Purdue wants Hulls, too

Jordan Hulls, the point guard from Bloomington South who received a scholarship offer from Indiana last night, visited Matt Painter in West Lafayette today.

He received a scholarship offer from the Boilermakers.

Hulls, as good friend of the scoop ww posted on a previous post, is the grandson of John Hulls, who was an assistant with Bob Knight in his first two years at Indiana.

This lineage explains why Hulls has always watched and though about playing for Duke — his grandfather knew Mike Krzyzewski before he was the guy everybody just referred to as Coach K.


  1. Great to see a local kid get Big Ten offers after being thought of as a mid-major prospect.

    Hopefully he comes to IU!

  2. I feel like we may have jumped the gun on this one. I hope this isnt a case of offering an Indiana kid because he is an Indiana kid (or a Bloomington kid to be more accurate). This isnt Sean May or Jared Jefferies folks.

  3. Caleb, have you seen Hulls play? Especially AAU ball?

    And what the heck does a 6’0″ point guard have to do with May or JJ?


  4. Caleb, If I were a player like May and Jefferies I would go where I would get the ball once in a while, and believe me Hulls will get you the ball!
    He is a smart kid with a good basketball IQ, and
    feel for the game. Coach Crean thinks he fits his system of play and will play within it, and isn’t that what it is all about?

  5. Jeff, no I havent seen him play. I cant even watch a video of him because there is none. I have heard that he is running the point for the Elite One squad this spring/summer and so far he is running it pretty well.

    And to answer your question about what Hulls has to do with May and JJ…..they were all three Bloomington HS kids. My point was that I hope we arent offering this kid just because he is from Bloomington or Indiana. I know the typical refrain that we need to get Indiana kids. I agree, but we dont need to get Indiana kids just to have an Indiana kid. IU has a national recruiting base and until very very recently this kid only had interest from Evansville, Ohio, Vermont, Toledo and Western Michigan. Im not saying you can make a decision on a kid based on stars or what schools are interested, but you cant completely ignore that either. I would have to imagine that if he was that great that we would burn one of what will be our last two scholys for 09 on him that some big name schools would be interested. I see Duke, but they havent offered and only just became interested.

  6. Ann, I do agree. I trust Coach first and foremost, but we have been down the “loading up on guards” path in our recent past. It didnt work. It’s very obvious that winning in the Big Ten and winning in the NCAA requires you to have at least 4 good bigs that can all contribute. And by big I mean 6’9″ or 6’10” at least. Not 6’7″. That is a SF.

    IU hasnt had a dominant inside presence (apologies to DJ White because he had no help) since we were rolling out Jared, Jeff and George. That is the type of frontline we need to get back to if we want to compete on the highest level for years to come. Tall, lanky, athletic bigs that can score in the post and block shots in the lane on the defensive end.

    By the way, didnt we just sign Jones, Dumes and we have Moore walking on who was All State. Seems to me like the PG spot is no longer a need.

  7. Caleb,

    I agree with you 100%. All this “We need Indiana kids” talk frustrates me. Yes, we need to bring back Indiana kids to the program, but when I say Indiana kids I mean Greg Oden, Mike Conley, Sean May, not just any decent player from Indiana.

    To be elite again we need as many top/nationally ranked recruits as we can get no matter where they’re from.

    Look at UNC, Duke, Kansas and UCLA. Those rosters are littered with 5 and 4 star recruits from all over the country, and those are the teams consistently in the top 10 and in Final Fours.

  8. Good kid, Good parents, Good choice. Now, let’s hope that Jordan chooses IU. All previous points about guards and “bigs” are valid.

    Only Coach knows the intent of the offer. I would venture a guess that it is based on talent, heart and maybe a distant third reason……being a hometown product.

    I love it. First of May and we are still talking hoops. No offense to football, but IU fans still love their hoop-la.

  9. I doubt Jordan got an offer because he is a “hometown” kid. How many “hometown” players did Knight offer in his 30 years here?

    Jordan is a baller, he is level headed, great basketball IQ, he is a true PG in that he controls the offensive pace and runs the offense on the court, and is a VERY good student(3.8-4.0 range). Remember that whole APR bullet we dodged this year?

