IU target Maten commits to Georgia

Indiana spring recruiting continued its dry run when 6-foot-8 target Yante Maten of Bloomfield Hills, Mich., announced via Twitter Saturday night that he had committed to Georgia. Maten visited the Bulldogs prior to his trip to Bloomington last weekend.

During his Indiana visit, news broke that Michigan State had offered, and many thought Maten would be drawn to Tom Izzo’s home state program, but Maten opted for the Bulldogs instead.

Indiana continues to have three open scholarships for the 2014-15 season. Another top Hoosier target, 6-7 Josh Cunningham of Chicago, delayed his decision on Saturday. Cunningham, who was to announce this Wednesday, will instead his decision a week and visit South Carolina.

77 comments

  1. Nobody wants to play for CTC not even the 294th rank player in the nation. Cunnigham has set his date back to announce so he can visit wait for it……South Carolina. IU is competing with GA and Sc for players. We should be competing with NC, Duke & UK.

    I don’t have much but can scrape together some money. Let’s start the CTC buyout campaign.

  2. Get use to it Indiana fans…until Crean is gone we will get the kid’s nobody else wants.Glass is not smart enough to see this because he see’s nothing wrong with Crean.

  3. Can’t help but wonder if Maten made a poor choice because he didn’t think he could cut it in the Big 10.

  4. Im going to say it to Podunker: its ALL about “perception”..perception is reality and when CTC has to go toChicago to Defend program against mass exodus and Glass goes to Rotary to profess his confidence in CTC. they are instead reading the newspaper columns of Lopresti and New York times.These “targets” are getting feedback from parents and AAU coaches and HS Coaches. The Grapevine communication is hurting CTC and therefore hurting the program

  5. You all failed to mention that Maten also passed on Tom Izzo and MSU – his original #1 destination school. Georgia had offered Maten a long time ago, and Maten decided to go with the horse that courted him the longest and wanted him the most. Also, Maten knew that if he came to IU that he would likely have to spend some time at the 5 spot – this will not be the case at Georgia.

    Cunningham has a golden opportunity to come to IU and earn a starting spot at Small Forward, while also being close to home in Michigan – 90% chance he’ll be wearing Crimson & Cream in Bloomington next fall.

  6. I love watching UK and UofL play deep into the tournament while IU fans sit on a high horse. There will never be another coach Knight so we may have to swallow a few morals if we intend to play for another title. Coach Knight is the only reason IU basketball has any respect what so ever. Please give us a Pitino. A Calipari. A Izzo. A Ryan. A Matta. A Alford. Please.

  7. TJ in Texas,

    If you include in the “grapevine” those bloggers who’ve been continually bashing Crean as though he was the devil incarnate and hasn’t done one good thing for the IU program, or recruitment, or player development or even coaching the team, you’re right. And I wonder too if any of them will take a shred of responsibility for their role in turning recruits and their parents off of Crean and IU by their continuous dishing of Crean.

    Personally I doubt it. Of course, they’ll probably say I’m another apologist for Crean too, when I’m not. That’s what black/white thinkers do. No. It’s just that I believe in fairness when assessing any human being. I believe in recognizing what a person does well, while also recognizing the areas a person needs to develop too. I don’t know about you or these blogger bashers. But because of that, I recognize no human being is a bum and nothing but a bum as they seem to make of Crean.

  8. Should have known that empty sugary carbs was never going to be the breakfast of champions. What was once the floodgates of “Movement” recruits to cure any conscience for shoving Hoosiers off the team that honored the jersey during very low moments, is now an empty cupboard.

    I’m not sure if I’ve ever seen talent so underutilized along with such levels of indifference from those that exit and those that stay in the program.

    It was Crean that made so many young men just feel like a number next to their name. Creek, Remy, Etherington, Hollowell, Fischer leaving for simply more opportunity or homesickness? One-and-done center that’s unwilling to wait on the shooting guards that appear to be the next labeled saviors through the revolving door…? Looks like the floodgates have closed.

    The result of some negative voices on blogs? Get serious. Dustin was smirking at the charlatan two years ago. Kellenberger was writing about a lack of leadership and discipline four years ago when he watched a coach not take responsibility for a deliberate dirty play from one of his own. When Dumes threw three elbows in a game, we had to watch tape. Young men are leaving because they feel they were used for the sell job…They are leaving because they were duped. They are not signing because the indifference our coach once showed for kids he left hanging like chopped liver is now coming back to smack Crean in the forehead like a boomerang of his earlier cold and indifferent methods.

    Don’t even begin to blame the passions fading on a few bloggers that sensed the man had no real moral compass or basketball acumen. This is his own sh___t hitting the fan. This is Roth, Capobianco, Patterson, Remy, Creek, Fischer and all the other expendables now casting the indifference back onto Indiana that was cast upon them. It’s all good. We pray in the locker room before every game and we have the occasional trophy wife to send to the Charlotte Bobcats. Empty calories from an empty coach…What the hell did you expect? Dustin doesn’t smirk for nothing when a coach answers a question with “it moves, it just moves.

    I think it more rolls than moves…The fog is rolling in and it’s rapping at Crean’s door like Poe’s raven.

  9. I find all this somewhat amusing. I remember when IU went to Atlanta and some IU people were wearing t-shirts that read: “Bobby Who?” A year ago we had the “We’re Back” t’s.
    An actual headline from the Indy paper said: “Help is on the way”. Gee, where have I heard that before? Tom Crean is not the bumbler that Mike Davis was. Nor the phony that Sampson was. He’s a tireless recruiter but I believe an average tactician. The script is getting stale. Had Watford missed 3 seasons ago, IU would have blown a big lead at home against a hated rival and we wouldn’t be talking here. Yet you can now buy a painting of “Wat’s Shot”.

