Class of 2012 has arrived on campus

Indiana incoming freshman point guard Yogi Ferrell posted on his Twitter account that “#TheMovement is here!”

What that means, of course is that Indiana’s Class of 2012, which coined the phrase “The Movement,” to stand for Indiana’s run of highly-ranked in-state recruits, has arrived on campus.Forward Hanner Mosquera-Perea and center Peter Jurkin had already been on campus for a week. Ferrell, guard Ron Patterson and swingman Jeremy Hollowell participated in last week’s Indiana All-Star series and graduated before arriving on campus on Wednesday.

All five still have to be cleared by the NCAA clearinghouse — and the Guy-Marc Michel situation proved that certain situations could not be ironed out until the beginning of the season or close to it — but their arrival on campus suggests that Indiana and coach Tom Crean presume that they will all be qualified. By formally enrolling — which they won’t do officially until Monday – they begin their five-year clock, so that effectively precludes any of the five from postponing enrollment for prep school.

And this of course means that there are 14 scholarship players on campus and only 13 scholarships for them.


  1. Dustin, I assume you’re including Roth as one of the 14? As was beaten to death last week, I think most people believe Roth will not be on next year’s roster.

    But for the sake of discussion, what are Crean’s options? What are the rules that govern these situations? Is it Crean’s choice as to who gets a scholarship and who does not?

    I know it’s difficult to speculate, but if Roth wants to play and Crean wants to keep him for another year, who is most likely to get the boot? Based on this story, it’s not going to be anyone that is a part of The Movement. And if it’s not Roth, what impact does that have on the player that get’s cut?

  2. I’m not including Roth as one of the 14. He would make 15. I’m presuming at this point, he is not returning. To wit, without Roth, the roster includes.
    Class of 2009
    1. Jordan Hulls
    2. Christian Watford
    3. Derek Elston
    4. Maurice Creek
    Class of 2010
    5. Victor Oladipo
    6. Will Sheehey
    Class of 2011
    7. Cody Zeller
    8. Austin Etherington
    9. Remy Abell
    Class of 2012
    10. Yogi Ferrell
    11. Ron Patterson
    12. Jeremy Hollowell
    13. Hanner Perea
    14. Peter Jurkin

    I know only this. The players become counters as of the beginning of the fall semester. That’s when he’s officially over the limit. I don’t even know what the penalty is for that, but that’s his deadline.

  3. Thanks, Dustin. And if I recall, red-shirting does not resolve the problem.

    My guess is that one of the freshman will not qualify this year or two of the older players will be leaving soon. What other possible scenarios are there?

  4. That is correct. Redshirting will not solve the problem.
    My guess, at this point, is that all of the freshmen will qualify. At least academically. I talked to some people with Indiana Elite and they said Perea and Jurkin are both very safely academically qualified and they don’t have anything specific to fear, but you simply never know what the Clearinghouse will find to squabble about when it comes to foreign players. There was some noise going around about Hollowell and Patterson not qualifying, but they both told me point blank that they’re fine. If they weren’t I can’t imagine they would have enrolled. When Maurice Creek was on shaky ground with his SAT scores, he just didn’t enroll until September and waited until he was cleared. Crean said recently that he was still waiting on final transcripts. I don’t know if he got them or not, but there’s no question he has enough academic data on them that if he knew they weren’t going to qualify he would have pushed the prep school option and those guys wouldn’t be in Bloomington.
    If Roth doesn’t return, Crean only has to make one more opening, and that of course is the difficult part because the Creek recovery has at least some tenuousness to it. If he comes back to health, I’m not sure what he’s going to do. Apparently, no one wants to leave, because if they did, they would’ve left by now. And if Crean were to decide to move somebody, there’s no dead weight there. Look up and down that list and consider ramifications for 2013 and beyond. Is there anyone you’d feel comfortable pushing off? Don’t say Etherington or Abell, because Crean has made it clear he likes them both. He still needs Elston too, because without him he’s relying on freshmen for all of his reserve post minutes. And obviously, when it comes to Hulls, Watford, Oladipo, Sheehey and Zeller, you’re talking about starters.
    I really don’t know how this gets fixed, unless they decide Creek isn’t going to make it back. I don’t entirely understand how it would work for a player to come off scholarship and play as a walk-on. I’m not ruling that out because I don’t know the rules there, but I don’t think anyone’s going to jump at the chance to pay $10 grand or so.

  5. I am betting the man that draws the short straw is in the middle of the 4 year pack.

  6. Didn’t the Hulls family say a while back that if Gary Harris signed with Indiana they would pay for a year of Jordy’s school? Remy Abell better not transfer because he’s gonna be important next year. AE will be important his junior and senior years. I think Elston or Creek will transfer. Or in Creek’s case give up basketball. It’s really sad but it’s got to be said. Remember the guy on MSU a few years ago that had the knee problems and had to quit college basketball? It’s a shame what happened to MO. He could have been one of the best shooters in the Big 10.

  7. Someone pointed this out on the blog last week at some point. According to the NCAA manual, the institution is obligated to inform all returning student athletes by July 1 if their scholarship will be renewed. However, the rule allows for “reconsideration of nonrenewal,” which means you can tell a player he isn’t getting his scholarship renewed and then tell him later that he will.
    So by my interpretation (I should get a compliance officer for their interpretation, because I often think I know what I’m reading the NCAA manual but am not as certain as I think I am) what this means is that by July 1, there has to be some kind of move. They might have to tell one player he’s paying his own way if Creek returns. But that still gives them the possibility of giving him the scholarship back if Creek does not return.

  8. Reggie,
    If the Hulls family said that, they didn’t say it publicly (They couldn’t, because it would be an NCAA violation). But anyway, I heard that rumor, too, and I’m not saying it is or isn’t true, but I can tell you that Hulls is very much operating under the assumption that he will have his first year of graduate school paid for by scholarship.

  9. To clarify, the Hulls family paying for school would not have been an NCAA violation, but publicly declaring that they were doing it for the sake of signing Gary Harris would be a violation if he were mentioned by name.

  10. The process of elimination combined with simple logic suggests that Creek will be leaving. Otherwise, either Etherington or Abell will be leaving, or someone is giving up their scholarship for a year.

    It will be interesting to see how this plays out.

  11. Most likely it’s ‘hasta la vista’ for Elston and Roth.

    I would get rid of Sheehey and Etherington.

    Sheehey thinks he’s too good and Etherington is only in Bloomington because he takes the top bunk in Cody’s dorm.

  12. Nope, I doubt it will be Sheehey or Elston. Too much experience and playing time last year. You need Elston for the big bodies in the Big Ten and you have to remember that Crean sited the arrival of Sheehey and Oladipo as changing the culture and work ethic of the team. That’s code for saying they brought “leadership” and “toughness” to the team.

    Look at playing time for last year. Those players with the least amount of PT are arguably the least valuable players on the team and therefore the most likely to get cut. If Creek’s legs will allow him to play at a high level, you have to assume Crean see’s him as having more upside than either Etherington or Abell. If Creek’s legs won’t allow him to play this year, you have to assume he’s going to get cut.

