Louisville strikes final blow in 94-74 win over Indiana

NEW YORK — They pushed back and forth, from end to end, at the site of so many ticker-tape heavyweight fights, trading blows like prizefighters and waiting for the other to fall.

But Indiana could only stand so many punches on this night at Madison Square Garden.

Once the 3-pointers stopped falling and the turnovers became too much to overcome, the Hoosiers wilted late and fell to Louisville, 94-74, in the Jimmy V Classic.

Cardinals guard Terry Rozier led all scorers with 26 points, while Louisville star Montrezl Harrell added 21 points, dunking over Hoosiers almost at will, while breaking the Cardinals career dunks record in the process. The Hoosiers had no answer for the All-American forward even with one of — if not the — best night to date for Hanner Mosquera-Perea.

James Blackmon Jr. led Indiana (7-2) with 18 points, while Yogi Ferrell added 13 points and finished among four Hoosiers to score in double figures. Mosquera-Perea and Troy Williams each scored 10 points. IU returns home for a Saturday meeting with Grand Canyon at 5:30 at Assembly Hall.

The Hoosiers shot 47 percent (29-of-61) from the field, including 40 percent from 3-point range for the night. They had seven first-half 3s to keep them close, but went only 1-for-10 from long range in the second half.

“We never moved the ball the way we wanted to against them,” IU coach Tom Crean said. “It’s a matter of attacking, especially when you get across the court. We wanted to get the game moving. … We never reversed the ball enough.”

The teams moved at a frenetic pace for much of the evening, trading baskets and big plays early. It was perhaps too fast at times for Indiana against the vaunted pressure and length of Louisville. The Hoosiers tied a season high with 19 turnovers and were outrebounded, 52-34, with Louisville grabbing 64 boards on the offensive glass.

“We had to be in the game at a high level on the glass, and we weren’t,” Crean said. “A lot of it was them, and some of it was us not being nearly as good as we need to be at making contact. You can’t have frontline rebounding like that, especially when we’re not blocking out.”

After a 3-pointer from Max Hoetzel cut the Cardinals’ lead to 30-29 at the 8:25 mark of the first half, Louisville tried to pull away with a 14-2 run over a four-minute stretch late in the first half. And despite 13 turnovers through the first 20 minutes, the Hoosiers trailed only 46-41 at halftime after closing the half on a 10-2 run built on back-to-back 3-pointers from Nick Zeisloft and three points from Blackmon.

Mosquera-Perea authored arguably the finest stretch of his Indiana career over the game’s first 6:30 minutes, scoring four of IU’s first six points to help build the Hoosiers’ largest lead of the first half at three points. The junior forward posted all eight of his first-half points over the inital 5:43 of the game, including a violent one-handed slam over 6-foot-10 Louisville center Chinanu Onuaku. Mosquera-Perea also drew two early charges against Harrell and finished with four rebounds.

“That was a very confident guy playing that way tonight,” Crean said. “Look at the charges he’s drawn. He’s got the toughness level, he’s just got to bring it the rebounding.”

Mosquera-Perea made a pretty move on a 10 footer for the second half’s first points, followed by back-to-back buckets from Blackmon that gave Indiana a 47-46 advantage — its first lead since the first three minutes of the game. IU led by as many as four points after a Troy Williams layup three minutes into the second half.

But that’s when Louisville rattled off a 17-6 run that buried the Hoosiers.

“They wanted to get up and down,” Louisville coach Rick Pitino said. “We wanted to get up and down.”

And the Cardinals earned the final punch.


  1. Troy could be really good but he is so into himself he stinks!! At this rate he will never learn to be a team player and consequently he will not play in the NBA unless he wakes up. You think he is dense or just uncoachable?

  2. simply one of the worst defensive coaching performances I’ve ever witnessed. I was pulling my hair out the entire night. No matter which team Pitino was coaching he would have won by 20. UL is so limited offensively, but we gave them everything. We took away nothing. HERES A KING PLAN – take away 1 thing. I don’t care what it is. Pick something – preferably something they do well… or maybe their best player – but SOMETHING. Instead they pretended like Harrell didn’t exist, and ran out of control at lousy 3 point shooters, and got themselves continually out of good help side and rebounding position. Just the worst defensive scheme against a truly limited team I’ve ever seen.

    Also, why are you continually playing Stan after he proved he was up to the moment?

    It would take a middle school girls coach to screw this team up offensively. Allowing them to play this undisciplined on defense is unacceptable. It’s a fire-able offense.

    You had a chance to win this game and instead you embarrassed yourself Crean.

  3. Geoff–
    Seriously? I hope you reread this tomorrow and say to yourself “what was I thinking?”

    Louisville is a great team. Great defensive team, great rebounding team. Their offense came from defense and offensive rebounding.

    We had a nice game plan. Some players failed to execute it as well as we’d like. We are limited in some of our abilities. But we hung in close for much of the game. Pretty clear to me that Crean coached a decent game, but also that he coached this team for the long term.

    You say: “You had a chance to win this game and instead you embarrassed yourself Crean.”

    I will take the words of a hall of fame coach over your rant. “IU looks like an NCAA team.” We have some good pieces. They are starting to play better D. Our offense is good. Like pretty much every other team in the NCAA, we are going to lose to Louisville this year.

  4. Nope, not gonna happen. We are SUPER talented. Yogi is as good as any college guard in the country. We have shooters all over the place. We have 2 serviceable and athletic big men. We can play with anyone at any time. Youth is not an excuse anymore in the college game. It is a fact everyone deals with – the rule, not the exception.

    We had a terrible defensive gameplan. Either that or we executed terribly on a mediocre gameplan. I don’t have an issue with our offense. Our offense is, of course, NCAA tournament-worthy. It’s easy for anyone to look at our team and say we’re a tournament team. WE ARE.