    Jordan will be a 4 year player, and a 4 year Academic All-American. Yes we need some height, but what good is that height if you don’t have a true PG to feed them the ball?

  10. Caleb, Your point is well taken we are short on
    tall, lanky, athletic players, and I think there
    still is a chance of piking one up this year if Iam not wrong. My point still is this, this kid will get the ball to anyone that is position to score,and maybe give Jones, Dumes, Moore a chance to play two guard, I Think one at least is a combo?

  11. Jordan is a very good PG that sees the floor (aasits), cab really shoot the ball (pts.) and is a tough kid (D). Dumes will only be here 2 years, as he is a JC recruit. CTC put a small PG in the pros with Deneir (sp?). I have seen JH play and the kid will hold his own and is not a Ahfeld type recruit.

  12. We need to recruit the 4 and 5 star talent for sure whether or not they’re from Indiana. I don’t care if they’re from Moscow. If we have guys from all over the country, we are also building relationships with those high schools, which is HUGE.

    Shools like Lincoln in NY, Dematha in my home state, MD, and Oak Hill Academy in VA, churn out NBA calibur players every year. And if we build a relationship with the coaches at these schools, they are more likely to call Crean and be like “Hey I got this kid who’s gonna be a monster!” It’s how recruiting works. Networking is huge. We can’t just be focusing on some farm boy from Oolitic because he’s from Indiana.

  13. He got lucky because he played a few good games in the spotlight…and duh hes surrounded by 4 and 5 star players. Not hard to look good. There is a lot of hype around this kid, and while I wont mind him on the team, he isnt worth getting all excited about. hulls needs to cash in while he can, I bet his stock will drop.

  14. Steve O – The kids from Lincoln, Oak Hill and those NBA caliber players are the reason IU had an APR of 899 and could face sanctions in the future if this trend does not reverse.

    Mikie – Jordan Hulls runs the point for his AAU team (one of the best in the nation). Do you understand what that means? He is the floor general, he controls the tempo, sets up the plays, and is responsible for making it happen. Like I said, those tall 4 and 5 star recruits don’t mean nothing if you can’t get the ball to them.

    All that talent around him makes him look better right? Is that why he is a first team selection for the IBCA All-State Underclassman team with all those 4 and 5 star players at Bloomington South?

    Maybe those kids he plays with at South is why he is considered one of the top 10 point guards in the state (out of 600+ schools with point guards)?

    Or maybe it is that you have no clue who Jordan Hulls is, the kind of person, student, and player he is, and you are speaking out of your ass?

  15. Mike P, that’s an unfair assumption. Just because there are a few “bad apples” doesn’t mean just becasue you go to one of these schools, you are a moron. Who’s the last player we got from one of these high school juggernauts? Bracey Wright? He was good, he was just coached very poorly, and do you have a copy of his transcript? I know I don’t. But he didn’t fail off the team, and I don’t remember there ever being questions about his academics.

    That’s a pretty crappy generalization Mike.

  16. The kid would be better off going to Purdue. Better coach, more opportunity to play, experienced supporting cast of players.

  17. Steve O – Those kind of players will hurt the APR. And I have said it before, I don’t want a 1 and done player, I want a kid that will give 3 or 4 solid years to the team.

    Ohio State is a prime example. They get Odon and Connoly, they make the NCAA Championship game. Those two go pro the next year, OSU plays in the NIT. Sorry, those are not the kids I want.

    I don’t want prep players like Bassett that have poor attitudes and think they deserve to be here. I want kids that are humbled to be here that will play 110% every game.

    Oh, and Bracey was all part of that Mike Davis era that started us on the road that we are on now. Rather he was an issue or not, he came from that time frame.

  18. Steve O – Let me clarify myself, I am not generalizing these kids as bad students. However with the new APR rankings, kids that come in and transfer out or leave early count against the overall APR of a team. At this point and time, IU can not afford to get the 1 or 2 and done players, or they will lose scholarships and face a possible post season ban.

  19. I sometimes get frustrated with the ‘Indiana kid’ stuff as well. I’m sure Jordan is a top point guard from this state and deserves the scholarship. If he comes then i’ll support him 100%… Coach knows best after all.

