Hoosier Morning

BRYANT INDIANA BASKETBALL

Indiana guard Maurice Creek joined Twitter Tuesday. Chris Howell | Herald-Times

IT’S INDIANA

BIG TEN BASKETBALL

BIG TEN FOOTBALL

TAKE A LOOK

Counting Crows’ “A Long December.”

158 comments

  1. Remy Abell?
    We have no scholarships available for 2011 and we are wasting time on this kid?
    If tan cream strikes out in 2011, I would rather leave the scholarship for 2012 than take this kid.

  2. Do you think Crean continuing to recruit the 2011 class has a negative impact on the current roster? I mean some guys have to feel like the writing is on the wall with no available scholarships. IMO we need at least 2 transfers if not 3 for Crean to salvage the 2011 class.

  3. Buckley visited the kid to tell him they’re going to START recruiting him. He has not been offered, and has not yet even been to Bloomington.

    Don’t start freaking out prematurely.

  4. I am content with confidence Coach Crean will be making the best decisions for the program. I am also content 4tickturds will grow up some day to supervise the backyard sandbox with an agenda.

  5. Casey,
    Why start recruiting someone of this caliber with our scholarship crunch? It makes no sense.

  6. My 6yr old daughter doesn’t whine this much- just because you can comment doesn’t mean you have to.

  7. 4guards, you are sure opinionated in players and if IU should be recruiting this one or that one. Your formula is simple: if they are highly ranked=IU should recruit…if they are not ranked or not ranked very high=IU should not recruit!

  8. This just shows the shallowness and simple-mindedness of 4dodobird’s and his twin BJ’s thinking. If Abell (a Louisville kid) lived 15 minutes to the north (and was perhaps a shade lighter), the two dingbats would be hailing him as a great Indiana kid that Crean should be selling the farm to sign.

  9. JPat, Of course we should be recruiting highly ranked players over scrubs.
    I have been an advocate of Gant and McGary though as well and not sure if you would call them highly ranked.

  10. Get a life Husky. I never said anything negative about this kid. I asked how this impacts our current roster. I love Mo Creek and he is neither from Indiana or as you would like to put it “a shade lighter”. You are such a tool.

  11. “Abell, who led his AAU team with 17.4 points and 6.3 rebounds a game this spring, said his initial conversation with the Hoosiers was informal and he was told they wanted to ‘build a relationship.'”

    4guards,

    I don’t know why we’re recruiting him — I’m not the coach. But just read the clip above. IU isn’t pouncing on him in desparation. The conversation was “informal.” Telling a kid you want to “build a relationship” means “you’ve got potential, but you haven’t shown us enough yet to warrant an offer of any sort,” in my opinion.

    IU is probably showing interest in him for the same reasons Xavier (a Sweet Sixteen team) is beginning to.

    I don’t think he’s priority No. 1 for IU by any means, and all I’m saying is I think it’s premature to start freaking out or worrying we’re going to give him a scholarship over the players we’re clearly targeting for that class.

  12. we take what we can get right now, we take who is interested to come to IU and play…no more no less. If it is a scrub as you say so be it, if it is a prize recruit so be it. With that said, IU is not recruiting scrubs, they are recruiting kids that want to fight for IU right now!

  13. JB- I like tools. I have started collecting them. My favorites so far are the miter saw, the pry bar, and the nail gun. You might “surmise” (as our friend IUfanPurduePhD likes to say) that I have installed trimwork recently. You are correct.

    LMAO. (Liked My Artichoke Omelette this morning)

    You are a turd like 4tards, and deserve to be lumped in with him.

  14. Husky- I don’t mind being lumped in with 4guards. Whether you like it or not the guy makes some valid points in which some people answer with name calling versus addressing the issue. I don’t mind the mud, I actually enjoy the back and forth. I just don’t appreciate being labeled as some sort of racist…BTW pretty much the worst possible pic of Mo Creek to headline Hoosier Morning.

  15. The racism claims are over the top. Anybody who makes ubsubstantiated claims like that need to take a long hard look in the mirror.
    2 of my favorite 4 guys on the team are Creek and Watford by the way.

  16. He and you have a very unpopular opinion on this blog, a blog which consists mostly of postitive-minded people sharing the rational belief that a coach who brings in a top-10 recruiting class should be given more than one year with said class at full-strength before fans start blubbering and second-guessing.

    You have a right to think and say what you do, just as a college student has the right to eat a diet consisting entirely of doritos and energy drinks.

    Just don’t expect people to politely greet you. The two of you are like the two drunk Yankee fans at Fenway who gloat over an ARod homer and taunt the home crowd. If a beer shower comes your way, it is well-deserved.

  17. Its amazing to me Husky that you can not admit you were out of line. No wonder you are an apologist.

  18. I do not think we should worry too much about this 2011 class. We will have spots open for one or two players and hopefully the top players are the ones we get, but if they choose other colleges, then we will have backup plans, which are players like the ones offered recently. You always needs those.

  19. Why start recruiting someone of “this caliber”? Because some kids are late bloomers, and they rocket up in the rankings at a later date than their peers. And if that happens, you don’t want to be late getting in on the kid….he’ll remember who was there when no one else was looking at him.

  20. JBguards,

    It’s amazing to ME that you’re suprised by the lack of respect you and your partner in crime receive on this blog, when you exclusively post negative comments about almost everything related to the program and the decisions being made by everyone involved with it.

    Couple that with the fact that neither of you ever seems to stop and consider anyone elses opinion or view things from a different perspective, and refer to anyone who disagrees with you as an “Apologist,” and you really don’t create an environment in which people are going to want to have a civil discussion with you.

    Husky’s comments may have been over the top, but when all you do is one-sidedly berate all of us with your negative, biased, speculative nonsense on a daily basis, you can’t expect to be treated normally forever.

    I guarantee if you actually tried having a rational, two-way conversation with most of these posters — one in which every opinion offered is actually considered and respected — you’d see the negativity thrown your way disappear.

  21. Honestly a question for all of consistency here…

    If this is site for ‘positive minded people sharing the rational belief that a coach who brings in a top-10 recruiting class should be given more than one year with said class at full-strength before fans start blubbering and second-guessing.’ Then why are we also discussing and lambasting people for questioning the scholarship crunch?

    Am I mistaken to say that someone we will be pushing out the door would have to be from this heralded top 10 class that you are also asking everyone to give a chance and is the basis of your confidence?

    I get both sides, I really do, and I understand that Crean feels the need to ‘win now’ thus the Michel signing, but it still leaves us in an uncomfortable situation:

    1. We don’t get anyone worth fawning over out of a really solid group on in-state talent for 2011.

    2. We push out one or more of the class that everyone uses as their basis for believing in Crean, so it either wasn’t really a top 10 class, or we don’t care that it was a top-10 class and want to replace it. Either way it’s not positive unless its a for sure impact guys replacing them.

