Four IU signees in top 100 in final Rivals rankings

Forward Noah Vonleh is ranked No. 8, swingman Troy Williams is No. 47 and guard Stanford Robinson is No. 56 in’s final rankings for the Class of 2013.

Center Luke Fischer also cracked the top 100, coming in at No. 94. Devin Davis rounds out Indiana’s top 150 players at No. 127. Collin Hartman is not ranked in the Top 150.

Jaren Sina, a point guard from Gill St. Bernard’s School in Gladstone, N.J., whom the Hoosiers have been recently recruiting, is No. 121.

Yet uncommitted forward Andrew Wiggins of Huntington (W.Va.) Prep is the top recruit followed by Kentucky’s Julius Randle, Arizona’s Aaron Gordon and Duke’s Jabari Parker.


  1. These guys could be great if coach can get the right team chemistry going with Yogi and Will. Williams and Noah looked good in the game the other night and I think Luke can prove to be a great center down the road. There was a lot of negative talk because we had a player want to transfer for more PT time and I wish him well. MP just had a horrible season and I just read on ESPN where he lost his 3rd player to transfer. I hope he stays at PUke I like them being horrible so keep up the good work MP.

  2. Anybody else find it surprising that the B1G only landed 18 on this list with only a handful still undeclared? And we have 5 (maybe 6) of those recruits? It seems that a conference that was so widely regarded as the best in the country this year would get a larger slice of the pie. SEC seemed to clean house, and they were pitiful.

    And Ron B, I wouldn’t get too comfortable with calling PU horrible. They started to come on strong towards the end of the year, the Johnson boys and Hammons are no scrubs, and all those transfers probably had a lot to do with their incoming recruits– Purdue had a few that made this list as well. I’m not crowning them favorites by any stretch, but PU should be a handful next year. We can’t sleep on them.

  3. You maybe right I was just trying to show that they lost 3 players 2 of which averaged more points than Remy and no one seems to care. I just think folks do not really understand that transfers and folks leaving for the NBA draft are a way of life in today’s college basketball.

  4. Point well taken. I could start rambling on and on about how loyalty in sports is going the way of the dodo, but I’m in a good mood and it would just upset me. So I’ll bid everyone a good morning and leave it at that.

  5. Punjab, I think it comes down to admissions for athletes. I have friends in the AD of two SEC schools and if you play a sport…I compare the admissions there to that of a juco. The Big Ten really does hold a much higher standard on a whole than other power conferences! While Patterson feels pushed out after reading his comments…I don’t think a C and C- in summer school would cut it at IU during the school year with pressures/distractions much more than summer.

    Let’s be honest…when Crean watched Jurkin and Patterson together last summer and had a choice…hands down he would have pushed Jurkin if he was really doing that kind of stuff and that is why I feel he does not push players to leave, he is loyal and too loyal sometimes, we have seen it on the court…Patterson will do will at Syracuse under the sanctions that will come down on them soon!

    The one place I did not see that loyalty was Roth and I would still like to hear his version…Roth or Jurkin this past year??? I take Roth every time!!

  6. Not many warm climate kids want to move to colder climates, and when presented with several good options climate will become a factor in the decision (not THE factor, but a factor)…

  7. I’m sure there are a multitude of factors, and you both are probably correct, at least in part. Admissions standards, climate, roster makeup, PT availability, proximity to home, etc, etc. Home team loyalty, perhaps? With the exception of those flocking to UK, though, I would’ve thought going to proven winners would be a bigger factor than it apparently was. Maybe they just saw what happened at IU and want to be part of their own program resurrection. Right? RIGHT?

  8. Dang it, J Pat. Now you’ve gotten me thinking about loyalty. I was supposed to be doing yard work, but the rain rolled in and the wife rolled out. (For a nesting pregnant woman, the list of errands she feels she needs to run is endless…) So now I’m left here with just my thoughts and a cup of coffee.

