Wilson wants more leadership from seniors, more preparation from quarterbacks

October is National Breast Cancer Awareness Month and Kevin Wilson has too good of an idea what that means, having lost his mother to cancer over a year ago. His team will be wearing pink gloves and wristbands, towels and t-shirts in this week’s game, and Wilson is trying to tie that altogether in an inspirational message for his seniors as his team stumbles into conference play with a 1-3 record.

Wilson said he held a meeting with the seniors yesterday to make sure they understood that their careers are terminal.

“We talked about cancer awareness, breast cancer awareness and what not and people fighting fights,” Wilson said. “Your football life is terminal. My deal was, if you’ve got eight, nine, 10 weeks of your football life left, how would you like each Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday into Saturday to be? How would you want to walk off that field every day. Your attitude, your experience, your joy, the way you play?”

Wilson has noted his disappointment in the upperclassmen in several areas and said that is part of the reason why he’s played so many true freshmen already. Sixteen have already burned their redshirts.

“Old guys, they need to get a loving feeling in the way they’re going about their business,” Wilsons said. “Instead of going through the motions, because as they go through the motions, the young guy by evaluation is just as good as the old guy, I’ve got more value in playing the young guy. That’s not slamming the old guy, the old guy’s gotta earn his right. Every team is led by the seniors. Right now, we’re being led in a way that’s got us where we are. I’m challenging those guys, not pointing fingers, ‘let’s lead this team strong down the stretch and make these next 8-9-10 weeks of your football life getting ourselves in position to be a bowl team. Everything we want is still in front of us, so we can accomplish things that haven’t been accomplished here in quite a while.”

Wilson’s assistants also said that the leadership from the upperclassmen and the seniors needs to improve. Co-defensive coordinator Doug Mallory is sometimes starting six seniors on defense (depending on how the Hoosiers’ handle the linebacking corps) and he wants to see improvement in their leadership.

“It needs to continue to improve,” Mallory said. “It needs to continue to improve. I’ve always said that a coach-driven team can be a good team, but a player-driven team can be a great team. We haven’t got that yet. We’re continuing to try to develop it, but it’s not where it needs to be right now. We see flashes, we see signs of it, but it has to continue to develop.”

Senior Dre Muhammad said he sees the same problem, and it has a lot to do with the fact that many of the players who are in position to be leaders are not used to that role because they’ve been looking elsewhere for vocal leadership.

“I just think not a lot of lot of upperclassmen have been in positions to actually lead the team,” Muhammad said. “I think we’re still trying to figure out how to lead the team. I think a big part of it is just showing actions. If you show actions and you’re also contributing the team, that will take care of saying stuff and getting people to fall in line with you. … When I say position, I think you look at the past teams, you had the Ben Chappells, the Terrance Turners, the (Jammie) Kirlews. Those people were very vocal. When you come from a team like that, you don’t have to say too much. We just have to adjust to it being our time to lead and just doing what they did in the past and speaking up.”

As much as Wilson has been disappointed in the seniors, he’s also been disappointed in the position that is supposed to produce a leader regardless of class.

Wilson said there is no “controversy” at quarterback this week, but there is a competition. He reiterated on Tuesday that he didn’t think Wright-Baker played poorly, and he gave credit to backup Dusty Kiel for recognizing the two busted coverages that led to two easy touchdowns on Saturday. He said both will continue to be evaluated, though he doesn’t want Wright-Baker looking over his shoulder.

Wilson said the reason Kiel hasn’t won the job already and that Wright-Baker has been the starter is that Kiel had trouble taking care of the football in the preseason. He also pointed out that he was lucky not to be intercepted in the win over South Carolina State last week.

“He’s a little erratic and missed some throws,” Wilson said. “I don’t know if you realized it at South Carolina State, he hit a guy right on target, but he had the wrong colored jersey. Hit him right between the numbers. The reason he wasn’t starting is he didn’t take care of the ball. He was very lucky at South Carolina State, that would’ve been a huge play in that game. If there hadn’t been offsetting penalties, they would’ve had the ball on the 5-yard line. Dusty is a guy that has to keep working a lot too. … Dusty and Ed are both works in progress.”

He said, however, that neither has shown the willingness to prepare well enough to be a great quarterback. He can’t mandate that they spend more time watching film, he said, but he didn’t mind saying that former pupils like Sam Bradford and Northwestern star Zak Kustok were more dedicated to the practice than his current charges.

“I saw great examples of great quarterbacks and the time they put on task,” Wilson said. “I know Mr. (Don) Fischer back there hits a lot of golf balls. More than anyone else. He hits a bunch of balls. And he doesn’t have to. That’s a reason why he plays well. There’s some physical skill, but there’s a commitment. That’s where, when you’re balancing your academic load, your social life, when you play quarterback at the collegiate level, there’s a lot of stress. There’s a lot going on right now. Those young men have so much going on, it’s really hard to play quarterback … They have a lot on the plate. But the more you work, the less that’s on your plate. … My quarterback at Northwestern, he was in our office when he wasn’t in class. All the time. Last week, I saw one of our guys watching TV in the player lounge. I guess that’s OK, but he was 50 yards away from watching tape and seeing what the coverage was, seeing what their third down tendencies are.”

Other notes from the press conference:

— Wilson had an opening statement at a press conference for the first time and addressed several personnel issues.

Wilson said right tackle Josh Hager is out for the year and finished for his career after a knee injury. Instead of trying to pursue a medical redshirt and a sixth year, he will instead move on and graduate. Kicker Nick Freeland will have surgery this week and will also be out for the year. Linebacker Leon Beckum isn’t practicing yet, but he might return in 3-4 weeks.

Wilson said again that the injury that kept senior wide receiver Damarlo Belcher out of action on Saturday was a bone bruise in his knee. He didn’t practice on Wednesday or Thursday and did not travel. He was back in action on Monday, however. He said that sophomore Duwyce Wilson and Kofi Hughes are still battling some “nagging gigs where they’re limited in practice. They’re both still limited.” Wilson said its hopeful they will be able to play this week.

Wilson said there’s a possibility junior tailback Darius Willis will pursue a medical hardship, ending his career while allowing him to stay on scholarship and not counting against the scholarship limit of 85. “His career is basically over,” Wilson said.

