Gunner Kiel looking elsewhere

This is my story for tomorrow’s paper. Andy Graham will post his column shortly.

The most highly-regarded recruit to commit to Indiana in at least two decades most likely won’t be coming to Indiana after all, and IU coach Kevin Wilson’s most important off-field victory in the first year of his tenure has for now been wiped off the books.

Columbus East quarterback Gunner Kiel told Steve Wiltfong of 247Sports.com Friday that he called Wilson Thursday night to tell him he was re-opening his recruitment. Kiel, the brother of IU redshirt sophomore quarterback Dusty Kiel and the No. 1 rated pro-style quarterback in the country according to several recruiting websites, has a visit scheduled to Notre Dame today to watch the Fighting Irish play Southern California.

Kip Kiel, Gunner’s father, confirmed the re-opening to the Herald-Times via text message. However, neither Gunner nor his father responded to multiple phone calls for further comment.

Kiel told Wiltfong that Indiana would still be under consideration as he looks elsewhere, but it is rare for a player who has publicly re-opened his commitment to return to the school to which he originally committed.

“It’s technically not over,” said Mike Farrell, national recruiting analyst for Rivals.com. “He’s reevaluating his commitment. He’s not de-committed. But you gotta read between the lines and know if he’s doing that, he’s going to commit somewhere else.”

Notre Dame is just one of a number of powerhouse programs that were recruiting Kiel before he gave his verbal commitment to Indiana in late July. Also included in that group were Alabama, Louisiana State, Michigan, Tennessee, Oklahoma and Missouri, though the latter two have already taken commitments from high-level quarterbacks for the Class of 2012.

The loss of Kiel is obviously a significant one for the Hoosiers in a number of different aspects. The most evident is that Indiana has had shaky quarterback play for much of this season from redshirt sophomore Ed Wright-Baker and Dusty Kiel. True freshman Tre Roberson has shown some promise, especially with his speed, but the strong-armed Gunner Kiel was still expected to be an upgrade. Heading into Friday night’s sectional playoff game against Shelbyville, Kiel had completed 63 percent of his passes for 1,755 yards and 20 touchdowns against just two interceptions. He’s also rushed for 428 yards and 12 scores.  The strong-armed, 6-foot-4, 210-pounder with exceptional field sense threw for 2,645 yards and 36 touchdowns a season ago.

“I think it’s obviously a blow whenever the top player in your home state and one of the top players in the country de-commits,” said Allen Trieu, midwest recruiting analyst for Scout.com. “They haven’t eliminated Indiana. At the point at which he eliminates them, it really becomes devastating.”

What’s harder to quantify is how much damage Kiel’s re-opening does symbolically, how it hurts the perception of the program to both fans and recruits.

Analysts said they expect the immediate impact to be limited, but that it does cost them a recruiting tool for future classes. Though IU was hopeful that Gunner could turn into something of a pied piper recruit and convince several other prep stars to come to Indiana with him, that hadn’t yet happened.  The Hoosiers already had 13 players committed for the Class of 2012 before Kiel committed, including such promising in-state stars as Warren Central’s Kevin Davis and Jordan Wallace. They added just five players after he made his decision and just one of them was an offensive player.

“I don’t think anyone committed because Gunner Kiel committed,” said Wiltfong, the national recuiting analyst for 247 Sports.. “I don’t remember one recruit saying, ‘Well, they got Gunner Kiel so now they got me.’ It’s a blow, certainly. But this happens at major programs all the time.”

But that’s why it stings worse for Indiana.  This sort of thing doesn’t happen to the long-suffering Hoosiers because they don’t usually have the opportunity to recruit players of Kiel’s caliber.  His commitment was the most tangible evidence that Wilson could take the IU program to a level it had never before reached.

“This was supposed to be the springboard to making Indiana a football school and not just a basketball school,” Farrell said. “It’s not over, but the writing’s on the wall.”

77 comments

  1. Man, this one is tough to take. I’ve been an IU football fan most of my life and this sucks hearing that a big part of the hope for the future of IU Football isn’t going to be there. I’m not ready to jump ship on Kevin Wilson yet, but from what we hear from this IU team and some former players at Northwestern and Oklahoma is that it takes a special type of player to want to play for Kevin Wilson. I’m not saying that is bad, but for Indiana University when you’re just trying to get out of the perenial cellar, we may need a less abrasive personality at the helm. I don’t know if Wilson’s personality was a big part in Gunner’s change of heart, but there is no doubt about it that playing for Wilson is not for everybody!

  2. TuShay, please reference the source of the information you have from former Oklahoma and Northwester players. Or is this just more gossip slinging?

  3. Podunker, you don’t have to believe me and I’m not hear to sling mud…I’ve been and will be an IU fan for the rest of my life…I have 2 IU degrees and have no reason to lie; I want IU to be undefeated, but I’ve heard it from the horse’s mouth on all of those guys from Northwestern and I’m a concerned fan and alum. I’m not ready to say we need to go into another direction with coaching (after 10 months), but I will say I’m very concerning with what I’m seeing and hearing.

  4. G. Kiel is on his way out. Time to start Roberson and develop him to be our future starter. Neither D. Kiel no EWB cut the mustard IMO.

  5. It’s just one player, and highly rated QB’s in high school often don’t pan out. But how much of this is Dusty telling his brother to run from this program? This isn’t Bill Mallory, proven winner as a head coach struggling through his first year. This isn’t Hep. This feels like Cam Cameron, the arrogant position coach who just isn’t a head coach. With so many players quitting, and the players having to be told to act enthusiastic on the sidelines after the BSU loss, who in their right mind would want to play for Wilson? The strange off field behavior before camp, the radio interview gone bad, the flat unemotional team-at some point it just seems obvious that this guy isn’t suited to lead a team. He’s obviously a great developer of talent, but that doesn’t make him a head coach, no matter how much IU pays him. 7 years Fred, really?

