Hoosier Morning


Christian Watford is among the IU players that first appeared in Bloomington during the adidas May Classic. David Snodgress | Herald-Times






The Expendables singing “Wells.”


  1. If Jones starts at PG, it is going to be another long season. The guy is a turnover waiting to happen. We really need to start Hulls at the point.

  2. 4guards, Seems strange but I totally agree with you about Jones. He is a better player when he can catch and shoot or catch and drive. His turnover to assist ratio is way to high for a point guard and he is a poor 3 point shooter. IMO putting him at the point hurts him. He is a good mid-range shooter,he can rebound, and hit foul shots. He should be in a small forward spot where he can better use his skill package. When he has the ball in his hands too much he tries to force up bad shots, he makes lazy passes, he shoots to much and his turnovers go up. I believe with Creek back, new recruits and improved team mates he won’t feel like he has to carry the team on his back all the time. He will be free to do what he can do best and have a great year.

  3. FYI…Hulls TO% was actually higher than Jones’ last year…21.4% vs. 18.7%. But, since past results are not indicative of future returns, it’s hard to know where their numbers might go next year. What we do know–as far as TO’s are concerned–Hulls has farther to go than Jones.

  4. Jones and Rivers led the team with 2.8
    Hulls had 1.2

    Hulls was a freshman PG, Jones was Soph wing.

  5. fwa,

    Hulls also played point the whole year and was a Freshman. He will only get better.

    Out of curiousity, do you know Jones’ TO% his freshman year, even though he wasn’t really a full time point? I have no idea, but it would be interesting to see…

  6. Is Hutch suggesting that Rivers is almost the last guy off the bench? I wasn’t that impressed with Rivers but he’s gonna play.

  7. Jones – 105 assists/87 to’s – ratio 1.21
    Hulls – 45 assists/37 to’s – ratio 1.21
    Rivers – 106 assists/86 to’s – ratio 1.23

  8. Jones should not be the point. He is turnover prone and I don’t think he sees a few steps ahead as does Hulls. Jones is a scorer, able to create a shot for himself, but he has to be able to create shots and opportunities for teammates and get them into position. Hulls is the natural there.

  9. I think Terry’s lineup was based on Watford and Elston playing the the 3/5….which needs to happen……therefore jones and creek are the guards. I actually like this lineup.

  10. JB,
    I don’t think he was suggesting that Rivers isn’t going to play. I’m guessing he is saying that Rivers won’t be running the point if either Hulls or VJ is in the game.

  11. I think all 3 of those guys need to vastly improve (jones, hulls, and rivers). I think Rivers needs to work really hard in the off-season and develop a game. This tends to happen to guys going in to their sr. season, but some just get po’d and quit. I hope he works hard this year. Jones and Hulls both have a long way to go to be considered “good” big ten point guards. I hope all of this is realized in the program, and I’m sure it is. I believe River’s improvement would help the most for the upcoming season, because I don’t see Hulls as a full time pg.

  12. I kind of agree with Hutch with the fact TP is now going to be on the floor as a PF more than a center. That clearly is why Guy was recruited.

  13. Once Crean realizes Guy is not any good and cannot hack it in the Big10, TP will be right back in the middle because we have nobody better.
    I still can’t understand how people expect Guy to be a good rebounder when he could only average 7 a game in JUCO out in Idaho.

  14. As a freshman, Jones had 100 assists and 99 turnovers, so he made some progress last year.

  15. The thing is we really don’t have the point guard we need, so we have to make do.

    I think Rivers won’t be it and will be coming off the bench.

    Hulls is the future, we’ll have to see how much improvement he shows.

    Jones is the guy, almost by default. We did play better later in the season last year when he picked up more ball handling duties.

  16. I just have a hunch Guy will surprise..A lot of times teams key on keeping the giant off the boards..Because they command more attention, the forwards clean more glass and scrappy guards can corral more long stuff. Guy will make Elston and Watford far more efficient rebounders and brutal scoring forces around the rim. Things will open up for Rivers driving the lane. If Guy has any offensive moves/skills(a short hook or a turnaround bunny), then I think our inside play will be much tougher to contend than last season.

  17. Just like ole 4tongues to not want any IU player to succeed. As has been stated before he is no IU fan.

  18. 4guards: you made poor use of the TO stats above, going per game instead of ratio, when Jones played many more minutes than Hulls. I’m not saying Jones should be the PG, but that’s a clear misrepresentation of statistics (“stats don’t lie, people do”).

    And while I’ve said before that 7 rpg at JUCO doesn’t inspire me with any great confidence, but at ~20 minutes per game, that’s not terrible. If he can simply port those numbers, he’d be our highest rebounder–accumulative as well as based on min/gm averages: Watford averaged 6 @ 28.5 mins/gm, Rivers averaged 4 @ 28.5 mins/gm, and Elstin had 4 @ 15 minutes per game.)

  19. I don’t want any IU player to succeed? Wasn’t I just talking about how Hulls should be the starting PG and he would thrive in that role?
    Just more mud slinging by hotel boy.
    IUfan , You make poor use of the TO stats by comparing a PG to a wing. When Jones actually played some point his freshman year, look at what he did.
    How would guy simply port his number from a JUCO out in Idaho to the Big 10?

  20. Let’s be honest….nobody really knows what Guy is going to do….he could be another Pritchard, Bawa, or a starting center….either way…if he adds a defensive pressence in the paint, he will be well worth it.

    We gave up to many layups last year.

