27 comments

  1. Very envious of you guys. You have the best job in the world. I was always without direction my younger years. Two upwardly mobile handsome gents gaining more and more notoriety and respect in their sports journalism professions….You’re like future rock stars. Probably can date any babe you want..My life sucks.

  2. You guys are off your rockers if you think that Jordan Hulls is ‘playing power forward’. Have you ever heard of a 3 guard lineup? This isn’t 6th grade basketball where each kid has a 1,2,3,4,5 position if you can play you can play. No where does that mean that Hulls is a power forward. Just because you guys have labeled positions to players doesn’t mean that’s how it plays out, its basketball, you can use whatever lineup you want. You could start 5 PGs if you wanted to and it doesn’t mean that one would be a center. At this point if you were going to say something like that it’d be safer to say the Hoosiers don’t have a center, they start 3 guards and 2 forwards.

  3. Fab5,
    We’re not making that up. That comes straight from the mouths of Tom Crean and Jordan Hulls. Now, obviously it’s not that simple. Hulls isn’t doing a lot of things power forwards would do. But in the offense, in set plays when there are assignments for 1-5, he gets the assignment of the 4 man. I’m working on a story right now that will explain this better.

  4. DD, Yeah I just think the way you guys made it sound is really hard to justify on any terms, Jordan Hulls isn’t playing power forward. If he is running baseline, crashing for boards, playing off the ball, all that, still doesn’t mean he is playing PF. But I’m also someone who isn’t so sure that Watford is a legit 3 yet, I think he is slightly too slow to be a real ‘3’ I understand thats what he wants to be and I get that the coaches are giving him a chance at that position because he didn’t have the mentality to play the 4. But I’ll be shocked if he is ever in the NBA as a contributor at the 3. They should play where they are needed in college, and IU needs a 4, Watford should play the 4, and that’ll become much easier to see in BigTen play, they’ll have guys who can guard him out there on the wings. He won’t average 19ppg in the big10 as a 3, he is shooting 26% from 3, that is a bad % from a college 3pt line.

  5. Understand what you’re saying Dustin, but rather than concentrate on our positional deficincies with regard to your technical expertise of defining what spot on the floor a player may be interchangeably be filling in for during certain rotations/stretches in the game, maybe you guys could emphasize just how much stronger Hull’s game is this year. He just looks all-around faster…he’s pushing the ball up court and initiating advantages before opposing defenses get back…his shooting has been lights out…his release on his jumper is even quicker than last year..he secures the ball and takes charge the offense…he hits his free throws. I heard an announcer state on ESPNU that Crean recently said he’s a “born point guard” with “natural” talent at shooting the ball and playing the position.

    It does appear you guys at Scoop are somewhat needlessly focusing/centering more on a technical aspect his sometimes playing the role of a forward rather than how much his game has improved, his versatility, and his growing importance to keep on the floor for as many minutes a game as possible. There were a lot of doubters if Jordan had the size, quickness, and strength to play Big 10 ball. I think he’s put them to rest. Glory, guts, game, and gumption written all over his grumpy face. I don’t care if he has to guard Terrence Jones next week, he’s for real.

  6. D5 how has playing this schedule ‘put to rest’ the doubters that Hulls can play with the talented Big10 teams? I like Hulls but he is a role player/fan favorite on any good team in America. Because of IU’s current strife he is a starter. However he might have the head for playing PG he doesn’t have the physical attributes(if he did he’d be the proven starter at PG and play 30+ mins there), Crean could use him there if he ran a more traditional offense but with Crean’s dribble/drive/kick offense your PG must be able to get past his defender, that is why we use Verdell. We won’t know a lot about Crean until he finally gets a PG who is elite, hopefully Yogi can answer some questions.

  7. You’ll be proven wrong. Hulls game has elevated. In any event, we’ll soon see once the Big 10 season rolls around in a couple weeks. Jones is turnover prone(although I do love how he always dips his head at the top of the circle like he wants to take on every defender one-on-one) and doesn’t appear to make as good of decisions with the ball as Hulls in the open court. We don’t get anywhere without Jordy running the show this year. I haven’t seen Yogi play. Don’t see any point in talking about teams down the road.

  8. D-5 how will I be proven wrong? Will Hulls become an all bigten performer and lead IU to the top of the league averaging 15ppg and 5 assists? I didn’t say Hulls was bad or shouldn’t be playing. I said he doesn’t have what it takes to get IU over the hump. That isn’t a knock on him, actually of all the IU players he is probably getting the most out of everything he has, and thats all you can ask for. But to think he is a proven Big10 PG that other coaches would covet, is a big jump then just saying he has improved from last year. I like Hulls and wish him well but I don’t see him being able to play with anyone’s best except maybe Iowa’s. And your comment about us “not getting anywhere without Jordy” what do you mean exactly…how many wins do you see Jordy leading us to? Do you really think IU isn’t at 7-1 without Hulls? They are 7-1 because of who they’ve played.

