Hoosier Morning

sports_pb_basement0507

Emanon rider Alex Ray takes a spin in the basement of the Alpha Tau Omega house three days before this year’s Little 500 on April 24. The team met at the house to do a few last-second tweaks to their bicycles before turning them in for pre-race inspection the next day. James Brosher | Herald-Times

AT HOOSIERSHQ.COM

IT’S INDIANA

BIG TEN BASKETBALL

TAKE A LOOK

Jay-Z’s “Ride or Die.”

57 comments

  1. Noreen is becoming more and more important by the day. Hopefully this weekend pays big dividends.

  2. No kidding. Not only are we losing on the court, we keep losing off the court. How many more recruits are gonna pass us by? I really hope this isn’t a sign of things to come in 2011.

  3. I’m glad Negedu isn’t playing for IU. I’m sure he could provide much needed help on the court, but I would be on pins and needles for the next 3 years hoping he wouldn’t collapse at any given moment. I don’t think it would be worth the anxiety it would place on the team and team doctors to have him around. Too much distraction and worry.

  4. JB – I think this situation is a little bit different. The recruit did not say no, IU said no (it sounds liek he would have come to IU if the offer was made). I really feel for the kid, but frankly, I think IU is doing the right thing. From his perspective and well-being, why play with dynamite? Get your degree and move on. From IU’s perspective, the last thing we need now is to have this young man come to play for IU and then have some catastrophic medical problem. We need a big guy, but I just don’t think it is worth the risk for either him or IU.

  5. JB,

    Our recruiting troubles just go to show that no matter how nice our facilities are or how much tradition we have, the thing that trumps all others is winning games.

    If we get off to a good start this fall and seem to be playing well and growing as a team, I think you’ll see good things on the horizon for 2011 as far as recruiting goes.

    At this point, I’m more focused on how Crean helps our core players develop and how much they grow in the offseason than I am with who may still be added to the 2011 class. We have some good players on our team, and if they can take the next step, our recruiting troubles will quickly be alleviated.

  6. Casey, like you I have thought all along the recruiting for the next several of years will be done by the 09 Freshman. Their future performance can be recruitment enough with Coach Crean doing the evaluating and making the offers.

  7. It’s funny that we even have to make this point. It’s hard to believe there are people out there like JB and 4guards who think that recruiting is somehow separate from winning and losing, and that a good coach should be able to sell popsicles to Eskimoes.

    Crean landed a top-10 class in the midst of a 6-25 season. That was a magic act, as far as I am concerned. We shouldn’t expect this miracle to repeat itself year after year.

  8. Crean has always been a poor recruiter. According to Rivals, Buzz has already brought in more 4 and 5 stars to Marquette than Crean did his entire tenure there.

  9. Even in the event of an undefeated season we all know the two constants that will always be; there will be one poster on here with negative bias towards Coach Crean and the second constant is we will always know who that poster will be.

  10. Do you think Buzz’s ability to bring those guys in had anything to do with Crean building the program there? Just a possibility.

  11. After seeing what happened to McCloud, Buzz needed to be a good recruiter for Coach Crean.

  12. No, I don’t think Buzz’s abiity to recruit has anything to do with Crean building the program. Crean went to the final 4 in 2003 and still couldn’t bring in the top recruits after that. I am also sick of this myth that Crean built the Marquette program. You do know that McGuire led this school to a national championship right? You do know that this school is 9th in all time post season appearances. This did not start with Crean.

  13. While Noreen is an intriguing prospect, I wouldn’t get too worked up over whether he comes to IU or not. If he passes on IU and we end up with an extra scholarship for the 2011 and 2012 classes, that certainly won’t be the end of the world.

  14. 4Guards,

    It may be the wrong choice of words to say that Crean built the Marquette program. I agree AL put Marquette on the map in the 70’s. Would you be comfortable saying that Crean revived or maintained the quality of the program?

    On another note, I too think that we need Noreen to make this recruiting class take a turn in the right direction. It’s just interesting to see that we went from hitting and missing on 4 and 5 stars to not being able to get anyone. Frankly it’s embarrassing as an IU fan to see how many recruits we have swung and missed on these past few months.

    Hopefully we get some positive news here soon.

