IU falls to Wisconsin, 60-56

In the regular-season finale, the Hoosiers’ search for a punctuation mark came up empty.

Justin Smith’s lay-in angled off the backboard poorly. Race Thompson’s attempt at a stick-back dunk clanked off the rim. Devonte Green’s runner in the lane fell well short.

Possession after possession, a game Indiana led by all but three minutes in the first half, and all but four in the second, just slipped away. A sixth home win over a ranked opponent wasn’t landing versus No. 24 Wisconsin, as IU’s visitor clinched its share of a Big Ten title with a 60-56 win.

This bullet point on the Hoosiers’ NCAA tournament resume was too hastily written, too imperfect to take them completely off the bubble heading into next week’s Big Ten tournament. But there wasn’t much to say once it was over, other than Wisconsin hit shots and IU didn’t.

“Sometimes things don’t bounce your way, and basketball is a game of momentum and a game of runs,” said senior Devonte Green, who scored all of his team-high 16 points in the first half. He was the only IU player in double figures.

“Their run was just a little bit bigger than our run.”

At the same time, the Hoosiers (19-12, 9-11 Big Ten) came out of Saturday’s contest expressing some level of confidence in their NCAA resume. IU coach Archie Miller was comparing bracketologists’ predictions to childish entertainment from “Sesame Street.” He expected his team’s nine Quad 1 and Quad 2 wins to be enough.

Saturday, the Hoosiers just weren’t sharp enough down the stretch to beat the Badgers. They hit just 14-of-43 on their 2-point shot attempts. Of IU’s final 14 shots, only one went in, a 3-pointer from junior Al Durham to cut Wisconsin’s lead to 56-54 with 55 seconds left.

What the Hoosiers did well in the first 30 minutes — when they led by nine points, 46-37 — just didn’t carry over to the final 10. Wisconsin (21-10, 14-6) scored 10 of its 14 second-chance points in that final stretch, including a three-point play from forward Micah Potter to tie it at 51-all and a 3 from guard Brad Davison to pull ahead.

After Durham’s 3 to pull the Hoosiers within two points, a putback by Nate Reuvers upped the Badgers’ lead to four with just 21 ticks left on the clock.

“Rebounds. We got to make sure we come up with those rebounds,” Durham said. “They don’t get these second shots, they don’t hit those 3s. Just rebounding and play harder. I feel like we played hard but just little things, little assignments we have to make sure we don’t slip up on and come out with a win.”

One slip-up that may have hurt the Hoosiers mightily came in the first half, when Green’s left foot landed on a defender’s following a shot. It tweaked his ankle, but the guard’s adrenaline was flowing so much, he didn’t feel it immediately. It wasn’t until after halftime — after Green electrified the Hoosiers with a half’s worth of swished 3s and well-aimed jumpers — that the effects set in.

“You go to halftime and you’re sitting for a little bit, and second half I really started to feel it,” Green said. “Nothing serious. I’ll be OK.”

IU just didn’t have enough offensively without Green at full strength. Freshman Trayce Jackson-Davis didn’t score his first points until the 15:15 mark in the second half, and he finished 2-of-8 from the field for six points and eight boards.

Thompson pulled down 11 rebounds to go with seven points in 24 minutes, but most of his points came via a 5-of-6 effort at the foul line. He shot just 1-of-5 from the floor.

“I thought Race Thompson in the second half played with unbelievable authority and he got it in,” Miller said. “Everything else, for us, was a little bit soft around the rim.”

Miller gave the Badgers credit, especially the length of Potter and Reuvers for making the Hoosiers’ life more difficult inside. But the Hoosiers had their chances.

They just couldn’t go nine minutes in a half without getting a shot to go down.

“I don’t know what you guys want me to tell you inside,” Miller said. “There’s no magic wand to score on 6-10 or 6-11. You have to score the ball a couple times.”

Even without the win, Miller was quick to express confidence in his team postgame. While the seniors Green and De’Ron Davis were being honored, the third-year coach took the mic and told the crowd “We’re not done.”

“I think this group,” Miller added, “has a chance to make a few runs.”

Saturday wasn’t the emphatic punctuation the Hoosiers wanted on the regular season. But they head into Wednesday’s opening round of the conference tournament far from beaten down.

One win away from reaching 20 — and just maybe the NCAA tournament — their ultimate goals are still within reach.

“I think there’s always room for improvement, so we can always get better, but (we) definitely finished better than we started and gradually got better over the season,” Green said. “I like our chances and where we’re at as a team.”

94 comments

  1. The better team won. The more poised team won. The more skilled team won. Terrible job down the stretch, which has been a theme all season.

    1. No disagreement on your assessment HH,

      I think CAM has done about as good as anyone could with hand he has been dealt the last 3 years. If they get a win or 2 in the tournament, I think we go dancing. However, we know the B1G tournament has historically been disappointing for IUBB since its inception. Whether or not the bubble get’s busted for IUBB will likely depend on how many upsets there are in the other conference tournaments this year.

      As for the future, it looks very bright with the incoming class, especially if KL is able to reclassify. From what I have seen of the 3 already on board, the IUBB talent level will take a quantum leap upwards next year. Obviously, the incoming freshman will take a while to find their footing but I have no doubt they will all do well. The little information I have been able to see on Geronimo is he may be a hidden gem. Sure hope so as I think both Leal and Galloway will be solid 4 year guys. The addition of Ladner, I believe, makes a good recruiting class into a great one.

  2. This game was this season in nutshell. Flashes of toughness, great execution, followed by long stretches of garbage, capitulation, sulking and lack of focus.

    The lack of leadership this year is directly tied to this. There’s no one of the roster, who when things starting going bad, they rally everyone together and halt these streaks by just being tough. Basketball is a really fun game when the shots are falling, but what do you do when you have a team like Wisconsin, who keeps you off balance all game. They don’t have the horses, but they have the toughness.

    Just getting frustrating to see AH just turned into a place where opposing teams can just come in and impose their will. This is how Wisconsin plays. They get you to submit. We fell apart and submitted.

    Should have won this game.

    Should have won Arkansas.

    Should have won Maryland.

    All of these games at home. All of those teams turned up the gas at the end and the Hoosiers wilted.

    There’s been some discussion about Indiana actually making a run in the tournament. LOL. Sorry. We’ve put together one complete game all year and that was vs FSU ages ago. This team is only consistent with one thing: their inconsistency. They just don’t have the leadership this year to get through anything.

    Really getting tired of losing at home.

    1. I’ll admit…I am delusional. I only make those wild predictions of deep runs because I wanted to believe Archie brought some spine to our basketball. He has not. It’s as weak as ever. Our fans are terrible as well. They can’t stay at a loud pitch for more than a couple possessions…Take a look around at the leading teams in this conference…Their fans stay loud throughout a contest. Entitled players. Entitled coach. Entitled fans. Entitled sky boxes…for the those who chose to ruin Assembly Hall and turn the entire program into a reunion and museum hall for people who think they are “it.” What “it” is….is a disgrace. And it may be gone for good.

      1. HH, I can’t agree more. When I listened to Archie Miller respond to a question about rotations earlier in the week I thought, boy this isn’t a participation award. As Coach Miller continued he said we do things by committee. Socialism does not work. The world works on merit. The best 5 who show up to practice and give you an opportunity to win play the game. This is how it is. It’s how everything functions except IU basketball. Too much flash and promotion, too much entitlement not enough substance.

    2. & to your point, IF IF IF we’d have kept those 3 key games you note on our side, we’d be 22-8 & things wouldn’t seem all that bad at all. As inconsistent & inept has been at times, we are really just 1 key player (a 40% 3 pt shooter) away from being relevant.

  3. Oh, and that locks Indiana up for an 11th place finish in the B1G.

    The early season projections had the Hoosiers 10th. I thought we were underrated and would surprise in the B1G this year. Oops. Wrong again. Managed to actually finish worse than expected.

    Awful season.

    We’ll eek into the tournament as long as we don’t get embarrassed in our Wed game in the B1G. That’s right, we’re playing on Wed. The carp round of the tournament. Bottom-feeders.

