IU falls at Purdue, 57-49

WEST LAFAYETTE — There was a simplicity to how Indiana coach Archie Miller diagnosed his team’s 57-49 loss Thursday at Purdue.

How critical was the Boilermakers’ 10-2 run to end the first half, fueled by the Hoosiers’ untimely turnovers?

“The game,” Miller said, before going into some other, less important details.

But why did the Hoosiers struggle to get the ball into the post, adding to their misery on a night where only 25.4 percent of their shots went down?

“Purdue,” IU’s third-year coach said, more willing to give the Boilermakers’ suffocating defense credit than to wallow in the Hoosiers’ futility.

“At some point in time, do you really think it’s that easy, to throw it inside on them?”

It was obvious why the Hoosiers (18-10, 8-9 Big Ten) dropped their seventh straight game to their in-state rival. They gave the Boilermakers momentum on their home floor, then couldn’t break out of their own deep freeze offensively.

But Miller and his squad weren’t prepared to read too deeply into this one. Not when they held Purdue (15-14, 8-10) to just 37.5 percent shooting from the floor. Not when the Hoosiers finished with just 13 turnovers following a careless stretch going into the locker room.

For the most part, IU played hard. The Hoosiers just couldn’t overcome a cacophony of clanks, a sound they will try to quickly forget as they head to the road again to face Illinois.

“We are just staying together,” senior De’Ron Davis said. “Nobody cares about the losses. We don’t care. Everything that matters is the win. We are just focused on the next one.”

It was just an ugly game, all around. Senior Devonte Green was the only Hoosier to crack double digits with 11 points on 3-of-15 shooting, including 3-of-14 from 3-point range. But his shots were mostly out of necessity. Purdue effectively neutralized IU freshman Trayce Jackson-Davis with post traps, holding him to a 2-of-7 effort from the field.

Then again, forwards Joey Brunk and Justin Smith were each 2-of-8. The Hoosiers couldn’t hit from deep, nor could they convert from within a couple of feet from the basket.

“I feel like we played really hard, but, at the end of the day, shots didn’t fall,” sophomore point guard Rob Phinisee said. “Credit to Purdue, they had a great atmosphere here, and they played really hard.”

IU was cold from the very start. The Hoosiers connected on just 6-of-28 from the field in the first half. That included a scoring drought of 6:23, as well as a period of 9:40 where the Hoosiers didn’t register a field goal.

But just enough shots were falling to give the visitors hope. Green connected on a 3-pointer to cut the deficit to 13-12 at the 7:06 mark, and freshman Armaan Franklin came through with another to cut it to 19-18.

Energy and hustle were followed by waning execution, however. Four of IU’s eight first-half turnovers came in the final three minutes of the first half, including a lost dribble by Al Durham that led to an Eric Hunter Jr. dunk to cap it.

Purdue led 29-20 heading into the locker room, on the strength of a 10-2 run.

“In this type of game, that nine-point lead is like 15, 16, the way the defense was playing on one end of the floor,” Miller said. “You can’t turn the ball over. Our guards had seven of the eight turnovers in the first half, and they are live-ball turnovers. We knew we couldn’t do that.” 

That momentum carried into the second half, initially with Evan Boudreaux. The 6-foot-8 senior collected an offensive rebound for two free throws, then nailed a 3 with Jackson-Davis’ hand in his face to increase the lead to 34-20. A transition layup from Hunter Jr. on a Sasha Stefanovic steal pushed it to an actual 16-point deficit with 16:33 remaining.

Game over, essentially.

IU continued to fight, though. With the post a point of no entry, Phinisee and Green connected on just enough to make things interesting. They each hit 3s to bring the lead down to single digits. But Green’s 3 with 9:08 left — making the score 42-33 — was the Hoosiers’ last field goal until a Race Thompson post bucket five minutes later.

Thompson rebounded a Phinisee miss to reduce it to 48-42 going into a timeout with 2:49 left, but Purdue wasn’t going to let this one escape its grasp. As the Hoosiers were forced to foul, the Boilermakers sank seven free throws.

Seven free throws to seal a seventh straight victory over an in-state rival. But this one had a different character than the sixth, at least in IU’s collective mind.

“I thought our guys were physical the best they could, I thought we hung in there with a lot of different types of guys,” Miller said. “And I thought from a defensive standpoint, especially in the midway point of the second half, when you could cave in and it’s not feeling good in there, that wasn’t the case with our team. So I like that.