    Best,
    PB

  15. The part that bothers me is that we keep putting ourselves out there and recruits keep saying no. Why not just save the scholarship and work hard on 2011 class.

  16. Nerdvana,
    The problem is that Crean won’t bank the scholarship. He will give it to somebody else undeserving like Michel.

  17. That is very analytical thinking. Acknowledge O’Niell’s Sweet 16 but not Coach Crean’s Final Four. Such sound objective brilliance. Amazing.

    Out of his own mouth, in his own words, Tom Izzo said Coach Crean was the best recruiter he had ever been around. Based on his stellar credentials and your total lack of credibility, I am going to go out on a limb and say you are lonely again with your negative, shallow minded bias. coachreportertalentevaluatorfortunetellerlonely4disreguards HA!!

  18. I agree we have to win as well. My point is more that this spring we have “went” after a couple Bigs and while I obviously don’t know the ins and outs, these guys have chosen other schools. I’m looking forward to November but just trying to be realistic in how much better we will be. If we are .500 and go to the NIT I will consider that successful but how that will sway recruits?? Probably not so much. So if winning is the answer it may be awhile. I think if we don’t have an NCAA appearance by 2011 that there may be some more fans waking up to the fact that we are in trouble. As for the 2009 class we could promise more playing time than any other program and some kids jumped at that.

  19. I didn’t make the outlandish comment saying that O’Neill or Crean built the program.

  20. I agree with the sentiment that wins help recruiting/recruiting helps wins, and the whole chicken and egg thing we can get into.

    Here is what worries/bothers me. Crean has brought it upon himself with his comments and going after huge recruits (Selby and Irving). I would love the huge recruits, trust me, but I don’t think in hindsight either of them were ever truly considering coming here.

    It’s one of those deals where it sounds good at first and in theory but when it comes down to the nuts and bolts of the decision, its just not the right play for these top recruits. If we get one, I think it will be an Indiana kid who grew up loving IU and wants to stay close to home, not someone from MD or Jersey. It’s not out of the question, just not realistic either.

    I just hope Crean stops with comments like ‘We just don’t have proven winners and experience yet, but we are trying to get some’ (paraphrased, but hes said as much several times) and realizes that we have what we have. I sympathize with his point, and understand what Sampson did, but the truth is, No one savior is walking through that door. The 09 class has some of the parts, so make them better and find a way to coach them and win. No excuses, no Mike Davis Help is on the Way, just coach the kids we have and compete.

    I don’t think anyone would argue (actually someone will) that Duke or Butler, while having good players and lots of talent, had the 2 most talented rosters last year. It takes more than rated talent to win, and we can be at least .500 or better with what we had last year. outperform whats expected of you and that is the quickest way to rise up and get recruits, not playing at or under what people expect of you.

    I want a team that we can say, man what a win, they had more talent than us but we gutted it out and played smarter. Thats what wins championships, playing above your pure talent level, not just beating kids who you are supposed to beat. If we are waiting on that, it will be a really long time.

  21. The full playing season of a healthy Creek would of canceled the need to order crying towels. But on the positive side look at the increase in confidence gained by Bobby Capobianco through good coaching from the beginning of the season to the end. He may have traveled the learning curve farther than any of the Freshman last season.

  22. Are we talking about the Capobianco who averaged 2 pts and 2 rbs a game while shooting 45% from the free throw line and had the worst field goal percentage on the team outside of Dumes and Watford? 2 of his top 3 scoring games were before big 10 play. I am happy if he had an increase in confidence, but he sure had no reason to.