  4. Archie terribly out-coached. I get it …It was senior day. Well, it doesn’t feel so hot now. Not the right starting lineup …and he rode that lineup far too long.

    Had Archie pounded it inside in the first half, we likely get the Badgers in far earlier trouble. Letting the seniors have their big day took Trayce completely out of the flow. The game was lost strategically very early.

    I was merely hoping we could hang on….but nobody on the team had the rhythm or confidence to step-up because of the first half decisions.

    We don’t deserve a trip to March Madness. Go Purdue….Hope the Doyel-oirs are the team responsible for knocking us out….seeing how the discussion of whatever the eff Purdue and Mitch Daniels does seems so important on football threads. And people were irate over Bobby making out with Comb-over Gene? Hell, we’ve got more Purdue ass-kissers on here than pigs make bacon.

    Something happened to Indiana….Wisconsin kids are so much tougher. Very sad day for this delusional Hoosier fan who believed things would change once we got rid of the charlatan. The problems are much deeper…There is an entitlement virus far worse than anything ever imagined…and a local hero boy coming to Bloomington will only breed more softness.

    I won’t single out any player because not a single one of them has a set in their jock. And once again, I saw a Hoosier laughing outside the huddle in the final timeout as our ass is handed to us. Something is deeply, deeply wrong at Indiana.

  5. DD

    Best comments ever and sum up the season perfectly. This was a flawed team that was also inconsistent. Ready to turn the page on this season.

  6. These sort of home bitch-slappings never happened on Kelvin Sampson’s watch….Great, our entitled pansies go to class. In all honesty, I could care less if they go to class. Play like you care when you’re with a teammate. Make the court your kingdom.
    The education system in this country is so effing broken and favorable for the entitled, why give a crap anyway if a jock who was once living out of a car is going to class? At least he defended the name on the jersey for 40 minutes. Never saw a Sampson kid giggling in a timeout huddle at the end of game when our ass had been handed to us. Pathetic.

  7. Lack of leadership both on the floor and the sidelines cost us this game. I was there. When we took the floor to start the second half, I new we were done. I starting counting the consecutive missed shots in warm-ups. We were just throwing shots up. Nobody was working on anything. Nobody was trying to get the team fired up. It was a joke. They acted like they could care less about being there. Coaching wasn’t much better. When you only have a few fouls with under 5 minutes, wouldn’t you tell your team to be really aggressive defensively??? If you bump a guy so what. Don’t let them drive in for lay-ups. Foul if you get beat. Hard to get them into the 1 and 1 at the end of the game, with only 4 fouls with 9 seconds left. That is on the coaches. My family has been season ticket holders since 1972. Walking out after losing again and another dismal season, we agreed this is the end. Its just not fun anymore.

  8. Double Down: whether you like or dislike him; IU needs a personality like Brad Davison. We didn’t have a “personified bulldog”

  9. Lastly, thanks Fred. You da man. No longer do we just have one major sports program the laughing stock of the BigTen. Now we have a pair. Plan another reunion. Have a Cody and Vic Day. Maybe some karaoke..? Paint the tunnels pink and bring lots of candles. Of course, feed the Ruth’s Chris steaks and the expensive cake to those in the sky boxes.
    But excellent job….I actually think we should put another star on those Hoosier basketball shorts for you….Put it near the crack about halfway down…(or a little lower to represent where we rate on national stages of basketball relevance).

  10. Thanks for the assessment, Kramer. Tickets on one.iu.edu were $10, so there’s really no excuse for my not going except that, for me, it’s not fun to watch Archie yell at his players and the refs (and the “nasty fans” at away games).

    I made the assessment early in the season that this bunch entered the Game like “factory workers going into their shift” and that has not changed all season, except that the palpable dis-like of the Players to the other Player and the Players to the Coach and Coaching Staff.

    It’s totally dysfunctional, and watching Devonte go off early, only to be frozen mid-game by his jealous “teammates” wondering “Why can’t I shoot now?” is indicative, as is Archie’s consistent mean-spiritedness throughout.

    Merged with the blatant homer calls, we at I.U. Basketball are officially a joke.

    I do not share any enthusiasm for the future, except that we sure won’t lose any players to the NBA this year…nobody has improved one jot from the beginning.

    I do think we might win a first round game in the Big Ten Tournament, and could quite possibly win the NIT!

  11. ….except that the palpable dis-like of the Players to the other Player and the Players to the Coach and Coaching Staff has become more clearly evident.

  12. Definitely didn’t think I’d see the day when Wisconsin gets to celebrate a Big Ten title by beating our 11th-place butt at home.

  13. I agree with DD, this was an awful season. And I think it’s over. I don’t see IU making any kind of a run and I don’t believe IU deserves to play in the NCAA Tournament. They lost too many games at home and finished 11th in the conference. I don’t care how tough the Big Ten is this year, that is unacceptable.

    This is the worst shooting IU team I have ever seen. Not only do they miss shots, they miss them badly. It’s not just bad 3-point shooting, it’s not just bad FT shooting, our bigs are terrible shooting in the paint. A 6’8″ forward three feet from the basket should be able to get the ball above the rim, to at least give it a chance. But the ball hits the bottom of the rim. 34% FG shooting on your home court! That’s laughable.

    I think next season is make or break for Archie at IU. He’ll be all out of excuses. IU fans will not tolerate losing so many games at home, especially in the manner in which they lose them. IU fans will not tolerate finishing 11th in the Big Ten or a regular season with less than 20 wins (especially with a soft non-conference schedule). I really hope Archie’s new recruits are the solution, but watching performances like today’s game do not fill me with optimism. I’m not sure 3 or 4 freshman, no matter how talented they are, can overcome the flaws and lack of shooting skills their older teammates have.

    1. Yes, next year will be the “up or down” year for Archie. Hopefully, Lander will join the other 3 true freshmen for a massive infusion of talent and energy. If a transfer does happen, then Archie must locate a 6’8-7’0 athlete with upside potential for the open scholarship. Lander will be great! Trayce will be greater! Jerome and Race should be very good. Justin and Al will be incrementally better. Rob should be All-B1G good. Armaan should have a huge improvement. Joey will be Joey, tough and an excellent worker. Coach them up, have a top 4 finish in the B1G, and a Sweet Sixteen in the NCAA, or bust!

      1. BP,
        Don’t sell the other 3 recruits short, especially JG. This has been a brutal 3 year stretch. I’m going to go out on a limb again and say I think CAM is going to prove to be a great coach in the long run. I was not sure early on if he would be up to the task with the roster he inherited followed by the unbelievably adverse set of health circumstances last season. Only a great coach could have done as well.

        I know this is going against the naysayer grain, but to think otherwise is to severely overestimate the caliber of roster CAM inherited. Couple that with virtually losing your entire first recruiting class for its first season due to health issues, and it becomes very clear. For all practical purposes, CAM has been coaching 2 freshman classes this year with a very weak set of upperclassmen. However, I believe the pain that has been endured this year will be rewarded with a much improved team next year which should challenge for the B1G and make a deep run in the tournament.

        This is not a “wait until next year,” but a frank assessment of the situation these last 3 years. We’ll know in 12 months whether or not I called it correctly. I know H4H keeps an unbelievable library of our statements to be brought out at the most opportune times, so I look forward to the results of my prognostication.

        1. I’ll give you a very “frank” assessment….We have too many HOT DOGS on this team!

          You’ve just been jested by the Jester of Chesterton.

  14. These players certainly do not play for their coach. I think the culture of Archie’s program has become toxic and I don’t think the cause is just two or three Crean recruits. I won’t be at all surprised if a couple players transfer this spring. Archie’s got some serious issues that he needs to address.

  15. HH, you’re initial post was perfect. This boiled down to experience & toughness. WI never let us run away, despite having many chances. I think they had 7 pts scored by 2nd chances in the last 4 min. That was THE difference. That & Trayce missing the front end of a 1 & 1 and WI drilling a shot on the other end. Key 4 pt swing there & when added to the 7 late 2nd chancers, it turns into an “L”.

    All that said, you gotta give it up to WI. They have a model program. They have what we used to have. Role players embracing their roles. 4 yr kids. A coach with a solid system that reloads more of the same type kids year in and year out. They’re tough & they’ve been there before.