  6. It’s INDIANA football…who care’s.We have been bad for so long it just doesn’t matter anymore.We alway’s had basketball to wait on..now we don’t even have that.IU sport’s has fallen so far down…I’m surprised the Big Ten doesn’t try to kick us out.Indiana is at the bottom in both football and basketball and it look’s like that’s the way it will be for a long time.Anybody but me…or is it just me…think the board of trustee’s at IU who do the coach hiring…are they totally stupid or just don’t care.If Tom Crean..who has never won anything as a coach before…and Kevin Wilson who has never coached before..is the best IU can do….then we are a hopeless university.

  7. We were pretty cool during the Bob Knight years…a bad spectacle sense…you always knew it was going to be entertaining with kNIGHT whether he was getting in trouble or doing something really great…..thanks goes to miles brand and clarance whatever his name is.

    brand never gets the job with ncaa if he did not stand up to kNIGHT…what a spectacle he was.

  8. I was fully confident and repeatedly said I believed Gunner gave his commitment honestly and with his family’s support. Now, for whatever reason, he has changed his mind and wants to reconsider. That is his right. Period.

    If he comes, great. If he doesn’t we’re going to be fine. We’ve asked for a change in our football culture and we are getting it. Anyone who follows the Hoosier has seen a team that, week by week, is improving. The standards are set high and they are meeting their challenges.

    IU is consistently improving. The coaching is solid. The recruitment seems to be bringing in quality players. If Gunner decides to go elsewhere it does not diminish IU nor its football future one bit.

    The key move was made approximately a year ago when we brought in Kevin Wilson and the new staff. His history and his performance thus far are solid proof that, as fans, we need to be stronger and focus on gaining more knowledge about it takes to build a strong, consistent program.

    If anything, the entire incident, the months of hand ringing merely show the absurdity of the spectacle that recruiting has become. To approach sports from that perspective presents all of the challenge of Jello Instant Pudding.

    Gunner’s decision does not and can not question the value of Indiana University or of the meaning of the word Hoosier. The insecurity, fickleness and self-flagellation pathetic outcry by weak-kneed, self-pitying, hysterical fans is the biggest blot on Hoosiers coming from this experience.

    Cry and sniffle on…I’ll watch the Hoosiers and enjoy the change coming along with those that have the substance to be patient and strong.

  9. Par 5- “about WHAT it takes to build a strong, consistent program”.

    hand ringing replaced by hand wringing

  10. TuShay; Never heard of those guys. But I asked and you answered. Thanks.

    But I still don’t get it. What’s the rap on Wilson? Is he a screamer? Is he verbally abusive? Is he a bad loser? Does he demand players work hard, go to class, and stay out of trouble? Does he belittle his players? Does he cheat? What exactly is the knock on Wilson? How does a guy survive 9 years at Oklahoma if he’s such a bad guy? Please fill in the gap for me. What are some of his former players saying about the man? If it’s not hearsay, please tell the Hoosier Nation what’s wrong with this guy. I hear all this noise, this innuendo, but no one comes forth with anything specific.

    I want to hear the knock on Wilson. My guess is there’s nothing significant there. My guess is that Wilson’s a tough, demanding coach that does not coddle his players. My guess is some young egos have been bruised by Wilson’s honest and direct feedback and now, when he’s in a bigger spot light, it’s payback time.

    And if Wilson’s such a jerk, as some on this site have alluded, how did he get Gunner to commit in the first place?

  11. I’m kinda like the judicial system. I don’t care about hearsay. Only time will tell but he obviously did a damn good job at Oklahoma. BL was an incredibly unsuccessful head coach previously and the IU job fell into his lap. It was too much for him but I don’t blame him. He never should have been given the job. I’m guessing KW is very demanding. I’m fine with that.

  12. I dont get the people who want to rid of Wilson. No more nice guy at Indiana. It’s Wilson’s way or no way. I’m glad kids are leaving. We have needed a “cleanout” for awhile. If Indiana isn’t at a bowl in 3-4 years, then yeah I can understand. This is a long-term commitment that requires time.

  13. As far as Gunner goes, I can’t blame him. I really can’t. Gunner needs to lookout for Gunner. Nobody else will.

  14. OldSchool – Really??? Tom Crean has never won anything? I seem to remember that he is one of the rare coaches in the NCAA to reach the Final Four and that he had several Sweet Sixteen visits. I also saw him run up 20 point leads against top 20 teams with a team without any players that would start on most Big 10 teams. Plus, he has put together 2 top 10 recruiting classes in 4 years – what exactly do you want. I am no fan of the offense that he runs and the players he has had thus far – mainly due to injuries and the fact that Kelvin Sampson left our program in the can – I have no sense of how defense will be as the good players we now have start to work into his system. My guess from watching some of his other teams in the past is that they will lock it down as soon as they have the bodies – which is THIS season. I think we have a trip to the NCAA this year and I think with a few seconds of good luck last year we would have had a trip to the NIT. I am withholding judgement on Wilson. He is no Jim Harbaugh – but I have seen stretches of good football and then stretches of what looked like kids that didn’t know what they were supposed to do – that looks like we will be much, much better once he has had a team with his own kids – but we are 3 years at least from that.

  15. TTG, Your last post was the best one I have seen regarding the current state of IU football and Coach WIlson.

  16. This is the worst thing I have heard in a long time. I have been so excited about the future of IU football since Gunner committed. Obviously because he’s good, but also because he’s an Indiana guy. Seriously, if he goes somewhere else you might as well write IU down for perpetual mediocrity. Attendance will be way down next year for sure. Wilson will make some nice cash over the next 10 years, but we will see the same ol’ jazz. Notre Dame is lame. Nobody in Indiana cares about Notre Dame. All their fans are in California and New York. He could have been a hero at IU. Hopefully he see’s Indiana has way more to offer.

