good shot blocker is often one of the most difficult talents to develop.

  36. Perhaps what I’m about to do is a bad idea, and if this goes horrendously bad, I won’t ever do it again.
    But I’m kind of intrigued by this argument and I want to see where it goes if I frame it as follows.
    Let’s first, of course, grant the point that none of us have ever seen either one of these two players and all arguments are based on stats, words of other people, and deductive reasoning based on years of watching other players. None of us has a concrete clue about what we’re talking about and we could all easily be proven wrong.
    But I think anyone who has read about these two players would deduce that Noreen is clearly the more polished and therefore more universally desirable player. He’s 6-10, can shoot, pass, handle, and by all accounts has an incredible basketball IQ. Weaknesses granted (skinny frame, mostly weak competition although his school scheduled up) but he obviously played well enough in AAU to earn interest from all of these places. That being said, Guy-Marc Michel would appear to fill a more immediate need at center for Indiana, which has two 3/4 forward types in Christian Watford and Derek Elston already on the roster. Beyond that, also, is the scholarship situation and the recruitment of Cody Zeller, who could reasonably project as either a power forward or a center depending on his physical development and your point of view.
    For the sake of argument, let’s call it a given that Michel will be serviceable, no more, no less. Would you rather Indiana have added a) Noreen b) Michel or c) neither? Discuss.

  37. 4guards, I simply pointed out that your point about there being a lot of scrubs that barely play have some REALLY GOOD stats using per 40 minute numbers. I just used two IU scrubs to show that’s not necessarily true.

  38. I would’ve went with Noreen or nobody. I don’t think you need the typical 5 in Crean’s system. I would also think Noreen has more potential.

  39. A Noreen “the more universally desirable player”
    4 star , top 100 recruit
    40 pts and 17 rbs a game
    Over 4,000 career points which shattered all-time record

  40. DD, I’d say neither. I don’t think either one will be or would have been a game changer next year. I think the scholly would have been better used next year…and would have kept the scholly situation cleaner despite the fact everyone is convince “it will work itself out either way”.

    BTW, 4,000 career points is entirely deceiving because the kid played varsity ball starting in 7th grade, which is apparently allowed in MN.

  41. Where did obectivity go?

    “For the argument, let’s call it a given that Michel will be serviceable, no more, no less.”

    I guess we know what you think Dustin.

  42. Is it just me, or does 4guards tone grow exceedingly aggravated and hostile sounding? Didn’t 4guards claim to be in sales? How would you like your garlic breath salesperson inserting hot-headed blurbs of “crap” and surly sips of cynical “Kool-Aid” in your face while attempting to keep your sweet loyal attention to a product he/she is truly believing and passionate? Does anger sell anything? Does it sell an opinion?

    Wonder if he’s married?….

    “I love you, you ugly bitch..Now go put some makeup on..Where did you get that JUCO skimpy outfit? Victoria who? Makes you look like a cheap whore…If you only were as skilled as cheap whore!..When’s the last time you put up good numbers upstairs? Let’s break out the stats..Look at March! You wore the granny flannels…The numbers don’t lie…Remember the fishing trip to Lake of the Woods we went on last summer? It’s right here on my 4guards.com Wife Stats..I took you to Lake of the Woods and you actually put up much better numbers than in the French JUCO negligee..My name’s not Victoria, and you may think it’s a secret, but you’re a 5-star in flannel and 3-star in a slinky nightie. What? I’m thinking of someone else? You’ve never owned any fine French negligee?…It was only that sleazy costume I bought you for Valentine’s Day? BULL! You’re a liar! We’re you into the Kool-Aid again? Put on those damn soft flannels that make me think of a firm Bobby Knight wearing his tartan plaid jacket and get your ugly crap upstairs…I love you, my darling….I’ll start singing the fight song…Indiana, Our Indiana…Indiana we’re all for you…”

  43. b or C

    We need schollies for 2012….that is a class that can put us back in the top tier of college basketball.

  44. Everybody knows Noreen in the better player. The Crean apologists are the ones with no objectivity because they are constantly trying to find a way to spin this signing into something positive…hence “just give the guy a chance”, i mean who are we to judge?? Crean knows best. No one thinks this guy is gonna make an actual difference. I haven’t heard anybody really excited that he’s coming. He probably won’t even play. Just another Minuru on the bench.

  45. Dustin,

    I think you more concisely summed up the core of what I was attempting to point out (albeit in a more animated and silly way).

