24 comments

  1. as a true IU fan i am looking forward to next year!!! but i am very optimistic, why? the QB position…with Zander Diamont out of the picture, it looks like Richard Lagow has the QB position in hand…Richard Lagow has the size and the big arm, but that is “it”….the other intangibles are missing. Richard Lagow may have reached his peak….there was minimal improvements by Richard Lagow from spring camp to the end of the year….Richard throws where high and inaccurate in spring ball and they where still inaccurate and high against Purdue. i am truly hoping that Richard Lagow does have some upside…because the only are of concern for the IU football team next year is the play of the QB position and the Offensive line (which i have a lot more faith and hope in the development of the O-line).

  2. Next year could be an exciting year based on returning players. How good the team will be will based on how much Lagow or one of the back-ups can improve. The OL will need to be better but they will bring good experience to the OL with Cronk, Bailey, and especially if Camiel returns.

    Defense should have another big improvement next year with the incoming DL added into the front especially if both LBs come back. There are plenty of experienced DBs to rely on.

    Heading into the bowl game it will be fun to see what the coaches focus on offensively and how well the defense is prepared for the offense they will meet.

  3. I’m not a big Lagow guy by any means but the guy came from junior college to playing four teams ranked in the top ten. I’d have loved to see Johnny Football come out of nowhere to dominate the Big Ten but he wasn’t ready (not claiming he will be in the future) to go from junior college to beating multiple teams that are in the national title conversation the last week of the season. Maybe he’s not quite there yet. Him and all but, maybe, 25 other guys in the country.

    He played JC last year. They got to a bowl. They played pretty much everyone close. Sure, there was a win or two out there to be had. They didn’t. Maybe they did OK.

    1. Chet,

      Tall task for any QB new to the B1G no doubt, but Lagow’s worst games came against Wake Forest, Nebraska, Northwestern and Purdue. So wild, though. He throws 5 picks against WF, we lose, but he sets a single game passing record with 496.

      I’m not sure about him. It isn’t just the INTs. I just noticed him missing open receivers quite a bit. Beyond that, he doesn’t have that leadership swagger and field vision your field general requires. Maybe he needs time to develop? Dunno. Didn’t really see a lot to like this year.

      V13 is right, though. Our O-line this year was shaky. Tough on both the running game and tough on pass protection. That surely factors in.

      Would hope this King kid seriously challenges for a spot next year. Either way, we need a lot of improvement out of the QB position if we’re going to improved on our 6 win threshold.

  4. I think Scales will turn pro. I don’t know where Oliver would get drafted. He anticipates really well but seems to lack elite speed. It seems like Camiel would have a better chance of making a team if he returns to IU for one last season. Is anyone else worried that an SEC or elite Big Ten team is going to offer Tom Allen $800-1M to Tom Allen to be their DC? He is an elite coach and IU needs to pay him accordingly or someone else will.

  5. Tom Allen should get a raise, certainly. I think IU has a certain cache for Allen. If they can match other salaries I get the feeling he would stay.

  6. A few comments in contribution to this discussion, and maybe one or two to begin others.
    Regardless of his background and experience in JC, I’m not sure Lagow’s flaw’s can be corrected. He can’t find secondary receivers and he’s simply not an accurate passer. This season’s performance may be the best he can deliver. And what worries me is that none of his returning back-ups got any experience this season. Again, Wilson did not do a good job managing his stable of Quarterbacks.

    For whatever success IU had this season, and the fact that we still have a chance to produce a winning season, the credit belongs to Coach Allen and his staff. IU was 6-6 in spite of Wilson and his sputtering and turnover prone offense. If any coach on this staff deserves a raise, it’s Allen. Glass should immediately design a contract and pay increase for Allen that signals that Allen will be Wilson’s replacement in a few years. Money talks and BS walks, and Glass should be proactive in protecting Allen instead of waiting for him to get poached by some SEC team offering him a 7-digit salary (which IU could not and would not match).

    123, I raised the concern on the Scoop earlier this year that Allen could easily get poached by an SEC team with deeper pockets. The concerns I expressed were dismissed and I was informed that IU has the money and budget it needs to protect the coaches Wilson wants to keep. And we should remember that Allen’s son has committed to play for IU next season. So, if Allen’s son signs with IU (in February), it is less likely that Allen will leave the program for a while. But it would not be difficult for some SEC team to offer both Allen and his son places on the team. And they have plenty of time to do navigate the “twofer” deal.