Wilson again talked about Kevin Bush’s decision to leave the program, again saluting him for his service to the country. He said again that he tried to get Bush to stay and gave him opportunities, “but he just felt where he was in his life, he wanted to move on and get his education.”

Wilson said that tailback Xavier Whitaker and wide receiver Tim O’Connor, redshirt freshmen who were buried deep on the depth chart, “came in and said they don’t want to play football anymore, so they’re not on scholarship, they’re not on the team.”

— Wilson was asked if he regrets playing freshman quarterback Tre Roberson and burning his redshirt already. He rushed three times for 7 yards in his first four games at IU, and didn’t play on Saturday against North Texas.

“To me there’s still a lot to go and play,” Wilson said. “We’ll keep him coming. … His skill set, he’s skilled enough to do some things, but physically, can he help you in the perimeter? Is he a wildcat true running quarterback sometimes? … We do have a package we prepare each week for him. Unfortunately some of these games have been a little close.”

AUDIO: Kevin Wilson Part 2

AUDIO: Doug Mallory

AUDIO: Kevin Johns

AUDIO: Nicholas Sliger

AUDIO: Dre Muhammad

 

79 comments

  1. Honest feedback from the coach and players.
    I heard Houston Nutt speak once about his seniors, he said he didnt want to talk to under-classmen until they talked to the seniors on the team.

    The seniors should lead by example then talk. Not throwing in the towel yet!

  2. I am starting to realize a big difference in the state of the program. In the past we hoped the football team would win more than it lost and never really expected much in the way of details. They’d go their way, we’d go ours. Have a nice day.
    At Oklahoma the fans expected to be kept abreast of every detail, every little nuance of what was going on with the team or they might not put 80,000 butts in the stands every Saturday and write huge checks just to eat bar-b-que with the assistant coaches a couple times a year. I doubt that Coach Wilson has become the beneficiary of gratuitous donors yet but he sure as heck knows how it’s done. These little info sessions are how the big boys do it. I like it.

  3. This is the second time I’ve heard CW call out the QBs for not putting in enough film time. What’s it going to take for them to get the hint? If Keil or Roberson want more playing time, they should know what they need to do. I’ve never heard a good QB say they got that way by spending less time in the film room. Maybe it would help EWB with these coverages he keeps getting “bluffed” by.

  4. Yeah, I’m wondering if these guys need to get hit up side the head with a phone book to get a clue. He hasn’t been exactly subtle. As he said, he can’t ‘make’ them come in but, Holy Heisman Trophy winners, guys wake up.

  5. I remember my son, at 16, driving 400 miles, each way, to work with Dan Gable for 2 hours. Get in the frikkin film room.

  6. I believe winning is like muscle memory. I had lost some functions (like picking my leg up to go up a 3 inch step)and had to literally think through the sequence of movements to teach my muscle how to do basic functions again.

    IU football have almost lost the functions required to win. In many ways Coach Wilson is doing is taking on the role of the physical therapist trying to force movements and sequences of movements to reteach the function of winning.

    The fact that losing is now a part of their ‘memory’ is shown in the fact that any opponent will play the same unmotivated, ‘lame’ Hoosiers who may or may not require themselves to relearn the right motor habits. Perhaps, us fans as well.

    You have got to admire the challenge CKW and his staff have accepted. The players seem to be stuck in their own Groundhog Day.

  7. The script for this could only come from Hoosier Groundhog Day- it can not get better,

    Director-Harold Ramis
    Script Writer Danny Rubin
    Author Paul Hannam

    Commentary and reporting- Dustin Dopirak- The Bloomington HeraldTimes, Bloomington, Indiana

    (Setting- Following a 24-21 loss to North Texas State University, Denton, Texas- a Div. 2 opponent)

    I.U. senior safety Jarrell Drane- “I don’t know if it was the dryness of the air or what. We just didn’t play inspired football.”

    “I felt like we thought they were just gonna roll over,” IU junior defensive tackle Mick Mentzer

    Then they scored, then they scored again, and everybody’s like, ‘What the hell’s happening? Hoosier defensive lineman Mentzer

    [Overconfidence] I’m not saying we just thought it was gonna happen, but you just relax a little bit.” – IU defensive line coach Mark Hagen, on playing NTSU

    They clearly understood the situation once they had their pride challenged at halftime (halftime score NTSU 21- Indiana 0)- commentary, Dustin Dopirak

    [general tone of IU defense] “…a level of timidity”, Dustin Dopirak, Bloomington Heral Times on Hoosier response to NTSU …well…playing football and using [unexpected] tactics.

    “We’re thinking too much.. I bet if you asked every guy on defense, he would echo that,” Hoosier defensive line coach Coach Mark Hagen, ” That’s what I see.”

    “There are certain things the defensive coaching staff has already done to make their defenders think less and attack more”. Coach Hagen. (Oh, thank God!)

    “I think all the D-tackles feel a lot more comfortable with it for sure,” Mentzer said. “It’s where we started out at (four losing season ago). It worked on Saturday, (Darn straight!!!)

    Closing scene- (As IU players watch post game video)- the Hoosiers said, they can see a level of overconfidence, and then a failure to properly adjust once it became apparent that they would have a battle if not a whipping on their hands)- Dustin Dopirak, sports writer, Bloomington HeraldTimes on the IU loss to to NTSU

    (The blades of glass bend and the wind stirs hazy dust curtains . The sun slowly but steadily sets to the west of the lonely Texas plain; suddenly a ball of weeds blows across the screen…but slowly darkness envelops the horizon…the shape of a coyote and the sound of his lament cry out…CUT!!!!)

  8. man, on the national and local message boards…there are some interesting rumors about Wilson, Belcher, Bush, Willis and much other news on IU football. For the sake of Tsao and some others I will not post one thing but it is out there. It certainly does not look good right now. As bad as Lynch got dogged on by me and many others…you never read a bad rumor or heard anything bad about Lynch and staff behind closed doors.

  9. “Following a 24-21 loss to North Texas State University, Denton, Texas- a Div. 2 opponent”

    Not only is North Texas NOT a Division 2 team, they aren’t even an FCS (formerly 1AA) team. They are a Football Bowl Series team just like us. Good grief, they played Alabama a couple weeks ago.