  9. I realize we’ve played very weak teams, but I just feel he’s playing with way more confidence. Most game I’ve watched he’s receiving tremendous praise from announcers/color commentators with far more expertise the game than I’ll assume to have. We had ample number of cupcakes on the schedule last year and he didn’t look nearly as good. The best point guard in the country doesn’t necessarily get IU “over the hump” with a less than 70% Creek and the strength we currently have in the blocks this year. Give Jordy the front line of OSU, MSU, Duke, etc..I think he’d shine even more. He’s a leader and the most irreplaceable component this team. Of course, at the end of the day, it’s just my opinion you may or may not choose to share our new power forward.

  10. Stats from official site for IU Basketball:

    Hulls 29 minutes per game
    Jones 26 minutes per game

    Hulls has 13 turnovers on the season
    Jones 38 turnovers on the season

    Hulls has drained 59% his 3-point shots
    Jones has converted 27% from behind the arc.

    Do I need stat more?

  11. I like your optimism, there is no argument about whether or not Hulls is a good player for IU, that is a clear yes. That doesn’t mean ‘he’s arrived and has put to rest the arguments of doubters.’ Most doubters that I’ve heard have said “Hulls is not a legit D1 PG.” Comparing Hulls to Verdell holds no water in that argument of whether or not Hulls is considered a good PG, to use your argument if you compared Pritchard to Capo or whatever and Pritchard looks like our best option, that is fine. It doesn’t mean Pritchard is a legit Big10 player and someone who ‘has arrived.’ Hulls might be the best we have but it doesn’t mean he is even close to a top PG on a national scale. He doesn’t get on the floor for most Big10 teams…period. Against the 3 teams we’ve played who most people consider some what respectable(BC,Evansv,WrSt) Hulls has a total of 14 pts and was held without a field goal in 2 of those games. So he averaged 4.6 pts in 32 mins against those teams. Throw in 3 assists per game. He also shot 29% in those 3 games…I don’t think we’ve seen enough yet to say he is so much better than Verdell. Against those same 3 teams Jones averaged: 19ppg, 3 assists per game

  12. Jones has also tossed up twice as many shots to earn that whopping 4 more points per game average than Hulls. I’d say the triple amount of turnovers doesn’t say much for VJ playing point. 38 turnovers is almost mind-boggling against such weak opponents. If Jones can’t protect the ball against cupcake defenders on barely Division 1 teams, what happens against Big 10 teams? It was you that mentioned our weak opponents…True? Hulls made some fabulous dribble-drive moves against BC(didn’t you hear Verne Lundquist’s going nuts?) and played a strong floor game(2 turnovers in 33 minutes). Did BC have exceptionally crappy guards?

    I have way more confidence in Hulls leading this team from the point guard position. There will always be doubters. I’m not in their/your camp. Glory, guts, game, and gumption….you know the rest.

  13. read it again D5, Hulls scored 14 pts TOTAL in those 3 games, not hitting any field goals in two of the games: he averaged 4.6 points per game in those 3 games. Jones AVERAGED 19 pts against those same 3 opponents. How can you use the BC game for your argument, IU was outplayed nearly the entire game and lost by double digits. Is that what you have in mind for the big ten season too? Your confidence in Hulls is fine, you probably were a fan of his HS career, sadly that doesn’t translate to the D1 level, your confidence in him won’t give him 3 more inches or a quicker first step. Its hard for ‘purists’ too admit but athletes do win out in D1, there is more to it then just all those G words you used in your last sentence. Athleticism is vital and Hulls is on the lowest level in that regard. If you like Hulls’ game you’d be a huge fan of the NAIA, and that isn’t a slight towards anyone.

  14. Fab5, D5,
    Niether one of you is wrong. I think VJ’s size and ability to create his shot more is why the numbers are the way they are.(w/high TO’s) Hulls ability to play different positions well is his contribution. Plus, I don’t think I’ve seen a better “nice play” passer than Hulls in a while. He makes some sweet passes. If Hulls could score over the top or with pull up jumpers at the point of attack against tough guards he would be really tough. That is what Jones can do. I am glad they are Hoosiers.

  15. Mass.Hoosier I think you hit the nail on the head. Hulls would be extremely tough if he could create his own shot and penetrate. I like Jones’s tenacity, but not his turnovers. If he can get his head on straight and control the ball, we would be alot better. All in all the team has made good progress. I would have liked to see them play more road games though. I think that will hurt them down the road. Hopefully they can put up a good showing at Kentucky. They will need to play better defense than they did against BC. Go Hoosiers!