  7. Lagow threw 18 TD passes against 16 INTs this season. But when you include his three lost fumbles, that’s 19 turnovers against 18 TD passes. Those bad stats really make you wonder how IU won six games this season? The answer; a mentally tough, resilient and well-coached defense. Based on his passing stats, Lagow was the 66th rated QB in the FBS division. I was surprised that his rating was that high.

  8. Fortunately for IU, if a school offered a ‘package deal’ for Allen and his son and there was any evidence to back it up they’d be committing an NCAA violation…unless it was U of L of course. They can’t seem to be charged with anything no matter how hard they try.

    I agree that we must consider that Lagow had the season of a lifetime. We’ll know next year.

  9. Lagow will improve because the OL and rushing game will improve even though some blog QB coaches think different. What else will improve next year is a stable of QB underclassmen who will add competition for the position. Something ZD just was not equipped for. Playing them as Frosh would mean no bowl this year.

    The only program in CFB that allows me 2nd thoughts about Allen is the Irish(as Kelly fired his DC Brian Van Gorder weeks ago)because they are in state. But AD Glass has enough financial horsepower to keep Allen in B-town..

    1. HC, just because I don’t find Lagow to be a good QB, doesn’t mean I’m trying to be some kind of blog QB coach. That’s silly. I’m just another fan with an opinion and I hope that I’m wrong. My words don’t mean anything and impact nothing. Just talking with the 9 other people on the planet that actually follow IU football.

      Some of Lagow’s issues just don’t seem like ones that can be cleared up with a better O-Line. Or, would the improvements he’d make with a better O-Line help him enough to captain the offense that used to be a B1G juggernaught? It isn’t easy to tell. I thought his decision making and leadership seem to be lacking. The guy has a rocket for an arm, and sure that accuracy can improve in the next 9 months, but to me, that isn’t the whole deal.

      I don’t understand how discussion about the QB who was one of the main reasons for our offensive struggles this year is verboten. He was definitely our best option this year, but he was also not very good…at all. Either way, either he needs to step up or hopefully one of our younger guys emerges to improve our offense next year.

  10. Sudfeld, Nate 12 151.03 247-412-7 60.0 3573 27 297.8 4th year QB
    Lagow, Richard 12 133.59 239-399-16 59.9 3174 18 264.5 1st year QB

    One other factor to keep in mind was the lack of running game and the number of hits Lagow took compared to what Nate dealt with. Rushing this year, yards gained 2222 while in 2015 yards gained rushing 3020. There are many other stats to factor in but holding one QB up to another isn’t just about what one did but what the team was like around them. Lagow struggled at times this year yet also finished the last three games with 3 ints [two games with no ints]. It may be a situation where Coach Wilson needs to add a new OC that he trust to develop QBs and call plays.

  11. Good points in that last post, V13. And you’re right about there being a connection between the quality of the O-line’s play, the running game and the QB’s performance. But as DD implies, some of Lagow’s problems and many of the INTs he threw this year had absolutely nothing to do with the O-line. Often times, he simply made really bad throws. He struggles to find secondary receivers and often throws high or way off target, no matter how much time he has in the pocket. And as we witnessed on Saturday, he continues to throw late over the middle (never a good idea, but especially when the receiver is 5′ 8″ tall). In addition to the O-line’s issues, I think Lagow was affected by IU’s tendency to change the play at the line of scrimmage. He often gives me the impression that he get’s rattled and can’t make the mental adjustment when the play has been changed. But in addition to Lagow’s imperfections, I often think Wilson is just too smart for his own good, and I wonder if he should simplify the offense. Clearly, being ranked dead last (in the FBS) in scoring from inside the red zone is an indication that significant changes need to be made. For example, if the O-line was having such problems, and given the limited depth to work with when down close the the goal-line, why did Wilson often call four consecutive running plays, or refuse to kick the field goal on 4th down and short? To be fair to Lagow, we can only speculate as to how of the problem can be attributed to him and how much of it rests on Wilson’s shoulders.

  12. Why can’t IU match anything another might offer T.A. If needed sell some land or a building and give him a long term contract with a guaranteed head coach deal in the future with some standards and qualifiers on the deal so he can keep his excellent work up. Plus He and Hagen, and rest of staff must be working pretty well together. There seems to be very good continuity.

  13. Po, I often thought the same things about Nate especially when the game was on the line. I too am wondering if the scheme could improve by some subtraction. There are little things that may be going on but get missed when watching on TV. I just don’t see our receivers making moves to get open ad often this year passes had to made when the receivers were well covered. I still don’t understand changing QBs throwing motions unless it creates big problems if not changed. I hope Lagow, King, or one of the other QBs can step up and be the QB the offense needs to win games against teams people don’t expect IU to beat.

