Hoosier Morning


Aaron Thomas looks to drive on an opponent during the adidas May Classic. Jeremy Hogan | Herald-Times


  • Everyone trails Indiana for Aaron Thomas’ services, Dustin Dopirak writes.
  • In the last recruiting notebook of the adidas May Classic, Dustin and I write about D’Vauntes Smith-Rivera’s prep school situation, Yogi Ferrell’s recent IU visit, Marshall Plumlee’s chat with Tom Crean, the Scott twins separating, Mitch McGary’s grades, and new suitors for Cody Zeller and Jeremiah Davis.





Wakey!Wakey!’s “Light Outside”


  1. I think we are losing DSR now as well. First the McLeod information and now Demliing has a video up where he was asked his leaders. He says Kentucky and Xavier… then he pauses and says IU also.

  2. DSR will be heavily recruited no matter what. IU is in good shape in 2012, so there is no need to panic.

  3. ^^^ More doom and gloom from the tarded one. I swear, the minute this guy tries to say anything good about the coach, let alone get back on the bandwagon next year, I will be waiting with a billy club to push him back out onto the pavement.

  4. Jubilee,
    There are so many good players we are in on for 2012, but everyday it seems like we are losing ground. This state is so loaded for 2011 and 2012 I am not sure how either class could end up bad, but I am beginning to think Crean may have a way to do it. The mismanaged scholarships have not helped either.

  5. First off, in the video the lag between when he said Xavier and when he said IU was negligible. Only somebody with your agenda would twist it into something.

    Second, on a vid from this weekend posted on ITH he was asked who he was taking visits with and the first thing he said was “I’m coming back down here of course”, meaning Btown. Then he went on with his list, but IU was first.

    Also, preceding that he said one of the most important factors in his decision was the business school as he is going to major in business. Ummm, I wonder who has the best b-school in that list.

    4guards swings and misses…again.

  6. If DSR was not being recruited by any other top flight programs, 4tickturds would he would be screaming like a Comanche indian Coach Crean was bottom fishing and wasting a scholarship. He is the quintessential “fluid negative”.

  7. We chatted last night about the 2011 schollies. According to Dustin the parents of the players aren’t concerned and neither were Zeller or Davis when they were asked. You can see for yourself in their vids at ITH.

    The only person concerned is you. You throw the issue into your posts whether it has relevance or not. I wonder why. Wait! That’s right. You have an agenda.

    Who said we are losing ground? You did. I wonder why. Wait! That’s right. You have an agenda.

  8. According to Chronic, he heard the parents discussing the scholarship situaion , so it is obviously an issue off the camera. I mean how couldn’t it be, there are none available for the fall signing period except for an oversign.
    Also, how great is it that Aaron Thomas is lying about having a scholarship from IU? He should hang out with Mobley.

  9. 4tards thinks he is an agenda-neutral impartial observer who just “calls what he sees.”

    Hell, the other day he even accused me of having an agenda. It was like Charles Barkley accusing Michael Jordan of excessive gambling.

  10. Fluffy Tom,
    Never heard anything from you after mentioning Zellers dominance in the state title game where he racked up 20 points and 26 rebounds over Brandon Dawson’s team.

  11. Aaron Thomas thing was a little weird….

    I don’t think IU is losing ground in 2012….Patterson seemed to like IU a whole lot this weekend, we are in good with Perea….

    They are only 2 players but are both probably 4 star players that we are sitting very good with.

    Also Peter Jurkin seems to like us, and ESPN has him ranked in their top 20 for that class. Not bad.

  12. 4guards: remember when you said this:
    “Is Negedu going to eat up a scholarship if given the ok or is he going to be a walk on?
    Outside of the heart condition (PR nightmare waiting to happen), he only averaged less than 2 points and less thean 2 rebounds a game.”

    … and now he’s been recruited by your beloved Steve Alford and will play for UNM next season. I’m assuming that you’ll become his biggest fan and when he averages a double-double next year, you’ll be whining about Crean screwing up the situation. I’m 95% convinced that if Crean won a national championship you’d chalk it up to his players (a la Dwyane Wade situation) and give him none of the credit.

  13. Yes I remember saying that. You shouldn’t assume anything, I am not a fan of anybody who plays at NM. How could I cry about Crean screwing up that? Crean wanted him, it was the IU administration that said no. Like I said, I am glad that he is getting a chance to play somewhere and also glad it is not here, no thanks to Crean.
    Obviously I would be thrilled with a National Championship, even though most around here are happy with mediocrity.

  14. CZ played well in the state playoffs and championship game, but where was he this past weekend, maybe tougher competition is telling us the truth.

