Indiana’s Bayer wins 1,500 meter national title

Andy Bayer knew when he approached the finish line of the 1,500 meters at the NCAA Championships in Des Moines, Iowa that he had a lead on Miles Batty from Brigham Young but that it was frighteningly minimal. It wasn’t even half a step, and that meant the Indiana junior had to prepared to fend off any move Batty would make.

Just at the end, Bayer realized Batty was going to dive at the line, so Bayer dove too.

Head first. On to the ground. Like he was stealing third base.

After skidding across the track at the finish line, Bayer got up believing that he had won, but there was no certainty in that for approximately 10 seconds This was the sort of finish that was the reason automated timing systems with video replay were invented, and officials needed to know whose chest crossed the line first.

Eventually that replay confirmed his initial instinct. Andy Bayer was the NCAA champion for the first time in the 1,500 meters, finishing in 3 minutes, 43.82 seconds. He became the first Indiana individual to win an outdoor national championship in a running event since 1993.

“I was pretty ecstatic after that,” Bayer said. “…It’s been the goal all year. It was pretty cool and definitely, I’m really pumped.”

Bayer, who had run the second best qualifying time in Thursday’s semifinal at 3:39.95, said the race took a relatively slow pace throughout the first three laps with each of the runners sitting back and waiting to see who might make a move. Bayer was comfortably positioned in second throughout most of it, and had plenty of life left in his legs for a kick in the last 200 meters, but so did just about everyone else,

“The whole field was still there,” Bayer said. “It was kind of a slow pace early on and I was in second, but I could tell there were still a lot of guys right behind me. I was a little nervous because everyone was still in it.”

He was still in second going into the final turn when Batty made a move around the outside with Bayer holding inside position, Bayer was somewhat pinned, but then made his move back out around Bayer and were neck-and-neck through the final 30 meters. Bayer just barely had an edge, which Batty tried to take from him by diving, but Bayer hit the ground to maintain his edge.

“It’s pretty exciting,” Bayer said.

Bayer’s victory was the highlight in a slightly disappointing weekend for Indiana. High jumper Derek Drouin had the next best finish for the Hoosiers with a second place in that event, but he was hoping for a fourth national championship in the event after winning the indoor title in 2010 and 2011 and the outdoor title in 2010. Drouin leaped 7 feet, 7 inches, but Kansas State junior Erik Kynard won with a leap of 7-8.

Senior De’Sean Turner placed seventh in the 3,000-meter steeplechase with a time of 8:46.04, earning All-American honors for the third straight time. However, he was the only other Hoosier to score, and Indiana finished in 11th place with 20 points after coming into the event as the third-ranked program in the country. Senior steeplechaser Andrew Poore had the toughest luck, suffering an ankle injury on one of the water jumps after coming in as one of the top-ranked competitors in the event. He gritted out the race, but finished in 9:25.95, finishing in last by almost 22 seconds. He had finished in 8:42.50 in his qualifying heat earlier in the week.

Junior Zach Mayhew finished in 14th place in the 10,000 meters to earn All-American honors, but that wasn’t good enough to score. Triple jumpers Rex Parker and Olu Olamigoke finished 13th and 14th respectively, which was also good enough for All-American honors but not for points.


  1. The IU website has pictures. Both runners gave the maximum effort. Congratulations to Andy and all of the All-Americans!

  2. Great, great job Hoosiers! You deserve our admiration. Great to be a high level national program. Congratulations to all.

  3. Posting this here because there is life after basketball (I think). Did anyone watch the Argentina vs Brazil soccer game in New York earlier today?

    That’s what soccer well played looks like and that’s why it is the most watched game on Earth. Lionel Messi has actually passed both Pele and Maradona as the greatest ever. He was spectacular today, three goals. The game was up and down, attack and hold on for the counterattack.

    Argentina won 4-3 (could have been 8-7 just as easy), but the score did not matter in the end. The winner were the 85,000+ or so in Giants Stadium (has a different name now).

    It was…the Beautiful Game!

    (BTW, one of the Argentine defenders is named Zabaleta…any family connection?)

  4. TTG, Glad you enjoy soccer and the game you referenced. On the other hand I fall in the group who thinks soccer is rather boring. Even when my kids played as youngsters soccer was only entertaining because they were competing and was more than pleased when they switched to other sports. I would much prefer to watch a track meet in lieu of soccer. I will give it it’s due in that you do not have to be 7′ tall or 7′ wide to be a star, it is relatively cheap to gear up to play and you have to be in shape or you’ll puke.

  5. HC…some feel as I do, some as you. Funny enough, while I love soccer, I absolutely can not sit through two minutes of a hockey game. Then too, soccer for me is great when the players are highly skilled. As much as I love it, a bad game as is the case with 85% of the college games puts me to sleep but I could say the same about a badly played game of basketball. (I once fell asleep high up on the seats of Memorial Stadium and had to ask a cop to let me out when I wole up-the gates were all closed).