    Noreen is obviously a more polished player, but what TYPE of player is he? He’d most likely end up competing with Watfor and Elston for time. I know he’s 6’10”, but I just don’t have faith that his skinny frame would allow him to be a dominant center presence (at least not in his first year or two). So, all we’d be doing is adding a last-minute player who, while obviously polished, would endure the same growing pains Watford did last year, and wouldn’t be filling an immediate hole on our squad.

    Meanwhile, Michel – who clearly doesn’t have the numbers or notoriety of Noreen – can at least, in theory, come in and take up space in the middle, change opponents’ shots, rebound, block shots and provide a deterrent for opposing players to drive the lane. Those are all things the team needs, so while he’s certainly not as “good” as Noreen, I feel he’s a more appropriate fit.

    I feel like with Noreen, a lot of fans are in the “want what you can’t have” mentality. We didn’t pick this guy up when we may have had a chance, and therefore it’s now seen as a mistake. Had we signed him earlier, I feel like there would’ve been an equal contingent of fans complaining that we simply signed a less talented version of Watford.

    I’d probably rather we’d just banked the scholarship, but at the same time, Crean needs to start winning as soon as possible. It’s understandable why he hasn’t elected to just sit on his hands. Between the two, it’s close, but I feel like Michel, because of his physical stature and focus on defense, fills a hole that Noreen wouldn’t be filling.

  46. JB,

    You really don’t think it’s reasonable to give a new recruit a chance to actually play a few games before declaring he’s a wasted scholarship?

    That’s not apologism, that’s just being fair. It’s fine to be skeptical, but why declare this kid a horrible player before you ever see how he fits into our overall system?

    He’s certainly not a marquee recruit, but if he fills a defensive role that allows our skill players to settle into their own roles and focus on their own tasks with more ease, then overall, he helps our team.

  47. Casey –

    Look I’m gonna give the kid a chance. Like I said before I hope he suprises me. But if I’m gonna give my opinion on a blog during the offseason then I have to go off the info at hand. I really have no idea how it will turn out. But if I had to make the call to sign or not to sign… I would’ve passed on Guy. Like I keep saying, I just can’t believe we cancelled the Noreen visit like we did. Why couldn’t Crean just give Noreen a CHANCE? Its not enough just to have an upgrade over Jobe or Minuru to me. That is not success. I guess you and thousands of other fans can be glad I’m not the coach.

  48. OK, Millport, you’re right. Perhaps I did go a little too far there. I don’t want to sell Michel out before I see him and there are arguments out there that I’ve done that already. I’m just trying to construct givens for an argument for which there can’t be givens to end the round and round of “He sucks,” vs. “No, he doesn’t.” Because again, no one has a real clue because they play in Idaho and Minnesota. My point is that the word from the supporters of this signing is that this guy is not a project on the level of Bawa or Tijan. But I don’t hear anyone calling him the second coming of Olajuwon either. So let’s split the difference and call him a serviceable center and call Kevin Noreen a skilled but skinny forward. With Indiana’s scholarship situation and preexisting roster, plus the recruiting targets for the Classes of 2011 and 2012, would you take the skilled but skinny forward, the serviceable center, or the open scholarship?

  49. I think you go with the choice of your coach. Maybe it’s just the product of the internet, the era of stars and rankings, journalists attempting to legitimize their expertise by way of their own blogging sites, cynicism, immediate gratification…etc…etc..etc

    I simply don’t remember this kind of second-guessing from days past. Knight had more than his share of recruits that didn’t pan out. This is nothing more than an attempt by 4guards to turn this recruit into another one of the many crosses he’ll erect to crucify Tom Crean…We all know this kid doesn’t stack up to Noreen on paper. I find it refreshing that our HC is willing to trust his instincts and sometimes go against the grain of conventional wisdom..It doesn’t take much of a intellectual leap to know 4guard’s will go to any length to bash our coach..Will this be the first recruit to ever surprise? I heard a team of ESPN experts last night tell the world that Orlando would fold up the tent and be swept by Boston. Experts can be wrong. They can be wrong concerning favored short-term predictions and wrong when it comes to identifying unexpected long-term potential. Disingenuous motives can often be put into a most convincing song..It is this blogger’s opinion that journalists should be removed from defeating a team, or an individual, before a tip-off even tossed into air..And they should certainly try their damnedest from biting on tasteless worms of ill intent.

    Our coach has made his decision. Can we give Guy a chance to put on his sneakers for one practice..one scrimmage..one game?

