1. Nice work on the video and coverage…It didn’t appear that Wallace(especially Dawson)didn’t play up to their full potential..Who’s to say that a feisty 3A team like Wallace, a team with more speed, couldn’t have given North Central a better game? Perfect example of why the class system is a joke.

  2. I would love to see Dawson in a Hoosier uniform..The kid has the perfect basketball physique and is loaded with potential..Though his 3-point shot was barely off in the 3A championship, he has excellent form and the size to shoot over people.

  3. I shouldn’t say “no shot”….but it is very slim….I know he has already visited Purdue’s campus a few times….don’t know if he has been to bloomington..

    also mom wants him to play near their home in the region.

  4. But we didn’t give up on a kid from Maryland that was leaning heavily toward Georgetown? Was that “no secret”? 600 miles from Bloomington is a much greater distance from family than 3-hour drive from Gary to Bloomington.

    The coach of Indiana that led our team to three national titles did not shy away from recruiting Chicago and the nearby suburbs of Northwest/Northern Indiana. I’m baffled to the reasoning behind mapping this area a Boiler Recruiting Zone.

    Rivals site claims no visits to schools showing interest. I would surely hope the added distance from Lafayette to Bloomington(90 minute drive) would not be a deciding factor to sway the kid against Indiana. That seems incredibly absurd.
    I grew up in Northwest Indiana and managed to make many trips home during my days at IU..not a big deal..not a difficult drive.
    I wish Crean would not give up on this kid..Too many skills to let go so easily.

  5. Chill, I don’t know that Crean has given up on Dawson. I think the fan base, probably rightfully so, doubts that he will be a Hoosier. But Crean? Do you have something to point to that causes you to doubt his commitment to recruiting the kid? Just asking.

  6. yes, creek just helped out with moses. i don’t believe what i am hearing which is why i didn’t state anything. just curious if anybody else is hearing anything.

  7. I am hearing rumors about Hulls, Creek, and Watford in some kind of package deal. This package rumor might include Crean as well. I don’t believe what I am hearing, which is why I didn’t really state anything, but I figured I would post it online just to see what kind of response I get.

  8. I think the fan base, probably rightfully so, doubts that he will be a Hoosier.

    Why “rightfully so”? I probalbly don’t follow the recruiting scene like many of you, but I fail to understand why “the fan base” should give up on a recruit, a top-talent with a full remaining year high school, from attending IU.
    I see a lot of suggestions of Dawson’s desires…Can anyone tell me specifically where this information is found? Are there quotes from interviews?…Transcripts of discussions he’s had with his coaches? Just asking.

    Let me reword my wishes: I would hope that Crean pursues Dawson with the same intensity he went after Moses Abraham and not be discouraged by a thoroughly informed fan base on Scoop that has all but given up on a chance to ever see Dawson in a Hoosier uniform. The same fan base that found little similar reason to be equally discouraged about a kid heavily leaning toward Georgetown with very little time frame to be convinced a change of heart. I would think the door should be far from shut on Brandon Dawson.

  9. Chill-

    I thing GF is simply regurgitating the popular sentiment that we have really sunk to the bottom of the fish tank here in the state, and no 5 star player in their right mind would skip past 3 thriving programs like Butler, Purdue, and Notre Dame to come to Indiana. It pains to say this, for sure, but it’s true. We’ve been rebuked and spit on by the last three 5 stars that we thought we could go after (Selby, Irving, Xmas), we’ve been dumped by pip-squeak Carlino, and Moses held rabbit ears behind our heads for the last two weeks before finally telling us “let’s just be friends.”

    Here comes my point that you hate so much: the Dusty Banners ain’t workin’. The fact that 99% of college kids in America weren’t alive the last time that IU won a championship means a lot more than one trip to the championship game 7 years ago, and a near decade full of underachieving Bob Knight teams the 90’s that made a habit of losing in the first round.

    We are really going to have to earn our return to glory, but I have full faith in Verdell, our Fab Four Four Star players, and coach Crean. I just don’t think we are going to get much help from any other big name recruits until we start winning again.