    IU has had how many presidents, A.D.’s, and coaches in the last 15 yrs?
    If Tom Crean left for the NBA tomorrow, do you really think it would be different?

  10. Walt, Agreed it is black-white thinking and as someone else posted he also said no to Izzo’s home state invite.

  11. coachv,

    Valium and prozac are really needed for Crean’s blogger bashers. It would calm them down. It would help them avoid being stuck in absolutist, black/white, either/or, irrational thinking. It would help them be more fair and balanced in their assessments of Crean and IU. Plus, it just might help them see the good in any human being, and themselves, not just the dark side which exists within us too.

    Also, it might help them become aware of, or remember, an old Navy saying,which is quite applicable to their blogs, namely: “Loose lips sink ships.” For they do. While Crean’s absolutist bashers may not be aware their loose lips, including their dark-sided assessments, are not now helping recruitment, a vital ingredient for IU’s program to get better, they do.

    You say you don’t believe it. Well, put yourselves in the shoes of a recruit. If you were reading these blogs from the emotionally reactive blogger bashers, who focus obsessively on Crean’s weaknesses, and IU,–and the two are interrelated–would you be interested in coming to IU and make the program better? I don’t think so.

  12. WaltD …I doubt the bloggers here only matter to the bloggers here.By saying “grapevine,Im talking about fellow plsyers,coaches,AAU coaches,and respected columnists of newspapers and magazines. An anology would be yur workplace,IF a rumor is heard about a potential layoff,and top management tells you “everything” is fine. Fellow workers tell you things arent fine,newspaper articles hint( because of economy) things arent fine,and your immediate supervisor blows you off when you ask about the “status”.Chances are you ignore top management comments and listen to those closest to you( true or false). Your “perception is shaped by those you trust and or are in the same boat. IF you notice I have not mentioned bloggers here;insted Ive tried to focus on people that live in the REAL world of the recruiting targets. CTC made hay last year in recruiting Troy,Noah,Stan,and Luke based on developement of Cody and Vic and PERCEPTION that CTC can coach. IF the perception changes so does the perception that CTC can coach and harder looks are being made at HIM and the program

  13. Nobody wants to play for Crean? Should we say that about Izzo now as well? I’m sure everyone pretty much had this kid a lock to go to MSU.

  14. From the Atlanta Journal-Constitution:

    “I was told he and his family weren’t happy with Michigan State because they waited until the other schools offered before they offered him,” said Dan McDonald, a recruiting analyst for Rivals.

    “I think the other big thing that drew him to Georgia is that he’s got a major that is animal-related. I don’t think Michigan State or Indiana had that major.”

  15. I guess it’s the bloggers fault IU couldn’t inbound the ball at the end of the Penn State game and then discussing it afterwards.SHAME SHAME SHAME.

  16. TJ, it’s blanket statements like “Crean can’t coach” that really hurt IU’s perception, whether it’s through the grapevine, national media, or local bloggers like us. It’s been said so often and perpetuated by so many people lately that some have come to accept it as fact, when all it’s really ever been is unfair, unbalanced opinion.

    Everybody is certainly entitled to their opinion, and open dialog is a wonderful thing. I’ve seen a more concerted effort lately by Po, DD, Walt, Ben, and many others to seek some “middle ground” in the discussion… but even that is a bit of a misnomer. (There aren’t any absolutist, “Crean is a great coach,” hard line supporters on here as far as I can tell.) The only counter effort to the bashers are the moderates who point out the things Crean’s detractors can’t see or won’t acknowledge.

    Even the moderates concede certain deficiencies in Crean’s coaching ability or express displeasure in (parts of) his personality. You can count me in that demographic. I don’t think any of us are convinced Crean is the long-term answer. Some of his antics rub me the wrong way, and he’s shown an increasing inability/unwillingness to address his own shortfalls. He’s alienated some players and fans through his actions on and off the court. But we’re also not convinced that he can’t change/improve. Was last year’s success (NCAA tournament notwithstanding) more flukish than this years overall disappointment? Have we peaked, plateaued, or regressed to the mean? Or did we just hit a bump in the road? You can pick and choose talking points to support any claim, but when you look at the overall picture all we’re truly left with is uncertainty going forward. To claim otherwise, good or bad, is irresponsible conjecture.

  17. I suppose a better way to say it is “an increasingly apparent inability/unwillingness to address his own shortfalls.” It may have been there all along. Bottom line is, I think there is certainly cause for concern. What I don’t think there is cause for– at least not yet– is cause for panic, overreaction. and/or broad-stroke commentary that doesn’t accurately paint the bigger picture.

  18. TJ in Texas,

    Thanks much for clarifying your comment. I appreciate it, TJ. I too doubt what bloggers say here matters only to bloggers. What is said here, doesn’t stay here. What’s said here does enter into the large buzz with players, coaches, AAU coaches, and columnists, as you’ve pointed out. and I might add parents too.

    That’s why I think it’s very important for bloggers to engage in fair and truthful speech which reflects quality analysis,and contributes to responsible and civil speech and thus healthy discussions. As you know, words matter. Words are powerful. They can hurt. They can inflict pain. They can do severe damage to organizations and individuals.