    3. We push someone out like a Pritch, Verdell, or Roth who have busted their butts for 3 years when no one else would come here. Not the best practice or PR move for a place with some Negative light already across the nation.

  22. Hoagland, Good post but you are forgetting that none of us know the minds and hearts of our players and coaches. They have one on one meetings all the time and I would bet that a plan is in place to
    answer this scholarship problem that everyone one wants to talk about. Our Coach was hired to rebuild IU basketball and he will be judged by his performance and all this crap back and forth means nothing.

  23. Hoagland,

    I don’t think anyone is denying the glaring obstacle that our current scholarship presents, nor do I think anyone is truly angered over people discussing it — I just think most are confident that it will (has to) work out eventually.

    I understand your concerns about the ramifications of some sort of roster shake-up from a PR standpoint, but I think IU is in a truly unique situation here. There’s really not a lot of precedent for dealing with something like this, and I think down the road, most will look back on this and understand that early attrition was almost inevitable, and perhaps necessary in the rebuilding process.

    Crean really didn’t have many options coming in. He had to quickly compensate for the fact that in his first year, he was essentially competing with a team of walk-ons and career scout teamers. So what did he do? He overloaded his first class with promising players to ensure the next year’s team would be more competitive. In a situation like this, where the fan base is so demanding of instant improvement, and our future recruiting successes depend largely on that improvement, Crean really can’t afford to consider much more than “what will make my team better THIS year?”

    I think most objective observors realize that, especially within the context of Indiana University basketball. This isn’t a YMCA youth league, and it may sound harsh, but some players may end up elswhere, for their own good and the good of IU’s future.

    It’s funny — so many fans tout the fact that “this is Indiana,” and anything other than excellence on the court, and in recruiting, is unacceptable, but at the same time criticize the possibility of Crean pushing a player out the door. The reality, however, is that in order to regain those levels of success, some players will most likely have to finish their careers elsewhere.

  24. 4guards: “It makes no sense.”
    JB: “Sounds about right.”

    All prejudice is founded in close-mindedness. You are entitled to your opinions, but don’t claim there is any balance aimed toward fairness in your thinking. Everyday on this blog you plant the divisive words of your ill-guided intent. Your mission is plant seeds of contempt..Your mission is to divide. Whether Tom Crean was the best hire for the job is now irrelevant. All men deserve a level of fairness and not a constant bombardment of shadows of doubt cast upon there every move. It’s tiresome and it’s wrong.

    It may be politically incorrect to extrapolate such unfounded hatred into the ugliness that more often infects society at large, but is it such a leap? How many times have we heard our coach referred to as “The Tan One” on this blog? Continue to make your demeaning comments, but don’t expect none to take offense.

  25. Very well said Shadows.This blog site has become ANTI-Crean oriented here lately.He could sign a few 5 star recruits and still get drilled.
    I guess some would call me an apologist because I will cheer for Indiana whoever is the Coach!!!
    I hope that will continue to be Crean..

  26. steve, That is not very realistic considering he has never signed a 5 star recruit in his life. The one time he made it to the Final Four he got drilled by over 30 pts with Wade, Deiner, Novak, and Jackson on his team. He just cannot handle the big time.
    If he were to miraculously learn how to coach and recruit, I would become his biggest supporter.

  27. So, what you’re saying is you’re only positive and supportive when the team and coach are successful.

    I think there’s a term for that…

  28. I support the team, not the coach. How do you support a coach who is running the program into a hole it may never recover from?

  29. Also, 4guards — How do you expect us to take you seriously when you tout Alford’s abilities as a coach and endlessly rip Crean’s?

    You casually knock Crean for “the one time he made it to the Final Four,” when Alford never has. You say he “just cannot handle the big time” because his team was blown out by Kansas in the Final Four (although they beat No.1 ranked Kentucky by 14 to get there, which you of course omitted), when Alford’s most recent No. 3 Lobos squeaked by a 14-seed in the first round of the tournament, only to be drubbed by No. 11 Washington by a margin of 18 points in the next round.

    You also use to hang Pat Knight above IU fans’ heads, until his team started tanking.

  30. 4guards: “…a coach who is running the program into a hole it may never recover from”

    What, exactly, is the basis for that statement? That Crean isn’t recruiting who you think he should be recruiting? Please. The coach who ran us into that hole you speak of was one Kelvin Sampson. Crean is just trying to pick up the pieces and make us competitive again. If we don’t show substantial improvement this year (by that I mean 15+ wins), then maybe you can start to doubt Crean’s plan. Until then, please try to keep your constant anti-Crean hyperbole under control.

  31. If you recall, the program was already in the hole when Crean was brought on board.

    Can you please outline how Crean is running the program into the ground?

    Is it the great foundational recruiting class he brought in on the heels of a 6-25 season? Is it the 3.2 average team GPA? Is it the way he’s relentlessly recruiting every major in-state prospect? Is it because he’s making concerted efforts to reconnect with alumni who became estranged from the program during the Davis and Sampson years? Is it the way he makes it a priority to connect with fans and emphasizes the importance of family? Is it because he values current players’ input on which recruits gel with the team the most? Maybe it’s all of the major recruiting violations he’s accrued in his short tenure? Or is it the way he praises and values the dedication and support of the IU fan base?

    No, maybe he’s running the program into the ground by clapping too much on the sidelines and being too enthusiastic about his job. Is that it?

    Or wait — I’ve got it. It’s because he’s too tan. Everyone knows coaches that are tan regularly run programs into the ground.

    The rebuilding process may be progressing slower than you’d like, but Crean is far from running the program into the ground.

  32. Well done, Casey. I think the body of evidence you presented speaks for itself. Crean just isn’t the guy. Fire him immediately and move on while we still can! The tanning and clapping in particular are just intolerable.

  33. 4guards- Correct again.

    Casey- It is a valid question. You claim fans were estranged during the Davis years. Honestly what is the difference between Crean and Davis in your opinion? Were you a Davis fan?

  34. Crean is running the program into the ground because some players never progressed (Tijan, Bawa) and some have actually regressed (Pritchard, Dumes) while others (Malik Story, Nick Williams) transferred when they could have been so useful should an injury occur (as it did with Creek). He is also relying too much on that guy whose only asset is that his father coaches the Celtics. Too bad Doc can’t play for us because his son surely can’t but does. Oh, wait, he has a great GPA, how can I ignore that? Unfortunately his GPA can’t improve his free throw shooting, or his shooting in general — and Crean does not want to rely on Hulls as much because he thinks Doc Rivers’ son should play because … because that’s what Crean wants, clap, clap, clap!

    He is also running the program into the ground because recruits everywhere see how we play and realize they’d better sign with other programs.

  35. Running program into the ground =
    Not retaining anybody or not being able to retain anybody except for Tabor. (NCAA was very easy on us)
    5 Big 10 wins in 2 years.
    16-46 record.
    Currently has 2 IN kids on scholarship on entire roster.
    Poor fundamentals, dribble drive offense, Lazy zone defenses, Team can’t hit free throws.
    Irritating IN high school coaches.