    But what we AREN’T is a team that is ready to beat really good teams, DESPITE having an equal, or better, talent base.

    There’s a reason they got so many offensive rebounds… It’s partially because they are bigger, but it’s mostly because we made TERRIBLE defensive decisions and ran out of control at a poor perimeter shooting team. That put us 1 man down in rebounding situations (at best) and more often we helped, which led to more help, off of Harrell (et al), and gave up easy buckets and/or offensive rebounds.

    I’m sorry you can’t see it Spanky, but it was simply brutal/awful/terrible/horrible/pick-your-adjective.

  5. Geoff, you must be kidding us. No way IU wins this game with the likes of Haner guarding the paint. The guy had – what – something like 3 rebounds, and is incapable of shouldering the defensive load he has been asked to carry. Louisville annihilated IU on the boards, which everyone knows is Indiana’s biggest problem. The Hoosiers will have to play almost flawlessly against most teams to overcome this disadvantage, especially one with talent similar to UL. It just didn’t happen in this game, and I’m not sure why anyone like yourself honestly expected a different result.

  6. This team played much better and with more chemistry when Williams and Robinson were serving out their suspensions…..Williams has flashes but when he’s bringing the ball down court, it’s hold your breath time….A lot of athleticism, but absolutely no understanding of momentum and patience…

    Holt plays far more under control. Davis would have helped us inside. Hartman and Hoetzel simply didn’t look like they belonged. I expected more out of Hartman…Zeisloft was one of the few that didn’t appear to act like the moment and stage was too big.

    Way too much forcing it into the middle…Blocked shot after blocked shot after blocked shot…How many times does it take to learn that one guard….or Williams pretending to be a guard is not working. And when a guard goes flying at the glass, you’ve already got one player clearly out of position to rebound a ball or keep a possession alive….

    Final Thoughts on playing at the Garden: It’s pretty simple what’s going on with bringing more college basketball to the Garden…The Knicks are beyond stinking horrible….Knicks fans are starting to wear paper bags over their heads(a la Saints of the Archie Manning days)….It’s one ugly pro basketball team…Yet, you don’t hear a lot of talk about just how embarrassing that lowly pro team has become for such a place called the “mecca” of basketball.. Some major cities are really struggling with pro sports teams of late….I wonder if fighting for these college tournaments and hyped match-ups is to offset the hit to their once flourishing sports economies…

    I’m finally realizing that it’s going to be a long, long time before Hoosier Basketball can be right again….It’s painful to watch teams like Louisville and UK have so much more ….talent, depth, and coaching. We may never win another banner. We were manhandled tonight…..We played very sloppy basketball….Sloppy basketball should send some clues to those in charge. No chemistry…Always wholesale substitutions…Horrible focus. They stick a microphone in Crean’s mouth before he goes into the halftime locker room….He say’s all the right things…But what he says never translates into watching a team that executes…Always confused faces looking at each other. We look like playground basketball….And playground basketball won’t do it with the kids Crean is recruiting.. We’re playing to their strengths without the bodies and horses to get into that sorta street fight..

  7. Time to take a break for awhile, folks…I’ve been getting on far too many nerves….I see some vicious attacks that Jeremy let’s slide…I do understand….I have some rather outdated opinions and I don’t like how are prestige is being transferred and slipping away….So, please forgive me for being such an old-fashioned lunatic….But, within that delusion, I’m not a mean person at heart…

    Take care all.

  8. [our] prestige…

    Ben, 15 Miles North…..Punjab. You guys kept your dignity. I did not.

  9. Geoff is right the defense is not focusing on stopping something the other team does well. It should be a focal point to take something away they do best. Let their shooters shoot but slowing down Jones and blocking out Harrell should have been central in a good defensive game plan. HP is maturing before our very eyes and not just the 2 surprising hook shots. How about with all the times last night he had the ball in his hands and only 1 turnover in 20 minutes. Robinson on the other hand played 9 minutes and had 5 turnovers. He and Troy hurt this team more than any other players and Crean may not have the necessary coaching skills to make corrections in their play to garner much improvement. Because of his quickness TW should have helped much more in blocking out Harrell. Hell he only had 1 board anyway. The 3rd player holding back success is JBJ. He needs to use his offensive skills for more than 3’s and the occasional drive to the hoop. He has every skill necessary to drive, pull up and offer that beautiful jump shot. Success with that would make him even more confident when shooting a 3. I am surprised his Dad has not pushed him into more of those shots. I too like Geoff thought we had them in our sights. Coach Crean wears responsibility for this 1.

    By the way is there an IT man in the house who can fix the problem only Geoff and I appear to have with posting.

  10. I enjoyed post #6…really agree with this. It is a matter of positioning on rebounding the ball and playing hard defense, simple things…fundamental basketball. I also enjoyed post #8, last paragraph is fantastic! Post #12, agree Robinson played too much last night. My issue now isn’t wacky rotation and substitution, it is simply noticing who is in over their head and/or not playing well…get them out of the game and do it quickly…figure out what 5 or 6 players are clicking!!!

    Harvard, the passion you show in your last paragraph of post #8 is how I felt. It does hurt to watch others play so well and have so much talent. We are Indiana, we should expect more! I talk about this with dad who is sick again by the way…things changed first when a team built to go all the way lost, sorry…got beaten down by Syracuse. I have loved Crean but he was exposed that night. Next, after the way he used Vonleh and after Vonleh made the comments to the media…big men flat out won’t play here, Crean is having trouble recruiting big men.

    I am not throwing in the towel, these guys play more like a team than last year and I am not giving up on Crean but something has to give…I am so frustrated right now! I don’t know what to think?!