  15. Isn’t Brandon Dawson tough competition? Maybe it was the fact that the state title game was more important than some AAU event.

  16. 4centers, I agree. I’m tired of the negative rants from the same person on every topic. What’s the point? Freakin’ attention mongers.

  17. Holy of holies, parents discussing scholarship situations at an institution their child might attend?!? There’s no way that can be construed as anything but bad. I would have expected parents to be completely ignorant of the situation and leave important conversation such as that to us genuinely involved, caring and supportive bloggers wasting space on the web.

  18. Sounds like Aaron Thomas is backpeddling now as well after he found out about our scholarship problem over the weekend. Not really worried about him though.

  19. It is a bit of slap in the face of our coach to suggest to go and play for the guy that didn’t see with our leader eye-to-eye. I don’t want the “hesitant one” to be a Hoosier. I’m not worried about losing this kid..I want us to return to prominence with young men that see wearing the cream and crimson as first on their list. Let him go where Roshown will guide him to a higher “spritual calling”…to the home of Kyrie, the Christian Crusaders of Better Laettner’s than Never’s, where strippers perform thy Lord’s off-campus duty for entitled offspring that play a game catching a ball with stick and net-sack and also enjoy a game of Lacrosse…Go to prepare yourself a diviner day with the rest of the deceived devil’s children, dreaming of wearing Satan’s blue for a coach forever dumb if not the theft of knowledge everything Bobby knew..and become a Dukie bighead through and through.

    “The fact that St. Benedict’s wasn’t just looking for a coach is what really impressed me. They were looking for someone to teach children to become young men. I want to be able to share my experiences with them and be able to show them what their options are and guide them into the future. It was a spiritual calling.” Roshown McLeod


    If Tom attempts to claim I have an agenda, it will be like Tiger Woods accusing Kobe Bryant of ordering up room service too often.

  20. Sam – I can be an attention monger at times, so I know one when I see one. Let me tell you this: 4guards defines the term. He runs through all the different sports blogs like a cat in a henhouse with he same rant… or even better, like a 55-year old hooker at an army base, hoping to convince a few wary and desperate soldiers that her junk is worth a few bucks…

    You really, honestly, have to have a screw loose to be so obsessed and consumed as 4guards.

  21. 4centers-

    “…55-year old hooker at an army base”.

    That was a marvelous analogy….very funny.

  22. There’s no question that this McLeod business is bad news. Its interesting that the Scoopers said they saw him talking (selling) to DSR a little bit ago. If DSR were to go with St. Benedict Arnold, our chances of landing him would be severely damaged. If he goes to Oak Hill, then we can conclude that the McLeod gambit failed and that we’re still in the game. I think that’s an objective view point.

    But until, and if, one of those things happens we can look at the tea leaves and conclude that our chances with him are good.

  23. It is very telling CZ did not come to play his heart out in his backyard of his home state, whether it is a AAU or not. With all the hype, talk , expectations, publicity, media, reporting, evaluations and opinions being formed, he should have excelled in at least hustle. Maybe his size is no longer the big advantage it was when he was younger and teams of tougher competition he now plays are neutralizing that size and supposed skills. I know that if he plays to zero performance at the next two AAU events, right behind his name will be ???????????. Maybe he is in the mold of past over hyped stud Van Treese. Sure not looking good.

  24. Cozy Feller vs. Brandon Dawson:

    CZ scored zero points in the OT against Wallace..The guard on Washington stepped up and sealed the victory. Much of his Cody’s points come from the charity stripe…standing flatfooted…grabbing boards and subsequently getting hacked. I will admit he has a nice shooting touch for beanpole. That being said, he will never possess the athleticism and multiplicity of talents found in Brandon Dawson. I don’t understand 4guards’ ridiculous claims that Zeller is even in the same league with the kid from Gary Wallace. We likely have no shot at Dawson, but he is the closet thing that I’ve seen to a Dwyane Wade from Indiana. The kid could play any position on the court.

    He is a traitor for spitting out such thoughts of manipulative intentions against our Hoosier Nation. He drinks from tea leaves a Benedict Arnold 4guards’ cup. I don’t want him either way.

  25. If I remember correctly DSR has an age issue in regards to his grade year that is going to cause him to adjust future schooling if he wants to continue playing HS ball. In Indiana you cannot play when you are 20 and over. I believe during his Senior year he turns 20. A fact McCloud would have been privy to while at Bloomington. Hence the private school route.

  26. How did he get so old for his grade? Held back due to bad grades or immaturity? Prolonged illness as a child?

  27. GFDave, I am only about 80% right I have the right kid, as I read it some time ago and there were no other details I read to explain it. If it is correct McCloud’s presence is easy to understand. Maybe someone else can add more facts about DSR.


