1. will this spell death penalty for the football program? this isn’t the first problem with the football program as a whole. i know it takes a lot for the ncaa to lay down the death penalty on a particular program, like it did with SMU and Kentucky back in the day. historic, storied program, but i can’t see the ncaa not stepping in with some incredible penalties levied against The U.

  2. Dustin,

    there are a lot of moving parts within what is going on. I’m from Miami and grew up a canes fan. What some mods are saying is that since compliance has been going on for about a year and there has been a complete overhaul of the athletic dept. two new ADs, two football coaches and one new basketball coach it won’t be as bad as it could be had the present heads of the athletic department been here during all of this. Larranaga (basketball), Golden (football) and Eichorst (AD) are all on the job less than a year. Look to have guys ruled ineligible for the year similar to UNC, will post more info once it comes out.

  3. to edit above comment, i think there will be harsher penalties than ruling guys currently playing that were listed as being ineligible. Was just passing along info from Canes boards.

  4. I am shocked, shocked I tell you, that Miami could be involved in this type of thing.
    MiamiHoosier, I don’t question a single thing you are saying. I believe the term that the NCAA uses is, “lack of institutional control”, or something of that nature. For the past 30 years, at least by what we have seen reported, Miami has been flirting with the edges of that description. I hope it is not as bad as it looks. I understand that people always assume the worst about Miami, but there is a reason why that attitude has become pervasive.

  5. This just shows how rediculous the NCAA as an institution is. As someone who has grown up in Bloomington, and is also a hard core USC fan, I have witness the full force of the NCAA in the past couple years. Though I personaly have nothing against Miami, I would think that this outragious of a situation could even call for the “death penalty.” I mean, if USC got that harsh of sanctions because there was one photo (which was determined to be inconclusive on whether or not it was edited) that showed the person who’d payed Bush with an assistant coach, then just imagine what the penalty should be for an entire team of players recieving benefits of relatively the same amount.

    And for a second thought, Paul Dee should be fired from his current position and be black listed for the NCAA. Absolutely rediculous that they have people like that in charge.

  6. Chet,

    totally agree. The one big issue that people (UM fans) is that under Randy Shannon, the amount of scrutiny he had with his players’ every waking move was ridiculous. If you screwed up the slightest bit (i’m talking wearing a hat in class or any building) you were in his dog house for a LONG time. He alienated former players, he wanted nothing to do with Shapiro. The big question comes from how much did the former administration know. By former admins i mean the two previous ADs and three coaches reference or there during the times of these allegations. I know for a fact that Shapiro donated $150,000 at one point to the U, but failed to make good on his promise and they removed his name from the players lounge in the athletic building. There is a lot to be made of this. THe allegations are potentially devastating for the program, far worse than the pell grant scandal in the early 1990’s. Ironic as it is Butch Davis is the one who cleaned the program up then. Very disappointing, and as I mentioned, whatever comes out on boards or through the back channels that I can divulge, I will post here.

  7. Miami Hoosier, “…it won’t be as bad as it could be …”.

    Lord, they may not even offer to wet their heads before the electrocution. Miami has been down this road before…not once but repeated times. I particularly like the picture of the now criminal ‘booster’, the basketball coach and former Clinton cabinet member now U. of Miami President Donna Shalala holding while salivating over a check donated by the ‘U’ booster involved. In all truth, they should close the university and throw President Shalalah and all other administrators in the Gulf of Mexico:

    I quote from a letter that appeared in SI addressed to U. of Miami’s President Foote after the 1985 chapter of many, many rounds the ‘U’ had with NCAA rules, criminal allegations, predatory behavior, drug use and trafficking, sexual intimidation and out and out thuggery.
    It read, it read, in part, “…[F]or all its victories, Miami football has been worse in more ways over a longer period of time than any other intercollegiate athletic program in memory. Scan the list of abuses that beset college sports, and your football team can claim, going back to 1980, at least one entry in virtually every category: improper benefits; recruiting violations; boosters run amok; academic cheating; use of steroids and recreational drugs; suppressed or ignored positive tests for drugs; player run-ins with other students as well as with campus and off-campus police; the discharge of weapons and the degradation of women in the football dorm; credit-card fraud and telephone credit-card fraud….[the] school enrolled and suited up at least one player who had scored a 200 on his verbal SAT—the number you get for spelling your name correctly. An on-campus disturbance, involving some 40 members of the football team, required 14 squad cars and a police dog to quell…”

    I love the part that follows:

    “Fifty-seven players were implicated in a financial-aid scandal that the feds call ‘perhaps the largest centralized fraud upon the federal Pell Grant program ever committed.'” And among numerous cases of improper payments to players from agents was one in which the nondelivery of a promised installment led a Hurricane player to barge into an agent’s office and put a gun to his head.”

    The Feds. The United States government. That’s who they scammed for scholarship aid. What do they think they are at the ‘U’, senators?…congressmen?

    If the NCAA does not shut the ‘U’ down forever with this one, the NCAA would be merely allowing its own internal corruption to rule.

    Now, I ask…how long before we see the first letter from some idiot wondering if we should try to recruit some of the athletes left on the street at the ‘U’ and wondering how much eligibility they have left?

  8. in adding to Shapiro;s donation, once the school found out about the ponzi scheme the money was returned.

  9. Tsao,

    the U will not be shut down, I’m sorry; it won’t happen. And whatever I am putting here isn’t personal opinion, its what mods and people close to the situation feel about everything going on. It’s very fluid.

  10. Miami Hoosier, the only fluidity I see is the slime flowing between the toilet and the ‘U’ administration and its name. Sad because U. of Miami graduates will have to carry that name on their framed degrees, but as an institution, it’s been a cesspool for forty years.

    To wit: The Miami Herald of May 18 [1995]reported that the paper’s reporters [did the math]…” No fewer than one of every seven scholarship players on last season’s team has been arrested while enrolled at your university. No wonder running back Melvin Bratton, a Hurricane… when asked what students thought of the team’s rap sheet, said, ‘They’re too scared to say anything to us,’ said Bratton.”

    In fact, a joke was that the ‘U’s athletic publicity office used to …take the team picture from both the front and the side;…[and that] the Hurricanes topped every poll from UPI to MCI to the FBI’s”

    in 1992 [Miami] authorities shut down a Hurricane hangout, Luke’s, a club owned by 2 Live Crew rapper and Miami supporter Luther Campbell,who was described by many as ‘the real Athletic Director’. An academic counselor at the athletic department was caught distributing more than $150, 000 to buy drugs for 50 student-athletes; and another academic counselor frequently using and distributing to ‘Canes.

