Zeller to announce NBA entry in press conference at approximately 4:10 p.m.

Indiana sophomore center Cody Zeller will officially declare his early entry in the NBA draft at a press conference at approximately 4:10 p.m. today, sources confirmed Wednesday morning.

Zeller was named a second-team All-American this season and a first-team All-Big Ten pick and averaged 16.5 points and 8.1 rebounds per game this year. He is expected to be a lottery pick.

114 comments

  1. I’m glad he’s going to the NBA where his game will flourish not having to face triple teams and organized muggings. With more spacing and the freedom to shoot mid range jumpers, I expect him to be one of those players whose games translate better in the NBA than college.

  2. Are we facing a Kentucky like season next year without winning a National Championship? We’re loosing a lot of talent this year.

  3. Though he could use another college season (I think he’s going to get ‘muscled’ much more in the NBA than he did at IU) he’s going to be a ‘high’ lottery pick which means that if he stays, he loses millions of dollars he’ll never get back. Also, despite some opinion to the contrary, IU is not going to come close to winning a Big 10 or NCAA title next year with him or without him so why should he stay? It would be Great if he stuck around but I certainly understand why he’s not.

  4. I will be honest…I will not hate on him like a lot will but I am shocked on this decision and will admit I will lose some respect for him if he leaves for the nba. Victor did 3 years and grew each year and his draft stock could go down next year…Zeller is a different story all around!

  5. J Pat – why are you hating on Zeller? People will remember his last game, but don’t forget what Zeller did for this program. Without him, the renaissance doesn’t happen.

  6. Aruss, you are right…I am sure he opened the door for Yogi and others but Hulls, Will, Vic and others did that as well. Wat hit that shot, Hulls did 4 years, Vic with the improvements and dunks, what will Zeller’s legacy be? I love the kid but amd trying to wrap my head around all of this…

  7. Zeller’s legacy is five numbers: 6, 10, 12, 27 & 29. There was one new variable when we went from 12 to 27 and that was Cody.

    Cody is legendary in my book. In the digital what have you done for me lately age, a lot of people may have forgotten what 6, 10 and 12 felt like but I don’t.

  8. Aruss, I would argue that other players had just as much impact…Victor and Jordy might have had even more!

  9. J Pat – haven’t you been preparing yourself mentally for this since about midway through Cody’s freshman season?

    Rod – I think the UK season is a good guess… Just without the devastating injury to our best player hopefully. UK was very inconsistent to start the season, but had won 5 in a row, and 7 of 8, before the game Noel was injured. They were coming together and were being talked about as a top 5 seed in the tourney that could be very dangerous.

    I’m hoping that with the leadership of Yogi and Will, the improvement of Jeremy and Hanner, and the talent of the incoming class we will have a similar arc. I see no reason why we can’t be a top 20 team, that is in the top 4 in the conference standings, could make a real run at a B1G tourney title and a top 4 seed in the NCAA tourney.

    As I’ve said before… People seem to forget that the other top teams are losing a lot of talent as well, either to graduation or the pros. We will have top 20 talent, maybe even top 10 talent on our roster next year if our freshman make expected strides in their soph seasons.

    We will run into a lot of teams that are more experienced than us, but very few that are more talented. (UM did ok with 5 freshman in their top 8 this year)

  10. Geoff, NO, I have not and maybe I am naive. I told myself that big bro stayed it out and with a year not as dominant as it should have been and then after a sweet 16…I told myself he was the kind of kid that would stay!

  11. Good luck, Cody. Your move only makes sense. You’d face even more double and triple teams next year with the Hoosiers having fewer options. You’ll be a very, very solid pro.

    The Hoosiers are going to be better next year than this bunch thinks.

  12. It’s not really “today”… It’s been going strong for 20 years. The kids that are in college today (18-21 years old) literally know no other environment. It’s the norm to them.

    It’s not like the best players haven’t been leaving early since Nam (finally I can accurately use that phrase!)… Probably before. I’m 37, so don’t remember anything prior to 1980 really, and I don’t feel like researching right now, but in my memory there’s:

    Isiah, Michael, Magic, Bird, Barkley, Olajuwon, Drexler, Malone, Bias (woulda been a top 50 player)… I could go on, but hopefully you get the picture. Ths isn’t a “today” thing. Kids have been leaving college before their 4 years are up since Forever.

  13. Dustin, I recall at last year’s conference that Cody said he hadn’t accomplished everything he set out to do. Can you confirm that he did indeed get his date with Kate Upton?

  14. Generation Gap: You don’t remember anything before 1980.

    I’m pleasantly stuck in the 50’s, 60’s and 70’s. Can’t think of many positives from the 90’s and beyond.

  15. I suppose that an overdose of Ms. Upton could explain the somewhar less than stellar play in couple of the latter games.

  16. Can’t say I blame him, but bummed. I thought another year would provide more training to be tougher around the rim. I am sure his NBA coaches will flourish his talent. I see us next year being mid pack, slightly above.

  17. I really had thought Cody would stick around another year. But when you think of the beating he has been taking,playing against guys like McGary who have no qualms about knocking Cody to the floor (with the ball 50′ away),
    or the two handed push to his back (after the whistle stops the play – McGary again) and the decreasing fouls after the hack jobs on him, add the constant “too soft” from the IU fans….Hell, he might as well make some money doing it. Might be enough to live in Southern Cal.

    Congradulations Cody
    And Thanks

  18. Even though it is probably in Zeller’s best interest to go pro, I never feel good when a player leaves without his degree. 2 years for me, isn’t long enough to for a player to leave a significant mark at IU, unless they win a national championship.

  19. After watching both Zeller and McGary in the NCAA’s…and they would both come back…I cant and havent seen the improvement in Zellers Game that I saw in McGary’s game JUST in the NCAA. I think Zeller’s charging drives ; his inexplicable fear of shooting a 12 ft shot in mid zone;the fact that he curls up in fetal position and disappears when muscled…IU doesnt need another season of that from him and if thats all he can offer at IU then its time fpor him to move on and get muscled more

  20. I wish Zeller well though I’m sorry to see him go. He could use another year to work on his physicality in the hope he will be better prepared for life in the NBA, and have a successful career. But this year,no doubt, is the best year for him to pick up the big bucks. And for that, you can’t blame him.