  11. I think Hanner and Holt had a serviceable enough games to potentially beat a team like Louisville, and it would be interesting to see how Devin Davis would of changed the game. Troy and Stan remind me of Watford’s first 2 years when he really didn’t by into the system. Troy hasn’t improved in my opinion and Stan is one dimensional. Louisville was awful at the line and Indiana missed some key free thows to make the game closer.

    The defensive purpose couldn’t be identified. Geoff is on the money with that. Crean still can create a play to inbound the ball which boggles my brain. On a good night iu has maybe 6 guys on the roster that can hang with a louisville caliber team. Once the press wore them down we brought in the “B” team…and that’s when it started to slip away.

    Did I think IU would get beat by 20?
    Absolutely. With our inferior interior and lack of experience or deep quality talent there was no doubt. I will say this…the Hoosiers hung tough for 75% of the game against an excellent experienced squad. Had iu made a few more shots that they are capable of making…and minus the junk time it was really more like a 10 point loss which is somewhat of a victory.

  12. Oregoniu, I agree. I could NOT believe that Troy Williams was driving to the basket out -of-control while the other 4 players were setting up positionally. Their body language was “WTF are you thinking???” Emmet holt is going to play his way past this atheletic NON basketball player. Troy should transfer to the track team and do the high jumnp. Too many weak side defense lapses,TOO MANY (as last year) turnovers. I do think that Robert Johnson and JBJ saw what NBA guards are and that 1 and done wont work for them …JBJ needs much more defense developement.Hoetzel just needs to grow into his body. Hanner disappears too often. He started the game like gang busters then disappered when Louisville got physical with him. Hanner has the mentality of a 3 and a body of a 5 but perseverance of a benchwarmer. I think Stan transfers after season perhaps Troy also. IM not convinced Crean KNOWS what he needs to fill out this team OR what identity this or any team he coaches should have. he talks “toughness” but that lack of toughness has been there since Victor and Cody left. He doesnt seem to be able to INSTILL mental or physical toughness in the teams he coaches.

  13. Honestly Im not sure what the Hoosiers do in practice. Play HORSE? Around the world? They definitely don’t work on defense or blocking out. I’m not sure why some people defend Crean. It blows my mind that some still think he is a good coach. I don’t think he could get past the sweet 16 if all of his players stayed for 4 years.

  14. Indiana shoots the ball well. We knew that going in to the game. We also knew Indiana’s shortcomings. Both aspects of this team were amplified against Louisville. The bottom line is Indiana’s inside game is so weak, that they cannot match up against the best teams in the country on a regular basis. There may be that rare game when they shoot lights-out for an entire game and win one against a top team, but that is hard to replicate for a season. HMP played his best game offensively but he is a defensive liability. He has no instincts or needed determination to be a great rebounder. Yogi and Johnson typically get more rebounds than he does. Hartman is a role player and does a nice job but he is not a strong rebounder. Williams has not progressed. He is athletic but is a mediocre shooter and a terrible passer and ball handler . He should at least be rebounding. Robinson is an even worse ball handler. He is lost as a shooter. Why is he being used as a point guard? Holt is a promising player but he is not a power forward/center yet because of limited options, he is asked to fill that role . Nevertheless, he was a good find who will get better. Johnson is a solid all-around player who will be a star in the future. This team will go as far as their 3 point shooting takes them. Nick, James and Yogi can fill it up. What a shame Crean could not recruit talented big men for this year’a team. With a player like Vonleah, they would be a top 10 team. At least more fun to watch then last year’s team.

  15. Chaz (and anyone else who isn’t feeling me) – Here’s the deal… You are right. We cannot win a game like that “with the likes of Hanner guarding the paint.” You are 100% correct. There is zero debating that point.

    So does that mean that you just concede? Do you just go through the motions and play the game and hope that the other team plays their worst game of the year?

    Or do you try to come up with a game plan that takes away their strengths and covers up your weaknesses?

    IU Weakness #1: Interior defense and depth.

    Gameplan: Play zone almost exclusively. Do not put your interior defenders in 1-on-1 situations where they’ll either give up buckets or get in foul trouble. Do not extend your perimeter defenders beyond the 3-point line. Force them to beat you from the perimeter. At all costs deny post-up opportunities and driving lanes… even if it means giving up 50 open 3’s. Guards are responsible for immediately doubling any post touch. You are not allowed to get beat off the dribble. That will create help situations and get us out of position on the back line and for defensive rebounding.

    IU Weakness #2: Defensive rebounding.

    Gameplan: Because you have to rely on a zone to protect our interior defenders, you have to be disciplined in your perimeter defense. You cannot allow yourself to get beat, whether it’s off the dribble or by flying at jump shooter – especially a 3 point shooter. We need to always be conscious of playing defense from inside-out, and then gang rebounding. Hanner or Holt, which ever is in the game, is solely responsible for spying Harrell. He is not allowed to get an offensive rebound. Your responsibility is to know where he is at all times and limit his effectiveness to transition and FT-area jumpers.

    UL Strength #1: Harrell.

    Gameplan: Everything above. We cannot allow him to get clean 1-on-1 opportunities around the paint. Limit his touches to FT area against the zone. Dig immediately and make sure he cannot drive from there. What ever big is in the game is 100% responsible for knowing where he is at all times and be between him and the basket. Find him and put a body on him every time a shot goes up. If he drifts to the perimeter because he’s frustrated and wants touches that is a win for us! Do not help if a guard gets penetration. That is your teammates fault. Our guards are not allowed to beat off the dribble. If they do then I’ll hold them accountable. YOU (Hanner/Holt) are not allowed to compound the issue by leaving Harrell alone near the basket. Not only will you be giving him easy looks but you’ll be putting us in a compromised rebounding position. Help on dibble drives should be coming from other guards because we are helping off shooters and giving that up.