  17. When BHSN scrimmaged them at the beginning of this season, I wasn’t too impressed with his skills. He plays for a 4A school. Put him in with the big boys of 5A and see if he gets the numbers. Not gonna happen. Columbus East couldn’t stand the heat with the big boys of 5A and did some ‘questionable’ movement of students to get themselves into the 4A bracket so they could be the ‘powerhouse’. Don’t see this kid as impressive as I did the kid from Lawrence Central last week. Wait until he gets in with the big boys in college, then he can impress me with his numbers. No big loss, move on.

  18. The five ex-NU players were all linemen. While Wilson was at NU he was OC, QB and AHC. He did not coach the line directly. I don’t know much about Martinez. Strief played for Wilson 1 year, Farman 3, King 3 and Roehl 2. All 4 played at least briefly in the NFL.

    What I find interesting is that well respected coaches like Randy Walker and Bob Stoops has hired Wilson and regularly promoted and given more responsibility.

    Now, after 10 months Wilson is a terrible coach with 5 guys from NU who can cause people to become concerned. Nothing has emerged or come out of Miami or Oklahoma.

    It really must be the water in Bloomington, IU has made morons and idiots out of some previously good coaches. It could never be other issues. JPat, and I am not berating him, said that he was hearing bad reports in Bloomington. My question is simple. If you have 100 or so players, 12 or so coaches, trainers, support staff and others, are you supposed to keep them all happy? Add in the fact that this is year one and Wilson is changing the entire mentality of the program.

    Anyone who has played, coached or been involved with collegiate football should have expected what is happening. I don’t blame people for being distressed, my mother was the same way. At least she admitted that she didn’t know anything.

  19. Correlation is not causation. Just because he was on the staff when they left does not mean it had anything to do with him. The rooster down the hill does not make the sun come up.

  20. Based on his name and comments I am guessing OldSchoolHoosier is both miopic and stuck in the past.

    Apparently he hasn’t paid attention to basketball outside of Indiana, and doesn’t look to see what the recruiting trail is about to yield.

    Since the football section of The Scoop is probably the only place he’ll get information on IU hoops here are a couple free tidbits…

    -Crean’s record in 9 years at Marquette was 190-96 (.664 win %)
    -Marquette moved to the Big East in 2005 & Crean led the Eagles to 3 straight 20+ win seasons against tougher competition.
    -Marquette went to NCAA’s 5 times under Crean, including all 3 yrs in the Big East, and only missed post-season play once.
    -Crean coached Marquette to the Final Four in 2003.
    -Crean is a top recruiter, not only getting players like DWade to Marquette, but the #12 recruiting class in 2009 (this year’s juniors, which would look much better if not for the Creek injuries, and would have been more successful if added to a veteran nucleus), a national Freshman of the Year candidate in Zeller, a top 3 recruiting class in 2012, and what looks like a top 3 class in 2014.
    -Indiana has improved it’s record each year under Crean, and should continue that trend this year.

    So, you old fart… to answer your question, it’s not just you, you are joined by a couple other idiots in your opinions. But out of curiosity, who would you have hired to bring IU basketball out of what was, in effect, the death penalty left by Sampson? Can’t wait to hear this list… Full of a bunch of high-profile coaches who probably wouldn’t have touched IU with a 10 foot pole in 2008 I’m sure, or maybe sleezebags like Calipari who (like Sampson) if you don’t mind forfeiting your Final Fours down the road can turn your program around in a heart beat with his slick one-and-done recruits.

    Please, OldSchool, I’m begging you… impart your wisdom on us.

  21. I was surprised when he committed to IU and am not surprised that he’s looking elsewhere. IU is not going to get the TOP Recruits. It has to go the Mallory Route. Find players who are better than MAC types with the potential to be BIG TEN players and then develope that in them. If Wilson does that (and I think he can–by the way, getting rid of players that don’t ‘fit’ is also a good thing) then down the road IU will get that Top player or two from time to time. Kiel committing was a “stunner.” His ‘decommitting’ is not

  22. Jay Gregg – please get your facts straight. You are incorrect on all of your statements. Farman wasn’t a lineman, he was the starting tight end and he left with eligibility, he’s currently an ER Dr. at Hendrick’s County hospital. So, if you want to hear it from the horse’s mouth, contact him. Martinez left with a year eligibility. All 5 guys have said they thought Wilson was the worst human being they ever met.

    I’m saying for a culture and for a program like Indiana, it doesn’t match. You don’t have to be a complete a–hole and SOB to be a good coach to build a program. As an IU alumnus, I’m concerned that Fred Glass choose poorly in this coach. It’s driving away players, instead of bringing them together.

  23. TuShay,

    What is a tight end if not a lineman? Farman was at NU for 4 years, yes he was a redshirt freshman, so I guess he could have taken the fifth year. He chose medical school, so I would guess that he made the correct decision.

    I admit that I don’t know anything about Martinez, so I did make a mistake there, when I said that they all stayed.

    You obviously do not agree with Wilson’s approach to changing the culture at IU. Have you been to practice, or have you spoken to any current players? I am not saying that you are wrong. I am saying that you have no accountabilty. It is so easy to make statements when you do not have to back those statements up with facts.

    Quite frankly, 5 guys saying that Wilson was the worst human being they ever met, does not make it.

    One last question. Did you watch the game today? Do you believe that was an example of a coach/staff driving players away? I think not.

  24. Jay Gregg –

    I did watch the game today…Roberson looked better than the other quarterbacks. I drank water while watching the game, instead of the red Kool-Aid you drank. I’m a life long IU sports fan and alum, but I have every right to be concerned and troubled by what I know and what I see. It’d bring me no joy for me to tell you in a few years “I told you so”, I want IU to quit being the laughing stock of the FBS.