  28. Wasn’t aware of the age thing…Doesn’t change my view..If he follows McLeod, it’s all a moot point..The warring of egos won’t find him in a Hoosier uniform. Wish him the best at St. Benedict’s and in his one year of college{Duke}.

  29. So what excuse do you have for his 26 rebounds?
    Dawson is not even close to the same type of player as Wade.

  30. D- Thanks, old pal. And thanks for the apology way back, even though I may not have deserved it.

    Kobe keeps on marching, by the way. Can’t wait for him to tie MJ for most titles…

  31. long arms. How did Wade look at 16 years of age? I said “closest thing” in Indiana. He can play any position on the floor. He’s a humble kid that wants to improve. I hate to see him leave our state for the Pac 10. I watched the finals game, 4guards. There is no comparison. I like Cody’s game..He probably is the best of the Zeller’s. I just like Branden’s game a hell of a lot more.

  32. Something good should happen to you when you are 6’10” and playing against smaller opponents. I suppose 26 rebounds is one of those good things to happen even standing flat-footed in one spot and it also did not hurt being an overtime game. He might as well have been 6’2″ this past week-end, because everyone that size and bigger out played him. Very disappointing to say the least, looked like a project.

  33. To compare Zeller and Dawson is goofy given they play different positions….Dawson is the more ready player for the big ten given his size and athletic ability. Zeller still needs to get stronger…..

    DSR will probaly still go to IU even if he goes to prep school. He has built solid relationships with the staff, IElite kids, and locally….I don’t think he would just throw that away because of some coach. He will have to go elsewhere given his age, he won’t be able to play his senior year……

    If McLeod ever wants to coach at the next level again, you don’t burn a bridge with your first collegiate job, which I don’t think he would do that.

    I won’t accuse a kid of lying that is going through the process, kids hear things, and sometimes they hear what they want to hear….doesn’t make them a bad person.

    Parents discussing scholly situations is not a big deal because the parents are not making the decision. If Zeller or Davis wants to come to IU their will be scholarships for them…..

  34. Small point on the scholly situation. I’m not reassured by parents or recruits saying its not a big deal to them, because its not the offering a scholly to a recruit I’m worried about.

    I just feel like its not the right image to project to anyone, especially not future future recruits, that we push people out the door. I know the standard line is ‘it happens, its part of it, everywhere’ but I feel like that is false. We are not in a similar situation to other places.

    Most people who get pushed out are those who backdoored into a scholly or reach well above themselves to obtain it. Most of our guys who would be pushed out, came here when they didn’t have to, even if they havent become all-stars, they have all dealt with more than your average recruit and have busted their butts for the cream and crimson. To push someone out after this type of commitment is just something that doesn’t sit right with me. I want to get better, but not at any cost.

    Strange Note: With as much as hes already hated on the blogs, but seems to like going here, could you imagine if we tried to push out a Tom Pritchard, but he just said, nope I’m staying. A move like that could screw us with a recruit even if we landed him. Just a ridiculous what-if that will not happen, but interesting to think about non the less.

  35. Hoag,

    I believe it is a bad thing to not renew a scholarship, but it is a good thing to tell them they won’t get any playing times. Benefits both the player and the school.

  36. I don’t like the idea of pushing kids out the door either. It sucks. But I do think IU had a unique situation where we had to field a team regardless. Because of that I think we have to act accordingly … if that means releasing a guy for better talent then I think we have to do that for now. Once IU is on track we can get back to honoring our scholarships appropriately. But all bets are off untill we can get back to the tournament consistently.

  37. To compare Zeller and Dawson is goofy given they play different positions

    And let’s not forget where the comparison began. And it is a bit “goofy” because Dawson could play all five positions and Cody plays one with the benefit of giant size covering up mediocre skills.

    And I retract a little from what I said earlier. Dawson may very well be skilled as Wade at 16 years of age…Does anyone have video of Wade as a junior in high school? I took a few minutes to watch highlight footage from the Lafayette Jeff semi-state. Wow…It’s a nice synopsis of the multitude of Dawson’s basketball skills…He initiates fast breaks by stealing the ball… he posts up and demonstrates a nice turnaround jumper….he converts on alley-oops…he handles the ball great for a guy 6′-6″/200lbs…and covers a ton of court quickly while blowing by guys in the open court…he demonstrates great timing on shot rejections…floats through the air for a one-handed put-back…he drives and
    He is an offensive machine with a hunger to score..He is an angry bull charging a cylindrical matador!

    If his outside shooting touch comes around(I think it will because he has great form and strong desire to get better), he’ll be a top-10 prospect.

    I like Tom Pritchard. I would also feel bad if we give him his walking papers..His craftiness around the rim may be beneficial in teaming with a guy(pun intended) that has the coordination to apply similar moves.