  13. I didn’t say it would be Sheehey…It’s a ruthless process and if ruthlessness was needed from my doorstep, then I would cut Sheehey and Etherington.

    I don’t think Sheehey is suited for the fast pace we’ll be playing(witnessed too many mistakes in traffic last year) and Etherington was a charity case from the beginning…We all know that. I give Roth another year before I hand out more charity awards..Sheehey’s big ego will be just fine at Florida International.

    I see Abell, Creek, and Roth far more valuable to our needs.

    Now, who did I think will be gone?…As I said above, Elston and Roth.

  14. “I would get rid of Sheehey and Etherington.”

    I didn’t say that you said it would be those guys. I responded to what you said you would do. In fact, I did not pose the question ‘what would you do,” I simply explored the logic of which players are most likely to be cut in hopes of generating different insights from other posters.

    Given the circumstances, I can’t imagine Roth being with the team next year.

  15. I can imagine Roth being back, but only in a non-scholarship scenario. If he wants to have grad school paid for he’s gonna have to transfer.

    If I had to guess, I’d say the other odd man out would be Creek. It isn’t too big a deal to come back after one knee issue and one year lost, but multiple knee issues to both knees and multiple years lost… I just don’t see how he ends up contributing with all the youth and talent in the program right now. Why take time away from someone who will be an important player for 3 or 4 more years to attempt a science project with Creek?

    I think the next most obvious choice would be Etherington. There are just so many players, some with more experience and others with more upside, that will take up those minutes. The next year there will be even more depth on the wing with Davis and Hartman coming in. I can see a situation where Austin chooses to stay as a walk-on just because he always wanted to be a Hoosier and Zeller and the Movement are all his boys. Does anyone know his family situation?

    I think the 3rd guy would be Abell, simply because he is replaceable. With guys likeYogi, Patterson, and Robinson coming into the program you can afford to lose Abell. It sucks. It’s not like I want to see him go. I enjoy watching him play and think he has potential, but he’s more replaceable than other guys.

    Lastly I just can’t imagine that Elston will be the guy to go. First, he is an experienced big man. Second, he was actually pretty tough on defense last year. Third, he was a knock down shooter when healthy (I mean really lights out!), so he brings a different dimension than any of the other players that can guard post players. Lastly, he is a senior and I think it would be unusual to move a senior who has been a contributing player during his career.

    So all that means is that it will probably end up being Elston…

  16. You don’t cut a kid that already had his career likely destroyed by two blown out knees.

    The only reason you’re suggesting Abell is to spite me, Geoff. Only kid that keeps me hangin’ on. Humble baller that rescued us in many situations last year with nothing but unselfish desires to better his team..What more do you want? He’s everything Kentucky isn’t and what a great symbol of what it means to be a Hoosier in the face of the obnoxious man now at UK?

    Crean never gave Elston his needed development early on..He was a Sampson recruit and expendable..Crean was always most concerned with giving Doc River’s boy playing time in hopes some rare shot at Austin.

    Probably the best thing for Derek would be to finish out where he’s appreciated. He is a great shooter but at times his engine is running faster than his abilities(much of that is due to the hours lost in PT during his first two years..over-pumped..over-performance anxiety).

    Shame on you for suggesting Remy…That hits me in a very dark place and all know what a depressing soul I am already. Thanks a bunch for that. Remy Remix forever.

  17. Abell was not said in spite. I justified my answers quite well. Like I said, tough choices need to made, and he is more replaceable than other players. I still think he is with the team next year because I think Creek is out. Remy is 4th on my list after Roth, Creek, and Austin… Sorry if that offends you.

    Aren’t Elston and Creek the same class? Doesn’t that mean they were both recruited by the same coaching staff? That is a serious question. I really don’t know/remember the answer. Point is, if that’s true why show favoritism to Creek?

    I agree about your assessment of Elston’s motor, and I think you and I have had that convo before. However, I’m still trying to find why you think Elston is the one. I think it was injuries always holding Elston back, not Crean. Last year he started the year healthy, got good minutes and shot something like 70% (on jump shots) over the first 5 or 6 games. Then got dinged up and his time was severely cut back. However, once he got healthy about 2/3 of the way through the season Crean once again started giving him quality minutes – having a 10-game stretch where he averaged about 18 minutes, shot over 50% FG, and went an amazing 8-12 from 3-pt land.

    When you can tell me who else on the 2012-13 roster can guard a center and legit be counted on to hit 50% from 3-pt land, then I’ll agree that Elston will be the guy to go.

  18. These posts prove that most fans on this blog are idiots. All 14 plus Roth, as a 15th, have shown that they can play, that they work hard at improving, that they are quality kids, that they are quality students, etc. Coach Crean, pull a rabbit out of a hat! I like each and every one of them. But Roth will have to be a walk-on, and he may have better options.

  19. Whoever it is, I hope Crean has some creative way for us to get out of this mess with some elegance. I can almost accept Roth (not like it, but accept it given he’s already completed two- is it two?- graduate degrees). But, whatever the outcome, it would be an injustice to whoever it is, and send a terrible message about our program.

    We should also stop guessing and discussing this issue in terms of ‘who should we get rid of?’. The speculation is centered on selecting and discussing the negatives about players who have all given a lot to the Hoosiers at a time when believing in the Hoosiers was a commodity in very short supply. It’s disrespectful and shameful and will come back to bite us. It makes the Hoosier basketball program look as if it lacks integrity and respect for our players.

    Crean should be very careful about a decision; but, he should address it as soon as it is possible to end this kind of speculation. He needs to be very conscious that this situation goes right to the heart of the issues he twitters about.

  20. Sweet! So out of:


    Which of us are idiots? And why?

    The only disparaging remark I saw was Harvard calling Sheehey an egomaniac.

    I like the strong opinion, though… Can you elaborate just a touch?

  21. Tsao – I completely trust Crean to handle the situation with elegance, don’t you? From what I can tell, we have a team full of high-character individuals, so even if the player is offended or taken off-guard by being left out, I believe that it would be handled with class on their end as well.

    It’s also what makes it that much tougher… Knowing your going to disappoint someone who is a deserving and contributing member of the “family.”

    As far as the ‘getting rid of’ comment… The only one framing it as such was Harvard. And satire is kinda his thing, so good luck getting him to change his style.

  22. I’d be amazed if it’s Elston. How many kids leave after their junior year? Next to zero?

    I agree that if Creek isn’t healthy, he’s probably gone.

    Don;t know why Etherington is staying since he will never, and I mean never, see the floor.

  23. My guess would be that Roth walks on if he wants to play and that the one up a Creek without a paddle would be Creek without a paddle.

    Unless of course, he is really back all the way. In that case, all bets are off.

    And I say all that without even the smallest trace of put-down of Maurice Creek, whom I admire greatly as a person and a player.

    Life can be tough and sometimes it is nobody’s fault.