    Hard to believe, but this bucket of sewage makes Kelvin Sampson resemble a 9-year-old alto on the church choir. I do feel bad for you in the sense that, as I am vested in what goes on in Hoosier country you must be in your own home town. I do feel better that you at least got out and on your wall you have a name of a real University that has not defecated on its own integrity.

    Keep believing in IU. You’ve got friends here.

  11. DD, glad you ran it. When I first read the story, I wondered if it would be mentioned here in its original form. Great you did so. It makes for some great and important reading about how amuck we can go over intercollegiate athletics.

    And, a great example of great investigatory journalism. The description of how carefully they reviewed, checked and rechecked the documents and math is really worthy of praise.

  12. okay off topic, but can Hanner go directly to the NBA after his high school years? Just wondering, i know they have a new agreement or something.

  13. If this school doesn’t get the death penalty, will anybody ever get it?

    The “U” should be torn apart by the NCAA.

  14. From “Mike & Mike” on ESPN – People that lost money to Shapiro’s Ponzi scheme are exploring the possibility of a lawsuit against the players that accepted money from Shapiro to have that money paid back to them, plus punitive damages.

  15. Anyone with a brain for College Football for the last 30+ years knows Miami has been very dirty in regards to following the NCAA rules. And we’ve all heard of and seen the proverbial sh*t Miami has done over the years get deeper and deeper. So, the fact that it’s gotten this deep doesn’t surprise me at all. Miami has never been accused of being a remotely close to clean program which is one reason I have always hated them and wished the worst on them.

    To me they should at least have all the records from the last 10 or 11 years wiped off the books and should be hammered scholarship wise losing at least 25 to 40 for the next 10 years or so since they are willfully repeat offenders. Basically, Miami needs to be punished for the past and hurt deeply of any chance at success for at least a decade or more to match their own arrogance to skit the rules for years. Basically, the NCAA should think to themselves: “Payback is going to be a real bi*ch!”

  16. TTG mentioned it 1st, Donna Shalala has been the Prez since 2001. So much for respected, experienced leadership enjoying the social life and the status quo. Academia rots under this style of leadership. And some want the NCAA to OK paying cash to scholarship athletes. Keep digging the hole deeper. The culture of entitlement growing in our society has challenged the original mission of a scholarship from one of help to attain an education vs todays idea that everything else should be free also.

  17. This may be even more than what goes on down south of here in Kantuckee, WOW,… but then again Calipayoff is the CEO down there, has his own obvious tainted past and has had his own big name rapper in the locker room. Similarities, I think so, and these are the only the ones that everyone knows about.

    I echo what Hoosier Clarion so correctly stated. Most of these kids have been told, and felt like, they are above everyone else and then programs like these two only serve to falsely assure them that they are completely correct in that train of thought.

  18. Obviously, Miami is going to be hit really hard by all of this, but I am interested in Miami Hoosiers’ words and that part of the story will affect the punishment. The story as it was generally presented nationally is that Miami was an absolute madhouse beginning with Schnellenberger and Johnson, got major sanctions in the Mid-90s, then cleaned up under Butch Davis. This obviously shows that things were bad under Coker. But again, the story was that Shannon was super strict. And in the Yahoo! story, it talks about Shapiro confronting the compliance chief at Miami, because I’m assuming he felt the rules he was enforcing were part of the reason the program fell off. If they find out Shannon and his regime did everything they possibly cut this stuff off, I wonder how hard they’ll hit a program for sins (horrendous ones) committed two regimes ago. There will be lots of major violations, no doubt, but I think Miami Hoosier is probably right when he says that will keep Miami from getting the death penalty.
    Also, Tsao, you’re right. This is one of the most amazing pieces of investigative sports journalism that I’ve seen in my lifetime. Just stellar.
    I wonder if Miami is the sort of program that can ever be well policed, just based on the socio-demographics of the place. In a lot of cases they’re dealing with kids from extreme poverty, but they’re also surrounded by places with a lot of money and a lot of vanity. Granted, I’ve never been to Miami and much of my understanding of the place comes from watching Burn Notice (awesome show) but it strikes me as the sort of town that will always have another Nevin Shapiro and will always have a lot of places where a young man can get himself into trouble. I mean think about it. In most college towns, you only have about two streets worth of bars to worry about. I think if you picked up any Division I athletic department right now and moved it to Miami (or L.A. for that matter) your problems would multiply by factors of 10 in seconds.

  19. Let’s all realize that this is the exact type of situation that Mike Fish tried to uncover at IU.

    He spent months and months (not unlike the Yahoo reporter(s) involved.

    And he found nothing.

    That’s almost comforting to me now, since ESPN, or at least the “reporter”, obviously were hoping to find and have blow up nationally. And we’ve seen what that kind of specific investigative reporting can uncover. And nothing like that was found at IU. Nothing.

  20. Sorry for the grammar errors there. Didn’t mean to hit submit that quickly. Hopefully my point is still recognizable.

  21. @Dustin: I’m little confused on this statement: “I wonder how hard they’ll hit a program for sins (horrendous ones) committed two regimes ago.” Why? How can you say 2 regimes ago when the booster says this went on until just last year in the article? Also with Marve, (Randy Shannon) being implicated who is now at Purdue. This is not 2 regimes ago, these violations are recent and sustained and that, to me, is what makes the current team fair game. The new team and staff is always hammered in these situations and are the ones who truly pay the price. Just like Tom Crean here, as will Luke Fickell at Ohio St. being a couple of recent examples. If ever a University deserved a death penalty Miami is it.

    Also, “I wonder if Miami is the sort of program that can ever be well policed, just based on the socio-demographics of the place. In a lot of cases they’re dealing with kids from extreme poverty, but they’re also surrounded by places with a lot of money and a lot of vanity.”, this statement to me from a coaching staff standpoint is pretty obvious within the words you wrote. If kids are dirt poor and their spending time on Yachts, at fancy clubs, NBA games, etc… Seems to me that’s pretty obvious for a coach to have probable cause for immediately investigating. However, to your credit, that coach has to be honorable and as the article states, a lot them weren’t. But, what about the head of compliance at the University? I assume if they are doing their job then some of these things would pop out to them, as well. True, around 105 to 125 kids can’t be policed all the time. But it only takes someone to notice a couple or so to get the investigative ball rolling. And what usually happens, just like with Tressel, in the end it comes out that the head coach knew about it, but really didn’t do much about it.