  50. I don’t think anyone critical of the Guy signing is going to stop being an IU fan. Most of us are fans because we grew up rooting for IU and that is who we are. True Hoosier fans will stick with the program regardless of wins or losses. See our current situation and the support this program recieves. Maybe it is the “age of the internet” but what is wrong with blogging your opinion be it good or bad? I guess before the internet we’d probably be down at the bar having these kinds of spirited discussions. Many Hoosier fans disagreed with the way Bobby did things but they weren’t lesser fans…they just disagreed with how things were done. The same could be said for Davis and obviously Sampson, although there are probably still some fans out there who believe it was just phone calls…what was the big deal? My point is you can be a Hoosier fan willing to give the team or in this case player a chance and still be a loyal fan.

  51. I would take Michel. Assuming that he is a serviceable player.
    When Joe Tiller became the head football coach at Purdue he was quoted as saying that his offense was basketball on grass. Well, Big Ten basketball is football on the hardcourt.
    After watching Big Ten athletics for over 50 years I have witnessed many surprises but few have been skinny 6’10” basketball players. I really don’t worry too much about Noreen being from the smallest division in Minnesota high school basketball. I certainly don’t care that Minnesota is not basketball heaven.
    Everyone has written off Muniru. What was his ranking coming out of high/prep school? Under ideal circumstances Crean probably would have red-shirted Muniru. These are not ideal times for IU. If Crean had opted for Noreen over Michel, does anyone feel he could have red-shirted him? My guess is no.
    Dustin, my earlier remark was not really aimed at you. Your response was what I hoped for.
    Sorry to bore you.

  52. JaJuan Johnson 6’10 215 lbs (ESPN)
    Kevin Noreen 6’10 217 lbs (Rivals)

    I think Johnson has been ok in the Big 10.

  53. I think most regular viewers of Big 10 basketball have witnessed firsthand the mobility and athleticism of JaJuan Johnson..I think Huksy Tom got a good taste of it while watching him keep pace against the very up-and-down style of play his Huskies from Washington in the 2009 NCAA tournament ..I haven’t seen the kid from Minnesota do a damn thing yet..Have any of us? So now 4guards can take this proportionally sized dork of choice that probably couldn’t make a North Central HS intramural team and claim him to be the athletically skilled equivalent of JaJuan Johnson?

    What a surprise from a guy favoring Cody Zeller over Branden Dawson.

  54. Terry- Right on point once again. Tards loves the lanky, dorky, bony, home-grown Hoosiers more than anything, both as coaches and as players.

    This says it all…

  55. ^^^funny clip.

    Looks like UCLA landed the Wear brothers…O brother, Wear art thou…?..Husky Pac 10 championship?

  56. I don’t think that the Wear brothers pose a threat to UW’s Pac 10 ambitions. By the way, that pic is a classic that I remember you using before – do you remember in what context? I think it was when we were having the famous “scrappy, gritty players vs. bassmobile-driving 5-star thugs” debate. Or maybe it was elsewhere.

  57. “Everybody knows Noreen in (is) the better player”

    Truly the lunkhead comment of the thread. YOU and the TARD are of the opinion he is. That’s it. People that get paid millions of dollars to make that decision think you are wrong.
    What a stupid comment.

  58. Did someone just compare Johnson to Noreen and assume Noreen would do well because he is similar in size????

    Some of you guys crack me up. I think Bawa was the 17th best 5 man in the nation in his last ranking if I remember right. It is obvious he has athletic ability and can run the floor well, he can jump, his timing is good, and he can score. He gets the raw end because we did not see him play more. Jobe was as bad an IU player as I have seen. Sure he is a great guy but no court awareness and was a step slow on everything and that is what killed him in the end. All that said, being a Juco guy myself I know how loaded the rosters can be, how great the competition, and how awful the coaching is. I don’t go and check these things like some but I am willing to bet there were some scorers on Guy’s team and maybe even another good big man or two. I will give him the benefit of the doubt until I see him play. If Bawa is bad this year and Guy does not look any better I will wonder about Crean’s eye for big man talent. Until then it is a closed book for me.