  23. You are even more blind than I originally suspected. Enjoy your loneliness too.

  24. There are just too many whiners on this Blog! You can create your own myths but not your own facts. In 2010 IU only tried to recruit 3 5-star players (according to Rivals): Selby #1, Kansas, Irving #4, Duke, and Kendrick #15, Memphis. None were expected to go to IU, but we were in the top 5 with each. In fact we did not recruit Kendrick all that much. The only other 5-star in the picture was Deshaun Thomas who had committed to OH St before we got in the fight. As to 4-star players the only one we tried to recruit was Abraham #95, Georgetown, who probably wanted to come to IU but his family and advisers prevailed and Georgetown was always the heavy favorite. We got the only 3-star players we recruited, Sheehey #141 and Olidapo #144. In each case above the player went to the school that was heavily favored to get his commitment. There were no surprises, no “how did we blow this” situations! The only Indiana kids in the top 150 besides Thomas were Johnson #51, an early Purdue commitment, and Ferguson #46, FL International, and Martin #86, Xavier, whom we did not recruit, and I did not want at IU. Negedu we turned down for identical reasons that led TN to turn him down as a player. No surprise there. There were only 27 5-star players this year and we were seriously considered by 3 coming off a 6-25 season! That’s pretty good for Coach Crean and staff. For 2011 things are even better. We have the commitment of 4-star Etherington #86, form IN and we are strong with 4-star Zeller #35 and J Davis #40, also both from IN. In fact we are sort of strong with 5-star Cook #20 MD, and Chandler #10 form IN. Since we can only offer 2-3 scholarships right now for 2011, that is very strong. Hold the tears!

  25. 4guards stated: “Crean has always been a poor recruiter. According to Rivals, Buzz has already brought in more 4 and 5 stars to Marquette than Crean did his entire tenure there.”

    Well, let’s see if that is accurate:

    Buzz’s 4 and 5 star recruits (per Rivals) to date:
    2011: 0
    2010: 2 (Blue, Jones)
    2009: 3 (Cadougan, Maymon, Williams*)
    2008: 0

    Crean’s 4 and 5 star recruits (per Rivals) while at Marquette
    2007: 0
    2006: 1 (Hayward)
    2005: 3 (James, Matthews, McNeal)
    2004: 0
    2003: 1 (Mason)
    2002: 0

    Nope, not accurate. Imagine that.

    Beside being inaccurate, it is also just a silly statement to make as an evaluation of someone’s recruiting ability. You can do better, 4guards, just try a little bit.

    Now, we won’t mention that Novak who was a 2002 3-star at Rivals was a 4-star at Scout, as were two other 2002 Marquette recruits, Grimm and Chapman. Oops. O.K. you said Rivals, I know. I’m sure your using Rivals and not Scout didn’t have anything with your interest in choosing data that only supports your post.

    Of course, these lists don’t include Diener and Wade. But, again, you said according to Rivals.

    *E Williams signed is LOI when Crean was still coaching Marquette. Does this indicate who was more responsible for his recruitment? No. Perhaps EW liked Buzz better, perhaps Crean told EW to stay. I don’t know and you don’t either.

    Buzz may be a good coach and a good recruiter and I am not sold on Crean but if you are going to be so relentlessly critical, 4guards, get your facts straight. Don’t continue with your weak cherry picking of data that seemingly, but doesn’t in reality, support your point of view.

  26. I hate to mimic 4guards, but the “winning” excuse sounds like putting lipstick on a pig. Can any of us say with honesty it’s not a bit disheartening to witness so many of these recruits falling through the cracks? What does it do to the psyche of the team to see homegrown Indiana kids looking at Butler and Ohio over the cream and crimson? Has our hoops grown so homely? Does winning trump all? I thought we had a few cards in our hand… a smart and inspirational coach, a beautiful campus, a diverse population of students with multitude of educational opportunities, the best elderly population of fans that hoard all the good court-level seats and steal the hysterical college atmosphere that should take place during every Hoosier game, a stable beer economy, and a new assistant coach that has a famous wife way hotter than anything Rick Patino had a plate of ziti with.

    Disappointment is creeping into embarrassment. There seems to be an Indiana avoidance.

  27. There is no question we’ve struck out so far this spring.

    On the other hand, we’ve got two solid kids coming in and if we were to land Noreen (Michel scares me) the class, I think, would be considered decent. There is still some time left to sign someone (did I mention that Michel scares me?)

    Also, a lot of people out there have been calling for Crean to bank the scholly that’s left and save it for 2011 and 2012 and get some class balance. It certainly appears that that was not Crean’s plan, but if it turns out that way, all is not lost.

  28. Mike K,
    Buzz has a 5 star and Crean has none, which is the tie breaker. Buzz’s 3 classes are better than Crean’s 6.