  25. You tell of all of CTC and his great accomplishments…but again what has he won…nothing..no NCAA Championships…a few good players he has recruited..but like I said…getting them here and coaching them is two different things.I do not think CTC is a horrible coach…just think IU could have done better.With all IU basketball has done over the Bob Knight era and Crean is the best??I understand Davis and Sampson ran it into the ground…but that again is the board of trustee’s and former president’s fault for not doing a better job.Nobody and I mean nobody thought Sampson would have been hired to replace Davis…again Trustee’s and president’s fault.The only coach that IU could have brought in after Davis and turned this program around would have been Steve Alford.Mr.Basketball..IU player…Indiana golden boy…not a great coach either in any other of his stop’s…but put him at IU and we are a contender again.He done well at Iowa and is doing great at New Mexico…has won 30 2 out of last 3 season’s.His conference has 2 top 10 teams in BYU…SDST..and his team has beat both.You don’t think Alford would do better than Crean???..then your very stupid…you think Alford would have got us in the mess Sampson did?? then again your stupid…maybe some of you should apply for a job as a Trustee for IU…I think you would be perfect for the job…

  26. Tu Shay,

    I am glad that you watched today’s game. IU competed the entire game.

    No, I do not drink Kool-Aid, regardless of color. I actually like Kool-Aid, just not when someone is trying to get under my skin.

    You state that “you know”. What do you know?

    You seem to feel that Kevin Wilson is not the answer. OK. What is/are your answers?

    Is Kelly at ND acceptable?

    Do you feel/think that Fitzgerald at NU is always a perfect gentleman on the sideline?

    Is it just possible that your desires are similar to mine and all IU alum and fans? You are free to choose how you would like to reach that goal. I don’t feel that you are correct. I can’t say that I am correct.

    Still, I don’t drink Kool-Aid. Grow up and find something else to anger me, that does not work.

  27. “He did well at Iowa.”

    Of course he did. That’s why they fired him.

    Geoff, don’t waste your time on these clowns. Their solution to everything from world peace to curing cancer is either cut taxes on the rich or hire Steve Alford.

  28. @oldschoolhoosier—-Gene Keady never won an NCAA but I would say he was a pretty darn good coach. Get off CTC back…..

  29. Old School…if you don’t care about IU football, and now IU basketball (your quote), than why make a comment. Hit the road and don’t let the door hit you in the “posterior”. Tu Shay… your boys from NU are more than likely from the same make-up of Neil Reed. They want the coach to give them something, but don’t want to work for it. I get tired of hearing the supposed IU fans/graduates crying all the time. Grow up and back your school teams no matter what!! Tsao TsuG understands what it really means to be a TRUE IU athlete, and the coaches it takes to get the job done. Coach Kevin Wilson will turn this program around, because he will find the kids that truly want to be IU PLAYERS.

  30. I know I shouldn’t respond, but…

    OldFartHoosier – you are like arguing with a woman (maybe you are, I guess there’s a 50/50 shot) your points are based on emotions and conjecture. I am simply pointing out facts.

    We have no idea how Alford would have done had he been here over the last decade. I agree that IU wouldn’t have gotten into the mess with the NCAA, but beyond that it’s all conjecture. Not that I would be upset we hired him, he’s one of my childhood heroes. Keith Smart is another Hoosier with coaching pedigree… But for the issue at hand you are wrong that nobondy thought Sampson would be hired. It all happened pretty quickly, but he had a great track record at Oklahoma, was a 2-time national coach of the year, and had a history with several national teams. I also contend that what he got busted for – impermissable phone calls and texts – is fairly minor in the grand scheme of things, and the NCAA has admitted as much lately. There were lots of IU fans who were excited when he got hired.

    The most ridiculous point you keep coming back to is the “hasn’t won anything” argument. So the only good coaches, and deserving of IU’s attention, are the ones that have won NCAA titles? So here is the list we could have chosen from in 2008 -(Alford, of course), Coach K, Roy Williams, Calhoun, Donovan, Boeheim, Izzo, Pitino, Fisher, and Tubby Smith. So, just in case it isn’t obvious I’ll tell you what’s wrong with this grooup. The first 7 wouldn’t leave their situations in 2008, and the last 3 would never have be accepted at IU. So you have 10 coaches that meet your standard, but the only one that would have come to IU in 2008 is (maybe) Alford… who, wait for it… “hasn’t won anything”.

    You say you think IU could have done better than Crean in 2008. I am still waiting to hear a name that meets your criteria… What coaches with great resumes were clamoring to get out of cushy jobs for a chance to start from scratch at IU, with a NCAA investigation still in the works, an uncertain recruiting future, and only one returning walk-on on the roster?

    Please, oh knowledgeable one, grace us with your candidates…

  31. i think it’s a 50/50 shot OldSchoolHoosier is actually a Purdue woman. Of course, every time you see a Purdue woman it’s a coin flip.

  32. Steve Alford would have been my choice…but no way he would have came here.Again..nobody thought Sampson would have been hired at IU..he has been in trouble with the NCAA..automatic that IU would not even talk to him…oops…I happen to be with a former IU player when it was announced he got the job…Ted Kietchel at a golf outing and he was totally surprised..and his exact comment was..”I wouldn’t let him coach my 7th grade girl’s team” he is a cheater.There are a number of coaches who would have been better…Greenspan promised Randy Wittman an interview…never even called him back..Keith Smart….Dane Fife…list goes on.Bottom line is Herbert wanted Sampson…and I think you know for what reason…if you don’t then your dumber than I thought.Alford was the only choice IU could have made that would have kept this team going…but I doubt he would have taken it anyway.Alford would have gotten a call from Coach Knight not to take the job…and that would have been it.Crean will never win big at IU.He coach’s no defense and offense in awful.He will get good player’s to come here..he is a good recruiter…but you have to be able to coach to win.Everybody think’s IU will be better this year…and I hope we are…can’t wait to get back to the NCAA…but we will not be much better this year..maybe at best 14-16 win’s…no NCAA and no NIT.Zeller will help…but who will help him??Remember…we have verbal commit’s….just like Kiel…verbal mean’s nothing these kid’s today are smart enough to see who can coach and who cannot.If they have a choice bewteen IU..KY..NC..MICH.ST..where do you think they will go??Again Crean has won nothing…River’s was abust…Pritchard a bust..Watford well below avg…Crean will not get the chance…if IU don’t win this year..he won’t be here next year..it take’s 20 win’s to keep his job this year.