“We gotta keep carrying on.”


  1. Starting to relate to Michigan fans n their Ohio State rivalry. Indiana is 1-16 vs Purdue since Zeller and Oladipo left.

  2. What a week! The great news regarding Lander and then watching the current team play one of the worst games I have ever seen! My greatest hope is that the backcourt next year is Lander and Leal and they meet expectations. There is no current guard on this roster that is outstanding and deserves significant minutes. Durham, Franklin, Green are poor ball handlers and decision makers. Phinisee handles the ball decently but no way does he have high level capabilities. However, he deserves some minutes, unless Galloway is better and Franklin improves his ball handling and decision making. Also, TJD needs to develop some type of mid range shot to free up his driving lanes and Archie needs to get an athletic wing with scoring capability and court sense which means Smith gets much less playing time. Not sure about Hunter. He can shoot, but seems slow and does not handle the ball or pass very well. Brunk has gone backwards and right now is a detriment. Thompson hustles but needs to develop some offense. The bottom line is besides Lander and having TJD back, it would really help if Archie can add one more impact player for next season.

  3. 1-16….is that true? It was our FG run a few times during this game.

    A team doesn’t shoot 25% w/o simply taking bad shots. And tonight we just chucked shots at the rim, especially in the paint. In the 1H be must’ve missed 10 point blank shots. We’ve missed a lot of those all year.

    Aside from a pretty good 10 min from Race & Phinisee down the stretch, I struggle to point to any other player who played well tonight in any stretch of minutes.

    The only positive takeaway is that they played hard for 40 min. There was no giving up, or hanging heads. Too bad we’ll also get manhandled at Illinois. I give us a 1% chance of winning that game.

  4. Wow! I just absorbed the stats…our starting front line was 6-23, add in Race & DD and we were 8-28 combined up front. Then, our starting guards were 3-13 & reserve guards 4-18, inclusive of Hunter, for a total of 7-31 for 22.6%.

    Starters 9 – 36 = 25% with 4 assists & 6 TOs
    Bench 6 – 23 = 28% with 2 assists & 6 TOs

    Too much chucking & hope, too much standing around, too many missed post pass opportunities being indecisive. Also I don’t think I’ve ever seen a team of guards simply fall down & lose the ball so many times in 1 season. Just really bad guards (AGAIN).

  5. after reading the previous posts about “chucking the rock”, might I make a few pointers heard from the announcers at game. When IU was missing shots badly in 1 half..observation made about anxiousness. I believe the announcers felt the anxiety and tension from Purdue crowd as well. Still a young team with many KIDS still absorbing experience. I wish Rob would be ready to shoot the ball instead of acting surprised when a pass finds him and he seems to know not what to do except pass. THAT doesn’t help your front line players when they are getting double and tripled teamed. Also heard “no blood ; no foul” this was a cage fight without the cage and it was almost as important for the fouls NOT called as those that were. I don’t believe the referees were ready for the “trench fight” that ensued. 1 LAST QUESTION : WHAT WAS THAT HEATED “DISCUSSION” ON THE SIDELINES BETWEEN BRUISER FLINT AND ARCHIE???

  6. This was a putrid performance. How can any IU team play so badly? How can any team shoot so badly? It’s just total BS to blame these disgraceful performances on Crean or the players he recruited. I doubt any IU team coached by Crean ever played or shot so badly.

    What the hell is wrong with this team when they go on the road? This below average Purdue team has beaten IU twice this season, and in both contests IU played terrible. So much for getting up for your in-state rival. IU Boy’s Basketball team is at least two years away from being anywhere close to competing for a Big Ten Championship.

  7. You sure are hanging your hat on ‘BigTen Championships’ in order to conveniently ignore the 23 Elite Eights and 15 Final Fours achieved by nine Midwestern teams to Indiana’s zilch from 2010-17.

    The only thing that puts programs on the map is doing well in March Madness. Nobody judges Knight by his BigTen Championships. The only reason we’re a rival of anyone is because of five banners and three of those under Knight. Pur-dung has had their way of late….but nobody is really a “rival” if they can’t approach your history on the biggest stages of the game.

    Give Archie the nine total years given Crean and we’ll see if he can get beyond a Sweet 16. If Archie keeps repairing the instate recruiting damage done by Crean, I think we’ll get back to the biggest stages of the game sooner rather than later.