  38. Dawson can’t shoot the ball and he is being compared to D Wade. I think the kid is going to be really good, but don’t see the similarities to Wade. I forgot that Crean told him he could be like Wade, now I see why you apologists are saying that.

  39. 4guards-

    You need to quit snortin’ the Alford hairspray..

    Basketball is not a two-dimensional sport. They don’t put snow on the maple hardwood so dorks can take off their converse cross-country skis to shine at the “I’m not tripping on my shoelaces” target portion of an Olympic Biathlon.

    I admire your persistency and present diversionary tactic moving away from the concession that Cody has nowhere near the basketball skills a Branden Dawson. Dawson had a couple 3-point shots come off the back the iron that would have delivered a different fate in the state championship game..The shots looked on target and the smallest of fraction long..a fraction that would have prevented the convenience a 3A title game to hang the hat your entire pathetic argument. Zeller is a positional player that may add minuscule benefit for a team in dire need of more size. We don’t need it anymore. Satisfied? Oh, and he’s from your preferred part of Indiana that encroaches on your favored “My Old Kentucky Home” part of the state? Yippee. I will say one thing..I’ve never seen a Zeller that doesn’t fall gracefully…..They go down kind of like a….?

    Random Entertainment: The Building of a 4guards’ Argument

  40. I’m fine with helping kids transfer to more suitable situations as long as they understand from the very beginning that scholarships are year-to-year and that they need to perform to earn their position.

  41. Here comes 4gorts and Zeller…And the same be said for coaching contracts!…. “year-to-year and that they need to perform to earn their position.”

  42. I don’t even bother coming to this site to read comments any longer. It’s almost like the old Indy Star forum. seems that for the most part, one guy has ruined the entire site.

  43. As much as I want IU to be the best yesterday, I don’t want us to take back scholarships from young guys who were willing to come here in a bad situation. How could we possibly teach young men to honor their committments and keep their word if we don’t. Would make me very nervous about sending my son to play in that environment. Would he spend all his time worrying about whether he was being good enough to stay that he actually hurt his play?

  44. Bobby Sue, We all need to stop feeding him so he can’t spit out his hate about Crean and the IU players. I have been guilty of responding to his crap also, but if we all just stopped for a week I believe he would leave. No food no 4tards.

  45. You are correct. Ignore him. Ridicule is fun, though. Clowns deserve it. Just don’t pretend his comments have merit. They don’t.

  46. He simply is not an IU fan by any stretch. His disparaging comments about the coach, players and prospects do have merit, all negative. He is the only person I can think of who idols someone who surrendered a B10 challenge. He is a biased, negative, lonely and unsupportable troll.

  47. Terry-

    The falling domino tower of Pisa was a good chuckle, but not the best analogy. 4guards could never construct an argument that impressive in the first place, although the pathetic one that he does construct every day suffers the same fate.

    Notice how he pretty much gave up on the Zeller argument after you and Clarion brought in the heavy artillery. He’ll probably come back with some dismissive and evasive one liner to address the issue, and that’s it.

  48. New Scout rankings came out. Zeller is the #6 PF in the country. Top 25 player in the country. I guess it is not just me. It is also the professionals who think he will be a stud. Enough said. Aaron Thomas is #98 by the way.

  49. Scout consistently rates player higher than Rivals, and in my book, is not nearly as accurate of a predictor of success.

    But, why even bother looking at where Smeller ranks at all? Just look at his family history – these are clearly kids, like the Plumlees, who shine against (weaker) high school competition and flounder once they get to the next level.

  50. The last time I checked, Tyler has a national championship and will start for North Carolina the next 2 years. The Plumlees just won a national championship last year being key contributors off the bench.
    Muniru and Michel are just so much better. your right. Why bother with Zeller or Plumlee when we have Bawa and Michel. You are a genius.

  51. Zeller really showed off his No.6 ranking this past weekend, did he not. NOT!! After this AAU season is over that number 6 will multiply, by a bunch. You can not hide behind size in the AAU like you can in HS. We just got a glimpse this weekend of the myth that is Cody Zeller. His name will be forever remembered and associated with past myths Van Treese and Delray Brooks.

  52. 4tards: State Champions that sit on the bench or languish injured.

    Did you know that Travis Knight is technically a “World Champion”? He gained a ring sitting on the bench with the Lakers. Same goes for Kurt Rambis, and Luc Longley. Wow, real impressive.

  53. Bashing Zeller makes no sense. Zeller is a #1 priority for the Hoosiers right now. Some of you guys sound like you wanna give Michelle more of a “shot” to excell at IU rather than Zeller. Wake up. If Crean actually does land Zeller it will be hilarious to see all the apologists spin it into a huge win for CTC after they’ve done nothing but bash the kid.