    As our Navy understood in W.W. II, “loose lips” can indeed sink ships. When coupled with irresponsible speech, they can do great harm to universities, coaches and athletes too. That’s why I believe it is important we use words responsibly and ground our statements in facts and truth, plus be fair and balanced, thus seeking to provide light to a discussion while doing no harm. I believe this is important lest our emotions blind us and our words impact others adversely. Or, we inflict harm on a great university and prevent its basketball program from getting better. Words, as you know, can do that. And again, thanks for your words.

    Ram,

    As to you comment, I’m sorry you didn’t or don’t get it. I thought I made myself clear. But maybe I didn’t. Hopefully, in the near future, you will get it. It’s important both for you and me you do if you want to see a great university and basketball program get better sooner.

  19. Punjab & WaltD-

    What bloggers say matters? Much like all the attacks against Lynch and the constant campaign by some on blogs against Mallory? Wow…You’ve got to really be sick in the head to scare kids away from IU football when the program has struggled for so many years.

    The only thing that hurts IU basketball is the under-performing and confusion present every time a Crean team takes the floor. And his loyalty/indifference to recruits that need just as much personal signs of appreciation as an NBA phenom is killing finding strong bench/role players. Maybe he’s not told them “leave the team, or else,” but blowing guys off like Roth, not willing to bend one inch for Patterson, players getting “homesick”…a really hard working kid like Remy deciding he’s better off elsewhere….? Juxtapose those departures against the investment in very, very raw A-Hope projects that steal minutes?

    Recruits listen to announcers, as well. I don’t know how many broadcasts I’ve watched and listened to Dakich never stop talking about inexcusable mistakes and the stagnancy/confusion present on the floor. Nobody watching is oblivious to his implications…We all know that he’s talking of lack of leadership and lack of coaching. He doesn’t have to utter the name of the head coach.

  20. watching1 of the NCAA tourney stations yesterday;they were discussing Kentucky. The moderator on the show pointed out that on Mar 8th , Louisville had beaten Kentucky 81 to 48 and wanted to know what changed ina month. Kenny Smith replied ” Attitude and player developement”….2 ingredients missing from the 2014 team

  21. TJ,

    Get your facts straight. Louisville beat UCONN 81 – 48 not Kentucky. Kentucky beat Louisville in Dec 73 – 66.

    I’m surprised that I was able to even understand you through your incoherent syntax. I really hope to Jesus that you didn’t graduate with a degree from IU.

  22. Jeremy-

    Everybody on this blog has made very disparaging remarks about various players and coaches…But when you allow personal attacks against fellow bloggers(constant insults and demeaning comments referencing intelligence/education..And some of the remarks get very crude with sexual innuendo involved), I think it’s rather sad. Haven’t we gone down that road before?

    None of us on this blog are flawless when it comes to over-the-top remarks about players and coaches. I remember terrible attacks against Watford and Hulls. And that’s merely the tip of the iceberg.

    I think you need to do something about the arrogant tone and mean-spirited nature of the insults with the community of what is now your so-called regulars. I really don’t believe any contributor should get on here and act so damn superior. And we really have no way of knowing if some of these people have changed their screen names from long ago…It’s possible that someone standing on flawless podium may have been throwing out far more vile garbage at coaches and players under a different disguise from months past.

    Why are you allowing such personal insults from one contributor aimed at another contributor? Is it simply that Crean is off limits while many former players and past basketball/football coaches is fine and dandy?

  23. say brother! if you want to “Hope to Jesus” you’ve come to the right place! we got bible verses, psalms, prayer groups, and miracles! we have a head coach who speaks in tongues because lord knows, no one can understand what he’s a sayin’. we even have popcorn and balloons for the little ones so come on down and put your faith in coach crean because poorly played basketball is god’s will!

    as an added bonus if you sign up by easter, we can all bear witness to the resurrection of Harvard’s dog!

    can I get an amen!

  24. I wasn’t around for the Lynch firing, Harv, so I don’t know what all was said. I was here for the Mallory firing, and although I’d hoped for a different outcome and thought some of the fan commentary was rather harsh, I understood and supported the decision to let him go when we did. But I think I’ve been pretty consistent with my message about having patience until it’s painfully obvious a change has to be made. Doesn’t matter if it’s IU FB, BB, Chicago Cubs, Cleveland Browns, Edmonton Oilers, or Sri Lanka cricket. Knee jerk firing lends itself to and/or is a symptom of instability, with no guarantee a better option is around the corner. (How many coaches have the Browns– or for that matter, the Hoosiers– been through in the last decade or two?) Program/team administrators listen to the fans. You don’t think the grumblings on the internet and radio sports talk add to the pressure and exacerbate the situation?

    Since we’re using Navy references, I urge caution to the vocal few who insist the ship is sinking every time we hit troubled waters. If we bail out prematurely, we may find ourselves stuck in the middle of the ocean on a lifeboat while the ship sails away without a crew. A steady captain doesn’t bend to the whims and cries of a skittish crew, but knows when his vessel’s in real trouble.

    Again, I get the frustrations and many of the criticisms are completely legitimate. It was a bad year, and there are signs it could get worse. Changes have to be made, but at this point I think they need to be made from within. There’s nothing in place that can’t be fixed with a little introspection and humility… and maybe a reliable big man roaming the post. Incessant ranting and manufactured distress only serve to rattle the fan base and hasten instability.

  25. And if Crean or any of his players are taking that much stock and investment of time in what is said on blogs, we have much bigger problems than anything that’s been implied on here.