  16. On the contrary, I love super-athletic kids..Huge fan of Eric Gordon. I love VO’s athleticism. Sheehey is surprising many with his hops..We need more athletes. I hear more are on the way. By the way, are we currently at the quality a Kentucky or MSU roster at our other positions besides point guard? Why the hell we just pickin’ on Hulls? What happened to bashing the names like Prithard, Capo, or many the other guys on our roster that will never see an NBA minute in their lifetimes?
    I’m not sure what a “purist” is, but I believe Butler came within an eyelash an NCAA championship banner without a team full of John Walls in their lineup. Some were talking like Hayward was the next “Larry Legend” from tiny town in Indiana…Doesn’t appear he was ready for the NBA(though I don’t doubt he’s loving the huge monthly deposit into his bank account). He’s riding a lot of pine at Utah.

    Back to Hulls: I was one of those doubters when Hulls was recruited. I believed all the hoopla was because he was a local kid. I was wrong. I repeat…I was wrong. I dare say some will ever admit the same that were throwing him under the bus last year. In my novice opinion, he has improved immensely.

    Against BC the entire team showed a lot of heart getting back into the game..Did you watch the game? Very inaccurate for you to claim IU was “outplayed” the entire game. Indiana outplayed BC most the second half. BC couldn’t miss beyond the arc..Sometimes you have nights like that. There were a couple dagger 3-point shots by a freshman on BC that were back-breakers.

    I believe we have a very good point guard in Hulls. From a physical standpoint he won’t always match up, but in heart and smarts he’s the guy I want with the ball in tight games. He’s the guy I want on the free throw line when we’re trying to hold onto a slim margin and the other team is intentionally fouling on the inbound. Did I ever say he’s the next Steve Nash? I don’t think so. He’ll never play the game beyond college, but he’s the kid that I would vote most likely to play the biggest game of his life when a banner is on the line.

    Lastly, I don’t care if we were playing the Boston Celtics eight games in a row, 38 turnovers from one player is mind-boggling. You can throw me whatever scoring stats you want from whatever three games you choose. Jones likely accounted for as many points giving the ball to the opponent(I think it’s called points off turnovers) than anything he put on the scoreboard as a result the ball going through our net after leaving his hands.

  17. oops..

    “I don’t care if we [we’re] playing the Boston Celtics eight games in a row, 38 turnovers from one player is mind-boggling.”

    Did I say I’m also a huge fan of Elston? Numbers still aren’t there, but I really like the kid.

  18. D5 you started off this whole thing by bashing Verdell, even though if you watch the Hoosiers play you can tell he needs to be on the floor, turnovers are completely overrated, a lot of coaches say that too. Have his turnovers cost them games? Is he turning it over at the end of close games? Do you not trust him with the ball? No. Verdell has won IU a handful of games in his career, he is a player. Sure he turns it over, a turnover is a lost possession, just like a missed shot or a missed rebound is a lost possession, it doesn’t mean a player is a detriment. But Verdell makes things happen and he is aggressive, he’s also not afraid of anyone and he trusts himself. Those 2 attributes would make Hulls even better, if he played with Verdell’s confidence. Also again in those 3 games we have talked about, sure Hulls didn’t turn it over as often as Jones but he also scored like 45 less total points. So it is a combo of both. But you also said that “Hulls has proved his doubters wrong” and I just don’t see where you are getting that, this schedule has proven nothing. And in the 3 games that weren’t against laughable opponents Hulls didn’t play well. Again I like Hulls and I think he gets the most out of his abilities but that doesn’t mean he is a top flight Big10 PG. If Hulls is playing great and IU is winning games once the Big10 starts that’ll be a different story.

  19. “You started it…” Sounds like 3rd graders fighting in the restroom. Maybe I did start it. I’m sorry if I started something. I’ll make sure to let everyone else start things from here on out. Happy?

    We’ll see how it works out. VJ is a slippery dude that does seem to find ways to score. I think a lot of his problem on turnovers occurs when he tries to split the double team too often to draw the foul. He has one-on-one syndrome.

    Let’s also remember Jones has an extra year of playing time under his belt. Personally, I don’t see a lot of growth in his game from two years ago..On the other hand(as I said above), I believe Hulls just looks a hell of a lot better this year than last…especially his 3-point shooting. At the end of the day(or at 2:00am this Monday morning), I still like Hulls running the show. Though we may differ on who we believe should be playing the majority of minutes at point guard, I still respect your opinion even though you’re wrong.

    Still think you got a little jumpy up there with Dustin and Hugh and the “off their rockers” comment. Maybe you could be a little more tactful and not so frantic like Jones with a basketball. Lighten up. This aint the Bay of Pigs..We’re just chatting hoops.

    How ’bout them Monsters of the Midway? Five wins in a row. YES! DA BEARS!

    nighty-night

  20. after reading all of this and being objective..I got the impression that Hulls was being hated on a little. Hulls is still young but he is doing fine at the point right now, just fine. You are fooling yourself if you don’t think he would start point for many and I mean many D1 schools! Take it easy guys and let’s all get along!