  54. JB- You are so in bed with 4tards, it’s disgusting.

    It looks like the 55 year old army base hooker found her desperate soldier.

    Mark my words: I will never celebrate or spin a Zeller or a Plumlee signing into a positive. If either of them sign, they will be my least favorite player on the team. Hell Washington signed 5-star Spencer Hawes a few years ago and I still hate him, even after he has established a solid NBA career.

  55. JB is right. These same Crean apologists who are bashing Zeller now will all be jumping for joy if Crean can land him. That is just how it works with these people.
    They drink the Kool-Aid and blindly follow Crean no matter what he does.

  56. 4guards is making a whole name for his self with this method, only in reverse.

    He bashes the team and coach relentlessly when they are down, yet as they get better, he’ll try to distance himself from all criticism.

    He is a “Hoosier Fan” and hateful, unreasonable critic all wrapped in one. Neat.

  57. I simply commented on Zeller’s play bashed himself by his very tepid performance this past weekend. It becomes very clear as he moves up in age and competition on the AAU season he will expose his talent as more size than skill. This past weekend may be the first of many to be disappointing to many head coaches evaluating CZ. He better catch fire soon or he will be looked at in the future as more of a roll player.

  58. At the risk of getting shot from both sides of this argument let me say this:

    –IMO, Plumlee isn’t coming to IU, so worrying about his projected role/contribution isn’t worth the air it consumes.

    –Tyler Zeller averaged 5 boards and 9 points as a soph for the defending national champs. He will continue to do better. I think Cody projects to be about the same kind of player. Although I don’t think he is a center piece player, I want Cody at IU. He can help on the court in various roles and his signing would be tremendously symbolic for Crean.

    –I’ve viewed the Thomas video. He seems to want to come to IU in the worst way. At the two minute mark of the video, Dustin asks him about the schollie situation. He said that he had no concern at all.

  59. Bash a kid who won a state title over Dawson with 20 pts and 26 rbs. Praise a guy with more size who averaged 7 pts and 7 rbs at a JUCO out in Idaho. You have no credibility.
    What I really believe is that you have no faith in Crean being able to land him, so you are rolling out the excuses even earlier than usual.

  60. Thomas doesn’t even have an IU offer, he lied about it. His AAU coach is now saying Thomas prob won’t come to our elite camp. He said he had no concern at all because that is the first time he had heard about it.

  61. Wow…got to this conversation late today

    Zeller and Thomas would both help out IU.

    Where was Etherington ranked?

  62. Afraid of not landing Zeller? It would make my day, 4guards. While IU should feel bad about not getting in on guys like Gordon Hayward and Greg Oden in the past, it is a blessing in disguise that the Plumlees and the Zellers have had such contempt for IU.

    I’m afraid, however, has already bought into the Plumlee/Zeller hype machine. For that, and that only, I fault him. It’s not that I think that Bawa and Michel are better. What I think is that they are all risky projects. It’s not like we are comparing BMWs with Ford Focuses here.

  63. ..oops…”I am afraid that CREAN has already bought into the Smeller/Dumblee hype machine…”

  64. 4guards-

    Didn’t Tom Crean coach at Marquette? Isn’t the school just a couple hours north of Chicago? Seems like he had to do some recruiting there..Do you think? I wonder why he appears to be completely detached from the huge market(Chicago, suburbs, and Northwest Indiana) that exists to our north? Why should such a huge fishing hole for top basketball talent not get a toss of our hook and bobber? Is it too far to lug a Matt Painter’s tackle box? Seems to easy to just say the fish aint jumpin’ for a Big Red Hoosier worm. Doesn’t a good fisherman try different lures and move about the lake before pulling up anchor?

    •4guards | April 14th, 2010 at 2:58pm

    Zeller is the single most important recruit of the Tom Crean Era.

    Has it occurred to you that Tom Crean may be nothing more than another appeaser? And now with your statement above, you prove how simple to let him off your big fat blogging hook by not acting befuddled and bewildered why we ignore an uncommitted 5-star talent like Branden Dawson…Even if we don’t have a shot, why no chatter? Why no casting a line? You turn your back on such an obvious weakness our efforts to go after the kid from Gary Wallace because you honestly think Zeller can bring more to the Indiana Hoosiers than Branden Dawson? It’s easier to build up Zeller instead of driving your normal dirt road that could easily suggest Crean just can’t land the best? And shouldn’t “best” include the entire state? You’ve decided to ignore the simple fact that our coach desires more to feed the hunger of local influence. You’ve decided to ignore his preference for a bizarre form of state-segregated recruiting ignorance that enables teams like Purdue to go deep into the NCAA tournament with kids on their roster that steal our prominence as the school that used to be able to recruit all of Indiana?