  29. No support what so ever for coachreportertalentevluatorfortuntellerlonely4disreguards. He just keeps happening and repeating over and over again. Where is ole Lonely at.

  30. Yes, but Coach Crean coached DW to the top of the NBA and that is a double trump tiebreaker. Set, game and match to Coach Crean. All it takes is facts, true ones that is. Where is ole Lonely?

  31. 4guards,

    What do Buzz and his recruiting classes have to do with Tom Crean and IU basketball?

    At this point, it’s comical that you can’t acknowledge that Crean’s ability to build 20-win teams at Marquette for almost a decade paved the way for someone like Buzz (who coached under and learned from Crean, mind you) to step in and keep the program moving forward.

    At this point, do you get any enjoyment out of following and discussing IU athletics whatsoever? If not, spare us – and yourself – the trouble and go on hiatus until the program is strong again. Then you can jump back on the bandwagon.

  32. I think a team of the people Crean recruited would beat a team of people that Buzz recruited.

    Wade, Diener, Novak, McNeal, Matthews, Haywood.

  33. Hey Guys, ole Lonely is busy creating statistics and facts to use in a post that will numb us all with his brilliance. Get ready. Whether he is a fan or not he is truly a lonely troll.

  34. Casey,
    No, I am not getting any enjoyment at all watching Crean burn this program to the ground. Especially knowing Coach Alford actually has what it takes to do this job. I am just holding out hope he can stumble onto Noreen, Davis, and Zeller. At this point , it is essential to land all 3.

  35. 4guards stated: “Mike K,
    Buzz has a 5 star and Crean has none, which is the tie breaker. Buzz’s 3 classes are better than Crean’s 6.”

    That statement confirms my suspicions. LOL. Fan, troll, whatever. Last time I ever read or respond to a 4guards’ post.

    Another board I frequent has this wonderful “ignore” feature. You can select individuals and their posts won’t even appear. One of the greatest inventions. Ever.

  36. Then my question to you, 4guards, is: why are you still paying attention?

    If the situation at IU is making your life so much worse, to the point that you can’t possibly see any ounce of positivity in what’s happening, what is the payoff for your relentless and annoying investment?

    All you ever do is get on this site and spew negative, factually incorrect nonsense. I, like everyone else on this site, understand your disdain and disappointment. We’re all disappointed. But some of us actually make attempts to dissect the situation, gain insight and look to the future.

    You, instead, return to the same handful of stale points (Crean is a fraud, Alford is IU’s savior-in-waiting, anything bad is Crean’s fault, anything good is luck). It’d be one thing if you had an actual dialogue with someone for once, but you don’t. You simply blanket us with your unsubstantiated bashing of everything related to Crean and the team, without ever thinking “maybe I’m wrong about something.” How is that fun or productive for you? It sure isn’t for any of us.

    I know I’ve conceded points and admitted being incorrect before on this blog. I think most people have at least once or twice. You’ve never even considered that someone elses perspective may be just as valid as yours.

    It’s why you get imitated. It’s why people make fun of your name. It’s why people say you’re a basement-dwelling 13-year-old on his parents’ computer. It’s why people call you names. It’s part of the reason this blog continues to be a circus.

    Now, I try to refrain from all of the above, but if you want those things to stop, why not try being a reasonable conversationalist for once? Otherwise, please put us all out of our misery and go on hiatus.

    Rant: over.

  37. Why am I still paying attention? Because I have been an IU fan my entire life. I love IU. Do you expect me to pack it in and go home because we made the wrong coaching hire? I am going to see it through and hopefully we get it right next time. It is fans like myself who need to speak out and be heard so we can help get rid of Crean and get IU back where it belongs on the national scene.
    I really don’t care about the name calling and personal attacks. It really reflects bad on the person saying it.

  38. Fine then, 4guards. Why don’t you switch it up, then? Try rolling with the punches.

    Fred Glass is not sitting in his office, reading the Scoop, and thinking “Wow, 4guards is upset. Maybe I should can Crean.”

    Crean, like it or not, is our coach for the forseeable future. I can’t claim to know how his tenure will end up here — whether he’ll be successful eventually or continue to struggle, but I’m moving forward under the notion that he’ll be here for a while.