  10. Barth-

    I believe we already have a very select group of talented kids that don’t look so down at the state of our program as you. I’ll never give up on the power of faith in our great basketball heritage. All programs hit hard times. Crean is a very convincing salesman our dusty banners that many of us still feel great pride in. I doubt he’s giving up on landing elite players not so shallow to think IU basketball is not worthy a look until comfortable winning ways return.
    I think we’re only a couple pieces in the puzzle from making a huge leap. That’s why I wouldn’t give up on a kid like Dawson..Somewhere there is a unique kid that thinks outside the immediate gratification, instant stardom box. A kid with more than an inkling of understanding just how close we are to breaking through..A kid that would love to be part of the tidal wave forming beyond our limited perspective. A kid that understands the game basketball and realizes how quickly fortunes can change with one key component unlocking the hopes of a young team hungry for victories and turning IU around. Maybe a kid from Indiana, maybe not…
    A humble kid with abundance of skill, faith in our program, belief in our coach, with every desire to wear candy-stripes and prove your pessimistic shortsightedness ass wrong.

  11. Oooh… a civilized response up till your last three words. I was just being honest, kiddo. And in case you didn’t notice, I also showed my faith in the program:

    but I have full faith in Verdell, our Fab Four Four Star players, and coach Crean. I just don’t think we are going to get much help from any other big name recruits until we start winning again.

    That isn’t such a dire assessment, is it? I didn’t say we should take our sights off of the Dawson’s; I just wouldn’t expect a bite.

    And let me say this: the future of the program is in the Dawsons, not the Zellers and Plumberlees.

  12. I used the phrase rightfully so to indicate that the reporters are saying that Dawson is a Purdue lean. Hugh said it on this very thread.

    So my previous post should not be taken as a statement of my opinion regarding our recruiting situation as a whole. Its just about Dawson, who I think the reporting suggests, as of today, will probably not come to IU. But hell, even my previous post indicates that I think Crean should continue recruiting him and you know he doesn’t let these fan sites influence his plans.

    I am certainly not regurgitating any sentiment about having sunk to the bottom in terms of our ability to recruit. That is not where we are by any means. We have a good shot at a number of high D1 prospects including Patterson, Zeller, DSR, Davis, et al. I think we will land our share.

  13. Having the practice facility really helps with our efforts now too…..how many teams in Indiana has nicer facilities then us?

  14. Barth-

    I dont’ think your statement is “dire”, but it does beg the question why even a 4-star talent would come to IU if the program fits your decrepit description. So weakened by lack of success and old age our banners…so stagnant and stalled our ship at sea, why should any level talent waste time on Indiana? Are there no uncommon 5-star players that can think like one of our many common 4-stars? I’ve done a lot of blog casting never expecting a bite and landed hell of a largemouth. Strangers things have happened in the recruiting/fishing world. Keep at it!

    Sorry I got uncivil, but I sometimes take small offense to statements claiming to know what I “hate so much”.

    For what it’s worth(obviously not much since you already know what I’m thinking), I agree with your last statement. I also believe the future of the program is in the Dawsons….We need more speed and athleticism.


    I’m not intending to badger you..I’m just curious where Hugh and “the reporters” are getting this information on Dawson?..Can’t they substantiate their claims? Is there anything in print quoting Dawson? Are we to assume this wholly factual assessment Dawson’s intentions of leaning toward Purdue is based on inside cut-and-dry information only privy to sports journalists?

  15. Chill–You’d have to ask them, I don’t know where they get their info. I assume its reliable, meaning that its not just guys talking to them make up. I think we both know nothing is cut and dried with college recruiting.

    Personally I think Dawson would be a great get for us.

  16. I also assume it’s reliable. Wouldn’t it be great to know the source?..Big difference between the towel boy hearing him throw the idea around in a locker room and someone with strong influence on his decision process.

    I also agree that Dawson would be a great addition. I think he fits Crean’s desire for a player that can create and cause “havoc”.