  36. Your arguments fail when they become inextricably intertwined with your own personal opinions, which are certainly not universal (example: obsession with IN players).

    Irritating IN high school coaches? You know this how??? It seems that most coaches and recruits are more comfortable with Crean than Sampson, at least from their public comments.

    I get the comments about the overall record and lack of wins. However, if he was truly running the program into the ground, I would expect that we would be getting progressively worse instead of better. Again, let’s see where we are after this year.

    Sadly, I actually agree with you about the offense – I’m not a fan of the style, but think it will improve when we have the right personnel and/or those players are not injured (Creek). I think the zone defense was played out of necessity due to our lack of any sort of interior defensive presence. I doubt we’ll see as much zone this year.

    Also, please at least learn how to spell our former players’ names correctly – it’s Taber.

  37. I am so disparaged at 4tickturds being disappointed and pessimistic the past two years. It is just sickening to hear the supreme being of basketball enlighten us with the nuances of the IU program. But that must be the way it is because 4tickturds says so. Hail 4tickturds!

  38. The irritating IN high school coaches comes from Rabjohns. He said that they feel spurned because Crean continues to chase kids out of state that he doesn’t even end up landing. It also is pretty obvious considering we only have 2 IN kids on scholarship.

  39. We ALL KNOW that the “hole” was created by Sampson before Coach Crean arrived. That is an established FACT! We also all know that when Coach Crean arrived, IU had the worst program for men’s basketball in the Big-Ten: one walk-on scholarship player, Taber, and two low ranked freshmen signed by Sampson, Roth and Pritchard. Coach Crean did what he could to get some more bodies for the 2008-09 season and began work for 2009 recruiting. He did a great job in finding one high quality player for 2008, VJ3. Then for 2009 he landed a great recruiting class of 6 high quality recruits (#41,56,101,107,112 and Capo). For 2010 he landed 2 high quality recruits (#141, 144) and a 7′ JUCO with experience with the U-20 French National team. There is argument possible for my next point that, at the end of year 2, IU now is ahead of Iowa, PN St, MI and MN, in men’s Big-10 basketball, as a program. I think that the facts are on my side. Many think that Coach Crean has accomplished about as much as quickly as possible (I am in this group). Some think that he has been too little, too slow. A very few feel that he is a terrible coach. But NO ONE believes that he created the “hole”. I, for one, am very glad that we have a commitment to/from Austin Etherington for 2011 and not to Donny Hale for one of our precious few scholarships! I think that most IU fans see Coach Crean as having a minimum of 4 full years to show what he can do. We will watch to see how the Hoosiers play in 2010-11 and how we recruit for 2011 and 2012. Then we will expect a LOT in the 2011-12 season!

  40. The mighty Casey gets upset if you question the method to Crean’s madness. He says its not fair that people are so critical of his beloved coach. He claims he only wants civil debate but yet he is unable to answer two simple questions.

    1. What is the difference between Davis and Crean in his own words.

    2. Was he a Davis fan?

    These questions have stumped the mighty Casey.

  41. 4 guards,Let me guess your solution is to fire Crean and hire Alford! Huh, how many final fours has he been to as a head coach? Why aren’t you hearing his name mentioned for any other coaching jobs around the country?Has he signed any 5 star kids?Any Indiana Kids ? Please let me know

  42. BeatPurdue, You are wrong. When Crean arrived he had many players, not just one walk-on scholarship player. Also funny how you give Sampson credit for Roth and Pritchard, but not Elston. The 2010 class is a joke regardless of how you try to build it up.
    If Crean fails to reach .500 and misses out on Zeller and Davis…. get on the phone with Alford or Stevens because Crean is out of here.

  43. JB,

    I apologize for not being at my computer 24 hours a day, monitoring the Scoop.

    1. Be more specific. Narrow your question. Do you want to know the difference between their coaching styles, their haircuts, their coaching careers?

    2. I thought Davis was a nice man and a good recruiter who was in over his head and charged with the impossible task of coaching in the aftermath of Knight’s exit. His chances for success were minimal. I also though he was a mediocre on-court coach. I wasn’t an avid “fan,” but I wasn’t anti-Davis.

    If you don’t think that a lot of alumni became estranged during the Davis years (as a result of Knight’s controversial firing) and the Sampson years (as a result of his disregard for the IU tradition and his propensity for cheating), then you’re not very perceptive.

    I really don’t see what my feelings about Davis have to do with Tom Crean, but be more specific about your first question and I’ll respond. Beware, it may take more than 37 seconds for me to see and respond to your post.

  44. Casey- Glad to have you back. Lets try again.

    Is Crean a better Coach than Davis? Who would you rather have? Why? I really don’t think there is much difference between the two. It sounds silly to say you were not a Davis fan but not anti-Davis either. I think there is a term for that.

    I was not a Davis fan. Like you I thought he was a great guy in over his head. I think pretty much the same thing regarding Crean. I cheered for IU during the Davis years and I’m cheering for Iu during the Crean years. But that doesn’t mean I was happy with the coach.

    I know much of the fan base did not like the Davis hire. This probably includes you. The point is why is Tom Crean getting a pass? Why all the “outrage” over 4guards and I questioning Crean when it was ok to openly question Davis?

  45. JB,

    Crean is a better coach than Davis, yes. If I recall correctly, he had something like nine consecutive seasons of 20+ wins, and maintained that level of winning after Marquette moved into the Big East. His ability to handle the scrutiny and level of expectations that come with being the IU coach also surpasses Davis’ ability to do so. You could see Davis caving under the constant pressure to win that he faced (evidenced in his teams’ play, and missing the tournament two years straight with capable lineups). Despite guys like you and me discussing his every move, Crean has remained upbeat and is constantly looking forward.

    If you’re forcing me to classify myself in a more black and white manner – “Davis fan” or “Not a Davis fan” — then I’d have to say I wasn’t. But only for reasons of coaching decisions. And for the record, it’s fine to question, but what you and 4guards seem to do more than anything is simply get on here and post declarative negative statements.

    You don’t seem to be questioning or actually making attempts to really understand where Crean might be coming from in some of the things he’s doing. And you seem to be failing to realize that the situation in which Crean inherited the program was pretty much uprecedented. There’s no blueprint for coming out of it. I understand the frustration over where our program is; I don’t understand the unreasonable impatience.

    As I’ve stated multiple times before, I am by no means a blind believer in Crean. If he ends up turning our program around, I wouldn’t be surprised in the least. On the other hand, if he just falls short overall, I wouldn’t be shocked, but I think it’s insane to judge a coach’s merit based on two seasons – one of which featured only two returning players with combined PPG averages of three. Regardless of who the coach is, he deserves more than two years to build from the ground up.

    If you want to question, then question — but what’s the point of doing it all with such a negative skew?