  22. Mike W,
    Obviously, there was still some wrongdoing going on, but it’s possible that this coaching staff was less complicit, it was less rampant and this went on despite their best attempts to stop it. Again, I’m not saying Miami won’t get hit very, very hard for this. This will be far worse than what Ohio State gets, what Indiana got, and probably what USC got. Heads will roll for sure. The question everyone’s asking is if the NCAA will bring back the Death Penalty for this, and I honestly don’t think they will.
    My bigger point is that in Miami, it’s harder to know if your kids are actually in those fancy clubs. If a football player does something dumb in a bar in Bloomington, that news doesn’t have to travel very far. In Miami, we’re talking about a lot more people, a lot more clubs, a lot more yachts. Not defending anybody, and again, not saying they won’t get hit hard. Just saying there’s a lot more to handle in Miami than there is in Bloomington.

  23. Jayrig5, I hope to God you are right…but do not rest your fears until everything is investigated as carefully as Mr. Robinson did his job.

    So far the lesson to be learned is about the role of people outside the direct control of the University. Shapiro was scum and the University officials knew it. Yet he did what he wanted to do, corrupted who he wanted to corrupt and spread his virus to an entire university.

    I am really concerned about summer basketball, the influence of the adults, the manipulation involved, the ‘helping’ hand for those who have little except talent to jump up and down or run fast, the enabling environment we create about junior high and high school kids…all of it is as lethal as rasin poison and guess what…we see evidence of this everywhere, even here.

    The Perea and Durkin cases are two that come to mind. I really don’t think that anyone, least of all Hanner and the Durkin kid (sorry, do not have his first name)believes they are on their way to being ‘U’ type kids or their ‘adult coaches and sponsors gnats like Shapiro…but giving him anything of intrinsic value (i.e. an old computer, a trip home, a little extra cash when they play in Vegas…come on, you can’t push the toothpaste back into the tube).

    Of course I’m happy that Hanner left Colombia and is getting a great chance at life here. Even more so in the case of Durkin. Have you seen the pictures of little kids in Somalia and the rest of the Horn of Africa…I can’t believe we can sleep at night.

    We should help where we can help, but don’t serenade me with the fact that 7 footers are somehow more entitled to kindness or that a kid has a 50 inch take-off entitles him to eat more regularly.

    And, remember…the beginning of entitlement and corruption begins with the corrupt foundation we create as intercollegiate athletics.

    One last thing. Want a nightmare? Why is it so damn hard for IU’s Athletic Department to be more transparent? Why is the media regularly denied access to its officials and financial records? Why do events have to be spun by nearly a million dollars worth of ‘public information experts’? Why is Glass so unavailable? Open it up! There should be no secrets. How are the contracts let for stadiums and baseball fields? Who is selling us the equipment for the weight room? Was it bid? Do we get to audit the money spent on prospects during their visits here? How much do we give the IU athletes hosting them? Why is the athletic department so out-of-bounds for information?

    I love IU…I have for 50 years…in a fair game, I’d rip and tear my skin out in layers going for the ball; but I would turn my back on it (and damn near did during the Greenspan/Sampson clogged sewer period).

    Yes, Fish tried to find equally corrupt practices and so far nothing is conclusive. I, for one, expect every detail to be explained. (Still waiting for proof of guardianship with Hanner and I will not drop it).
    (By the way, I have been in Colombia and it makes me feel good that this Colombian kid can become a big name in our Hoosier history. I’d also tear someones throat out in a second if they brought him here to corrupt him).

    I’m from Indiana University! a Hoosier!

  24. Miami is a different kind of place than most cities with major universities.
    The surgeon that has, all to often, tried to repair my repeatedly unsuccessful acts of gravity defiance, is a graduate of the University of Miami School of Medicine. He’s a brilliant surgeon and a better man. After graduation he worked at Jackson Memorial in Miami. He’s told me stories of being assaulted in the hospital, including delivering a baby at gunpoint. He decided that Miami was hopeless and there was no way he felt his family could be safe. It was time to go and he never looked back. He said he doesn’t even visit. Fortunately for me, he relocated here.

    Coincidentally, his son, Brian, is now Chief of Orthopaedic Trauma Surgery for the IU Hospitals in Indianapolis. Small world.

  25. Dustin,

    What has been said as far as RAndy Shannon goes is that he warned his coaches and players that if they were near that guy they were fired/off the team. One thing Shannon did have were spies running around Miami trying to catch his guys in trouble. Obviously, this wasn’t the case as some of his guys he recruited were implicated in Nevin’s claims. Miami is facing severe penalties, I don’t see the death penalty because SEC schools are notorious for this (first hand knowledge from a friend who’s brother played in SEC). This guy wanted to be the big “baller” and mix in with the players and what not. He’s bitter, angry, and wants revenge for various things. One as i eluded to was Shannon not talking to the guy and also the school took down his name from the football players lounge as he “failed” to make good on his donation. He is being sued by many, many corporations for money he owes including the miami Heat for floor seats, 5 year commit for $1million a seat. As far as I know once Miami found out about what was going on, his donation money was returned.

    What I am more upset with as a lifelong miami fan is that the coaches implicated, Hurtt (louisville), Haith (basketball-Mizzou) and Stoutland (OL ‘bama) along with the former AD now at Texas Tech Kirby Hocutt get off with nothing while the school gets the ax. Miami fan base is very small, the true fan base and this could make the fan base even smaller if all comes out to be 100% true. Thanks for the words Tsung, follow IU athletics very closely as well. Will post more when more comes out guys.

  26. Miami,
    This doesn’t prove Shannon didn’t have spies, it just proves they weren’t successful. I guess that’s sort of my point. If Miami can show that Shannon made a point to try to stop players and coaches from hanging out with Shapiro, that he legitimately tried to monitor them away from the field and just couldn’t stop all there was to stop, that could help Miami’s cause. There appeared to be a lot less going on once Shannon took over and they might get points for that. Again, they aren’t avoiding a major penalty no how no way. They’ll forfeit everything from 2002 on. They’ll have postseason bans and lose lots of scholarships. Several people lose their jobs. But that alone might keep them from the death penalty.

  27. Dustin,

    The only current university official that may lose their job is Donna Shalala (School’s president). I say that bc the AD, basketball coach and football coach were not present when these allegations took place. I know there isn’t proof of Shannon’s spies, but it is a known fact that he did have these guys around the program and failed miserably. If you want to hear Nevin’s attorney (makes me sick how she was saying Nevin’s a victim of this) and others talk about this go to the following website; it’s a local sports talk radio network. Nevin’s attorney is Maria Elena Perez, the interview is on Joe Rose’s page, under the host tab; and the date is 8-17-11. Also of note of those interviewed, Dan Wetzel on Mike Irvin’s and Billy Corben (creator of the U and Cocaine Cowboys). Will post more later guys.

  28. I agree that Donna Shalala will probably lose her job because of the bad publicity but I’m not really sure where the convergence of the athletic department and the university president is. I suppose it falls under the ubiquitous “lack of institutional control” but, off the top of my head, I can’t think of other university presidents that went down for athletic department improprieties.