  24. Geoff, Elston was initially recruited by Sampson for the 2009 class and I believe verbally committed but agreed to honor his commitment when Crean was hired. Creek was being recruited to Marquette before Crean took the Indiana job.
    The Crean-Elston relationship has been a fascinating one to watch from a distance. It really took them a while to get each other. Elston is certainly not a stupid kid, as he obviously graduated in three years, but he’s better when things are explained to him in simple terms. Crean, meanwhile, can make your head spin. Elston always credits Tim Buckley when it comes to discussing game plans, and I’ve always thought that it’s because Buckley can take what Crean says and translate it into terms that Elston can understand. Through that, they’ve come to an understanding, and while Elston used to frustrate Crean — and to a degree Crean used to frustrate Elston — I think you really saw a lot of growth in that relationship this year. His health was a big reason why he did so much better, but just as much of it was that he finally figured out what he was supposed to be doing because they finally found a connection. I have no idea what’s going to happen, but if Elston goes (and I really, really, really don’t think he will) it won’t be because once upon a time he was recruited by Sampson. Plus, Elston is too important to the chemistry of this team. He’s not necessarily a captain, but he’s hilarious, and his teammates love him.

  25. Dustin that last comment you made regarding Elston is why I love reading your articles and posts. That is inside access we never ever get from the Star or ITH (both sites I do enjoy reading BTW.) The Elston – Crean dynamic and the insight about Elston’s relationship with teammates is just not something the average fan gets to hear. I wish you could go through the entire roster and be as candid with comments about all the players. Alas, that would probably not be possible.

  26. Crean really restricted his minutes his freshman year and I still say it effected the relationship and Elston’s confidence. Say what you will, there was a ton of skepticism any Sampson recruit. Crean treated his first recruit, Verdell Jones, like he was the golden child while barely noticing the huge upside in Elston.

    I think Dustin is right about Elston’s fun-loving personality. I believe he won his teammates over so much that it helped give him some inroads with the coach.

    Outside of Remy, Elston is one of my favorite Hoosiers..I love his rebel attitude and his spunk. I’ll never forget when Chet nicknamed him Hannibal.

    I was also a very big advocate for Creek..When most were slobbering all over Kyrie Irving, I was elated that Tom Crean landed Maurice. Creek just never had much opportunity to show his classy game..I thought his shooting form on his perimeter jump shot was reminiscent of “The Big O” …a ton pf potential cut unfairly short. I would honor Creek’s scholarship at all costs.

    I’m skeptical on Jurkin ever having much value to our deep roster. I never understood the offer and I think it goes back to Adams(former video coordinator for the Hoosiers) and his ties to A-Hope/AAU ball. Funny how the end result of all that tit for tat ended with Adams now an assistant under Alford at New Mexico.

    Wasn’t Capobianco part of a scholarship crunch? Wasn’t he recruit by Crean..I think he would of been a senior this year if he’d remained at IU..Most these guys don’t get to the level of achievement their at by not being resilient. Bobby “The Situation” Capo doesn’t look too miserable. I’m ecstatic our progress under Crean, but let’s keep in mind that even Bryce Drew played with a tiny team likely never a scholarship issue and still managed to get to a Sweet 16.

  27. oops.

    Wasn’t Capobianco part of a scholarship crunch? Wasn’t he recruited by Crean?..I think he would have been a senior this year if he’d remained at IU. Most these guys don’t get to the level of achievement their at by not being resilient. Bobby “The Situation” Capo doesn’t look too miserable.

  28. Wow..My apologizes for all the misspellings and punctuation lapses..Just got home from work and I’m drunk tired.

    Most these guys never get to the level of achievement they’re at….

  29. I’m confident that Mo will have a scholarship, whether it’s an athletic one or not.

    Which brings up another point. Let’s say Mo is getting need based financial aid (like any student on campus is eligible for). Could he be am member of the basketball team without it counting toward our scholly total? I’ll bet that we’ve had walk ons receiving non athletic department financial aid in the past.

  30. Whoever said Sheehey should leave is an idiot. Sheehey has so much grit and is a very hard worker! Abell is not leaving either!

  31. Nobody know less about basketball than Hillbilly.

    Elston had his “minutes restricted” because he was screwing up….like virtually all big freshmen do.

    It wasn’t because, as the idiot claims, “Crean hated him because he was recruited by Sampson.”

    And it also isn;t “Crean’s fault” that Elston didn’t do better his soph year…..the guy was HURT.

    Now you know why I skip over most of his posts.

    Complete moron…….

  32. Beard,
    I appreciate that, but it’s not super-insider access. Really some stuff I saw from a distance and put together over the past three years and confirmed some talking to Elston during the Tournament. The guys at the Star and ITH could tell you the same thing.

  33. It’s crazy, all of these guys on our team can contribute. Derek Elston needs to improve his shot selection and he’ll do alright. He’s a big that can shoot 3s. I think it’s awesome that he honored his commitment after the Kelvin Sampson mess VJIII did too. Capo fits in a lot better with Valpo. He wasn’t quick enough to compete with Big 10 big men. Wow are we gonna be deep next year!

  34. Won’t the Big Handsome be a millionaire at this time next year? How about a quick student loan application, a scholarship opens, and problem solved. He could pay back the loan with his first paycheck from the Memphis Grizzzlies.

  35. Elston actually played more minutes his freshman and sophomore years(181 and 152 respectively) than last season(144). His overall shooting percentage was highest during his “injured” sophomore year(.512). He started shooting the long ball much better last season..He contributed some quick scoring punch with the 3-pt shots and all the excitement that revolves around a big hitting from the perimeter tends to leave the impression he was on the court more than the reality of the numbers.

    His average minutes per game had dropped from around 15 his first two years to 12 last season. How many minutes per game do you think he’ll see next year?

    He never really has seen much time on the court…We had nothing to lose but give him tons of PT his freshman year. I would have liked to see somewhere in the neighborhood of 25-30 minutes per game. We did not have a team that was going to contend for anything and I am of the opinion we lost on a great opportunity on a kid we knew wasn’t going to be playing in the NBA in 2 or 3 years after he entered college.

    Crean was never going to limit Rivers’ minutes. He was never going to limit the minutes his adopted “chosen one.” And who can forget Devan Dumes? We exchanged giving six more minutes per game to the elbow-throwing thug(averaged almost 18 compared to Elston’s 12) that gave us barely anymore point production(Dumes@ 6.6 ppg and Elston @ 5.8 ppg). Instead of investing in Elston’s potential, Crean chose a turnover machine, the son of an an NBA coach that couldn’t hit the side of a barn standing still, and a kid that could never keep his temper under control. That’s where Elston lost his extra minutes and where much his unrealized potential(especially getting his fast motor/mentality in tune with his skill level) was flushed down the toilet.

    Anymore questions? Probably not..Probably more childish insults from a couple impotent boys that will forever be locked in the lame elementary school tactics and name-calling their bullying mentality. One blogger uses his Jesus crutch his repressions and the other…? I have a feeling Laffy’s drive to insult must be from a hunger to be loved like no other.