    Then again, watching baseball for me was great when I wanted to take a Sunday nap. Guaranteed, four minutes and I was in a deep, deep sleep and would wake up around the 7th inning fresh, relaxed, rested. But eventually, I began to appreciate the subtleties of the game and their mix and understand that it really is a complex, intelligent game. Now I’m passionate about it (but, very sadly I’m a Cub fan which means I’m an expert on bad, overpaid limited skill players like Soriano and Soto). (Used to love to watch Maddux pitch his slow, slower pitches and Joe Girardi direct the show from behind the catcher’s mask).

    I absolutely loved track and field when I became knowledgeable as a teenager of records, (4 minute mile with Roger Bannister and John Landry, the 7+ jump, the 26 ft long jump- an IU man Greg Bell, and of course the relative meaning of times and distances- a high sschooler breaking a 48″ 4oo meter, a 1’55” half, a 6’10” high jump by a 5’10” high school kid).

    Same with swimming. I did not know c___p about swimming times but when Charlie Hickox or Mark Spitz swam it, I knew I was getting to see a great performance and got excited. And, I knew the person doing it is/was an uncommon and super human being that could do extraordinary things.

    Not sure what this all means at all. Still when I have a stake in the game…Indiana, my Indiana; my son playing, me coaching, my daughter in Ultimate Frizbee I’m all in. And from Knight, I learned to love the strive for perfection, the struggle of the truly great athlete who works to do something perfect he knows he never will. That’s something.

    That’s why I love the way the game is played as a whole team (and the ability of some to become the not so great player who multiply to make a great team makes me passionate; while the dunk shows themselves remind me of my parents taking me to the circus, it wasn’t as much fun as my parents thought. I mean, there’s no reward for smacking the ball on the top edge of the backboard; but, a 6 foot kid consistently scoring two from 30-40 feet out or working to get the ball to the open man…that’s exciting and art. And consistently keeping him from doing so…that’s exciting as h—l and art too.

    That’s what I love about soccer (basketball, football has its own beauty, baseball and all the individual competition sports that pit one human against another and against himself/herself or an objective determined by time and distance).

    And, I do appreciate the fans like you who understand the art and the seeking of perfection in fans and are able to resist the temptation to turn it all into meaningless numbers that measure everything in terms of the average or the tendency while missing the struggle.

    Wow…yours was a great, great comment. It went right to the heart of the question of why we like some and can’t stand other sports. I think that;s partially why we are Indiana fans…Indiana has always done a good job of looking at the entire realm of human competition. Thanks for making me think about something that is very important.

  6. HC…an error from force of habit…

    where I said “…but, a 6 foot kid consistently scoring two from 30-40 feet out or working to get the ball to the open man…”, should have read “…but, a 6 foot kid consistently scoring two or three from up to 30-40 feet out or working to get the ball to the open man for the shot…”

  7. Soccer is very popular where I live but I’d rather watch paint dry. I guess I’m just not a cosmopolitan kinda guy. The only thing I could imagine being more boring would be watching golf on the tube. How in the hell did that get to be televised?

    I won’t watch hockey on TV but I really enjoyed the few games I went to. We had a minor league team here in town for a while (goon league) with one Gretzky as coach and another on the ice. Gretzky jerseys for sale in the lobby, of course. The Great One showed up to watch his brothers from time to time.

  8. Not surprised Chet. Sounds like you’ve never seen a good game with 11 players on each side all of whom have great skills. The US is just emerging so the skill issue is still marginal at best and most coaches who coach here did not play the game themselves so their coaching emphasizes what they learn from books. You cant’ say to a kid, ‘do it like the picture’. That’s why it is so important the Todd Yeagleys got into coaching, they were the first generation that grew up with a soccer ball on their foot.

    And, it also sounds like where you live can’t possibly help the development of the game. Any pass that is just a bit long you got to chase it 2 1/2 miles down the hill. There’s nto a whole lot of great soccer players coming from the Andes mountain side of Argentina either.

    As to hockey, people love the fight. Who can follow the puck? They should make it more fan friendly. Strip all that uniform, (paly in shorts) redesign the stick into a hatchet (metal edges), have the coaches coach players to head the puck the puck in the goal and like soccer, substitute only three times total the entire game. Oh…and wire fences would make the fan feel closer to the game. You could then reach out and grab a player as he goes by at 83 mph.

    (Talk about colorful…imagine the ice turning red over an entire game…God that’s sexy!)