  29. Chet, I don’t know. Is it possible to shame a former member of Clinton’s White House staff?

    I’m not surprised by anything contained within this story. And I believe this represents the tip of the iceberg. I also suspect that this type of thing has and is going on in many of the top FB programs around the country. There’s always some short little rich dweeb that wants to be part of the in-crowd, so he buys his way in and strokes his ego by thinking his new friends like him because he’s a great guy. Shapiro was a pathetic wannabe and cretin.

    The only way to diminish the problem (it will never be eliminated) is to give “The U” the death penalty, just like SMU many years ago. But also, you have to ban any coach or administrator that knowingly participated in the violations (or turned a blind eye) from being employed by any other member of the NCAA, FOR LIFE! When a reasonable adult starts to weigh the long term consequences of certain behavior against the short term benefits, the survival instincts usually kick in and keep them in line. NCAA death penalty. Anything else is a joke.

  30. I’m the last guy to give a Clinton crony a pass. I’m sure she will be the fall guy, fair or not, I don’t care.
    I absolutely agree that there should be some “carryover”. Remember what happened to the SMU ‘culprits’ (in all fairness, I don’t remember the individuals, just the major players). Eric Dickerson went on to a record setting NFL career. Craig James went to a Super Bowl before his broadcasting career.
    Miami Hoosier, to quote another Clinton, I feel your pain. Seriously, I do. But I have to agree, and I think it is in Miami’s best interest, put the hammer down. Anything else will have people trying to skirt around the edges, and, if you love Miami, you don’t want that. Cleanse. Make it hurt. Start fresh. Be the example of a clean program. If you get a slap on the wrist, nothing will change.

  31. I agree, the death penalty is the only way to bring ANY integrity to the NCAA because most people believe that it is part of the problem rather than the solution to the abuse of its trust.

    Athletic departments administrators and coaches should fear for their reputations, careers and livelihood. Fans and alumni have to be monitored and handled with a bayonet,…quite simply…given their ego and the opportunity, they’ll cheat and corrupt one generation after another.

    And, university administrations need to stop using their ‘see no evil, hear no evil… We are scholars who live in the ivory tower’ excuse. Faculties often sound like the German towns near the death camps, they didn’t know…beginning with the Shalalas. No one believes them and that is the reason why they have been reduced to begging for money. For what??

    Only one way to get the point across; whack the ‘U’ with at least a big a jolt of electricity as SMU and Tulane received back in the day. In addition, the major violations by Ohio State and Tennessee (and several others) are just that, MAJOR. The NCAalso will and should be under the microscope.

    The NCAA staff in Indianapolis should know that it was also, at least, complicit as greed overcame integrity over the last twenty years and as its enforcement became lax and differential. The new NCAA President’s interview earlier this year (I believe on 60 minutes), as he assumed leadership, was disappointing and sounded more like a pitch by Bernie Madoff about the organization’s financial prospectus than that of an institution charged with protecting and defending the integrity of generations of competitive sports.

    If we’ve learned anything over the last two decades it is that the time has come for all our institutions to become accountable.

  32. There is a good article in the Indy Star about Purdue having to really think about whether to play Marve. Remember he transferred from Miami and was there while all of this was going on. Also, I think there needs to be some blame on the past administrations at the NCAA, in particular Brand. He was so focused on academics, which there is nothing wrong with that, and getting the athletes in class that I think he missed the opportunity to do something about this problem. There were several in the college community screaming for the NCAA to look at paying players during his tenure, but had tunnel vision and really only concentrated on the academic side of the equation.

  33. Podunker center punched it for sure. What if the death penalty was ordered for the south Florida program and after a few seasons proves not able to clean up the Miami culture influencing its college FB environment, what is the next action? Could it, should it be shut down? Not many other options to my thinking.

    Whatever has become of World Wide Wes?

  34. If you give the death penalty out to Miami, you will have to do it to other programs that do the same thing (SEC schools are next in line). The death penalty is not coming down on the school, severe sanctions; yes, but not the death penalty. below is what is being said from the moderator on one of the canes boards. He’s got plenty of contacts inside and does bring insight to the situation.
    the title was something along the lines of should miami get the death penalty…
    Coach Golden was asked the same thing by another national reporter today.

    People are so caught up in the sensational elements of this story that they are missing the core.

    There is a chance some players did go party with this guy. If they did, they will have to face whatever consequences that means. But you dont shut down a program because some jock-sniffing dude was able to exploit some kids who dont have any money in their pockets to even go to dinner at Benihana. If he was being instructed to do so by the AD and Head Coach then I think it would be a bigger problem.Obviously that is not the case.

    There will be some sanctions for not knowing this was going on or maybe having some people working in the building who knew. But it wont be a death penalty of any sort.

    So for media to be whipping up this whole death penalty scenario is really kind of silly

  35. HC;I suggest that if you give “The U” the death penalty and ban all coaches involved from working for an NCAA member for life, the Miami culture becomes irrelevant. The over-the-top Dallas culture became irrelevant after SMU football got “killed.”

    On the other hand, I think the NCAA should increase the amount of the scholarships so as to eliminate the typical BS excuses justifying why these young men take the “improper benefits.” After that, if a player is caught taking improper benefits, he’s banned from NCAA competition for life. It’s the carrot and the stick. Give them the carrot and say, “O.K., you get more money, but now, if we catch you cheating, your college athletic career is over.and your school will not be playing your sport for five years.”

    The solution to this problem is not complicated. The NCAA, like the rest of American society, just needs to get back to basics and apply severe punishment for major violations.

  36. I heard there is a picture of Donna Shalala being handed a check from that slimeball with a big grin on her face. Throw her to the wolves. That kind of judgement should be a career ender. I understand that universities almost never refuse donations but this guy wasn’t Warren Buffet or Bill Gates. For all she knew he could have been a contract killer.
    Most of us know Miami for their football but I know, in many circles, they are considered a top flight academic institution. Not MIT or Cornell (or Northwestern, for that matter) but a really good school. How can the alumni feel comfortable with that dichotomy? Just because they won football games can’t be enough, can it, to justify having a group of thugs strutting about campus? Don’t try the ‘they came from poor backgrounds’ argument. There’s nothing indicating they were getting money to pay Mom’s rent. If it were so, we’d be hearing about it. Wearing an $8000 watch doesn’t help Mom pay the rent. Nor do prostitutes (they probably didn’t share that with Mom). We were sickened to hear about the stuff our basketball players were pulling under Sampson. They would have been ‘Tim Tebows’ at Miami.
    All that being said, I don’t know if ‘the death penalty’ is the answer or not. Might it not be better to cripple the program with severe sanctions for a long time? That would put them out there as an example to others. I just don’t know.
    The unluckiest guy in all this? How about the new coach? What would you do? Quit? I’m sure he could finagle his way out of the contract, as if contracts mattered to coaches, anyway.
    What a mess.