    The only point i will make is the one others are trying to make… if Jordan is a top 5 point from Indiana… will his scholarship and ‘ballhandler’ position on the team mean that a top 5 point guard on the NATIONAL level that would have considered us, won’t. As so many like to point out… we’re Indiana… we recruit nationally. I just hope the staff is keeping that in mind. The relationship they need to keep strong is with the state of Indiana high school head coaches… not individual players, fans or alumni.

  20. PS: The kids who stay only 1 or 2 years and then transfer/leave only hurt us with respect to the APR if they leave the school with bad grades. You can still get top 20 recruits who will go to classes second semester and do well grade-wise. To assume every kid who leaves after a year or 2 hurts the program’s APR is ignorant and asinine.

  21. Mike P, I’m just gonna copy the post I made earlier, because I really think you and a lot of IU fans miss the boat on the current landscape of recruiting.

    All this “We need Indiana kids & kids that want to stay 3-4 years” talk frustrates me. Yes, we need to bring back Indiana kids to the program, but when I say Indiana kids I mean Greg Oden, Mike Conley, Sean May, not just any decent player from Indiana.

    To be elite again we need as many top/nationally ranked recruits as we can get no matter where they’re from.

    Look at UNC, Duke, Kansas and UCLA. Those rosters are littered with 5 and 4 star recruits from all over the country, and those are the teams consistently in the top 10 and in Final Fours.

  22. Hulls is exactly the kind of kid that built Indiana Basketball into what it was until 2001. Anyone that has seen the kid play knows that.

    Info on how the NCAA figures the APR from the NCAA website….

    The multi-year average for the latest Academic Progress Report spans the last four years and institutions are awarded points when a student-athlete remains academically eligible for competition and when he or she either returns to the institution the following semester or graduates. A maximum of two points per student/per semester is awarded.

    The NCAA does not penalize an institution for student-athletes who remain academically eligible but did not return to the institution due to circumstances beyond the student and/or institution’s control. Examples of this include student-athletes who leave to pursue professional athletics, suffer from incapacitating physical or mental illness, or experience extreme financial difficulties as the result of a specific event such as a death in the family.

  23. David – Before you call others ignorant and asinine, make sure you look in the mirror. Per Doug Wilson’s post yesterday
    Each student-athlete can earn up to two points per semester, one for staying enrolled and one for making progress toward a degree. If a student-athlete remains in school and is eligible, he scores two points; if he departs and is eligible, he scores one point. If he leaves and is ineligible, he scores zero. The APR is calculated by dividing the team’s total points earned by the total points possible.

    So if a 1 and done comes to play here, and he leaves early with good grades, we get 3 of his 4 possible APR points for the year, that calculates to a APR score of 750 for that player.

  24. Hello, anybody in there? Those who haven’t either seen Hulls play or know him personally really can’t make a judgment call on this one. Yes, it is true that Jordan is getting recognition from playing with the Indiana Elite team because he is playing with higher caliber teammates. This has allowed college coaches to better judge his talent. It not only has shown his ballhandling and passing skills but also has freed him up to shoot. In high school, if you stop Jordan you’ve hugely increased your odds to beat South. It has also shown his leadership skills among other more highly touted prospects.

  25. The anti-Jordan Hulls theme of the majority of posters is pitiful. I’ve known Jordan since he was 5 years old, playing youth baseball at Smithville. Here’s what any team offering Jordan a chance at a major school is going to get-

    TOUGHNESS. Jordan is fearless he will take it at anyone.

    IQ! In the classroom and court.

    DEDICATION! I know for fact the kid is in the gym 6-7 days a week when we’re all throwing breakfast down. Jordan could have excelled in baseball or football, but he elected to focus on basketball, his true passion. He’s a flat out top notch athlete.

    QUICKNESS! I had my doubts about his quickness but after watching him play against South’s tougher opponents, I know for fact he is quicker than what most doubters give him credit for. Just ask a few ‘quicker’ guards who tried to contain him.

    SWEET MID and LONG RANGE JUMPER, Enough said.

    CHARACTER! The kid is a good kid, he always has been a kid of character and a LEADER.