    JPat, I just read on a message board where Nick Saban was taking over for Pete Carroll in Seattle. Thank you for not posting that idiocy.

  10. I don’t know if it is the regime change with CKW & staff or what, but I am really enjoying the comments a lot more than in past years. Gone are the BS apologist for Lynch and his failures. The quality of comments show an increased knowledge of the game and real discussion as to the state of the program and the future without having to argue about rather or not the coach has a damn clue as to what is going on.

    That said, I’m fully behind CKW and his staff and what they are trying to accomplish. When there is a culture created in a program, one that Indiana has had for far too long, there has to be an overhaul of how things are done. CKW & staff seem to have no issues with changing that culture and playing kids who have bought into what they want to accomplish. Upper classmen should step up and be the vocal leaders of any team, but understand that with a new coach, new system and new expectation that they’re time and experience doesn’t mean jack. The only advantage a 5th year senior has over a true freshman this season is being here for spring practice. I think they’re getting that message and I hope that Wilson’s message of their football life is slowly dying over these next 8-10 weeks hits home and sparks them to become the best players they can be through the B1G season.
    I think this team can compete, once the learn how to compete.

  11. J Pat,

    Same stuff going on at BHSS, new coach, new way of doing things, kids who couldn’t handle it and caused waves or quit. You’ll always have that, but I’d rather have a hard nose caoch like Wilson that keeps himself, his coaches and his player accountable to everyone than what we had in Lynch.

  12. Stop by, I haven’t been getting inside till about 15 minutes till kick off. But I’m still over in that section, might try and move next year. Not sure yet.

  13. JPat, that wasn’t meant as a slam at you. I think Mike P. really put his finger on it. Coach is upsetting the apple cart. These guys were able to stay in their comfort zone with BL and now they are being challenged constantly. Frankly, I don’t give a rat’s rear end about guys leaving the program.
    When I was in Aviation Officers’ Candidate School in Pensacola you could quit at any time. In fact, of the 48 guys in my class, we lost 20 in the first week. We finished with 18. One guy, Manny, was two weeks from graduating when he said he was going to DOR (drop on request). Most of the guys were trying to talk him out of it. Our ‘leader by example’, John, was noticeably silent on the matter. I asked him why. He said he didn’t want his life to depend on someone that wasn’t totally committed and absolutely certain about what he was doing. Frankly, I’m surprised more guys haven’t left. CKW is an intense guy and if you aren’t absolutely committed to winning you are going to be very uncomfortable.

  14. WOW! …”being here for Spring practice”…”new expectation”…EXCELLENT…

    Spent a great deal of time this week using depth perception to recognize the distance between the steering wheel and pavement. I concluded from that exercise it was almost silly to anticipate a real shift in the W/L this year. As this thread has developed it is clear the biggest win needed before the game record gets better is in the locker room, practice, film room, training table, weight room and mindset of every player present at Spring practice. How about setting up a pool and everyone gets to pick the date KW gets rid of the TV in the lounge(I do not believe the NCAA has a rule on that). Winner gets an early evening pontificating session at Nicks.

  15. Chet, you are correct. I read too quick and responded too quick. My apologies and I should do better. After I responded I thought to myself it was odd because you are always so respectful and posts are not aimed at people. Again, I am sorry.

  16. I want to WIN also! A Saturday win makes my Sunday a suunier day. But more importantly, these young men deserve to be winners on the field as well as in the classroom. I started attending IU FB games when Lee Corso was the coach. My wife and I have have been season ticket holders for the past 15 years. We have never left a game before it ended. Why? Because we love to watch these young guys compete. Except for the Bill Mallory years, the ineptitude of the coaching has kept IU FB from becoming a winning program. The young men DESERVE better. It is going to take a while to change that; but, Kevin Wilson (and staff) will do that.

  17. Players quitting the team or transferring may be a good sign for the future of IU football. That of course depends on KW’s ability to replace them with bigger, faster, more athletic players that have the necessary amount of mental toughness. I would suspect most of the players that quit will come from the sophomore and Junior classes. If they’ve become malcontent’s, they need to be flushed from the team asap, before they become a cancer. You can’t, under any circumstances, allow the inmates to run the asylum.

    I am not surprised that nasty rumors are being posted on message boards. When you have a new coach that is making big changes, the team is losing and players that felt they were entitled to start have been benched, people get angry and try to use whatever means available to protest and protect their dignity. Of course, its cowardly to post rumors about a coach, his behavior and etc in a way that is impossible to verify or respond to, but that’s the nature of our on-line culture these days.

    The “noise” will get worse before it gets better. When KW’s got all his players “pulling on the rope” in the same direction, the wins will start coming and the noise will quiet down. Until then, it’s going to be typically unpleasant.

  18. Podunker,

    Exactly! Change is needed and has to be drastic, CKW knows this and embraces this. In terms of W/L this might be the same old IU, but in terms of the program, this is a whole new program!

    Love it!

  19. I also agree,this is the change the program needed. Nice and easy going is not going to bring wins on the field. Heres to good recruiting, and an administration that supports the program to it’s fullest.

  20. I agree with several people here that this transition is going to be a long, hard and tumultuous journey with no guarantee of success. However, if we do NOT go down this road, we can all pretty much guarantee continued failure. So, I’m willing to roll with the new approach because it offers the greatest probability of success in the long run. But patience is definitely the order of the day. Given the state of disaggregation right now coupled with the talent situation, we are unlikely to see another W this season. Hope I’m wrong, but think I’m right.

  21. Chet…you are absolutely right about NTSU and I was wrong to not check their present division status and conference alignments. Been reading too many posts from too many saying “we should always beat (a NTSU, a MAC, a…)[because] we’re the Big Ten.

    The purpose of my post, however, was to show the humor (we’ve got to laugh sometime) in the quote, the fact that they do reflect a culture that keeps repeating the same mistakes, over and over and over. Just like in Groundhog Day, it won’t change until we ‘will’ doing it differently from the second we get up. Only then are different results even imaginable.