  33. I don’t think he’s a Purdue woman. I was playing ultimate frisbeee with Michael Jordan and he assured me that NoSchoolHoosier was a slow witted 7th grader.

  34. I’ve been quite concerned about constant and eroding negative commentary that seems to seep into some of the tone of the commentary.

    Some of it may be the disappointment in the season and, now, the disappointment in Gunner Kiel’s decision. That’s understandable in IU fans who’s have suffered a long history of frustration. But, to translate that into a rabid, bitter and spiteful negativity but masochitically destructive.

    Yesterday, we lost to Iowa in a game marked by some good performances and some embarrassing errors in others. To boot, the pattern repeats itself too frequently.

    But, the frightening negativity is not just a post-game phenomenon. It sometimes seems it is soaked into the environment of Hoosier commentary, the press coverage and the reaction of some of the most ardent fans. Take that loss to Iowa yesterday. Our offense, which was largely absent the previous week- especially the passing game,- was very improved.

    Yet, despite Tre Roberson’s very good performance at quarterback , the marked improvement of the receivers, the continued good and competitive performance of the running game and, at times, the offensive line’s blocking by some of the offensive linesmen; the after-game commentary diminishes the accomplishments with a commentary that is not really a comment about the game performance but a suggestion that if a high school prospect GK- the hoped for and temporarily designated saviour- enrolled at Indiana, a head-to-head competition for the QB job is unlikely. Consider the lead:

    “Though the prospect of Roberson being Indiana’s quarterback of the future became a lot more real when Kiel announced the re-evaluation of his commitment on Friday, Indiana…”

    In other words, IF Kiel does not enroll, THEN Roberson (or DK or EWB) has a chance. It lends itself to a ‘Western Civilization as we know it is over’ interpretation that colored the particularly embittered tone to yesterday’s and today’s postings. It even extends the tone to ‘what ifs’ about basketball.

    The degree to which IU pundits and fans- desperate for a football messiah- put Kiel on a pedestal and awarded him ‘Hoosier Player of the Century’ status before the end of his senior year at Coumbus East high school; and, the tone of Western Civilization, As We Know It, is over, is absurd.The image of the reaction reminded me of the pictures I saw of Saddam Hussein’s huge statue being pulled down by Baghdad residents themselves as US forces moved into Baghdad (put a guard around The Rock?).

    Is it natural to assume or automatically concede the QB slot to Gunner over TR, EWB or, for that matter, his brother Dusty? I don’t think Dusty’s parents themselves would hold that view. GK is an excellent high school prospect but right now nothing more than one of Mr. and Mrs Kiels obviously talented and well raised children. We are exaggerating his iconic status while demeaning other player’s potential and the coaching staff’s to coach them.

    The removal of BL as head coach at IU was best. He had he had a good offensive mind but his defensive approach was self-defeating. I hoped he would do the same thing that Ron Zook did at Illinois (though he’s one of my least favorite). When faced with ‘make changes or else’ he opted to make necessary changes in his staff to save the program, resulting in a good football team that represents its fans with effort, solid play and dignity. BL confused his loyalties and failed to correct glaring deficiencies with the Hoosiers.

    I believe AD Glass saw the dilemma clearly. He fired Lynch nad brought in a top, experienced assistant with a reputation for developing fundamental skills,- IU will not recruit that many ‘ready made ‘four-star plus players-, a strong sense of demanding character and accountability, combined with a very developed strategic and tactical vision. AD Glass (see Dopirak coverage) ‘discovered’ Kevin Wilson. It was and is the right choice. Not only for the possibility that the record would change, but because it will also fundamentally change an atmosphere of “soft” that over the years has pervaded the entire program, including us fans.

    I had no expectation of winning this year. I don’t know why anyone who knows anything about college football at its top level would be so innocent as to think it would happen. However, I did expect exactly what we are getting. I did expect to see a gradual though uneven improvement into solid play. There is not doubt I am seeing it, especially in the area of mental approach by those in the program. Defenders (especially on the line, the linebackers) sometimes look like other, better defenses…only not consistently enough. Time and repetition is the only thing that makes for consistency.

    More and more, at times, the offensive line looks like it can open holes through tough, technically sound blocking. Receivers seem talented and appear expected (by the coaches) to focus on becoming good receivers equal to their native talent. A couple of the defensive backs (consistently our shredded Achilles heel) have shown some sign of turning talent into skill (i.e. Heban).

    But, it is evident we simply we do not have enough of them, without big drop-offs in the depth charge. I also understand that when you start freshman and sophomores in the Big Ten, you’re going to pay a price. And, we are. But, week to week I see improvement, the Hoosiers look like ‘real players’ and it is obvious the players are expecting more themselves, are being held accountable, and, and are evaluated with integrity. And, those who don’t understand this new environment are slowly deciding football at this level may not be for them. In the end, in football, no one can be chased away. They are simply discovering that, for them, football asks too much.

    The same is true of the fans. I worry about those who sound hysterical, superficial, self-obsessed and respond only with the empty pessimism in “I wanna win!” It’s not going to be enough. Perhaps football is too hard on those who thought that ‘commitments’ or ‘decommitments’ are “proof of success (or failure) at a level never before reached.”

  35. HforH. I’m glad you’re sticking around but if you decide to keep that screen name you kinda being a jerk. Just sayin’.

  36. RE-EDITED
    (Sorry I was editing and pushed submit by accident. This version is in English)

    I’ve been quite concerned about constant and eroding negative commentary that seems to seep into some of the tone of the posts.

    Some of it may be the disappointment in the season and, now, in Gunner Kiel’s decision. That’s understandable in IU fans who’s have suffered a long history of frustration. But, to translate that into rabid, bitter and spiteful negativity masochistically destructive self-loathing proposes nothing.

    Yesterday, we lost to Iowa in a game marked by some good performances and some embarrassing errors. To boot, the pattern repeats itself too frequently.