  8. Purdue vs IU. Purdue players as a team plus Purdue crowd turns game physical on IU. IU responds with anxiety and uncomfortable shots that have little chance to score. Purdue is not good but hit a couple more shots because they handled physical aspect of game better and just played through it where it gets in IU players heads.
    It seems that IU has to be clearly better than Purdue to win especially at Purdue. As win loss history indicates Purdue usually wins these slug fest type games.

    It seems I have seen this over and over again in basketball and football. Last fall IU was lucky to win football game in overtime against a beat up what was left of Purdue football team. You could say IU was beat up also. However, IU was a little better going into football game should have been a more solid win.

  9. This team has been fairly inconsistent and soft all year. I really don’t think Archie understands offense at all. His Dayton teams mostly played great defense which led to transition fast breaks. The B1G is a tough conference with great coaches. IU is neither tough nor has a great coach. For some reason, he can beat MSU and that is about it. I compare Arch to Richard Pitino. They could both do well in A10 where competition is not as strong but they struggle on this stage. Blaming Crean it anyone else at this point is not valid. He is just not a strong coach, I don’t care who you give him for players.

  10. Purdue Crowd, officiating referees, all many other excuses for a terrible performance by the I U Men’s Basketball Team should be placed on the real problem the players and I U coaches, this season looks to end in another dempster fire and playing some suck up games in the NIT. Coach Miller needs to get rid of his sportscoats and colored button shirts( maybe these outfits are is good luck clothing in past games), wear some I U logo clothing or maybe the I U Band Department can loan him a red blazer for game wear. The team looked lost or unprepared Purdue didn’t shoot any high percentages for the game for that’s one less excuse to use for the defeat, offense used too much of the shot clock before having to force up a shot, not even hitting the rim. just a poor effort.

  11. the anxiety that was displayed by the shooters only serves to prove inexperience in high anxiety games and that proves they really aren’t “pure shooters”. Pure shooter would find a way to get theoir shot. Good or Bad Devonte IS a pure shooter and this game showed that “sometimes” his “Hero ball” is result that Al ,Rob, and Arman are not “shooters” For those “bemoaning ” the loss of Crean …His basketball team is in 12th in the SEC with a 4 -11 record 14-14 overall and has a candidate for the NBA’s #1 pick in Anthony Edwards. Georgia is giving up 75 points a game 2nd worst defense in the SEC.

  12. after looking at this game cannot see any way Indiana can beat Illinois. Illinois is not a good match-up for this Indiana team. I can see Illinois blowing Indiana off the floor. Illinois is on the upswing and Indiana is playing for the NIT. Take Illinois and the points!!!

  13. Odd…I see Ill-annoy as a very winnable game. We lost to Purdue in a game…Yes, it’s another loss to Purdue in a game. They have their bragging rights for now. They strut their stuff around West Lafayette-to-have-a-banner and use these rolls in the mud to justify no meaningful cloth.
    Fox Sports and Lavin used last night’s game to show old photos of Weber…and Painter…and Levin all learning from their master, Gene Keady. They sit down with Keady at halftime, a Boy George ‘Culture Club’ song plays in the background as the Mackey crowd looks blissful and at peace…Gene munches on his dentures and they reminisce of all the zero success he and his entire coaching family have acquired in March Madness. It’s a beautiful thing. Yes, the apples don’t fall far from the old orchard…These are apples too tainted for the few Mackey worms immune to the toxic ground built of too much proven “success” in fertilizer development and pesticide experimentation; apples rarely sweet enough for even a Sweet 16 never to near a bushel basket at a Final Four farmers market. Gene and Steve…and Bruce….and Matt forever talking of old photos..and old maple… and “storied” Mackey as one of the “best” venues of all of college basketball.
    Don’t get me wrong, the Pur-don’t apple dumpling gang, West Lafayette-to-have-a-banner is a wonderfully passionate place to watch a rotten apple fight, but I must beg to differ with the esteemed crew of Fox Sports proudly boasting of their Purdue warts.
    You live in the venue or “atmosphere” of your “BEST” home because it’s all you really have. You’ve never packed your bags long enough to bring the most sought after cloth back to Mackey. You boast in the same world in which so many who must act the part they’ve never lived. You pollute the ground and airwaves for decades acting as if “there’s no place like home” when, all along, it’s because you long for the “out-of-this-world” places where only four teams from the entire college basketball planet can hover above earth’s “atmosphere” in their rocket ships to play at THE venue; a Final Four weekend and a Monday night in April.