  37. Chet,

    The check being given was at a basketball booster function. and Miami is a top 50 academic institution in the nation. I’ve gone to these events with the big donors of UM, they are called Golden Canes. Part of their donation goes towards the football scholarships (they are called living scholars for this). All the so-called access that Shapiro got, the team charter, etc. I can tell you is given to ALL donors on the Golden Cane level. I know this because I have gone to these functions with these people. One of the incentives is an invite to one away game a year where you fly up the night before with the team, theres a Golden Cane dinner the night before, you go to the game and then leave right after on the team plane. I’ve gone to 4 of these functions, Louisville, Oklahoma, Texas A&M, Wake Forest. That’s how that whole thing really pans out, when Shapiro says he was on the private team charter. Just more insight, these allegations are horrible I’m not refuting that; however, there is a lot being alleged in the wrong context that is coming out as being BS on his part. Once again, will post more as it comes out guys.

  38. Hell yes let’s pay them and let’s pay them plenty so as to remove all temptations. Let’s pay them $1500.00 a month for that will certainly insure there will be no shenanigans or corruption in their future amateur careers. With that action being so successful we should be able to get rid of the NCAA violations division altogether. That money each month will also guarantee they complete their degrees I am sure. I’ll be damn that cash can also buy them 8 or 9 brothel events each month. Part of it can be used to lease an Escalade or an Infiniti. The really fiscally responsible would save up for 4 or 5 months and buy a Rolex to sport around. This NCAA approved cash to amateurs scheme sounds like it could be part of an Obama plan for economic recovery. Humans, even the ones well off will always take more when offered. I think the hole has been dug deep enough. I still believe the U deserves the SMU treatment at the very least, after all they have spent more than a decade earning it. Heads should be hunted at the top an allowed to roll from there to the bottom.

  39. Miami Hoosier, I hope you take this (my feeling for your situation and your love for the U. of Miami) with sincerity about your hurt feelings and disappointment. It is meant to encourage you.

    Having said that, I really think you are reaching for straws and trying to find a ray of hope that the “U” (there is a difference between the U. of Miami(FL) and the “U”). The U. of Miami has a solid academic reputation (despite the occasional clusterf__k like when they screwed up Chet’s surgery) in many fields (oceanography for one, law, Latin American Studies, international business).

    The “U” also has a reputation as being a favorite for students whose main interest is the permissive lifestyle.

    In some ways, Miami itself contributes to this. The city grew with very strong investments from drug lords and the the drug trade. Some of the banking sector in Miami is notorious(especially with the Feds) for its role in money laundering. It is a favorite haven of run-away dictators, oligarchies from Latin America. South Americans call it the “sin capital of South America”. They read the Miami Herald (en Espanol) before they read USA Today. It is often the first stop for generals and other torturers involved in human right violations after they’ve been deposed by someone who is looking to violate their human rights.

    No one ever said Gomorrah was not, at least, interesting.
    It is sad in many ways. Miami grew in the 1960’s and 70’s because of a population of northeastern retirees and a great Cuban middle-class emigration that brought a large, well educated, professional and very sophisticated individuals that gave Miami a lot of its positive energy.

    But, the unintended consequences of its attraction for illegal capital also made it the Sodom/Gomorrah of the U.S. (perhaps, even more so than Las Vegas, where the investments are much more regulated NOW).

    All this to say that Miami was the type of setting that would also serve as host for the worse of the viruses affecting major intercollegiate sports. And that atmosphere became the attraction for the worse element in intercollegiate sports; scheming coaches, athletic administrators and bandit athletes with big physical size, athletic skill, though devoid of moral weight and…with their hand out, palms up.

    The best thing to happen to the U. of Miami is the uncovering of this shameful episode, the permanent banishment of any coach with even the most remote connection to it and the immediate loss of all eligibility by any current athlete who received as much a a breakfast Mc Cheese and Eggs at Mc Donalds.

    The so called death penalty is not only a Godsend but the only solution for the U. of Miami. It can use the two-three years banishment from intercollegiate athletics to completely restructure its entire athletic program to make it totally accountable to the University; restaff from top to bottom (all coaches should have their resignations requested if the do not provide them in five days, they should be fired for cause. Of course, the University could later rehire a coach clearly proven to not have participated in this corruption).

    By the way,- whatever you do, do not let the coaching staffs and especially the Athletic Department administrators con you into voting themselves a nearly two-million dollar ‘severance bonus’ for failing, as Kelvin Sampson and Rick Greenspan were able to extort from the Board of Trustees at IU. (Perhaps, there was a reason why the Board or someone on it wanted them to walk away…silently).

    Take my word for it. Accept the reality. It is shaming the “U’ but does not have bring shame to the U. of Miami….unless you make it a part of it by ignoring the obvious. At the end of the two-three years, Miami…(with a totally redesigned uniform and a new tradition) can rejoin the rest of this country in demanding that all other programs; SEC, Pacific Coast, Big Eight, and…yes…Big Ten -including Indiana University- set and follow the same standards of integrity and accountability as now demanded from the University of Miami.

    You are lucky, you’ll eventually get a chance to do it right. Weigh any semblance of the “U” (and all those involved) with freshly butchered meat in a blood soaked bag and throw it in the ocean- after consulting with the Dept. of Oceanography as to the best location of Big White Shark packs.

    Then…invite us…Podunker, Chet, Hoosier Clarion, Andy Graham…even DD…for a week in Miami. We’ll be the ones wearing red ‘Hoosier’ t-shirts when we get off the yellow school bus.

    In the meantime,…a Hoosier forever.

  40. Oops…don’t want to forget Chicago Hoosier and JPat. Which yellow school bus…the one with Chet’s motorcycle hanging from the back.