  36. Okay you don’t have to bring this stuff up again Harvard. Elston isn’t very good I’ll admit that. He probably will get 3-5 min. of playing time this year. Peter Jurkin and Hanner Perea will come in before him.

  37. Guys,

    No need for insults from anyone.

    And I say that as someone who enjoys the insights (but not the incitements) from all of you.

    And Laffy, since you started it, why not write this instead:

    “Nobody know less about basketball than Hillbilly. (delete – unnecessary)

    Elston had his “minutes restricted” because he was screwing up….like virtually all big freshmen do. (good statement of opinion – keep it)

    It wasn’t because, as the idiot claims, “Crean hated him because he was recruited by Sampson.” (take out the words “the idiot” and put in the word “Harvard.” It is a fair commentary without the word “idiot” and makes your point just as well)

    And it also isn’t “Crean’s fault” that Elston didn’t do better his soph year…..the guy was HURT. (good point)

    Now you know why I skip over most of his posts. (unnecessary)

    Complete moron……. (really really unnecessary)”

    My point is that you can make your point without attacking Harvard personally — and it comes across just as well and, in fact, better without the vitriol.

    And Harvard, I know it ain’t easy to be insulted, but show him how to be better. Don’t respond in kind.


    Now, after trying to help out, everyone will probably come after me! But that’s ok. I really do like reading everyone’s thoughts. I’d like to keep you all on board.

    Disagreements are good. Insults not.

  38. Honor his commitment to Indiana?…Forgive me, but where in the f**k else was Elston going to go? He was from tiny Tipton…He was a diamond in the rough that Crean would have never recruited in a thousand years. Sampson liked kids that were atypical and brought some swagger with the talent.

    Crean’s first priority was Cody and honoring the rest of Cody’s bible-carrying and AAU friends. Etherington and Jurkin should have never been recruited. Jones should have been sent to a JC program after his obvious inability to to make sound and fundamental middle school decisions with the ball.

    Roth and Creek wouldn’t be made to feel like heels ..and Elston wouldn’t be on the “crunch bubble” if cronyism and Christianity was not part of the equation in Crean’s tactics to land his choice recruits. Why do you think he recently offered that kid out East? He’s after the friend…Same tactic he used to get Cody when he acted interested in Etherington. Calculating and conniving results in the ruthlessness we must employ to cut good kids that have honored their part of the deal.

    It will all work out fine. All we really care is we cast out the bad Sampson seeds brought to our sanctimonious village of hoops, get into the tournament on a regular basis, and the selling of Sunday school sweetened public image now in ‘born again’ B-town. Scholarship crunch is merely synonymous for a breakfast of any champion.

  39. Chet,
    Creek could receive need-based financial aid, but remember two things. No. 1, he’s an out of state student, so he’d need a lot more money. No. 2, as you’ve noted in the past, the people in the middle are the most screwed when it comes to getting financial aid. I’m under no impression that Creek’s family is rich, but I know his mom works and I’m sure his stepdad is gainfully employed in some capacity. I don’t exactly have their FAFSA form in front of me, but I can’t imagine he gets a full ride based on need. Plus, I’m sure there’s some consideration here for the injury and insurance and what not.

  40. Elston is, without a doubt, this team’s beating heart. It’s obvious that, playing or not, Elston is the connection that connects and powers the ‘us’ battery. On the floor or on the bench, every other player knows where Elston is.

  41. Why is McClain on the bench? Guy-Marc Michel…? Anyone?

    Are the methods beginning to become more clear? Here’s an idea…Let’s cut McClain(send him back to JC)…bump Cheaney up to assistant coach(one step away from the head job..Who wouldn’t like Cheaney in the head coaching slot if Crean gets caught with a blond cheerleader in a dark Taco Bell parking lot?)…then hire Creek(cut him from the roster) as a video coordinator and give him Mark Adams salary a year earlier his set graduation date.

    That’s my fix for cronyism.

  42. Why do you think Jurkin’s bad Harvard? He will be a good backup for Cody. Sure, he needs work but don’t most big men?

  43. ^Pretty outside the box, huh, Dustin? Bet you liked it. Too bad all your Elston insights didn’t take you there.

    Cut Etherington and McClain(they came by way of caboose on train)…Hire Creek adjunct-style as video coordinator or some other made-up title of official b-ball capacity. Keep Roth for his deadly 3-pt shooting ability and Elston fro his bad-ass tattoos(I call it scuffing up the Bible).

    Sounds good to me. We don’t even have to send Jurkin back to his Christian prep school. We all know how badly Don Fischer wants to say “Cody moves behind a Peter Jurkin screen.”

  44. Laffy’s right. Elston was hurt, very hurt. The difference between Elston’s play when he is hurt and when he is healthy is huge. Seeing him play healthy at the beginning of last year is probably what opened Crean’s eyes about Elston and made him decide he had a very, very good basketball player in his hands.

    Maurice Creek will be back. I believe that Crean is doing his best to motivate as full a recovery as possible because he understands the talent that is in Maurice. The comparison to a young Oscar Robertson is not overblown.

    And, Coach Buckley’s role on this team seems to be critical to the communication between players and coach. He will be critical for Perea and Durking in the same way he was the center of gravity for the improvement of Oladipo and Sheehey from players deemed “overrated” by several of the same contributors now putting others in their cross-hairs to the Hoosiers obvious energy source.
    I believe Buckley’s role with the players and in practice is critical.

  45. RT @grosenstein JaQuan Lyle on #IUBB: “I haven’t talked to them in a while.” about an hour ago.

    This tweet answers my question about Jaquan Lyle. My question is who is gonna be our next pg after Yogi’s gone?

  46. Guys, the elephant in the room is that IU has too many players and not enough scholarships to satisfy everyone. Simply discussing who is likely to depart the team or lose their scholarship is not being unkind or defamatory to the players. How one presents or justifies their opinion can be very unkind and inappropriate. Unfortunately, some of the participants on this string felt compelled to take the low road and used very unkind and inappropriate comments about some of the players. There’s no need to post nasty comments or attacks about a player’s skills when trying to express your opinion about which player might be leaving. I don’t think any of these guys are bad people or bad players. It’s just that some are more valuable to the team than others.

    If I’ve followed this string correctly, Roth walking on does not solve the problem. IU would still have one too many players. So, according to Dustin’s post #2, even if Roth is not on scholarship, one other player on that list is going to be without an IU scholarship next year, and may not be on the team.

    Let’s have a discussion without venting our spleens about the players. And let’s try to offer constructive opinions without infusing this string with more speculation about the players or coaches motives. Those comments are just absurd. No one has any idea what is going through the minds of the players or coaches. So unless they’ve been quoted by a reliable source, stop the ridiculous speculation about what their motives might be or what they might be thinking.

    Now, back on topic. I can’t imagine Elston being cut. He’s too big, can bang when he needs to, can step out and hit the three, and has too much experience. Therefore, he has too much value to the team. While Sheehey made a lot of mistakes last year, he improved a lot toward the end of the season and was obviously a huge contributor in the tournament. I believe he has too much talent and experience to be cut.