  21. JeremyK,
    I saw something roaming around the Twitterverse today saying that Kate Upton is now dating P-Diddy. That crushing blow might have been what finally caused him to give up his hopes for the dream college career and surrender to the NBA.
    (Actually, the whole thing was based on the rumor that Kate Upton was going to Indiana. Kate Upton was going to Indiana, but it wasn’t that Kate Upton.)

  22. Well, I’m really hoping he doesn’t end up injured by December. He needs more muscle and mentally I don’t think he’s ready yet. Sad.

  23. Ron… I have a few memories before 1980, though not really any basketball ones. I sorta remember playing on the short nerf hoop with my father in the dining nook turned playroom. Mostly I just remember getting hurt, like when I stepped on a bee and had to be carried everywhere for a couple weeks because my foot was so swollen… Kicking the soccer ball around with a neighbor kid and sliding into the corner of a concrete patio and gnashing my knee… Running down the sidewalk, tripping and deadening my front tooth, which was discolored until I lost it and got my adult tooth. I also remember one distinct time that my father hit a really high pop up and I actually caught it. It felt at the time like it was a couple hundred feet high, but it was probably just over the top of the tall tree in our back yard (which also seemed 100’s of feet tall)… So probably 40-50 ft. I was really excited. That was 1979, so I must have had some sweet short shorts, nice high striped socks, and a stylish bowl cut, to go with my Roos.

  24. Cody was projected to graduate in 2 1/2 years which I assume means one more semester. He’ll get his degree.

    McGary got a free pass compared to Cody. Nobody double, let alone triple, teamed McGary. Plus, as everyone saw, it was open season on Cody. The beating he’ll get in the NBA is no worse than he’s been getting all year.

  25. It’s highly doubtful that Cody will see even one intentional double-team next year. Guys will be bigger, stronger, quicker, smarter… But there will only be one of them to beat.

  26. If they both go pro this season (and I doubt McGary is projected high enough to take the chance) I just don’t see McGary’s game translating to the pros as easily as Cody’s. Much of his game is about being stronger than the average 19-20 year old college player. Not many of those in the NBA.

  27. Question #1: Why was he getting doubled and tripled at IU?

    #2: Why did he NEVER figure out a way to deal with that???

  28. McGary can shoot the 5-15 foot jumper…that is huge and he can drive…he was lazy for most of the season…the kid is good!!!

  29. Hate to see Cody go. I am having trouble with some of the comments about him not being ready. Not ready for what? I think he is plenty ready to cash a big check. He has room to grow, but what better way to get better than to make basketball your full time job and you are being paid millions while you are at it.

  30. J Pat, I appreciate your desire to see Cody Zeller stay at IU for another year, but this was a no-brainer for the young man. None of your arguments trump the opportunity for Zeller to earn two to three million next year and give himself the chance to secure his financial future with a prosperous NBA career. Why would anyone, with that financial upside, put it at risk to play another year in college? Why would he forfeit that money and risk an injury that could wipe out the opportunity forever? That would be stupid, and Cody Zeller is not stupid.

    I read somewhere that Cody is all but finished with his degree. All he needs now are electives, which he can probably do on-line. He’ll get his degree. As for Kate Upton, if “The Big Handsome” becomes an NBA starter, he’ll have Kate Upton look-alikes, from every NBA town in North America, approaching him on a nightly basis.

    Cody made it cool to play basketball at IU again. He put the program on his shoulders and raised IU basketball back to the elite. As good as his teammates are/were, none of them elevated the program as much as Cody Zeller did two years ago. He was the major get, signifying that IU basketball was back. We would have loved to see his IU career end after he helped hang another banner, but really, he was great while he was here and he made an enormous contribution to IU basketball. I am sad that I will never watch him play again, but I support his decision, thank him for the entertainment he provided, and wish him all the best in the future.

  31. By the way, for all you who mourn the loss of talent with VO and CZ leaving early, imagine what having two NBA lottery picks is going to mean to IU basketball recruiting! Whether we like it or not, the most talented high school basketball players want to cash in on an NBA career. Nothing promotes the opportunity to do that, through IU, better than having two outstanding young men become NBA lottery picks. And as good a recruiter as Tom Crean is, I’m confident he will continue to take advantage of that trend to enhance the quality of talent in future recruiting classes.

    If Crean loses two players of the quality of VO and CZ to the NBA draft each year, that’s the kind of problem we’d all like him to have.

  32. Interesting…A going away party for Cody has turned into a mud-slinging party for Mitch.

    A year of people calling Cody “soft” has now be spun into his unwillingness to play dirty like McGary.

    McGary doesn’t play dirty, folks. What McGary did was put his team on his shoulders in the tournament. Not a kid with two years of experience and savvy, but a freshman that nobody would have thought capable of taking his game to a level exhibiting more composure and mature play than the center in the country that was stealing all the covers of magazines.

    I’m with you, JPat. When I heard the slogan “Everything hinges on Zeller” blabbered all over this blog for three years, it translated in my thought process that Zeller and the “Movement” that followed would take the challenge of the elusive sixth banner all the way to the finish line.

    What’s changed in the past 20-30 years is the mindset. Kids don’t come to a particular college because of love for the name on the jersey. They attend the school that puts their name the best in lights. Zeller understood that IU”s lowly state that came about as a direct result an NCAA witch hunt attempting to make IU the poster child for far more hideous recruiting crimes permeating college athletics, would allow him heroic status the minute he stepped onto the Bloomington campus.

    IU is basically kaput. It’s full of opportunists that use those dusty old banners to thicken their resumes and cast more hype upon their names. We give them contract extensions for incompetency and turn them into gods for Sweet 16 trips. Ball State and Valparaiso have had sweet 16 trips. Mike Davis with a no-name kid from Converse, Indiana, in the middle didn’t have anyone telling them that the future of Indiana “hinged” on their making the cover of magazines and portraying themselves as upstanding self-anointing Christians.

