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Ohio State Indiana basketball

Indiana coach Tom Crean walks the sideline during a game last season. Chris Howell | Herald-Times

AT HERALDTIMESONLINE.COM

  • Two-Bloomington players (North’s Julian Boatner and South’s Erik Fromm) both made the Indiana All-Stars, I wrote. The team has three prospects headed to Purdue, one to Michigan State and two to Butler.

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69 comments

  1. Nice work, Hugh, once again.

    I can’t wait to hear more recruiting news. I keep checking Rivals to see if IU has been added to Larson’s “school” list. I think this would be a pretty great last-second get.

  2. The Indiana All Star team has 3 going to Purdue , 2 going to Butler , and absolutely nothing going to IU. This is defintely not the way to get back.

  3. Hugh has Aaron Thomas as our next likely commit??
    wow. How about all that Indiana talent? The nose goes higher in the air with another out of state lowly ranked wing.

  4. It isnt an absolute necessity to get Indiana kids–we didnt this year! Having said that I want Indiana kids just as bad as anyone. In time Crean will be able to get them. He was left with a big mess and he is working his way out of it. I fully understand why kids arent coming yet any moron should know why? If your wanting to point fingers point them at Davis and Sampson and mainly the IU administration for not doing their job! Coach Crean didnt cause this issue and I believe when he accepted the job he didnt fully understand how bad the program was run? Just my guess! By 2011/2012 I believe we will be back in the thick of things and we will have a decent team to compete. The Indiana kids will want to come then and we will get a few really diehard kids from Indiana who want to bring our program back to where it was(we have a couple now). LEts see if I were a kid and could chose from IU Butler and Purdue which one would I choose — with the records do I need to say more! Rome wasnt built in a day and neither will this program be rebuilt in 2 or 3 years! If it gets built quicker there will be a problem like we had before! Just wait Kentucky is playing with a time bomb, or at least I believe so!

  5. Here’s a quote from Aaron:

    “I feel like Indiana might be good for me,” Thomas said. “I am really feeling Indiana right now. I’ll see during the summer, but I like them a lot. Indiana has good academics, its’ the biggest sport there and they have coach Crean and great history.”

    Sounds like exactly the type we want. A guy who loves IU, knows the history, and wants to be here. He even wants to go to class.

    He is much preferable to some pompous Zeller or Plumlee who treats Indiana like the ugly girl at the prom.

  6. “Thomas noted that he hears mostly from Crean himself and is also being recruited by West Virginia, Michigan, Cincinnati, Louisville and Ohio State.”

    4guards — you seriously take issue with IU being in on a guy who’s also being recruited by the schools listed above?

    Believe it or not, there are a handful of good players in the country who aren’t from Indiana.

  7. I take issue with it because we do not need another wing. Going outside of Indiana is fine for elite talent or filling a need. This guy is neither.
    Save the scholarship for Zeller, Plumlee, Davis, Teague, Dawson, Gant
    Can Crean not bring in elite talent?, 2011 is his 4th recruiting class

  8. Hammer, your post is my sentiments to a tee. HT as usual you make a sharp point. I like all recruits brought in by Coach Crean no matter what position they play or class year they are in, and I am giving him a lot of leeway for his plan to work before I will feel different.

  9. I really like Thomas. He has the potential to replace Creek as the team’s go-to scorer.
    If Tom Crean has been clear about anything, 4guards, its that he’s not looking at any class as “I can only take so many guys …” He’s finding players he can fit into his system and figuring out how to make the scholarship situation work later. I would not worry too much that taking a kid from Ohio means one less kid from Indiana.

  10. It makes me incredulous to think that after the last decade, which saw all kinds of turbulence for the IU program including 4 different coaches, and after finally finding a coach with a superb record from a big conference willing to take over the program, that there could be people out there who want yet another coaching change already.

    It really does say something about the stupidity of society’s fringe elements.

  11. IU has always recruited the Cincy area. This is nothing new and I would argue its very much natural for us to be involved there.

    In the last year Crean has gotten involved with kids that have caused somebody to wince; eg David Williams and Brandon Mobley. At the end of the day those players didn’t sign. I think its fair to say that Crean prioritizes his targets and that some players will be signed only if the top priorities commit elsewhere.

