Hoosier Morning

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There is a large crop of prospects in the state of Indiana for Tom Crean and other college head coaches to go after. David Snodgress | Herald-Times

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Glee comes back tonight. The wife and I are, to put it mildly, excited. Here is Lea Michelle, one of the cast members, singing “Gives You Hell.”

97 comments

  1. Well, I hope Cody Larson isn’t another MOAB – a guy that we all start to get pumped and excited about, only to see him slip away at the last second.

    That being said, it seems like if we snagged him, that would be a pretty good get for an 11th-hour recruit. Let’s go TC! Let’s go Hoosiers!!

  2. I think if Lickliter and also Drew from Baylor were recruiting him he should have solid potential for IU.

  3. Why would he have ever signed with Iowa, Alford screwed that program up so bad even Calipari could not turn it around!

  4. Sounds like a promising role player and we could use the big body. If he is anything like the typical Iowa wide bodies, then I’m all for him becoming a Hoosier.

  5. JPat,
    Alford’s last season, he was tied for 4th place in the big 10. That is actually pretty good for a school like Iowa. The program crashed when he left, and they couldn’t hire anybody good enough to fill his shoes.

  6. He’s a 3 star so crean comes up short again. We need more Indiana kids. Crean ignore them and the coaches are mad.

  7. Inquiring minds want to know:
    Lute Olson @ Iowa 1974-1983
    168-90 – 65%, 5 NCAAs
    George Raveling @ Iowa 1983-1986
    55-38 – 60% 2 NCAAs
    Tom Davis @ Iowa 1986-1999
    269-140 – 66% 9 NCAAs and 2 NITs
    Steve Alford @ Iowa 1999-2007
    152-106 – 55% – 3 NCAAs and 3 NITs

  8. Wow, it’s easy to see why Iowa fired him. The worst winning percentage coach in four decades and he got to follow Tom Davis. That’s a pretty easy transition. It’s also important to remember that it’s much easier to get to the Big Dance now than it used to be.

  9. Iowa didn’t fire him. He left, and Iowa immediately went in the tank. Kind of like what happened to us when Crean came in. Except Iowa was smart enough to rid themselves of Lickliter when he couldn’t perform.

  10. That wasn’t me posting it was some 13 year old impersonating me. I’m flattered. Alford did great at Iowa and is now creating a dynasty at Mexico.

  11. Millport with “facts” cannot be outflanked.

    Also just heard Clemson has hired Brad Brownell away from Wright State. He was my favorite for IU coach prior to Crean being announced. He was a team mate with Chaney in HS.

  12. Correct HT, and he still pays homage to his idol Alford. As Joe Louis said “he can run but he can’t hide” and that would be the situation with coach4disreguards and facts. Millport found him hiding.

  13. Facts:
    Steve Alfords last 3 seasons
    21-12
    25-9
    17-14 (4th place in big 10)
    3 Seasons after Alford left them
    13-19
    15-16
    10-22
    Another Fact: JPat is the one who brought up Alford on this thread.

  14. Also, about Larson – Larson’s family has driven through Indiana many times. I might be willing to cut him a deal and let him me considered a Hoosier in my mind. Plus, he looks like an Indiana kid, if you know what I mean.

  15. FACT: SA’s 55% tenure started the retreat from winning tradition at Iowa City, he was ruining a good thing and had to personally retreat to MW’s weaker competition caliber. Ours started with md.

  16. I don’t really post responses directly to 4guards much. Most of what I post is for other people to at least have some facts before considering what 4guards has to say. I really don’t feel that many folks need the information but it does satisfy my own curiosity.
    Has anyone else noticed that 4guards has started to call people idiots? At one time 4guards stated that he never called people names unless it was retaliation. That does not appear to be case any longer.

  17. Millport,
    You my friend are too easily fooled by poor attempts of impersonation. This 13 year old lurking around on here has done so under my name.
    I remain civil.

  18. Alford at Iowa:

    1. Could barely fill half the arena with fans.

    2. Had a difficult to work with rep according to other Iowa coaches and Iowa basketball operation people.

    3. Gave a player a second chance that he should not have.

    4. Ran players off from being too arrogant and a jerk.

    5. Boosters were pulling out left and right because he was difficult to work with and losing more than he should have.

    6. Could not recruit toward the end because of his bad rep.

    7. Had terrible hair!

    Check archived newspapers from Iowa and the student newspaper for info on the above things I mentioned. It all happened! I love Alford and know he would have had some success at IU but I am not sure he would have done much better than Davis or Crean at IU.