    The only thing that “hinged” on Zeller’s commitment to Indiana was Crean getting more time to prove he can’t coach. He can sell kids looking for the limelight that still shines bright from the rafters…Limelight the result of knowledge and gutsy Hoosiers that used to love the uniform far more than the mirror. So many slogans and nothing to show for it…

    Did you buy the “Hoosier Rising” video that Scoop was helping to promote two weeks prior to March Madness tipping off? How silly all the marketing..”Because it’s Indiana”…”Everything Hinges”…”The Movement”…”It’s a process”…”The New Generation”(my guess would be that many have forgotten that marketing campaign with the holy light hovering about the huddled Hoosiers standing at center court with outstretched arms reaching for heaven)..AND NOW YOU CAN OWN THE VIDEO TOO!…ALL THE SLOGANS IN ONE PILE OF “HOOSIER RISING” POO.

    How silly all the hype. What a disgrace to our heritage and great traditions in hoops to turn IU basketball into a ShamWow commercial for marketing heads that know nothing of what it takes to win on hardwood.

    How much hype did Wichita State have over the past four years? How much hype did Rick Majerus get when he took over the job at St. Louis?

    There are good men out there with quiet and humble purpose. Men that are more about the meaning of “put up, or shut up.” Men that want to finish what they start. Men that won’t use excuses. Men that won’t blame officiating, or decimation another man’s flaws, or whacks to the groin for reasons they seek the fat of dollars on their brief and weak Hoosier loin.

    Indiana handed the keys to the program over to empty Establishment souls that use Indiana. They rub dirt in the face of true Hoosiers. There is no honor in their empty slogans and hyped press conferences. They spit in the face of pride and purpose. They bring shame to those that wore candy-stripes for more than the “good enough” banners you’ll find in Mackey.

    I’m with ya, JPat…I hear you at the back of the line. But your wallet is not thick enough and tongue not slithery. You’ll have to wait behind the elitists that have moved into town. Your cheers no longer matter. Greed has invaded the the last humble village of the game you once loved…Your cheers no longer matter to the drums of hype, dollars, and empty blabber. Just be a good hick and watch this video all summer long and be the best B-town zombie they all know you can be..Do it for those spoiled Business school grads destined for Wall Street and the soulless frat rat capitalists using McCracken to sell their YouTube movie-making skills.

  33. If Crean loses two players of the quality of VO and CZ to the NBA draft each year, that’s the kind of problem we’d all like him to have.

    Or, more likely than not, this is the beginning of the end for Crean.

  34. Harvard you need something to keep you occupied, you are a little to worked up over this. I think you’ve all just forgotten what its like to lose players that actually meant something. Join the club, teams all over the country are losing talent every year. Iu basketball will be FINE. of course it was easy to say goodbye to the likes of pritch, Kyle taber, and erek suhr. You guys sound like a bunch of wildcats

  35. Harvard, you start your post bemoaning the ‘mudslinging’ (which only your highly trained eyes can detect) directed at Mitch McGary (I even accused him of being stronger than average 19-20 year old basketball players. I feel so dirty now that I realize I was ‘mudslinging’.) and then you devote the rest of your lengthy post to character assassination of IU supporters and the coaching staff and, well, pretty much everyone associated with those two groups.

    Sooo…you don’t see any flaw in all that?

  36. This makes him just another really good player but not one of the IU greats. With the state of college basketball, player egos and the money there may never be another IU “great”. Put him down for one Big Ten championship and two sweet sixteens. Compared to recent history that is wonderful, long term IU history – so what!

  37. Chet… The real irony is that no one would be talking (I mean mudslinging) about Mitch if Harvard wasn’t over-zealously slobbering over him, while simultaneously bashing Crean and Cody.

    But then that’s Harvard’s MO… He starts some off-topic conversation based on hyperbole and straw men… Then pushes the limit as far as it will go… Then pretends to be shocked, surprised, and/or innocent when the rest of us randomly take pot shots at the ridiculous circus tent he’s erected.

  38. Chet thanks for #45. I was reading HforH #41 until slithering brain fatigue set in and was unable to continue. The Reader’s Digest condensed version was very much appreciated.

  39. I see no more flaw in it than Geoff jumping on Laffy’s bandwagon and implying he was “soft” more most of the season.

    I could be real cute like Podunker and spoon-feed Crean’s lack of being nothing better than an average X’s and O’s coach that will keep IU relatively competitive but never likely take that talent to the biggest stage.

    Or, I could just sit quietly in a chair and smirk in the style of Dustin at a postgame press conference ..Smirking really does best sum it all up. Encountering frauds really isn’t worth much more than a smirk.

    Remember the old Twitter account that Crean used to have? Remember when he was once allowed to put the official IU logo amongst all the Bible-blabbering gibberish and Joyce quotes?

    Real men don’t sell faith on the back sides of dollar bills. Real men don’t get contract extensions based on preachy slogans and clinging to the mistakes of those that walked less the straight line.

    Yes, I do tend to smirk. Smirk at how empty its all become. Slogans..and hype..and crucifixions..and press conferences for kids not old enough to buy a beer. Meanwhile we prepare to go to war with North Korea instead of sending troops into Southside Chicago. Obama’s really get it, don’t they? Can’t we just offer Kim Jong Un a spot on American Idol…Do a Michelle makeover on him…Maybe try some bangs on him?

    Anyway, best keep politics off the blog. I knew there had to be someone holding onto a photo of that smirk Dustin gave Crean. There’s cameras everywhere these days…Cell phones just itching for an opportunity to get the “gotcha moment.” My connections came through…I found the Dustin pressroom smirk

  40. ……..”IU is basically kaput.”

    One of two things here; 1) Harvard is so upset with IU that he will no longer post here. Or 2) Harvard will continue to post here with each posting becoming longer and longer as he assails IU Athletics, media, journalists and everthing and everyone with any association with the above. These assaults will include AHope, regional recruitment practices and the mysterious “Establishment”.