    You need to accept that, and try to enjoy IU basketball somehow. If you can’t anymore, then yes, I would expect you to “pack it in and go home.” It’s pretty foolish to continue a behavior that makes you a less happy person.

    And maybe consider that your opinion is just that — an opinion. A subjective point of view. You think Crean was the wrong hire. Others disagree with you. MOST others disagree with you. It doesn’t make them Crean apologists. It makes them believers. You hating the hire doesn’t make you a Crean hater. It makes you a skeptic.

    Both points of view are fine, but you need to stop acting like yours is the only view with any sort of validity.

    You say it’s “fans like yourself” who need to speak out. I’d argue it’s fans like you who have been perpetuating the divide in the IU fan base — fans so entrenched in our past successes that they can’t fathom having anyone at the helm other than Knight or one of his former players.

    I’d say “fans like yourself” need to stop perpetuating a culture of friction. The environment surrounding our program for the last decade has been absolutely toxic. The coaching position at IU has become comparable to being the manager of the Cubs or the head coach of the Knicks. There’s so much pressure to succeed and do everything a certain way that it’s almost crippling.

    I, for one, admire Crean’s ability to remain as upbeat and optimistic as he has in the midst of all of this. Most coaches wouldn’t be able to do so.

    I find it ridiculous that you seem to think 100 percent of what Crean does is wrong. It’s just not rational.

  39. “I am going to see it through and hopefully we get it right next time”.

    That’s what your mom likely told your dad.

  40. I don’t think Crean is wrong 100 percent of the time. I have no problem stating when I agree with him and I do just that.
    It is the Crean Apologists like Hoosier Clarion who think Crean is right 100 percent of the time.

  41. Ha, good one. The fact is, it didn’t matter who IU hired, you wanted Alford. Anyone else would have faced the same crap from you. Could have been Mark Few, Jamie Dixon, Jay Wright, Bruce Pearl or anyone else whose name came up last time. FACT, IU hired Crean. Most fans took it and moved forward with it.

    Do I think Crean is a good X and O coach…not really. Am I concerned with the state of the program…you bet. The difference between what you do and what I do are night and day. You post negative stuff all day every day for all the world to see (INCLUDING RECRUITS), while I discuss concerns OFFLINE with friends and family.

    Posting anonymously on message boards doesn’t hold weight with the AD, so it certainly isn’t going to have the impact you want…it’s just wasted effort. I suspect there are more people on boards like this calling for Lynch’s head than Crean’s and you can see where that’s getting those people? If you want to affect change there are much better ways to do it, but your opinion has to respected first.

  42. fwa,
    I also have many offline discussions and more people agree with me than disagree in the real world.
    Believe it or not, I have also had discussions with a major donor who is from the same town I am, and lets just say he wants Crean out of there as bad as I do.
    I do want Alford in here, but also would be happy with Brad stevens.

  43. I’m sure there are “major donors” who strongly support Crean.

    …some guy named Cook, or something?

  44. Yea, and everyone believes that… You do realize that that is meaningless jabber, don’t you?

    I have a friend that know’s Steve Alford and as much he wanted the IU job, he’s over it and says he has no intention of ever taking the job. Really, I know this for a fact.

  45. 4guards I have to call you out on that bit of boastful fantasy, as to both the “more people” and the “major donor” nonsense! Give me the names or admit you just made it up. You see all donors are listed as part of the public record, so we can compare your name to the list of donors and then call the guy to see if he “agrees with you”. As to your own “private survey” of vast numbers of people in agreement with your position-no one believes you!

  46. The major donor 4guards discussed IU basketball with was actually the bronze statue of Herman Wells on campus. His other friends that agree with him on all things IU basketball are actually a chipmunk, a parking meter, and a half-eaten Snickers bar.

  47. fwa,
    I don’t really expect or care if you believe that. I understand what you are saying.

  48. It must be hell being a lonely troll only capable of spewing negative bias with absolutely no credibility.

  49. vibram fivefingers can be the best choose for you , you will enjoy your all the summer if you have a pair of vibram fivefingers . On the the side , it will leave a regret in your exciting summer. You will be very popular and special if you wear the vibram fivefingers . vibram fivefingers are not only have the unique design , but also have many functions that other shoes do not have .

Comments are closed.