    UL Weakness #1: Perimeter shooting.

    Gameplan: Make them beat you from the outside. We are going to sell out on this. We know they are much bigger than us. If we play them straight up I don’t think we have the size to stay with them for 40 minutes. But they haven’t shot the ball well to this point. We are going to sell out on packing the paint, not allowing Harrell and the other bigs to beat us, and not allowing dribble penetration. If one of their guys gets a hot hand, then maybe we make an adjustment to limit his shots, but none of their guards or wings have shot it well this year and we are going to capitalize on that. NO penetration. NO post-ups. If they get a touch in the paint all of our guards are immediately collapsing and forcing them to hurry a shot, kick it out, or turn it over. We are going to rebound with all 5 guys. Because of this we cannot run at shooters. We WANT them to shoot. We are going to take our chances that a sub-30% 3-pt shooting team is going to beat us with 3’s. We know that their success has come from turning defense into offense, dominating in the paint, guards beating people off the dribble, and offensive rebounding. We are going to do everything we can defensively to eliminate the last 3 things.

    What Happened: we took away nothing. we continually made poor defensive decisions, which tells me that we did not have a cohesive defensive gameplan. We gave up 3’s, we gave up penetration, we gave up the paint, and we certainly allowed them to run roughshod on the offensive boards.

    I can live with getting beat by a better team if it looks like we tried to make them do things they aren’t comfortable doing, and they adjusted and played well. I can live with getting out-rebounded if I see us making a concerted effort to rebound with all 5 guys, to not consistently be out of rebounding position, and to always be aware of where the other teams most dangerous rebounders are. But we did the opposite of that, so I cannot give them a pass and just let it go.

    We didn’t get out-coached. Pitino didn’t have to do anything to beat us except roll his boys out there and say, “do what we do.”

    We got under-coached because Crean couldn’t come up with a gameplan, or instill it well enough, to make them beat us with their weaknesses. He said the same thing to UL that Pitino did – “hey boys. do what you do.”

  16. I’m not really satisfied with hanging with louisville for 75% of the game.Had Fischer, Vonleh, lyles, or Zeller been on this team it more than likely would of closed the 20 point gap through offense and defense collectively. Out of 6 seasons with Crean we have had 2 decent ones. Both had Cody Zeller on them. Zeller even allowed for Oladipo to improve. Picture the 2 decent seasons with Zeller replacing him with pritchard…..I assure you the results would be very different.

    We need a top caliber coach. A guy who walks in the door with his regime and in 2 recruiting classes makes you a perennial top 15 program….because that’s all it takes…and that’s what hoosier fans deserve.

  17. There is really not anything much to talk about other than liking to hear ourselves talk. IU BB is what it is. Hogwash, to top 15. Top 1 seldom, top 5 occasionally, top 10 frequently, and top 15 to 25 rebuild.

    5 star big man accompanied with high 4 star big forward wanted/needed….Or IU will struggle to play 500 ball in big ten.

  18. geoff,

    mostly agree with your defensive plan except you left out one important point. more max hoetzel.

  19. The bottom line is a team doesn’t get better playing teams like Grand Canyon. To improve, you have to play good competition. Louisville is a better team right now, IU doesn’t have the same talent and experience. This drubbing will payoff down the road for the Hoosiers.

  20. In addition to what IU has now. If they are full, then 2 of your weakest players go and (5 star 90 and above) plus high 4 star 87 and above). Since this is not going to happen because next year IU has an 80 (low 4 star) and a 78 high 3 star recruit coming in, IU will struggle. If you look at Louisville last night and the best teams in the country IU just does not match up with physically big talented players on those teams. The smaller IU team will continually get beat on and get out manned physically as a game goes on which will take its toll physically as season goes on. IU will look good at times with their speed, quikness, and 3 point shooting, plus driving at times, but it is all a tease. To be competitive at level of competition they should want to play requires at least an honorable mention All American potential type player that is 6’8″ or above and all American potential 6’9,” 6’10,” 6’11″or above physical type player. Notice I did not say they had to be first, second, or third team or honorable mention. However, they should have that kind of potential and be in the conversation from time to time. Before you say Zeller, that is one. This should be a staple in IU BB diet.

  21. Some of you write as if you expected IU to win the game last night! Were you serious? All things considered, this IU team did better than I expected for longer than I expected. They unraveled with about six minutes left in the game, as young players tend to do, and allowed the margin to expand. Louisville has a much stronger program right now, for all the reasons we’ve discussed on many previous occasions. No way was IU going to pull the upset last night. Let’s hope our young players learn a lot from last night’s experience and apply it when it counts, during the upcoming Big Ten season.

    Here’s a news flash for some of you. IU can’t beat Duke, UNC, Kentucky, Arizona or Wisconsin right now, either. But it could be worse, just look at Michigan’s performance so far this year.

  22. for the 50th time… please stop with the scheduling complaints… it has nothing to do with anything. Scheduling happens a couple years in advance and you don’t really know which low/mid-majors are going to be good or bad when you schedule them. Every BCS school, every top 25 team, every elite program schedules games against teams like Grand Canyon. Our non-con includes SMU, Pitt, UL, Butler, and Georgetown. UL’s non-con includes Jacksonville St, Savannah St, Cal St – Northridge, Florida Int’l, UNC – Wilmington… Who are they trying to prepare for? You know who else plays Grand Canyon? Kentucky…

    It’s a pointless and ridiculous complaint… It’s always been this way and it always will be. Not just for IU, but for every program in america.

  23. Po – clearly UL is the better team. That’s not the point. Even when the game was close we were playing horribly on the defensive end. Offense isn’t the problem and it’s what kept us in the game… But defensively, even with the current roster and experience, we could have played significantly better.