    Finally I would add that signing day for 2011 is far off and anything could happen and I hope we get our share of Indiana kids.

  12. Creans recruiting strategy is interesting. I know we have heard it before that he likes to just take what he can get and let things work out. My question to everyone is are we/should be okay with this?

    On one hand I love getting recruits just like everyone else. It feels good to have kids coming here, and getting our hopes up. If we can keep getting upgraded talent, then why not?

    On the other, I don’t want to be seen as a program or coach that has a ‘don’t let the door hit you on the way out’ persona. Zoubek for Duke was a huge dissapointment until this year, and he was a key player for them on a Championship team. If you are a solid glue guy that all championship teams need and have, but you see the guy before you get pushed out why would you want to come here and get pushed out if we think we have someone new yet unproven to get excited about?

  13. I think since Cincy is the place the Hoosiers like to look – maybe someone should hit the Bearcat Classic this weekend – just to “observe” – I know there are at least two southern Indiana boys that can play D1 – and one of them is a 6′-8″ center, who is a complete package – can play ball AND carries a 3.98 gpa. If Crean is looking for some help down low – he needs to have someone looking at TSI’s Red Team 2011. I have to agree – I think IU has plenty at the perimeter – they need some help down under in a big way.

  14. One thing people need to realize is that Ohio is still part of IU’s “backyard.” Just as important as recruiting your home state is recruiting well in your backyard.

    Look at how well Matta has done by considering Indiana part of his backyard. You can’t just zero in on the artificial and constructed political boundaries of a state line to pull in local talent.

    Aaron Thomas is being recruited by every good school in Ohio, as well as Louisville and Michigan. Midwest schools. No reason IU shouldn’t be over there too. You recruit your region hard. Period.

  15. I agree Husky Tom – I saw Aaron Thomas play this past weekend at the IndyBall Shootout – Crean needs to be after him like everyone else is.

  16. Other things to consider with the recruiting in present time vs. the old are communications which put you in touch with someone across the country as fast as walking across the room. You know things like fax, email, twitter and of course the “cellular” phone made world famous by the now shadowy character Kelvin Sanctions.

  17. After watching ESPN U signing day special yesterday it really saddened me not to see any top notch recruits going to INDIANA this year.
    I guess the new practice facility didn’t open to many recruits eyes.What are we missing in the recruiting equation? Our coaches work as hard,if not harder than anyone in college basketball trying to turn this thing around.I know Kelvin set us back a few years over phone calls,I think USC has a better recruiting class then we do,and they paid OJ. Mayo. What gives ???

  18. Loved the Victor Oladipo story. As a father, it would be a tough choice of wanting your son to go to Harvard for academics or IU for basketball. Seeing kentucky’s recruiting hall yesterday put me in a funk about college hoops in general but reading VO’s story was a breath of fresh air.

  19. Steve,

    Simple answer: Victories. Guaranteed trips to the NCAA tournament. The chance to compete for conference championships year in and year out. Right now we can’t offer those things.

    When we do, you’ll see a lot of great recruits filing in. Right now, Crean needs to show that he can develop 3 and 4-star players and mold them into a reasonably successful team.

    Most recruits want to come in and be the final piece of the puzzle that pushes a team over the edge, not the cornerstone of a slow rebuilding process.

    Essentially, Crean needs to get a team to overachieve for a season. If he can, you’ve gotta think the flood gates will open up.

  20. steve,
    You can almost eliminate the stud bigs from the get go because they don’t want to play in this dribble drive offense where we don’t feed the post. Crean also has a reputation of not being able to develop big men.

  21. There wasn’t anyone on our team in the last two years that could handle the post. So why keep dumping it in there?

  22. Steve, I think it is as simple as negative recruiting by other programs. Kyrie Irving hinted to it and Crean has too several times. I bet the farm that Georgetown did it and so did Duke. I also wonder if that is why Crean is so cold to Thad Matta. When IU has a good season of 18-20 wins, the other schools will not be able to say…Don’t go there, they cannot compete!

  23. steve- I understand your sadness, but look at it this way. Even in a difficult recruiting year IU nabbed 2 Rivals Top 150 players, and were on the final lists for Irving and Selby, two 5-star players.

    For what it’s worth, Arizona a program who missed the tourney last year for the first time in two decades, also has only two players from the top 150. Steve Alford has only one player from the top 150.