    Cody was attacked for being soft.
    Hulls was attacked for being the worst defender in basketball.
    Crean has been implicated for his team displaying the worst halfcourt offense in all of college basketball.
    Watford was attacked for his laziness and it was said the Hoosier ship had sailed without his needed presence.
    VJ III was endlessly attacked.
    Remy Abell was constantly made the brunt of jokes on in-game Live Chats.
    It was said that Etherington, Howard, and Marlin had no business every seeing the floor.

    These comments have ALL been made from regulars on Scoop.

    Do we even need to begin to speak of the campaigns against those in leadership positions within football?
    How many examples do you want?

    It’s the nature of the beast….Fans are rarely happy with every aspect of the team. Teams fail to get into tournaments/bowls and the volume gets louder and more frequent..Everyone seeks a scapegoat.

    But from my observations, it appears you’re fine with personal attacks(primarily one blogger insulting another for their lack of “comprehension,” “rational” behavior, “syntax,” grammar, “TCDS,” etc) when its Crean’s honor that’s being defended while such insults are made from the bloated windbags that constantly talk of their worldliness and degrees that don’t cast shame upon the fine institution, the Harvard for the Hillbillies, of the Midwest. Are all of you the members of the ‘The Small Woodpeckers Yacht Club?’

  26. Harvard,

    Do I really need to go through and post some of your Greatest Hits?

    coachv, I have spit coffee out of nose about twenty times this week with your posts. You kill me, man.

  27. There’s nothing in place that can’t be fixed with a little introspection and humility…

    And you may have hit the nail on the head with that one. That is, in my humble opinion, the ugly sore that keeps oozing pus. You have found the symptom of a much deeper infection. Please answer honestly…Has Tom Crean exhibited one ounce of introspection or humility?

    As has been pointed out here many times…Listen to other top coaches around this country when their teams underperform. Do they not bear some responsibilty? Do they not take a good portion of the heat? Do they not almost encourage such accountability to fall on their own shoulders rather than search for excuses or deflect criticism toward their roster? Have we had a coach that even begins to act like a captain in a storm? He curses the last storm rather than take the ship’s wheel and focus on a more positive course of energy and tranquility. He searches for the sea witches that sunk the last vessel. He talks of better crew members to come and seaman moving to better voyages while the humble members, the real workhorses of the vessel, feel like spoiled grub for the captain’s dog.

    Yes, you hit the nail on the head. We have no captain aboard this ship.

  28. People can have at Crean all they want. No one is telling anyone what they can and can’t say. However, I do find it incredibly curious that for as much as people brag about their basketball acumen, how little actual basketball gets discussed. It is all about the Coach, all the time. It’s like Godwin’s Law for Indiana Basketball fans. The more comments that are made, the greater someone starts complaining about Crean approaches one.

    Even worse, most of the comments could be straight out of a gossip column. It’s as if you are down at the salon chattering away about Crean and how you can’t believe he’s taking your daughter to the prom.

  29. Basketball hasn’t been played by any Hoosier team in the last few weeks.

    And there’s been plenty of discussion about players(roster departures and roster hopefuls)…Yup, plenty of talk about those no longer in love with candy stripes and some fine young men who were once Hoosiers that now prefer to play elsewhere.

    Difficult to discuss games when they’re not being played. Maybe if we could have beaten some Big 10 patsies in our own house, we’d be still be discussing things that happen on the court.

  30. The short answer to your question, Harv, is yes. But not nearly enough. I can’t even remember the context of specific instances right now, and I’m checking posts on my mini-breaks from prepping my garden, so I’m not going to bother researching them right now. But due to the infrequency of self-effacing commentary amidst all of Crean’s re-directional blather, I take notice of the precious few moments where he does exhibit moments of humility and personal responsibility. Just enough to give me hope that maybe we’ll one day see more. If you were really inclined to find these moments, you can. We all know you can drudge up some history when you want to.

  31. Does this sound like a 6-year witch hunt attitude?

    UK vs UConn…What a wonderful representation of what college basketball is all about.

    Do they into a decade’s long self-persecution mode? Does the NCAA target them for frivolous infractions? Will there be any commentary from announcers(anything resembling the harshness of attitudes toward Sampson) for Calipari or Kevin Ollie’s predecessor? Guaranteed NOPE!

    The Establishment only wants those terrible Hoosiers to self-impose the heaviest of woes…We must stick with our ongoing leader that guides us to shame and confessionals of how we burned it all to the ground…Stick with the great mind we hired that will never let us forgot just how low and despicable of an example for college basketball we let ourselves become. We are not finished paying for those sins. We are Indiana. We must forever pay. Our fines shall be the never ending self-indignation while damning ourselves to deserved incompetence in teaching the game we took for granted and spoiled. We deserve purgatory. We will live it while the rest of the college basketball landscape gets over their sins in one short season.

    Thank you, UConn…Thank you, Kentucky. Thank you for the introspection and the humility. Thanks for bringing class back to college basketball..We are finally blessed to have found a coach that will lead us to the Final Four round of salvation while you perpetuate the light in a sea of darkness, bring college basketball back into respectability and honor, while we gladly eternally pay for sstan 3-way under ‘Kelvin the Wrecker.’

  32. The TCDS sufferers, the absolutists, the black/white thinkers will continue to vent their spleens in futility for quite a while. At every piece of news they interpret as bad for IU basketball, they’ll write, “see, that proves it, Crean can’t coach, Crean can’t recruit, kids are turning away from Crean, the sky is falling, etc.” They’re like the judges that convened the Salem witch trials.