  9. TTG, I much enjoyed post #5. It means almost nothing but for what it is worth I have a cousin who won the Indiana State high jump title, circa 1965. I believe he cleared 6’5 7/8″. Earned a scholarship to PUke and after 1 semester was so homesick returned home to raise cattle, which he still does to this day. He knew what he wanted to do early on. If all the state champions of Indiana had their end games collectively gathered in 1 book it would make quite a read. Sometimes I wonder about some of those past T&F champions, Jerry Saffel(hurdler)who regularly broke starting blocks and hurdles if need be, Bernie Rivers(sprinter)who ran to win never worried about racing times or training for them, Clyde Peach(sprinter)who would have been a good match race for Rivers and Lloyd “Hoppy” Thompson(miler)who never made it to the state finals for a myriad of reasons, came from a very broken family, never trained, many days did not make it to school on time or at all but in at his Senior sectional ran a 4:19 mile(I was there)to beat a state favorite, he simply out-gutted his opponent in his last race. He graduated and joined the Army. One day after a PT test he was informed by a DI that if he had run his test mile 6 seconds faster he could have earned a chance to qualify for the Army T & F team. He near begged them to allow him to run another mile immediately after running the first one but to know avail. He said he had jogged in fatigues and boots a 4:41 mile. What stories there are out there.

  10. HC…God you are exactly right…the history of Indiana HS track is just incredible and I’m going back to the period between 1958 and later. Let me try my memory without checking, Bernie Rivers I think was an East Chicago kid or thereabout, Saffel from Ft. Wayne, Clyde Peach definetly Ben Davis in Indy and, of course, with CLyde and Bernie you have to add Larry Highbaugh who came within .02 of the national 100 yard record and then ran at Indiana. I believe Highbaugh is related to one of our football players now, perhaps Robertson. Jim Lavery and Bill Perrin ran one great program at IU.

    The one who stumps me inThompson. Don’t remember him, but a great high school buddy of mine, John Knapp was a great half miler (1:54-1:56) and ran the mile also around 4:20. The mile relay had 5 sub .50 quarter milers. We used to go all over the state to the big meets, Anderson, Kokomo,Lafayette Jeff, Richmond, Fort Wayne, Jeffersonville, New Albany and once a year venture into the region where Gary Roosevelt, Gary West, East Chicago Washington were constantly turning out national level runner. The amazing thing is that because of the weather, there was little to do until March except run the school halls and still could practically match California and Arizona for national level runners.

    Great memories…just great memories. My happies moments were traveling on the school bus (we considered ourselves a big deal because the school actually leased a big over-the-road bus rather than embarrass us with a yellow one.

  11. HC- add…who can forget the great, great day (or regionals and semi-state) that was the state meet at Indianapolis Tech? Wow!!

  12. Chet, was there a kid named Hurd, a quartermiler at Jeffersonville or New Albany? This guy was an international level mid sprints, int the 40’s for the 400.

  13. Don’t know about him but at one time when I was in hs we had the fastest male and female quartermilers in the country at the same time, Tommy Hughes and Cindy Sedgwick. I don’t know where Tommy ended up but his brother, Dickie, was a hurdler for the Hoosiers.

    Years later my wife met Dickie at a reunion and he was a mountain of a man, probably 6’5″ maybe 265. My wife just looked at him and said, “You were a hurdler?”

    Jeffersonville has a long and storied history. The city was founded by George Rodgers Clark and, in the library, is the original layout of the city drawn by Thomas Jefferson.

    The Falls of the Ohio made it a natural stopping point for much a the westward expansion. The Lewis and Clark Expedition of Discovery trained near there for a year before setting out. Aaron Burr plotted his overthrow of the government from there.

    They have a long history of shipbuilding. In fact, if you see a paddle wheeled ship built in the past 100 years it was probably built in Jeff.

    The high school was founded in 1882 and their football rivalry with New Albany goes back 108 years. I’d guess it’s the oldest such rivalry in Indiana.

    While things have gone in cycles I was happy to see, on my last visit, that they have beautified the riverfront and restored many of the old river homes to their past glory.

  14. Chet, Pretty good stuff about Jeffersonville. History is deep down there and I love it.

    TTG, Saffel was from LaPorte and wanted to qualify for the 400 intermediates of the “64” Olympics. After graduating he went to Wyoming on a FB scholarship as a TE(he was 6’1″-190lb. with speed and stamina)and was injured at the time of the O trials training period. I won’t bet big money but I thought Peach was from Brebeuf. Thompson was a local phenom from LaPorte County. I knew him personally. He was a competitor when the chips were down.

  15. Regarding the Jeffersonville-New Albany football rivalry, at one point New Albany held a 68 year streak without a loss. I played on the team that won the first in the series for Jeffersonville (I believe we won 34-0) in front of an estimated 20,000 fans on New Albany’s field.

    Since that time Jeffersonville has dominated the series.

  16. Anybody been watching the Euro Cup? Spain, Italy was an awesome match. Soccer or Futbol is the world’s most popular sport. I’d rather watch paint dry than watch baseball. Wow, Tsao you should have concentrated on soccer as a kid and you could have played at IU! I respect the people that play a boatload of sports but I only play 2 myself. I really love basketball but I’m starting to get D3 and NAIA interest in soccer at my high school. Most kids in high school who want to play a particular sport in the NCAA need to put all their time and effort in that one sport.