    His parents are wonderful people and do a great job preparing each of their kids for life.

    So tell me nay sayers, what is missing?

    Sometimes the folks that run their mouths here blow my mind. To believe IU or any other school for that matter can have a roster filled with top 50 level recruits is quite frankly missing the whole point of collegiate level competition.

    And in general do you know how late round picks excel in the NFL? The same goes for college basketball. Coaching staffs love finding that hidden gem off the radar.
    Jordan whether he ends up a Boiler, Hoosier or other will excel. The fact he’s in our backyard is irrelevant.

    j a c k

  26. Sounds like a lot of you have forgotten what IU basketball has been about in the past, or at least the 30+ years I have been cheering for them. Bob Knight always kept players around that grew up in Indiana and had very intelligent basketball minds. Wearing an Indiana jersey and playing in Assembly Hall meant more to these guys than life itself and they would give 110% every time they stepped on the floor. They weren’t always the greatest athletes, but they more than made up for it with their smart play and enthusiasm. Players like Steve Alford, Mike Lewis, Todd Leary, Tom Coverdale, Damon Bailey, Isiah Thomas, and many others, I know I missed some obvious greats. Knight always kept these kind of guys around. My main point is, Jordan Hulls is one of those guys we have been missing that can be the “coach” on the floor. The closest we have come to having this kind of player since Coverdale graduated was Eric Suhr, but he didn’t get to play much until his senior year and then he didn’t play enough, nice job Davis. Just look at what Butler has been able to do with all of their Indiana boys the past few years. My guess is a lot of those guys would have come to IU had Knight still been here. If Coach Crean wants to bring that style of basketball back to IU, I will be the first person in my seat at Assembly Hall on game night.

  27. Jordan Hulls… The leadership of Buckner, the shooting of Alford, the passing of Isaiah, the savvy of Hillman, the heart of Coverdale, the fundamentals of Whitman, the hustle of Suhr, the class of a kid about to make a name for himself among the IU elite (if he chooses to come).

  28. Nate, you kind of help me with my point on the Erik Suhr comment. Nice kid, good to have on the end of your bench as a walk on, but I consider IU an elite program and want to return to that level. Currently I consider UNC, Duke, Kansas and UCLA to be elite.

    Look at those schools and you will not find a bunch of walk-ons on the court unless they’re up 40. What you find is McDonald All-Americans and top 50 recruits. Their rosters are littered with them, and that’s where IU should be.

  29. I agree with B in Md. Duke and UNC didnt get great by recruiting players who have great heart. They recruited people who were great players and had the great heart and hustle. The whole package.

    On the contrary i think Jordan sounds like a great kid and i dont think with how deep we our
    at the guard position i think he would do better a at purdue or stanford

  30. Hulls is probably a really good player that any team would love to have. I just want to make clear that I’m not specifically talking about him.

    I’m more commenting on the general vibe I’ve been hearing from a lot of IU fans. That they’d rather have the kid from the Indiana farm that isn’t nearly as talented but plays for the “front of the jersey.”

    I’d rather have the top recruit in the country no matter where he’s from if he’ll take us to the Final Four on a regular basis.

  31. Come on tradition.. You’re comparing a high school junior to Buckner, Alford, and Isaiah Thomas??? LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL!!!!!!!!!! You got to be kidding me!

    I totally agree “B in MD.” Thank God none of the people posting on this blog are actually making any decisions that affect IU basketball or we’d have a bunch of good ol’ farm boys drivin their tractors to Assembly Hall for practice…

    I said this earlier. You gotta build relationships with some of the high school power house teams like Oak Hill, Dematha, St Patrick, Lincoln, Huntington, etc… And I’m sure Crean already has some connections with these types of schools. He’s smart. He knows it’s where some of the best high school players in history have played. I’ll take the athletic 6’9 forward from Oak Hill over Old Mcdonald’s son from Bedford any day.

    B in MD, where in MD???

  32. Just outside Baltimore, near the airport. I lived in Indiana as a kid though and used to go to camps at IU which is why I’m an IU fan.