    The Crean-haters negative posts are not going to have any impact on Crean’s tenure at IU or his ability to perform his job (i.e., recruit), but they’re hoping they do. And while they may end up being right about Crean not having enough success to remain in charge of IU basketball, if his teams’ performance improves significantly, some Crean-haters’ negative comments will dissipate faster than flatulence in a windstorm. But my guess is that some will forever be dissatisfied and continue bashing Crean, no matter what level of success his teams achieve. To those people, nothing but winning championships is good enough for IU basketball. If Crean leads IU back to the Sweet 16 next year, the Crean-haters will be harping that his team should have gotten to the Final Four. If he leads IU to the final four, it won’t be good enough, because to those people, IU should have won the championship. The Crean-hater’s proof that Crean will never win a championship is that he never has, therefore he is not good enough for IU basketball. And every little innocuous news story they deem negative for IU basketball will reinforce their steadfast belief that Crean is the wrong guy for the job and needs to go, immediately.

    Vent your spleens until your hearts are content, guys. It won’t have any affect on IU basketball’s performance, but I’m sure it makes you feel better. Given your standards and expectations, the odds are in your favor. But if IU basketball realizes significant improvement next year, will you have the integrity to log on to this site and confess that you were totally wrong? I doubt it, because nothing but a championship will satisfy you. As a result, you’re going to continue being unhappy with IU’s basketball coach, for most of the rest of your lives. IU has won five NCAA basketball Championships. How many years has IU been playing basketball? You can do the math.

  33. dd

    kinda gross, but, um, thanks.

    I would love to discuss strategy and x and o’s but as far as I can tell no one on here is equipped for such a discussion. my previous attempts have proven fruitless.
    when we lost on a last second inbounds play to, who was that, penn st? crean had the team in man to man. I believe you should always play a 2-3 match-up when defending under your basket to eliminate screens and cuts. jeez, crean had a big guarding on the perimeter.

    other dialogue concerning strategy has met with crickets, or worse, so I gave up. most people, I find, if they haven’t learned something by the time they turn 15, they don’t want to know.

  34. Coachv, speaking of in bounds plays, we really struggled this year and getting the ball in bounds. Especially at the end of game when the opposing team was pressing after a made basket. What would you have done?

  35. To those people, nothing but winning championships is good enough for IU basketball.

    And that was the exact measure that is used when discussing Knight’s twilight years as failure. Simply because it’s not Crean’s twilight, why shouldn’t deep tournament runs be a measure of job performance? He achieved a deep run while at Marquette. Wasn’t that success important to evaluating his resume when he was hired by Indiana. Why should failure to make deep tournament runs over a period of 40 million dollars in salary not give reason for a change? We’ve experienced nearly a 30 drought since a championship. I don’t remember fans advocating that Davis should receive millions in contract extensions for reaching a championship game. He was always under heavy pressure and scrutiny. Why on earth should it be any different for Tom Crean? Now he’s the beneficiary of a kinder and gentler money-tossing Hoosier Nation than what Knight(latter years), Davis, or Sampson had to face?

    We all know what “zero tolerance” was about. It was about losing confidence in Knight ever taking us back to banner glory. It had nothing to do with rude tongue or grabbing a snotty disrespectful spoiled brat by the arm.

    Quit being hypocrites. You chased Mallory out for wanting bowl games. Fans have every right and duty to not accept incompetence(especially considering the ridiculous and unwarranted contract extensions involving millions).

    Nobody is demanding a championship banner…We want solid coaching and we want to see less excuses. We want talent to be beyond individual accolades and translate to a team that can evolve into something beyond the sum of its parts. Sweet 16 parties are for Ball St., Indiana St., Lafayette teams.

  36. Meteor….its all good!! Im outta here ….stick up for crean or criticize…either way, the world isnt going to get saved in here. Just a reminder as I close the door behind me……all these highly recruited targets talk to each other thru the summer( and anyone else thats IMPORTANT to them)…………………………………………………………………………………Go Hoosiers!!!!

  37. I believe Double Down would be very receptive to a coachv ‘in bounds’ play discussion…..It would likely include a tub of peanut butter, the shortcomings of dribble drive strategy, post entry plays, going backdoor, the importance of a good bench, and an overall penetrating examination of basketball analytics.

  38. TJ,

    Settle down. It is time to man up. If you’re going to call someone an incompetent, you should probably get your facts straight. You spend a lot of time very critical of a Coach who you think completely stinks at his job. You don’t have to search very far for substantive ammo.

    Also, I mean this genuinely. You’ve got something to say, but I honestly can get through most of your posts because they’re written so poorly. See this as encouragement to improve. Personally, I find the biggest sign of respect to be when someone is honest with me even if it hard to hear it. You have a lot of passion and you care about our Hoosiers, it would be nice to see you put some style to it.

  39. Its Indiana Its Indiana!!!!! Try and have cal say that like crean can. We may never win much or even make the tourney but we have a guy who can say Its Inidana! Thats worth at least 3 million a year.

  40. Also as stated davis made the championship game and many stil l wanted him to fail. No big raise or anything for him. He had it way worse then crean has it now. No matter what happen s crean leaves a very rich man thank to fred glass.

  41. Here’s my Final Four match-up for ‘Unofficial Meteorologist’ top anagrams:

    Semiofficial Toot Lounger vs. Official Looniest Gourmet

    A Ufologist Emoticon Rifle vs. Gooiest Muffler Coalition

    I’m picking ‘A Ufologist Emoticon Rifle’ to win it all.