    But, the frightening negativity is not just a post-game phenomenon. It sometimes seems it is soaked into the environment of Hoosier commentary, the press coverage and the reaction of some of the most ardent fans. Take that loss to Iowa yesterday. Our offense, which was largely absent the previous week- especially the passing game,- was very improved.

    Yet, despite Tre Roberson’s very good performance at quarterback , the marked improvement of the receivers, the continued good and competitive performance of the running game and, at times, the offensive line’s blocking; the after-game commentary diminished the accomplishments with a commentary that is not really a comment about the game but a suggestion that if a high school prospect GK- the hoped for and temporarily designated saviour- enrolled at Indiana, a head-to-head competition for the QB job is unlikely. Consider the lead:

    “Though the prospect of Roberson being Indiana’s quarterback of the future became a lot more real when Kiel announced the re-evaluation of his commitment on Friday, Indiana…”

    In other words, IF Kiel does not enroll, THEN Roberson (or DK or EWB) has a chance. It lends itself to a ‘Western Civilization As We Know It Is Over’ interpretation that colored the particularly embittered tone to yesterday’s and today’s postings. It even extended the tone to ‘what ifs’ about basketball.

    The degree to which IU pundits and fans- desperate for a football messiah- put Kiel on a pedestal and awarded him ‘Hoosier Player of the Century’ status before the end of his senior year at Coumbus East high school; and, the tone, is absurd.The image of the reaction reminded me of the pictures I saw of Saddam Hussein’s huge statue being pulled down by Baghdad residents themselves as US forces moved into Baghdad (put a guard around The Rock?).

    Is it natural to assume or automatically concede the QB slot to Gunner over TR, EWB or, for that matter, his brother Dusty? I don’t think Dusty’s parents themselves would hold that view. GK is an excellent high school prospect but right now nothing more than one of Mr. and Mrs Kiels obviously talented and well raised children. We are exaggerating his iconic status while demeaning other player’s potential and the coaching staff’s to coach them.

    The removal of BL as head coach at IU was best. He had a good offensive mind but his defensive approach was self-defeating. I hoped he would do the same thing that Ron Zook did at Illinois (though he’s one of my least favorite). When faced with ‘make changes or else’ he opted to make necessary changes in his staff to save the program, resulting in a good football team that represents its fans with effort, solid play and dignity. BL confused his loyalties and failed to correct glaring deficiencies with the Hoosiers.

    I believe AD Glass saw the dilemma clearly. He fired Lynch nad brought in a top, experienced assistant with a reputation for developing fundamental skills,- IU will not recruit that many ‘ready made ‘four-star plus players-, a strong sense of demanding character and accountability, combined with a very developed strategic and tactical vision. AD Glass (see Dopirak coverage) ‘discovered’ Kevin Wilson. It was and is the right choice. Not only for the possibility that the record would change, but because it will also fundamentally change an atmosphere of “soft” that over the years has pervaded the entire program, including us fans.

    I had no expectation of winning this year. I don’t know why anyone who knows anything about college football at its top level would be so innocent as to think it would happen. However, I did expect exactly what we are getting. I did expect to see a gradual though uneven improvement into solid play. There is not doubt I am seeing it, especially in the area of mental approach by those in the program. Defenders (especially on the line, the linebackers) sometimes look like other, better defenses…only not consistently enough. Time and repetition is the only thing that makes for consistency.

    More and more, at times, the offensive line looks like it can open holes through tough, technically sound blocking. Receivers seem talented and appear expected (by the coaches) to focus on becoming good receivers equal to their native talent. A couple of the defensive backs (consistently our shredded Achilles heel) have shown some sign of turning talent into skill (i.e. Heban).

    But, it is evident we simply do not have enough of them, without big drop-offs in the depth chart. I also understand that when you start freshman and sophomores in the Big Ten, you’re going to pay a price. And, we are. But, week to week I see improvement, the Hoosiers look like ‘real players’ and it is obvious the players are expecting more of themselves, are being held accountable, and, and are evaluated with integrity. And, those who don’t understand this new environment are slowly deciding football at this level may not be for them. In the end, in football, no one can be chased away. They are simply discovering that, for them, football asks too much.

    The same is true of the fans. I worry about those who sound hysterical, superficial, self-obsessed and respond only with the empty pessimism in “I wanna win!” It’s not going to be enough. Perhaps football is too hard on those who thought that ‘commitments’ or ‘decommitments’ are “proof of success (or failure) at a level never before reached.”

  37. This is good stuff Oldfart. It seems you have the inside track on all this… HA!

    I love the name-dropping. Keitch a good golfer?

    Not sure where you were going with the Herbert/Sampson thing. I guess I’m really dumb. Maybe you can explain it to those of us who don’t have all the ex-players on speed dial.

    I love the list you gave, absolutely hilarious. So when you said “he’s never won anything” you meant that he didn’t play at IU… Gotcha. Because not a single person you listed has a better coaching resume than Crean or won a damn thing as a coach.

    I know that Knight was able to get great results out of lesser talent than other coaches, but that is pretty rare. Most successful teams are either ridiculously talented or have great chemistry in the right system over several years. Crean took a team with DWade on it to the Final Four. He won 25 games his last year in the Big East. Once he gets talent he has a track record of being able to win with it. Again there are only 9 active coaches that have won NCAA tournaments, so sometimes you have to look at other metrics to say if he’s a winner or not.

    I don’t think Crean is a god by any means, but he is getting very good players to come IU and rebuilding the program. Not sure why you don’t think the verbal commits for the bball team won’t be coming. It’s a little different than the football situation – to use your favorite saying, if you can’t see that your dumb. However, if Crean gets to 18 wins this year and guys like you call for his head and he gets fired, well then there will be a pretty good chance that a lot of those recruits will reconsider.

    Not sure how many coaches that “have ever won anything” will be clamoring to come to IU if we fire a guy that brings in the type of recruiting classes Crean has and increased the teams wins every year he was there, all while doing it with integrity and graduating players. Seems like a really sweet situation. You mean if I recruit well and win more I can have the chance to get fired too?! Where do I sign up?