  59. Byfuglien-

    How ’bout them Blackhawks!…I must confess that I haven’t followed hockey for many years. Didn’t recognize the name…I think you used a Hawk in another one of your posts…? There was a day I followed every Chicago sports team..(except the Sox)… tried to watch everything..The significant other in my life has zero desire to watch any sports. My diet has been severely restricted the last few years. It’s some kind of strange hormonal equation..Soon the frequency of sports viewing dwindles down to frequency of sex…Once you hit your mid-sixties, I hear sports begins to pick up again..I don’t want to think about the other half the future math problem…I’m just thankful to have still escaped the inevitable fate I fear…I still have enough manhood to bust out of my puppet strings and catch an entire IU basketball game. Blogging is made to look like infidelity. I am one cheating bastard.

    Speaking of cheating bastard….After all our heartfelt blogging exchanges and self-disclosures, I never realized you were married until reading one of your entries today. It hit me rather hard..Surprised you had never confided in me a devoted partner…Guess it was my absence a PhD in Rock ‘n’ Roll from Purdue…I had always held out hope we had a shot something.

  60. Hehe…funny stuff there…

    Chicago is really going apes at the moment for the Blackhawks; it’s fun. I can’t help but get swept up in it.

    My wife is the same way about sports; sometimes I have to watch them clandestinely, sneaking peaks every now and then. She likes hockey, though, being a Canuck herself, so I can watch guilt-free…

  61. Husky,

    Chicago’s got hockey fever right now. Even the most casual of sports fans is tuning in at this point. It’s great to see.

    Hockey — especially of the playoff variety — is generally unappreciated, but in my opinion, displays an unparalleled level of intensity and dedication on the players’ behalf. See: Duncan Keith’s seven missing teeth.

    I think we match up well vs. Philly. Our speed and depth will serve us well.

  62. Casey- Agreed. Hockey is unappreciated for the most part outside of Canada and the “original six” NHL cities. The NHL should have never moved its franchises out of these areas and other Northern areas; it is fitting to see the other shoe finally fall in places like Phoenix and Florida.

    I am thrilled to see such a classic matchup for the Cup. Byfuglien has been incredible and Niemi has caught fire at the right time. I love seeing everyone get behind the team. The other day I was at Yogi’s for a game and the place was packed with Hawks fans.

  63. It’s just hard not to like the guys on this team.

    Bolland has quietly been doing a lot of small things right (not to mention, scoring two breakaway shorthanded goals in these playoffs).

    Toews and Kane + Byfuglien are absolutely unstoppable, and all of a sudden Niemi is a big-time goalie.

    It’s funny — as little as three or years ago, the Hawks found themselves near the bottom of the league, in the midst of a “rebuilding process” thanks to poor management and apathy. Now, they’re model for how to build a team — with many different types of players all filling a role and representing their team and city with pride, hard work and dignity.

    I hope we can look back at IU three years from now and marvel, much like we do with the Hawks, at how far they’ve come in such a short time, and how unfathomable it is to believe they were ever at such a low point.


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    “the smug look of a toad breakfasting on fat marsh flies” (William Pearson).

    It was a hard choice..’SMUG’ vs. ‘SMALL’. I went with smug. It was the word I felt most befitting the current aftertaste left in my mouth when I read most of the comments on Scoop.

    Even when I read posts that appear to be cordial and of a complimentary nature, the smug residue still comes through. The aura left by the thick bullsh$$ on nearly every thread makes me prefer the steady bashing of negativism from the domineering 4guards over the vainglorious tone of condescension coming from the rest.

    Is the premise a free thought aboard this blogging ship the chests of coins equating the years accumulated lard on the butts of an idle worm pumping money into the education of their bottomless ego pits? If so, then I shall tell you this ship need find port soon, for the lifeboats a humble thought already long sent adrift and the ocean of humility is overtaking her decks.
    Unforgiving is the dark bottom making home to the abundant barrels of wine toasted once upon the bragging thirst a journey across the Grandiose Sea. Can you hear them calling from the floor uncorked?

  65. ^^^Have a little fun with it and read that last paragraph in a pirate’s voice, mateys.

  66. Even when I read posts that appear to be cordial and of a complimentary nature, the smug residue still comes through. The aura left by the thick bullsh$$ on nearly every thread makes me prefer the steady bashing of negativism from the domineering 4guards over the vainglorious tone of condescension coming from the rest.

    Is the premise a free thought aboard this blogging ship the chests of coins equating the years accumulated lard on the butts of an idle worm pumping money into the education of their bottomless ego pits? If so, then I shall tell you this ship need find port soon, for the lifeboats a humble thought already long sent adrift and the ocean of humility is overtaking her decks.

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  67. What is Jeff Howard going to bring to the bench next season? Has anybody on here watched him play that much?

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