40 comments

  1. Dustin- With your discussion of losing big targets on the outside(WR positions) possibly putting more demands on a run option from the QB position, I’m beginning to wonder if Tre was thinking of the punishment his body might take. Does IU have the sort of front line and blocking that could provide enough resistance to at least deflect many of the big time hits on a scrambling/option-style QB?

    Tre already had the nasty break to the ankle…With the absence of the optimal balanced threat to go deep to large receiving targets, I’m just wondering how much more demands on his running game and subsequent punishment to his body he was possibly envisioning. It’s one thing to be a dynamic running QB behind the size and speed of a Michigan or OSU front line(along with experienced and big tight ends that could clear out some space). But to put a running QB through those demands at IU and to have to put yourself out there on an island against the cream of the crop top defensive players and killer hitters that can be found in a OSU, Penn State, Wisconsin, Michigan middle and secondary?

    Maybe that sort of punishment just isn’t worth the sharing of the limelight.

  2. A coach may want the best of both worlds in his two QBs…That’s fine and dandy, but what QB is willing to possibly get his butt annihilated(primarily used for his occasional running threat)while not having the glory and the reins that comes with running the offense/team?

  3. It is what it is. Just move on, next man up… Best of luck Tre (not against IU.) From what I have heard you’re a fine young man.

  4. Best of luck Tre. I hope you find a good home.

    Now Nate doesn’t have to look over his shoulder all the time. I’m pleased with this news.

    Very thin at the QB position now though.

  5. I keep stressing to not count out the walk-ons. There is some real talent there. In alot of ways, walk-ons are hungrier than some scholarship guys and can also be more committed. All the QB’s leaving were on scholarship and chose not to hang in there at IU and fight for the spot. As a walk-on myself who became a starter, alot of my problem was poor high school grades and not knowing how to get recruited. Fortunately, I turned that around once I got to college. You got Budreau, Marencik, etc ….. those guys have talent …..seems to me they just need a true opportunity and this may be it. I think IU has plenty of depth in the QB spot.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-zcThiLuJjc

  6. Tippe, you may be right about the talent. However, they have never played a college down. Not saying they can’t step in and surprise us all though.

    When you go from having Sudfeld/Roberson with Coffman backing them up to walk-ons the position becomes a lot more fragile. In my opinion of course.

  7. a little preseason scoop talk with DA RAK!
    #lovingit
    #isthisreallife?
    #Hoosiers
    ##

  8. Harvard,
    Well, No. 1, Tre likes to run and he’s pretty good at slipping out of tackles. Two, he still wouldn’t be playing every snap. Three, Indiana’s offensive line is actually pretty good, especially if it’s healthy. It’s not Wisconsin’s, but the Hoosiers only allowed 18 sacks in 12 games last year, which was fifth in the league in fewest sacks allowed. It’s not a sieve anymore. Fourth, IU still has Tevin Coleman, so it’s not like they don’t have running backs to carry the load. It’s obviously possible that Roberson could get injured as evidenced by his sophomore year, but that wasn’t a wear-and-tear situation. It was one freak play. If he was that concerned about that happening again, he simply wouldn’t play football.

  9. Now we’ll see how Wilson handles this setback in the program. We don’t need to be chicken littles and believe the sky is falling.

    Sudfeld knows the offense intimately. The offensive line is solid. We have a good back in Coleman. The receivers are young, but that shouldn’t be too big of deal.

    If Sudfeld goes down then we can start to worry. Remember most of the things we worry about never comes to fruition.

  10. Juan…your points are well taken and I know I am a bit empathetic to the challenges of walk-ons. To me, they may be walk-ons to a new college football program but they have walked-off many a football field in their career and they know that experience of competition. Also, even a scholarship player has to take that first collegiate snap. Scholarship players just get the opportunity sooner. I’m not saying a walk-on should start a game right off to see how they do. I just hope IU gives those guys a fair chance to prove themselves in practice. In my experiences, walk-on QBs do alot of standing around and are there to help keep the receivers fresh and practiced. They don’t really get scrimmage time or even 7 on 7 time. I just hope IU doesn’t start flooding the QB’s position with a bunch of JUCO players thinking that that’s the solution. Give those walk-ons a chance to prove themselves in practice and that’s all they really can ask for. Their loyalty to the program should afford them that and maybe we all might get surprised. I’m sure we all know at least one of those “no-name player” success stories.