  17. MLB is their own worst enemy. They start playoff and World Series games at 9:00pm on a week night and then they wonder why a generation of young people don’t care about baseball.

    They are so resistant to change. Meanwhile the NFL is a juggernaut constantly changing with the times.

  18. By that rationale, Chet, isn’t their problem that they change too much? Obviously, they didn’t always play postseason games at 9 p.m. and they changed in order to accommodate West Coast viewers. Or really everyone. I think everyone in my generation heard stories from our parents about bringing transistor radios to school to listen to the World Series during class.
    Football (and actually now that I think about it, European soccer as well) have, in terms of perception, an intrinsic advantage over the rest of the major sports because they only play once a week and every game is an event. If you’re going to play every day, you have to account for the fact that you live in a country in which there are four time zones and the two biggest cities in terms of population are seprated by 3,000 miles and a three-hour time difference. You have to make a decision about what half of the country you’re going to tick off. The NFL doesn’t have to worry about what time people get off work. The MLB and NBA know that starting too early costs you the vast majority of the west coast viewership and that Eastern time zone dads can absolutely be talked into letting their kids stay up until midnight to watch baseball playoffs. (Or at least my dad could. Particularly when the Pirates were in it once upon a time. Those games were sacred.) Better to hope they begrudgingly watch while complaining than to lose the West Coast altogether.

  19. I did choose the one example of how they have changed, didn’t I?
    Let me ask you this, what do you think the proportion of serious baseball fans reside west of St. Louis? Those rabid Mariner, Padre, Rockies, Royals fans.

    Which do you think is more likely, a west coast fan turning on a game at 5pm or an east coast fan staying tuned until 1:00am on a work/school night.

    It has nothing to do with placating the fans, anyway. It is entirely because the networks cannot charge prime time rates at 5:00 in the afternoon. They simply want to air the game where they can get the most prime time revenue in the most cities.

    Follow the money.

    The Pirates used to be really good back in the day. Willie Stargell played his Class A ball in Asheville.

  20. I can remember the teachers letting us watch the ’67 Series between Boston and St. Louis on television.

    That was back when people actually cared about baseball.

  21. You did, of course, conspicuously leave out Dodgers and Giants fans from that list. Obviously, Dodger fans tend to bail out of Chavez Ravine early, but there’s still an interest.
    Obviously, it’s all about money. It always is. But isn’t that how people measure whether or not they’re changing with the times? People and industries don’t decide they’re not properly changing with the times until the bottom line tells them they aren’t. Once the money flow slows, they adapt until it speeds up again.

  22. The Dodgers can’t give away tickets when they don’t have a contender.

    I did spent a sunny afternoon watching the A’s host the Brewers once. Third row behind home plate. Billy Martin at the helm. Great fun.

    Baseball is best when played in the sunshine.

    I know one person that I would consider a baseball fan on the level that most people I know follow NFL football or college basketball.

  23. I know for a fact that jr. high and high school kids around central Indiana will stay up until midnight to watch Sunday night football. Baseball, not so much. Of course most people in Indiana will watch the NBA Finals regardless of the day and time. Most people in Indiana are bandwagon fans. I think schedules in almost any pro sport are going to favor the west coast though.

  24. HC…I’m still laughing…you see what five decades do to a memory. But I do remember Clyde Peach very well though somehow I thought Ben Davis and may have forgotten he was Brebeuf. And, I do have a much clearer recollection of Saffel as a stud and a half. (You can’t say that today, P.C.). The 400Intermediates is a man’s man event. You have to have incredible stamina AND speed plus really work your form and technique. The last two hurdles always feel like they are moving away from the lead leg and jump up at your hind leg.

    Our high school coach, one of the very great ones, used to take us to AAU meets in Fort Wayne and in Dayton, O. in the summer to keep the good ones working out and to make sure they were seen by college coaches. Western Michigan then had 3-4 of us visit there. We were shown around by a great sprinter named Ira Murchison (09:3).

    Thompson, I sort of (kinda cloudy), remember the name mostly. Talking about LaPorte, did you know a Ken Plantz who coached (basketball and track) and taught (biology, I believe) there (1970’s)?

  25. Chet, for a couple of years I lived in loo-vull and remember the Jeffersonville/New Albany history regarding the falls of the Ohio and your recollection of the Rogers and Clark base there. Also remember that boatyards and boat building were very important. At the time I was there was about the time it was becoming obvious boatyards were going out of business. Sad.

  26. “The 400 Intermediates is a man’s event”

    Hey, my baby girls runs the 400 hurdles…and the heptathlon. She is an Amazon, I must admit.

  27. If you graduate from IU in 1980, go to work for a pharmacy store chain, you the quit, how do you join the Navy and still end up behind home plate in 1982 to watch Billy Martin coach the A’s?