    Pinning down what it means to be loyal is an inexact science. And with so many conflicting interests and ever-evolving circumstances, it’s nearly impossible to be loyal to everyone, whatever that means. Take the Mo Creek scenario. The guy’s been through hell, but has dealt with it all with immense class. He’s already a winner. I’d love nothing more than to see him thrive in his senior year and go out on top. But where do his loyalties lie? Is it to the team? Does loyalty mean he sticks around and provides much needed senior leadership to a young team, even though he’ll likely be physically limited in his on-court contributions? Or does loyalty dictate that he step aside and let the next guy step up for the (potential) betterment of the program. Since he has his degree and little mouths to feed, does he need to be loyal to his family and better support them with a paycheck? Is loyalty to team and family mutually exclusive?

    And what about Coach? He’s got to be loyal to his players, his fans, and, yes, the boosters. He’s got to put the best product out there. It’s not easy to juggle all that, and the naysayers who want to clown his every move clearly don’t understand all the moving parts. I don’t, and i still know I couldn’t do what he does. This isn’t tee-ball. Not everybody walks away a winner. Tough decisions have to be made, and almost invariably somebody’s going to be left out. We may not understand or agree with all of those decisions– some may even across as cutthroat– but does that mean that Crean is a disloyal person? I don’t think so. To me, it means that Crean has competing loyalties and something has to give. We don’t know what all happened behind the scenes of the RP saga, just that some unfortunate decisions had to be made. I don’t think it had anything to do with loyalty, though.

    Okay, enough rambling for now. Between writing and a second cup of coffee, I’m starting to get worked up, and nobody wants to read a ranting dissertation. I’ll leave my thoughts on Remy, transfers, and the general practice of seeking greener pastures and the “gots ta git mine” mentality for another time. Cheers.

  9. Punjab, hope I did not work you up, that was not my intention at all. I just jotted some things down that have been on my mind…

  10. Great statement Punjab. I also enjoyed your more personal statement from the other days. I assume you and your family are part of our military. That’s great and we owe you a whole lot. I also assume from your ‘handle’ it is somehow related to the area of Pakistan with that name.

    My son is soon retiring (served mostly in the 82nd. and did several tours in Iraq (Baghdad, Sadr City/Adamiyah) and Afghanistan (Zabul Prov and Kandahar; and shares the values that come across so clearly in your posts including the complexities of issue such as loyalty.

    Honored to have you posting. God’s speed….hope you and the family stay safe and have a great career and life.

  11. The biggest positive factor luring top recruits to Indiana is that they are buying into the ‘Christian Compound’ push.

    You do tend to hear a lot of top ballers attribute their success and talent potential to their “Lord and Savior,” Jesus H. Christ. Our coach has been very calculating in recognizing the importance of communicating a strong belief in the Bible via his twitter page.

    Anyway, here’s how I would rank the factors(descending from most important to least).

    Top Factors to Lure Top Recruits:

    Is the head coach a fine Christian? Parents are good Christians and desire head coach to be the same(Tom Crean gets an A+..He is a good Christian)

    Are the uniforms cool and made of breathable fabric?

    -Is the weather on the campus as lovely as an Indiana autumn? What recruit does not love Indian Summer in Indiana and the bright golds and reds of the maple trees preparing for a long winter’s nap?

    Are there extremely attractive young ladies on campus?(Indiana has some of the most attractive coeds in the nation…A+)

    Is there a constant party atmosphere?(Is there really a better party school in the nation? Bloomington gets an A+)

    Does the recruits AAU/prep school buddies attend the program? Simon and Garfunkel got it right…Friends like to stay together.

    Is their good pizza to be found?

    Television contracts/Conference influence with Establishment media. Is the school featured on TV a lot? (e.g. Jonny Marlin needs exposure so the NBA scouts can expand upon the jaw-dropping skills found on his YouTube highlights set to gangsta rap)

    The Remy Factor/Can a bench player with oodles of potential ever steal your exposure? A prima donna slated to go to the NBA in a year or two must never feel a coach would sell away his exposure to play a surprise recruit that could make the team stronger if given more minutes(e.g. “Don’t worry Mr. Top Rivals Superstar Incoming Freshman Recruit, I will never play Remy more than you.”)

    Other less salient concerns/Things that may be considered, but don’t really matter:
    Whether or not the coach can actually coach/name of the institution/winning championships/learning something.