    You simply cannot allow a good team to do what they do well and expect to beat them. We did nothing to limit their strengths.

  24. t – in regards to post #24, that is a philosophy, but certainly not a fact. For instance, UL had zero 5 star bigs on their roster last night. Harrell was a 4 star and 18th ranked PF when he was recruited. All their other bigs were lower rated than Hanner as recruits. Uconn has won a couple NC’s in the last few years with zero highly ranked bigs, and off the strength of great guard play.

    While I don’t disagree with your premise or philosophy, I certainly believe that with more competent coaching you can win consistently and beat anyone with a roster similar to the one IU now has.

  25. Geoff you and I must just look at these competitions from different perches than most of the others. What is befalling you also happens to me after a FB game. I liked our prospects last night but not our game plan for slowing them down underneath.

    Does anybody care about the posting problems as to reestablishing name and email each time? In the old days I would be blaming it on to frequent smoke breaks.

  26. Po – how come Kentucky’s youth didn’t wilt in the last 6 minutes against Texas? They play 8 freshman and sophomore significant minutes… Why didn’t Duke’s youth unravel against a very good and more mature Wisconsin team? They start 3 freshman… that’s more than IU starts.

  27. Geoff, I’m not complaing, just stating the facts. You improve by playing better competition.

    And sometimes the other team is not good enough to limit the strengths of their opponent.

  28. What I hope IU players and CTC take-a-way from last night is how hard it is to beat a team that puts at least 60%+ of their energy into playing defense. Right now I would guesstimate about 70% of IU’s energy is expanded in seeing how fast they can move their offense. Someone in an earlier post asked the question what is the Hoosier identity CTC is trying to instill. CTC has always said he wanted to bring the other team to ‘fatigue’ and for IU to be able to play through that ‘fatigue’, therefore justification for CTC’s ‘hockey line’ approach to substitution and warp speed, transition offense (which is usually predicated on the ability to rebound). It didn’t work last night because U of L brought fatigue to IU through defensive effort. So all of that running, quick and careless offensive effort was more than negated by U of L’s defensive pace of the game. Therefore IMHO this team would play both better defense and offense if CTC forget about the transition baskets (which are hard to come by if you don’t rebound) slow the pace of the game down a bit and take care of the ball. Will that happing under CTC, probably not.

  29. Geoff,

    UK’s team didnt wilt against Texas because a lot of those kids played through the tournament last year only to lose in the final game. Being that close makes you hungry and it brings a team together. Also, they have 2 teams of which both have way more talent than IU. They wear you down. Their offense hasnt even been that great this year. Pretty scary, if they get that ramped up.

  30. Put it this way. Since Zeller, regarding centers and bigger forwards IU has not gotten their first priority/choice one time. They may have been in the running at first or for a period of time but they have had to go to option 2 or even 3. The recruits IU really wanted went elsewhere. Then IU beat out a mid major or lessor program to get what they got. So IU becomes just average and pretty irrelevant in national college bb landscape and even big ten.

  31. Our coach is a sales guy. He’s always selling. Every time he opens his mouth. He talks talent into coming to IU. Yeah for that. But he’s not an Xs & Os guy, at all. Apparently neither are the assistants. Who has a “game plan” that is basically stated as passing the ball to open shooters? Geez, isn’t that provocative???

    Every coach IU plays will know we can shoot the 3 so we’ll face consistent 3-2 zones all year & we’ll either hit 12 3s or 6 3s and take 30. And we’ll have 18 TOs & get out rebounded. When we chuck 3s all night you get outrebounded.

    There is no discipline and the plan is push the ball as fast as possible and kick it to an open 3 pt shooter. I believe the “no discipline” is solidly in place as evidenced by off the court issues.

    As a result, we have a Ho-hum year ahead, likely 13 losses or more, and maybe the NIT. Oh what fun it is…..we are what we are. We will beat some teams we shouldn’t by ripping the nets off the iron some nights, and we’ll lay another dozen eggs.

    Our recruits are just as talented as anyone else’s. Our kids leave just as much as those at Duke, KU, UK, OSU, etc…. And we are mediocre. Get used to it. Crean is Crean, his philosophies are very clear and consistent after 7 yrs., and the die is cast.

    End result….reduced fan passion & bad basketball built on run & gun. It’s no fun anymore.

  32. I lied…Oh, the temptations…Oh, how they do get the best of me. Unannounced is really more my style.

    Kelvin Sampson’s team played with more focus and mental toughness…They, at least, appeared to understand their roles while executing some sort of “gameplan.” They were far more fun to watch…There rarely appeared to be power struggles. There appeared to be someone employed and empowered to orchestrate while such implicitly identified leader was on the floor..And, maybe most importantly, they valued the basketball and each teammate’s back…

    All this continual talk of how exceptional Crean’s recruits are in the classroom…It’s really quite baffling to me. If Troy Williams acted in the classroom and studies with the same lack of discipline that he continually displays on the floor, he’d be graduating from 5th grade…His basketball athleticism is to sport as Ivy League is to academics…His basketball maturity and commitment to classroom (“team” being the classroom) is barely out of elementary school. It’s even lower for Stan Robinson..Stan Robinson’s basketball maturity is still nursing on a basketball nipple.