    …..”McGary does not play dirty folks”. Guess that is a definition issue. The two plays I noted. per my VCR, document he attempts whatever it takes to get an edge. To some that may be an attribute, to me it’s the acknowledgement of ‘I can’t beat him so I’ll try to break him’.

    …..I’m afraid that some of the rumors posted two/three days ago at ITH. if true, will drive Harvard over the edge.

    Can’t wait for next season. Gonna be fun watching these guys learn and by the end of the season, there may be a better outcome than this year.

  41. Actually Harvard, I think that Laffy hopped on my bandwagon… Just like you jumped on my Stauskaswagon.

    The main difference in my criticism is I give concrete evidence in support of my points and I don’t make use of extreme hyperbole or strange conspiracy theories.

    My criticism of Cody was also tempered by pointing out things he was doing well… Not just an all-out assault like you do with Crean.

  42. The numbers that CZ and/or VO can earn are really interesting. Were each be drafted between the 6th and the 15th pick, Cody would earn between $2.7 and $!.5 million dollars during the 2013-2014 NBA year. Some have proposed that CZ (or VO for that matter) would lose that money and not be able to replace it, thus losing about $2.0 million which they could not replace if they didn’t make the jump to the NBA to remain at Indiana for an additional year.

    That is not quite true. If either CZ could manage to stay at IU and improve their draft position to where he is picked amongst the top three draft choices in 2014, he would increase his first year’s value to somewhere between $4.0 and $4.7 million or more; in other words, either would have replaced the money lost by not declaring their availability now, assuming they are picked between the 5 and 15th. pick.

    There is also one more, and perhaps, financially, as important aspect of maximizing their first contract. The salary, especially the fourth year’s (team’s option) salary determines the base from which the player will negotiate the future contracts thereafter. Of course, this will largely depend on the player’s performance for the first four years, but he negotiating base will determine the player’s lifetime earnings and have a very strong influence on the total compensation for his career.

    Both Oladipo and Zeller have options they should consider carefully. While they have declared their ‘availability; for the draft, they can use that ‘availability’ in their negotiations, keeping in mind that the GM they will deal with has one thing in mind- money.

    And, they will want to keep in mind that they are being paid for a nomadic lifestyle, traveling every day for six months from one hotel to another; a work and social environment that is not nearly as glamorous as media and groupies and traveling companions that will often remind you that the innocence of youth was bought and well paid for with good reason.

  43. Did your VCR show the Kansas point guard taking a cheap shot to McGary’s groin right at the beginning of the game?

    Did you notice the Kansas point guard being allowed to remain in the game though it was something so blatantly dirty that it called for an ejection? No, I’m sure you only watched Hoosier games during all of March Madness.

    Dirty plays abound in college basketball. Did you notice Devan Dumes throw three violent elbows at Michigan State a few years back? Did you notice that gangsta thug was not a Sampson recruit? Did you notice? Nope. You only notice anything that’s spoon-fed to you with a cherry slogan on top.

  44. Geoff-

    You are perpetuating lies.

    Laffy was the first to proclaim Cody as “soft.” He even suggested putting a “skirt” on him.

    Harvard was the first to talk about Stauskas. Tsao has been over it with you. You’ve been shown the posts where Stauskas’ name first graced the pages of Scoop.

    You really lack the know-how to search for your posts on Stauskas that you claim came earlier?

    Why not use some of that damn good logic of yours and propose to all your fans on Scoop that they find something predating my post? Your a “smart guy” with lots of “smart” fans. I’m sure Chet has nothing pressing.

  45. I wonder if Cody is concerned about his draft placement after another year of college? He dropped a few slots this year from the early projections. Not sure if next yrs draft is stronger than the current, but if so and if he were to continue to drop out of the top what, 12-15, he would be in jeopardy of less financial reward?

    Or he may be just tired of the constant beating he’s taking. May as well get paid for it.?

  46. teach me to skim read….”ejection”.

    true, I only watch teams that interest me or may be a future IU opponent.

  47. Perpetuating lies Harvard? Hello Kettle.. It’s Pot here.

    Maybe Laffy said it first. maybe he even said it last year… But it was a proclamation at best and not a breakdown of the reasons. Either way, being in agreement with some points or policies doesn’t mean you’re a bandwagoner… I agreed with Bush on a few things… Doesn’t mean I was on the Bush bandwagon. It’s a fairly appropriate equivalent to Laffy.

    (Tsao is on meds, but hope he’s doing well)

  48. Ask your friends to bring out the posts on Stauskas. You’re avoiding a logically pathway to get you to your end game.

    Chet has also been on pain meds. Maybe you’re on meds. Doesn’t change the fact that your arrogance is the only thing you have in your corner. There were no posts from you on the subject of Stauskas prior to Harvard’s.

    Is it really so difficult for you to relinquish anything at all?

  49. Tsao – really good post. Everything you say is true, but the issue Ron pondered is indeed the case… Next years draft is already considered to be much better than this years (and was gong into the season). Guys like Wiggins, Parker, Randle, Gordon, and Andrew Harrison are all considered lottery locks. My guess is that was the number 1 reason Cody left. It would be extremely difficult for his stock to go up next year, but if he doesn’t show significant improvement maybe he drops outta the lottery altogether.

  50. Think I relinquished a tad in the previous post as a matter of fact… I actually relinquish all the time.

    The fact remains that I posted about Stauskas early in the year… You produced a series of posts that showed one conversation… You then said if you put “Hoosier scoop Geoff Stauskas” in the search bar nothing comes up… Well, considering I know for a fact I wrote about him and nothing comes up then I’m not sure how I can prove it. Something should come up whether before or after Dec 3… Would you say it’s a fair statement that I’ve posted a 1000 comments in here this season? Seems fair, yet I can’t the my name + anything in the search bar and have anything come up… It always tells me “no results match your search” or gives me baseball stories from 2011 because there was a Hoosier named Geoff… Regardless I can’t go back to prove or disprove my belief.