    We add one more guy like Larson and we will be back to a respectable, albeit smaller, recruiting class. Here’s to hoping it happens.

    As for why we are in this position, see Casey’s post.

    Crean worked magic with pulling in last year’s class. He got those kids in the door and sold them on the rebuilding process. They are the nucleus that is going to get this thing going again. 4-star players who stick around are the key to any such process; they are much more valuable than one-and-dones.

  24. It is a pretty sad day when New Mexico has a higher rated recruit than us.. and by over 20 spots at that.

  25. Yes it’s so sad, Crean should quit and all IU fans should go bury their heads in the sand while you continue to gloat about IU’s struggles.

  26. 4guards,

    I commend you for your attempt at clever wording, but you’re statement that Crean has “a reputation of not being able to develop big men” is not an accurate or fair statement — which doesn’t surprise me.

    With whom does he hold this reputation? I’ve literally never heard that before.

    I think it would be fair to say that Crean doesn’t have a distinguished reputation for excelling in the development of big men. But there are very few people saying Crean lacks the ability to do so.

    Besides, the responsibility of developing big men usually falls specifically on one of the assistant coaches. IU recognized a deficiency there and dealt with it (see McLeod’s exit).

    No one’s going around talking about how bad Crean is at developing bigs.

    My favorite thing about you is your proclivity for just plain making things up. It’s both amusing and annoying.

  27. Central Michigan has a higher rated recruit (#26) than Purdue (#46)…by 20 spots. What a sad day for the Boilers.

    Florida International has a higher rated recruit than Maryland… by 13 spots. What a sad day to be a Terp fan.

  28. Also 4guards,

    It’s “sad” that New Mexico has a higher rated recruit than us?

    That’s interesting coming from you. What, with your constant Alford ass-kissery on this site, you have me thinking at every top-tier player would consider it an honor and a privilege to play under the command of one of the best coaches ever to don the whistle in Steve Alford.

    If Alford’s such a great coach, and has turned New Mexico into such a solid program, then why is it surprising that he would draw a top recruit?

    Is this your unintentional admission that Alford isn’t God’s gift to coaching?

    You’re tying yourself up in your own ridiculous logic here…

  29. Thanks Tom for your thoughts.I think Tom Crean will get it turned around.I think he is still the one for this job.It’s just tough seeing the guy down south getting all the top kids.Although he had 5 first round draft picks,and couldn’t get it done.

  30. Over an 11 year career of not having a post game of course you are going to form a reputation.
    Alford is doing a spectacular job, but New Mexico is no IU and should be much harder to bring in top talent.

  31. Isn’t it funny how my name quickly dropped from 4guards list of IU messiahs? At the beginning of the year, he was talking about me and Steve in the same breath

    Funny how quickly 4guards swept me under the carpet once I started losing (shhhh!!!).

    I’m sure if (when) Alford starts to tank it, 4guards will have another messiah picked out; maybe Randy Wittman?

    By the way, how many Rivals Top 150 players did Texas Tech have this year? LMAO.

  32. way to dodge the comment about FIU pulling in a better recruit. oh thats right it doesnt fit your pathetic logic

  33. Wow. Despite the disagreement and our current struggles, no one can argue with the importance of IU hoops. It’s mid-April after our 2nd worse season ever and people are into it, day after day, basically re-hashing the same tired lines. I love IU hoops, but it’s exhausting.

    At this point, whether anyone likes it or not, Crean’s gonna be here for another year and recruit who he sees fit and who he can. Let it go and enjoy the summer. Hope the football team can shore up the D and we can be bowl eligible with some nice wins by the time hoops season starts and we can see how the team has developed and how the new guys can help.

  34. How about Wake Forest, a team that had a brief glimpse of #1 in the polls not too long ago, firing their coach and hiring a guy out of Colorado who can’t win in the Big 12? Seems like an odd hire. I’m sure 4tards will think it’s because of Colorado’s proximity to New Mexico, so save your breath.

  35. Chet- Wake simply couldn’t recruit enough NC kids to be a real program. The coach dared to go out of state, and landed too much out of state talent.

    By the way, Elston Turner, former Washington standout, is transferring and is now available, and wants to be closer to his home in Texas. The guy is Rod Wilmont, reincarnate. Here’s to hoping Crean gives him a look!