    I totally agree with comments, and we’re not against Indiana kids, we just want the best kids. I love that Elston and hopefully Stephan Van Trese will be coming to IU. I would have loved to have Oden, Conley, Sean May and those guys that got away. We just don’t want to settle for kids from Indiana that aren’t as talented just because they’re from Indiana.

  33. Ok. I live right around the Towson area. I graduated from IU. I have family out there still south of Indy…

  34. B in MD, you’re dreaming. No player you desire to recruit sticks around long enough to take a team to multiple Final Fours, grasp reality dude/dudette. I’m gonna take your BS theory one step further. I’ll research championship winning teams from the past 8-10 years for 4 and 5 star recruit numbers. I’d bet my home that winning teams starting rosters and 6th/7th subs were not top heavy with the players you’re stroking in this thread. To think a team can have 13-15 kids ranked in the top 50-100 year in and year out is foolish.

    j a c k

  35. Ok, let’s name a few recent championship teams that had big time recruits that stuck around longer than 1-2 years, and then we’ll see whose dreaming. And look at UNC’s classes for ’08 and ’09, they have a total of five 5-star recruits and two 4-star recruits, so yes these schools are littered with 4 & 5 star recruits on their rosters.

    Brandon Rush (junior)
    Darrell Arthur (junior)
    Mario Chalmers (junior)
    Had a McDonald’s All-American center coming off the bench, along with Shasha Kaun and the pg from Chicago who was a big recruit.

    Brewer (sophomore & junior)
    Horford (sophomore & junior)
    Had Spaetes coming of the bench who was a big recruit.

    May (junior)
    McCants (junior)
    Felton (junior)
    Had Marvin Williams coming off the bench who was a top recruit.

    These schools recruit the best consistently and then reload when they leave. There’s a reason UNC, Duke, Kansas and UCLA are always in the top 10 and challenging for Final Fours, and it’s not because they limit recruiting to local kids.

  36. Steve 0 – I work in Owings Mills, not far from Towson, my sister and cousin went to IU, and I still have family in Indy so do my best to stay connected.

    All these blogs, websites and discussion boards certainly help.

  37. Jack, teams that have won national championships recently like UNC, Duke, Kansas, FLorida, UCONN Etc. All had 4 and 5 star recruits. Are you crazy? The teams with the best players win! I can break it down further for you if you want but it might be embarassing…

    2003 – Syracuse
    Freshman starters.
    Carmello Anthony – 5 Star (1yr)
    Gerry Mcnamera – 4 Star (4yrs)
    Josh Pace – 4 star (4yrs)
    Hakim Warrick – 5 star (4yrs)

    2004 – UCONN
    Rashad Anerson – 4 Star. (4yrs)
    Denham Brown – 4 star. (4yrs)
    Charlie Villanueva – 5 Star (2yrs)
    Marcus Williams – 4 star (3yrs)
    Josh Boone – 4 star. (3yrs)
    Ben Gordon – 5 star. (3yrs)
    Emeka Okafor – 5 star (3yrs)

    So yea not sure what evidence you have to back your comments, but here’s mine.

  38. I meant Carmello and Mcnemara were freshman starters. Warrick and Pace were sophomores I think.

  39. Steve O or B in MD,

    Have either one of you EVER seen Hulls play?

    You do realize that the Indiana Elite is the #1 ranked AAU team in the nation, and Jordan is the starting PG?

    What do you guys thing about John Walls? The #1 ranked PG in the country for 2009 that is interested in IU, a 5 star player, and a kid that Jordan dropped 5 3-pointers on.

    Jordan now has teams like Duke, Stanford and Wake Forest interested in him, he was on the all tourney team at the Jayhawk Invitational last weekend, the Pitt Jamfest before that, and is the #2 ranked player in the state of Indiana for the class of 2009.

    Though I am sure not one of the COACHES and people who put together these national tournaments know a damn thing about basketball and think Jordan is deserving because he is a Bloomingon Indiana kid.

  40. Mike P…Below is a post I made earlier. I’m not commenting specifically on Hulls.

    Hulls is probably a really good player that any team would love to have. I just want to make clear that I’m not specifically talking about him.

    I’m more commenting on the general vibe I’ve been hearing from a lot of IU fans. That they’d rather have the kid from the Indiana farm that isn’t nearly as talented but plays for the “front of the jersey.”