  19. Crean at Indiana
    1. attendance at IU is down under Crean ($5 balcony seats?)
    2. Has a difficult to work with rep
    3. Gave nobody a second chance that he should have
    4. Runs players off from being a jerk
    5. Boosters are pulling out left and right because of losing more than he should be
    6. Cannot recruit even with the IU tradition
    7. Has terrible skin! I know you guys will get a kick out of that one.
    Check archived paper from Marquette and the student newspaper and message boards for info on the above things I mentioned. It all happened!

  20. nice try, I stated newspaper and media based facts from Alford at Iowa!

    your #1 holds some truth but the Sampson thing caused it. I know, I got the call for season tickets after he was let go after a 9 year waiting list!

    The rest of what you say is YOUR opinion, enough said and nice try!

  21. oh, on the last comment…I am on as many message boards as anyone and do feel although I hate to say that I am somewhat connected in B town…you spit lies!!!

    and someone has to call you on the lies!!!

  22. Alfords red blazer makes me hot in the you know where. That’s a fact. You just cant beat his looks.

  23. which number or numbers do you believe to be a lie? They are actually all true. The skin thing was a joke of course.

  24. Crean is a jerk that doesn’t care to give druggies and class skipping student athletes a thirds forth fitth chance.

  25. 4guards’ claim of “civility” goes out the door when it comes to the coach of the IU basketball team.

    Crean is a dedicated, optimistic, gentelmanly guy that is well-respected and deserves at least three years to prove himself. Hell, he has already shown signs of improvement, which, as difficult as it may seem in our culture of Wal Mart, adjustable rate mortgages and 30 second cheeseburgers, doesn’t always happen overnight.

    It’s ok to not like the guy, but to need to drag him through the mud every day, 4tards deserves all the treatment he gets.

  26. now after the above comments I cannot take you seriously. I am still waiting for you to answer to the things I read in the Des Moines Register I think it was called and the Hawkeye student newspaper.

  27. 1 out of 7 and that one is marginally correct. Not bad when flying by the seat of your pants using pseudo facts.

  28. 4G, no opinions were factored in and I am not wasting my time looking it up. Funny that is how you come back at me. I have family in Iowa and read at least the 2 papers I mentioned and remember many times reading the things I listed up top. I am busy at work and having a great day on this thread.

    Food for thought: if Alford had not been a jerk and tried to kick Greenspan out of a practice many years ago, maybe Greenspan would have hired him. Also, let’s be honest…if the IU bloodline faithful wanted Alford he would be here because he made it known he wanted the IU job both times it was open. He simply has a “jerk” reputation and was average at best at Iowa! Cooked his own Goose!

  29. Jpat,
    You are correct about Greenspan’s grudge on Alford. Greenspan is a loser though and Alford knew it before most.

  30. Jimmy- not sure about that. That’s like saying that the crow up in the tree is going to stop squawking if no one listens to it. A crow is a crow.

  31. Greenspan brought us the tanned sausage. His legacy will always be a putrid one. To think he could have given the job to a good IU boy like Dakich…

  32. …and the 3rd check mark on the plus side of the column is he did not hire Alford(not up to B10 competition)…I would say the loser was and is Alford…

  33. Dakich was given the job and failed. IU could have kept him and paid him a low salary but he could not take a team with White and Gordon passed a sorry Arkansas team. I don’t care how much dope was smoked, class was missed, and F’s were given…my grandma could have coached and won 3 or 4 games in the dance with them…

  34. Dakitch is my kind if IU guy if you know what I mean. He would have been better than crean who is going to have a exodus of transfers.

  35. JPat- not so simple, I am afraid. That Sampson team was underachieving even before the violations were revealed. I am still bitter about that team. Wiht a healthy Gordon and DJ, they were annihilated by an injured, unranked UConn team at home, they barely brushed by an unranked Georgia Tech team at home, they needed a lucky bank shot to beat an 11-18 Illinois team, and then when the sh%t finally hit the fan, they started losing to the Minnesotas and Penn States of the world.