  41. Tsao,

    I don’t take what your saying as any type of personal attack at all. I’m just trying to bring perspective to a really shocking situation. I’m not holding on to rays of hope, merely interpreting what is being brought forth by those connected to the football team. I have no reason to fabricate anything that I bring to this discussion, little by little guys that were implicated are coming out and refuting this. Some have said that this guy is doing this to get time off, the truth of the matter is and this has come from direct Homeland Security people who work with financial fraud like Ponzi schemes is that he isn’t serving less time for divulging this unproven information. Remember, this is all alleged, this is 5 months into an investigation and there are many many many months more left to be able to 100% say that what he is saying is correct. Everyone calling for the death penalty is crazy, SMU paid players to go there $50k at a time, the allegations that were in the article were not to that amount, and if you want any sort of parallel to be drawn look at OSU. The majority of these allegations were when the guys were already on campus, signed and playing. The sensationalism that media has played on this is unbelievable, maybe its because this is the 4th major university to have something big come up with the masses feeling that the NCAA has done very little to punish schools like USC, OSU, UNC and even Auburn (they had a real sports investigative piece with players on camera telling it how it is, and nothing has transpired from that). If you give Miami the death penalty for doing essentially what OSUs players did (accepted gifts while playing for the school), you will set a precedence that will have to be followed by the next batch of schools to get caught (mostly SEC, that’s a fact). But honestly, please stop associating some of these guys that play football for the U as scum and trash and relating it to the 1980’s, totally different time frame. Also, the whole notion of Miami being a party school is a joke IMO. I’ve been here my entire life, with the exception of a short stint in bloomington. All the glitz is on the beach which is about 20-25 min away. IU is a bigger party school and that’s a fact. When you guys come to Miami feel free to come on down and grab a few cold ones.

  42. TTG, IIRC Greenspan’s severance was $400k and K Sanctions was $750k. Even though shy of $2m it still was at least $750k to much as Sanctions should have had his dust sacked up and escorted off the property.

  43. Hoosier Clarion, the concept of picking up the tab for scholarships and educating them is that at some point they will become educated and contribute to the society other than by jumping up and down or running real fast. Most accomplish this.

    The United States Military Academy (like Navy, Air Force and Cost Guard) provide all tuition, room, board, books and a $600 monthly stipend for incidental expenses such as uniforms and laundry and dry cleaning. I would agree with a figure near that, something reasonable. I would only agree to transportation to and from campus twice a year (non-refundable ticket).

    Beyond that, there are mechanisms at the schools to borrow at low rates of interest. There is something to the argument that an individual is motivated by vesting himself.

    Having updated the current scholarship amounts, I would want some contracts to insure the players meet their obligation to stay at the school through, at least, the junior year,(canceled only by mutual agreement in writing), to include a promissory (by the player)note to pay back the entire amount if they leave early (for any reason, including non-performing in the classroom). Treble damages payable (by prior agreement with the NFL, NBA, MLS, NHL, MLB)if the player leaves to go directly into the pros.

    But, in general, there is no reason why their stipends should provide more than the top academic stipends. I also think that financial need should be considered and part of the equation in the award and that the formula for determining the amount should be controlled by the NCAA (if those guys get to a point we can trust them).

    All monies would be deposited directly into a player account, withdrawals made as needed and account records of his/her expenditures available, on demand, to NCAA officials at all times.

    (Something that caught my eye in the Miami story is that Kevin Hester received money from Shapiro to pay for an engagement ring and to make payment for his Navigator SUV. Navigator SUV? Kevin Hester?? At least, if we supervised his account we’d notice the $40,000 car his girl friend bought him for Valentine’s Day and have some warning when Hester needs $8000 for gas and need $11.95 for an English Lit book.

    Now you see why my working theory on life is, ‘man is basically good, but he’s just better if you watch him’.
    Miami, Tennessee, Southern Cal, OSU, Auburn, etc should all engrave that into their stadium press boxes. And Sampson, etal have it burnt into their foreheads.

  44. something that is coming out on Miami boards is that Shapiro knew where players would hang out and would just show up there. Person described him as being a “predator” in terms of stalking and trying to get in contact with these guys. Also, NCAA is leaving UM by the end of the week to start individual interviews (Haith at Mizzou looks to be first). All photos released have no current players in them, all were of old players at banquets and other public functions. more to come later

  45. C’mon man. There’s no way to spin this. This is bad no matter how high (or low) you set the bar and, no, they weren’t doing the same things in Tuskaloosa, or anywhere else. Those players weren’t victims being stalked. Everyone’s heard Miami players bragging about things being “different” for football players at Miami for 30 plus years. If you told a college football fan, outside of south Florida, that these kind of things happened at an unnamed school almost everyone’s first guess would be Miami…and that’s a fact.

  46. TTG, the way it works in the service academies is the students, for personnel purposes, are paid as an E-5 (I think that’s still the grade they use). And it’s everyone, not just the athletes. It’s not a stipend, it’s their pay grade. They also receive uniform allowances and any other benefit that a service member of that pay grade would receive outside of those that are not applicable (housing allowance, etc.). It’s a pretty sweet gig, you actually get paid to go to a college where everything is already paid for. How long you have to serve is commensurate with any additional education and/or your specific service designator.

  47. Chet,

    I’m sorry but I disagree with you. These things go on at every major football university, and that’s a fact; if you don’t think that then you don’t pay attention to the SEC obv. I’m not trying to spin it. Does this look bad, of course. But is all this backlash knee-jerk reactions from everyone? most def. THe death penalty as was given to SMU only is handed out if its a repeat offender within a 5 year period. Miami was on probation in ’95, first allegation from the Ponzi was in 2001. i don’t understand how everyone is claiming kill the program, they’re thugs, they’re this, etc. These are all allegations, remember that first. Remember how we were all up in arms over Fish’s little investigative piece with poor journalistic integrity? There are starting to be massive holes in the Ponzi’s as well. Not saying that everything he said isn’t true, i’m not naive enough to think that; but c’mon.

  48. Regarding the Fish story, from the get go there were no accusations of actual wrong doing. Just sort of a squishy allegation of things not looking the way Fish would like. It was printed and then forgotten by the world, as it deserved. I’m sure it’s not something Fish will put on his resume’.

    I have no guess as to what the penalty will be. I’m not up on those kind of things and I don’t really know how they are applied. I’m not pulling for any particular penalty as I don’t have a dog in the fight. I’ve never felt one way or another about Miami, as it’s just not on my radar. I’m afraid you have a very Pollyanna-ish view of your beloved Hurricanes. “Everybody else was doing it” is right up there with “I was just following orders” in the book of sorry excuses. I have a brother-in-law that, for the past 25 years, through scandal after scandal, keeps insisting the Kentucky Wildcats are as pure as the driven snow. You’re don’t want to sound like him. No one wants to be ‘that guy’. As for myself, I would never equate a good school like Miami with a bait and tackle shop like Kentucky.

    I can tell this weighs heavily on you and we do need to wait and see what comes out in the investigation. Will you continue to insist on their innocence if the NCAA determines they have committed egregious violations and decide to hammer them?

    That’s what my brother-in-law would do.