  11. Dustin-

    It’s not that Tre would be worried about getting injured..It’s the weighing of the risk against the lack of getting adequate spotlight. Don’t they all want to play at the next level? So why put your body out there when it’s not your team to lead? There really may be an argument that the Hoosiers most dynamic, multi-threat, QB should be given a bit more leeway in settling into a starting role. It’s all conjecture, but I highly doubt Roberson or Sudfeld were benefiting from another year of open debate on who is going to get the full confidence and be secure in the starting role. A QB is such a symbolic leadership position. You can’t ask a man to put his body out there, be the supreme athlete and accurate passer in waiting to be ready on the dime when called upon, and then assume he’ll be satisfied with the coin flip for who gets hoisted on the shoulders of a lineman in the locker room celebration after a big win.

    Who’s the starting QB for Scoop? Is it the dynamic, multi-skilled, talent that is in the ancillary role? I realize that Jeremy can drive the team downfield when called upon..He’s steady with an adequate arm…Graham can cork the occasional deep bomb. But who is in the center of the screen on ScoopTalks? Who can invent a move on the dime and keep a 10 minute talk alive? Dynamic threats must we awarded and given the ball or they will simply play elsewhere.

  12. And it’s easy to surmise from the comments that many contributors to Scoop felt it was a “blast” to watch Tre on the field. Do you believe that many of the thousands of fans outside of this forum possibly felt the same way?

    How does losing a player that is dynamite on the field and a blast to watch effect attendance and the level of enthusiasm from those covering the Hoosiers behind the microphones?

    You’re not just losing the singular talent. You’re losing possible attendance numbers via a highly unique element of the team that gets others(reporters/the opposition’s fans/national audiences)to elevate their level of interest and enthusiasm for your program.

    Losing a dynamic talent is a vicious hit to the overall marketing of the product. Maybe Tre wasn’t exactly a Denard Robinson, but he brought a boatload of excitement for a blossoming team. He brought anxiousness and anticipation. He brought people and commentators closer to the edges of their seats knowing he was lightning in a bottle and a highlight reel ready to happen.

    Losing Roberson is far from simple rationalizations a local reporter or the easy trivialization that happens in the immediate aftermath of heartbroken fans. We lost a chunk of marketing that can’t be replaced by a “Win Today” billboard.

  13. “Vicious” hit is a bit much. He’s a significant loss for Indiana for sure. I don’t think he’s going to individually, by himself cost Indiana thousands of fans per game. Nate Sudfeld is kinda good at football too. I might have mentioned that at some point.

  14. I’m aware you’ve mentioned it. I’ve also been recently made aware via a highly respected* contributor to Scoop(Aruss) that he believes you have mentioned a preference for one QB a few too many times with a bit of removed objectivity. I hope that lack of objectivity wasn’t filtering into locker rooms and swaying decisions by those in charge. You do have quite a bit more power in that regard than a “basement” blogger immersed in a sea of Mitch McGary posters. Do you think you were giving Tre enough HT press and fair representation/voice on LiveChats, etc. in full consideration his gifts on the field?

    * “highly respected”(and dearly missed when not on Scoop) according to Ben(another highly respected and model Scoop citizen).

  15. Right. Yeah, 1) no one on the team or in the administration cares that much about my opinion, particularly on personnel matters, and they shouldn’t. I’ve never coached football. 2) Aruss thinks I’m pro-Sudfeld because I pointed out that there was a quarterback competition when he didn’t think there should be one.

  16. Nearly impossible to tell how vicious a hit in the win/loss column. I do think it’s a big hit to the image, the fun factor, and the perception of leadership when everything appeared to be so hunky-dory.

    Was Tre given enough leeway last season to allow his talents to mesh into a comfort level emanating from the confidence from the sideline? Was it not his starting role to lose? Did he necessarily lose that designation outright or was it the playing the best of both worlds that left him questioning his future at Indiana? Did he feel his varied skills at the position were being wasted without that confidence?

  17. And can’t that sack stat be somewhat misleading? Does it mean our line is super great at protecting the QB or does some of that stat get padded because 1)Sudfeld had great targets and could get rid of a ball quicker as a result of receivers that could go up and catch an otherwise huge gamble throw, and 2)the multi-dimensional ability/mobility of Roberson to avoid sacks when he was taking snaps?

    Will we see the better-than-expected lower sack numbers without the best of both worlds and without the standout targets to aide a QB that can just quickly throw it up for grabs out of a shotgun formation? And are low completion numbers and higher rates for interceptions also possibly related to avoided/lower ratio of sacks?