    I don’t really care too much… I just think its funny you always go back to toot your horn when even 10% of what you predicted or wrote ends up accurate. I wanted in on the action for a minute…

  51. It’s not there, Geoff. I’m proud to say my recollection is better than yours. I don’t spend time on other blogs.

    Come to think of it, I found Laffy’s favorite hole where he was putting his daily filth. I knew where it was heading on Scoop based on the history at SnailPond. It’s all there, Geoff. Your history…Everything you write. It’s not that difficult.

    Maybe you mentioned Stauskas on ITH…? You surely remember that I was also the first to bring up the fact you were joining the zombies on ITH..? Can you at least remember that fact? Would you like it retrieved?

    It’s o.k. You’ll always have Remy. As Dustin once said, “Remy is yours for eternity.’

  52. Maybe it was ITH… That’s easy to check. Especially since I’ve posted so little there. Glad to see you’ve stopped that nasty labeling habit.

  53. 20 yrs ago it was called a VCR. Not sure what it’s called today.

    Hold it down guys, we’re making Jeremy nauseous. (Or does he have the same sick humor as me?)

  54. Post #41 was classic Don Quixote.

    When you write, “IU is basically kaput.” You need to turn in your Hoosier fan card. You should just admit that you no longer wish to be considered a part of the Hoosier Nation. Seriously, why even bother watching IU sports or blogging on this site if that’s the way you feel? Life is too short!

  55. Well, you actually read it that carefully. Good on you. Harvard has jumped the shark.

    Even for a soft heart like me.

    I’m pretty sure that if CTC had recruited Mitch McGary and Indiana had won the crown, if McGary had been a little used bench warmer then it all would have been meaningless.

    Pretty sure about it, in fact.

  56. I need to read Don Quixote…First, I shall pull some dinner leftovers from the fridge and down gnocchi.

    Knock! Knock!

    Who’s there?

    Gnocchi.

    Gnocchi who?

    Gnocchi to get in the door.

  57. Chet-

    Don’t give up on ol’ Harvard.

    Guess I’ll never get the invite to Nick’s with the Scoop boys.

  58. So I was feeling guilty last night and called my Uncle who is in his 60’s and asked him why I felt like I did about Zeller leaving….why would a man in his lat 30’s be frustrated by someone leaving for the $$$? His reply I thought would be much different but he said to my surprise…I get how you feel simply because Zeller was billed as being different than most, a kid that would stay the course and make a difference, a kid that cared about academics and getting his degree and the K school of business, a kid from a family that would see he stay 3 or 4 years! He also went on to say I would most likely not feel like I do if they at least went to the title game and I agree with that…he simply did not accomplish along with the team what they set out to do and what ALL national media thought they would do way back in the summer! So now I put it to bed and look to next year!

  59. They come because of the tradition rather than to build any.

    “Because it’s Indiana” gives them a sense of false achievement by mere association. It kills desire. We built a Cook Hall museum as if it’s all in the rear view mirror. I don’t see it as positive. I don’t see the quotes plastered all over walls and photos of championship from three decades ago as inspiration.

    Indiana needed to be reinvented rather than resurrected. There’s a heaviness that automatically falls onto shoulders a kid that comes to Indiana. I wonder if all the selling it has made the environment come off as more desperate. We may never get it back, JPat. We had a chance when we hit bottom..We had a chance break free from the burdens of tradition. Instead, we hired men in high positions that wanted to push the buttons of easy emotion with every temptation a recruit rooted in seemingly memorializing the traditions.

    There needs to be a clean slate. Cook Hall should have been solely designed as a practice facility. We need men heading up our programs that don’t need the history, posters, quotes painted on walls, grand entry ways displaying our trophies, etc. in guiding Indiana into a new and more forward thinking aura surrounding the place. I ramble. Does it make any sense? Doesn’t it almost all serve as a sort of crutch? Are we ever going to get coaches and players seeking to be “different” when we hold onto tradition like a baby on mother’s breast?

    Speaking of mother’s breast…I heard a giant milking will occur at the Bloomington Walmart today.

  60. Dare I suggest it’s time we do away with the candy-stripes? Take down the banners? We’ve been stuck on five for 26 years…Is it really so different to start back at zero?

    We need to be secure enough to let go it all. Test the love. Test the young men of Indiana to enjoy the game without the burdens of the past. Liberate ourselves rather than preach how it was so perfect long ago. When we charge after an assistant coach removed from a scandal that happened five years ago, doesn’t that put Indiana right back in the stale days those dusty banners? Doesn’t say to everyone that what we once were was a model of perfection before it was destroyed? Why do want to cling onto something we all know wasn’t perfect?

  61. I don’t agree Harvard… But what’s new.

    You have two main points as I wander through your posts:

    1) IU needs to be reinvented, not resurrected.
    2) our tradition is now holding us back.

    Both are incredibly flawed.

    1) IU basketball HAS been reinvented. This is not Bobby Knight’s brand of basketball. Just ask half the posters on this site. This is a completely new style of play and a completely new style of recruiting. It’s also a completely new style of marketing, and a completely new type of personality leading the way. Because Crean was open about honoring the past it has also been resurrected.

    2) The confusing part about your desire to abandon the path we are on is that, by all accounts, we are still on the upside of the bell curve. 6, 10, 12, 27, 29 wins… Continual improvement in the B1G standings… Reached #1 in the country…. Won our first B1G Title in 20 years… #1 seed in the NCAA’s. Is there potential for a slight regression? Of course, but its hard to sustain what they accomplished this year every single season. No one does it. Not UK, not Duke, not any Big East team. Basically there’s Kansas and that’s it. Does Florida need to abandon their philosophy or break from the tradition they’ve built because they haven’t won a title since 2007?

    Do they not celebrate their history, tradition, and accomplishments at Louisville? How about at Kentucky? How about Duke? UNC? Kansas? Those are 5 of your last 6 NCAA champions. All tradional blue bloods. None are running from their tradition. They use it to their advantage. Did Crean ever have back-to-back top 10 recruiting classes at Marquette? I wonder why… Same coach. Same system.