  28. Dustin…just for accuracy’s sake(we don’t follow soccer here in the US, so there’s no reason to know this). European (and South American and Central American and African) soccer usually have 2-3 competitions going on at once. The national championships are usually once-a-week, but then, added to this is the intercontinental cups (the European championships, the Eurocup, the Libertadores Cup, the CONCACAF) so the teams end up playing 2-3 times per week for most of the year. Football is the only team sport I know that is played once-per-week and I think it is more a factor of the economics- the cost of the size of the teams- than anything else.

    Part of the issue may also be that soccer only allows 3 subs per game (a rule that was changed to free substitution in college here by the NCAA in their ridiculous wisdom- among other things it made the financing of teams much more expensive).

    A fundamental difference is that soccer tests speed, skill, endurance. You wont find any football linesmen running more than 30 yards, backs and receivers more, but soccer players regularly run/walk/sprint 4-7 miles per game and do do it 2-3 times per week. Basquetball requires the same per game output but it is mitigated by the free substitution rule. Now we watch ‘platooning’ as an innovation in coaching. Unfortunately (in my opinion) it takes away one of the beauty parts of the game, the change of pace, the methodical approach that used to allow individuals to replace some athleticism with intelligent and is gradually turning the game into a skate-less version of hardwood hockey.

    I use to love watching an over-matched athletically team use ball control and intelligence to neutralize the strictly run-and-gun game. I used to love to watch IU get an 8-point lead and spread the floor and work the ball 14-18 passes before shooting. That game would have been perfect for a Hulls since their best asset is skill. The shot clock took away the beauty of intelligence as a defining skills in basketball. And, it was done for the same reason the NBA wants the one and done…to sell hot dogs and beer.

  29. Plus Dustin…when 6-7 of your players on the field, for half the plays of a game, are moving or doing something in spurts of no more than 15 seconds, maybe 30-40 times in one game as in football you’ve got to give them a week’s rest or they’ll demand portable potties with futons at the fifty. Try multiplying that, (15 seconds)X (40 times)/60 (seconds in a minute)= 10 minutes of total physical movement in a game (other than walking back and forth to the sideline to get some Gatorade to replenish all that spent energy and cover themselves with ice.

  30. Hey Tsao,
    The point was not at all to disparage soccer or to suggest that they should play more. It’s an exhausting game, I’m certain, and I’m not at all suggesting that soccer players should be required to play more than they do.
    But that didn’t have anything to do with my point. My point was that if you don’t play that often and you keep much of the action to the weekends, then from an administrative standpoint, you don’t have to concern yourself with the effect of the time zones as much in terms of scheduling. The NFL will always have the advantage over the MLB, NBA, NHL and every other league that attempts to play every day or most days because the NFL plays almost exclusively on Sundays when most are off work and the MLB, NBA and NHL have to schedule around the 9-5 workday. When it reaches playoff time and they are looking for a national audience, they have to recognize that the 9-5 workday in the west coast is 12-8 on the East Coast. I’m not suggesting the NFL should start playing five days a week because that’s insane. I’m also not suggesting that the MLB and NBA should cut the schedules and make an all-weekend season because that’s not a good idea either. Just saying that the different dynamics mean that you can’t use one as the model for another and tell the MLB and NBA that they need to be more like the NFL. It’s, to use the cliche, apples and oranges.

  31. The shot clock is 35 seconds… That is plenty long enough. To think that the shot clock took the “skill of intelligence” out of basketball has got to be one of the single most foolish things stated on this site.

    It does take the boring out of basketball. And it does allow for talent and athleticism to be more important. It also means that players and coaches have to make faster and better decisions in less time. There is nothing intelligent about a four corners offense. You can teach it to pre-school kids and have it run to a T.

    What takes mental toughness and intelligence is understanding that you have a relatively short period of time in which to accomplish a goal, and during that time you will have an adversary pressuring you in an attempt to stop you from your goal, and you have to make correct split-second decisions or lose.

    What’s easier, taking a 100 question test with no time limit, allowing you to ponder each question deeply, or taking that test in an hour? You have to either be a lot more naturally intelligent or far more prepared to pass the second test.

  32. There’s 82 games in a regular NBA season. There’s 16 games in a regular NFL season. It would be impossible for the NBA to have a schedule similar to the NFL. We shouldn’t even be discussing this.

  33. Tsao, in pro soccer 3-7 substitutes may be nominated but only 3 can be used. Also, the player that has been substituted CAN NOT come back into the match again.

  34. Number of substitutions

    Official competitions

    Up to a maximum of three substitutes may be used in any match played in an official competition organised under the auspices of FIFA, the confederations or the member associations.

    The rules of the competition must state how many substitutes may be nominated, from three up to a maximum of seven.

    Other matches

    In national “A” team matches, up to a maximum of six substitutes may be used.

    In all other matches, a greater number of substitutes may be used provided that:

    the teams concerned reach agreement on a maximum number
    the referee is informed before the match

    If the referee is not informed, or if no agreement is reached before the match, no more than six substitutes are allowed.