    Simply avoiding sacks isn’t always a positive. Sometimes it’s better to eat the ball, take the sack, than to throw ill-advised. But for an offense that lives on gambles(partly because of a lack of confidence in the defense), you’ll probably see more risk-taking. Without a QB that can give you more options and gobble up some yards on broken plays or designed QB runs, will that downfield risk pay off as much?

  18. Kevin Wilson has created a successful offense everywhere he’s gone. Unlike fans’ obsession with scheme, Wilson has been such a dynamic offensive mind, he’s builds his scheme around the strength of his players. The loss hurts our depth and our inexperience at receiver this year is a question mark.

    I’m sure Kevin Wilson is glad that people are focusing in on offense. If I were a bettin’ man, barring a barrage of injuries, IU will still put up points next year. Sudfeld, Wynn and Coleman behind an experienced offensive line are nothing to sneeze at. The big question mark still resides on the defensive side of the ball.

    Tre or no Tre, I still think this team is going to be better and thus, a better team to watch next year. Fun Factor for me is winning football games. Fun Factor for me is not watching the other team’s players run for 400 yds, throw for 600 and dance around untouched setting B1G or school records as they yawn into the end zone all day on us. Knorr seems to be the right guy based on his past successes at shining turds he’s inherited…and he’s got one heaping, fermenting pile of one to shine for next fall.

  19. Harvard, are you just trying to be difficult? We allowed 18 sacks each of the last two years, with Cam, Tre, and Nate. That’s in the 30s nationally. We were really, really good in regards to sacks allowed by attempts %. We even had several OL injuries last year. They’re much bigger now. But hey, if they don’t pass the HFH look test…

  20. I wonder if Tre is heading to Ball State….?

    I remember a ton of spectacular catches from Hughes and Latimer…Not sure if the points will come as quickly and easily. And wasn’t Houston pretty talented? Now we take Roberson’s run dynamics out of the equation? I think we’ll be very challenged to put up the same kind of numbers on offense as last season.

    Fact remains that dynamic talent brings headlines and interest.

    But you do have to have the arm and the composure for the game. QB’s cannot live on athleticism alone. I think back to the days of Vince Evans on the Chicago Bears. I thought he was also a “blast” to watch…I don’t remember a lot of Bears victories that came along with the marvel of watching him breaking out of the pocket and running off 30 yards.

    Here’s to Sudfeld grabbing the gusto and making sound decisions. Isn’t really mostly about decision making and backbone under duress? It’s never just an equation based on talent or arm. What’s Russell Wilson without that defense? What’s Jay Cutler without Matt Forte? And why can’t Cutler have some backbone? He’ll make numerous spectacular throws and then just hand the game back to the opposition with some crazy pass totally ill-advised….Maybe he’ll never have a complete meltdown reminiscent of Rex Grossman in a Super Bowl, but it makes me realize it’s not always about your cannon arm/throwing capabilities or if you’re the next Michael Vick. …Poise + pocket protection + vision + right decision + sturdiness seems to often define the true greats at the QB position over the raw talent(whether that be legs/athleticism or arm).

  21. I’m just a novice when it comes to understanding all the dyanmics at play here, but does a hurry-up offense also help in limiting sacks? Remember how Marino would take two steps and pop that lightning rod spiral off his wrist in a a split second after the snap to a cutting Clayton across the middle…? How on earth do you get a sack on that kind of timing and precision?

    Hurry-up could quickly turn into hurry-up and punt without fantastic receivers. Granted, there will still be very few sacks.

  22. I’ve come to the sad realization that Dustin, Double Down, Podunker, Ben, Clarion, Husky Tom, Punjab will never tell me “that was a great post.”

    It’s truly hard out here for a pimp.

  23. Tsao-

    Grab the ‘Cream de la Anointment’ and build me up…I need the love of a caring soul that lets me know I’m worthy of a “great post” compliment. It’s all about the man love here, right?..Not that there’s anything wrong in that, said Mitch McGary.

  24. Isn’t Popovich from Norhtwest Indiana? Much like the days of Knight, it’s nice to see a great mind for the game shine on the basketball stage again. Spoelstra and Crean…? Adequate comparison? Salivate over talent and motivate by way of heavy layers of slathering praise and motivational talks?

    Who wins tonight? Do the Spurs nearly put the final nail in the coffin or does LeBron go off for forty?

  25. “Simply avoiding sacks isn’t always a positive.”

    Sorry, no winners today in identifying the hidden sentence in a post that was once a ‘Kilroy’s pickup line’ attempted by Dustin(“sacks” sounds a bit like “sex”). Carry on…Be sure to play on the next thread.