  12. Ha. No worries, J Pat. I was only kidding about getting worked up. Sometimes I just have so much to say about a given topic that it’s painfully difficult to try and condense it down to a few readable paragraphs. Caffeine just got me carried away and I had to cut myself off. Respectful posters such as yourself never upset me regardless of your position, and the nuisance Debby Downers and sensationalists of the world I rarely take seriously enough to care.

  13. oops.

    Is [there] good pizza to be found? For a sophisticated top recruit to be lured away from the East to Bloomington, there must be Papa John’s readily available.

    Papa John’s Finder/Map(East of Mississippi).

  14. Harvard,

    Funny you brought up the pizza… I did have my buddy who coaches at PSU tell me that one girl did choose them over Duke because there was a Taco Bell in closer proximity to the campus. But he also told me he loses recruits to UNC, Duke, and FSU because they have better weather. I wasn’t prompting him to tell me any of this, but it has helped me form opinions on the topic.

    While it isn’t basketball, we are talking about kids choosing between top programs (PSU beat Duke in the Regional Finals and then FSU in the Final Four before losing to UNC in the national championship game…), so I think there is relevance.

  15. J Pat, your thought concerning Jurkin/Patterson is a significant point in support of Coach Crean. He really had no vote in the decision.

  16. ^Bull. Crean would have never cut the A-Hope kid when there was a better fall guy option.

    Jurkin Forever.

  17. Thanks, Tsau. And thanks to your son as well. The deployment I just returned from was a joint outfit in Central America, primarily run by the Army. I met many brothers down there who had served with the 82d and shared their stories. It was an honor to serve with each of them. I’m in the Air Force, myself. Just passed the point of no return in March, so unless I get a job offer I can’t refuse I’ll be riding it out until retirement a little under ten years from now. My kids will just be nearing high school age by then, so it’s the perfect time to settle in one spot.) Been stationed in Vegas, Korea, Germany, Florida, and now I’ve returned to the Midwest just outside of St Louis. It’s brutal having to listen to Cardinals baseball wonks on the local sportstalk radio year round, but it’s nice to be back close to home, if only for a while. Been to the sandbox twice, but never yet in direct combat zones. My jobs have kept me doing behind-the-scenes operations type stuff, relatively safe from unfriendly fire. I have great reverence for those that routinely go outside the wire, and the family’s that support them back home.

    The Punjab moniker is a less noble story. In high school I worked at the Burger King next to the College Mall. I would always steal the label-maker and create name tags with new and ironic names. I got a kick out of people who would ask if my name was really Sunflower, or Shanene, or Chin, or Botswana. My favorite was Punjab, and when it came time for an alias for my MySpace profile years later, it stuck. I’ve used it ever since, much to the chagrin of my wife and mother.

  18. Geoff, I’m not convinced the UM incident necessarily hurt his image. It was a controlled detonation, and may have endeared him even more to his supporters. It showed, at least to me, that he sticks up for his team and for what’s right. Sure, it fueled the fire for his detractors, but some people will use anything for the chance to say “see, I told you he was a clown…”

  19. Sure Pujab, if you are firmly on one side of the fence or the other then it just reinforced your feelings. But it certainly was an endearing moment. It was seen as an embarrassment to most people without a dog in the fight…

    So my point is if he is so image-conscious and calculating that he would work behind the scenes, and in an ethically-questionable manner, to relieve the over-sign situation by manipulating a professor to give Buss a C-, all so he could avoid looking bad because he sent an A-HOPE kid packing… If you’re that image-conscious and calculating then why put yourself in a questionable situation like he did in Ann Arbor?

  20. Geoff, I cannot believe you suggested that about Crean manipulating a prof…I have always enjoyed your posts, always! I think we are the same age…not that it matters. My friends down south with NO Indiana ties saw it as Crean sticking up for IU…it was not like Alford cussing a kid out in the handshake line and going after him for God sakes. I just don’t think it was that big of a deal…media blew it up!

  21. Geoff, even people who aren’t firmly on one side, or who may be Crean supporters in general but are able to able to objectively look at individual incidents and judge them on their own merits, may see things differently. I can certainly see how it’s an embarrassment to many– at the very least it’s not one of his proudest moments. But it’s not a terrible, unredeemable blunder either.