  35. And I didn’t think you were disparaging it; not surprised you are not versed in it since you have little professional need to follow it. I understand that. In reality, the game has to be understood across the board beyond the narrow perceptions we have here… In this case, Europe covers several time zones and teams are frequently going east and west between London and Moscow, Paris and Budapest, Barcelona and Warsaw and Lisbon and Leningrad or Kiev. North and South they have to cover from Oslo to Palermo or Marseilles and, in addition to time zones administrators have to worry about passports and visas (somewhat better in parts now with the European Union).

    In the Americas it is geographically even more complicated since teams in Argentina frequently have to play in Ecuador, teams in Brazil in Chile and teams in Venezuela in Buenos Aires for the annual Libertadores Cup. Even within one country, teams have to travel north and south and worry about often going across the Andes’ 22,000 foot mountain and running for 90 minutes in La Paz, Bolivia (10,000 feet+), Quito, Ecuador and Mexico City, all much higher than playing in Denver. And, much of that is done with a poor infrastrcuture in many countries.

    In fact, a funny story is to read what happens to good teams that play in La Paz, Bolivia. Often, they will win at home say 4-0 and lose in La Paz 3-0. You literally should be allowed to carry an oxygen tank on your back and you can actually see the tinge of blue in some of the players from the ‘low-lands’. The same is true in Europe, say if you are playing in Switzerland. Until very recently, FIFA (the world’s soccer authority body, would not even allow World Cup qualifiers to be played in La Paz. (BTW, international playoffs whether at the club or national levels are usually played in a home and away format between two teams and an aggregate score is used).

  36. Reggie, thanks. That was exactly my point. That in soccer you are only allowed to ‘relieve’ three players for whatever reason.

    However, your reference to ‘A’ team matches, the rule you cite is for ‘friendlies’, not for competition matches such as the World Cup, where the limit of three total substitutions is enforced.

  37. Geoff- I wrote: “…. Unfortunately (in my opinion) it takes away one of the beauty parts of the game, the change of pace, the methodical approach that used to allow individuals to replace some athleticism with intelligent (should have been intelligence) and is gradually turning the game into a skate-less version of hardwood hockey.

    I use to love watching an over-matched athletically team use ball control and intelligence to neutralize the strictly run-and-gun game. I used to love to watch IU get an 8-point lead and spread the floor and work the ball 14-18 passes before shooting. That game would have been perfect for a Hulls since their best asset is skill. The shot clock took away the beauty of intelligence as a defining skills in basketball.”

    Among the skills you need to bone up in, allow me to suggest “reading skills”, a much undervalued (by some) but very thought provoking and useful skill.

    Geoff, you are trying way too hard…shouldn’t obsess so much with me. Calm down. I’m beginning to think you’re in love. I am too old, and you write of having a great wife. Stay with her…I would bring you nothing but heart ache.

  38. icycrat, uh, surprisingly the Navy actually gives you vacation time.

    In fact, I got a hop on a P-3 Orion out of Cecil Field in Jax and flew to NAS Alameda, so the flight was free. My old roomie from Bloomington was living out there. I visited the Bay area many times during that period.

    I did other things while I was in the Navy that did not involve the military life, as well. If you have a green military ID and you don’t travel the world on their dime you have no one but yourself to blame. The Air Force’s Military Airlift Command is in Belleville at Scott AFB. It’s the military’s version of an airline. They delivery personnel and equipment all over the world. If you can get a hop to Scott you can catch a flight to anywhere. All you had to do was show your ID, sign up for space available and wait.

  39. Tsao – I directly quoted the last sentence of the post you decided to re-write.

    “The shot clock took away the beauty of intelligence as a defining skills in basketball.”

    FALSE STATEMENT and foolish opinion.

    I read your comments very closely, because I often do respect what you write (or love you, whatever you want to believe). But that was silly.

    35 seconds is a long time. There is ZERO need to ever revisit that rule to make it longer. If a team wants to make 14 passes, they still can in that offense – one pass every two seconds and they’d still have about 5 seconds to get off a shot. Thats how long 35 seconds is…

    The shot clock did not take any intelligence factor out of the game. If anything it forces teams to be MORE intelligent and efficient if they are less athletic.

  40. Thank God for the shot clock. At its worst you had Dean Smith’s four corner offense (has any highly touted tactic ever lost more games?) resulting in half time scores like 7-0. He would regularly get booed for an entire half.

    The shot clock saved the game from that crap.

  41. Geoff, I changed nothing but replacing one word ‘intelligent’ with ‘intelligence’ when I realized I had not used the noun form. (and said so in the parenthesis next to it). Other than that, the two graphs were the same…copied verbatum.

    Opinion is just that. Have your opinions…that’s the point, just don’t obsess with mine. While not particularly a fan of four corner-post offense either, I did love the motion offense when it was protecting possession of the ball and running clock. As I said, I much prefer the challenge to a more talented team that a more intelligent team provided. Thank God schools like Butler are still sustaining that version of the game.