    Let’s face it, although ahead, we were skating on thin ice for the last 25 min. Every IU fan felt it. Even the IU radio guys commented on it when we were up 5 late.

    We had PLENTY of chances & we blew them. They did the opposite when it mattered most.

    We have to win 2 in Indy to get in now. I fear we won’t & then a half hearted, disappointed effort in the NIT to add to my frustration.

  16. A.M. doesn’t have a lot to address. By golly gee whiz. Wisconsin played better than us down the stretch. I thought our guys competed. They were meaning Wisky or am I not allowed to say that. Wisconsin was a little more focused. We played well much of the season. Our guys really competed. Anyway l’ll be back for another season if they will have me. This contract stuff has really been good to me win or lose. Sure glad it wasn’t laced with incentives with a low base salary . That would be bad. My base salary is high and so it’s good win or lose. There will be plenty of opportunities after this gig. So, I just want to thank everybody. I’ll be just fine. Thanks again, if I don’t see you again, maybe after next season. My brother likes it out west. I don’t know. Gosh, there is just an ocean of opportunities for a guy like me. Heck, I could even take a year off if I wanted and go to an NBA staff, or staff at another university or head coach at a mid major. Hey, I was talking to Billy Lynch the other day and Depauw seems to be a good match for him. Anyway thanks millions, IU.

    1. Gee Arch, you’re probably right. Heck you can always tread water wherever your underachieving brother is, drop down to Raleigh, go back to PA, or heck, maybe your old gig at Dayton, likely a 1st seed in the tournament could use you to clean up the gym after practices. With all the $ you stole from Bloomington you’re really set for life…gollleee.

  17. TO HELL WITH ALL OF YOU “SO CALLED FANS”….Wisconsin had older, stronger players against 1 true freshman and 2 red shirt freshmen. A bunch of 22 y/o players against a group of 19 y/o players. that’s like high school freshmen against high school seniors. Sometimes a Bigger ,heavier, stronger opponent beats down a more youthful player. AM finally had a healthy team but that doesn’t mean they will win against a team that puts a Junior , a senior, 2 red-shirt juniors and a grad student on the floor. As my dad told me ” a good big man will beat a good little man every time” and case in Point: Stanley Ketchel aka the Michigan Assassin Middle weight boxing champ took on Jack Johnson the heavyweight champ. Ketchel knockdown Johnson. Johnson got up off the mat and promptly knocked out 2 of Ketchel’s teeth. What we wanted and hoped for was NOT in the “reality cards” today

    1. TJ: Or, Billy Conn at 169lbs, ahead in points unable to KO Joe Louis, then getting KO’d himself. His son in Pittsburgh and I are friends. Our dads fought in England prior to the invasion in USO shows with Bill Tilden and Chic Harbert (golf).
      As it pertains to IU or any program, apparently they haven’t properly preparred for the Big 10 schedule with the right personnel. That huge, muscular center at Illinois is a ‘freshman’. My God, he’s bigger, stronger and more buff than LeBron was after his 2nd yesr in the NBA.

  18. OK. How about 12 other games? Losses.
    About 10 pre-conference games were against high school teams where many of those 19 wins came from. So IU had about a dozen maybe a bakers dozen legitimate wins.

  19. Plus Arch is at the bottom of B1G coaches. Never got team to over achieve or even play to potential. His resume is bad at IU. It just is. He just doesn’t give good vibe that he is steering the ship in the right direction. It’s kind of taking on water.

  20. Who do we face in the Big 10 Tournament? If it’s Nebraska, I’m predicting a win, but I don’t think we can beat Northwestern.

    And I’ll be Very Surprised if we see # 4 back next year. He looks to me like he hates the Coaching Staff (and I don’t blame him one bit). In fact, the entire team looks like it loaths the entire bunch of loud-mouthed screamers on the Coaching Staff. This team self-destructed right in front of our eyes in the last minutes of the game, with complete one-on-one moves made by players without any semblance of team effort.

    And THAT is the Coach’s fault.

    You’re an all right person, H4h, to admit your error in prediction. And your analysis is correct and on the mark, as always.

    In fact, I enjoy reading this blog site for everyone’s analysis. Thanks everyone!

  21. For those of you that want Tom Crean to return ; in his 2 years at Georgia he is 11-21 first years and this year 15-15 WITH the potentially #1 NBA pick. Perhaps Archie should go to Africa or Jamaica or Eastern Europe to recruit those Man Mountains that can barely speak English and teach them to JUST stand in the lane. Crean would never have recruited the 2 classes with a third coming in that Archie has. If the players cant shoot then blame the high school coaches for that. You are asking a college coach to change bad Habits that a recruit started forming in Jr High; hell the Celtics are taking EXTRA time to reteach Romeo how to shoot. The existence of a Rick Mount or Jimmy Rayl or Steve Alford don’t exist in Indiana any longer; WHY? perhaps the dissolution of the classless tournament may partially be to blame, but I tend to think there is a deterioration of Desire to BE a “good shooter”. Someone needs to tell these grade school and middle school players that to be a GOOD SHOOTER takes practice…it just doesn’t happen when you tie on the gym shoes.

  22. I’m with you TJ…overachievement would’ve been winning this game today. WI is simply better than we are from top to bottom. They have guys who can hit clutch shots and FTs. Clearly, we don’t. And in the spirit of that, if we had just 1 guard who we could count on getting 8 -10 pts/game CONSISTENTLY think what could have been or could be. We have TJD & a bunch of guys who can go off every now & then, but the standard deviation is far too erratic to sustain performance.

    Our D & rebounding are solid. (Ironic that the latter is what beat us down the stretch.) But last time I checked to win you need more points than your opponents.

  23. It’s the last game of the year. They aren’t Freshmen anymore. At the end of the season, did anyone really get better from the beginning of the year. I look at our seniors, juniors, and sophomores. Name one player that is better now, then when they arrived in Btown. I thought Cook Hall was open 24/7. Does anyone on this team work on a jump short or a free throw??? If Archie gets lucky on this incoming class, we are still at least 3 years away from being truly competitive. Who’s going to lead this team next year?? Just watching the huddle at time-outs and body language on the bench, I don’t think this team really likes each other or truly gives a crap. Archie better be looking for more players, because I think a lot more than the 2 seniors will be gone next year.

    1. Kramer I refer to them as Freshmen because that’s the level of SCHOOL they are in ; the other point you missed as FRESHMEN they don’t have the BODY development to BATTLE with 22 and 23 year old. For proof ,look how tired TJD AND Race was at end of game battling the boards against WIS. Big men it was BOYS vs MEN and seasoning of the body is what is needed . Experience wise they are no longer “freshmen” but they are still boys going against men. I mean TJD’s dad was NBA player but you can give him all the teaching in the world on how to maneuver in the paint but his dad cant add muscle weight or bulk any faster than NATURE will allow.

    2. Justin Smith is a much better player today than in his freshman year: #2 in scoring, and in rebounds. Check out his blocking out to help Al on his drive to the hoop in the last seconds, where Al missed the shot but hit the 2 FT’s to make it IU down 2 with 11 seconds. Al also is much better today than as a freshman. Neither is a great college player. But each is good.

  24. I’m glad most of you have acknowledged what I was talking about 2 months ago. I will give CAM credit re playing much better defense, scrappier and better rebounding. That said, this has to be one of the worst shooting teams in the country. For those of you that still think that IU would beat Dayton because they play a tougher schedule….ha ha ha.
    Fan support? For a team of this caliber, most schools wouldn’t draw 7 thousand vs 17. I’m afraid they’ll keep Archie and this program will vascillate between mediocre to bad. Likely the new reality. Sad, but true.

    1. Beg to differ…”Fan support” isn’t support when 1/2 of 15,000 are zombies. Might as well put an inflatable doll in the seat.

      I’d rather have 3000 at the game who cared. IU fans are as weak of sauce as those putting on the uniform lately. Maybe they’re old and still overly mesmerized by their i-Phones..? Hell, I have no idea.