  42. This one is for Jeremy…And for the record, Jeremy never loses control. Is it just me, or does Jeremy look a bit like some of the shots of “Dan” in the upcoming song dedication?

    Who wants to end the night with some Daniel Grayling “Dan” Fogelberg!? I do, Harvard…I do!!

    Bet you’ve never thought of Fogelberg for a Hoosier Morning song clip…Only Harvard…Only Harvard.

  43. I’m going to stop attacking Crean. It’s wrong. It’s not in the spirit of being a Hoosier. Fogelberg only lived until age 56. Very interesting bio on Wikipedia. His voice was near heavenly and I believe it was a message to me. It brought back a lot of memories of happier times and working with my father. His voice brought me back to the precious minutes in our lives that evaporate so quickly…But new happiness can still be found. It’s time to be stronger and forgiving.

  44. HfH,

    Last night, I tried to get a post to you inviting feedback from you. But I couldn’t get through. So I’ll try again.

    Relative to your comments in #24 about “Everybody on this blog has made…(and I’m abbreviating them) disparaging remarks, …personal attacks….and demeaning comments,” I invite your feedback on mine.

    To begin, with my words, I haven’t intended to disparage, demean or disrespect you or others much less Crean. My intent has been just the opposite. I’ve sought to improve a blog, another one I consider toxic, and make a contribution which would raise the level of discourse so it consists of more truthful, fair and responsible speech, grounded in facts and couched in constructive criticism. I believe this is important to create a healthy blog environment, which sheds light on issues not heat and darkness. Also, I believe a healthy blog environment, filled with diverse opinions, can contribute to making the IU basketball program better, not worse, and do it sooner rather than later.

    Having said that, I know I’m not flawless. I know I have blind spots too. I’ve tried to challenge people appropriately, for challenge enables us to grow and blossom. But I know too challenging people to think differently and get out of their comfort zone and blossom, can be misunderstood, seen in a negative light, and taken personally. So I’d appreciate your specific feedback, HfH, on whether you perceive my words to be disparaging, demeaning and disrespectful. Such constructive feedback will enable me to understand your world, how you perceive words, and the meaning you give to them. It will help me contribute to diminishing the toxic environment of this blog. Above all, it can help me grow and continue my effort to make the world a better place, not worse. So I look forward to your feedback.

  45. Wow after coming to this site once in awhile and reading what many say it is easier to understand why I don’t come here often. Many of you evidently have very negative lives. How sad!

  46. WaltD-

    The Scoop is not toxic. It’s is a rare place of nature in the sea of human courage, trust, fears, lies, and truths. I have faith in my fellow shipmates. I have faith in Captain Dopirak and Helmsman Price to navigate us through the storms and the days of absent wind in our sails when tensions build. And through that voyage we become closer and learn we are all prisoners to the sea and to the powers that made her and gave her to us….Blessed her fierce and honest waves. Blessed her glass surface she marries to a sunrise and toasts to a sunset. Blessed her darkness and her white caps and the sound her force that humbles the most unsinkable hull.

  47. It is a sad day when Indiana is losing recruits to Georgia and potentially South Carolina. With all the bad press Tom Crean is getting, he is going to need to be a miracle worker to get some post players that can actually contribute to the coming season. If he does not, the aura of IU basketball will continue to diminish and a coaching change will be called for at the end of next season. Currently, IU cannot be considered a premier program like Duke, Kansas and Kentucky.

  48. The state of Indiana produces more than just a few top players If Crean is such a great recruiter where are the Indiana kids? You can,t just get one or maybe two go get the kids who are Indiana people not all the players from some where who does,nt have that Indiana pride. we are so young is no longer an excuse just ask Ky.

  49. Don’t give up on Hanner. Perea showed signs of becoming a very special talent. He has a nice soft touch around the basket…He may just blow our minds in how quickly his game improves. Davis is also a wonderfully instinctive inside player with a real natural feel for the game.

    We may have missed the NCAA tournament…But don’t kid yourself, the NCAA tournament missed the candy stripes more. There is nothing like the mystique of Indiana Basketball. It was present many moons before the Knight and will rise again to a new dawn.

  50. UConn 78
    UK 74

    The way Calipari hugs and kisses his players is beginning to creep me out. It looks scripted. His run is over.

  51. HfH; I think you’re smart enough to understand the obvious differences between my criticism of Mallory and my disagreement with the Crean-haters of late, and why the two situations are completely different. There’s obviously no hypocrisy, but many of us know you like to parse people’s comments to fit your own narrative and biases. So I’ll explain it again, just in case you missed it before.

    Mallory never achieved any kind of success while at IU. His defenses were never good. In fact they were terrible, some of the worst defenses in the country. His defenses did not win games, IU won in spite of them. He showed no signs of recruiting top talent or developing average talent into solid defensive players. Crean has lead IU basketball back from the ashes and has achieved significant success (sweet 16, first outright Big Ten Championship in decades, recruiting top players and guiding 3 players to become NBA lottery picks, graduation rates, defeated numerous top-ten teams, etc.).

    Mallory’s termination did not cost IU millions in cash or risk losing a very good recruiting class. In fact, Mallory’s termination may have enhanced recruiting better defensive players and may result in increased cash-flow from IU football. Firing Crean would do serious financial damage to IU’s Athletic department and probably set the program back at least a year or two in recruiting and player transfers.