    As to the NBA, I haven’t watched more than 5 minutes of NBA basketball at one sitting in well over 5-8 years. For me, the NBA game is absolute, non-refutable proof that you can not bore a man to death.

  42. For me, the NBA game is absolute, non-refutable proof that you can not bore a man to death.

    …said the man that blogs 6500 words per day while his probing butt-crack hairs root into his chair seat.

  43. Harvard, you’re right except for the number of words. This wheelchair just isn’t very comfortable but we accept what we’ve got, are grateful for the mobility and don’t let anything paralyze us emotionally. In terms of self-esteem, couldn’t be better, no self pity whatsoever. It’s all good!

  44. I know you copy and pasted. Wasn’t saying anything other than I read each word, and addressed your conclusion.

    Making 14-18 passes doesn’t take intelligence. It takes patience. The purpose of making passes is to get a quality shot. Stalling, especially as a tactic used outside of special end game scenarios, is boring for players as well as fans. I love frustrating a team, and my record over the course of my life against teams that if you walked into the gym and based the outcome on lay-up lines we’d be huge underdogs, is probably over 90%. If it weren’t for intelligent play I wouldn’t stand a chance against most of the people I play, so spare me the lecture on its importance and beauty. But as I stated a couple times, the true measure of basketball IQ is being able to have high quality possessions when under duress and within a time limit.

  45. I tend to believe high basketball IQ is also understanding the intangibles in a game and how it can effect an outcome. The object of the game is to win. Stalling can force a superior opponent into having fewer high quality possessions. When they have fewer possessions, each possession becomes more meaningful….character and headiness under pressure begins to play in…frustration can set in..Suddenly, the so-called “underdog” is neck-and-neck with you at the end of the game. Stalling can be a very high quality possession. NBA teams stall all the time to protect a lead late in games…Using the full shot clock(no matter 24 or 35 seconds) is a subtle form of stalling. If you have crisp ball handlers and you’re a better foul shooting team, it can have enormous advantages.

    One could also argue that the near freakish athleticism that is taking over the the college and NBA game is removing some of the craftiness and grace from the game. The prima donna attitudes some of the superstars also makes for excessive one-on-one play(e.g. HEAT = LaBron or Wade show). Doesn’t necessarily make for more exciting basketball or something masterfully choreographed on the maple.

    That being said, I personally still enjoy watching the NBA. I loved watching it as a kid and many my sports heroes growing up were part of the NBA(Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Gale Goodrich, Jerry West, “Tiny” Nate Archibald, “Stormin'” Norman Van Lier, Chet “The Jet” Walker, Bob “Butter Bean” Love, Walt Frazier, Earl “The Pearl” Monroe)..I grew up near Chicago and was always a big Bulls fan..I wa mesmerized by the clutch performances and unstoppable abilities of MJ in the 90s….My favorite player from the past is still Dr. J. Julius Erving had a game I have yet to see replicated/imitated..He had unbelievable grace going to the hoop. Erving was so deceptive..He could contort in mid-air and rap around the back of the glass making reverse layups with all the lightness a floating feather.

    I’m a sucker for the exceptional talent. The game has strayed a bit from the unique characters I remember as a kid. It’s more about physical dominance and speed + power…The varied and fun personalities seem to be fading from the NBA game.

    Despite all the changes, I still don’t understand how anyone can’t appreciate just how gifted and rare the phenomenal abilities in these guys. What a treat it was to watch Eric Gordon play at IU. Such unbelievable explosiveness ….such unbelievable advancement in all the skills when I watched him as a freshman. He’s had some setbacks with injuries in his early NBA years, but I still believe he is one hell of a talent that will be noticed if he ever lands on a stronger team.

    Overall, I actually think the NBA product has improved in the last decade. There’s a lot of young teams that are high energy and there seems to be a real shift in power going on. My dad is in his late eighties and cannot get enough of the NBA…He’s just the opposite of Tsao and Chet. He finds the college game very dull. I tend to enjoy it all..I love high school ball, college, and professional.

    Tsao- Bad taste on my part. It’s that damn hostile side coming out again. A measure of a man has nothing to do with methods he moves about. Has a lot more to do with staying true when others run and make for easy escapes honor and responsibility. I’m just a good for nothin’ that uses Scoop to pretend he’s somethin’.

  46. …and that Oscar Robertson guy…

    Did you know…when Pete died prematurely they did an autopsy? He had nor right coronary artery. The RCA supplies the right ventricle, 35% of the left ventricle and, in most people, the SA node (where the heartbeat generates from).

    There’s no way he should have ever been alive in the first place. His body grew collateral blood vessels to a degree that he could be an NBA great but, eventually, nature took it’s course.

    You just aren’t supposed to be walking around without a right coronary artery.