      There was more life at Kobe Bryant’s memorial than our fans bring to a Hoosier basketball game these days. Numbers in seats shouldn’t be allowed to be called “support.” Rip out the sky boxes and give 10,000 seats to campus squirrels. The sound of their nuts being dropped in the aisles will be louder than most our zombie crowd.

      1. HfH: I would suggest that knowledgeable fans will replace the ‘zombies’ when there’s something resembling a higher quality of product. Man, this level of basketball has been hard to watch, or as JMV said “unwatchable”. Fan support has as much to do with the quality of the product on the floor as the concession running out of hot dog relish.

  25. Sadly, TJ in Texas, that might just be the problem. Homers like me think the Indiana kids/talent of today is the same as yesteryear. Not from what I saw today…And you can’t use the ‘freshman’ or ‘sophomore’ excuse. You can’t teach toughness….You either have it, or you don’t. Nobody on this team has barely an ounce of toughness. They play afraid…They are rarely allowed to play in foul trouble. They are protected. They are indecisive. They take wild shots and then back away from taking wide-open looks. They don’t meet the intensity of an opponent or, at minimum, show a sign they’re willing to try and take up the challenge of playing a more veteran mentality. And some of our Hoosiers departing are as weak-minded as the day they first stepped on campus.

    I’m beginning to wonder if Indiana kids come to Indiana University feeling entitled because of how long we’ve been irrelevant…? Maybe that attracts a certain sort of personality? I thought I was going to love Joey Brunk because, possibly, that Butler DNA would rub off. Mistaken. He’s just as soft as the rest. He plays the game with zero chip on his shoulder….It’s like we have an entire team of Christian Watfords. Sure, there’s some talent….but I honestly don’t think they lose 10 minutes of sleep at night due to getting embarrassed at this game they’re supposed to love.
    Just give them all a hug…and tuck them in. Give them all blue ribbons (like our “improved” multi-class high school tournament encourages) and bedtime kisses. Get on our knees and beg them to come a play for Archie Bunker ….Label them as saviors and instruments of change before they’ve tied one shoelace.

    Nope…The problem was not lack of instate recruiting. It appeared to be the problem when we had a previous coach with many flaws who had abandoned the state of Indiana. But this team is plagued by the most damaging issue shared by every Crean team. Zero grit. Zero clutch. Zero togetherness. Zero leadership. Zero embracing of being an underdog. Zero fire when a back is against a wall.

    Watch Brad Underwood’s Illini team…It’s simply a different world. Indiana high school kids used to be tough (To a degree…They were made much tougher by Bobby Knight) .

    Sorry, gang…I was wrong on A. And I’m wrong on B. I’m wrong on a lot of things. Recruiting Indiana high school ballers isn’t an answer on its own. The problems are deeper and more complex….though, maybe, quite simple…and just complex to me.

    Crean was a better coach at Marquette? Archie was a better coach at Dayton? There is something in the minds of those who come to Bloomington that makes them believe they’ve already made it in life. That’s not an easy problem to fix. And it permeates from lowest assistant …to head coach…to every player putting on a jersey. Artificial swag. Gum chomping. Looking the part. Laughing in the huddle when getting your ass kicked. Faux Hoosiers.

    Did you ever have a kid laugh at you when attempting to guide or teach a lesson? Remember those troublemakers in school? Bad boys who think everything means nothing and life is just one cool ride to be cool. And then when they find out differently, they end up blogging too much.

    1. I would gladly take an entire team of Christian Watfords! And Indiana would be #1 in the B1G not #11!

  26. BRAD what you gonna do IF you fire Archie and Kids transfer out and you start ALL over with a new coach that will have to recruit to a school that wont give chance to succeed. IF I were a coach looking for work and THIS was the scenario..I wouldn’t apply without a “golden parachute” and then yo have a coach that doesn’t care about wins-losses or banners because HE’s SET for Life with his “parachute” You aren’t gonna drag Few, Holtman, Mack or Bennet away with this hiring/firing scene..then WHOMEVER you DO HIRE you are STILL looking for AT LEAST another 3 years to turn things around AGAIN. THINK if you were to fire Archie..you lose recruits (some) of them ,ability to recruit INSIDE Indiana is curtailed and EVERYTHING starts over. I can hear you then saying “I wish we could recruit Indiana because Ohio State and Louisville and Mich State ..and potentially Illinois is raping the state of talent.

  27. Kramer, good post, and I agree with most of it. But if you’re right and it takes “at least 3 years from being truly competitive”, Archie won’t be the coach when it happens. If IU BB has another season like this one (and the last two), Archie may not make it past next season. The excuses that have shielded him (Crean’s recruits, injury bug, etc.) during his first three seasons at IU are evaporating with every home loss. IU fans are not happy. We’ll have a new AD and a new President soon, and they won’t have any personal or professional “investment” in Archie. The AD new is not going to risk doing additional damage to IU BB’s brand or jeopardize his ability to build relationships with IU’s big donors, by protecting a coach whose teams are mediocre at best. I really want Archie to be successful, but my eyes are telling that what’s wrong with this program goes beyond a few Crean recruits.

  28. Hi Kramer,

    Thank you for your post, which I agree with in its entirety.

    I just watched Archie Miller’s post-game press conference. The guy seems under a lot of stress and is more like a Sales Rep, selling his product to be in the NCAA Tournament, than a Coach who can bond with his players. I think that is the major problem with this Program, and I will be stunned if the entire team returns next year. (Archie actually said that “some would criticize this team for being unable to win – a conference game- on the road.”) And I remember that we beat Nebraska. That ruined my prediction of NO wins on the road within Conference…I take no joy in making that prediction, by the way.

    Why on earth would anyone with talent come back to this dysfunction and a Coach who treats you like a machine to be screamed at and denigrated? But we’ll see…….

    On to Northwestern….or Nebraska. I’d prefer watching this team compete against Northwestern, and then it would be truly entertaining to watch a neutral court match-up against any team that was hosed by the referees in Simon Skojdt. After THAT, let’s hear Archie try to sell this product to the NCAA Committee!

  29. TJ, did you apply the same arguments three years ago when IU fired Crean? I find your statements above highly ironic.

    If you were IU’s AD or President, please describe the tipping point that would cause you to fire Archie. I’m not saying Archie should be fired. IMO, he deserves at least one more season. But your comments suggest that IU is stuck with him until he chooses to leave. UCLA fired a successful head coach last year and his replacement just won the PAC-12 regular season championship for the first time in many years. Memphis has a new coach and he signed the highest rated recruiting class in the country. As for the risk of players transferring, whose to say they won’t transfer if Archie remains the coach? As comments posted above suggest, several of Archie’s players don’t look real happy right now.

    Any proven head coach IU hires is going to demand a five year, fully guaranteed contract worth at least $3.5 million per year. So unless IU chooses the bargain basement approach and promotes one of Archie’s Assistants or hires a guy who has never been a D-1 head coach before, that’s just the price Universities pay to compete as big time college basketball programs.

    The right head coach wouldn’t lose a lot of players to transfer and could probably sustain or improve recruiting right out of the gate. And the right coach won’t need five years to turn IU BB around. Maybe Archie’s still the right guy and next year will be much better. But if his 2020/2021 team does not show significant improvement, the risk of keeping him could be bigger than the risk of moving on.

    1. Alford didn’t/doesn’t have a clue….He had the same problem Crean and Miller can’t seem to solve. He could never get a team to like each other or play with collective grit.

      Hell of shooter…Damn fine clutch shooter. High school legend. Terrible coach.

      “Successful” is proving you can do more than recruit…or discover latent phenoms who will one day (long after sucking up energy on college teams) they can get drafted and fit the NBA’s prototype of a “baller.” Success as a coach means you take talented rosters deep into March Madness (consult H4H’s “Conference Midwest Elite). One blip on the radar with D-Wade doesn’t cut it….If it does cut it, we might as well go after the Loyola of Chicago coach.

      Problems run deep…There’s institutional entitlement. Maybe it’s time to take down all the new bronze statues and all the museum glass? I think maybe it’s time to take down the banners as well. Fold them up and hide them quietly under the floorboards of McCracken where they will stay until Indiana looks like Indiana again.