  17. Chili:

    In my humble opinion IU got the four 4-stars mostly before Crean coached a game. That’s one of the reasons we were able to land them – because they bought into the idea of promise, a promise illuminated by the faint glow of a dormant tradition of winning national championships. I love the kids for it, and I really, really do believe that Hulls, Creek, Watty, Elston, and VJ are going to be remembered with extra fondness by future Hoosier fans as “the ones who brought us back to powerhouse status.”

    At the same time, it is clear to me that recent recruiting challenges have shown that the really talented kids, including the 4-stars, have given up on that promise. They have seen our young whipper-snappers struggle, and they may have even read the fine literature out there by 4tards and Engel condemning the coach and begging for Alford. They have decided for whatever reason that IU isn’t going to matter again for a while.

    We should be happy to hang on to the Oladipos and Etheringtons for the moment, while we prove the world wrong. Let’s remember that Hoosiers like Wilmont, Calloway, Bassett, and VJIII were all 3-stars. Hell, even that ugly twerp John Shurna as a 3 star, and he might lead the league in scoring next year.

  18. This was only Crean’s second year. He may not land the elite players for a couple years. Winning more games would certainly help. It’s difficult to speculate how many more games we would have won with a healthy Creek and Roth..A team can catch a wave of momentum and carry it much further than imagined..I saw your predictions a while back on the blog..I think you predicted about 3 more wins with Creek and Roth..I think that was low. Purdue was nowhere near the same team without Hummel..I think IU’s loss of Creek had a far more detrimental effect on the Hoosiers…We didn’t have enough other scoring threats and depth on bench to ever get our legs back underneath us…We had been given a hefty blow and we played like a team in a dazed standing eight count the rest of the year..Nobody knew where to find the next scoring option. I also think we would have been in many more games up until the closing minutes; games that can hinge on a good break, opportune turnover, offensive rebound, or clutch shot..Basketball is a funny game..Remove on key element/player from the equation and many other variables can go haywire..If we can have the good fortune to stay healthy next year, I think we’ll be far more competitive..We have a couple more additions to give us added depth and scoring options..Recruits will start to notice..We may not land Dawson, but I think the quality/star level giving us a serious look will go up.

    In my humble opinion IU got the four 4-stars mostly before Crean coached a game.

    That may be true..And it may also be true that they would make the same decision today. I still believe in Indiana basketball. Maybe the kids that passed on us will go to a school where they can hang a banner. Maybe they’ll never have a single regret on passing up being a Hoosier. But what an unbelievable experience it will be for the first group to hear our crowd go into an incredible frenzy like never before..That’s the draw…That’s the enticement..I think there’s no better time for a kid coming out of high school to be a Hoosier..Indiana will soon be ready to burst at the seams. It will be truly special and forever memorable for the group of kids that will get it done..What a great honor to be the first to break through the dam of setbacks at Indiana..This is a time when our pickings are slim and the chances for fast winning may even be slimmer…But with the slim comes true character for we have separated out the steadfast determined kids that come to Indiana to fight her back to prominence from her unfortunate temporary lull rather than the easy choice to turn away averse to wearing the cream and crimson because it offers no guarantee personal fame..Can anyone look that kid in the eye and call him a loser? I don’t measure the worth of kids currently choosing Indiana on victories, loses, or an NCAA berth.. Our coach and the young recruits putting on the Hoosier uniform are already winners by following determined humble heart over guarantee a conceited stage.

  19. Reread and noticed ugly misspelling. Is there such a thing as an attractive misspelling? Yes, I once dated a very attractive, Miss Pelling.

    …victories, [losses], or an NCAA berth

  20. It is hilarious to me that before Roth got injured, everybody was throwing him under the bus saying he would be better off to transfer and he is a detriment to the team. I even had these arguments with GooFyDave about how he is our best 3 point shooter. GooFy thought he was worthless. But ever since the injury, people have been using him as part of an excuse to why we suck so bad.