    Take the issues of QB…whoever it is…they’re lives don’t seem to be changing one bit faced with the disaster they are a part of every day of their football lives. I would try something like trying to put on my jock strap through my shoulder pads just to do something different. (As I think about it, Groundhog Day should be mandatory watching and commenting ing group for teams like the Hoosier football team, the Cubs…

    What do we do as fans. Same thing…scream ‘change the QB’, ‘play my favorite neighbor’s kid!’ or the kid who’s more like me!, ”this coach won’t treat my favorite like mommie! We get depressed after the first four games, start screaming like second graders in the first third of the first season, demand the head of the QB while ignoring the hired professional’s opinion , start pointing out what personality traits we dislike about him, begin suggesting he’ll leave us if successful (probably because in all truth, as fans we see ourselves as having the football version of the plague. Before the new helmets finish a game we’re spreading, printing and exaggerating rumors and and half-truths about the ‘external, emotional, mental’ state of the players and coaches; give up all hope by two-thirds of that first season; demand the coach’ head if he does not win a minimum of 7 games the next season…and begin the speculation about the coaches who may be available to replace him by the ninth game.

    Here’s an idea….only for those of us who really believe we can actually do something without wetting and messing our diapers. Wilson can not leave- period- until he wins 30 games,… whether that takes him three years or ten years!

    End Groundhog Day in Bloomington, Indiana.

    Here’s a question. If you were Coach Wilson or a member of his staff, what would you be thinking about Hoosier fans and their football program now?

    I really believe we have a chance now. The very refreshing and encouraging thing about Coach Wilson (whatever is the record this year-or even next)- is that he is intelligent enough to recognize the “chuckhole” the players keep stepping in as they walk on the field.

    Merely saying ‘I just want to win” guarantees being a loser. The recognition (someone else, either Podunker or ForWhat Its Worth- both have a number of great posts worth reading and re-reading since Saturday) talked about ‘cognitive overload’ and as I think about it, that is exactly part of the problem…cognitive overload about how deeply in our own muck we were buried; that’s some very hard doo-doo to understand and accept)to cause the change of culture has to take place inside our program.

    That’s what I like about Wilson and his staff. He recognizes where and who we are, and is uncompromisingly not accepting it even at the cost of some possible games right now. Do it the right way!

    Thanks for pointing out my mistake.

  22. I did a little reading on NTSU and I wouldn’t be surprised to see it become a mid level football power. Maybe not Texas but pretty good. They are in the conversation on some conference re-alignments.

  23. Too much is made of the history.. Never ending is the saturation and obsession, the speaking of how we must abandon the losing mentality that hangs a cloud of darkness over a football program with no tradition, or how we must never fail to embrace the sunny b-ball days of the 70s when all was right under the sun our winning Knight. It never fails to enter our conversations..And with all due respect to Tsao, it often sounds like he’s still waiting for the groundhog to crawl out of a hole and see Bobby’s shadow.

    For every school that goes to a Rose Bowl game or an NCAA Final Four, there are hundreds of college programs that have never seen one trip to either. It’s been Groundhog Day all over the country for many universities for many, many years. Do they all accept losing? Do they all look back at their struggles with such wide a brush of disdain and negativity when sifting through memories of their teams and coaches of years gone by? Why must we keep reminding ourselves that Lynch wasn’t the guy…Did 9 out of 10 coaches before him shake the Hoosier football world from its axis?..But isn’t it somewhat insulting to assume the entirety of these coaches, players, and administrators were any less devoted to Indiana than those we are now anointing with all the necessary determination and gifts that were not present in the hearts, minds, and souls of their predecessors? We always want full control of our dreamy destiny, but so much of it relies on the merging of random events that play into fate without any perception our very generalizing eyes.

    And just because all men and women don’t run into burning buildings or jump in the cockpits of fighter planes, sure as hell doesn’t mean they wouldn’t be the perfect person in the moment of a unique challenge or rise above the rest in a different crisis. It’s truly sickening how we throw such careless disrespect on so many admirable coaches and student athletes simply because they don’t fit into the perfect portrait a philosophy that believes the final score in a game is equal to the commitment and the heroism in the unheralded effort. It’s beyond arrogant and totally removed from being a fan of anything when assumptions of character are based on bowls and banners…..or the new slogan on a billboard.

  24. FWIW, I think you somewhat exaggerate the intent. Not national championships nor, necessarily top or mid bowls; but a record of self-respect, honest effort and, yes, commitment to ‘try’ to succeed with an expectation that one will, as during the Mallory years.

    Read my postings and you’ll see I rarely call for the firing or forced resignation of coaches. If anything, I wait and, sometimes end up wondering- as in the case of Lynch- why they would put friends/staff members in jeopardy by failing to do what they know they must do, make changes in their staff, when it is some staff members are incapable of fulfilling their obligation to the institution(its people), the staff and their other colleagues (and its people). When that failure does happen, failing to act becomes a disloyalty. (And, I assure you when I look at my own actions that is exactly how I view my own failures).

    I don’t feel that about the Hoosier alone. I feel that about everything, absolutely everything, in life. I feel that way about being a father, a grandfather, I feel that way about being a citizen, about performing a job, being a student, a community member (country, city, church), a teacher, what I write… I feel that way about being a friend.

    To make it clear, the philosophy is true for me. I can not speak for anyone else.

  25. JPat, you can’t help yourself.

    “…man, on the national and local message boards…there are some interesting rumors about Wilson, Belcher, Bush, Willis and much other news on IU football. For the sake of Tsao and some others I will not post one thing but it is out there. It certainly does not look good right now. As bad as Lynch got dogged on by me and many others…you never read a bad rumor or heard anything bad about Lynch and staff behind closed doors.”

    I’ve written you before, you write it-you own it. In my neighborhood we used to have a kid who used to throw a stone through a window, run to the back of the group and stick his hand in his pocket. When the owner came out, he’d stand there- hand in pocket- try to look innocent.

    Or make himself cry.

  26. Tsao, you have me all wrong, I am not that guy and I was not that kid. You throw stones at people on here often and at me a lot as well. You are messing with a decent guy who has hit a wall with your crap! Please explain to me how just wanting to win guarantees being a loser? Sometimes I question if you really care at all about having a successful program in football at IU? You rationalize everything so it is so picture perfect. I think it is sad. You need to spend some time really taking a look at this football program and less time talking about war! If you have a problem with me, screw you. I have explained myself enough on here. You are way out of the loop with IU football and I mean way out, you are an old prima donna! You are exactly the reason IU football has been in the cellar for so long. You most likely would be saying Lynch needs more time if he was here. Your posts are completely ridiculous! I know you do not have a day job and it is easy for you to hide behind that computer. Does your son in the military know you get off on hating on people that have a different opinion than you, hating on good solid people. I can never respect someone as little as you, you are a tiny man. You are the guy who got picked on as a kid! Get a life!