      And please demolish the sky boxes after Freddie leaves….Put in more restrooms so I can take a beer pee where it used to be.

      Twice down the tubes to Purdue and manhandled both games against Wisconsin? I honestly don’t want to watch anymore Hoosier basketball. I don’t really care if the entire roster is gutted. I’m choking on the prima donna attitudes….Just watched that Merrill kid on Utah State play like Scott Skiles. Recruit Indiana? Overrated. Just go find some kids who don’t live as if Indiana owes them something. The way these guys chuck it in, they should all have their scholarships revoked. Ithink I’m starting to believe in paying college athletes….Start paying them so I can cut their pay to minimum wage.

  30. I was fired up about the hiring of CAM. I thought he was exactly what we needed. Unfortunately, this is year three and I’m sick of getting beat. Finishing 11th and playing on Wednesday of the Big Ten tournament doesn’t cut it.

  31. If you’re tired of WI kicking our ass, they return everyone but Pritzel next season & will be stacked with Sr. That’s what programs embracing 4 yr kids do. They make inexperienced teams look the part.

    I doubt we lose anyone of substance to transfer & the ‘best’ of those to leave would likely be Demezi. He hasn’t played since early Jan.

    And to all of this “nobody has gotten better” BS, nothing could be any more ridiculous. Here’s my list in order of most improvement;
    Race
    Hunter
    TJD
    Phinisee
    Durham

    The bottom 2 have played much, much better in the last month. They defend guards very well, attack the bucket & their shooting has improved.

    Lastly, H4H notes the laughing in the TO. The 2 guilty were Green & Demezi. We can do without both.

    1. And the same smirks and laughing attitude was on the sideline during a final timeout in our NIT loss last season. Show me any other college team where guys are chuckling in a timeout during the final moments of HOME game where they just were given an ass-kicking. Wish there was a Dr. Evil switch that opens the floor under the laughers…. To the fire pit! It’s not really a fire pit. Maybe a giant waste bin, a 20′ x 20′ x 20′ enclosure under McCracken now housing the complete ready-to-be-recycled supply of Bobby Knight’s Depends since moving back to Bloomington. There is one basket ball goal inside the waste bin…The only way out is to hit 20 free throws in succession while standing in the stench. Once you hit the free throws, some side doors open up leading you to the opposing team’s locker room.

  32. AWinAZ, I’ll agree that to say none of IU’s players has improved this season is incorrect, but I think it is fair to say that IU’s players have not improved nearly enough. Furthermore, they have not improved their consistency. You just can’t say a team that makes only 34% of their FG attempts and misses 13 of their last 14 shots playing an crucial game on their home court, in front of a highly supportive crowd, has improved to the extent necessary.

    I don’t know how players improve their shooting ability, but I’ll suggest that unless some of these guys improve their shooting skills during the off-season, they may be replaced by true freshman next season. This has to be the worst shooting team in IU BB’s history.

  33. Rock, Kramer, and Po…after reading your posts no one BUT Wooden would satisfy your desire for a coach. When you talk about “improvement” there is a certain amount accountability that falls on the shoulder of the player. I think we don’t see Demezi on the floor because he probably hit his “talent” ceiling in high school. As far as “Shooting” no one from the state has shot the ball worth crap since Eric Gordon. The reasons for the deterioration of shooting ability in this state :1) no private shooting practice. 2) the loss of the classless tourney where players from smaller schools could showcase their abilities (there is no motivation now since I get the feeling the players feel they are essentially ignored) The AAU tournaments (Peach Jam and such) the Weekend games on the city park courts where everyone mixed was good developing and testing grounds against more experienced players that came home . Those aforementioned areas have created , at best, mediocre shooters and possibly mediocre players. IF these recruits haven’t developed a sense of personal goal or purpose by time they get to IU ……good luck changing that mind set.

  34. The decline in shooting % is due to 3 factors.
    1. The 3 pt line
    2. The shot clock
    3. The internet

    1. The 3 pt line by its mere existence alters the proper shooting technique & what constitutes a good shot at an early age. Plus, it plays on Sportscenter a helluva lot more than a back cut layup or midrange 12 – 15 ft jumper, a lost art. I see kids in the 10U and 11U leagues trying to hit 3s in shoot-around! Plus, add in the line moving this year & its a proven fact that 3 pt % has gone down.

    Don’t agree? I dare send you to NBA stats. So many teams shoot more than half of their shot attempts from 3. And scoring % from 3 is > 50%.

    It’s a crime but it’s all true. One can not argue the work (force x distance) it takes to shoot from 22’9” than 15’. More work = more effort = more variability.

    2. The shot clock leads teams to chuck up bad shots. This is one of my biggest criticisms of this IU team. They aren’t good enough to get the shot they want in a crunch. At the same time they spend too much time running their sets. They seem to wait 15 seconds or more to look for a “good” shot off of their sets. And then when they don’t, they take poor shots they could get at 0:01 left in the shot clock anyway. This is why they are inconsistent. Their approach in itself is inconsistent.

    3. The internet…iPhones, Xbox, Instagram, etc…. ask yourselves how much time you spent shooting the ball in your youth on your closest outdoor hoop. Do you think that is more or less than kids today?

    Sure, there is AAU & club ball galore, but how much true practice time in the formative years is spent on shooting fundamentals. How many shoot in the snow or 15-20mph winds?

    Let’s face it, fundamentals are a lost art. And flash pays. When was the last player recruited for his defense? It all adds up to the decline in the game itself. Instead of migrating high school ball purity to college to the NBA, it is working backwards. Shot clocks and 3 pt lines at the AAU level??? Don’t you think that contributes to poor shooting technique & %?

    Why do you think Knight was against the 3 & the shot clock?!?! He was a purist, as am I.

    Just so happens that WI shoots the 3 better than 13 other teams in the Big Ten. Meanwhile ours has improved lately but our shooting, in general, sucks. And that is an artifact of simply taking bad shots with poor fundamental techniques formed at an early age.

    1. AWinAZ: Nice take on the general woes that have, in my opinion, made the ‘game’ in general, worse. As for other criticism’s of my comments, well, it’s pretty simple. I’m not suggesting anything different happen. There might be a more effective coach out there, but I’m not sure it would make much difference. The PROBLEM at IU is THIS, the players aren’t very good and for the most part, haven’t been for years. Not athletic, can’t create, definately can’t shoot. The coach seems to know this and comes across as ‘cavalier’ because the upside just isn’t realistic. These kids have about 100 other D1 schools they can go to. When McCracken and Knight were winning and recruiting (at least better than the recent past) Butler was in the HCC playing conference games against the likes of Hanover and Wabash. Most of these ‘directional’ schools didn’t have D1 programs. UCF is listed as the largest university in the U S. My late ex went there when it was a commuter school in downtown Orlando with no sports and 3,000 enrollees. Let me draw your attention to Roy Williams and Chapel Hill. Pretty much the same thing. Embarrassing.
      For those of you worrying about getting into the ‘big dance’ or playing on Wednesday at Indy, who cares? It’s over this year. Let’s hope that it gets better next year.

    2. BRAVO!!! TJ and AZ, envious of everything you stated and more so how you stated it. 1st I’ll say as I believed before the game IU is still Big Dance bound after the game. You 2 smashed the head on the nail. I would add only 1 thought. I see lots of positive improvement in performance the last 5-6 weeks. Lots. Near every game came down to IU in position to have a chance at winning and in the loses the spread was not large. Imagine the development and improvement lost with all the injuries inflicted on the team last year. The lost time those injuries created is a perishable commodity.
      I still set firmly as a supporter of Coach Miller. Again great thoughts you both strongly articulated.

  35. Damezi should replace Sneezy as one of the Seven Dwarfs.

    Hoosier Challenge…? Think of each ‘Dwarf’ that best reminds you of a specific Hoosier.