    If you get your wish and Crean lands Zeller, it will only prove Crean’s refusal to broaden his horizons with statewide recruiting. But why? Unlike your deceitful sales job, I know it won’t be the result of any lacking in his abilities, but more his overwhelming desire to appease small town losers a chance to cheer for their local heroes. If you were truly wanting Indiana to revisit its winning ways, you would take off your blinders and ask the important questions…give an inkling of thought to wondering why more importance is placed on digging for talent in New Jersey, sucking up to an NBA coach by finding a home their son to play, and selling out scholarships for the appeasement of local natives. Yes, let’s keep going after the best in our state…the tiny guard from Bloomington South with a push-shot jumper that resembles the form a sixth grader and a skinny dork from Washington that has no business being called a “power” anything. It’s called appeasement…It’s called 4guards basketball.. And its for small town thinkers, backscratchers, bootlickers, “because its Indiana” preachers, and distorters of truth far removed the ideology and successful methods that once made IU basketball one of the most prominent programs in the nation.

  65. Painful but oh-so-true^^^. You build a successful program by recruiting your larger backyard, not just the backwater ponds of Great White Hope.

    Let me give an abridged version of the above treatise for the less-patient readers out there:

    …”And shouldn’t “best” include the entire state? You’ve decided to ignore the simple fact that our coach desires more to feed the hunger of local influence.

    …”Yes, let’s keep going after the best in our state…the tiny guard from Bloomington South with a push-shot jumper that resembles the form a sixth grader and a skinny dork from Washington that has no business being called a “power” anything.” (said sarcastically)

    and for the curtain call,
    …”It’s called 4guards basketball.. And its for small town thinkers, backscratchers, bootlickers, “because its Indiana” preachers, and distorters of truth far removed the ideology and successful methods that once made IU basketball one of the most prominent programs in the nation.”

  66. Husky-

    I didn’t see your post before I unloaded my heavily buttered toast.

    You’re right on target…Crean is appeasing the 4guards’ natives and buying into the “Smeller/Dumblee hype machine…”. And it’s not a path to change for the good.

  67. Dawson isn’t coming here, McGary could maybe help us get into that region a little though.

  68. ^ So typical. Michael Chandler is still out there at 6’10”, yet 4guards is salivating over the dweeby 3-star kid from Chesterton.

  69. Terry — The Chicago area is a hotbed of recruts. Multiple schools are involved and IU is not going to somehow become the Big Fish in that pond just because Crean coached at Marquette. Also it is really not that hard to “try” and build up Zeller the guy can play ball. There are some recruits out there like Plumlee and Dawson where it is just a given that they are not interested in IU. And if you don’t like Jordan Hulls you have a serious problem because that guy is gonna be running the show from here on out. BTW most people from Indiana would rather be considered from Washington, IN (small town) than Chicago IL.

  70. I won’t turn this into an urban-vs-rural conversation, but I’ll say without hesitation that the Zeller family could use an occasional trip to the big city.

  71. Why are some people saying that Zeller isn’t that good? He is a skilled big-man who makes players around him better. He isn’t going to be the dominant back to the bucket player, but he will be an above average college player.

  72. …and enjoy the entertainment of a drive-by shooting…a mugger at work in a park…or gangs partaking Saturday night at the fights…and ladies earning big bucks without being attired in their expensive clothes…just what every small town citizen should witness…

  73. Jubilee, If you haven’t figured it out yet, there are a lot of people on here who do not know much about basketball. More aspiring writers than basketball enthusiasts.
    How any IU fan could hate on Hulls or Zeller is beyond me.

  74. Clarion- You don’t need the big city to see most of the wonders you described. Just head out to your average small town in Greene County, Indiana, where you can see, free of charge:

    -Alcoholic rednecks who date their daughters

    -Majestic victorian homes, built in the 1920s, that now serve as the country’s finest methamphetamine botiques

    -Meth heads robbing convenience stores, then trying to flee in stolen police cars

    -8 year olds accidentally shooting their 5 year old brothers with their welfare parent’s “hobby” rifle

    -People so fat, they forget they have genitals

    …and much more!!!

  75. let’s not single out Greene County. Brown Co lead the nation a year or so ago in Meth lab busts. Question is: Do you feel safer in the country or the city??? Another question: Is Zeller worth all of this conversation??? I feel like we are talking about Damon B, Jeffries, or Gordon and that is just not the case!

  76. JB-

    A. (Ancestry) You need to learn a little Indiana basketball history, my friend.

    The only “Washington” that means diddly-squat in the storied history of Indiana high school basketball is East Chicago Washington.