    I’d rather have the top recruit in the country no matter where he’s from if he’ll take us to the Final Four on a regular basis.

  41. B in MD,

    I missed that comment. I do agree with that. I don’t want some Indiana Farm boy just because he is from Indiana. However, I don’t want the 1 and done players of the world either. I want solid 3 and 4 star kids sprinkled with the 5 star guys who will give you more than 1 year. You know, the kind of kids that want to win an NCAA title before going to the NBA and collecting a pay check.

  42. Mike P, yeah I don’t want people to think I’m bashing Hulls. He sounds like a really good player.

    I still disagree on the style of recruiting you’re talking about, though. I’d rather have mainly outstanding 4-5 star kids and a few solid 3 star kids sprinkled in for depth and roles.

    Getting 3-4 star kids with 5 star guys sprinkled in is basically Indiana basketball the last 15 years. We compete at a high level once every few years when that 5 star kid is sprinkled in, but basically we’ve been an above average Big 10 team that doesn’t consistently go deep in the tourney or compete on the national level.

    I’d rather be UNC and the other schools I’ve mentioned who get the top kids all the time and compete every year.

  43. Mike P, no, I never saw the guy play, and hey, maybe he is good enough to compare to Buckner, Alford, and Isaiah Thomas, but I highly doubt it, especially since the kid is in freakin high school!! Other than that I have made no specific comment towards the guy. I was replying to Jack’s ridiculous remark about National Championship teams not having 4 and 5 star recruits. And the fact that we should be out trying to get the best talent possible, not some guy just because he’s from Indiana. (Not necessarily directed towards Hulls) If he’s the best point guard out there, then we should pick him up for sure.

  44. And you keep saying all of these top recruits are 1 and done… But look at the list of names I just gave you!! UCONN had like 7 ridiculous players on their national championship team, who probably could have gone to the NBA right out of high school, but all of them stayed 3 or 4 years except Villanueva. And what about UNC a few years back? May, McCants, Felton, all JUNIORS when they won it, and all “5 STAR RECRUITS!”

  45. Good point Steve 0

    If you make a list of 4-5 star recruits from UNC, Duke, Kansas, UCLA and UConn that left after 1 year and a list that stayed at least 3 years, it’s pretty ridiculous.

    You could barely field a starting five with the guys that left after 1 year, while you could field an NBA All-Star team with the guys that stayed at least three year.

  46. What happened to that Jack dude? I bet he’s at the post office mailing the title/deed to his house to me:)

    Or he’s still doing extensive research.

  47. The UCONN team you talk about is 4 years ago, the going trend is 1 and done (Oden, Conley, Gordon, Durant, Mayo, Rice, Beasley, etc….) those are the kind of players I don’t want to see every year. Yes I want Championships, but I want them one with true student/athlete’s, not guys looking to use us for a stepping stone.

    If those NBA caliber 5 star recruits will play 3 and 4 years, then sure, load the team with 12-15 of them every year, but if they are going to be 1 and gone, then I don’t want them on a consistent basis.

  48. The title teams Steve O and I are talking about all won titles with big time recruits that were mostly juniors

    So, we’re not really that far off on what each of us are saying. And, from the list of freshmen leaving that you gave only Oden and Conley even sniffed a championship.

    It took a while, but like I said, I don’t think we’re really that far off.

  49. True about UCONN, but what about UNC? Kansas?Florida? They all had highly touted recruits playing for them during their championship runs.

    Don’t forget that we may also be only a few years away from a mandatory 2 years out of high school before you can join the NBA rule, kinda like NCAA football and the NFL.

  50. Well crap, Verdell is currently only ranked 127th in the nation. . . I guess Crean screwed that one up, right B in MD. He should have held out of a top 100 or better player.

    You and your buddies here agreeing with you crack me up.


    j a c k

  51. Steve O and B in MD, your research only spans 2-3 recent winners. How come? I said I’d go back 8-10 years and prove no friggin team that’s hit the Final Four is littered with 4 and 5 star recruits.

    Please don’t provide a sample of data to support your pathetic minded arguments.