    Damezi = Sneezy (Has a terrible allergy to making buckets. Laughing can slightly delay the onset of a sneeze)
    Green = Happy (to be starting..Happy to be gunning…Just Happy to be on TV)
    Phinisee = Bashful (Even too much so to play at Purdue)
    Brunk = Doc (Plans on staying at IU until he completes his doctorate in ‘Slow and White’…not to be confused with Snow White)
    Smith = Sleepy (while closing out on shooters..and pretty much always. Never to be confused with Sleepy Floyd)
    Durham = Dopey (still hasn’t learned to ‘whistle while he works’ too much of the shot clock)
    Trayce Jackson-Davis = Grumpy (because he came to waste his talent on the rest of these dwarfs).

  36. AWinAZ, I don’t disagree with you about 3-point shooting, but that’s just part of IU’s shooting problem. IU can’t make FTs and our big men suck scoring in the paint. 34% of the FG attempts made? Those were shots well inside the 3-point line, and most were in the paint. Our best player scored six points today. We missed 13 of our last 14 shots……on our home court. The internet, the shot clock and the 3-point line had nothing to do with that mess.

    1. Podunk, my point is that technique is not pure with these kids and it shows at the line. Take TJD, our best player, for example. His FT stroke is all arms and then wrist at the end. No legs at all. It is technique that should and can be improved. It’s smooth, but needs more work. Brunk is even worse because he shoots the ball with a wrist hitch after his legs have extended already. Green, arguably our best outside shooter, has too much arc on his shot & is just average at the line. The 4 mid range shots he missed in the last 10 min. all missed short & didn’t have enough forward roll on impact because the ball is coming more downward than forward. Again, weak technique.

      The shots we’ve missed around the rim lately are somewhat poetic justice. We’ve seen a lot of garbage fall for us this year, and what I mean by that is many have hit the rim 3 or 4 times before they went down. Especially from Brunk. I don’t think the kid can put in a shot that doesn’t hit the rim at least once or even twice. Nothing off the board and straight through the hoop. TJD’s long looping hook shots are mediocre shots. He gets a lot of his mileage on put backs but those dried up yesterday as WI bigs were bumping him outward. Hence they also fell short because his momentum was more backward. If we’d have fed the post in the 1H they would’ve been in plenty of foul trouble. And note the bogus foul on TJD with 4 min. left in the 1H didn’t help that cause any. We fell in love with Green’s 1H and had no offensive rhythm outside of that.

      BTW, Durham leads the team in 3 pt. FG%. Only he and Green shot > 35% from 3, but that is an improvement over where Durham was last year.

      In the off season, I think Durham’s stroke improves further along with Hunter, Phinisee and Franklin’s.

      Again all, reference my post on the issues with the offense. Too much running down the shot clock in our sets and then having to rush a shot to beat the clock. It’s a real problem. That’s why Archie wants to push the ball and goes nuts at times on the sidelines. We take so many bad shots early in possessions.

      1. If Archie wants to “push the ball,” he ought to teach his guard to push a little faster and a little harder when you’re down five points with 30 seconds to go.

        Don’t know how many games I’ve watched where our guards have zero sense of urgency(or, possibly not the skills to play with urgency) when we are behind very late in the game…with a chance to still win.

        If a coach like Izzo witnessed his guard coming up the court like a cattle grazing with only 1/2 minute to go in a tight game with a two possession deficit, he’d jump out of his skin.

        Kids shouldn’t be coming to Indiana with huge mechanics in their shooting strokes needing fixed. That wasn’t going to be solved with Jeremiah Rivers, Stan Robinson, Tom Pritchard …and the dozens of other bricklayers we’ve seen come through a school which should have a “NO BRICKLAYER SOLICITING’ signs posted at the doors of Assembly. You should have the fundamentals in a shooting stroke by your sophomore year in high school. If not, don’t come to Indiana.

        You need 10 seconds to watch ‘Sneezy’ Damezi’s stroke to know he’ll forever be plagued by inconsistency. So why in the hell was he recruited? Don’t we have better things to do with our coaching time than to reteach technique that should have been learned and perfected in grade school? Maybe spend 10 minutes watching their shooting stroke before offering a scholarship? Hells bells, this is Indiana. Now bricklayers from the SEC shoot the ball with better technique than Hoosiers?

        The real issues still go deeper than shooting form and free throw performance. There’s not a kid on a roster who’d survive one more practice if Bob Knight knew of laughing and snickering in the huddle of a game given away ….Next time put a big red bow on the game and have one of the gigglers put on a fat smile and just hand an empty box to Greg Gard as a symbolic gesture of where we keep our testicles.

        And the grad transfer we found from St. Mary’s…? Nothing wrong with Fitzner’s stroke…He just had zero moxie. Couldn’t hit the side of the widest Indiana barn when the shot meant something. Whatever happened to ‘Big Shot’ Hoosiers?
        Everyday they put on a Hoosier uniform it’s like ‘Casual Fridays’….They should wear faded candy stripes.

  37. I’ve thought about the comments thus far and have come to a conclusion. The real problem is not the product on the floor, but rather, the low BBIQ found in Hoosier Nation and on most of the posting boards.

    So, let’s fire CAM. That is about as illogical a thought as can be found. First, you don’t have KL signed yet, think he will still come? Second, you may lose JG even though he has signed. Think the portal wouldn’t be an option? His stock has skyrocketed this year. You have to remember something, these players are coming to IU because of CAM and his recruiting efforts. Don’t forget TJD is part of that equation.

    The lack of critical thinking skills in Hoosier Nation is beyond ridiculous. Archie is coaching a very young team experience wise without any upperclassmen leadership. With the exception of DD, non of the 5 upperclassmen (counting JB) were high level recruits which means a talent vacuum on top of poor leadership skills. The talent and leadership skills for this team are found in the underclassmen and incoming recruits. Anyone who doesn’t think the incoming freshman class this fall doesn’t have leadership skills on steroids haven’t paid any attention their HS careers.

    As, I said, the real problem is Hoosier Nation. Always has been, and still is.

  38. Just stop…Your condescension toward “Hoosier Nation” is sounding like Podunker.

    Houston plays freshmen guards and they make ours look silly….Sampson’s entire team is tenacious on the glass. Our team is playing with zero toughness.

    Archie is an upgrade from the last buffoon….and that’s really about it. Many of the Indiana kids coming to Indiana play an ‘entitled’ game of basketball. They don’t value the scholarship or the name on the jersey.

    I’ve covered the topics on here dozens upon dozens of times over the last 10 years (e.g. the destruction of Indiana’s single class tournament, influences of distractions in social media, etc.) …Listen, all teams are functioning in this same environment.

    But there is a different dynamic atop the usual excuses (youth, holdovers, injuries, shot clocks, toughness of conference, twitter addictions keeping “shooters” out of their driveways, apathy in fan base resting on their thumbs in sky boxes, etc, etc)
    For every loss we hook up a new excuse like an old train carried a pointless caboose.

    You can’t teach toughness. You can’t teach will to win. You can’t teach moxie.
    It has absolutely zero to do with being a freshman, sophomore, junior or senior..or grad transfer…or portal-potty recruit.

    When visitors are playing on McCracken as if it’s there home court, something is very, very wrong. When kids our laughing (and I don’t give a damn if it’s just one or two guys…or benchwarmers. And it happened in last year’s NIT game as well)) in the final timeout of a troubling loss, something is wrong. When Archie babbles incoherently about Sesame Street shows on PBS and refuses to call out his own players for laughing in a huddle when they’re crumbling late in games like Cookie Monster’s messy cookie, something is wrong.

    And it’s wrong to keep making excuses for the ‘entitlement’ which has fallen upon ALL IU sports. There has been a distortion of what those banners represent to our recruits. To our competition, it means one of the biggest targets on a back in basketball…as it always has. To our recruits, it means I’ve made it already. They play as if they’ve already won every blue ribbon they’ll ever need. These attitudes are beginning long before any Indiana recruit arrives in Bloomington.

    When is the last time you can remember a Hoosier fouling out? Sure doesn’t appear ‘protecting’ anyone is protecting the final result. I like Archie, but there are deep, deep problems with Hoosier Basketball. Some he can fix in the immediacy. Many I’m not as convinced …until the truth is examined. Kids laughing during a loss needs examined. And even for all of Juwan Morgan’s skills and work ethic, there was a way he was carrying himself I always thought would be different had he played somewhere else …of for someone else.