    By process of elimination, it’s got to be Etherington or Creek unless someone is unhappy and decides to leave voluntarily. And while it is an unpleasant situation, it is not abnormal. These things happen. I guess I look at it this way. If you are an underclassmen on the IU team, would you rather sit the bench for two more years or be a starter at another school? If these guys are competitive, and they realize that they are not going to get any playing time for two more years, I believe most would want the chance to play somewhere else. If not, then they’re not the competitive players Crean will want anyway.

    Transferring away from IU is not the end of the world. And whoever leaves the team, it won’t be the first time or the last time this happens at IU. Furthermore, if IU makes it to the final four next March, not too many people are going to be upset with Crean for cutting a player in August or September.

  47. Crean will mount himself on a cross before cutting Cody’s friend. Etherington isn’t going anywhere.

    Bottom Line: Roth and Elston are likely history…Elston is definitely on the bubble unless it is 100% obvious Creek will never play in a Division 1 basketball game again.

    There’s only one fix all are protected(except for Etherington)…

    Fire McClain now!..Move Cheaney up to Assistant Coach and Creek into video coordinator position… Let Austin Etherington take his game to IUPUI where it belongs(at best)…His credits should transfer.

    This is the best scenario…Roth, Creek(video coordinator), and Elston stay.

  48. All discussions of sports is speculation…I just heard Jim Rome on the radio last night speculating that the NBA draft was fixed. How can one not speculate on “motive” with many these subjects? Christ, when you recruit a center instead of a guard you have motive. We needed a center..Crean was motivated to land Cody…How does he make the kid feel more comfortable with his choice? Bring in his friend to Bloomington…Is it such a sin to suggest such a motive? It’s not like I’m claiming he paid Cody money or “fixed” the process. Is it ethical? That’s where final judgment rests with his true motive. Do I know for sure his true motive? Nope.

    If we can blame a housing crunch on a guy that makes $20,000 a year, then I can sure blame a scholarship crunch on some spinning of recruits in an attempt to land a prized investment for the team.

    If you don’t like speculation then become a weather man…There always right about the sun’s motive for coming up in the morning.

  49. Actually, I did not “start it.”

    Hillbilly does NOTHING but rip Crean’s character and I’m sick of it.

    And if someone is being a moron, I’m going to call them on it.

    He’s a f-ing idiot.

  50. Perhaps I’ve improperly characterized the Etherington/Zeller relationship.
    They’re close, there’s no question, and Etherington did a lot of work on Zeller, but he also did work on Perea and Ferrell for that matter. Etherington was basically the high school ambassador for Indiana for a stretch. Just calling him Zeller’s buddy is significantly understating his recruiting accomplishments from 2010-11.
    That being said, Etherington committed to Indiana more than 16 months before Zeller did. It’s not like Zeller was waiting for that to make a decision. The Hoosiers took Etherington at a time when they just needed somebody — anybody — in state to take their side and he is, at the end of the day, an accomplished high school player. I do think there’s some degree of loyalty to Etherington based on what he accomplished in that time, but he wasn’t recruited simply for the purpose of one day maybe getting Zeller. I’m not saying stuff like that never ever happens, but I’m saying they wouldn’t have taken Etherington if they didn’t actually think he was good.

  51. Of course he committed early..Wouldn’t you with an offer from Indiana knowing your good friend may change the entire landscape of Hoosier basketball?

    Listen to the videos at the Derby Classic(courtesy Inside the Hall) when each player discusses the other…Watch the smiles come across their faces and the body language. These guys were more than tea and crumpets on Sunday. They admire each other. They are roommates. Austin actually believed he could be a contributor…Cody called him a “good shooter.”.

    Let’s quit playing dumb, Dustin. You still haven’t answered if you like my ingenious fix for Captain Scholly Crunch. Fire McClain…Cut Etherington(he’ll be fine at IUPUI or Butler). Move up Cheaney to Assistant…Hire Creek as video coordinator and offer a salary so he can complete his education.

  52. And give it up, Jabba. I have opinions. I have a right to my opinions. You don’t want me to have that right without resorting to your childish name-calling.

    I saw you do the same in on other forums…You go from flesh to flesh like a rabid jackal. It’s your modus operandi. You like the taste of mine because they’re are some on here that actually enjoy my presence…heaven forbid.

    Don’t you enjoy my presence, Geoff? Chet? Tsao? Husky?
    Kellenberger? Anyone? Reggie? Save me, Reggie..Save me from the beast.

  53. Hmm? Like my presence? Anyone? Dustin? I’m hurt.

    Guess I best exit this thread with an old favorite tune.

  54. Just stop getting mad about Tom Crean’s character and you will be okay with everyone on the scoop. If you didn’t know some people are good people, like CTC.

  55. I enjoy your presence Harvard, but umm, yeah, what you’re suggesting is not going to happen. If Creek doesn’t play he can get a medical hardship waiver and not count against the 13. There’s no reason for McClain to be fired. (No seriously, he wasn’t just hired for Guy-Marc Michel. As much as they could have used him last year he wasn’t THAT big of a deal) And Calbert Cheaney obviously doesn’t want the head coaching job that badly because it was his if he wanted it. And I don’t know if Etherington will end up being the guy or not. He might, but I still think he serves a purpose for this group. I don’t think he plays much in 2012, but I think he does in 2013 and beyond.

  56. If we hired Creek as video coordinator(no medical hardship, just cut him from the team), could he still retain his eligibility to come back in a year? … Why not give the kid a job, let him get his education, and keep working at the possibility to one day return?

    Still say McClain was hired as a backdoor deal to get Guy-Marc…And wasn’t that two years ago(2009-10 season when we didn’t have Cody on the team?)..I’m pretty sure Guy could have helped us a great deal..Certainly more than Jobe..I also remember Osterman commenting after Guy’s debut in an exhibition game that he was far beyond someone you would call a “project.”..You see, Dustin, the damn problem you face is that I have one hell of a memory..

    Still say Etherington and Cody were beyond casual friends…Still say Elston was not very well accepted by Crean initially. Still say Crean is offering the kid out East to get his friend more interested in Indiana…Still say Jeremiah Rivers was brought in(and given far too much playing time)for a long shot at Austin.

    All that being said(deep breath), thank you..Thank you, Reggie…and thank you Dustin for taking the time out of your demanding schedule to say you enjoy Harvard’s presence. I don’t believe it for one second, but thanks anyway.


    You know a lot more about hoops than I originally gave you credit. Keep it up. Go mow a lawn. Good manual labor is the Devil’s poison(unlike blogging).