    Like EJ said, the team had some major problems with entitlement, weed smoking, and general discipline. A certain blogger on here will tell you that they at least they played hard, which they did; he may even call us all hypocrites and call EJ a snitch. But let’s be honest: that team was flawed.

  36. Just think of the team we could have had if tancrean didn’t run everyone out of town. He should have had a prayer vigil with the troubled players and given them a chance.

  37. JPat,

    The last two posters are imitators. I am the real 4guards. Although I agree with the last 4guards about the troubled kids. Prayer and repentance would have solved everything.

  38. Dougy, do you come here expecting to find wisdom and truth? If you don’t like it, read the article, then leave. Some of us here are engaged in an important conflict to eliminate a cancer from the blog. Have you heard of chemotherapy? It is a very unpleasant and rigorous process, but it can get rid of the problem. This is blogging chemotherapy.

  39. first, i come here expecting to talk basketball. second, if you think you can eliminate someone from the blog you are illogical. you trying to eliminate someone will only make them want to piss you off more. 3rd, dont compare cancer to a blog.

  40. This person posing as me is in no way going to cause me to leave this blog. The only thing they are doing is probably speeding up the log in process, which may be a good thing.

  41. Question: What is 4guards most preferred method for “speeding up the log in process” on Hoosier Scoop?

    Answer: Lock him in a room with Steve Alford.

  42. Husky Tom I’ve spent the better part of an hour thinking about your post and I conclude like you the team became more divided as the season advanced. They was a confused good part and a confusing bad part and when DD was named interim and a different culture(with strong Greenspan support)was introduced neither portion of the target audience responded in a way to make the team stronger. In other words, no matter what my thoughts are on DD’s coaching proficiency, his opportunity to succeed at the end of a season was drastically less than any other interim coach in my memory. Of course I support his off court actions with player personnel and on court at that point in time most of those players were beyond anyone’s coaching ability. I do not blame Gordon or White for declaring early after the life experience they had just lived for 7 months.

  43. Doug- I can compare anything I want to anything I want. All that is holy is profaned; all that is solid melts into air.

  44. Clarion- It’s a sad story, really. All that talent and promise never lived up to half its potential. Heck we even got manhandled by Xavier that year when everyone was supposed to be on all cylinders. I think that EJ and DJ might have been the only ones with their head on their shoulders that year.

    Mel Hall- you are awesome. Why Mel Hall? Are you Terry Cummings as well?

  45. Please…You can’t look at that season as if the NCAA witch hunt didn’t exist. Teams will always have games they lose, when on paper, they should have won. Now we have narrowed the team down to two decent human beings? Winning would have swept it all under the rug.

  46. Husky and Clarion, the team was flawed yes…but it was time to dance and Arkansas was bad. Rally the troops and motivate!!! I still say that team could have won 3 games in the dance no matter what.

  47. JP by then a part of that team that played major minutes did not care if IU won or not, maybe even would rather lose.

  48. ^That’s the most ridiculous crap I’ve ever read. You sound like 4guards in rewind. In two years you’ll be jumping on his bandwagon and claiming Crean’s players wanted to lose so they could have Alford as coach..It’s quite an exaggerated level of pomposity to think you can get into players heads..I watched those Sampson kids play some gritty basketball. Stemler used to throw his body all over the court for loose balls..Now you want to throw him under a bus? Eric Gordon took the ball to the rim like a fearless warrior..He had a few bad games, but he never backed down or played soft..And was their ever a Hoosier that exemplified more effort and perseverance than DJ White? How many guys could have kept their head held high through the injuries and turmoil he faced during his years as a Hoosier? Is their no room in your heart for his loyalty? Did he ever give an interview to an unscrupulous journalist seeking sensationalism and save his own skin by throwing ex-teammates/coaches to the media wolves? Is it because he lacks your integrity? And though the mountain of accusations continue to grow against the few bad apples for their conduct off the court, I never remember watching a single game they didn’t play hard and with good sportsmanship. Sour grapes coming from all of you. They had their coach ripped away from them on the eve of the NCAA tournament over the most frivolous recruiting investigation ever conducted in the history of college sports. It doesn’t matter what you think of Sampson…You’re casting way too long a dark shadow of a season with no regard the decency of many fine young Hoosiers you should be proud of. I will not be part of that lynch mob.