    And my B-Ball IQ is just fine. It was fine after nine weeks of Crean and I knew where that sh** charade was going to end…Though I must admit, cue cards even caught me off-guard.

    Much like the country, Hoosier Basketball needs a cultural revolution. It’s dying a slow death by way of status quo which is just fine for the rich and entitled….and rather mentally challenged.

    1. You Jester,
      I can always tell how well I have got inside your head by the number of posts or paragraphs it takes for you to respond. I think this one may be close to the record. By my count, 11 or maybe those are stanzas!

  39. The real problem is your arrogance think about it. So if Archie stays-then what? They go through the motions yet again. He has proven he can’t coach a team up. Look at Underwood at Illinois. He changed his whole program to fit the talent he has. Archie makes zero adjustments. It is the definition of Groundhog Day. In essence, you are the problem. You will be on the deck of the Titanic and say- remain calm, everything is fine. Enjoy your ride on the sinking ship.

    Also, IU has the highest recruiting budget in the Conference. Do you trust Archie to keep throwing good money after bad. Even if he brings players, how does he make adjustments during games. Yesterday, Wiscy was playing chess and IU was playing checkers.

    If we fire him today or five years, it will be the same. He has proven he can’t coach on this stage. He just can’t. His team doesn’t like him. Hell, the coaching staff doesn’t like one another. Yet, you are still wanting to stay the course.

  40. Last comment by me….we missed 5 FTs yesterday and at least 1 was a 1 & 1. Maybe 2, I can’t remember. I wish they’d change that stat to reflect the 1st miss = 2 misses, because that is what it really is. So really we missed at least 6 FT opps. & had we hit 4 of those that game goes to OT at worst. Hit 1 more of the 13 missed shots down the stretch and we win, s.a. Race Thompson’s failed dunk put back.

  41. Thompson should have just done a lay-up off the glass…Very rookie mistake in a very key moment. Those sorts of brainfart blunders should be out of your basketball DNA by junior high. Have you ever played in clutch moment? Highlight reel mentality…instead of simply doing what’s necessary to win a game for your team.

    Again, Thompson is probably more disciplined than most on our team. I should go easy on the criticisms…but these sort of blunders should never occur in a high school game…yet in a kid wearing candy stripes. Max Hoetzel was the same sort of player…Moved around the court as if he floated on fuzzy socks. Zero Moxie…other than what was spewed from his mouth. Entitled…”You’ll soon know my name”….I sure will know your name. I’ll soon associate it with all talk and no action…like the rest of the 90% we bring to Indiana and sprinkle with banner glitter and more entitlement.

  42. OMG so much anger and frustration coming out now and I feel the same! The new AD needs to bite the bullet and look for a coach that can create a TEAM that is focused, disciplined, and able to execute the basics for a whole 40 minutes! I’d rather watch a team reflect the above qualities and lose than to watch the present abomination “roller coaster “ through a game, conference, and a whole season! This really does fall on the coaching staff and the culture they have created!!

    1. mgmeis- Painful for many to hear, but true. I’ll give Archie his time to to assemble his “own” team.
      But there are things he’s saying and things he’s avoiding to address which are beginning to become quite troubling. I don’t have a ton of hope anymore. Maybe it’s just the $200,000/mth check that begins to pacify and corrupt the desires of anyone…? No hunger….only frustrations. They all begin to sound like crabby babies in need of more milk. And is he squatting and clapping …and pacing the sidelines more…? Is he also refusing to sit down and take a chill pill? It’s terrifying to watch and think he may be morphing into another hyperactive Tom Crean.

      Pressures of the job…for those not built to take pressure.

  43. Houston Cougars play with a toughness that is the embodiment of their coach….’You can knock me down, but I’ll never quit.’

    What a joy to watch a team that plays like they care…..EVERY game. You can’t teach moxie.

    1. Yup H4H,
      Those Houston Cougars play with the toughness of a coach who was able to put 2 programs in the anemic ncaa’s doghouse and live to coach another day. Wonder how long before the folks out in Texas hear those familiar words, “Houston we have a problem!” May be a while though, the ncaa has become so toothless by their feckless abilities they may never be able to bring another program down. Pull up a chair and watch KU show everyone how it is done.

      1. He was a jaywalker compared to ghost classes at UNC for 15 years. He was made an example because he’s not an old white guy. Crean probably cheated more on his college admission tests.
        His teams play tough….Our team plays soft. It’s just a fact.

        And get your narcissism under control. I enjoy this…though I know I post way too much. But you need to stop sounding like Podunker. I like you too much for you to take on those traits and targeting of “Hoosier Nation.” Indiana was taken over by business insiders from Indy. There are a ton of reasons to find blame at a place no one stands up or is held accountable.

  44. Wow…Valiant effort by Valpo…Walk-on from Noblesville playing four games in four days with damaged ligaments in his ankle. They all ran out of gas…

    What do you know…? Guard on Valpo has the highest 3-pt. percentage in all of D-1 college hoops over the last two seasons. I’ll let you guess where he’s from…..No I won’t. The little town of CHESTERTON! It’s in the DNA.

  45. H4H advent of the AAU and Under Armor leagues hurt development of ALL players ..those leagues were established to allow kids to sell themselves for scholarships. The Summer park play where kids showed up to play at 10 AM and didn’t go home until 10 Pm has dissolved to after thoughts.Kids from smaller schools that could measure them selves against tougher competition without selling their parents house to travel or next year H S Freshmen could learn the value fake shot instead of eating leather. Someone made comment about incoming recruits and star ranking and then someone said they didn’t know much about Jordan Geronimo other than he’s a 4 star recruit.Then I thought WHO DECIDES THESE RANKINGS?? Who is the “man behind the curtain”…Game film versus in-person evaluations
    Each service uses its own set of criteria, and thus, no set of rankings is ever exactly the same. Recruiting rankings are inherently an inexact science so each talent evaluator is going to have differing opinions about certain players and their long-term potential.
    The biggest factor, according to the experts, is a prospect’s game film. This is where the experts can get the best feel for a player’s actual ability in the flow of a game. For the majority of the recruiting experts, this is preferred to combines and camps. However, one potential downside is with the rise of Hudl and xOS, recruiting analysts now have to wade through more game film and highlight tape than ever before. so its reall nothing more than a CRAP SHOOT.

    1. tjT,
      I believe the AAU and Under Armour circuits are destroying basketball. I also believe that the only thing which can put a stop to these leagues will surprisingly be the nba. I think there is growing concern in the league hierarchy that their potential players are being physically worn out before they ever make it to the professional level. If they don’t put a stop to it, at some point, they won’t have a product to market.

      It is like the old pitch count adage, there are only so many lifetime pitches in a pitcher’s arm. Same holds true for athletes in general, there are only so many games at an elite level in the body, and the AAU and Under Armour leagues are burning through too many of those games.

  46. +Thanks for the recruiting 101 info, TJ . I’ll be honest, I just don’t follow the h.s. recruiting scene/methods much anymore. Much of my interest in Indiana h.s. basketball ended when the multi-class system was implemented. Our unique state of hoops in Indiana was ruined with some committee rooms somewhere.

    I suppose that’s Hoosier Nation’s fault as well….

    There still some teams out there with kids who get it. There are coaches out there who find kids who value the opportunity and respect their team and coach. Watched that walk-on kid from Noblesville in tears in the handshake line after Valpo just ran out of gas to pull their 4th win in four days. I enjoyed watching that game more than any BigTen game I’ve seen all season….Very little prima donna attitudes.

    There is still joy to found in the game…And there are still players and coaches who appreciate fans sincerely and feel honored to represent a school/program.

    I was hoping Valpo would make it in…so they could steal a spot from sub .500 teams in the BigTen. We abandoned the UK rivalry game (very special to many fans for decades). We get embarrassed by Purdue at home…We collapse against Wisconsin.
    We really don’t even deserve an NIT tournament. I’m tired of defending it all….And I’m tired of excuses. Mike Davis came took a team to a Final Four in his second season after the hell storm of Knight’s firing. Until Indiana Basketball shows me they are getting people who respect those who paved the way before them and begin to be more than actors on a stage, I think my heart is starting to close up shop. Only wish I would have followed Valpo’s mini run through the Missouri Conference tournament more closely…It took my kid to tell me about it.