    How many years in coaching between Keady, Weber, Lavin and Painter? How many Final Fours? My guess is ONE. How many Elite Eights? We think we brick? The Hall of Fame Four of Keady, Weber, Lavin and Painter have scored one Final Four in 50 years of combined coaching. Now that’s bricking it!

    And we’re beating up on young Archie? Hell, even Crean looks like “Mr. March” compared to that lot of rotten apples and denture munchers.

    Purdue-you-really-want-to-hurt-me…? I think you do..because, well, you’re due. You do because you’d like to make us believe it’s the end of our world because it’s Pur-you who has never left the launch pad. You know, for a place that trains astronauts and has a ‘Space Program,’ one would think they’d somehow learn to build a passenger seat for their basketball program for more than once in a Sputnik. Beep….beep….beep…..beep.

  14. Well I thought would channel Rock by seeing if my not paying any attention at all to the Minny game would help at ole PU. Unfortunately, it only worked on gophers.

    I will say that I am extremely embarrassed by this game, not so much with the team, but with Hoosier Nation. You know, I understand the low FB IQ for Hoosier Nation, it is primarily a BB school. However, the low BB IQ is hard to accept with all of the hardwood history that is IUBB. How can a fan base which is supposed to be so knowledgeable show so little understanding when it comes to a total program rebuild?

    So I am going to ask 2 very elementary questions regarding the current state of IU men’s BB to see what kind of responses we get.

    1. What is the number 1 problem with this team, and the last 2 Archie teams?
    2. What is Archie doing to fix the number 1 problem?

    1. Answers:

      #1 (I was saying it months ago)…..Knock-your-socks-off and ‘Rock’-your-rims-off POINT GUARD.
      #2 He found one in Lander.

      We now must wait and make the best of Archie’s first wave of hopefuls and his handful of Tom’s leftover heroes and holdovers… as the castle drawbridge can’t lower fast enough over the moat for a leader, a point guard on a white horse, who will join the rest his army from our Hoosier state to return to the fort of banner flags , embrace storied Indiana, and bring meaning back to the name on the jersey once again.

      1. And when you really deeply exam their skill sets, Durham, Phinisee and Franklin all probably function better as shooting guards than point guards. Sure, they can be somewhat “pedestrian” at point, but they’d probably be better served to play where quickness and total assuredness with the rock is not quite so pertinent.

        They all serve better as secondary point guards and primary/secondary shooting guards. Phinisee has trouble creating his own shot…but when he’s set (as if on the receiving end of an assist) he’s much more accurate and displays a nice jumper. Durham…? Much the same. The lefty has a nice stroke…but he may benefit more when a dynamite point guard can find him in rhythm or locate him slashing for the rim.

        We’re dying for a “creator” and an “orchestrator” to deliver the rock to our orchestra of discombobulated talent. The “FIX” is on the way…along with a hopeful band of length and shooters. But make no mistake, the guards we have coming back will be far better in roles that do not demand full orchestration. Just my novice opinion…..

    2. I said it much earlier than this, but it’s really hard to retrieve old Scoop files anymore…(must have something to do with WordPress not being Google friendly. Not really sure because I’m not an techie/expert)…..

      Harvard for Hillbillies says:
      January 31, 2020 at 1:35 pm

      I do think tightening up the guard rotations would help some….Franklin is inconsistent but I believe much of that is growing pains (he needs more minutes).
      Do I expect the guard rotations will tighten up? Not really hopeful.

      I would play Durham all the minutes I could use him. Phinisee & Franklin would get the majority of the remainder.

      Bottom Line: We are short a superstar (wing or guard…but I prefer the superstar at point guard). Our very deep and high quality front line begs for better guard play….and it’s simply been absent (shooting, steadiness, explosiveness and leadership).
      Hunter has helped with turning around the abysmal long-range shooting but it still doesn’t have the same impact as leadership from the point guard position.

      Enter Lander….