  49. Clarion, you might be right I don’t know. It is done and over with.

    Chill, only part of what you wrote that I don’t agree with is the sportsmanship part…Ellis several times went after other kids for NO reason…maybe I am being nitpicky.

  50. The team tried hard, and I have backed off calling them a bunch of thugs. But they severely underachieved. That much is unmistakable. Calling everyone else hypocrites saying that they played hard doesn’t make the underachievement go away.

    I’m not talking about the witch hunt period. I am willing to concede that the witch hunt could it hard for anyone to focus. Before that – Connecticut, Xavier, Georgia Tech, Illinois – they struggled against the better competition. Some of us like myself got sucked into thinking they were elite, but they were far from it.

  51. Chill,

    I find it pompous for you to tell me what I may or may not be saying, doing or feeling in two years. That team underachieved because parts of it did not have the goal of achieving as a team. Some were there only to serve themselves and it escalated when KS departed. The last five games when some were not coachable are proof enough. Please find in any of my posts where I named Stemler, White, Gordon or Taber as being negative to the team. I do not view them as the “rotten apples”. I have no understanding how you drew that conclusion. It is not hard to read between the lines of my posts.

  52. The same arguments lacking validity can be made of any team. I don’t think they were underachievers..They were not a team with an abundance of 5-star talent like Calipari’s Kentucky group of thoroughbreds from last season…In two to three years, with addition of new top-tier recruits and added depth, there was potential for being something approaching a team that would be expected to make a deep tournament run. Did DJ White have the versatility(inside-outside aspect) in his game comparable to a Patrick Patterson? Were we that strong at the forward positions? Were Mike White and Lance Stemler in the same league as Derek Elston and Christian Watford in two years? Given the dark cloud over their coach.. given the Yacht Club bigots with purposefully exaggerated expectations continually hanging high over their heads, coupled with the hunger and pressure exerted by unrealistic well-intentioned Hoosier fans that think banners should never go dusty because they’re handed out like cotton candy at the Indiana State Fair, I think the team overachieved..They had a truly remarkable athlete that provided the backbone of the team..Without Gordon’s ability to take the ball to the basket, get to the line, and furnish key points in big games, they may have barely been a .500 team…It was obvious there was a lack of cohesiveness after Sampson was ripped from the team. I never saw any indication that guys were playing to serve themselves during the majority of the season. In the last two years I’ve seen plenty of selfish demonstrations(ball-hogging, forced shots instead of looking to teammates, tongues sticking out, elbows thrown, arguing with coach, disgruntled hissy fits between players, hot-tempered assistant coaches overreacting to guys wanting to celebrate) that could easily be construed as more indicative a group of Hoosiers lacking a team-oriented focus and brotherly bond.

    I know where this is going..I followed it like drooling dog to biscuit…It’s why Husky Tom drops this bait every few months. When I defend these guys, numerous attempts will be made to claim I’m not a true fan…I’m a Crean-hater…I’m a guy that doesn’t want to hold kids accountable for their actions…doesn’t go to church every Sunday…doesn’t wash behind his ears..I was a pothead in college and thus defend the Sampson losers….blah..blah..blah.
    Form your lynch party with the NCAA rope…I’m not buying into pretending to know kids thoughts or making claims they didn’t want to succeed. I think that is ludicrous. With the exception of Finkelmeier, I liked every kid that played on the Sampson team. I loved the mixture of personalities and enjoyed watching them play..My eyes were witness to many moments I saw guys show true heart for their coach and their teammates. As I said, I don’t care if my opinions fall into the same unforgiving living room built with four walls stronger a higher virtue.

  53. The “Finkelmier” comment was intended facetious..I like Fink and thought it was unfair to redshirt the kid in his final season..He was a strong defender and a more than decent assist man.

  54. Your opinion or mine about what that team achieved or not is plausible. But for you or any one else to tell me what I may or may not do in two years I reject with disdain.

  55. Reject at will. I still think any suggestion those kids wanted to lose is ludicrous. It’s not that difficult to extrapolate into the future your gift of peering into brains thus making more ridiculous claims.