    Why is it that tradition seems to help the other tradition-rich program, but hinders ours? (Answer: it doesn’t).

    By the way…

    IU has Cook Hall
    Duke has the Duke Basketball Museum & HOF
    UNC has The Carolina Basketball Museum
    UK had one, but it closed due to “financial woes” (hilarious and shocking, huh Chet)
    KU has the Booth Family Hall
    Louisville has the Yum Cardinal Basketball Hall of Champions

    4 years ago IU couldn’t even recruit the best kids in Indiana. Now we get our share. IU has never competed for the very best kids nationally. Now we do. Why? Because “It’s Indiana”, its been resurrected, and because there’s a reinvented style of play that is attractive to great players. Success is following Harvard. You’re so busy looking for tiny cracks in the foundation that you can’t enjoy the Mansion you reside in. Sad…

  62. Btw Harvard,

    Nick’s is out of both of our ways, but I did invite you to lunch in Chesterton this weekend and haven’t heard anything back from you…

  63. Why do you want to meet so desperately? So you can push me to whatever side of the “smart guy” fence your pigeonholed perceptions?

    What the hell do you want to find in Chesterton? You’ll find a dying place like most small Midwestern towns that used to thrive as outskirt posts of an industrial age. Taking jobs overseas, Walmarts, Home Depots, fast foods, and buying cheap on the internet killed them long ago.

    Unless you live in a hippie touristy place that sucks in retirees with cash and time to blow.

  64. Time to get rid of the candy-stripes…When the best post player recruit our state has produced in twenty years wants to only don them for two measly years, what’s the point?

    NBA pimps own them in the 10th grade. They own their thought processes and own their sole motives.

    I think we should go to a neutral color warm-up pant like all those sweaters RMK now wears.

  65. Wow… Um no… I like you and I think it would be fun to have lunch…

    Chesterton seemed like a good choice… Not for tourism, but I’m sure they have a decent local joint for a burger and a beer. You obviously hold a place in your heart for it, and it would be a good compromise between Chicagoland (isn’t that where you are?) and Indy… I can jump right onto 80 afterwards for my drive up to Maine.

    I know you aren’t a big fan of actual people, but I am, and I guess that’s why I want to meet you. 98% of the time I’m simply having fun on here. 98% of the time I don’t take what you say about me personally… The other 2% only lasts for a couple hours or so. I can’t think of a single person in life I harbor a grudge with… Least of all you.

    Bottom line, you make an excellent candidate for lunch.

    Quit being so damned paranoid and cynical.

  66. Harvard… Quiz for you.

    How many lottery picks have come out of IU in the last 35 years?

    Isiah… Cheaney… Jeffries… Gordon…. Am I missing anyone?

    What do 3 of these 4 guys have in common? Lottery picks have been leaving IU early at a rate of 75% for the last 35 years… We don’t need to lose the Candy Stripes. Nothing has changed.

  67. Harvard, I was gonna meet up with Geoff in Maine until I heard he was gonna give me a tainted lobster.

    Did you know lobsters can be either right or left handed? True.

  68. I say every one of you guys come for a tailgate at a football game this year and I cannot do lobster but will marinate chicken and steak and provide the beer…I am quite serious…we could make a day of it!!!

  69. I talked to Korman about that multiple times years back and I bet Dustin and Mike P would join in this season…anyway, think about it. It just takes one to pin a date down far enough ahead of time…

  70. J Pat – I’ll be in town for the Navy game which I think is Sept 7. I’m pretty sure there is also be a Peegs tailgate as well. Hopefully, Dustin will stop by to get quotes from me for whatever story he’s putting together that week.

  71. J Pat, you asked why Cody should be any different (I assume you mean from the likes of the one-and-dones)? He IS different. He’ll graduate in 2 1/2 years while playing on a Big Ten Championship team.

    Do you have any concept of how brutally difficult that must have been? I can’t even think of another athlete that pulled something like that off. It was all my kids could do to compete and carry an average class load, but graduating in 2 1/2 years??!! That’s astounding.

    I’ll try to take you up on that tailgate offer.

  72. Geoff, no need to meet Harvard for lunch, because you just ate his in post #83. But hey, how can facts ever compete with confused intuitive arguments?

    J Pat, I’m sorry that you do not recognize that all those expectations that you had for Cody, all those characteristics that you attributed to him did not come from the young man himself. I do not recall CZ ever saying that he would stay at IU for three years, four years, or until IU hung another banner. I do not remember CZ ever saying that he would continue to play BB until he completed his degree. Those are things that others suggested or inferred about him. But your disappointment in his departure implies that somehow, CZ’s character is diminished for wanting to pursue his dream of playing in the NBA and for wanting to secure his financial future. That’s just profoundly unfair. To me, CZ’s decision to leave for the NBA confirms my original assessment of the young man. He is very smart! Perhaps you should focus on the two great years he gave all Hoosier fans and the contribution he made in returning IU to one of the elite college basketball programs in the country. That would be more appropriate sentiment for such a fine young man.

  73. Wow Podunker, impressive! Completely agree, great statement…Cody only proved that he is an exceptional young man and anyone who is reasonable, mature and smart should be grateful for that.

    There is no way the word disappointment can be used in the same phrase with any of the four Hoosiers who appear to be leaving (five if Mo decides to do so- that too would be a tremendous loss of character to next year’s team).

  74. People who think that the 5 banners endow IU with a mystical aura that will forever enshroud the program and protect it from the rigors and demands of the current NCAA climate aught to also consider the outdatedness and anachrony of such banners. They came from a purer, simpler time, when Americans still thought they were God’s chosen (white) people, as they let companies pump them full of lead, asbestos, high fructose corn syrup, and trans fats, all in the name of corporate profit. (wow, how did I end up on this subject?)
    These days we have new problems and new challenges. Recruiting and winning championship, like capitalism, ain’t what it used to be. Time to leave the banner talk aside until it’s time to raise a new one.(courtesy: Sad Dawg- a.k.a Husky Tom}

  75. Po, maybe I am being selfish. Maybe Cody never said that but when you listened to his parents and even Cody talk and also all the media…you could get that sense of the things I said up top. Again, maybe I am selfish and maybe I am sad that they fizzled out this year, I am still blown away by the Temple and Syracuse games. I am speaking from the heart…I am fine with Vic leaving, no issue but the Cody thing leaves me uneasy! I wish him well and thank GOD he came to IU and I do appreciate him. Hey, 2nd time I bought a jersey and did not get to wear it for more than one season before the kid leaves…Gordon hit me too! TGIF and Go Hoosiers! BTW, read Calipari does not have near enough room for all of his McD’s kids…any chance we get one or two??