    Either way, you’re right. He’s not some diabolical image-maker. Only a kook conspiracy theorist can think that Crean is so devious and crooked that he goes out of his way to simultaneously railroad prospective recruits, players, fellow coaches, and others on the sly while maintaining the outward appearance of a good, honorable, fiery Christian man who wears his heart on his sleeve. It takes a pretty jaded mind to conclude that he’s so calculating.

  22. J Pat… Please go back and read my posts… You are misunderstanding them. Then if you need the proper reference point, read Punjab’s #25.

    Hopefully you get that I was simply tearing apart Harvard’s theory and not making any accusations.

  23. Btw, not to rehash the whole incident, but I agree that it wasn’t that big a deal. But in doing what he did he opens himself to criticism, both locally and nationally. I just don’t think a person hyper-sensitive to public opinion would open himself to that type incalculable risk.

  24. Geoff, if that is the case…my apologies, I am sorry…I am reading too fast between teaching classes so my bad for sure! When I get the kids down tonight I will read it all again…

  25. Interesting that a few posters referenced Crean’s “loyalty.” What’s more important, a coach’s loyalty to a player or his obligation to the player. Is loyalty even a relevant concept in the equation?

    I don’t think college coaches spend much time considering loyalty in regard to their players. I think they are far more concerned with fulfilling their many obligations. Yes, college coaches are obligated to their players, but does that ever trump their obligation to the team as a whole, or to their employer? I think the answer is no. If coaches, by and large, have a sense of loyalty to a player, it is a conditional loyalty. A coach’s position is kind of like, “I will be loyal to you as long as you do the following things and exhibit the following behaviors. If you stop doing those things, I will stop being loyal to you.”

    But on the other hand, a coach should be devoted to fulfilling his obligations to his players. Like any leader, a good coach should announce to his players what exactly he is obligated to provide to them and then work very hard to deliver those things consistently.

    I think of loyalty as something very important and involved in personal relationships and friendships, but it does not trump obligation in professional relationships. And let’s face it, a college basketball coach is in a professional relationship with his/her players. After the player graduates or otherwise leaves the program, the coach and the player can become friends, when loyalty is most important.

  26. The eruption with Meyer was 100% calculating. I doubt the average fan unattached to IU even gives a damn. It was calculated to manipulate a very unsophisticated and entrenched sect of the ‘righteous righties’ in the IU fan base. Crean can milk the Sampson hate cow for another five years with the hicks that believe all of IU’s troubles and losing can be narrowed down to one man that loved his phone and trouble kids too much.

    The media grabbed the Crean/Meyer footage and attempted to stir some national embarrassment for IU. There are two manipulations operating in two different spheres of motivation and intent.

    You have a coach attempting to manipulate the IU fan base; pretending to be a Dirty Harry tough guy type when, in actuality, he’s conniving and cowardly.

    Crean isn’t worried about the national media attempting to put a spin on his Dirty Harry act with Meyer. He’s proved untouchable on the national level(ESPN/A-Hope piece never got any steam)and local levels(Elston trip/scholly crunches/smirks, etc).

    Why is he untouchable? Seriously? He’s been building that wall brick by brick since his first days at Indiana. He has the perfect buffer; the cross.

  27. Papa John’s? Yuck. Give me Lenny’s, Mother Bear’s or Greek’s Pizzaria. Heck, I would gladly take Pizza Express or Mellow Mushroom over Papa John’s any day. Of course it has been 20 years. Are any of those places still there or is Papa John’s all that remains? It would be an utter catastrophe if it were true.

  28. And if you come to IU because you attached your own strong personal faith beliefs in shared unison with the coach that recruited you….? Well, live by the sword, die by the sword.

    No matter how conniving, slimy, and calculating an act you find yourself the victim, you can’t go against your faith and talk honestly. To voice any high level of displeasure would be going against far more than your devout Christian coach.

    The divine purpose that brought you to IU has the same control of the bus that takes you away.