    Yes, their games will progress…Oladipo’s game progressed marvelously. But when there are too many children that just want to play, and there is no real teacher to make the classroom(team designs)interesting beyond their own individual skill sets, watching Hoosier basketball under Crean is pretty much akin to watching toddlers without guidance at a daycare center…Confused…pouting…primarily individual acts…dribbling balls….easily distracted….temperamental…power struggles…very rudimentary socialization…quiet time when they all go to sleep from the stress of it all…lack of listening….no real love from the trained daycare sitter other than the love for their adorable NBA smiles….lots of cute nicknames with Biblical reference from the god-loving parents that dropped them off to mature at their own pace…..Next week one will mysteriously drop out of the Crean daycare center to be sent off to Daycare LeBron….This is known as an NBA(No Bathroom Attachments) daycare facility where huge financial rewards are paid for playing the same playpen ball…The only main difference? Diaper-dandies are a no-no!! You must dunk the ball in the hoop without leaving in the Draft Night Pampers any signs you ain’t got game…After going to Daycare LeBron to be paid big hugs for “oopsless” dunks, the other toddlers will now scramble for the “special” ball(labeled “official” ball of the NBA daycare) that used to be exclusively kept in a closet for the special child that went off to Daycare LeBron…Within one week, the other toddlers will not remember the face of this ball hog…. The teacher with her selectively recruited daycare recruits, now rolls the special ball to the center again ..Coaching has begun as Daycare Master Crean returns to her office with the glass window and watches her collage(not to be confused with college) of a toddler team unfold…..

  33. Geoff,

    Give me your opinion of last nights game if Ficsher hadn’t left the program. Difference maker or not really? Did you ever think he could’ve been our answer for a post player? Just curious.

  34. Fischer would have been really good for program with another better bigger more physical forward or center with him. Yes the whole coaching staff lacks and team is not disciplined. No IU is not getting its share of big men recruits. That and lack of no nonsense coaching is going to cause a struggling IU bb program with no end in sight m

  35. How about Fischer(sophomore), with Vonleh(sophomore) with Zeller(senior)…?

    Zeller took the NBA by storm …Starting his 3rd season and still struggling to climb into double figures? He was ready for the cash…He wasn’t ready for the talent at his position that is mountains above his overrated draft night expectations.. $$$$ > Banners.

    Is Vonleh even playing?

    But, unlike UK, we don’t have “reinforcements”….We will never sniff deep tournament runs with flash-in-the-pans surrounded by mostly immature basketball IQ’s and NBA-wannabees that find Crean’s basketball classroom the same uninspiring and erratic toddler daycare center they’ve always known.

    The $$$$ of the NBA is beyond enticing….? What is their to barely fight against such tide? I would imagine the only thing is a true belief in the heart that your college coach has the ability to get you invested in a classroom on hardwood that could lead to the ultimate one shining moment cutting down the final nets in early April.. Vonleh pretty much expressed that it was not his belief such a classroom existed at Indiana…..The motivation to stay in college at the risk of injury is a hard enough sell when millions await the quick exits for those that believe they’ll be drafted. Add to that risk a lack of confidence in the ability of the leader on the sideline to turn talent into a truly special team? There only motivation at that point is to merely stay for the desire to the “big man” on campus….That likely fades quickly with every new salvation and fixation on the next D-Wade arriving on the bus from the East…or the next homey savior Crean pulls out of his rabbit-filled hat so we can all chant “Back Home Again…in Indiana.”

    Come on….We all had those professors in college that truly left a mark and inspired us toward something other than opening books just for the sake of opening books….Is the basketball hardwood any different? These young kids come into Assembly with all the potential in the world to change how they feel about the basketball world they’ve always believed was the only world….And for all the criticism of Knight, a man far from perfect, I do believe that his players understood the “basketball classroom” under his leadership was something that infected upon the heart an undeniably unique experience that was already paying future dividends..Every role was valued…It was a far more democratic basketball philosophy…Liberty was for all and not just the rich getting richer…the valued getting more valued. How on earth could anyone ever be a “Super-Sub?” You come off the bench and you’re “super?” What a concept. You work under the top brass and you’re still valued to the corporation? What a strange and deranged idea…

  36. H4H it is yet to be proved or even whispered that Crean’s recruits are thugs who do not attend classes and earn failing grades because of that action.

    Undoubtedly IT guys are at lunch.

  37. Be careful, Clarion…You’re tiptoeing…You do remember your promise…You sound agitated…Is that a mocking tone that I detect…You do remember the Missouri game…? Something about “deride.?”

    If anything is true in this Scoop world, I do know that Clarion is one of the few that stands tall to his word. It’s as set in stone as one of those pies your wife bakes in that 1957 iron electric skillet…Don’t go souring that delicate sweetness baked into perfection of your opinions found in every perfectly cut and dry slice of life you stand in honor of unwavering truth from the first peel a hand-picked apple to final ceremonial last bite of last slice to stick a fork into. …Final word to wife with all the reassurances every decision forever made without the iron truth? : Delicious. Honor, my friend. Honor. Don’t sour her pie..Don’t find a limp crust because the breaker failed due to a short in the old wiring of that skillet….(wiring…metaphor..brain…nerves, etc.).

  38. Harv there is no promise when comparing the K. Sanctions thugs who did not attend class and the students Crean has as players.

  39. You’re souring the pie with the taste of “deride”….It’s o.k. I didn’t expect you to keep your word.. How quickly gone is the sweetness of that Missouri promise….? Temptation be the end of us all.

  40. Thanks T and Harvard for your thoughts. Zeller+Vonleh+Ficsher. Nice to dream about it at least. I really really hope we can pull in a big man next year. Zimmerman maybe? One can hope.

  41. But will Blackmon and Yogi be gone…? Timing is everything…

    I think somebody needs to put a call into Hoosier Athletics and get this Geoff guy a job as b-ball video coordinator…..Possibly move up to assistant in a couple years. Too bad…I think he already cooked his goose with so much deriding of Crean.. There’s always the next regime.

  42. t – they got their first choice with Vonleh. And that was just last year.