    BTW, I’m still here. The deed is still well intact till you’all get your recruiting facts straight. Opps there’s that farm boy hoosier talk coming out of of me “You’all” I must be a moroon.

    Kind regards,

    j a c k

  52. You’re so defeated on this topic that it’s difficult to even know what you’re talking about at this point.

    Under the current circumstances Jones is a great pick up by Crean, but in a normal year wouldn’t you want a more talented player?

    Why wouldn’t you want the best talent? It doesn’t make any sense.

  53. Jack,

    First of all between us I believe we went back to 2002, about 7 years worth of champions.

    Considering you were the one that brought up doing the research and have provided ZERO, you’re comments are pretty comical.

  54. yea, not sure what jack was looking at. he hasnt come with 1 valid fact to back up his statement yet. lol.

  55. Best talent, I’m all for that but many times it comes with a price. Memphis is litterd, they bow each year. It takes more than than great recruits, it’s a package of things that enable teams to consistantly win final fours and championships.

    Do the odds of winning increase w/ securing the best talent available and interested in a given program, yeah. Duh.

    I think you men might hang out on Peegs too much for your own good and buy player rankings as gospel.

    I just don’t believe for a second that coaching staffs think like you guys believe they think.

    I will post again, when I’ve had time to dig up the data I want to gather. You have my word, I’m not a tuck and run kind of guy.

    j a c k

  56. Steve O,

    I will work over the weekend to gather my facts data, I’ve not had time busy working. If all you’re interested in is capturing some blog posting war trophy, congrats.

    Why don’t go dig up the 87 Final Four data on recruits. . . UNLV was litterd with high caliber talent, IU whipped em, remember? And the the Orangemen were also litterd, IU wins again. With less than desirable recruits and transfers.

    Have a good weekend.

    j a c k

  57. Jack,

    I don’t totally disagree with you. Of course you need some 3 star or mid-level talent mixed in, every team does, but the team that win National Championships have recruiting classes mostly consisting on big time recruits. They are led by usually at least three kids that were big time recruits, not just one sprinkled in every now and then.

    The top schools (UNC, Duke, UCLA, Kansas) usually have at least a combination of three kids in each class that are 4-5 star or considered big time recruits.

  58. Jack,

    It’s not 1987 anymore, the recruiting landscape has changed drastically with AAU and nationally televised games. That’s another part of my point, I don’t think a lot of IU fans have changed with the times as far as recruiting goes.

  59. Jack, please, for your own good, stop.

    It’s pretty easy to see, year in, year out, who is going to be really good when making the transition from high school to college, and I’m pretty sure every year when they place the label “5 star” on a player, it’s because he is gonna be a beast. And I think if you look back at your favorite time span – the last “8 to 10” years, the guys they label as “5 star” have done very well in college. So say whatever you want about the “rankings” but at least I have some facts to back up my statements.

    And all I am saying is the coaches need to recruit the best players possible! Not some dude just because he’s from Indiana. That would be flat out stupid… But as I said before, Crean knows what he’s doing and will have us in the mix with the elite guys soon.

    And I am excited about the guys he has coming in. Are they gonna win us a championship?? NO. Will we be respectable? I believe so. But in the limited time he’s had, and with the players he’s had left to recruit, he’s done an outstanding job.

  60. Damn it’s hard to shut down here. I agree the landscaping of recruitment has changed but if you compare the talent levels of the 87 Final Four participants, IU looked the weakest on paper yet still won.

    Take it easy,

    j a c k

  61. Steve O – It is currently 3 years removed from high school to enter the NFL. If the NBA adopted that same rule, then I want the best 5 star recruits year in and year out, as long as no more than 4 leave in any 1 given year (you know that pesky APR thing).

    I still believe you have to have the solid 4 year players, rather they are 3 or 4 star recruits to keep a balanced team. One of my biggest complaints this year was the lack of team play, and it ended up hurting us when EJ got hurt and couldn’t hit a barn much less a 35 foot 3 pointer.

    I don’t think we are really that far off on this subject, once we got past the JH aspect.

  62. Jack, Mike P., Steve O

    Have a good weekend. I think these debates are a lot of fun and it’s what makes being a sports fan so enjoyable!

    B in MD

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