  14. Nate Sudfeld 2015 completion rate 60.0% and Lagow’s 2016 59.9% indicates an accuracy difference? Also there were 5 hits on RL while throwing that resulted in INT’s and 6 tipped passes intercepted. For a 1st year QB in the B1G the thing Lagow lacked most was the 6 offensive players of 2015 who NS enjoyed and were not on the 2016 roster + Feeney for 4 games. If this team could have duplicated the rushing yards of 2015 the bitching would be mute.

  15. Completion percentage is a nice stat, but it’s window dressing. As all football coaches will attest, turnovers can cost a team games and destroy a season. And Lagow generated more turnovers (INTs + fumbles) than he did touchdowns this season. At the very least, his INTs cost IU the win against Wake Forest. It almost cost IU the game against Purdue and a trip to a bowl game. And it may have cost IU a chance to have a winning season (time will tell). As for support, Lagow had another 1,000 yard rusher in the backfield this season. If a frog had wings, it would fly, and every team in the country can say, “if we had all the talent we lost after last year, we’d have been really good this year.” That’s ridiculous, especially when OSU had 13 players selected in the 2016 NFL draft. Winners find a way to win with the tools at their disposal. They don’t make excuses, they adapt and adjust. You lose some great O-linemen, then adjust your offense to include more quick passes and shorter routes. You lose a great power-running back, don’t continue to try to punch it in on fourth and goal inside the red zone. Instead, kick the field goal. You lose an effective QB to graduation, you have a talented back-up that has been developed to step in play at an equally high level. Wilson gets paid the big bucks to figure out how to produce winning seasons in spite of the roster changes that affect every team in the country.

  16. When it comes to completion % it tells much what the passers potential is. Ask any QB coach do they want 70% or 50% from their QB. When it comes to recruiting and depth who has the easiest task of reloading from year to year, the Bucks or IU? That difference is so vast it is not measurable or attained by but a handful of programs in the country. 1000 yd. rushers are needed but the 800 yd. additional the O gained in 2015 is impossible when replacing 7 very solid starters at IU. Your OSU analogy is proof.

  17. PO, two ints in the endzone were receivers that had the ball go through their hands or bounce off their hands. Putting all the blame on Lagow isn’t right. He was responsible on two of the ints and as coach said they threw a pass they hadn’t practiced much. Same thing happened in other games, most were on Lagow but receiver contributed to them or OL for getting him hit as he released the ball.

    Your point about team having talent to reload compares teams with 5 star athletes to a school with mostly 3 star players. It takes time to get IU’s roster up to the level of being able to replace players that graduate with other players ready to move in. You and I, along with others want IU to be at the level of OSU, UM, PSU, but it will take time for that to happen at IU no matter who the coach is. Fans dream of greatness while coaches have to deal with the reality of the players they have on the roster. HC is right that losing the 7 players, especially the top three Howard, Spriggs, and Nate, make it hard to overcome the lose of those players. I was hopeful that Lagow would be good enough to do the job but we will have to wait and see next year if he has the ability to do that.

  18. V- I think you are seeing only the good in Lagow and not the bad. He does have accuracy problems. He has trouble with the short screen passes, often throwing behind the receiver and was high over the middle so much they took those throws away. His deep balls were basically early punts that sometimes his receivers could also field. The kid has a really strong arm and was great on the short out routes, but otherwise, every pass was an adventure. Lagow was also throwing to an excellent set of receivers. Even with Cobbs and Harris hurt, Westbrook, Page, Timian and Jones were all very good. And I don’t know if its as much a lack of talent as a lack of confidence. I think IU needs a Mark Hagen or Tom Allen on the offensive side of the ball to get those guys playing more loose and with more confidence. I think a lot of their errors were from guys trying too hard. K Jones seems like a good position coach but his talents don’t lend themselves to OC. When the errors would come, they would come in bunches. That said to me they were still thinking about the last play/ last mistake- that’s a coaching problem not a player problem.

  19. He completes 60% but oddly every pass was an adventure. That bit of misdirection lost me at the bakery.

  20. 123, you missed my comments about many ints were his fault and in another post that I hope Lagow, King, or another QB can improve enough to lead to wins. Lagow didn’t have accuracy problems until Johns decided he needed to change his throwing motion which is a coaching problem.

    I hope the offense can get back to be one of the leading teams in the B1G once again. I also hope the coaches figure out how to score in the red zone which has been a problem since Howard left.

  21. Natee must become 60% of the answer for red zone potency going forward. But 1st he must become explosive. He’ll be Caton’s special project.

Comments are closed.