  36. Casey, This big man meme being sold by 4guards is in the style of his “Crean doesn’t recruit Indiana” and “Crean’s players transfer too much” clap trap. He repeatedly throws out these false strawmen in the hopes that they catch on. There’s never any evidence to support his allegations and its all just part of his game.

  37. I do remember Pat Knight being 4guards 2nd favorite head coach to Steve Alford when his team was ranked in the top 25.

  38. In regards to not recruiting Indiana, he has had 3 recruiting classes and we only have 2 scholarship Indiana kids. That is a fact. In regards to Crean having many transfers, they were all laid out on this very blog. (still waiting for a Korman piece). This is a fact.
    I like Pat Knight as a coach, much better than what we have. He just isn’t on Steve Alford’s or Brad Stevens level right now. In the future, I expect big things from him.

  39. Do you think Duke and North Carolina recruit only in their state? I personally think most fans just want to see the Hoosiers win.

  40. 4guards, Do you think that Crean is not recruiting in this state? He has started behind the 8 ball with all the kids and their coaches.The 2011-2012 class will tell us what we need to know about coach Crean.If we don’t get some of these kids,then we may need a change.
    Hopefully we will be back on the winning track by then,and it won’t be a problem.

  41. 4tards: You liked Pat Knight a lot better 3 months ago, and were questioning why we didn’t go after him. Then you just quietly swept him under the carpet, hoping noone would notice. Just shows that you “blow with the wind.”

  42. Mic,
    A big misconception is that I ONLY want Indiana kids. This is not true. We need more than 2 is what I am saying. We will always need ELITE out of state talent.
    In regards to NC and Duke, NC has 5 guys from in state (more than twice as much as us) and Duke has 4 (twice as many as us). .. but NC is not as traditionally rich in talent as Indiana. These teams fill their roster with in state and ELITE out of state talent.

  43. As my attempt at putting something other than name-calling on this board, I’ll mention that one-time IU prospect Emmanuel Negedu may be transferring from Tennessee.

    He missed this past year with a heart condition after collapsing and being defibrillated in a preseason workout. Recently, he came out and said he’d been cleared to return to playing. Bruce Pearl then said that he hadn’t been cleared and that he would not play again for UT, but would remain on scholarship if he wanted to continue to attend the university.

    Sounds like he wants to play and got one opinion, and the school doesn’t want to take the chance and got another opinion. So on the radio here in NashVegas this morning, a UT beat reporter was saying that he probably wants to play and may transfer.

    I believe it was IU, UT and G. Tech in the running for him. If he can be totally cleared by multiple docs to play, would it be worth the risk for IU to take him as a transfer? He’s 6’8″, 230,and played pretty well as a freshman in ’08-’09.Food for thought …….

  44. What we need is what Coach Crean wants. There are no mandated quotas for how many scholarships should stay in state. Sounds like a fifth grade idea.

  45. Eric- this thread really hasn’t had much name-calling other than what is related to basketball.

    I don’t know if I like the Negedu idea or not. It’s food for thought, like you say.

    What about the Fuller kid from Iowa? Or even better, Elston Turner from Washington who just announced he is transferring. The guy was lights-out off the bench all season for the Huskies, and he stuck a few nice daggers in the heart of New Mexico in the tournament (not that that is saying much).

  46. Negedu would be a huge risk for a mediocre talent. There is a reason TN is done with him.
    I feel for the kid, but I would pass.

  47. …and now an expert medical opinion from Dr. coach4disreguards. Is anyone surprised? If you want to hear another whopper tell him how big a fish you caught yesterday.

  48. CTC is in Muncie today to see J Davis during personal training and practice.
    But I am not sure how this can be true because we keep hearing he does not recruit in-state players from an expert evaluator of talent with a Ph.D.

  49. the whimpy Dr. coach4disreguards is back again without responding to questions about his logic or lack thereof in his pervious attacks on crean. his strategy against crean is clear: SPRAY AND PRAY BABY!

  50. What question did I not respond to, that wasn’t asked as a personal attack?
    I am pleased to see Crean in Muncie. Lets seal the deal. I never claimed to be a Dr. It is common knowledge that Negedu has serious health problems.

  51. Husky Tom, the comments subsequent to mine are the kind of name-calling I refer to. I don’t really like 4guards’ take much of the time, but I grow weary of the relentless assaults. The Washington kid is interesting.