  29. Paulo,
    Lenny’s, Mother Bears, Pizza Express and Mellow Mushroom are all still in full effect. Whether Greek’s moved or fell on hard times, I’m not totally sure, but it’s no longer in the same spot on Walnut Street and has been replaced by another late night food joint. Rockits is still kicking next to the Bluebird, but Uncle D’s is also gone. Kilroy’s now owns that part of the building and it’s part of Kilroy’s Dunnkirk. They do make pizza, but it’s not nearly on the level of Uncle D’s at least in my personal opinion.

  30. Ok, next question Harvard…

    In this crazy scenario of yours, which groups’ opinions does Crean care about which does he not?

    This is what I have so far…

    Does care: righteous righty IU fans

    Doesn’t care: national media

    I don’t want to make any assumptions about your plot, so please clarify any other sub-groups that Crean cares or not about.

    Also, in what wacky world is 2 players getting suspended for 9 games based on recruiting violations untouchable? He is not operating with impunity…

    My prediction is you are going to find it very difficult to keep straight or make sense out of the groups that are matter to Crean and how they are effected by each of his “calculated” media-attention-inducing moves.

    Can you please give us more fun talking points and interesting monikers like “Establishment” and “righteous righties”… It will make this waaaaaay better. Maybe make up some acronyms?

    Here’s a freebie – TOMs (Their Opinion Matters), and then you’ll have the non-TOMs… It works so well doesn’t it!

  31. Well put, Po. There is a difference between loyalty and professional obligation. But a good coach is loyal to his obligations AND as his people– or at least balances the two as best he can.

  32. Any knowledgeable fans understands that transfers are just part of the game. The folks that praise RMK one second and then whine about transfers the next need to take a dose of reality. How about the 1976 Hoosiers, that model of basketball stability? I can think of at least three players that transferred off that team (Mark Haymore, Bob Bender, Rich Valavicius) and they were graduating most of the team so these guys would have seen a ton of playing time in upcoming years.

    Players transfer. Get used to it.

  33. I was recently on a cross country sojourn. I figured a stop in Alabama so I picked Tuscaloosa. I figured, hey, college town. It was late so I thought we’d just order a pizza. The desk clerk was a student. I asked him who had the best pizza in town. He named Pizza Hut, Papa Johns, and Dominoes. I asked if he was kidding. Aren’t there any local places? Nope. Only the chains.

    Pity the Crimson Tide.

  34. Chet, what do you think this is, the 90s? You don’t ask real people for advice anymore. Just in less than 20seconds of reading your post I used the fancy iPad map to locate about 5 non-chain pizza joints in Tuscaloosa.

  35. Absolutely: players transfer, coaches coach and Clown Tom Crean reads the daily devotional. Three totally distinct categories of people.

  36. Bombay, yeah, I looked them up, too. He knew about those places. Maybe he was a corporate plant put there by Papa John Schnatter (my high school classmate).

    He said he wouldn’t eat there. Knowing that, would you?

  37. I should open up a pizza establishment.


    Windmill Pizzeria?

    The Pepperoni Conspiracy?

    Father Seth’s?

    Harvey Banners?

    Sicilian Pipeline?

    Mitch’s Brick Oven Pizza?

  38. uhh. Toppings could include Rotheroni, 3point jordy cheese. Cody crust (some may say it’s too soft – others describe it as delicate). How bout some Cream of Syracuse soup? Or Creamed by Syracuse soup. Crean Creamed by Syracuse soup? 12 pack of favorite drink to go? Would probably include 13 bottles due to over recruiting, I mean stocking. StromboYogi for a fast meal. CWat-a-roni – slow cooked correctly, can be really good. Vic-eghetti – hard to control on a fork & could splatter all over you.

    sorry – it’s raining,

  39. Ron-

    I like your sense of humor. Loved the Cody crust references(“others describe it as delicate”)…Hilarious.

    Maco-Remy and goat cheese? (Always available to go).

    “Laz”-on-ya (Inspired by John Laskowski). It’s our famous lasagna on a crusty sub roll…Topped with extra John-sonville polish sausage and a river of béchamel sauce. Baked up flaming hot in “The Pritch”(our one-of-a-kind wood-fired brick oven).


Comments are closed.