  27. Crap, I should not have done that. I am going to get back no less than 1000 word response with perfectly written paragraphs and every word spelled correctly and I will give up reading it about half way down…it will have almost nothing to do with IU football and will focus on only false positives that sound good to the true non-fan, bandwagon guy and really try to get back at me…it might have a reference about war, groundhogs day, chet or Po or GOD knows what and it will suck!!!

  28. Could you guys both slow down a little? Seriously, the smallest slight seems to escalate over a series of posts until you guys start questioning each others’ manhood. You both seem like decent guys that would never act that way to someone sitting across the table from you. Most of the time (I admit, I have my moments) if I don’t like a post I ignore it. That’s the quickest way to let it die. You guys are on here for exactly the same reason and I would guess have exactly the same opinions on 99% of the subject matter. There’s no need to call someone on every little misstep they make and there’s no reason to take offense at every little barb. You don’t do that at work, I’m guessing. I tend to tell personal stories. Some people don’t like it and ridicule me for it. That’s OK, too. It doesn’t affect me and they can vent.
    Relax and enjoy that we can talk about IU sports with cyber acquaintances (TM) from all over. We’re lucky to have this little community.

  29. Chet, I agree. I have been on here going on 3 years and never had someone be a jerk to me like Tsao. I am done with it!

  30. Chet, I could not agree more with your thoughts about NTSU. It is damn near assured with Dan McCarney leading the program. He did a whale of a job at Iowa St. without having the fertile recruiting of north Texas, Oklahoma and NW Louisiana for a backyard. He now has the chance to really gain traction. I really believe he would be good for the B10 if called. PSU, PUke even Sillynois could do worse.

  31. J Pat; I sincerely do not understand how any comments posted on this site, regardless of who posted it, would have the ability to get a person upset, angry, offended, or whatever. This is supposed to be fun, interesting, informative, thought provoking, etc; not something that raises anyone’s blood pressure. Take it easy.

    My sincere advice is that in the future, if someone responds to one of your comments in a way that annoys or offends you (I still don’t understand how that could happen in these circumstances), just give yourself some time before responding. Take a breath and think before firing off a response that you may later regret. It’s just a blog about IU sports, man. Not worth getting upset over.

    I got some good advice a long time ago about interpersonal communication and conflict resolution. It can be paraphrased as this: “First seek to understand, then to be understood.” I find that when I respond to another person’s comments too fast, I increase my chance of making a mistake, not communicating precisely, or not communicating what I wanted to convey, therefore opening myself up to inflammatory dialogue, which then can spiral down quickly.

    Just relax, nobody’s trying to harm your family or get you fired from your job. I’m as passionate about IU sports as anyone alive, but this is just a blog and it’s not that big a deal. If everyone agreed with everything everyone wrote, this would not be any fun.

  32. Podunker and Chet are right. This is supposed to be fun and generally, it really is. I really enjoy the comments and people who care enough to think through the issues about Hoosier sports. JPat, I don’t want you to stop blogging either…if I don’t like one of your posts, I’ll just pass it by. Enjoy your season and posting.

  33. Another way to approach this is to look at it as your other dysfunctional family. I used to react much like JPat on the blogs…Not perfect..Still do. It is often more difficult to resist the spit back into the face a faceless insult. It’s a natural response to defend your integrity..Men from the days our Founding Fathers would often keep pistols in briefcases near in preparation for duels against those that dare make accusations against their name with only rumor and innuendo behind their words… Burr-Hamilton duel was a famous one. Very nasty stuff to question the honor and integrity of a man’s life; especially when with mockery and slander is in public display..I think the reaction is not so abnormal. Maybe there could be a very simple game version of a pistol duel installed on Scoop? Instead of saying a hundred words both parties will soon regret, the two bloggers in personal feud could opt for the pistol dueling “Patriots of Scoop” function (LiveDuel?).

    Don’t be embarrassed, JPat. It is a blog and we all want civilized discourse, but when lines are crossed there needs to be a little more empathy. It’s always more “fun” to be the calm and collected blogger watching the assault from the sideline/stands than the guy facing the paragraphs of mockery and ridicule. I also understand Tsao’s point of view. Though you believe in your heart that what you hear in private circle is factual, at times it can also be seen as public rumor that cannot be defended by those that are the targets. Problem is we all do it with First Amendment bullets(Some very direct..Some very slithery in the cautious shadows of judgments and contempt) and you shouldn’t be the trophy example of our own weaknesses when we have not kept the mouth and the written word from acting as a trigger aimed at someone’s dignity.

  34. Well now, in all fairness, I DO still carry a set of dueling pistols at all times. I mean, $hit happens. People say stuff. My ‘second’ is on speed dial. Always at the ready.

  35. Thanks for your intervention, Chet (the UN needed you last week) and ForWhatItsWorth (great summary, you understood my comment perfectly). Nothing gets my hair up as fast as the use of rumors and innuendo, especially when a lot of it (not referring to JPat’s) appears to be deliberate and have the intent of harming someone or something (in this case a program that is trying to dig itself out of years of neglect).

    I know (I really do) that JPat is a really good guy and a heck of a fan. He gives some weight to message boards and I don’t. My bad, if he wants to give them credence… NOMB.

  36. A little Hoosier history. Did you know that Aaron Burr was operating out of Clark County when he was marshaling his forces for his planned coup of the government? Lewis and Clark originated their trek from Clark County, as well. Most accounts recognize the Camp Dubois winter staging area in Illinois Territory as their training ground before officially leaving from St. Charles, MO, but they trained for over a year in Clark County, a natural stopping point due to the Falls of the Ohio.
    Read chapter seven for homework. There will be a quiz tomorrow.