  56. Our differing opinions about that team are debatable. You cannot dodge that I reject with disdain your statement that you or anyone else knows what I may do or not do in two years.

  57. Not trying to dodge it. Don’t care if you reject it. And I don’t care the time, if you so decide again, to be such pompous ridiculer to make more claims you have the ability to look inside brains and suggest Hoosiers are throwing games. You cannot dodge the lunacy and unfairness of such vulgar remark.

  58. Please find a quote by me stating anyone was throwing games then bring it to my attention.

  59. I can debate hard and long that the small percentage of guys labeled by your hideous suggestion had every desire to win. I don’t need piss like “maybe” to believe any Hoosiers sold their competitive soul to the devil..Find you’re own words and chew on them. They tend to may make me sick.

  60. …find [your] own words and chew on them.

    I do not blame Gordon or White for declaring early after the life experience they had just lived for 7 months.

    That quote doesn’t make me ill, but I don’t think it’s accurate. Wasn’t White a senior?

  61. Whenever there is a thread that gets up into the 80s, you can bet that Clarion and someone else are involved in a bitter showdown. Been there, done that.

  62. Senior yes, but I believe he had a year of eligibility left if he so wished to use it. But yet you dodge producing proof for near everything you have accused me of, making your words about those accusations of me hollow.

  63. I can live with hollow accusations aimed at insinuations cowardly filled with disgrace.

    I suggest you pack up your own damn quote and twist it any manner you choose..Spend the next two years searching for the ex-Hoosiers, the selected “part of that team” implied, your unnamed few, knock on their door in your highfalutin shoes with the same hideous suggestions they be indifferent a care if they “won or not”.. Could only hope they deliver a kiss to the dignified words by bigotry you “maybe even would rather lose”.

  64. Your empty allegations and words of defamation to Hoosiers you cowardly won’t name is proof of pudding just the same.

  65. Chill are you impaired by something, do you ever reread what you write, because much in your posts are incoherent? That would explain your dodging the issues about finding proof to substantiate what you say I will be posting in two years and where I ever stated games were thrown. You are not staying focused. Maybe a nap is in order for you. I will come back later to discuss these things some more, when you are feeling better and more coherent.

  66. I must be impaired..I have no career..I’m nearly half century old and I take for granted a hard-working wife and beautiful child..I spent the last few hours trying to cleverly defend some Hoosier basketball players that I shouldn’t give a rat’s ass about..You pretty much hit the nail on the head. I doubt sleep will help. Can you come over to my place and knock the crap out of me?

  67. I knew there was a good reason Husky Tom liked you. Now I know the reason too. Talk to you later once I get the hook, line and sinker out of my mouth.

  68. You guys are alright, you know. Underneath all the crap we spew about, underneath all the petty arguments, I can tell with y’all that there is some serious substance to you…

    D, no more self-denigrating for the day, ok? It’s all going to be ok, like a baklava with a scoop of ice cream….

  69. ok.
    I guess when I was only about two or three years old, my grandpa died..He was a railroad man in southern Indiana..He lost his job after the Depression and was never quite the same…I don’t have any memories..just old photos..My mom would later tell me stories of how much he cherished me and the many hours in his rocking chair he’d plop me in his lap and watch sports on the television…Guess we watched a lot of boxing and baseball together before our short time passed and he whispered my name to say goodbye to me in his final breath..I think I was his best buddy in the world…the only grandson of his only daughter.

    I’m forever thankful your friendship and kindness, Tom. It restores my hope we seek the good in each other and the faith my grandpa’s heart lives eternal.

  70. I didn’t realize that Peter Paul and Mary were Jewish. Nor that one of the guys had a combover as bad as Gene Keady.

    Thanks for sharing the moment, D.

  71. Good memories and (hopefully) good descendants is all we leave behind. That was a good one D5.

  72. Clarion-

    I’m a catch and release blogger..Just wanted to tell you I know you’re a decent guy. We have strong opinions. And like the world of issues we engage, it takes time to soften outer shells and realize things don’t need be absolute.

    I’m glad you heard those words from Husky Tom.

  73. D- What did I do that deserves “getting back”? We better leave this thread. Once a thread is moved to the “previous entries” page, I lose interest.

    See you over there!

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