  57. I’m pretty sure he couldn’t retain his eligibility if he had a job in coaching, Harvard.
    It was 2010-11. And Guy was much better than a project, but he wasn’t a guy that you’d hire an assistant for the sole purpose of attaining. If IU had hired an assistant from Washington to get Zeller, that’s a different story. I don’t know if I could make this any more clear, but Crean LOVES McClain because they’re kindred, super-wired spirits. And at the end of the day, the hiring and firing of assistant coaches is the province of the head coach. If the head coach wants him, he’s qualified.
    Paragraph 3 certainly isn’t entirely false. But I think you’re kind of reaching on all counts. Jeremiah was still playing long after Austin had committed to Duke, and he was playing in large part because the team didn’t have a lot of good players and he could actually play defense. Any and all early squabbles between Crean and Elston had little to do with the fact that Elston had been recruited by Sampson. Crean wasn’t required to keep any of Sampson’s players, why would he have had to keep one of his recruits? Etherington and Zeller probably were beyond casual friends, but I don’t think that’s the sole reason Etherington was recruited.

  58. Don’t kid’s break commitments? Didn’t Eric Gordon break one? Austin should have broke his..He could have been playing for a national championship last year..A-hole picked a sure thing instead of a good thing.

    Dispute, dispute, dispute…the blogger of ill repute.

  59. Crean kept Elston because he was one of three guys(Elston, Pritch, and Roth) the fans would not buy into being lumped in with the rest of the Sampson players he labeled as druggies, thugs, and flunkies(paraphrasing, of course).

    Wasn’t Finkelmeier a Sampson recruit? Didn’t he also give up his senior year to make room for someone? I could be wrong..Finkelmeier was a decent defender..Root canal, anyone?

  60. And lastly…What did we attain(because you damn should attain something) by bringing in recruits that were such long, long, long, exceeding long,..drastically long projects like Jobe and Bawa?

    Are you attempting to tell me we had something better in post play proficiency to not bring in a quirky coach from Wyoming to save us from the embarrassment of two guys that had no business being on a Big 10 basketball court?

    Come on, Dustin. What risk was taken by hiring an assistant when we had nobody that could play in the middle to give Pritch some sort of viable help at the post? Cody had not committed and Crean needed a backup plan.

    I imagine Crean has as many coaching friends in Wyoming as Yellowstone has geysers. McClain is here because of Guy-Marc Michel. Nothing wrong with that…It’s not illegal.

  61. Do I dare say we brought in Jobe from A-Hope to get dibs down the road on Hanner? Strike me down with a bolt of lightning. There, I spelled it right for a God damn change.

    Anymore evidence required? Let’s send it to the jury. Summation over.

  62. You’re witnessing what your prissy, pious, Pollyanna ears don’t want to hear, Duke Porn.

  63. While I’m guilty of contributing to this thread I have come to the conclusion that trying to guess the fate of some kid is not a healthy discussion.

    Here’s what is probably happening. While we’re talking about this as if CTC is in his basement rolling dice to decide what direction to go, he probably had contingency plans for every possible eventuality before he ever offered any of these guys when they were in high school.

    He hasn’t done all this by leaving everything to chance.

  64. Harvard – I’m going to “unfriend” you if you keep stealing and posting pictures without my permission.

    I now understand what its like to be around a conspiracy theorist. I always just thought it was kinda funny before, but now I see how exhausting it can be. You can have your politically and religiously-motivated theories. I am naive, so I will continue to look for basketball reasons as to who will be gone and why…

    I got to the discussion late, so Dustin already made most of my points… Like Cheaney having no interest in a promotion.

    Oh, one other point of contention… Jim Rome did not speculate that the NBA draft was fixed. He expressed the fact that there are lots of people that speculate its fixed. Rome is personally smart enough to understand that isn’t the case, but he still represents the interests of his audience, and in doing so allows the commish to clearly and factually answer to why it is such a ridiculous notion. Unfortunately Stern chose to act like a 2nd grader instead.

    On that note, not that anybody here cares, but I contend that anyone who truly believes the NBA draft lottery results are fixed cannot have an IQ above 47.

  65. Chet, you are absolutely right…this discussion has gotten completely out-of-hand. The speculation serves no purpose at all, least of all for the Hoosier players (including the incoming freshmen) involved. Now, even the motives for Etherington’s friendship with Zeller comes into question. Maybe, it’s just one of those fortunate and loyal friendships we all hope to have at some point or another.

    Whatever the outcome we are all in debt to Creek, Etherington, Elston, Pritchard, VJ3…all those who played for us during the hard years and deserve to feel the glory of the many good ones, including last season. No throw aways among them. They’ve all represented us with honor and are part of Indiana’s history.

  66. I think whoever has the lowest GPA should have to pay their way this year. That seems like the only fair way to do it. If anything, these guys on the team know what is going on, and they will probably figure it out together. That’s what teams do.

  67. This year Roth and Mr.X get the boot. Next year based on current commits and continued recruiting at least 3-4 non seniors will either go pro or get the boot while CTC will continue to quote the Bible.Thank the lord!

  68. As far as a 5th year for Roth I have not heard that he has ever petitioned the NCAA for the medical red-shirt. Who really wants to bet on which way the NCAA decides? So there is no argument. The Creek factor has been the intangible for this years topic. Based on current commits if VO and/or CZ go pro after next season IU will either be even or 1 under the scholarship limit. If they do not then we are 1 over signed, not 3 or 4. Simple arithmetic provides there is no argument there either. Coach Crean please continue to quote the Bible if you are so inclined.

  69. All I had to read was #18 Chet. That is the reality. The rest of this crap is grasping at straws.

  70. HC,
    Roth would have no problem whatsoever getting a fifth year. If he had previously taken a redshirt year and were applying for a sixth year that would be a different story. By standard NCAA procedure, Roth would get a fifth year without a problem because he played just two games, which is well under what I believe is still a 20 percent threshold (if the threshold has changed, it’s increased). Again, he probably won’t stay and play a fifth year, but the suggestion that the NCAA would not grant it anyway is unfounded.

  71. 2 years ago CTC was happy if he could sign ANYBODY from Indiana! You can’t blame him for anything, he inherited a mess. He has done a great job turning the program around. He will continue to recruit a few one-and-dones, a few 4 stars, and a few 3 stars. CTC can take a 3 star recruit (D-Wade, VO) and turn them into NBA caliber guys in a few years. I would rather have a lot of 4 year guys than all one-and-dones like pUKe.

  72. Dustin, When it comes to betting on NCAA decisions on any topic I would not want to live on the difference they distinguish between a Yay or Nay. The point to my post was I have heard he has never petitioned the NCAA on his behalf. Maybe you can refute that. If he indeed has not there is no basis for anyone to make an argument.

    By the way did you ever read the article titled “BIGGIE and the PAC against the World” @ eleven Talk about multiples X’s $$$ those 2 are it.

  73. I think Roth could help are team immeasurably next year. It has nothing to do with honor. I sure hope he petitions for another year because he’s one of the most deadly perimeter shooters in the country. We finally have a point guard with speed and ball-handling skills that can be set-up guys for the outside arsenal.

    Why on earth would anyone want to run Matt Roth off…Run a bricklayer off. This isn’t Finkelmeier we’re talking about. This is points in bundles. Be a selfish fan and desire multiple weapons on a team where no opponent can take any spot on the floor for granted.