  76. Do we want any leftover McD kids?
    Is Crean & the IU fanbase ready to accept 1 and done?

    Suppose if 1 & done could be held to one a year it would be acceptable.?

    Think that is one of the ‘hurts’ we have with Cody. As you pointed out, he and his parents were stressing completion of his education. We expected 3 yrs of Cody. Vic- even if he had not completed his education I can understand the NBA call. He seemed to come out of nowhere and had such growth in skills. Kind of a grab it while you can issue. If Cody has reached his peak during the last year, and he understands that, than I can see his decision. I can understand Cody’s decision, based on next yrs draft position.

    Another issue, is CTC a developer of big guys. If not, that is an easy solution. Bring in a assistant coach who is. CTC needs to (and maybe does) act as CEO and surround himself with different skill sets in his assistants.

    Seems to me IU wasted opportunity during the pre-conference by not giving more game time to the bench. Especially with the team we had this year. Pre season I though we could have two teams with a back-up or two for each team. Way wrong on that. There were a handfull of games IU won (and lost) in the final 4-5 minutes. I’m not sure what happened to this team, or what more was needed but Something kept this team from putting together 40″ of strong basketball. I would guess they only reached maybe 75% of their potential?

    Coach Buckley interested in the FGCU position – Looking at the recruitment efforts for next couple of years, seems that Coach Buckley is very involved with the process especially the kids out west. Buckley leaves, do the recruits feel more of a connection with him than IU & Crean? That would have to be a balancing act for Crean and potential upgrading of Assistants.

    Sorry, too many random thoughts bouncing around brain.

  77. Ron, I was being goofy actually…I want kids that will do at least 3 years…if not 4! That is why I am so bothered with Cody leaving! But it is what it is! The NCAA should make kids stay 2 or 3 years, my opinion!

  78. Goodluck Okonoboh received a scholorship offer yesterday from CTC.

    Love the name and think the student section will have some fun with it.

    Couple of ‘good’ names next year.

  79. I remember Duke circa 1999. Elton Brand was the first early defector to the NBA, and their own Blue Devil doomsday prognosticators started screaming from the rooftops that it would be the demise of the program. There would be no more Dawkins, or Laettners, or Hills. The program turned out alright (their graduating seniors this year never left the top ten… In four years… That’s astounding.) But only because they were able to mix the blue chip Kyrie Irvings of the world with players that like Reddick and Plumlee that would continue to develop and provide leadership as upperclassmen.

    That ‘s a model we need to continue to follow. Any elite program these days should land a McD’s AA or two to stay competitive. But not if they’re all going to be gone after one or two years. Not at the expense of leadership and continuity. We do not want to fall into the trap of being in constant rebuilding mode.

  80. J Pat, yes, you are being selfish, and frankly, more than a little unreasonable. In addition, your post #97 makes you sound like a wannabe leftist dictator. “Make them get their degree.” What the heck is that? Is this still America? You know, the land of the free and the home of the brave? Cody Zeller is an adult and a U.S. citizen. He is free to do what he wants with his life. No one has the right to “make them get their degree.”

    J Pat, you’re a good guy, but your emotions appear to have clouded your judgement about Cody. Who cares what his parents said or implied or what his brother decided to do? He did not sign a contract with you or the Hoosier fan base. Cody’s his own man and circumstances change. Cody can’t help how you “read into” what other people, or the press said or implied about his future. In this country, when you’re 18, you’re free to do almost anything you want to do. And you’re also free to suffer the consequences of your choices. Somehow, I don’t think Cody is going to suffer anything bad as a result of his choice to enter the NBA. Other than that, nothing else really matters, least of all what you or anyone else thinks about it.

    Cody Zeller is going to get his degree from IU, probably within the next year. The only difference is that when he receives his diploma, he’ll already be a millionaire. And frankly, I think that’s wonderful!

  81. Po, chill out man…wow, thanks for slapping my hand! Have a nice weekend man! I will let it rest and you do as well please…you made your point!

  82. J Pat, I think similar to you. Student athletes on full scholarship should stay a minimum of 2 years and their academic schedule should be current toward earning a degree. It could at least put a bump in the road for the BB factories.

  83. JPat-

    Don’t worry about him. He’s an arrogant blowhole and a fraud. He thinks his opinion is the only opinion that matters. He thinks he’s an intellect. He really is clueless about basketball. You could take him to school on your knowledge of Indiana basketball. And you bring more to the table than just a preachy tongue. You actually go to games and support the team with dollars in the seats.

    Tell him to go suck an egg. It’s a blog and you are entitled to say as you please. Much like a Penn State locker room, or Catholic priest turned pedophile, they use arrogance and attempts to demean the importance of your just interpretations to safely guard and build thicker walls around a hideousness they intend to protect.

    You’re not saying anything wrong. You’re not thinking anything wrong. Your judgment is not clouded. The only thing clouded is his exaggerated view of himself. Clouded by years of pampering…My guess is that he’s a lifetime student that doesn’t have a clue on what it feels to get your hands dirty and do an honest day’s work.

  84. Oh, #104 is rich. The irony of Harvard calling anyone “an arrogant blowhard” is profound. And what does anyone’s knowledge about basketball have to do with the discussion J Pat and I were having? As usual, you went off the rails again.

    Harvard, a classic tactic of someone who can’t win the debate is when they have to resort to calling their opponent names. J Pat and I disagree on this point, but he has the class, maturity and dignity to not begin calling me names.