    I think it is you who is being the hypocrite. You defended Mallory in spite of the obvious reasons why he should have been terminated, relative to any reasonable criteria. Yet for some time now, your well chronicled Crean-bashing had more to do with Crean expressing his Christian faith than it did with the results he achieved as IU’s basketball coach. I find your criteria for criticizing Crean, while supporting Mallory, in spite of the glaring difference in the results the two men achieved, to be highly suspect.

  52. Basketball is a far different game than football. I exceptional talent can change everything.

    You can’t compare evaluating a football coach attempting to rebuild the talent depth it takes to bring a long suffering football program into some sort of attractiveness to the same recruits looking at neighboring top programs.

    Even in the grips of terrible downward spiral, one basketball recruit can change a coach’s world. I wouldn’t equate that to Hoosier basketball ocach’s resume outshining a IU football coach’s task to field eleven players that erase decades of recruiting advantages the true powerhouses of the conference.

    Today is a good day, Podunker. I will let you decide where the hypocrisy begins and ends.

  53. Commenting on HFH post #58…. I try to consider Perea as a young Hakeem Olajuwon, perhaps.

    If I were coaching IU I’d have film on Olajuwan as mandatory viewing for Perea. Id have working on post moves. I recall when the U of Houston players were how good he was, they’d reply, he’s better today than he was yesterday. Patience is what us needed with Crean, the IU players, & the program. I’ve always taken pride that IU fans were knowledgeable. But the comments here don’t usually discuss basketball. One thing I’d like to know more about is the possibility of getting Trevor Thompson, Ben Davis grad & transfer recruit from VaTech. E sounds like the type of player that would fit in well at IU. I’d like to see more discussion about TT and his game, skill level. Anyone know?

  54. Harvard for Hillbillies,

    HfH, is “The Scoop is not toxic” your response to my specific request for constructive feedback from you regarding your statement “Everybody on this blog has made very disparaging remarks…personal attacks about fellow bloggers…and demeaning comments…relative to “intelligence” and “education?” I’d appreciate your response.

  55. HfH,

    A simple “yes” or “no” response will do, if that’s the best you can do right now.

  56. I have,for the most part,written on here about the effect of the rumor mill/perception of coach Crean and the subsequent effect on the program. Unlike most here,I havent had the opportunity to watch IU Basketball game in/game out. Usually on CBS or ESPN,military service took me to Illinois and the death of my second wife brought me to Texas.Illinois is classic example how the perception/rumor mill can hurt a program. Lou Henson winningest coach in Illinois history;in 20 years placed 13 teams in the AP top 20. When he was fired,he was thought too soft,too laid back,couldnt recruit. Eventually perception became reality ..if you want further proof…go ask the Director of basketball OP….Rob Judson…..he played for Henson and can tell you the effects of the rumor mill on both.

  57. dd

    there are 4 scenarios inbounding against the press: man to man, zone, and again in deadball situations. against either the most important thing is to get the ball in as quickly as possible. ball should never hit ground after going thru the net. next is inbound as deep as possible. deep inbounds breaks the press instantly. in deadball situations you have the luxury of running set inbounds plays.

    against man to man press I prefer to open the court and have 2 of my men run down to our offensive end. who I use where can depend on defensive matchups. (I would never have hollowell on the floor against pressure). prefer not to waste my point inbounding the ball. I like the point working with a teammate with the slowest defender on him. if defenders switch on screen you now have your point being guarded by the other teams slowest defender. another benefit created by the 2 man screen play is on a switch one of your players immediately has his defender on his back as he rolls toward the baseline. 2 man screen game can be run perpendicular or parallel to baseline. once point has the ball all players can clear out and let point bring ball up one on one. there are many variable at play against man press but you make adjustments on the fly. too many to go thru here.

    deadball against zone I put 2 guards near top of key and 2 split wide at halfcourt. 2 at key break to ball. important not to inbounds too close to sideline or baseline). if one of them get the pass weakside halfcourt player flashes to key to receive pass. (this players also performs that cut if neither guard gets open). press broken at this point. he now reverses ball to opposite side where weakside guard is streaking up the sideline. pass thru zone press-don’t dribble. catch pass, turn and face knowing where all your teammates will be. you can always pass fake, then dribble if necessary. inbounder always stays behind the ball for safety and ball reversal. face guarding can also be beaten by sealing your defender much like a post player and lobbing over top.

    so many options. I have even run stacks (like you see in jr high) both vertically and horizontally. virtually cannot be defended, although most coaches think they are corny at high levels. a basic fundamental against press is to reverse thru the middle where weakside will always be open.

    so many options to drone on here. this discussion better suited to a pitcher and a stack of cocktail napkins. point is your team should be well-practiced in all press scenarios and inbounds plays. iu was clearly clueless too often this season.

  58. coachv,

    Thanks for sharing your strategies for inbounding the ball against a press. Appreciate it. If you think Crean and staff are unaware of such strategies, why not forward them directly to Crean? Or, if you think they are aware of same, why do you think IU had difficulty implementing these strategies with inbounding the ball? Also, what would you have done differently, if you were the coach at IU, to help the team integrate and implement them successfully every game?

  59. I’m sure crean gets letters and emails from crackpots all the time that go unopened. as they should. I’m sure he thinks he knows best. I did, on a lark, send a letter and resume to mike davis when he was short on coaches just as the season was set to begin offering to help out as a volunteer coach. of course, I knew he wouldn’t hire me but what the hell. of course he ended up hiring a high school coach who probably wasn’t very good. at least he had the class to respond.