    The 1971 East Chicago Washington Senators high school basketball team went undefeated (29-0) and won the Indiana state high school basketball championship. Some believe it was the greatest high school basketball team ever. Certainly it was among the greatest Indiana high school teams, placing it is some very elite company.

    My dad played football in Gary(All-State..he had scholarships to play for Michigan and Purdue)…Badmouth Gary and I break your girlie nose. Did you know Alex Karras was from Gary?

    B. (Bullshoot Bashing) If you could not see the sarcasim laced into my comments in reference to Hulls, you’re a bigger fool than 4guards. I love Jordy…Glory, Guts, Game, and Gumption written all over his Grumpy face….. But he does need spacing to launch that cannon from the hip. A healthy Creek, Roth’s 3-pointers from the fringes an Eric Gordon solar system, and a more athletic Guy in the middle will help open things up for Crean’s sixth grader ball.

    C. (Chesterton?) We’re looking at a kid from Chesterton? That’s in my old backyard..Let’s get that kid! I can see why his grades could be an issue..Very good school within the Duneland system..Puts Bloomington to shame..Chesterton has always had one of the top speech and debate teams in the nation..(from a public school that graduates around 300 students per year) They also have swim program and always bring great talent to the pool at state finals..The only reason they don’t dust Carmel’s swim team is because the small numbers(total team points)..Chesterton shines in relays and individual freestyle events.

    D. (Dawson/Donor) Maybe we can find an anonymous donor to put some funds in a Swiss bank account for the 5-star from Gary Wallace.. Where are those damn anonymous donors when you really need them?

    E. Enough said…(that’s for 4guards)

  77. Go Blackhawks-

    You are, and always will be, a pure delight…The “small town” one-liners go directly to the lockbox.

    Hilarious stuff.

  78. J Pat,

    It is almost as important to get him at this stage then those players. If he commits to IU, I believe the IU faithful will feel as if we are on the way back in a big way.

    1. Able to get a 5 star
    1a. Able to get a 5 star in our own backyard.

  79. Terry –

    A.) I meant the small town vs big city mentality not Washington specifically but I think you knew that.
    B.) Your sarcasm is terrible.
    C.) What is your point?
    D.) This must be your attempt at humor which much like your sarcasm leaves much to be desired.
    E.) Enough said…

  80. Blackhawk, but does Greene County offer drive-by shootings, park muggers, gang fights, enterprising nocturnal ladies in expensive clothes? I certainly missed it if it has.

  81. What bad could possibly be said about Gary? That is some real sarcasm for you there Terry.

  82. I love small towns…What big city allows you an entire day of diiiiverse shopping with headlights mounted to a grocery cart dat rivals the size of my Civic parked in dat there blacktop lot once a stupid cornfield?…There’s nothing like reenacting the 24 Hours of dat there Le Mans while searching for dat there set of cookware I found online…Dat there one the internet showed “available for pickup” at your nearest location….dat 28-piece set of Bobby Flay cookware in aisle 17 of the dat there Walmart out on our dat there bypass..the same dat there Walmart on the outskirts my dat there town that closed up everything but dat cheap flea market and da junk knickknack shops dat there replaced all dat once gave the true character of a vibrant place I used to dat there live.

    Dats all I got to say on da matter. Dat there enough said.

  83. Oops.

    Almost forgot..I think dat there enough for you to shake dat there ‘A’ through ‘E’ stick at all night, JB.

    Have fun.

  84. Clarion- I guess not, although you would be surprised at the level of meth gang activity in smaller towns these days.

    As to JPat’s question about where I feel safer, let me say this: Doesn’t it depend on where exactly in the big city you are, or in what small town you find yourself? For example, I feel perfectly safe, not to mention happy and energized, when walking around n the Queen Anne neighborhood in Seattle, Lincoln Park in Chicago, or Broad Ripple in Indy. On the other hand, I would feel downright terrified driving home at 8 pm on Friday night in Spencer, IN. Why? Because in these small towns,

    -Driving While Sober is a criminal offense, punishable by law

    -The center lines in the road are only suggestions. In practice, people drive on whatever side their drunken bodies happen to slump to.

    -Stopping at a convenience store is like a scene from the movie Deliverance. If you have short hair, your teeth in tact, and don’t smoke, you better get in and out of your car real quick.

    Of course, some of this is generalization, just like Clarion’s portrait of the big bad city teeming with gangsters and whores. In reality, both my comments and Clarion’s are gross overstatements based either on ignorance or the desire to have a few laughs.