  46. Mike Davis 200-126
    Tom Crean 206-142
    Mike Davis has 2 more tournament wins including a trip to the championship.
    I would pass on both, but not sure how the Apologists think Crean is a better coach.
    JB is correct in saying they are pretty similar. I would give the slight edge to Davis.

  47. Casey, BeatPurdue, Clarion, et al.: I don’t think arguing with 4guards and JB is worth your time. There’s no amount of stats or facts that’s going to change their mind, so why bother?

    (And I’m not against questioning the coach, but I surmise (you’re welcome Husky Tom!) that nothing will satiate your appetite for negativity. There is a difference between questioning in the genuine pursuit of knowledge and questioning to raise a stink.)

  48. Mike Davis: 200-126 (.613)
    Steve Alford: 384-209 (.648)

    Mike Davis: 6 career tournament wins
    Steve Alford: 4 career tournament wins

    Mike Davis: 1 Final Four appearance, 1 championship appearance
    Steve Alford: 0 Final Four appearances, 0 championship appearances

    Mike Davis has 2 more tournament wins including a trip to the championship. I would pass on both, but not sure how the Apologists think Alford is a better coach. I would give the slight edge to Davis.

  49. Just ignore 4guards. In other news, one of IU football’s 2011 commits made the Rivals 250 and is now a 4-star.

  50. Actually Dr. Purdue no stats or facts will change your mind. Are we supposed to pretend stats and facts don’t exist? I guess you were a Davis fan too. Its not about being negative, we are actually objective and don’t read everything with Crimson colored glasses on. If you want to believe its just 4guards or JB who question this guy fine that is your right but the truth is a lot of fans are concerned about this program hence $5 balcony seats.

  51. Why would I repeate what 4guards just did?

    The point I’m making is that you can line up the numbers and make a lot of coaches look equal — even the beloved Steve Alford.

    I think there’s far more to comparing coaches than the numbers alone, however. Numbers, for instance, do not take into account the conference, out-of-conference schedules, unique situations (like Crean’s), etc.

    I guess we’ll find out the difference between Crean and Davis in the coming seasons.

    It’s harder to coach at Marquette, in the Big East and IU, in the Big Ten, than it is to coach UNM or UAB. Let’s be serious. Hell, UNM finished tied for first place in its conference two seasons ago and STILL only went to the NIT. This year, UNM was alone at 1st, and lost to an 11-seed in the tournament.

    UAB once finished 2nd in its conference and didn’t make the tournament at all.

    You finish 2nd in the Big Ten or Big East, and you’re going to the NCAA tournament as a high seed. That’s why simply sticking their numbers side by side doesn’t always make sense.

  52. Responding to some of the accusations made against me and my “outlandish” comment earlier, I believe that I only made an innuendo about 4tards’ (and PB&J’s) racial preferences. If you recall, there was a “perhaps” in the equation…I didn’t call anyone a racist.

    In fairness, however, one has to question anyone who calls Cody Zeller the “most important recruit in the the Tom Crean era.” L.M.A.O. (Lemmings Might Acquire Opium).

    I can think of six or seven recruits who are or have been equally, if not more important than Zeller during the Crean era (no particular order):

    1) Kyrie Irving
    2) Josh Selby
    3) Maurice Creek
    4) Christian Watford
    5) Verdell Jones
    6) Branden Dawson
    7) Hanner Perea

    …etc etc

    Need I go on?

  53. You are exactly correct, JB. There has been constant desire for witch hunts since the firing of Knight. And you are part of the same dysfunctional 4guards sect that appears to be hellbent on turning the Hoosier family on itself.
    I believe most realistic IU fans(the hundreds of thousands that don’t spend every waking hour to blog a fair and just opinion) will give our coach the chance that he deserves.

    I’ll never forget going to the regional semifinal game when the Hoosiers defeated #1 Duke under Mike Davis. I went to the pregame pep rally and was astounded the low turnout. We were playing the best team in the nation with a chance to be one step from a Final Four and there seemed to be less than 100 fans at the event…I stood next to the vilified Myles Brand..I truly believe a segment of Hoosier fans(using the term “fans” very loosely)wished failure for Davis and Myles Brand…For me personally, it made the miraculous come-from-behind victory against the Blue Devils all the sweeter…I wanted to see Davis succeed. Why in hell would I care if his players were Knight recruits?…Under the pressures of a fan base placing enormously exaggerated expectations on his shoulders in the absence of true support, I think Davis achieved everything and more his predecessor could have achieved in a game of such magnitude..We came just one victory short of hanging another banner in Assembly. And it is also my viewpoint that even without the phone call scandal, Sampson would have faced the same continual shadows of doubt, the clouds of criticism, that followed Davis. When will the missions of destruction stop? Will we have to wait until anyone associated with IU basketball during the Knight era is six feet under?

    It’s time we finally give someone a real chance to succeed. The college years go fast..like everything..Young people shouldn’t have to wait until there my age to have a bright outlook and positive feelings about the team they so want to attach to and cheer for. The negative rants aimed at Crean extend far beyond the coach.

    I will not lose faith in IU basketball because a vengeful and dysfunctional segment, a very small minority that seizes any forum possible to spew negativity, continues to adhere to a belief the only way to a better future is destroying today.

  54. oops..

    “…until [they’re] my age to have a bright outlook and positive feelings about the team they so want to attach to and cheer for.”

  55. Bravo, Mr. Shadow. Bravo. That is as close to a “Final Word” as I have seen on this topic. I think your words give me the peace of mind to no longer feel the need to engage with JBguards or any other of the Anyone But Crean Apologists (The ABC Apologists – thanks to Casey for that one).

    You are sorely right on the topic of the stuck-in-the-past Knight Worshippers. They are a tiny minority who unfortunately uses the blogs as their main forum to try to sway the minds of the faithful. The real world (beyond the internet) is full of true fans exhibiting patience and rationality.

    I truly feel like next year, the Hoosier ship will finally get beyond the coastal waters into the deep blue sea of competitive basketball, and the tiny sect of Crean haters will be further marginalized to the point of non-importance.

    Until then…LET’S GOOOOO BLACKHAWKS!!!!!!!!!

  56. I will not lose faith in IU basketball because a vengeful and dysfunctional segment, a very small minority that seizes any forum possible to spew negativity, continues to adhere to a belief the only way to a better future is destroying today.

    The only one destroying “today” is Crean.

    A small minority indeed, but with a big salary.

  57. UCLA – after Wooden,
    Bartow
    Cunningham
    Brown
    Farmer
    Hazzard
    Harrick
    Lavin
    Howland
    Doesn’t really matter what any individual thinks. History has proven that it is difficult to follow a legend.

  58. JB,

    You are not objective. I am not objective. Nobody is objective. (And you and 4guards are the first to rejoice about anything that paints Crean in a negative light, even if it’s pointless–e.g. the “Smarmy” poll–so how in the world could you ever call yourself objective?)

    That commences today’s lecture on [post-]modernity.

  59. 4guards and JB badmouth Crean the way an IU fan rips on Calipari.