  49. TTG, So much for the Military Academy model. They are employees of the US Armed Forces. Your formula for the rest of sports academia would multiply expenses, auditing and red tape. Dig the hole deeper! Just what we need is larger compliance departments and also a bigger NCAA. Plus the scholarship players will be wealthy enough to trade cars every 4 months. The best way to keep kids focused on their goal and in line is to keep them broke. I’ll brag a little bit about the fact that my wife and I never provided one damn dime to any of our 3 sons for a vehicle to drive in HS or college. We did pay half their tuition, room and board and all books at college. They bought their own junkers to drive. I wish all of you could see them today, they are all winners. And you know what they still love Mom and the Ole Man. The oldest is a terminal manager for a freight transport corp., the middle one has his degree, is married(we finally have a daughter)and preparing to launch his own self employed venture and the youngest is managing a remote lodging resort in Washington State(Hey Husky Tom, ever hear of Stehekin?)and all 3 are under 28. That spells SUCCESS and simple, economic actions controlling behavior did it. The lack of WAM(walking around money)played a primary part. My arm is now wore out from back patting but honestly the bulk of this success is the fault of the boys and my wife.

    Now the NCAA is focusing on willful violators at Miami. The dirt pile is getting broader and taller.

  50. It’s great to see your kids be successful adults. Good for you. You realize how trivial things like high school athletics are when they become adults.

  51. Thanks, Chet, your thoughts are supportive and mean a lot. Quite frankly knowing my wife no one could have expected anything less, she is a whirlwind in second gear and never out of control, the boys never stood a chance. Hope like hell she doesn’t read this, she’ll want a new house or at the least a bigger pool.

  52. Hoosier Clarion, Chet…I agree and knew that the military academy model involves a formal relationship between the student and the academy.

    I’m well acquainted (through my oldest son) with the ‘pay’ system at USMA. It may be a ‘great gig’, but you pay back in other, very honorable ways. He’s been deployed to war zones for nearly six of the last eleven years. Like you I am as proud of my daughter, a fantastic human being and a great wife and mother.I enjoy reading about other bloggers’ families as well. When it washes out, that’s the sum of our achievements o this earth.

    My suggestion of reforming the athletic scholarship system was merely about covering (but not coddling)the student-athletes expenses (at a minimum but just level). We also need to re-examine the entire system of varsity, division I athletics. It invites cheating. But, I don’t think they athletes should receive much beyond what they are now receiving. I feel no compelling obligation to provide them with an SUV, rings, bings, bangs, motel or drug money.

    Nor do I think we need to turn the programs into Disneyland for the administrators and coaches, but that’s a separate discussion.

    Still, while I feel for Miami Hoosier and the pain involved; emotionally, it’s clear he is overwhelmed. Nevertheless, he does make a good point when he points out that the same goes on at Kentucky, Tennessee, North Carolina, Auburn, USC, Ohio State…. Our own under Sampson/Greenspan did not exactly attract ‘good kids’ to our midst. It happened, it was as ugly as it was, the characters were nauseating. Even our treatment of Dan Dakich- talk about being thrown under the bus- marks a low point in our own history. But,…we acknowledged (at least most of us do), and we are building on the ashes.
    Hopefully, Miami Hoosier and the U. of Miami will eventually do likewise.

    The solution lies partially in the use of the ‘death sentence’ and in designing a system of intercollegiate competition that does not lead to growing deadly virus in our own campuses.

  53. Death Penalty for “the U’s” FB program! No screwing around. They clearly deserve it. It solves the problem and sends a very loud message to all other University athletic programs. It makes the Miami culture irrelevant.

    As for increasing scholarship money, I’m not saying $1,500 per month, but as I understand and experienced it, today’s scholarships don’t cover the student-athlete’s total costs to attend college. My daughter had a “full ride” athletic scholarship for two years at a major D1 university and I was amazed at how much money it cost her mother and I to keep her in school in spite of her full ride scholarship. Thankfully, we had the means to cover the difference. But many athletes’ families don’t!

    You take kids out of serious poverty, ask them to play a sport that makes the coaches, administrators, and the entire university a lot of money, but won’t even cover their costs to attend school, you invite these rules violations. The discrepencies between the scholarship benefits and the total cost to attend college becomes the justification to accept many of the illegal benefits. One Ohio State football player said exactly that when interviewed by Sports Illustrated. So my hypothesis is, eliminate the justification to accept the illegal benefits, but then, if you catch a violator, you drop the hammer on the player and everyone else involved. No excuses and no tolerance. Be fair, then be firm! No more excuses and no more BS.

    Lastly, how can anyone be shocked about this news? Things like this have been going on in many universities for decades. How do you think UCLA won so many NCAA Championships? That was one of the most corupt programs in the history of intercolligiate athletics. One of my best freinds played BB for UCLA and the first hand stories he tells me confirm that this news about “the U” is nothing new.

  54. TTG, my ‘great gig’ reference was regarding the finances only. My oldest had the opportunity to study engineering at the USMA and elected to absorb a ton of debt instead. As you noted, there are plenty of ‘other costs’. I’m sure you are rightfully very proud of him and your daughter as well.
    My daughter had athletic scholarship offers but also was accepted to an Ivy League school and they don’t have such animals. She couldn’t turn it down and she is happy with her choice. We are managing the money part as best as we can. Better than having to pay for a lawyer to keep your kid out of jail (I’ll have to ask my father-in-law about that).
    When I was a high school senior I passed on a full ride from the Air Force as I was never going to be in the military. So, after I graduated from IU I worked in a mundane job for about two months. Soon after I was in Pensacola having a USMC Drill Instructor in my face and, later, naval aviation training. So, I guess I was mistaken about the military and me.
    Financially, bad planning. Such is life

  55. …I also think that it might be a stretch to say “the same” goes on at other institutions. Seriously, give me an example of “the same” occurring somewhere else.

  56. Chet, by ‘the same’ I did not mean the same exact behavior (the bing, the bangs…as at the ‘U’}. Whether it’s a tattoo or a ‘loan’ car at OSU, or the rent payments for Bush’s house while at USC My reference is to a generic corruption of institutions and people. Worse…young people. Granted,the ‘U’ is the exaggeration, but ethically and morally I believe the same is true at the schools I listed. And, I really believe we won’t end the problem until we address it all as corroding values, not differentiating by degree of corruption.

    It particularly bothers me, because we can never ignore Sampson, Greenspan, Brand and the other useless clowns wore IU on their shirts.

  57. Podunker, I agree with you and think your argument for covering ‘real’ costs is a good one; particularly if the money award considers the student’s financial need. But, your main point, eliminating the ‘justification’ for accepting under -the-table benefits and better enforcement is central to reforming intercollegiate athletics.

    (Then too, we have to be consider balance for other than athletic talent).

  58. Here’s something else that I was thinking about. When I was in school I was able to pay my way through working about 24 hours a week during school and full time in the summers. You can’t do that anymore. It just costs so much more. I graduated from IU debt free.