    I have found that many coaches think things like inbounds plays are beneath them. as players get older they understand things like sealing a defender or breaking deep when face guarded which can put a defense in a bad spot. I think at higher levels coaches let players handle it. I don’t subscribe to that way of thinking at the college level.

    what I would do to “integrate and implement” is practice often. coaches call them “special situations” and you need plays for many different inbounds situations. both baselines, sidelines front court, sidelines backcourt, verses man, man run and jump double team, 1-2-2 press, 1-2-1-1 press, 2-2-1 press. also against all these run as full court press, 3/4 court press, and some of these as half court trap. as you can see, this becomes very time consuming with the limited practice time that you have. I always had a small playbook of around 30-40 pages. every 2 weeks we had an exam on the plays and if you scored less than 70% you didn’t play the next game. without that I found that most players never studied and memorized the plays.

    it’s a lot and you want to make sure your players aren’t paralyzed in thought on the court which explains why my first year players usually didn’t play much.

  60. Correction:
    Crean did not recruit Victor – – he was a walk-on; same for Will Sheehy. Hulls was a done deal for IU and involved
    no serious effort on Crean’s part. He inherited VJ and
    CWat. He did recruit Zeller with the help of Glass, the
    Varsity Club rep in Washington, Indiana, and others who made the trip with C to meet Zeller. He did recruit Yogi,
    Austin, et al. He still does not know many h.s. coaches in
    Indiana. Cal Cheany would have been a tremendous help in
    that department, but he left after 2 years with Crean.

  61. coachv,

    Thanks much for sharing your basketball knowledge and experience as a coach. I hope you still will send your suggestions to Crean. I have twice, and with Glass once. And I got an acknowledgement re: all three each time.

    Granted Crean may not have read mine, like our congressional representatives too. But they generally have people on board gathering this info and providing them with succinct reports. Crean, and Glass, may just do the same. Besides, it’s not generally one letter that brings about change, but a plethora of them that does. But you can be part of that change.

    I like your focus on practice and the playbook. I played basketball in high school and Jr. College. That, of course, was many, many moons ago. But we didn’t have playbooks. The coaches would share and demonstrate plays to us right on the floor. Then we’d practice, practice, and practice repetitively. Of course, we didn’t have many. They kept both the plays and the game simple. But we did engage in a lot of deliberate practice, particularly with the basic fundamentals, including mastering the art of free throw shooting.

    Last night’s game demonstrated once again the importance of such fundamentals. As you know doubt observed, UConn’s sound fundamental play beat the athleticism of UK, including at the end when Calipari was forced–because of UConn’s acquisition of free throw fundamentals — into a defensive strategy which enabled UConn to eat time off the clock, as Napier, and others, were running out of gas.

    Two other items! I like the way you used your playbook. Behavior does have consequences. On the one hand, you taught your players basketball skills and how to play basketball. On the other hand, you taught them an important life lesson, one which they could use to navigate through life successfully.

    As to your concern about players being paralyzed on court, I share that concern about paralysis relative to IU. Besides not having Will and Yogi around this past summer to lead the many new recruits, I wonder if they didn’t get paralyzed too. I wonder if Crean expected them to learn too many plays immediately. I understand the importance of that. But freshman face a lot of challenges in transitioning to college which go beyond the basketball court. So I wonder if our new recruits weren’t paralyzed by thinking too much, resulting often in playing too uptight, rather than with more abandonment and allowing the game to come to them too. Something to think about.

    Again, coachv, thanks for the info and your insights. I hope too you will still forward your suggestions to Crean.

  62. doesn’t look like crean runs plays very often. of course, it only takes one player not doing his assignment to ruin a play. iu actually ran an inbounds play mid-season where robinson inbounded the ball to the right wing. then howard faked a perimeter screen and instead rolled to the basket and was wide open on the cut. the problem was after robinson inbounded the ball he just stepped into the court and stood under the basket. his defender stole the pass to howard. I’m sure the play called for robinson to clear out after the inbound. there is the problem with freshmen.

  63. Lydiaf – that is clearly one of the best posts in the history of The Scoop. Keep your fantastic contributions coming. And whatever you do, no matter what anyone one here says, do not ever fact check.

  64. lydiaf, you forgot to mention that George McGinnis, the point guard on Crean’s first IU team was also a relatively unknown walk on. As was Isiah Thomas, a little used power forward from Paris (KY), and LeBron James, who quit the basketball team to concentrate on his first love, team handball.

    But, perhaps the most underrated walk on for the Hoosiers under Tom Crean was a player who started as student manager before showing in practice that he could contribute valuable minutes off the bench for those first couple teams despite having a prosthetic foot.

    Yes, I think we all know I’m talking about Lew Alcindor, who would later change his name to Malcolm X, but was best known for driving all the snakes from Cleveland. While the drive was unruly he managed to drive them all the way to South Carolina where he met his soul mate on the Appaclachian Trail near Buenos Aires.

    To add to Geoff’s remark, thanks not only for your valuable input to the Scoop but also for the contributions you made to the country as George Bush’s National Security Advisor when you made the world aware of the weapons of mass destruction in Iraq.

  65. Here’s fact:

    Oladipo, the No. 133 recruit in the nation according to Rivals.com, committed Monday to playing college basketball at IU. His commitment came after a night of prayer and time with his family.

    “God had pointed me toward Indiana,” he said. “He was giving me signs. I felt like that was where He wants me to go.”

    So in some sense lydiaf was right. Oladipo: clearly a walk-on.

  66. “Basketball is a far different game than football.”

    Thanks for that blinding glimpse at the obvious. And thanks for unintentionally supporting my argument.

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