  37. Po, I actually do not regret a thing I said in post 32 and 33. I watch you and Tsai scratch each others backs on a daily basis so I would expect you to look over all the times he has talked down to me and called me out in a harsh way. I am at peace. Heck, I wanted to say a lot of that a long time ago. I have left Tsao alone even though I almost never agree with him. Blogging on 3 sites on and off for almost 4 years and I have never done that but I feel better and I meant every damn word. I am J Pat, no more no less and I have nothing to hide. If there ever was an offer to get together, I would be there many times over but Tsao and some of you could not handle it. Some of you hide behind that funny blogger name and fire away and it is BS. I have toned it down…I don’t print many rumors or facts that I know would disturb people. I do appreciate the advice but I don’t think the BP climbed above 120 over 75 to be honest. I respect your take on this but I do not respect that you try to slap my hand while giving your boy Tsao a free pass. You guys are much older than me. The age demo has slid by and is in your favor now so you guys have that going for you I guess. Po, getting at your last paragraph…the reason I came back like I did was that I am truly that honest and sincere…it is a slap in my face when someone questions my integrity! I am not trying to stir the pot…campus, Bloomington, and blog/message board rumblings are awful about football right now and it consists of Wilson’s character and the way he treats his players. If I lived in N. Dakota I would want to know that whether truth or rumor. That is the buzz and I am not trying to do damage to anyone by saying that and I don’t feel I am doing damage to anyone by saying that. If you feel that way, I am sorry and if you don’t like it SCREW OFF!!!

  38. Wow- I’m relatively new to this site, but it seems that either 1) it’s populated by a lot of thin-skinned people or 2) I’m so thick-headed that I don’t know an insult when I see one. I’m going to chalk it up to the fact that we’re all passionate about IU football and maybe the emotions are spilling over to where they don’t belong, particularly because we are all irritated by the lousy play so far this season. Back to football . . .

    A lack of leadership from seniors, if that is indeed one of the problems, should not be surprising with a new sheriff in town- especially if the new sheriff is playing a lot of frosh. Loyalty and ownership are huge motivators, and if seniors feel that the new boss is focussed on developing new talent and a new system, what happened to all the hard work they put in over the prior three years? Usually seniors have been loyal to a system and claim some ownership to it. To what is there to be loyal now?

    Actually, playing a lot of freshman may be a good recruiting tool for a program in IU’s situation. A coveted prep player may be convinced that IU is the place to get playing time right away, instead of going to a better program where he will probably have to wait to even make the travel team.

  39. Chet, one impressive drive …along the Columbia River, which past Portland (I have family there) gets as wide as the Mississippi and opens up into the Pacific ocean. An incredible area, including a small river city just north of Cannon Beach; Astoria, Oregon.

    After years of wandering, when they arrived to a point where they actually saw west into the Pacific either Lewis or Clark (don’t remember which one) supposedly said, “I think I see a sea…”. I guess! I’ve also driven from Cannon Beach east to Portland along the north shore of the Columbia, incredibly gorgeous, especially where you begin to get some views of Mt. Hood, Mt. St Helens and some of the other Cascades. If any of you ever want a great and two days, try the Amtrak from LA to Seattle train. Relatively inexpensive (get a roomette (for 2)- great Parlor car and good food included). You travel about 100 yards from the Pacific (going north) for the first 5 hours or so, through the Monterrey peninsula and, later, around San Francisco Bay at night. When you get up in morning you are staring at Mt Shasta and for the next eight hours climbing (to about 6-8000 ft)up the heart of the Cascades. Beautiful! Great train two.

  40. TTG, I’ve been wanting to do a train trip for years. Twenty years ago I took the California Zephyer but only the part through the Rockies. Biggest thing hold me back is that my dog always travels with me. I’m not above donning sunglasses and putting a leader harness on him if it comes to that. I met a guy in a Port Angeles, Washington, laundromat that did just that.

  41. When we drove through Portland it seemed everyone on one side of the river was under 25. Seriously,it was very strange. Looked like outtakes from ‘Logan’s Run’.

  42. I read through all of this and all I can say is WOW! J Pat, you’re one of my favorite posters on here, and usually for the calm and collected manner in how you approach things. I know the passion you have, and don’t mind at all that you show it. Chet always comes with good post, though the history lessons not pertaining to IU athletics are a little much (I’m going through school again with my 12 y/o’s homework), but some like the Leis and Clark information is interesting. Podunker I have often disagreed with in the past and have had my verbal spars with, though I do respect his opinion and the fact he doesn’t take personal shots and stick to the subject line. TTG, at times makes some very good points if you can get through the novels he writes to make a point that could be made in 3 sentences or less. I have had my past battles with him as well.

    As a whole I really enjoy the scoop, especially since one particular numb nuts no longer comes on here. I have also enjoyed over the quality of which the football conversations have grown since the inception of this blog.

    In the future lets all (myself included) keep to the material at hand and not attack the person writing it. Just because you differ in opinion doesn’t make anyone’s opinion more right or more wrong, unless of course you don’t agree with me, then you’re always wrong!!! 🙂 Have a great day everyone! GO HOOOSIERS!!!

  43. Mike P, well said. what you said in the last paragraph is the issue. I can only be attacked so many times before I have to stand up and say…hey, this is BS!!! I make a sincere effort not to attack other posters even if the view is outlandish so it is a sign of disrespect when it happens to me..over and over and over and over by the same guy. Anyway, have a good one to you and all posters. RESPECT is the issue here, a common ground that has been missing because certain people do not agree with what you write or want to be the scoop police when it is not even needed.

  44. J Pat; Just a few points in response to your post #45:

    1. I was not trying, nor have I ever tried to “slap your hand” and I don’t remember ever trying to “slap the hand” of any poster on this site. I may disagree with something someone said, but that’s just straightforward debate, not any attempt to “slap hands.” Your post #32 conveyed that you were angered by Tsao’s post, and I was simply offering friendly advice.

    2. Tsao is NOT my boy (“your boy Tsao a free pass.”) No one on this site is, has ever been, or will ever be “my boy.” Some of Tsao’s comments I agree with and some I do not. Sometimes I express agreement and some times I do not. Some times I express my disagreement and some times I do not. I don’t consciously or intentionally respond to Tsao any differently than any other contributor to this site, with the exception that Tsao is a frequent contributor. Based on some exchanges, my guess is that Tsao and I are in the same age category, both have lived in/near Chicago, and have a connection to the 82nd Airborne. But other than that, there is no other connection that I’m aware of.