    There’s something wrong with that.

    You can BS all you want about “supporting the team” and simply not liking the coach, but bashing the coach on a daily basis and reveling in his supposed shortcomings is not demonstrative of someone who supports the team.

    Realize that Crean’s the coach, and move on. Support the team in other ways. You can’t support the team and root against the man leading it simultaneously. I don’t think that works.

  60. It’s been said many times but it obviously deserves repeating. If you just ignore 4tards and his roommate it will cut out most of their insipid posts. A brief mocking, perhaps, but responding to their posts as if they were legitimate may leave the implication that they have merit, which they obviously don’t.

  61. Good point, Chet — It’s just so easy to point out the holes in their logic. All right, I say we all just ignore 4guards & Co. in favor of some sort of attempt at actual constructive, enjoyable conversation.

    Anyone game?

  62. Lord of the Clappers,

    That was so unbelievably funny! Thank you.

                       .'\   /`.
                     .'.-.`-'.-.`.
                ..._:   .-. .-.   :_...
              .'    '-.(o ) (o ).-'    `.
             :  _    _ _`~(_)~`_ _    _  :
            :  /:   ' .-=_   _=-. `   ;\  :
            :   :|-.._  '     `  _..-|:   :
             :   `:| |`:-:-.-:-:'| |:'   :
              `.   `.| | | | | | |.'   .'
                `.   `-:_| | |_:-'   .'
             jgs  `-._   ````    _.-'
                      ``-------''

  63. I only speak for myself, but I don’t root against Crean. We would just be better off without him.

  64. I about fell out of my chair laughing so hard at that Crean recruiting call. I wonder if that is how he lost Teague?

  65. The trend these days seems to be to indicate your scholarly title in your screen name. Just thought I would join the mix.

  66. Come on fellas^^^, let’s go back to mocking 4jb’s and Eline. Enough with the foolery.

  67. Glad to see COACH CREAN at Hubers last night..
    There is no one rooting harder for him to have sucess as the Hoosiers coach than I am…

  68. Look (as B.O. says), like him or hate him, believe in him or doubt him, consider him good, bad or average, Crean is our coach and will remain so for the time being. So why not give it a rest once and for all, and focus on what is important – i.e., the kids coming to Bloomington to wear the jersey. I am tired of all the experts posting meaningless gibberish on this board. Whipping the coach serves no purpose. There is a reason he was given a multi-year contract, and a reason why any coach coming to IU after Kelvin the Cheater would have demanded a lucrative, multi-year deal. There is no calvary waiting over the hill to ride in and save the day. We need to make the best with what we have for the time being.

  69. You’re the man, steve. I don’t know, though; I may be rooting just as hard as you are.

  70. Harvard JD and Northwestern Rocket Scientist: you guys need to look up the definition of “irony.” But of course I included my degree (it’s not a scholarly title) in my screen name because I’m better and smarter and more educated and more refined than you… not because it’s ironic. I’m always wearing a t-shirt that says I’ve got multiple graduate degrees, and I don’t let anyone call me “Mr.” without interrupting them and insisting they call me “Dr.” You two have cut to the core of me.

    Notre Dame M.Phil: well played, sir.

    Chet: I plan to inaugurate your policy posthaste… starting nnnnnnnnnow. 1 2 3 now.

  71. There is a reason he was given a multi-year contract,

    Oh, we’ve been there already.

    Everybody knows the reason Crean was given a multi-year contract plus a two year extension without coaching a single game.

  72. IUfanPurduePhD: I would strongly caution you against the [ab]use of trite and cliché scholarly writing techniques on a basketball blog, such as the brackets around part of a word to try and milk multiple meanings. There are plenty of graduate students that come on to this blog that see right through that kind of stilted elitist jargon.

    Yes, I understand that when we publish, we must conform on some level to the conventions of our field, which leads us to spout B.S. like “Here I shall endeavor to unpack the complex matrix of meanings which map out spatially over an East/West divide.”

    But let’s keep it in its place, in the journals, where it belongs.

  73. Flyers beat Blackhawks last night 4-3 in OT in Game 3 — Crean Apologists Can’t Get Anything Right.

  74. go flyers/Chris-

    …and Chicago is still ahead 2-1 in the series, with home ice advantage. As usual, the Crean Apologists are always one step ahead of, and more grounded in reality, than the AnyoneButCrean Apologists.

  75. Not to mention, Chris Pronger has apparently paid the refs to ignore the 10 penalties per game he commits…

  76. ^^^ An apologist remains an apologist no matter what he decides to take on.

  77. At first there seems to be an initial refusal…a wondering and purposeless anxiety begins to set in ….I mostly blame the overbearing women they can’t escape.

    It’s time we all have a little empathy.

  78. Apologism is actually just a fancy word for advocating for a cause or doctrine. I did no such thing in my last post. Nice try though — try finding a new annoying word to use 🙂

  79. Casey,

    Because you don’t know the difference between apologism and apologetics you are hereby referred to this Wikipedia entry.

    You are an apologist because the gist of your arguments are never-ending series of appalling excuses in support of your very narrow-minded point of view. Plus I suggest that you leave Chris Pronger alone.

    😉 There!

  80. Just curious on this one. I always just state my opinion but now I feel like I am an apologist just because I support Crean. I have never sat back and thought…what excuse can I make for Crean and the team to get back at this poster/blogger. I truly just state my opinion and facts when I know them. This is too weird!

  81. JPat, I never considered you an apologist. You have always been honest. Truly honest — seriously. I say this because you had your doubts and expressed them here openly. Crean apologists on the other hand (for example Casey, Husky, Clarion) seldom doubt anything. They simply seem to know everything. Crean is the best! (Just don’t switch Romar with Crean, for some of them!)

  82. I have never heard anyone on here apologize for Coach Crean, ever. On the other hand I have heard a poster or two with biased, negative agendas disparage our coach but considering they are not IU fans it gains no momentum.

  83. Wikipedia,

    First of all — huge fan. I used you many a time in college to fraudulently bolster my list of citations for research papers. Also, thank you for correcting my usage of words and philosophies derived from the word “apology.” My mistake.

    But since you’ve spoken up, let’s take a look at your article on APOLOGETICS. 😉

    In it, you state “In modern times, apologists refers to authors, writers, editors or academic journals, and leaders known for defending the points in arguments, conflicts or positions that receive great popular scrutinies and/or are minority views.”

    Let’s dissect that.

    – Am I an author, writer, editor, academic journalist or distinguished societal leader? No.

    – Do I defend the points in arguments, conflicts or positions that receive great POPULAR scrutinies and/or are MINORITY views? No. I actually reinforce beliefs held by the majority of reasonable IU fans. You, and those that share your views, actually fall within the minority of the IU fan base. Most of us are being more patient in reigning down our final judgments on Crean.

    You also say that Apologetics is “the discipline of defending a position (usually religious) through the systematic use of reason.”