    I tend to agree that TN is right not to clear Negedu, and that his saying he’s been cleared is largely wishful thinking. But, he did get a medical opinion before making that statement.I don’t think he’d be a star, but if healthy could be a solid contributor. But it’s just food for thought, as I said.

  52. I’ve never seen a coach, who took Indiana to a NCAA Championship final, spoken about so poorly.

    I will never for get beating Duke, and Jason Williams choking at the free-throw line, and how pissed people were when we beat Oklahoma.

    I bet if Mike Davis was left alone, he may have acquired some of these Indiana kids. However, the racial sentiment surrounding his employment at IU, and the constant complaining about how he got the job, I’m sure would and is still making recruits think twice about coming to Indiana. That history, coupled with Sampson’s nuking of the program make this situation Crean’s on private Waterloo.

    Having said that, I do support Crean. I think he committed to winning. He is getting the best talent he can at this point. Note, kids want instant gratification. They want to win now. They want to be a first round pick, now. They want the NBA, now. Crean understands that we’ve got to win, now, to attact talent. What we did in 87′ has gone the way of the DoDo bird.

  53. 1) Why Pat Knight has *zero* players in the Rivals top 150 in his recruiting class, after being declared an overlooked messiah by 4guards

    2) Why “it is a sad day” to be any school who doesn’t have a higher-rated recruit than #26, because that puts them behind Central Michigan

    3) Why Alford only has one recruit from the top 150 despite winning 30

    4) Why it is that only 25% of the Rivals top 150 are staying in-state, if recruiting in-state is by far the most important part of a program.

    5) Why he has conveniently swept Pat Knight under the carpet, instead of sticking with him through his troubles

    Let this list be a manifesto for all of us who despise 4guards; copy and paste it, and use it against him as you please.

  54. 1. never said he was an overlooked messiah, said I would rather have him here than Crean.
    2. never said it was a sad day to be any school who doesn’t have a higher rated recruit than #26.
    3.Alford only has one stud recruit because he is at NM. One more stud than we have coming in with all the benefits of IU.
    4. Recruiting in state is more important in Indiana than any other state. It is like the state of Texas for football. kids from IN are just better basketball players.
    5. never swept Pat under the carpet… just said he is not the coach of Alford or Stevens.

  55. 1) …still hasn’t explained why Pat Knight can’t recruit.

    2) You said it was sad that IU didn’t have a higher recruit than New Mexico. According to that logic, every school that doesn’t have a higher rated recruit than crappy Central Michigan should be devastated. Central Michigan. Central Michigan. Did I even mention Florida International? This means that recent national champs such as Maryland and Arizona (not ancient ones like IU) should declare a day of national mourning.

    3) Who cares if Alford is at New Mexico. Central Michigan nabbed the #26 recruit in the country. Central Michigan.

    4) Recruiting in state is a positive thing, but it is factually a very difficult thing to pull off, especially with scandals and sanctions in your recent past.

    5) You stopped mentioning Pat once he became inconvenient to your argument. Period. Enough said.

  56. Slam dunk, just like the VO slamming on 4guards account, which was so eloquently described a week ago.

  57. iuall88: get off the racist rant. I don’t care if Davis was green, yellow or polka-dot. He should not have been given the job. He went to the finals with Knight players and after they were gone, he couldn’t recruit. Having said that, I do think had he stayed he might have been able to improve and might have turned okay–for sure would have been better than what we went through with Sampson. I just get so offended by people yelling racism every time an African-American is fired from a coaching job. People of all colors get hired/fired/demoted/etc.etc every day.

  58. I am not bashful to say the last three years of the Davis regime I was a luke warm IU BB fan. I could not take the lack of a basketball philosophical direction resulting in a marble cake defense and an offense that could not be recognized or named. His recruiting Indiana was a mirage.

  59. iual88, I should put you in touch with my black roomate at IU who was an Ed major and was telling me that Davis could not coach a lick! I will tell you like I tell everyone…look up Whitlock or Wilbon stories on Davis! Davis leaving IU had nothing to do with race, his hiring…well that is a different story! I did support him until it was obvious he could not make adjustments, ever…
    He has been on the chop block at UAB for 3 years now, explain that?!

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