    3. Your reference to anyone getting a “free pass” from me, or anyone else, was not germane. Free pass on what? Tsao’s disagreement with your reference to the negative buzz on other blogs? It’s not my place to defend you or anyone else on this site. I either agree, disagree or simply have no opinion on others’ comments and I can choose to respond or to ignore the matter. I’m not here to take sides between Tsao, you, or any other posters. I’m here because of my interest in IU sports.

    4. I shared, in a previous post, my opinion about the negative “buzz” that you referenced about Wilson, the players’ discontent with how he treats his players, etc. I stated that I was not surprised, and in fact I anticipated it. Furthermore, I believe it will get much worse as the season progresses and the losses mount. In my opinion, having been a witness to such behavior and on the receiving end of that type of negative buzz (a.k.a., rumors innuendo, half truths, lies, gossip, personal attacks, etc) in corporate settings, it is the by-product of young, immature, weak-minded and insecure people who feel threatened by a significant change in culture and a threat to their self esteem and/or sense of dignity. It is typical in organizations undergoing a significant change in culture. Let me know when there is proof that Wilson physically assaulted a player or another coach, violates State or Federal law or violates NCAA rules. Otherwise, I’ll chalk all that negative buzz up to the typical response of a few immature, disgruntled, weak-minded people responding to a man that is working very hard to transform a group of losers into winners. Once you’ve been part of an organization that has gone through such a cultural transformation first hand, you’ll understand where people like Tsao and myself come from, and you may be less concerned with or interested in the “negative buzz” orbiting throughout the blogasphere.

    Sincerely.

  45. I’ll second that Mike P. A person can be one of four things on here. 1. A Troll 2. A D%!K 3. Hijacker 4. Respectful. Ask ourselves, as individuals, which one are we. And remember, even with correct grammar, tone and intent can be interpreted different, than intended.
    We are all Hoosier fans. We are on the same team here fellas.

  46. OK, so I’m home for a wedding and didn’t check the blog much in the last 24 hours. I don’t have time to process all of this, who said what and what not. So how about you guys just don’t kill each other until I get back, huh? Thanks.

  47. This thread pretty much puts to rest the sexist and stereotypical view that women enjoy a good soap opera more than men.

  48. Podunker, I agree completely with every point you’ve made. To begin with, and for the record, other than some points in common (age group, area where we live, similar career experiences and the fact that we seem to comment independently on each post as the subject attracts each of us (sometimes agreeing, sometimes not), we’ve never met. There is no conspiracy here.

    Secondly, you’ve interpreted my critique exactly for what it was and continues to be; a comment about negative, anonymous “buzz” of unknown origin in the message boards. You’re exactly right, I agree that these issues increase as people begin to feel a loss of control as an organization’s culture is changed. Particularly when that change is led by new leadership from ‘outside’ the organization.

    So far, as I’ve watched CKW make changes and make his vision clear, the issue of how many games we win or which round pegs fit in which square hole, how it will ‘be seen’ by the family of this [future] kid or that kid loses importance and gains perspective. KW is clearly focused on the change process. That makes me very happy and I fully support it; it is the only way good, consistent football will come to and assume a permanence in Bloomington. I fully support it. Steady as he goes!

  49. Chet, re the train it is even better than you imagine it (that was the case with me). I’ve taken the Coats Starlight (LA-Portland) section three times ; the Empire State (CHI-Minneapolis-Portland)twice- (the northern mid-west plains have a beauty all their own, especially as you travel through the back yards and little towns that really are America. And, from Glacier National Park on (to Portland- about 12 hours) again, God’s travelogue.

    The California Zephyr is another great experience.(I’ve done it once) and you’re right, from Denver on the Rockies and later, the Sierra Nevada leave you open-mouthed. My next plan is to either catch hit here, take it to Emeryville (San Francisco) or Sacramento and catch the Coast Starlight there.

    Then, maybe next year CHI-New Orleans-Albuquerque-LA-Portland ….

    As for the Portland side of the river…believe they are all under 24, no one owns a tie and lives their life surrounded by huge green ferns coming out of the ground that I can ony get by paying $25 at a plant store or watching National Geographic TV. They also have a different attitude (but love their Oregon Ducks!).

  50. I think it is impossible, unless one has experienced the culture change process first hand, how difficult it is to appreciate what it takes to go through it. When I was right out of IU’s Business School, without knowing it, I accepted an offer of employment with a company that was poised to begin making radical changes to its operations and culture. Shortly after I began my employment, the B.O.D. hired a new CEO. He came in and immediately began making, relative to the company’s past, radical changes. He announced that there would be no “sacred cows” and challenged the employees to contribute or find other employment. A lot of veteran and senior employees were “reorganized” out of the company with severance packages. I was fortunate to survive simply because I was too new and too young to have been hardwired into the old culture. Long story short, this new CEO was reviled by many of the tenured employees. They did not want to change. They were comfortable in their jobs and saw changes as a threat. The gossip was viscous and rumors ran rampant. You’d have thought the devil himself had taken human form and become our CEO. All the new CEO did was to triple the value of the company in a few years and provide prosperity to the employees that endured and contributed to the transformation. Many people who had been stagnated by the previous management team got promotions. Every employee became an equity holder and that equity became very valuable. But most importantly, the people in the company developed confidence in themselves and each other and we had a lot of FUN growing that business and improving the products and services for our customers. Those were the toughest, most demanding years of my career, but in looking back, they were also the most rewarding. I would not trade that experience for anything.

    It is my hope that some day, about four years from now, this year’s IU freshman football players can take great pride and recognize a similar sense of accomplishment.

  51. I wanted to ride on to Emeryville but it was just a short foray for a long weekend with my (then) new wife. I love San Francisco. I need to go back soon.

  52. Podunker, exactly!

    We forget that when RMK (whether one is a fan or not) arrived in Bloomington we were still known as the Hurrying Hoosiers. We literally had a run and shoot offense, frequently scored over 100 points and…20-25 turn over games were common.

    He changed IU basketball to strictly man-to-man aggressive defense, and to a take-care-of-the-ball offense based on picks, moving and passing (one instruction in both practice and games was X number of passes before the ball could be shot/no matter what). It was not an easy cultural change and there was as much grumbling as there is now, especially among the Hoosier fans.