    If I’m guilty of defending a position through the systematic use of reason, then so be it. I’m OK with that.

    Tertullian,

    You obviously see what you want to believe. In fact if you jump up to one of my earlier posts on this very thread, you’ll find this:

    “As I’ve stated multiple times before, I am by no means a blind believer in Crean. If he ends up turning our program around, I wouldn’t be surprised in the least. On the other hand, if he just falls short overall, I wouldn’t be shocked, but I think it’s insane to judge a coach’s merit based on two seasons – one of which featured only two returning players with combined PPG averages of three. Regardless of who the coach is, he deserves more than two years to build from the ground up. ”

    That pretty much sums up my stance right there. I’m not Crean’s best friend, I just think it’s laughably ridiculous how many people have judged Crean’s performance based one year’s team of rag-tags and walk-ons, and the next year’s of freshmen and transfers.

  84. Casey,
    Your last sentence is the best synopsis of the Hoosiers last two seasons of BB and the negative opinions about.

  85. Casey,

    You’re good. The difference, then, is: can one have any doubt about Crean’s coaching ability in just these past two years? You say it’s not possible to judge Crean’s performance either way. (Did I misunderstand that?) Then I say: let’s not pay him, because we don’t know how much, because we have no criterion to judge if he works well or not. Let’s give him the money when we can judge his performance, later. You’d do the same with someone who builds a house. Until you see what he’s building and can count on it it’s foolish to throw the money at him.

    But I say that you can already judge what kind of coach he is.

  86. Terts,

    You know as well as I do that coaches’ salary numbers, like investments, are based on a careful consideration of projected future performance. Apparently, enough people feel that Crean will pan out and the money will be worth it.

    I hope they’re right, because aside from the slower-than-expected resurrection of our program, Crean carries himself well and represents the university with pride and a visible understanding and appreciation for the tradition at Indiana University. At the very least, that’s something we can declare an absolute improvement from his two predecessors.

  87. Casey, thanks for your answer. Crean’s PR is definitely one of the best in his business (so far). But like a used car salesman he may not care. If he fails, with the money saved he can easily go and become a BTN analyst like DiNardo. So it’s not a very big risk for him.

    Also let me correct you: not “enough people” believe in him, just those who hired him (some of which are not here anymore). If he fails badly this coming season Glass may start realizing that he never hired a basketball coach yet, and may decide it’s time to try his hand at that — given that he’s the AD after all. Crean needs to back up his PR with actions and facts, and ultimately with wins or Glass might decide like in the case of Freitag that the program does not appear to go in the right direction.

    Crean’s demeanor in public may be good but didn’t we have chants of “Throw a chair! Throw a chair!” in Assembly Hall last year? Too much decorum, which you cite as an “absolute improvement over his two predecessors,” just like the team’s GPA, and like moral vicories, and like the visible understanding and appreciation of tradition, etc. isn’t really what we’re after. For example Crean spent a great deal of time last summer to tell everybody how improved Eric Arnett was after practicing with the basketball team for one half of a season. Everybody was asking about Tijan’s improvement and Mr. Crean was busy touting Eric Arnett’s growth!? The fact that Arnett was with the baseball program didn’t seem to matter at all. ?! Pure nonsene… I’m tired of it. We need to see improvement in our basketball players, period.

    And now he says he underestimated IU’s recruiting task. Well, whose mistake is it? Mine? Is it 4guards’ or JB’s? It’s Crean’s job to not underestimate. Obviously he’s making mistakes. The good part is that he admits them. You and the other apologists never admitted that he made mistakes. He’s better, far better than you in that regard…

  88. Again, I don’t think I’ve ever professed Crean’s immunity to criticism — but there’s criticism and then there’s just over-the-top bashing and rushed expectations.

    You speak of player development, but until this year, who has Crean really had the chance to develop? Were there a lot of diamonds in the rough on a team that featured Taber, Finkelmeir, Moore, Jobe, Arnett, Barnett, Pritchard, and an IU janitor?

    Did you really expect any of the returning players from that roster to be markedly better moving forward?

    This is the first year Crean’s had talented players to develop, and the jump from year one to two is widely regarded as the most noticeable and significant in college basketball players. How can you judge Crean’s ability to develop players when this coming season will present the first opportunity to measure that fairly?

    I think you misinterpret a lot of my comments. I’m not blindly defending the man, I’m just being truthful.

    And regarding Arnett — the fact that a member of the baseball team was also on the BASKETBALL team should tell you just how ridiculously dire the circumstances were…

    Finally, I think I’ve admitted before that Crean has made mistakes, and have acknowledged question marks about his ability. But anyone stepping into the post-Sampson disaster area deserves a fair shake, and Crean has not yet had that opportunity.

    If stating those facts makes me an apologist, then that’s fine.

  89. Casey, I agree: I am being too hard on you. You once told me to choose a side because being on the fence is boring. So I jumped on you now for the sake of the debate. Take it easy, thanks for all you wrote and all the best to you. I enjoyed our discussion and once again thank you for it.

  90. And regarding Arnett — the fact that a member of the baseball team was also on the BASKETBALL team should tell you just how ridiculously dire the circumstances were …

    Not dire enough to try to keep Jordan Crawford, apparently.

  91. Wiki,

    What would Crean’s pitch have been?

    “Hey Jordan — I know our two best players left for the NBA and everyone else on the team is either suspended or has already transferred, but will you stay here and play with a bunch of walk-ons and warm bodies? Pllllleaaaaase??”

    And who says he didn’t try? If I were Crawford, I’d go elsewhere regardless simply to get a fresh start. The last month of that season couldn’t have been enjoyable for anyone involved.

  92. Casey now I am completely sure you lost it. Here’s proof that Jordan Crawford intended to stay at Indiana, even as his teammates left, one by one. And you’re asking for Crean’s pitch and you’re tellin me that you would have left too if you had been in his place? but Crawford didn’t want to leave! He wanted to stay… You’re insane, man, you’re absolutely completely insane.

  93. Things went probably something like this:

    Crawford: Coach, I know everybody left, but I would like to stay.

    Crean: I hear you, Jordan, there’s only one big problem. I don’t know how I can convince you to stay.

    Crawford: Coach, I already want to stay.

    Crean: It’s because I have no damn pitch.

    Crawford: Coach!?…

    Crean: Besides, have you asked yourself Jordan: what would Casey do?

    Crawford: Who’s Casey?

    Crean: Nevermind that… you’re probably right… you’re much better off somewhere else. Damn, I can’t believe it: I have no pitch!

    Arnett: Coach, I can pitch!

  94. It was easy for Jordan to throw that sentiment onto the Crean fire once he was in a new uniform. Run the damn steps and stay…Grow a pair, you pantywaist.
    As it was easy for Gordon to piss on many his former Hoosier teammates for a reporter looking to write a cheap story…Same people that threw Gordon under the bus for one bad game with a broken wrist now willing to forgive him for simply being the best player in the league..Big paychecks now available to give big credence to all the horrible activities he somehow witnessed while never hanging with the despicable clan that added to a season in ruins.