    Classic! You’re a wishy-washy bozo.

    What EVIDENCE do you have that Alford, Wittman, Fife, etc would recruit better or have this team perform better than Crean has? Alford had 30 wins ONCE, not twice. He didn’t beat SDSU last year – the year they were in the top 10. His 30 wins came against competition that for the most part isn’t close to the Big East. Since he has been coaching at the high-major level Alford has never taken a team beyond the 2nd round of the tournament. Furthermore, Alford would be recruiting kids that weren’t even born when he played for IU, so I am not sure how revered he would be with them. Sure we love him, but how well do the kids today even really know him, or respect him? I’m sure half of the top recurits out there are like, “isn’t he that little white dude that could shoot? Did he play with Jordan on the Bulls? No that was Steve Kerr…”

    I won’t go into Fife or Wittman or Smart’s resume because they all fall below Alford’s.

    Bottom line, you named a bunch of guys who haven’t done as much at as high a level as Crean. I won’t sit here and say that none or all them would be better than Crean, but for you to act like you DO know is a riot. So far here are the points you have tried to make:

    1. Crean has never won anything.
    – ok, but he had a higher winnng % and gone further in the NCAA tourny when they hired him than any of the guys you mentioned.
    2. He is a good recruiter, but you have to be able to coach to win.
    – he has proven he can win with talented players as evidenced by a Final Four appearance and 3 consecutive 20+ win seasons and NCAAs when Marquette moved to the Big East.
    3. His recruits so far have been busts
    – I’m sorry were Rivers and Pritchard big time recruits? What planet was that on? Rivers was a back-up guard for Georgetown… Pritch was a fat, unathletic, undersized post player. Watford is “well below average?!” Hmmmm, he came onto a team with no veterans and no established system. He has had one talented scorer to take pressure off him for only half a season in Creek, so for his entire career defenses have been geared to limit him without having to worry about much else. He averaged 16 and 5 last year, which was far above average for Big Ten starters. Not sure what more you’re expecting out of a guy who has little help and wasn’t a McDonalds All-American.

    Just about every point you make is either blatantly false, complete conjecture, or bizarre opinion.

    I can’t wait to hear what you have next. I find clowns very entertaining. Some people find them creepy, but I think you’re funny.

  38. HH. I have a possible solution to comply with Chet’s legitimate request. I also think it;s great to have you here…but the term ‘hillbillies’ makes me self conscious of some of my family’s background.

    So…how about Harvard in the Hills, Harvard on the Jordan, or HarvardHills. Just friends asking for a favor. (And assuming that the BlogSite will allow the change which I’m not sure about).

  39. It’s interesting that people with excellent basketball resumes who do absolutely nothing else but cover college basketball and are paid huge sums of money to do so think that CTC was an excellent hire and will be a great Hoosier coach. Whereas, NoSchoolHoosier, who may or may not be employable in any field, is willing to come on here as make asinine posts about what a dismal hire he was and claiming an historically mediocre mid major coach would be some sort of God send.
    Using your logic, if you needed surgery you would pass over the the highly respected, highly recommended, surgeon with the great outcome history and go to some hack because he went to the local medical school.

    Actually, you probably would.

  40. HforH, I live in Appalachia. My mom was the oldest of 14 eastern Kentucky siblings and the only one to attend formal school. Trust me when I tell you that Monroe County is nearly urbane as compared to many places I have experienced. TTG had some excellent suggestions. Welcome aboard. Glad to have you here and keep on posting. You seem to be paying attention.

  41. Podunker, Jay Gregg…ref TuShay…read closely, you’ll recognize the unmistakable statement structure and verbage. It begins with, “I’m not trying to do anyone harm,” as the scalpel is innocently driven in; and emphasizes a supportive purpose, ” I just want to help,” while continuing to claim expertise while an attempt to shake the rug out from under the object (Coach Wilson, similarly with others) while the rug is shaken; continues with the innuendo, a “but, I’ve heard and seen things and know people” followed by “rumor” as the slicing goes on to end with a statement of love for fellow man and sincere purpose. Podunker, Jay Gregg you slayed the dragon with your question about ‘sources’ and intention.

    TuShay, welcome back son, how you doing man?.

  42. BTW, I don’t pretend to know the ins-and-outs of the IU Football situation, but I thought I would apply a little of my common sense to the coaching criticism.

    It seems this Wilson guy is a pretty decent coach. He has experience at some top programs, so he understands the type of atmosphere and commitment it takes to be great. He won the freakin Broyles Award in 2008 as the top assistant coach in the country. He has coached and recruited some of the most talented offensive players in the country under Stoops at Oklahoma.

    Indiana has ZERO football tradition. The Highlight of my IU football experience has been the All-American Bowl back in the 80’s. Just who do these weirdos like OldFartHoosier think is going to come to IU? Stoops? Spurrier? Maybe if they pray reeeeaaalllll hard then Dungy will come to Bloomington. I heard Tressel is out of a job…

    The panel of decision makers at IU has essentially three options when identifying candidates:
    1. re-treads who haven’t succeeded at the D1 level.
    2. successful D1-AA or D2 coaches
    3. take a chance on a hot-shot assistant from a big-time program that has no head coaching experience

    So why are some people pissed that Wilson hasn’t won yet? NEWSFLASH – he is taking kids he didn’t recruit, who haven’t won at this level, and teaching them a new system, under a completely new set of coaches – that is not a recipe for immediate success!

    Pretty sure I have identified a big part of the problem with IU football… many of the most vocal “supporters” are unrealistic whackos.

  43. Geoff….bing!!! The worse thing is that you can get rid of bad coaches or players or even administrators but you can’t get rid of bad ‘supporters’…whenever you turn off the light they start coming out from under the stove and the corners. With blogs like this we can try to keep the light on.

    Tommy….I guess the only way they found is to win so much and develop such a good reputation, the only way the Sooners were able to get rid of him was to have a Big Ten school get smart and offer him a job worthy of his talent. Now that was a major step in we Hoosiers ‘growing up’ to be like the big guys.