  15. Think..#1 problem is shooting..not just having throw a ball up towards the basket, but mechanics. I noticed that towards the end of PU Game..Durham was in corner taking a shot. He drifted to the right , my understanding of a good shot ,Durham should have collected his feet and balance before going up. Many of the perimeter shooters are “spot shooters” and don’t shoot very well at all coming of a screen or off a dribble. They should know by this time where their spots are, Durham did that very thing previous game shooting from a spot on the left wing. Justin Smith should have been taught early on to use the backboard for his mid-range shot ( much like Keith Wilkes did at UCLA) The injuries from last year hindered development of his players . unfortunately Archie recruited Demezi as a shooter and has exhibited a release of his shot too easy to be blocked; and at this point Im not sure if DA is working on improvements or planning to transfer. Archie has recruited what has been labeled “Shooters” and a point guard. While Geronimo seems to be athletic he is also a basketball player

  16. think, the Hoosier Nation is a lot more “embarrassed” by our Men’s BB program than you are by the Hoosier Nation’s “lack of BB IQ.” Remember, probably about half of today’s Hoosier Nation wasn’t alive the last time IU had a quality basketball coach who could teach them what sound basketball looked like, so of course they are, in relative terms, ignorant. Also, IU has not been a “basketball school” for 30 years, so we should stop referring to it as such. It will be a long time before the Hoosier nation can blame that IU is a basketball school. Saying that after yesterday’s vomit-inducing performance is a joke.

    One other thing. If anyone thinks a kid who should be a Senior in HS will, if he even ends up reclassifying for 2020, be able to fix the problems that plague this team, you’re setting yourself up for massive disappoint in the not too distant future. You’re also placing an enormous amount of pressure on the young man’s back. I remember hearing similar things about Romeo, but we all know how that turned out in spite of his enormous talent. Lander’s arrival will be good news, but I don’t see him playing the role of savior for IU Basketball. But let’s hope he does reclassify for the class of 2020. Otherwise, watching too many more games like last night’s might make him re-open his recruiting.

  17. That should have read, “It will be a long time before the Hoosier Nation can claim that IU is “a basketball school” again.

  18. Podunker, you do realize that you’ve been predicting downturns in recruiting based on individual games for years, only to be wrong again and again, right? Allen is turning out the best recruiting classes in Indiana football history, even with a few boo boo games along the way. You keep saying Archie can’t recruit, yet he’s getting the best players in Indiana who have been doing the state since the end of the Bob Knight era.

    Yet you keep saying it. It isn’t happening.

  19. Well, it is obvious we have some posters who get it while others may never.

    The number 1 problem for IUBB is they simply can’t shoot, period.

    What is Archie doing about it? Look at what he has been trying to recruit since coming to IU – SHOOTERS!!!

    At best Archie inherited streaky shooters, nothing consistent either in returning players or TLC’s last recruiting class Archie had to salvage. So what did Archie do in recruiting his own type players? He went out and tried to recruit shooters, let’s look at the results.

    1st recruiting class: RL – one and done but played most of the year with injured thumb limiting whatever shooting ability he might have had. JH – good shooter but lost entire first year to illness, still trying to come back. RT – Can shoot but lost most of first year to concussion, just now coming back to form. RP – Can shoot but lost 2 months of first year to concussion, still not quite the same as before injury. DA – Works hard, but may not get over the hump, hope so, great kid. JF – Took a chance but didn’t work out.

    2nd recruiting class: TJD – Achieving great things as a freshman big man, still has large upside, needs to be able to shoot a little further out. AF – Can shoot, but has to develop his game, typical freshman.

    3rd recruiting class: KL – great shooter, great point guard. AL – good shooter, tough defender. TG – good shooter, can carry a team if needed. JG – having a break out final year of HS, outside shot coming around. Will high school carryover to college for these kids? Never know for sure until they put on the candy stripes.

    CAM is not recruiting one and done’s for the most part. He is looking for guys who will stay 3-4 years. That is how you hang banners. Not pretty the first few years, but long term it is how the teams hanging the most banners the last 5 years have done it.

    1. Speaking of the elephant in the room, I wonder if Houdini came back from the dead as Archie Miller…? I’m convinced that only the greatest magician ever could turn Indiana kids swishing basketballs through nets into a disappearing act.

  20. I don’t think Romeo could ever really shoot the long ball…It had nothing to do with his thumb. That injury wasn’t most of the year. The word on him even in high school was that his jumper was suspect. I would imagine it’s the main reason he’s having problems at the next level. He never came into Bloomington as a lights out shooter.