    Ben – I think that Fischer obviously helps the situation, but it certainly wouldn’t have solved anything. The biggest issue was scheme, NOT personnel. You can afford to be small if you’re in great position all the time. We were in poor position all the time, and often out-numbered because of poor decisions. Fischer could not have overcome the scheme.

    I also think that Fischer simply improves our depth, but doesn’t change Crean’s formula. I bet that he would simply replace Hanner in the starting line-up with Luke. Hanner then might even play less because the cream always rises and Holt is proving to be a far better player, even as a young freshman. If Crean were into playing multiple post players he’d have played Holt and Hanner together last night when they needed it. He didn’t. He has his guards and his wings and his style. He’s been waiting 6 years to play this style. Unfortunately he doesn’t have the junk yard dogs to play D and wrestle in the paint for rebounds like he did at Marquette.

  43. t – you can put it whatever way you want, but Crean has gotten higher rated bigs than Pitino at UL. It hasn’t mattered. Our highly rated bigs have left early to the NBA and Pitino’s not-as-highly-rated ones have stayed and been coached-up. Now they make us envious. But if Crean had gotten those same exact players Harrell would be in the NBA and the others wouldn’t be making much of an impact because Crean can’t coach bigs.

  44. Include me with the name/e-mail concern. Figured it was a way to make me think twice before commenting.

  45. He could have done a lot worse. The bench wasn’t long enough to keep Mitch McGary. He got sent down to the Developmental League.

  46. murfman – what would you have their pre-season schedule look like? Put your coaching hat on and please make up your dream non-con 13 game schedule.

  47. Well, IU needs more bigs and when one leaves why isn’t another potential all American waiting or signed.

  48. Geoff, I agree that Crean’s teams rarely take away – or at least attempt to limit – their opponents strengths. It seems that his approach is invariably to try and speed up the game, and as we have seen all too often that does not work. I truly think he is trying to reach for a level of execution which will only be realized with a deep roster of supremely talented and conditioned players, a luxury he does not enjoy. Apparently he either does not get it, is in denial, lacks assistants who can get this point across to him, or all of the above. Although I appreciate all of the effort he has made to clean the stink off of IU’s reputation I think it is becoming increasingly clear that ultimately he will not be able to return IU to the level of the elite.

  49. after reading harv’s self-imposed exile i went to take a celebratory dump. alas, by the time i was finished, so was said exile. sigh. well, at least i can tell harv what i thought of his comment about hoetzel. you are wrong about him. he does belong. you and crean just can’t see it. he is going to be a big time player from us. take it from a professional.

    you are right about zeller. montrezl, my nizzle, stayed an extra year. donovan doesn’t seem to have any trouble getting guys to stay. cody is a zellout. can anyone please tell me this great list of lottery picks who stayed in college and ruined their careers with an injury. then can we compare that list to those who went pro before they were ready?

  50. Coach V – I don’t think the list of potential lottery picks that got injured and hurt their stock is very long. But certainly the list of potential-laden big me who would have been lottery picks or first-round selections but then stuck around too long only for the NBA scouts to watch their potential not pan out like they thought and then either didn’t get drafted or slid considerably is fairly long. That is the real risk…

  51. Good point, Geoff. Actually, excellent point. That’s the way the deck is stacked with regard to pro and college sports. This leads me to the thought that why do doc’s, attorneys, teachers, and others working on various kinds of degrees who are stars in his or her college occupational area as undergrads (the very top students), why can’t they leave early and get hired. Seems so unfair to the non athletic student that athletes have this system in place and others do not.

  52. t-

    You forgot about Dr. J….He went straight from college to become a doctor.

    Erving enrolled at the University of Massachusetts in 1968. In two varsity college basketball seasons, he averaged 26.3 points[11] and 20.2 rebounds per game, becoming one of only six players[12] to average more than 20 points and 20 rebounds per game in NCAA Men’s Basketball.[13]

    At that time, professional basketball was in flux, split between two leagues whose players rapidly switched clubs and leagues. Erving joined the ABA in 1971 as an undrafted free agent with the Squires(courtesy: Wikipedia)

    Pretty hard to fathom…Dr. J and undrafted free agent..Yet, he was so damn smooth with a scalpel…He could slice to the basket and carve his way without ever leaving a scar….I’ve yet to see such a surgeon…So smooth…so effortless…so cool and steady.

  53. I wonder if coachv examined his “dump” to see if was a perfect release…? Keep in mind, he is a “professional.”: Wrist to t.p…elbow square…eyes eye at the back of the rim….Swish! Just hoping I don’t get the details of the out-of-bounds play he drew up….or an alley-oop off the backdoor.

  54. touche`, harv. or perhaps, douche`.

    btw, the comment from an earlier post about voices in your head? i didn’t write that. not that i consider it particularly insulting.

  55. so I just re-watched the defensive possessions of the UL game. We had 38 defensive breakdowns. I was being generous to IU as well. The hardest part to swallow was that on the possessions where we were disciplined we were really successful. We didn’t give up easy looks and only gave up a couple offensive rebounds.

    After re-watching this (albiet only defensive possessions), there is no doubt in my mind we could’ve won the game.

    …slightly angrier now than I was last night. I would love to watch the game with anyone who wants to apologize for the performance last night and point out all our scheme deficiencies.

  56. Geoff,

    No dream list here, but made with regional thoughts and styles of play.

    Louisville, Kentucky, Butler, Cincinnati, Xavier, Notre Dame, Evansville, Ball State, Indiana State, Southern Illinois, Vanderbilt, Belmont, VCU.