  21. Hell everybody knows 4tickturds cherry picks stats for facts. Then spews his negative, unsupported bias.

  22. If the entire INDIANA ELITE AAU team played together in college,do you think that they could play for a NCAA championship?

  23. Okay, now that the conversation is going…

    Hoagland, Jones TO% (TO/possession) his freshman year was 28.3%. So, yea, he improved markedly as I expect Hulls to do so as well. But, Jones Ast.% (ast/FG made) last year was 31.4. Hulls’ this year was 12.0, which was even lower than Dumes despite considerably more minutes. These numbers come from Ken Pomeroy’s site.

    I agree that Hulls should play the point over Jones…just wanted to point out, once again, that 4guards uses stats in a misleading way. Using a pure TO per game number when Hulls played considerably fewer minutes is not a clear picture. And to go down the PG vs. wing arguement tries to discount the fact that Jones handled the ball a LOT.

  24. Allot of experts above, most have no idea whats going on. IU will be ok, lets give them and the coach a chance. They will win more next year than this year, i know that. They have to grow and listen to the coaches.

  25. steve,
    yes, if we filled our roster with the best from the Indiana Elite teams, we would be competing for National Titles.
    Laffy, Guy will never average 10 boards a game, but I would be pleased if he did. He couldn’t do in JUCO out in Idaho. How would he do it in the Big 10?

  26. Just like ole 4tongues to not want any IU player to succeed. As has been stated before he is no IU fan.

    Just like ole Hoosier T;rombonista who keeps an old Crean-during-game-cutout just outside his basement to say that SA has already succumbed to the pressure cooker that is coaching in B10. If Guy can improve SA can improve but the envious ole trumpet doesn’t want to admit it.

    SA was a winner all his life. Tom Crean a wiener and a madly clapping one at that.

  27. I am cracking up at that Tom Crean picture. Only if he were clapping.
    Clarion doesn’t like any former IU player to succeed.

  28. Look, you need your players in position to play their best game.
    Jones, plays and scores better when he has the freedom to get open and shoot his mid range shot or drive to the basket and score. Hopefully he will be better at finishing strong. He is not a good 3 point shooter at .273 last year while Hulls was .402. I just think he is out of his element at the point and takes to many forced shots. I want Jones and every IU player doing what they do best because it helps us be a better team and we will win more games.
    I think our workout Coach will get GMM in better shape and his number will go up. I looked at many games last year for him and his playing time was not high and he still got rebounds and blocked shoot in less than 20 minutes.

  29. I hate to say it, but some of you are like the Kentucky fans who think Calipari can do no wrong. Michel’s numbers are not going to go up now that he is playing in the Big10 instead of a JUCO in Idaho. That is absurd.

  30. 4guards: Let’s say Guy averages 20 minutes per game; what is the lowest number of rebounds from Guy with which you would be satisfied?

  31. FWA,

    I honestly just didn’t know the stats, thanks for posting them. There are always what ifs yada yada, but Hulls thinks like a point and his whole career says he will only learn and get better. Verdell can ‘play’ point but I don’t really think he is one, serves us better as a wing.

    I like them both, and in reality, our ‘system’ doesn’t even need a point. *Any* (capable) guard could dribble up and either pass to the wing or go off the high ball screen. Thats all we have shown so far besides the break, and again, any of our wings can bring it up off an outlet or long rebound.

    Mold the two together to be 6’3″ slash like jones with long arms and hops, but shoot and think/pass like Jordy, and that would be an 1st team B10 point guard. I think we can all agree on that ha

  32. Didn’t someone project his JUCO stats out based on 28 minutes per game? Thought I saw that somewhere.


  33. Alford’s performance coaching…

    North Manchester—very good

    SW Missouri St.—-good

    Iowa—disappointing(generously speaking)

    New Mexico—good

    He has a firm grasp on where his
    coaching success can be attained,
    in second tier conferences.

  34. Taking SW Missouri State to the Sweet 16 and New Mexico to a top 10 team in the country, I would consider better than just good.
    What do you consider Crean’s coaching performance then in the Big 10 and Big East?

  35. Alford is a second tier performing coach, not even mediocre level as he demonstrated by his surrender in the B10. Coach Crean led his team to the Final 4 while rebuilding Marquette. Alford will never rise above MW, he knows where he belongs that is why he moved down in competition. Coach Crean moved up to the B10 and took on the biggest rebuild project in basketball. He rose up in competition to take on a challenge. SA simply surrenders, resigns and moves to easier competition. He must have a low level of confidence in himself.

  36. TC coaching record at Marquette: uninspired (riding the coattails of Dwayne Wade to the Final Four does not count). Bob Knight used to say: “You guys take me to the Final Four and I’ll win it.” It’s impossible for you Clarion to not remember this quote, I am sure you do. When it counted more Tom Crean’s coaching let everybody down including Dwyane Wade and they lost by 30+. Memorable.

    TC came here for money. He is an appointed Hoosier. So far in TC’s case we can’t talk about winning, only whining. SA came here for Indiana and only Indiana. He never took any money from IU and won big for us. SA has many more years of coaching in front of him and he will continue to grow as a coach. He has not surrendered. The only one who has already surrendered is you, Sausage Clarion.

  37. You know, Clarion, people like you make me wish that TC moved to Iowa while SA came back home to coach the Hoosiers. We’d probably be back on top where we belong in no time, whereas TC would never take Iowa out of the bottom of the B10. Never. What an absolutely unfair person you can be, Bratwurst Clarion!

  38. As a coach Alford is mediocre at best. At Iowa he hollers Uncle, retreats and surrenders. He simply is not coaching material for the B10.

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