    J Pat, I’m sorry if that read as if I was coming on too strong. But I get excited when people suggest that others should be forced to do things, or that “there should be a law against …..” As you probably guessed, I’m big on liberty and freedom. In my opinion, the NBA’s rule of “one and done” is stupid and just wrong. Furthermore, I’m not for the NCAA punishing an 18/19 year old man for investigating his value in the NBA. He should be free to declare for the draft, see where he’ll go, and if it does not work out, and he has not been paid or provided any valuable consideration, he should be allowed to accept a college scholarship and continue his education. Let freedom flourish.

    Have a great weekend.

  85. Thats crazy talk Po.

    If what you suggest was reality, there would be no need for the ncaa.

    Then where would college sports be at.

  86. Isn’t “leftest dictator” an oxymoron? Well, I guess there is Castro…kinda.

    As you pointed out, the ‘one-and-done’ thing is an NBA rule basically making college basketball a farm league. I like the baseball rule. You can sign pro after high school but if you take a college scholarship you’re committed to three years. That totally rocks!

    The ‘one-and-done’ rule makes a mockery of college basketball. A kid will sign with a Triple A club like Kaintuck and take a couple of classes like “Vowels in Modern Culture” for one semester. The second semester they’ll take incompletes in “Modern Consonants” and wait for the draft. Some of them will strike it rich in the League. Statistics tell us that 3/4 of them will be bankrupt within 3 years of their pro finale.

    How many of you think Jordy Hulls is gonna end up bankrupt? Of course not. He’s a middle class kid who doesn’t think it all hinges on ‘making it big’. He knows the system.

    The one-and-dones are the kids that you should feel pity for. The system is set up for them to fail.

  87. What’s to debate? He bailed for money and he saved Crean’s job by coming to IU.

    I disagreed with Laffy and others on this blog all season long when he was accused of being “soft.”

    I was wrong. Based on how deep his commitment to changing the course of the last 26 years, he does look rather soft. Again, read many of the posts that proclaimed he shouldn’t return and take punishment from dirty players like McGary.

    Here’s a thought…How ’bout delivering some punishment? How ’bout showing the nation that candy-stripes doesn’t mean candy-a$$?

    I see this as no different than a company bailed out by the U.S. government and taxpayers still honoring a parachute package for a corrupt and inept CEO. Nothing admirable in throwing money at basketball phenoms that didn’t live up to the job anymore than throwing taxpayer dollars at upper management and CEO’s that duped investors. I see nothing admirable in rewarding children with millions of dollars that don’t stay committed to their teammates and university. Finish a race. Finish a class. Finish every day with the same goal you sold the fan base and the guy in the mirror your intent. The intent was to win a banner.

    They may have the freedom to to sell the goal short, but that doesn’t mean I have to slobber all over that freedom. He also had the “freedom” to come back and show his young point guard what it means to build a true dynasty. He also had the “freedom” to come back and prove he won’t go soft when someone pushes. He also has the “freedom” to be an example to young people that it doesn’t always have to be about the immediate gratification, the gigantic payouts, and the riches.

    There are plenty of rich and inept corporate bums bailed out by American taxpayers that could never finish a job if it was measured in honest work and honest goals. There are plenty of rich NBA players bailed out by NCAA rules and a system of overzealous media hype that allows for gross wealth without honest effort to see a job through to its honest end.

    And let’s not even start with the name-calling debate, Podunker.

    Perpetrating lies about me being and impostor using many different screen names(you did it again today when addressing ‘Bombay Saphire’)and making light of mental illness in the face of those that may have known or loved someone that truly suffers with issues of ‘multiple personalities’ is pretty indicative of your cold arrogance.

    It’s your freedom to spread lies on here. And it’s my freedom to tell you that you’re an arrogant a-hole in doing so.

  88. Chet…Leftist dictators an oxymoron? No,… besides Castro, the recently deceased Hugo Chavez of Venezuela, Correa of Ecuador, Bolivia’s Morales and Argentina’s Fernandez-Kirchner are all ‘leftist’-populist rulers.

    Interestingly, the history of fascism is filled with examples of totalitarian dictators who began as ‘leftist’ (used to be called socialist until the word was discredited) radicals including Benito Mussolini (he edited a Socialist newspaper early in his career) and Hitler himself had a ‘socialist’ structure that evolved into a ‘statist’ regime that one in power consolidated its authoritarian control of civil society and a clear anti-democracy ideology.

    Reading Podunker, I think he is a ‘libertarian’ who accentuates the individual’s role and freedom (I always wondered why the cry of ‘freedom!’ never explains for what and for what, but that’s another discussion) over other dynamics (class, sector, group, race…) but neither the left nor the right have disclaimed dictatorial powers when it has been convenient for them. You, in turn, often give hints of being much more liberal (on an American scale-as opposed to the Brits) and left-of-center as most post-Clinton Democrats.

  89. Hey Harv, do you want some cheese with that whine? I’ve never taken or used another screen name. And after it was pointed out, last week, that the person identified as Harvard was not the one using my screen name, I apologized for accusing you of doing that. But given that you have used so many screen names on this blog, it’s not hard to see how one could draw that conclusion.

    What lies have I perpetuated about you? And what would the purpose of doing that be?

    And Harvard, I don’t make light of mental illness, I just make light of some (a very small percentage) of your ridiculous, outrageous and irrational comments, especially when you unfairly attack people associated with IU and ascribe negative motives to their behavior. If your comments give people the impression that you have some serious “issues,” maybe you should think more before your fingers start flying across the keyboard to produce another inane rant.

  90. How cute. tomahawk and Harvard have created a mutual defense pact. Birds of a feather flock together.

  91. Podonkey, I am telling you again: you are the undisputed dunderhead of this blog, the undisputed king of rigmarole, tommyrot and prattle. A distant second is the midget, the diminutive Chewprt “the Squirt” (from Frankfort). But he usually puts up a short fight, whereas your obtuseness is for the long term, enduring, much like a natural monument.

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