  21. Chill
    “I think you predicted about 3 more wins with Creek and Roth.. I think that was low.”
    It sure sounds like you are using him as part of an excuse.

  22. I’m giving him added value. I’m saying with Roth(and, obviously, Creek) in the lineup we would have had more talent on the floor, thus the possibility of more wins…more than the 3 Fairchild predicted a few weeks back.
    Would you like me to show you old posts where I spoke of the absence Roth weakening our team?
    I’ll be happy to do so. I’ve never throw Roth under the bus. I challenge you to find one post I spoke against the kid. It aint out there. Is this how you gather your Alford facts?

  23. I’ve never [thrown] Roth under the bus..

    I’ll stick with “Chill”. Far too much positive feelings attached to the name Downing’s 5th.

  24. I never said you personally talked bad about Roth, but many people did before the injury. I believe the only person I singled out was GooFyDave.

  25. Whether or not Roth would have scored a lot of points, Downing has a point in that his mere presence on the court as someone who can hit the deep shot would have altered the dynamic of many contests. Our godawful performance from beyond the arc was a major reason for our 11 game losing streak. Hell, we went “0-fer” against Iowa this first time. Like D said, you pull the plug on something seemingly as simple as a guy who can hit a 3, and the whole system goes haywire.

    It’s no shock that when Hulls got hot against Northwestern, just like Roth 2 years ago at OSU, the games stayed real close, despite our youth.

    And I’ll now await as 4tards, the “man of reason” who shows “respect” to the Armon(d)s of the world, concocts a progressively damning response.

  26. One other point:

    It’s difficult to speculate how many more games we would have won with a healthy Creek and Roth

    I was implying that the availability of both players in the lineup would have likely added more than 3 extra victories to the entire season’s totals. Obviously, getting Roth back without Creek would have had far less impact to better outcomes in games we suffered to find scoring/wins. Creeks ability to create, move with the ball and draw defenders, would have given Roth more setup opportunities from the perimeter. I had posts months ago discussing the many lost dimensions/options in our offensive game due to the combined absence of two efficient outside threats…Obviously, Creek’s game is far more multidimensional and thus a much bigger blow to the team due to his loss. In addition, another guard that can penetrate does wonders to free up the inside game.

    It will take me some time to find the posts..I was using multiple blogging names back then. I’ll go digging if you need see the words in front of you.

  27. Husky-

    You always add nice applied examples and clarity to my thoughts/posts. Appreciated. “Dynamic” was a nice choice.

  28. FatTom,
    I have always valued Roth as a player. I wasn’t included in one of the people who ridiculed him before the injury and jumped on his bandwagon after the injury.
    Once again I never said you were one of the people talking bad about Roth. I just used your example as to what people are saying to use Roth as PART of the excuse.

  29. It sure sounds like you are using him as part of an excuse.

    That’s your statement. There’s your “example”. You’re like a used car salesman..

  30. 4tards: My comment about Roth is two fold. Against the empirical hard evidence that you refused to accept, Dumes was the better 3 point shooter two seasons ago. I never thought or used the word worthless. That’s something your making up. Like rumors you can’t talk about.

    Also, I think Roth is a defensive liability. If that’s bashing the kid, then so be it. Shut down the blog, we’ve got nothing we can talk about.

  31. 4tards- You gotta do better than “fattom.” Engel/L’accent called me “Hussie Tom” which I thought was pretty creative and mildly insulting. But “fat tom”? A 3 year old could come up with something more insulting than that. In the end, though your intellect is only that of an 8 year old, so I guess it is to be expected.

  32. Still not sold. That sounds indifferent. You’ll want to do better if you wish for something to stick. Why not ask Engel/L’accent, your biggest pal Crean-hating pal, for help? After all, I think it was he who came up with Sausage, Tan Cream, Prom Queem and other names.

  33. Aww, shucks. I guess we will have to continue to wait for the great Husky Tom nickname, to go along with 4tards, GooFyDave, and Clairy-yawn (that one never caught on).

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