  74. RDG, no Remy Abell was not paying his way! He’s a sophomore to be. He was signed very late in the 2011 class. Many people questioned CTC signing him but it really payed off with the VJ3 injury. He developed a lot quicker than everyone thought too.

  75. TYPO, *”paying his own way” NOT “paying his way”. I don’t have a pUKe education.

  76. He developed a lot quicker than everyone thought too.

    Be careful with the use of “everyone” in that statement, Reg.

    I may have to go on a maniacal cut-and-paste episode.

  77. Wal-Mart is proud to announce the purchase of the USGA, NBA, NFL and Indiana University athletics. When asked, why purchase Indiana athletics a spokesperson for Wal-Mart remarked, we are attempting to shut down Downing’s 5th/Harvard For Hillbilles and other aliases. The Wal-Mart spokesperon went on to add that this person is wasting a lot of people’s time and his mother says he needs to come in and eat.

  78. It’s amazing how this Downing’s 5th name lives on. I haven’t seen it on Scoop since Kellenberger went to cover Ole Miss.

    My mom is dead. Only wish I could taste her magnificent cooking again.

  79. Anybody see the poster for the Tom Crean b-ball camp? It’s CTC with Eric Gordon and DJ White. How cool is that for keeping Eric and DJ in the IU fold?

  80. Chet-

    You know how many. I’m legendary.

    I also recruited Remy.
    Does this mean I’ll be blamed if Crean cuts him?

  81. After missing the spam question twice I have a request for Dustin…..Could you please get the T-shirt girl back on the ads.

  82. I second the T-shirt girl…Damn.

    Everybody post “T-shirt girl” in hopes the Google monkey thingamajigs bring her back. Would this be know as spanking the Google monkey?

  83. I second the T-shirt girl…Damn.

    Everybody post “T-shirt girl” in hopes the Google monkey thingamajigs bring her back.

  84. If Remy leaves I will tell CTC that it’s your fault, Harvard! I’ve met Tom Crean, Bo Ryan, Buzz Wiliams, John beilein, and Brad Stevens at the Fieldhouse in Fishers. I saw Tom Izzo but never talked to him.

  85. Oh, where to start.

    First, Crean said at Huber Farms Matt Roth accepted a position with a company in Missouri (Lilly maybe?), so i dont’ think he’s coming back.

    The obvious choice is Creek. I feel bad b/c he’s worked so hard, but face it he hasn’t played in what 3 years now? When he did come back after the first short injury he wasn’t anything near what he was his freshman year.

    Outside of Creek, i could understand Etherington. He’s probably going to see very limited minutes in his career in Bloomington.

    There’s absolutely no way its Elston. I can’t even believe someone would think that. He’s an experience, solid, big guy.

    For Harvard Hillbilly to even suggest Sheehey i think he deserves to be kicked in the nuts. Really? Sheehey? he is either a starter or the 6 man next year. Guy works hard and is a vocal leader on the team. Also talent wise he is also in the top tier half of our team.

    In regards to Jordy, when i heard the rumor it was that one of Jordy’s parents works at the university which would allow him to get either free or a discounted tuition. If that’s true he could walk on.

    Really does us no good to speculate. I will let CTC fret about it. He gets paid alot more than i do and this is why.

  86. A. Rumor, personal opinion, and speculation:

    First, Crean said at Huber Farms Matt Roth accepted a position with a company in Missouri (Lilly maybe?), so i dont’ think he’s coming back.

    Until you show a video clip or a transcript of Crean’s words, that’s nothing but rumor. The rest of that paragraph is personal opinion and speculation. There’s been nothing on Scoop backing up your suggestion Roth has accepted a new job. There’s been nothing on Crean’s Twitter page mentioning or expressing his “congratulations” to Roth. Most importantly, Roth could have easily put to rest any speculation his intentions by simply making an announcement his employment and his forgoing his eligibility. I would think Dustin would be aware of such an announcement and place the article on Scoop.

    B. More speculation and personal opinion:

    The obvious choice is Creek

    This may not be the obvious choice to you, but completely opposite the mindset of our coach’s beliefs based on what he wants to honor and what he’s seen in Creek’s progression/recovery.

    C. More speculation and more personal opinion:

    Outside of Creek, i could understand Etherington. He’s probably going to see very limited minutes in his career in Bloomington.

    D. More speculation and personal opinion:

    There’s absolutely no way its Elston.

    E. More of the same….blah..blah..blah.(More personal opinion and more speculation):

    Sheehey? he is either a starter or the 6 man next year.

    Lot of talent coming in. Lot of options for our coach. Why couldn’t Elston just as easily be the 6th man off the bench? By all accounts he’s healthy and his perimeter shot(based on last year’s stats) is better than Sheehey.

    Guy works hard

    Compared to who? Has Tom Crean said he works harder than anyone else on the team? If you’re talking about coming back from injuries, then isn’t there a great argument for Roth and Creek being two of the hardest workers on the team? Shouldn’t the perseverance it takes to come back from very difficult foot and knee injuries be rewarded? Jordy played a game while puking his guts out at halftime. Sounds like he works pretty hard.

    F. Admitted rumor, more speculation, and more personal opinion.

    In regards to Jordy, when i heard the rumor it was that one of Jordy’s parents works at the university which would allow him to get either free or a discounted tuition. If that’s true he could walk on.

    Yes, he could walk on. Doesn’t necessarily mean our coach thinks it would be the correct position to put Jordy and his family in.

    G. Complete hypocrisy… or you must admit you also enjoy the “good” in some bad speculation.

    Really does us no good to speculate.

    Summary: After taking your own big rumor and speculation dump, you conclude by declaring it’s really no “good” to fill the toilet with rumor and speculation. If it’s only Crean’s opinion that matters, then you should have kept your own blowhole shut, your foot off my testicles, and your stinky opinions left constipated to ferment on your hypocritical tongue.

    News Flash: You may think your opinion (along with crappy speculation and rumor) smells like roses, but it’s no different the rest.

  87. oops.

    B. More speculation and personal opinion:

    The obvious choice is Creek

    This may be the obvious choice to you, but completely opposite the mindset of our coach’s beliefs based on what he wants to honor and what he’s seen in Creek’s progression/recovery.

  88. …and you really ought to get your crap straight.

    Take a moment to watch the video clip of Crean at Huber Farms(Part 2)..Pay particularly close attention around the 3:25 mark of the clip. I’m pretty sure I’m hearing the name Daniel Moore. You tell me, wise guy.

  89. Harvard, why do you get offended over nothing? Getting bored from lack of content? Check out this link.

    To me Austin Etherington or Creek are the two that might not be playing next year. It would make no sense for anybody else to leave.

    Sheehey? Why would we even talk about Will leaving? He is one of the top 6th man in all of college basketball! He is incredible coming off the bench and a key contributor. Unlike most guys, he can get hot right away coming off the bench. He can dunk over big ten centers.
    He’s one heck of a hard worker who works his butt off to improve his game!

    Anybody who says Will should transfer or be cut from the team has no business blogging here and knows NOTHING about basketball!