    The people with class suck it up, tuck their rocks back in their jocks, and move on.

  95. Don’t waste your time debating Casey. He loves to leave himself ample wiggle room. He wasn’t a Davis fan but he wasn’t anti-Davis either. He liked Sampson untill he got caught doing what he’d always done in the past. He’s not sold on Crean but doesn’t think anyone should criticize him to harshly. He thinks Crean has made mistakes and questions his ability to coach yet thinks we should give him 10 years to figure it out because after all thats only fair and the job is sooo hard! He always just barely agrees or disagrees with what your saying. I think his real name must be Obama.

    Crean knew what he was getting into. He didn’t keep a single player except Taber. This gives him time to “rebuild” and play the expectations game. Crean can clap and yell Indiana as loud as anyone and I appreciate the enthusiasm I really do it must be hard but if we don’t at least get to the NIT next year Casey will be on here posting about how he was never really sold on Crean.

  96. Wa wa wa…Poor mistreated Jordan..Heaven forbid he may have been forced to run a few steps. And you people are criticizing Crean for running him off? Here’s the kind of crap that runs people off. Where’s this picture in Cook Hall!

    The only reason I dislike Crean is because he keeps kissing up to the Knight apologists…the same crowd that want to fry his a$$!

  97. Something else I would like to get off my chest..Some fifty-year-old former Hoosier has no business at an opening ceremony for Cook Hall when he let his son attend North Carolina. I’d like to run every Knight-loving balding blowhard that tore-up tickets, or encouraged their kids to stab IU in the back, off the campus for longer than days Knight shall ever return. Makes me sick and regretful I once cheered their names.

    The colors always first….ALWAYS. Get behind the Hoosiers under Tom Crean or board the bus.

  98. Casey is done. Now we have to deal with this nameless faceless turd. Go away you idiot. You’re drunk again… “for longer than days Knight shall ever return.” Sheesh… Dumb and dumber. Piss and Casey.

  99. Wiki,

    First of all — here’s the quote, in context:

    “Jordan Crawford intended to stay at Indiana, even as his teammates left, one by one. “Armon (Bassett), Jamarcus (Ellis), DeAndre (Thomas),” he said. Crawford said he knew it was time to leave when he saw one of the last Hoosiers holdovers, Brandon McGee, running stadium steps in the rain, as punishment for being late to study hall.”

    And now, for fun, here’s a quote from 4guards, on May 12, 2010, in response to this text:

    “so he doesn’t belong here. He is weak and I commend Tom for running him off.”

    Even 4guards, the Father of the Hate Crean Doctrine, is glad Tom didn’t retain him. And honestly, thanks for showing me that. Now I’m glad, too. I don’t want a player on my team who transfers because he’s scared of doing physical activity. Good riddance.

    You and others knock me for “sticking up” for Crean in the midst of a low point in our history, but I’d rather be in that category than the one you fall under.

    You’re the kind of fan who wants things done the right way…until it affects winning or slows the rebuilding process. You want Indiana to be restored to its original form, as a model for how a program should be run — but only if it’s convenient. I guess you would’ve been happier had Crean only made examples of the bench players and lesser talented guys. “You’d better adhere to the Indiana Way — unless you’re talented, then do whatever the hell you want.”

    We already had a coach like that. Didn’t work out so well…

    And JB — you’re laughable. You really are. You call out everyone around you who disagrees with your opinions, show no open mindedness whatsoever, and have no interest in having an actual conversation, and then you come on here and criticize the way I interact with people. Hilarious.

    I’m going to start interacting with the people on this site that actually want to discuss basketball, instead of those who simply want to blanket everyone with negativity or make personal attacks.

    Let’s meet back up on here in several months and see how things are going. Ya know — after we actually…play a few games this season. Cheers.

  100. “for longer than days Knight shall ever return.”

    I thought it made perfectly good sense..I’ve only had two cans of Bud…They were the tall cans and I can’t chug like the old days. I’d could drink ten and still find great joy in kicking your silly worthless a$$ in a game of Chinese checkers.
    Name-calling on a blog makes you a real big man. You’re probably one of those munchkins that drives a pick-up truck with dark tinted windows and hangs out at tanning booths all day. Nothin’ but a yellowbelly two shades of orange deeper than Crean..Most of us grow out of our toilet-training undershorts and learn to not call people “idiots” and “faceless turds”. At least those of us that didn’t have trailer-trash mommas on limited Pampers budgets that made their babies tiptoe around in their own feces all day.

    Flexing your big fat hillbilly brain on a Hoosier sports blog? No amount of drunkenness could cure
    anything that anal.

  101. Wicked Pea:

    I called you a faceless nameless turd but I have to tell you that “Words are like manure; even though to you they may stink, when mixed in the rich soil of an open mind and heart, a more beautiful flower may nourish and grow.” So think about what I said and a beautiful flower will come out of your head (perhaps through your ears?) very soon. Also I can beat you at Chinese checkers at your convenience.

    Casey,

    You’re laughable. You said Jordan wanted to go and Crean couldn’t keep him. But as I showed you Jordan wanted to stay and Crean didn’t want to keep him. I don’t care what 4guards thinks or says. Your statements were false and you don’t have the guts or the sanity to admit it.

    Clarion,

    You’re even more laughable. Thank you for being such a reliable comedian. You brighten this blog.

  102. Who needs cartoons when we have Downing, Casey and Clarion on this blog? Downing with his frequent and seemingly painful flashbacks of his Pampers deprived childhood in Gary IN — where the economic boom of the 1880s left a big hole behind on the bottom of which his family still lives in a run-down trailer. And Casey who has now stooped to quoting 4guards in support of his arguments, thus licking vigorously where he previously spat.

    D-5 pea brain, listen closely and I will tell you why your idiocy astounds me: you are telling us to get behind Tom Crean and the young men in Hoosier uniform. Either that or board the bus. Jordan Crawford was a young man in Hoosier uniform who played his heart out for us (I still remember a wicked screen by Krabbenhoft that floored Jordan in Madison. Later that game Gordon ran into him and had trouble breathing a few minutes after that…) And Jordan Crawford was discarded and discharged by Tom Crean like a used sock. But Jordan waited a year of his young life on the sidelines and then played his heart out again but for Xavier. Meanwhile your “wiener” coach Tom Crean turned the Hoosiers into the slapdash willie wankers of the Big Ten.

    Stop telling me what to write and what not to write. I support today’s players like I supported yesterday’s players and tomorrow’s players always. None of them is a mimosa pudica. They should just tuck their rocks back in their jocks (as you say) and move on if what I write is offending them — and bring us a winning season. Either that or they’re better off running up the stairs, like Brandon McGee, or off to another school like Crawford.

    And you may now start flexing your oris and risoris muscles at random to make it look like you still have something relevant to say.