  21. JPat-

    I’m not sure if Hulls was being “hated on a little” by Fab5. I think he just has his doubts Hulls is any better option than Jones. You can go up and down our roster and not find one name that can take over the game individually. Creek is looking better, though I think we’re kidding ourselves if we think he’s anywhere near 100%. Watford has also had great stretches, but this team must truly play as a cohesive unit to have success. I’ve just been very impressed with Hulls tenacity. In see a level of all-around improvement beyond what I expected. Does he not look quicker this year too? We all understand Hulls is never going to be Isiah Thomas. Put a point guard like Isiah on this team and a post player that could give us a double-double on occasion and we’re likely making a decent tournament run now. We have really nice depth, a bit more athleticism, and a lot more options to find scoring this year…We just don’t have that unstoppable force(at guard or in the boxes)that many teams rely on to carry them through the highs and lows a game/season. It’s been the story the last decade..Just one or two pieces missing to get us in the true hunt. The future classes will help.

  22. I’ve got no problem with D5 and I probably agree with him more than you’d think. I hope for the best for Hulls and I’m glad he’s a Hoosier, I just think its too early to tell yet if he really is ‘good’. However he is one of the best we have so he’ll get chances. Hopefully he can knock down his open shots. Again like I’ve said, I like Hulls. My main argument was simple: people bash Crean for giving the ball to Verdell, but there is obviously a reason why Verdell has been the PG and Hulls has played off the ball. In fact in his 1.5 years here Hulls has been given every opportunity to be the leading force at PG and Crean just hasn’t seen enough to give him those reigns. If you don’t believe me watch the games, Hulls doesn’t play the point that often. As far as people who are hard on Verdell, admittingly he is my favorite player, and here is why: when Jones came in he wasn’t near as good as he now is, he is a self made player. He could’ve easily been like every other member of that class and either lost his spot in the rotation or transferred, Pritchard(by default more than his own play) has kept his spot also. But Roth,Williams,Story etc are forgotten names from that class. Jones has become a legit guard who can score in bunches and has been proven to be clutch. Also I agree that Jones doesn’t seem to always trust his teammates, I think that is why he rode the bench for a portion of the BC game, but that explanation is simple: His first year here Jones had no one to trust, Story/Williams/Dumes were not trustworthy teammates with the ball or a shot. Last year in Jones’ second year he was surrounded by freshman who were clearly in over their heads. This year is the first year with guys like Hulls, Creek, Watford, VO that Jones can/should start trusting them more and more. It also seems like the people who want Hulls to be more aggressive are the ones who want Jones to be less so and I don’t see the good in that, Jones is an attacker let him attack, Hulls needs to be more like Jones, he needs to be more aggressive, Crean says that all the time too. Hopefully the back court trio of Hulls/Creek/Jones can get the job done in the Big 10 this year, if IU again wins 3-4 games I don’t think we can look at them as ‘having arrived’ if they win 8-9 it’d be great, I agree with Dopirak/Hugh that this schedule did nothing to help us see who IU really really is yet.

  23. Da Bears certainly looking formidable. Forte was explosive yesterday, and Cutler made good decisions. The guy could have thrown it to Olsen a few more times, though, to help my fantasy team.

  24. Don just said that against top teams later this year, the most important player on the court will be Jordan Hulls, with or without the ball in his hands.

  25. I’d agree, love to see Hulls shine. Against Evansville and Wright State: no made field goals from Hulls. Against BC-9 pts. 1-7 from 3 in those 3 games. Against the other somewhat competent opponent we’ve faced: Ferris State: Hulls played a whooping 41mins and scored 6 pts. To all the Jordan Hulls fans out there: Hulls is clearly an important part, for those who believe he is the answer: wake up. I’ll go back to something I said at the beginning of the season, I’m from Indiana, love HS basketball in this state and I like Hulls. But Indiana fans give Hulls all the credit in the world because they wish/hope he’ll do well. If he was the exact same player from another state, say from FLA or GA- they would not give him all this praise and want him to be the starting PG, his game and numbers do not back it up. Hulls is likeable and an “Indiana” kid, but he isn’t the savior of IU basketball. Since people don’t seem to see that I am a fan of Hulls: I’ll say it again, I like Hulls and on this current IU team he is needed and does good things. But for people who argue past that, some say he is a proven D1 starting PG and what not…they are looking through flawed lenses.

  26. For a PG just like a QB their first responsibility is to take care of the ball and not beat himself. Hulls does that in spades with good shot selection, decision making, decent passing, has developed a scrappier attitude on D and the boards. As a Sophomore I’ll take him at the point and as a Junior and Senior I’ll want him even more on the court because he makes good decisions.

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