  90. Attaboy, Reggie.

    I would most certainly take Roth’s outside shooting over whatever Sheehey brings that will already be replaceable by the incoming “Movement.”

    I also believe Creek should be given every opportunity to return.

    I don’t think it’s fair to ask any contributing player that was formerly on scholarship to pay his way to make room for the oversigns. I would cut a kid before insulting him to pay to stay. Sheehey would have the least problem landing on a competitive D-1 team.

    I don’t think Sheehey is a great defender..He’s a leaper and makes for a nice dunk highlight when he’s in the open court. He doesn’t go to the hoop very well in traffic(turnover prone) and his shot is very inconsistent. Christ, you act like the kid is Eric Gordon/NBA material…He’s too slow for the NBA. He was certainly better to have on the floor than Jones last year. When he substituted for Jones, the synergy of the team showed marked improvement. Then again, when anyone substituted for Jones, it usually meant more chemistry and better decision making on the floor.

    I completely understand this speculation game. You’re playing a game with good kids and treating them as if they were widgets. Sheehey and Etherington are the widgets I would choose to remove in order to honor the remaining year Roth deserves and the chance Creek deserves. We keep two guys that can shoot the ball. I like guys that can find the bottom of the nets.

  91. This Roth non-issue topic, would be an issue if MR had petitioned the NCAA for a 5th year of eligibility. Does anyone have proof he has taken that action? If he has not sought out that process then he is not playing anywhere. Apparently he has made his decision.

    MR more valuable than WS?? That is actually pretty funny. I suppose it is possible too for mosquitoes big enough to stand flat-footed and crap in a dump truck.

  92. Sheehey is not that good of a perimeter shooter..REad my sentence again in post 109..

    I would most certainly take Roth’s outside shooting over whatever Sheehey brings that will already be replaceable by the incoming “Movement.”

    Aren’t we getting some very good multi-faceted guys coming in with Hollowell and Patterson. Don’t they fill very similar roles in terms of moving between guard and small forward? Isn’t Patterson also supposed to be a fabulous defender. I see these guys getting a lot of minutes next year. We also already have Watford, Oladipo, and Elston that can bring considerable versatility in terms of getting into the paint and outside shooting(Watford and Elston both proving they have exceptional 3-pt range). Do you take Sheehey driving to the basket over a Remy Abell, Yogi Ferrell, or Victor Oladipo? Do you take his defensive abilities and quickness over Patterson and Oladipo? Do you take his ball handling skills over Hollowell, Yogi, Jordy, or Remy? Do you take his deep 3-pt. shooting touch over Roth, Watford, Hulls, or Creek(assuming he can come back)?

    When I look at our roster, I still see the need for the outside game. From clips I’ve seen of Yogi, I’m not convinced he’s a true deep threat. I’m not convinced he’ll be able to shoot over athletic bigger guards. I see him more as a phenomenal set-up guy for our high-percentage 3-pt. bombers.

    If you’re comparing Sheehey directly against many of his teammates, he’s going to do some things athletically in the open court that others don’t have the physical skills to accomplish. But in the context of the roster, I think we’re saturated with his style of game and there will be other incoming guys(in addition to VO)that can hit the quick pull-up jumper more effectively, defend better, and be less prone to turnovers when going into traffic while cutting into the paint.

    It’s all a mute point. I know he’s a fan favorite and a favorite of Tom Crean. He was very undervalued coming into IU and many think it was the genius of our coach to discover such a wonderful hidden prospect full of blossoming athleticism(much like VO). Will he ever be VO? I don’t think so. Is he a necessity on the roster with the type of guys coming down the pike? I don’t think so. Does his level of athleticism combined with his other basketball skills stack up to what’s coming to our team over the next two years? I don’t think so.

    I understand the odds are totally stacked against Roth and Creek being on our roster this fall. Doesn’t mean I believe they couldn’t be of great value to our team next season. I’m not counting Creek out. If Roth is not at IU next year, I’m willing to bet he’ll be wearing a uniform and draining bombs somewhere(maybe for Majerus at St. Louis). I’m also willing to be Sheehey won’t average more than 15 minutes per game next season.

    I know one thing for certainty. It was not Matt Roth that is moving to Missouri to work for Eli Lilly..I do believe my clip of Crean at Huber Farms has at least discredited that erroneous rumor(one of many that have surfaced repeatedly on this blog over the last two months).

  93. 2011-12

    Sheehey 8.6 ppg.

    3-pt percentage: .383 (only Oladipo and Jones with a lower percentage)

    free throw percentage: .704 (only Elston and Pritchard had lower numbers from the charity stripe for guys averaging over 8 minutes per game)

    Assists: 33 (one of the lowest on the team…barely one assist per game)

    Do those stats look irreplaceable considering the guys coming in that can play his style of game? Is his perimeter game irreplaceable?

    Remy had more impact in big games. I’ll take the quiet swagger of Abell over the guy that thinks he’s “Mr. It” and gets a ton of hype over pretty average numbers and a couple dunks. Jones also got a lot of hype over four years until many woke up and realized he was basically a JC level player.

  94. Agreed on Jones. He was a JUCO level player last year. It was only Will’s sophomore year. He has 2 more years to develop.

    He will probably have a bigger impact on the team his senior year since we are so loaded with talent this year.

    Yogi isn’t really a threat from the 3 point line. He is really quick though and can kick it out to our other guards.

    If VO develops a 3 point shot we are going to win the NCAA tournament next year.

  95. HC, I wasn’t saying it needed to die over the ‘mosquito’ comment. I actually visualized a giant mosquito. I just think the endless critique over who we could best do without doesn’t do anything good to anyone.

    I’ll greatly miss anyone who leaves.

  96. Harvard for Hillbillies

    You’re right i either mis-heard the speech at Huber or heard that somewhere else. sorry.

    Everything on this board regarding this topic is spectulation, opinons, and rumors. No one on here has a close personal relationship with CTC and knows exactly what’s going through his mind. I will, however, bet my next paycheck that Will Sheehey is on the team next year.

    Regarding the Jordy rumor. I only commented on this because others where talking about rumors they heard. I stated the rumor i heard. I even stated it was a rumor in my post and never once said there was any fact behind it.

    I’m not sure why you took my post to heart and felt you needed to lash out. I can only assume you think your thoughts, opinions, and speculation are greater than anyone else in the world. Well i’ve got a news flash for you. Your opinion is no better than mine, or anyone else’s. You need to grow up and learn how to accept that fact instead of lashing out against anyone whose opinions differ from yours on a freaking message board.

  97. Just to quickly clarify, indeed, it was Daniel Moore that got the job at Lilly, and neither one of Hulls’ parents works at the university. (Unless one of them got a job there in the last eight months which I highly doubt.)

  98. Thanks Dustin. Sustained.

    If anyone does want a bit of entertainment, watch Crean do a nice dig on Calipari…Start viewing this clip of Crean’s speech at Huber’s Winery/Farm(Part I) at about the 10:00 mark. Dustin, you should really post that excerpt on Scoop….It’s classic Crean. Priceless.

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