  103. You’re all entitled to your opinions. That’s the whole point of our conversing.

    But those who choose not to convey those opinions in any sort of respectful and/or coherent manner shouldn’t expect to be taken too seriously, and shouldn’t be surprised when other posters go on the defensive. Sometimes I forget this is even a basketball blog.

    I think most would agree that I’m not the problem with this blog. I’ve only ever been interested in discussing IU basketball. More times than not, though, it just turns into one giant pissing contest.

  104. Is that how 4guards landed your affections? He just used his puerile tongue to send love turds to your open and fully fertile mind? And what a beautiful mind blossomed! But those aren’t flowers! What? I’ll be damn…4guards grew a couple ears of corn so he could have handlebars.

    I don’t want to imply he’s using you, but have you seen his backyard?

  105. wiki-

    Going after me pretty hard there, my friend. I’m proud to have a loving father. I wish I could be more like him. He worked his ass of every day of his existence. He never found a need to flex muscles. He never found a need to mistreat people with hateful words. I’ll honor his way today.

  106. 4 guards YOU ARE WRONG! You say Crean “had many players”. That is laughable. Are you counting the 2 who were kicked off the team? Or the 2 who never went to class? Or the 3 who decided to leave rather than have team discipline? As for your point on Elston, as we all know (Eric Gordon), verbal commitments mean nothing. Who was the coach when the player signed the NLOI? Now you see the light? As to the class of 2010-we will both get the pleasure of seeing them play on the court. I like my chances. I do NOT see Zeller and/or Davis as litmus tests for Coach Crean’s recruiting. I will be happy with Etherington and Aaron Thomas ( each of whom really wants to play at IU) in 2011 and Jurkin, Panera, Patterson, DSR and Yogi in 2012. If either or both Zeller and Davis really WANT to play at IU, that would be GREAT! I think that we are getting to the point in our program and recruiting where we have some criteria before we sign kids: 1) very good players, 2) very good character and work ethic in class and on the court, 3) really want to play at IU because “it is INDIANA”! I can live with these type of players, I can root for these types of teams, even when you can not find enough rating stars!

  107. BeatPurdue,
    Aaron Thomas? He doesn’t even hold an IU offer. He just goes around lying about it.
    Also if work ethic on and off the court is your main criteria, then not sure why you want Thomas.
    Teague may be back in play soon depending on what happens with Calipari. I would like a class of Zeller, Teague, and Davis. Too bad we don’t have any scholarships left.

  108. 4guards,

    Not that I think he should be our No. 1 priority, but isn’t Aaron Thomas’ steady improvement a reflection of his work ethic?

  109. We’ll like AT in an IU uniform anytime. Teague has made his bed now he can lay in it. No reason for IU to bail him out of his poor decision. If Zeller and Davis don’t pull the trigger soon they too will be sleeping in a zip code not identified with Bloomington. The idea is to get kids who want to be IU not players who want their name on the back of their game jersey.

  110. The footage I have seen on Thomas, he has been extremely lazy on the court. No hustle at all. Off the court, his grades are a major concern.
    Thomas would not be a complete miss like the entire 2010 class, as he is talented but there are many people I would rather have in the 2011 class.
    Zeller, Davis, McGary, or Gant. Not to mention the ones we don’t have much of a shot at such as Dawson, Plumlee, Chandler, and Teague (depending on Calipari).

  111. Let me see, who has the best information: Aaron Thomas’ AAU Coach, or his high school coach, or a negative poster who has watched “footage”? The first two say he is a great kid AND a very hard worker. I rest my case. The reason I really like Thomas, apart from his terrific offensive skills, is that even without an IU offer, he keeps stating publicly that he wants to play at IU! He has NEVER said that he had an IU offer! He has said he would commit if he got one! I have seen Teague play, and I thought that he was “moody”. He did not play hard except in spurts. Maybe I saw him on an off day. I think that he belongs at KY, and I do not think that he will start as a freshman. Any of these players who really want to play at IU, and whom the coaches really want to play at IU, will have scholarships. That is a given.

  112. You may want to get your facts straight. He HAS falsely claimed an IU offer.
    Teague won’t start? Wow, Give this guy some more Kool-Aid.

  113. I am to the point where if Teague wanted to come to IU right now…screw him! Crean worked his a$$ off to get the kid!

  114. Teague very well may be the best player in the country (#2 according to Rivals) and you are saying if he wanted to come here, screw him?
    I sometimes think you Crean Apologists enjoy being the laughing stock of the Big 10.

  115. I still have heard no one apologize for Coach Crean, but like I said earlier, Teague has made his bed and he can lay in it. He did not have IU as his destination originally, so as JPat said “screw him” and I concur completely.

  116. Why weren’t you saying screw Negedu a couple months ago? He made his bed with TN and did not have IU as his destination originally. What is the difference? Were you saying screw Gordon?

  117. He wasn’t from Indiana, he did not commit to pUKe, different timeline and very different set of circumstances developed to consider him. Different circumstances for EG’s move also. Open your eyes. Just because there are no stats for you to cherry pick doesn’t mean you can’t try to think through these individual circumstances. You still have not provided us with one apology posted for Coach Crean.

  118. Negedu was not cleared by the IU admin. Teague was recruited harder and longer than any kid Crean has worked on. He is an Indiana kid and he ends up in Kentucky. It is clear to me that he only cared who would boost him to the NBA after one year. I wish him luck but he turned his back on IU so as I said…screw him. With that said, if he came here I could learn to love him but he would have to show some class and bust his a$$…

  119. JPat, Negedu was fine to go to IU first time around. He turned his back on IU. After he nearly died and TN wouldn’t let him play, he came crawling back and Crean came with open arms.

  120. Any 2 kids you look at are going to be different situations. What is your point? You are just making excuses.

  121. yeah, I know. I am not going to go round and round. You can have the last word.

    In the easiest terms I know: I don’t want Teauge at IU!!!

    Just my opinion…

    if you need anything else on this, read my last post!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  122. 4 guards you have zero credibility! Give me the source (in writing or a link to audio or video) for your misrepresentation about what Aaron Thomas has claimed about an offer from IU so that I can read it for myself. If your facts are there, I will be the FIRST to admit my error and apologize. Without the source for me to read, then I can rest comfortably that you made it up and that you are WRONG! Will you do the same?

  123. The latest being a video interview from the May Classic that was posted on Insidethehall. Pretty easy for you to find. If I was wrong about this , I would have 15 Crean Apologists jumping in the convo. That should be all you need right there.
    Now admit your error and apologize if you are the man you claim.

  124. I just got a chance to do the research, thanks for letting me know where to look, there is video both on ITH and on the HT, the same interview from 5/15 Adidas May Classic. 4 guards, you were RIGHT, I was WRONG. Aaron Thomas does state on the video that he has an IU scholarship offer. He says he has offers from DePaul, Xavier, Cincinnati, “and uh Indiana”. I apologize! If you would give your sources for information so I could check it out, I promise I will check it out before I post. Thanks.

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