    As those of you with kids who have gone to college know, if you’re rich you can afford college. If you’re poor, you’ll receive need based aid for college. If you’re in the middle, you’re screwed. You’ll absorb massive amounts of debt that will take decades to pay off for college.

    As most have figured out, I’m fairly liberal, but it always makes me crazy when I hear someone say their family is poor so they can’t go to college. I know it’s because they don’t understand how the system works. Just apply. Pretty much every school will provide all the necessary aid if you’re poor.

  59. Chet,…wow, you are absolutely correct and the principle is (or ought to be) a huge issue immune to the politics of class. Take federally funded Head Start pre-school/ pre-k programs. They are mostly available and most slots are filled by people who come under maximum income guidelines.

    The very wealthy, are not affected (as much) they will happily pay what the market will bear and tend to see it as an investment. But middle-income families, mainly professionals earning above $40,000/p.a. do not qualify for that assistance and the cost of preparing their children for school becomes prohibitive,

    There’s another unwanted consequences that affects teacher quality differences. Because the schools assisted by the programs are funded by the government (the taxpayer) budgets are markedly larger. The preschool Head Start programs available are usually attached to public school systems; and, because of the federal role and of teacher unions in those systems, salaries are also markedly higher. This has the impact of concentrating the better trained pre-k teachers in the lower income pre-school market.

    Yet, the taxes that provide these programs tend to come from the middle class sectors. That is, those less likely to be able to afford it. Without the federal assistance, preschool education available to the middle income sectors depends on non-federally funded salaries- in other words, tuition based programs where salaries are lower. (Often, non-certificated part-time workers).

    Ironically, even teaching professionals (whose salaries usually average in the mid-five figures) are less likely to qualify for these federally funded Head Start pre-school programs. They just simply are not broke enough.

    A big policy objective these days seems to be reducing income gaps… (between the poor and middle classes). But, does it have to reduce them by pushing the bottom and squeezing the middle?

  60. Chet, Your last 2 sentences correctly identify my defiance to paying scholarship players. They get a full ride which can extend 5 years to complete 4. Sometimes that 5th year is grad school. Is there something wrong with them having the possibility of a financial obligation at the end of their collegiate tenure? If they are going to be entrusted with cash, why can they not be also entrusted with debt. Is not the idea to build character, responsibility and maturity? No matter what amount decided upon to pay them there will always be the clamor for more. The ones I fear and fear for are the ones who have never been taught how to handle money. They will always be tempted and working the gray area looking to cross the line. They will be same problem we are presently trying to neutralize and the only difference being that problem now cost more.

  61. The sentence, “those less likely to be able to afford it”, should read “…those least likely to qualify under the current guidelines defining ‘low income'”. Sorry.

  62. I don’t have any data to support this but, based upon personal experiences, I’ll bet this is true. I will bet that student athletes in non revenue sports not only have better GPAs than students in revenue sports, but have higher GPAs than the overall student population. Here’s why, or at least our experiences. All three of my kids competed in college. Only one of them was an ‘upper echelon’ athlete, by that I mean he made it to the NCAA Championships. When he was being recruited the coach refused to commit to any dollar figure for financial aid. His reasoning was, my son graduated near the top of his class and he had high SAT scores. The coach said that these factors played a large role in his recruitment. He said if a coach has two athletes he could recruit and one of them may qualify for an academic scholarship, he is going to be the athlete recruited every time. All my kids got more money for their grades than for their sports. I bet this strategy is repeated over and over again for non revenue sports.
    Now, we got squat for need based, even from an Ivy League school (which was really contrary to what we were told about financial aid from the institution, but that is another story). To tell the truth, we did need the assistance, but we’ll be okay. But is it reasonable for one kid to owe $90,000 and another to graduate debt free because one family makes $65,000 and the other makes $25,000? Neither family can afford to take on that kind of debt. I firmly believe that the kid from the impoverished family should get plenty of aid but how about if he ends up owing $30,000 and the other kid $60,000?
    Regarding poor kids in revenue sports. Why in the world don’t coaches have these kids apply for need based scholarships first? For that matter, if a kid from a poor family ‘gets his scholarship taken away’, that doesn’t make him ineligible for need based aid. I don’t see how their status would change at all.
    As for us, over the years we’ve made enough to invest, and we’ve built an outside business while working for other people. We’ll be fine. But I don’t think that is representative of the average middle income family. I think state universities should be very, very affordable for residents of those states. Just like they were when I went into school. Private universities and out-of-state students can charge, and be charged, out the wazoo for all I care. But in state universities should be affordable for everyone.

  63. I think that the problem with your argument Chet, is that it is totally reasonable and makes both ethical and fiscal sense. So politicians will run away from it screaming! And, sadly, university administrators are dependent on those politicians. (See the amoeba gets eaten by the little fish and the little fish gets eaten by the medium sized fish and…but eventually, everything balances out….all the fish-even the big fish gets eaten by the parasites, the politicians.

    It really is frustrating to think about your issue because it is one that is slapping everyone around. Part of the problem is that few think about it and we are mostly ignorant.

    At some point we got to the point where we have decided to use every activity in our lives to promote an equality that plainly does not exist anywhere. What does exist is ‘equity’ which is a much more reasonable concept. Everyone achieves according to the talents he/she possesses. We should provide equality of opportunity to promote equity (my talents in relationship to the environment)but you can whistle until the cows come home if you think equality is a ‘natural’ condition.

    I’m 5’7″ or so. I would like to be able to be an NFL player or an NBA player. I can’t begin to think that the Supreme Court would ever dictate that my height gives me ‘unequal’ access and rule to transform the game. So equality, like smoke, is an illusion…there ain’t nothing there (and if someone’s going to argue that they know someone 5’5″ who has succeeded in basketball or football, I would argue right back that I can safely say no one 5’2″ ever played in the modern NBA or would ever get a team interested to give him/her the same opportunity in the NFL (sue their butts!)…just to preempt dumb arguments sure to follow).

    The right offensive guard for the Hoosiers 1967 Big Ten Football Champs (Bob Russell) weighed 210lbs, soaked,(you ever want a laugh, hear him describe trying to block Bubba Smith: “I asked him to dance and he refused”). Today, they would not allow him to be the team manager. But equity, use of the talents he did own (his brains,his heart) made him a champion. He would never even get the chance today.

    Your argument about ‘fairness’ (that’s what it is) is absolutely great and on target. Think through applying the concept of equity to all of the issues (including in-state, out-of-state, socioeconomic backgrounds, available skill sets, prior accomplishments and contributions, etc). In many senses, ‘equality’ privileges the least in favor of the more capable competitor(as a referee who blows fouls against the bigger, shorter or slower guy to make things equal).

    I don’t think our games reflect our society, our society

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