    I would also argue that the teams who make it deepest into March (with few exceptions) have elite point guards. Shooters need a distributor.

    The PURDUE THINGAMAJIG: Remove the two seasons of Zeller and Crean was 1-10 against Purdue. Actually, remove Zeller and he’s the worst coach known to man….but we already know that.

    Mike Davis was 9-2 against Purdue.
    Sampson was 2-1 against Purdue.
    Post Knight, Davis & Sampson went a combined 11-3 against our most hated rival.

    For the 12 years since firing Sampson we have gone 5-15 (keep in mind four of those wins are with Zeller)…It probably would be 1-19 without Zeller.

    So what happened? Why have we nosedived against our rival other than the blip on the radar that was the Zeller years?

    Answer: The complete alienation in recruiting the state of Indiana “soundly” from corner to corner. Crean was saved by one Indiana recruit. Outside of that one recruit and a bit of momentum bringing us Yogi in the “movement” (a better than “pedestrian point guard) with Cody, every high school coach and high school program across this state had been abandoned by Tom Crean.
    If ‘Indiana recruiting’ was Crean’s newborn baby, he abandoned it and left it at the fire station drop box.

    What we are still witnessing…and what we witnessed last night is the result of abandoning Indiana. We must regain that trust that was so recklessly lost. It doesn’t happen overnight.

  21. Romeo also needed an elite point guard….And he needed to mature his game and himself. He needed to be tougher and meaner. He didn’t have the swagger to put a team on his shoulders (with or without injury).
    Unless it’s a premier center…or an elite point guard, I’d probably argue any other potential ‘one-and-done’ is likely not going to do you as much good as you’d like to believe.
    Great teams are anchored by a top point guard and premier middle man. Take a look at Maryland , Kansas…and nearly any top team. All have seasoned and highly skilled point guards with highly skilled premier guys in the middle. We had those ingredients ….ready to explode. Had Zeller stayed one or two more seasons to play with Yogi and the ample remaining roster (Zeisloft, Bryant, Blackmon, Beilfeldt, Vonleh, Remy, etc), we’d still .probably be with Tom Crean…because he’d be a Final Four coach for the first time since Wade and we’d have two more banners.

    Don’t get me wrong, Crean is not a very good coach….but he is also a victim of bad luck and circumstance. He has Indiana back to Final Fours if Zeller stays to play with a quickly maturing point guard like Yogi was becoming. Yogi was so much better by his senior year….Matched with other pieces and Zeller and Tom Crean is a legend.

  22. Somebody may still look like the clapping fool down in Georgia…but had Zeller stayed and truly adhered to all the promises ‘The Movement” was selling the Hoosier fan base to bring Indiana back to elite stages come hell or high water, Tom Crean would have fooled us all.

    You don’t always have to be a good coach to have extremely good fortune. Assistants can help a lot of these numbskulls….But what any coach must have is luck, commitment , kids who love to back up their chest-thumping …and will do anything for the once-in-a-lifetime chance to be left standing with teammates when all the rest who were in your pathway have fallen.

    1. H4H,
      I think there are a combination of things which have gone wrong over the last 25 years to bring IUBB to the current state we see it in. Not the least of which would be the dividing of Hoosier Nation over the termination of RMK. Ancient history aside, the 21st century version of IUBB has been far too inconsistent compared to the prior 30 years. Reminds me a little bit of the years between the waning McCracken era and the RMK era.

      As for RL’s shooting, it would never have been great, but could have been better. His injury did occur early in the year in practice before the Duke game. As for the current team, you add the combination of poor shooting to a lack of upperclassmen leadership and you have the answer to the road woes. The one thing which will carry a team through a difficult road schedule is stellar play from the upperclassmen. Unfortunately, the 2 upperclassmen potential shooters are streaky at best, which explains virtually everything else. They go cold on the road and the rest is history.

      1. I guess I thought the injury came later because he didn’t really reveal the pain/injury until much later.
        Nonetheless, I think his shooting percentages in high school were nothing to write home about. He was billed as a very versatile player and a natural “scorer.”

        Sounds like he’s still being nagged by injuries ….Some guys are just more prone, I suppose (see Michael Penix)….or just have unfortunate luck.