    Obviously, not only the players but the fans eventually developed great pride in ‘the Hoosier Way’. That would be a great conclusion-four years from now the players wearing in their walk and body language the pride of doing it the right way.

  53. Po,I can see I offended you and for that I sincerely apologize. At 30 something years old I would say I have seen enough change in my life…more than most. I appreciate the culture change that is happening at IU now with football and basketball. When I read your #4 I realize how naive you are to almost everything with IU football right now. That is not your fault. Please accept my apologies for anything I wrote that bothered you in any way. I care too much about things I should not. I care too much about IU football and about this blog. I have never and I mean never posted anything on this site that I believe to be untrue in any way, shape, or form. I hate rumors like most people but when you are as connected as I am and almost 100% of the time it is right on…what can I say. That is not arrogamt but TRUE! I am truly bothered that people like Tsao cannot see I am coming from a good genuine and sincere place even if I do bring up gossip or rumor. Tsao hates that he says but he cannot let me be my own guy. It is a blog guys, no more no less. I hate the war talk..I have family and friends fighting now and the war talk sends me over the edge but until yesterday I just let you guys talk it out. It does not have shat to do with IU sports like freaking train rides don’t. I just let people go and go on here and some cannot show the same respect to me. I’m not on here saying exactly what I heard…”I heard Wilson likes maple syrup on his pancakes and ran off several coaches before the season”…I never do that. If I even hint to bad/negative talk about something…MY SHIP IS SUNK on here…I get lectured…it sucks! I have to watch Tsao criticize Dustin and others. Is he getting paid by the IU internet positive sports police. I will say that Po, Tsao and any other person I bothered in this thread…I am sorry from the bottom of my heart. I need some distance from this blog. It is toxic right now for me. Someone on here used to talk about not being part of the yacht club on here. I always thought I fit in well here but that time is gone. Now you have to be almost twice my age, talk about other stuff than IU sports, watch what the hell you say, and make damn sure you write nothing that can be thought of as gossip or rumor. I did enjoy this and hope to again one day. Tsao…the blog is all yours…white flag is waving!!! As always, GO IU sports!!!

    PS Sad thing is we would most likely all get along if we were together…easy to be a jerk typing on a key board. The internet has helped us to lose our identity in the IU sports world as good solid decent human beings!

  54. JPat no need to cease your uniqueness on here even for a short time. As you stated this is a blog and to this date I don’t think anyone can feel physical pain through the computer screen(although who knows what is being innovated). Stay on with vibrance if for no other reason than I ask you to for selfish reasons and I like your perspectives.

  55. watched practice a few times from the hill early on and EWB was the better more accurate of the 2. Wilson has said QB is not the problem so I would find it weird to start Kiel. If I was coach I would start Tre at this point…if he can throw decently. I will admit Kiel looked really good last week so I guess I don’t know. You shoot WB’s confidence if you start the other guy now but maybe Kiel has caught him with accuracy. I guess I just don’t know Clarion. With the rumblings of Gunner looking at other possibilites whether true or false…the staff is only human so maybe they lean toward Dusty a little. Just human nature.

  56. It is now being reported the new kid Ryan Kartje talked to GK tonight and he reaffirmed his commitment. So if true and also if true DK starts tomorrow it would stand that he earned it this week in competition during practice.

  57. JPat,

    You see this situation pretty clearly. Keep posting. I’d like to win today.

    Simple question for all if I may be so bold. Would you rather this coach win these boys over, or run them off? Does it have to be one or the other?

  58. I don’t think he’s running anyone off. He’s just laid down the law. The players are making their own choices as to whether they are willing to do what is necessary to be a contributor to the team. If they are not, he is wishing them a fond ‘adieu’. As do I.

  59. Re DK, Coach has been pretty clear that the competition remains open. If DK starts it doesn’t mean anything other than confirming what he’s been saying all along.

  60. Maybe a poor analogy but have you ever been in a dark room and all of the sudden the lights are turned on? It takes time for your eyes to adjust. When dealing with the mind, work ethic and ego that period of adjustment time can take a long time. Wilson is probably not running anyone off. Players react differently to new situtations. This is not limited to a football team, all aspects of life’s challenges present very similar situations all the time.

  61. Well said Jay, change is hard on everyone involved. But the change is absolutely necessary. No one is “being run off”, some may be unwilling or unable to meet the new standards as change takes place and choose to leave. But, the change for this institution was absolutely necessary.

  62. J Pat; Nothing you wrote offended, upset or bothered me in the least. I did not take offense to anything you said in this string and I honestly can’t recall ever reading anything you’ve posted that offended me. As far as I’m concerned, you have nothing to apologize for. As I stated in post #37, “I sincerely do not understand how any comments posted on this site, regardless of who posted it, would have the ability to get a person upset, angry, offended, or whatever.”

    I simply disagree with a couple of your comments (“slapping hands”, “my boy”, etc) written in your previous post and wanted to clarify what I believe may be a few misperceptions.

    No offense taken, no need to apologize to me. Keep on cheering for IU and keep on posting.

  63. Po and Kevin, thanks so much and I mean that but I do need a rest…just to read for a while will be good for me. Cheers guys!

  64. KevinK; in theory, it’s always preferable to improve the talent you have then to replace it, but that is 100% up to the players. If players can’t or won’t perform to the standards their coaches demand, they’ll either sit or be encouraged to transfer. Physical limitations notwithstanding, it’s up to the individual players. The mistake some coaches get caught up in is to automatically see recruits as an improvement. Some call it the “savior complex” or the “visiting fireman syndrome,” thinking that people outside the organization are automatically better than the people already in it.

    I suspect quite a few of IU’s players simply don’t have the physical tools needed to compete in the Big Ten. That’s not their fault. But if they work hard and develop mental toughness, I think Wilson will give them the opportunity to play, even if it’s just on special teams or garbage time.

    I suspect next year’s recruiting class to better than any IU has seen in years. I suspect that classes beyond 2012 will include even bigger, faster and more athletic players than the class of 2012. In the next three years, you’re going to see a lot of young guys starting and playing for IU. I anticipate IU will experience higher than average transfers from this year’s sophomore and redshirt-sophomore classes. If you read between the lines, Wilson has recently signaled his disappointment with those two classes.

    This is why he has a seven year contract. He has a steep hill to climb.

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