  26. H4H, When you write a good post I acknowledge it as such. But your history proves you favor quantity not quality.

  27. If Tre did not want to play and compete at IU….not a good deal both ways. He continued to grow while at IU. I do not think he is a star QB unless he steps down from a major conference, but is capable….He was in a very good place for him and I do not see him doing that good unless maybe he goes small college route. I wish him well, but where has he been getting his advice? Many solid major conference programs have 2 quality QBs and one is waiting as # 2 when wanted or needed. Sometimes as have Tre and Nate have been doing you just stay and continue to compete. (if Tre was going to be sophomore I might agree with transfer, but not now). If he can not beat out Nate at QB position at IU then where is he going to beat out a quality QB at any major program unless he steps down to small college levels of competition? For every Russell Wilson type success stories (and he had current era Wisconsin team around him+better QB)look how many transfers end up very average or even fizzle out.

  28. I have a doctorate in Gobbledygook.

    #words are pretty
    #dot dot dot
    #bong itch
    #Chesterton

  29. At this point, IU is not a “next man up” program, though we’re certainly one heck of a lot closer to that than we were five years ago! So, Tre’s loss coupled with losing several fine receivers has an impact. That said, I think the offense will still be quite productive under Nate with a stronger Oline and an improved running game. Of course, all this depends on folks staying healthy.

    As others have noted, success in 2014 will depend on how much our defense can improve. There just isn’t any way around that. If we can get some stops and learn to take the ball away, we go to a bowl. If not, we stay home. It’s really that simple.

  30. t, if Tre stayed at IU, he’d most likely continue to platoon with Sudfeld. If he believes he has can play at the next level, he must have felt that he needed to go some place where he could be the full-time starter for two years. He knows that to have any kind of chance at being drafted, he needs the game experience and exposure that can only be obtained as a full-time starter. He’s transferring to IL State, which will allow him to play for two more seasons. Given that that conference has produced at least two notable NFL QBs (Tony Romo and the kid just drafted by New England), it may turn out to be a good decision on Tre’s part. If he believes he’s good enough to play in the NFL, and that’s what he really wants to do, he had to make this move in order to give himself a chance. If Sudfeld was going into his senior year, Tre probably would have stayed at IU. He may never get drafted, but I can respect him for pursuing his goal.

  31. H4H- re: your post #23. Doesn’t “hurry up offense” refer to the tempo between snaps rather than the QB’s release? More snaps should mean more opportunities for sacks, not fewer.

    And about “sacks” in general: If a QB starts out looking to pass and takes off on the run w/out being under serious pressure, or it looks like he’s looking to pass but never really intended to pass and but runs instead, or the play is designed to look like a pass but is actually a run and the QB sells it really well, but said QB is tackled for a loss, is that a sack? I wonder if sacks are counted differently (even if only subconsciously) against drop back guys like Sud as opposed to guys like Tre, Antwaan, or RG III?

  32. But with an up-tempo(moving quickly to the new line of scrimmage and going no-huddle), doesn’t it make it difficult for defenses to get ideally set? Doesn’t it disturb their timing and create confusion?

    The bang-bang(the two step pop from Marino to Clayton)where the QB gets rid of the ball quickly is another form of up-tempo that doesn’t necessarily rely on no-huddle or fast downfield movement between the snaps. I honestly can’t remember if the Dolphins used no-huddle back in Marino’s day. I simply remember the speed and precision and how little time Marino needed to set up and find his speed, cutting receivers.

    No-huddle(tiring a less set opponents defense and limiting sideline substitutions)…quick snap and quick counts(e.g. precision plays), quick sideline screens, and the shotgun formation can all aide in minimizing pressure on the QB.

    Keeping a defense on its heals requires great athletes and conditioning on the offensive side of the ball. I tend to think it’s a big part of Wilson’s success. It takes discipline and preparedness. It can help buffer the size discrepancies and the need to overpower a team based on sheer beef of your men up front. Quickness and conditioning are more the key controlling factors as you attempt to dictate pace and wear down a defense by limiting their breathers and substitutions.

  33. I’m pretty sure that a sack is not recorded if the QB is in an obvious designed run play and is tackled outside of the pocket behind the line of scrimmage. If he’s dropped back and is flushed out by the pressure, then it’s likely recorded as a sack.

    Maybe Dustin could clarify. I’m not positive if it’s sometimes a judgment call or if there’s any differences in interpretation between pros and college football.

  34. H4H- good points about the other aspects of “hurry up.” Re: post #39, agreed if the QB is “obvious” and “flushed out.” I guess we’d agree that some sacks are indeed judgment calls.

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