        Would have loved to have seen Romeo stay in college and grow into a true Hoosier, statewide, legend. So much pressure on these kids to get rich quick …and from all the $$$ enticements of the NBA…(something Knight didn’t have to deal at the level of magnitude and influence of the current era of college hoops).

  23. Seems as though IU basketball is scientifically analyzed more than did the character (Fred McMurray) experiments in the Absent Minded Professor and Son of Flubber back in the 1960’s.
    One could argue that everything did turn out well in those Disney movies.
    Part of the high paying job of coaches is to recruit and develop shooters (actually the shooter is to develop himself (Rick Mount and Steve Alford (shooting mechanics were already in place)…though that’s wrong because in Alford’s case Knight taught and enforced a whole offense that Alford had to continually move, run, cut with a team of screening players doing the same. At some schools and in a different team of players Alford may have become a worse/not as good a shooter than when he was in high school. The same could have been true for Mount). That’s if both, Mount and Alford played for stagnant non productive, lazy player offenses. Knight didn’t allow that and though some may think crazy Knight TAUGHT/TEACHER/GENIUS PROFESSOR demanded the motion offense and players were his experiments to prove results.
    There’s really nothing to say. Silence for a couple more years. However, in terms of high level wins and losses not much is happening fast.

    1. I don’t disagree with your assessments t,

      I might add that both Mount and Alford came out of a time when Indiana High School basketball was a far better product than it is today. Both participated in the single class tournament and both were taught excellent fundamental basketball from a young age through high school. They also came from an age when good shooting, both in play and at the FT line, were emphasized.

    2. You nailed something above there, t….

      Alford had to continually move, run, cut with a team of screening players doing the same. At some schools and in a different team of players Alford may have become a worse/not as good a shooter than when he was in high school. The same could have been true for Mount). That’s if both, Mount and Alford played for stagnant non productive, lazy player offenses.

      Does Wittman function as well without an Isiah…? Does an Alford function as well without a Smart?

      And that’s, essentially, my argument: “Shooters” are only as strong as the abilities of those teaching and running the offense. And much of that teaching and running comes via the orchestration of a highly skilled leader at point guard. To claim a team is simply a bunch of “bad” shooters without fully examining what’s going on at point guard and how well the rest of the pieces run an offense, is acting like basketball is a game of ‘horse.’ We don’t have anywhere near the point guard playing on teams like Kansas, Maryland, MSU, Michigan, Illinois….just to name a handful. Nearly every top team atop every conference in their respective standings has a standout point guard.
      I believe the shooting woes have a lot to do with our limitations at point guard….(and some of it may be on Archie’s limitations as a top offensive mind).

      Confidence is playing into this as well….
      And we keep looking to the guards as the total shooting problem. Again, examine the teams being dominant this year. Many of those teams have prominent bigs and post players with a very strong ability to step out and drain deep jump shots and triples. Our shooting struggles shouldn’t be a “blame the backcourt” only thing. Jackson-Davis and Brunk are not very good moved outside five feet of the rim. Obviously, Davis has way better inside moves, but it’s not complemented by an ability to take his game 10 feet and beyond. A big with those abilities can take some pressure off your backcourt. Hunter has shown some ability to drain deep shots, but that’s really about it as far as what we have in size shooting a long ball. And Hunter would also benefit from far stronger point guard play.

  24. In Knight’s heyday reasons that many including myself became Knight basketball followers was because the
    1. well known defense his teams implemented 2. Even when IU lacked great shooters IU ran the motion offense that IU usually won games by shooting high percentages in there offense (though once in a while challenged by zones).
    Plus Knight was a very creative. Example: using Brian Sloan to do nothing except set screens for a shooter (that allowed shooter more confident/comfortable open shots that was practiced prior as a game strategy = result IU win. Example before shot clock: To me the excitement of IU holding the ball on offense (passing, cutting, screening, dribbling etc) and would not even take a shot unless fouled or sometimes a layup with a 1 to 3 point lead with 5 minuets to go in game.
    That’s one of the reasons the shot clock became a part of the game. Those Knight type teams of high % shots plus inside games was one reason for the 3 point shot.
    After 3 point rule that Knight said he didn’t like (nor did I nor did I like shot clock. I liked to watch the stall) was made a part of game what does Knight do? 1. Goes to junior colleges and recruits a couple players 2. WINS A NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP

  25. think. I know about they Mount, Alford and others came from a different time. However, don’t ignore the fact that on the wrong team for them things may have been very different as in not getting good shots or offenses that allowed them to self actualize or shine ado what they did. There are many examples like that. One that comes to mind is Larry Bird at ISU. The stars aligned right for him as more of a player/coach that he was allowed to be on the floor in college that transitioned into professional basketball.