  57. geoff,

    hurting your draft stock is a valid point but i don’t think zeller had to worry about slipping out of the lottery. when you get to the league either you has the goods or you don’t. obviously, prolonging entry into the draft is going to cost you some $. so maybe he earns 90 million instead of 100 million. when you get older you might thnk about the mark you leave on this earth. he could have been legend in indiana. in fact, had he lead iu to another banner or two is there any iu player in history who would be more remembered? the lost money could be made up easily in statewide endorsements.

    as it is he will become as forgotten as scott may’s kid (what was his first name?) or the plumlee boys in 30 years.

    speaking of the nba, i never watch but tried last night. turned out to be a great elixir for my insomnia as the crowd was about as enthusiastic as a pga turnout. what a bore. chalk that up as another reason to stay. another would be a chance to play in the dance again, the greatest spectacle in sports.

  58. When God wants banners, he’ll bring more banners…If he wants another Earth, he’ll bring another one from his marble jar…If we wants the globe warmer or cooler, he’ll move his thermostat of ice and flames accordingly. I must merely be what he wants “me” to be.. First and foremost, I am a messenger of a shape he chose as perfection in one; a shape given to the same on the cross that I see the mirror. This is what “everything” moving trough me must “hinge” upon…This is what I was born again to love. Banners hang low in comparison…For all of me was a gift from so higher above.

  59. “God’s still up there. The arrogance of people to think that we, human beings, would be able to change what He is doing in the climate is to me outrageous.” –R senator james inhofe, chairman of senate environment committee

    god help us

  60. Geoff, no matter if IU had zero defensive breakdowns against UL, we still would not have won that game. We don’t have the horses to beat a team like UL yet! It’s that simple.

    As for Kentucky, if and when the NBA ever eliminates the ridiculous one-and-done rule, or if the NCAA ever gets serious about holding Universities accountable for creating “student-athletes,” Kentucky basketball will fall from grace like a stone. IU’s players have to be academically eligible just to attend IU. They must pursue a legitimate degree. They have to attend class. They have to meet on a regular basis with their academic advisors and tutors. Their academic performance is closely monitored. Kentucky’s All-World basketball players simply don’t have to worry about any of that. That’s one reason they choose to go to Kentucky. It’s their players on the bench that we never see play who prop up the team’s academic stats. The good old days of Bob Knight’s college basketball are gone. And unless something changes with the NBA or the NCAA, they’re not coming back to Bloomington any time soon. And until Coach K, the Scumbag, Calipari and Boeheim retire, IU’s not going to have one of the best coaches in College Basketball. If you disagree, please identify the man who should become IU’s next head coach!

  61. Po – that first paragraph is ridiculous. I watched the game intensely from the defensive side, and there is no question that we could have won that game if we had zero breakdowns, or even 10 to 15 breakdowns. But we were consistently flying at shooters and forgetting where their best players were. On the many defensive possessions where we did not break down we were very successful. I’d say we did not break down on about 60% of the possession, and we did breakdown on about 40% of the possessions. That is inexact, but it’s pretty close. On the possessions where we broke down they probably scored 90% of the time. On the ones where we did not break down they scored probably 20 to 30% of the time. So if you extrapolate that over the course of the entire game without any breakdowns then we definitely win by double digits. If we have a more reasonable number of breakdowns, say in that 10 to 20 range, then we have a very good chance of winning the game, and at the very least it’s within a possession or two in the final minute.

    There have been lots of times that the team with fewer horses beat the team with more. When I was part of those games it was almost always because of a great scheme not because of dumb luck.

  62. Yes, it certainly looks like 80% IU fans at MSG to me….Yup, there’s one obviously large donor in his candy-stripes at court level(possibly Double Down..? He’s the one in candy-stripes with shoulders…But where, oh where, is Spike Lee?) The other faces all look like they’re watching Les Misérables for the fifth time….I can just feel the “Passion of the Transplants” …I’m pretty sure they knew this was one of those staged basketball matches..Tickets were actually printed with the game featured as the Pitino Globetrotters vs. Cody Zellerless Senators…It certainly felt like one of those old Globetrotter games…Globetrotters let us hang around to keep the “white men that can still jump” interested? Check…Meadowlark Lemon and some Chocolate Thunder vs.Zuckerberg Zoological Society of the Geek Squad? ..Check. More facials from “Thunder” than Facebook selfies..? Check. Sometimes the Globetrotters got a bit irritated when we made a shot or two…? Check. The clown act came out for a halftime interview and provided some monstrous giggles..? .Check. Popcorn break. Second half: Pitiino’s Globetrotters push the accelerator down just enough to playfully dominate the outmatched, passive, rather square looking, confused bunch pretending to play the game worn on their bold striped pajamas….? Check. Did you just feel the Hoosier prestige factor growing at MSG? Check.

  63. “When I was part of those games it was almost always because of a great scheme not because of dumb luck.”

    Geoff- Can you please also help Podunker out by doing a complete analysis of all the “breakdowns” that brought “dumb luck” to Bloomington and made him the basketball coach version of Pee-Wee Herman at the movie theaters?

  64. there is no other like Harvard. Your imagination is limitless. You have the mind of a toddler (except with experience) – always wondering, wandering… never quits… sometimes wakes up at 3:30 AM with an idea that must be typed out… sometimes just yelling, “Mom, momma, mommy, mommmm, momma, MOM, mommy” over and over again. Sometimes hilariously entertaining, while other times endlessly annoying.

    It’s really amazing to watch.

  65. ps… right now I’m in a hotel room because our house had the carpets cleaned today and need 24 hours to dry which means all of our furniture and belongings are in the 3 rooms that have tile or hardwood and we have no beds to sleep on… so I’m hiding in the bathroom so I can laugh at Harvard’s posts without waking up Grayson in his pack-n-play 3 feet away…

    Good news is that things are finally starting to get back to normal at the house… been a long 8 days. Tomorrow we can re-organize and have the dog move back in… woo hoo!

  66. Can’t wait for this season to end. It’s been 20 plus years. It’s time to bring in someone else.

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