  85. Blackhawk, I to live just one county away from one that is known as a hotspot for meth production. I travel the Great Lake region for business purposes and I usually find the most civil social gathering places in small towns to be the social clubs i.e. Elks, Legion, Eagles. In the cities it is easy to recognize where not to go.

  86. A word for 4tards: Hulls is an IU Hoosier, who dons the uniform with honor in a tough time for the program. No one in their right mind hates him.

    But Zeller? Are you kidding? Why on earth is it an automatic that I or anyone else should like him? He is an overrated and uncommitted high school kid whose haughty family has spurned IU twice already and is working on the three-peat.

    Sorry, but there ain’t no reason why he belongs in the same category as Hulls as players we should automatically like.

    Terry- Great vid of the y-chromosome. Have you seen Grandpa Zeller’s pic before?

  87. Wow. East Chicago Washington 1971. What a team. I was dating a cheerleader from Floyd Central and went to the final four that year. FCHS scored 88 points and lost by 14. A load of talent for both teams. Everybody knew about ECWHS but FCHS sent a kid to Wake Forest (Jerry Shellenberg) and another to Kentucky (Jerry Hale). Shellenberg became a star but Hale had to fight Mike Flynn (a classmate of mine) and Jimmy Dan Conner for PT.
    ECWHS sent Tgrovich to UCLA, Bridgeman to Louisville and Stoddard to NC State.
    Not sure they could have beaten the “Washington” team from Indy that had McGinnis, Downing, and Shepard, though.

  88. Knight had “The Season on the Brink”. For Crean they’re working on a movie called “The wiener takes it all” in which Crean’s role is played by this lady. Don’t tell Crean — it’s a surprise!

  89. ^^^I love how obsessed Chris is with Crean’s physical presence on the sideline. Clap, sausage, tan – that’s his entire critique in a nutshell.

    Did you know Kelvin Sampson looked like this?

  90. Actually Remora’s emoticon is like this.

    Here’s 4guards’ emoticon.

    Stay tuned for Clarion’s, Husky’s and Downing’s 5th’s (abundance of genitives).

  91. Blackhawk, I to live just one county away from one that is known as a hotspot for meth production. I travel the Great Lake region for business purposes and I usually find the most civil social gathering places in small towns to be the social clubs i.e. Elks, Golf Club, Legion. In the cities it is easy to recognize where not to go.

  92. Jubilee, no disrespect as I usually agree with all you say but what makes him so much better than other in state recruits? I am just curious! I just don’t get the fascination. I hope IU lands him and I do think he is the best of bunch in his family and I do think by his junior year of college he could be a force but he is not a game changer or a season changer!!!

  93. Chet, I to tend to think Indianapolis Washington was the superior team. Besides an unstoppable offense of both inside and outside scoring power, Downing, McGinnis and crew played a smothering defense, something ECW could not spell.

  94. Indianapolis Washington with Downing and McGinnis could smoke any of today’s most prominent Indiana high school teams….But then I’m a little bias.

    Michigan City Elston had a good team in the early 70’s..I think their center went on to Nebraska and a kid named Tony Branch went to Louisville. Muncie Central…Lafayette Jeff…Jeffersonville….Connersville…all great teams with strong tournament history. And heaven forbid to ever forget the “Big O” and Crispus Attucks. What a state for basketball. It’s a crime they ruined the great tradition of the one-class tournament hysteria responsible for coining the term “March Madness”.

  95. Last thought on teams from Northwest Indiana:

    Most I was ever impressed by lightening court speed and god-given abilities as a basketball player was from a kid named Alex Kiner from MC Elston(played at the other guard spot with Tony Branch)..He got me forever hooked on the game. Elston came to our little gym ranked #1 in the state…They annihilated us. They looked like an NBA team. I watched Kiner during warm-ups drain shot after shot from the corner baseline..He had the body of Michael Jordan in his heyday and looked like a grown man amongst our small town boys.

    Many years later I heard he never went to college(I’m not sure if he even completed his high school)…I remember someone telling me he became victim of Michigan City’s hard inner-city streets and temptations that led him from desperate circumstances to jail.

  96. Other damn good guards from Elston were Vernon Payne, Larry Gipson and O’Neil Simmons. A fine guard from a very obscure, rural school in LaPorte county was Larry Cunningham of South central. Cuuningham gave Gipson fits in a sectional game.

  97. Great recall. Great stuff from Chet too.

    Can’t forget the clutch performances of the kid from Plymouth. I know you’re probably not his biggest fan, but his performance at the state finals is truly legendary stuff. 69 points in two games and a buzzer-beater from 35 feet to send the Roosevelt game to overtime….Wow.

    Also found this article…Kind of interesting.

    We could go on forever…It’s been fun reminiscing. Take care, Clarion.

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