    Anyway, we have all thef ootball and basketball experts one could ever dream of right here. I don’t even know why we need the journalists. And the “experts” who challenge us to think about it are very good at calling out the stupid people who just don’t have the “critical thinking skills” to put rose pedals on an excuse dissertation.
    My best value here is of no value. I’m the Jester of Chesterton. I should stay in my lane.

    But thanks again, TJ. You did a nice post there without talking down as so many do here. I appreciate that. You seem like you understand this stuff pretty well.

    1. H4H,
      You know I only mess with you and others because you care. I wish all of Hoosier Nation cared as much some of the posters to board do. We agree on a whole lot more than we disagree, but I will challenge you on certain points. There is on point upon which we absolutely agree and that is the catastrophic damage done to Indiana High School basketball by the multi class tournament system now in place. Take it back to the single class, that is the true Hoosier Hysteria. Long live the Jester of Chesterton!

  47. OK!!! It’s set and we play Nebraska and should be able to win that one. And then we get to face Penn State on a neutral court! I am of the opinion that the past 2 years Penn State got completely hosed here at Simon Skojdt Assembly Hall, and IF the Hoosiers can be competitive (and win??!!) then it’s time for The ROCK to “shut up and go home”. (as ALL SEASON I’ve written that this Hoosier iteration cannot win on a neutral court, can only ‘win’ when the referees are giving them the game). I won’t “stand on my head” if I’m wrong, but I DO pledge to stop with the whining about the homer refereeing which, In my opinion, makes us a laughing-stock in the Collegiate Basketball World.

    However, if Penn State runs us out of the gym as I think they will……….

    Thanks, Jeremy and Jon for keeping it real.

    Thursday!!!!!!!!!

  48. For the past 6 games PSU took a tremendous amount of hosing. They lost 5 of them. FACTS matter.

    1. ^^^ Exactly. ROCK diverted his allegiance to PSU when the network put the mic in the huddle vs. Illinois. Recall he lauded over Pat Chambers ‘gentler’/non-demeaning approach to coaching and proclaimed he was jumping on the PSU bandwagon. Good news is, he’s obviously still on it despite me presenting evidence of Chambers’ 2019 suspension for shoving Miles Dread.

      There are a lot of confused individuals on this blog.

  49. Archie Miller to IU. Thinks millions. Now, IU go get Chris Beard to coach IU. Knight went to Texas Tech from IU. Now, Beard can come from Texas Tech to IU. Knight’s in town and Beard is a student of Knight coaching. IU basketball is restored. Simply done with Beard and his staff that he could assemble.

    1. t,
      You got any idea how much that would cost. Not only would you have to buy out Archie’s contract, but Chris Beard’s at TTU as well. That could get really expensive because Beard wouldn’t come to IU cheap with his own contract. Likely result, cost highly prohibitive, plus there is no guarantee your team won’t walk with the portal opportunity.

    2. I do really like Chris Beard. He and Underwood were at the top of my list.

  50. Comments are starting to get confusing. Example Rock, Green “frozen mid-game by jealous teammates”. Except he took 13 shots, 6 shots in the first half and 7 shots (all misses) in the second. I’m not a fan of +/_- but he was -10 for the game. Rob & Jackson-Davis had the next highest number of attempts at 8 each. Than the comment ‘Archie screaming at players’. Probably right, but going back through some earlier thread, a number of comments complaining Archie does not show enough emotion, too laid-back, should throw something every now and than to get players attention. Which is the right emotion? Guess it depends on the players and their response.

    I think the team has improved, especially the last 4-5 games. Competitive but true, still losses.

    I would bet Archie has two more seasons to get-it-together, unless he decides to walk away.

    1. ^^^ Another great post Ron! People and “fans” in particular are fickle & don’t pay attention to facts when emotion sets in. I invite everyone to go look at Green’s stats. He’s put up 66 more 3s than Durham in 200 less minutes on the floor this season. He also has more than 1 shot per minute played, the highest on the team. He himself even declared his approach was to “keep shooting” whether he was hot or not. Sat. was no exception. The well dried up and he kept firing.

      I wish this forum would’ve existed in the Knight-era such that we knew where the fan lunacy actually developed. Has it always existed -or- is a hangover based on post-Knight performance (1 Final Four in the 21st century)?

      I’m consistent….I don’t want a softer/gentler coach. The soft everyone gets a trophy b.s. is just not my thing.

      1. ….should have said more than 1 shot per min. per game. Also his 2 pt. FG % = his 3 pt. FG%, exactly!

  51. NBC news had an interesting article this weekend concerning tuition and college sports. Students at many schools had no ideal their tuition may provide $$’s to support sports and the growing resistance to the fees. One student estimated the sports “fee” will add $20,000 upon graduation to pay back. Seems to affect smaller institutions with VMI having the highest. NBC found it hard to determine the amounts per school due to state reporting requirements and accounting methods. Ohio’s Miami University for example purchased 10,000 football tickets. NCAA requires 15000 paid attendance to remine in whatever division they are in. Their tuition-sports fee was listed at $1,044 per student.

    Add in the issue of paying students and potential change to one&done, some tremendous changes to college sports coming. Good thing we have the NCAA to guide us through the changes. (chuckle/chuckle)

  52. Ron, I have made many comments regarding and relating to your NBC comment. It would make a great research project. The problem is an elite/s crook in $3,000 suit would do the research. Really, there is no research needed. All one has to do is stop, think it through, and common sense will tell you what is going on. It is an example of it runs parallel to the corruption to the tune of $100 Billions investments by the Mormon Jesus Christ Later-Day Saints.

    Saints that are serving the poor of the mutual funds, stocks, and investments extremely well just like the non athlete college student is serving the college athletes. Just like Jesus Christ himself intended according to the self righteous elite. That’s the problem. Just another example regarding gross in balance of justice financial scales. Another example of Money being the root to evil.

  53. think. Since almost everything is so corrupt anyway and if Cuban and the rock singer won’t pay for it just charge the non athletic college student for something or increase one of there fees, or set up lemonade and cooky stands throughout the campus . Start charging back on coaching contracts for losses. Put incentives in a Beard contract and make it long term. Just getter done.

    1. I do like Chris Beard….Archie is starting to sound like a whiny Crean. Oops…I’m supposed to be going down with the ship.
      Women hoops fans and children…and big fans of the SEC first!

      I would also never rule out Beilein …or Frank Martin…or Bill Coen. We could get by cheap with Coen…or the coach from Princeton. Just give me a coach who won’t play guys simply because they’re “big man on campus.” We need accountability and we need guys playing like they give a rat’s ass about the name on the front of the jersey. No laughing in timeout huddles after you’ve had your jock strap fed to you by a Badger or Boiler.

  54. By the way. I AM TOTALLY MORE THAN 100% AGAINST CHARGING NON ATHLETES COLLEGE STUDENTS ANYTHING TO SUPPORT THE ATHLETES.

    1. Ok t,
      But if you want that, then it will have to be a 2 way street. Remember Ron’s article is about small schools, not the upper echelons of P5 schools with major FB programs. Even with as historically a dismal FB program as IU has fielded, thanks to the B1G tv revenue, IU athletics is currently giving dollars to non athletic department costs. If you can’t use student fees to fund athletics, then you shouldn’t be using athletic revenues to fund student costs.

      Remember, well run P5 athletic programs are a profit center, not the other way around.

  55. think. It depends on how things and statistics are defined. I doubt if football stadium plus upgrades, parking lots, equipment, salaries etc were funded by only football game profits.

    1. Actually t,
      If I understand it correctly, it was funded through multiple sources. Part through donations and part through a capital fundraising project issuing bonds to be repaid. Appears they were using part of the tv revenues to fund some of it, but I was not able to dig deep. Hopefully, someone more familiar with the projects can shed more light on it. You have to remember, when you have 45m coming in a year, you can stretch the payments out over several years.

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