  26. Though smaller schools success is exciting and a lot of fun and sometimes dreams do come true…if Indiana State during Bird years (there are many examples in both basketball and football and all sports really) played in Big Ten Indiana State would have not been undefeated nor been in March Madness tournament in 79.

    1. I believe we are finding out just how much ‘t’ understands the game of basketball…All those recent comments are excellent. Great historical perspective…and great analysis with regard to how “offense” creates better shooting and better percentages.

      I realize we all know Archie is an upgrade….but there was rarely a better fit between the sorts of players Indiana high schools have produced and Bob Knight. He took kids already built of grit and high level understanding of the X’s and O’s to an even higher level. Brilliant offense can make decent shooters look pretty damn marvelous….and make great shooters legendary.

      I willing to give Archie a couple more years….A flashy point guard will tell us a lot. We’ll soon find out if Archie’s offensive mind..and offensive designs blossom with a standout in orchestrating and running the offense. I think it’s going to help tremendously. But we should also keep in mind Jackson-Davis has the potential to get much better….Would love to see him get more confidence from 15 feet and beyond. It would help open things up….and give some lanes for our guards.

  27. On another topic, I wonder if B10 schools are looking at contingency plans for corona virus? I would hesitate purchasing any kind of large gathering tickets at this point.

    Jon or Jeremy, heard anything about IU addressing this?

  28. My thinking outside of minor adjustments it will be addressed not just big ten but all schools after all tournaments post season. Hold attention down to minimum. To much money involved. In addition what can be done? Go on and live life and take common sense precautions. Hope for the best.

  29. You know what we haven’t discussed in a while that has no whatsoever relevance anymore?

    The Tom Crean era.

    Would love everyone’s thoughts.

  30. I’m so convinced there isn’t a wolf, that I walk around with tri tip hanging from my packpocket.

  31. DD, you wrote, “you do realize that you’ve been predicting downturns in recruiting…….” That’s completely false. I have no idea where you came up with that, but you’re wrong. Discussing potential scenarios is a lot different than predicting a downturn.

    “Allen is turning out the best recruiting classes in Indiana football history,…. ” Yes, I agree and I have stated that many times. Allen’s doing a great job recruiting. Several times on this site I’ve pointed out the irony that a defensive coach has been a far better recruiter of QBs than his predecessor, who was thought to be a “Quarterback guru”. I have not criticized Allen’s recruiting. In fact, I’ve defended him against those who were unhappy with the ranking of the 2020 class.

    “You keep saying Archie can’t recruit,” I never said that, DD. What I said was that Archie’s has not signed enough of the right talent. Operative word is ENOUGH. And that is self evident. The facts are that the majority (not all, but the majority) of Archie’s top recruiting targets over the last three recruiting classes rejected IU’s offer and signed with schools that don’t have the rich BB tradition or facilities that IU enjoys. Those are the facts. Sorry if you don’t like to read them.

    “yet he’s getting the best players in Indiana.” I agree and I’ve said so many times on this site. The last three recruiting classes (including 2020), Archie has signed the best HS BB player in the state. And depending on whether Lander reclassifies or not, that could be four consecutive recruiting classes. And that’s great, but is it good enough? So far, it hasn’t been. As good as TJD is (and I think he’s excellent), he can’t carry the team by himself or prevent IU from producing its third mediocre season under Archie. After TJD, I’m not super impressed with any of Archie’s other recruits.

    I am convinced that next year’s roster, with or without Lander, will be much better than this year’s roster. One of the freshman has to be a better shooter. But only time will tell whether it will be good enough to win more than 20 games and compete for the Big Ten Championship. Those should be the expectations for an IU Men’s BB coach in his fourth season on the job.

    If you guys are going to take shots at me, at least represent my previous statements accurately. DD, you were way off base this time.

  32. H4h. Thanks for the acknowledgment.
    And think about all the motion and the opponents defense getting hit by good solid screens neutralizing their physicality a little affects the opponents offense. Gets in their heads a little As in; something to deal with, fatigue, a little discomfort, etc.

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