  47. Harvard, I agree very close to 100% with your take. Creating the proper tempo, and stalling within todays’s shot clock constraints, are essential tools in every teams bag. I just disagree that it takes above average basketball IQ to stall. All any coach has to do is call a time out and say, “we need to either get an uncontested lay-up or we need to shoot in the last 5 seconds of the shot clock.”.

    It is much more difficult to (and therefor cerebral) to get a good shot than to not try to get a shot at all for 20 or 30 or 300 seconds.

    I could care less about having the NBA vs college discussion. To each is own. They are two separate styles – both have their good points and their unwatchable moments.

    I think that basketball has always been a game of IQ versus athleticism however. The degree of the athleticism may have changed along with the size of the players, but I’d argue that has only put more of a premium on IQ for the players who don’t quite fit that mold (Nash, Rondo, Paul, Duncan, Ginobili, etc.) and when you get one that is both crafty and a freak athlete watch out – Lebron & Jordan…

  48. I can still remember, as a kid, watching Pete light up Kaintuck for 64 points. Had there been a three point shot he would have had 80.

  49. You are right Chet about PPM I also would have liked to have seen our old nemesis Rick Mount with a 3 point shot rule. Hell there was many times he barely crossed the 10 second line and would light it up. I expect they were the reason there was no 3 point shot then.

  50. I don’t know about that. That was an ABA thing. We can thank the ABA for making basketball more entertaining in general.

    The ‘no dunk’ rule in college WAS brought in because of one player, Lew Alcindor.

  51. Correct and Alcindor was a power, game shaper and factor for game rules. That is why I stated the point about PPM and RM maybe having something to do with a college 3 point shot never being in the conversation.

  52. Tsao, I forgot that national “A” team matches are friendlies. FIFA has the authority to modify the laws of the game. You’re correct, in any type of tournament under FIFA rules only 3 subs are allowed. This could possibly be changed in years ahead, but it’s not likely. In high school and college it is always unlimited substitutions.

  53. You just aren’t supposed to be walking around without a right coronary artery.

    And he wasn’t. The left artery was missing.

    His body grew collateral blood vessels…

    That’s not true either. His right coronary artery was grossly enlarged, that’s all.

  54. It was the left, I stand corrected. I was going on my feeble memory. You’re not supposed to be walking around without that one, either, but the right definitely supplies a greater area.

    You are mistaken about the collateral pathways. His right artery was grossly enlarged but collateral pathways would HAVE to have developed from the RCA as it only perfuses 25-35% of the left venticle from normal vasculature. The left ventricle has to be perfused to a much great extent than that for you to be alive much less compete as Pete did. There is nothing particularly unusual about collateral pathway development it’s just the extent of development in Pete’s case is truly astounding.

    I was an Advanced Cardiac Life Support (ACLS) instructor for many years. Any nurse or doctor would be familiar with the course.

  55. Wow, this string went off the rails really fast. I thought the story was about IU’s new NCAA Champion in the 1,500 meter race!

  56. Reggie, take my word for it….FIFA will never, ever change the three sub rule. It would make no economic sense (you’d need more players than 18. While teams often have a ‘reserve’, they don’t pay those players nearly at the level of the top 18– actually 11 for that matter, but the next seven make a pretty good living as well.)

    Teams like Barcelona, Real Madrid, Atletico Madrid, Milan, Chelsea, Manchester Utd, Liverpool, Bayern Munich, Borussia M., Botafogo, Cruzeiro, Sao Paolo, Santos and Fulminense of Brazil, Boca Juniors, River Plate, and Estudiantes of Argentina and Nacional and Penarol of Uruguay, etc. (I’m leaving quite a few out but largely the ‘large’ clubs can afford to carry two full teams of first div. and reserves and play them alternatively, especially when they get into the trans-national tournaments like the Euro League or the Libertadores Cup. For instance Boca and Fulminense both had to deal with their local championships while playing each other and other country’s clubs in the Libertadores Cup (usually Tuesdays and Wednesdays) and contend with the absence of their best players when their stars are called for National Team games, like Argentina-Brazil in New York (NJ) last week (hope you saw that, 4-3 Argentina with Messi scoring 3); so that’s a big demand on their budgets.

    Eventually, the US will have to go away from the free substitution rules if the NCAA wants to ever be a part of FIFA. One might say, ‘they don’t have to be’ but FIFA is very, very powerful and controls every player ID card, even down to your youth level.(that’s why they collect the cards at the beginning of the game and when you get thrown out -red carded- they take your card and you serve your automatic minimum suspension of one game, you literally can’t step on the field without the card….the ref won’t ref until you are off).

    There will come a day when they’ll (FIFA) say (to the NCAA)enough or we will prohibit non-FIFA play. Theirs is a monopoly and they know it and don’t mind enforcing it. They’ve allowed it since the growth of soccer began in the US to promote the game in the world’s biggest market, but at some point they’ll grind (US) organized, Div. 1 college soccer under their thumb.

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