  44. When you’re 1-7, you have no choice but common sense. Hoosier football fans have been used to many decades of common sense. Sometimes so much common sense they have to write 1,000 words a day on a blog to reaffirm there is still a pulse to be found. When Wilson took the job there was nothing but raw emotion. Wasn’t it wonderful? Wow…What a shot of adrenalin when he first stepped off the plane with his family. I was almost floating off the ground of reason. The billboards with Wilson’s “let’s get down to the business of winning” facial expression plastered all over town sucked up the last droplets of rational expectations right out of my gigantic common sense tank. Did I tell you guys that I emotionally lost myself once at a Holiday Bowl? The game even ended with complete lack of common sense — I think we won.

    Now it’s back to pancakes, Cheetos, and the recliner I like to put up my common sense dogs when not on the blogs. Time to winter’s nap and fattening up on pigskin patience…I feel like snuggling up to my common sense crimson blanket. I’m suddenly having a craving for a bacon and egg sandwich on common sense wheat toast before I take that nap. Has anyone told you Harvard grads that “Common sense today!” is a virtue?

  45. Usually I’m pretty good at figuring out the meaning of such blather, but in this case HforH, I have no idea what you’re trying to say. Probably way over my head…

    It sorta feels like you’re taking a sarcastic shot at me, which is fine. It doesn’t really change situation on the field. To be honest, I don’t really follow IU football all that much. My passion is basketball. I was excited about Kiel like everyone else, so I wound up over in the football portion of the site.

    Not that you or anyone else cares or thinks it makes me an expert on anything, but I have coached several years of all 3 seasons of HS sports and basketball at the college level. I have changed schools 3 times, in the process getting a new set of kids. I have seen lots of coaches change schools and have a sense of what that means. I had 2 different college basketball coaches and know what its like to have to play for a new staff and undergo a complete system overhaul in the middle of your playing career…

    If it’s one thing all those situations have taught me it’s that cohesion and success generally take a little time. That is doubly true when the situation has been a losing one. Not only do you have to get everyone on the same page, but you have to turn around a culture.

    There hasn’t been a single coach in the last 60 years that has left IU with a winning record!

    Now I don’t know the background of every one of those coaches, but I know that Wilson is a little different than all of the coaches that I can remember. If you go up to my 3 categories in the former post I’ll break it down:

    Mallory (1) – was a good coach, but didn’t have much success at Colorado going 0-2 in bowl games. Certainly not a program savior, but his best coaching was done at IU.

    Cameron (3) – he didn’t have any head coaching experience, but his primary coordinating experience was at the NFL level, which is an entirely different beast than NCAA.

    DiNardo (1) – wasn’t good at Vandy and then ran a good LSU program into the ground before failing at IU.

    Hoeppner (2) – Rest In Peace…

    Lynch (2) – was up and down at a lower level of competition, so it isn’t really a surprise he wasn’t successful at IU.

    So the recent history of IU coaches is a completely different animal than Wilson. I (and you) have no idea whether or not he’ll succeed here, but I absolutely know one thing. If “supporters” keep pressuring the powers-that-be at IU to fire coaches after not winning for half a season, or even one, two or three years, then the cycle of losing will continue forever. You simply can’t keep asking mediocre or inexperienced coaches to take players they didn’t recruit and haven’t won consistently and turn them into Big Ten contenders right off the bat. And there is no way that IU can attract a high profile coach when the program is in the condition it is.

    Give Wilson a window of time to succeed. Allow him to recruit players that work for his system. Allow him to fail or succeed with those players and then form your opinion on whether or not he is any good.

    I can guarantee you that there isn’t a single school in the country that thinks IU knows what its doing when it comes to hiring and firing football coaches. Some program will come along and scoop this guy up if we let him go and actually give him a shot, and wouldn’t we be stupid if he became a top coach.

    Honestly “supporters”, you have been losing your entire lifetime with re-treads and lower-level coaches, what is another couple years to see if a new type of coach can turn things around?

  46. Completely agree with you Geoff. Completely and think it needed to be said. The only qualification I have is that I think that most ‘good’ participants in this blog share your view and fully support the idea that Coach Wilson is empoered to coach the program as he sees fit and will continue to do so for a minimum of three or four years before most of us look at the ‘bottom line wins and losses’ side of the ledger. Certainly I would join you (I think there are several others) in disgust if IU administrators even consider interfering with his development of the program inside that window.

    And, as I have said before. KW’s task is to change the program, change the team culture and change the culture that has hosted the losing virus at IU.

    Thanks for your observations. Very specific and concrete. They provide a valuable way to think about the history, the present and what is taking place.

  47. The only thing concrete here is the assumption that the more said is equated to more truth. If you can’t JPat beat ’em, then by God, TTG join ’em. Needed to be said. And I think most good participants on this blog gave up and stuck their tired heads between their legs instead.

    I find very little purpose in arguments that attempt to suggest Wilson’s predecessors came from “lower level” programs and thus their fate at a big time football program like IU was predetermined failure. The attitude of backing a bus back over previous coaches departed, making rather trivial and insignificant the dedicated chunks of their lifetimes on the same field Wilson now gives his same honest effort, unveils an inherent set of prejudice that has been in the eyes of the “supporter” since very beginning glances at IU football.

    Now casual common sense and patience replaces the passion and belief(heaven forbid, some womanly emotion?) that could have been invested in the team and the labeled “losers” that came from schools that should seen resumes thrown in garbage cans when they arrived at the AD’s office? The belief seems rather empty when it concludes pedigree should be its only concrete foundation for support. When you hire a head coach from a lowlife place(e.g.Ball State, Harvard for Hillibillies guy looking for a job at OSU?), everyday on the sideline is one too many for support of his opportunity? I give credit to Wilson for taking such an enormous risk. But is there really much at stake when financial comfort is guaranteed in the insurance policy of million dollar salaries no matter the results? If all the support in the Hoosier world still finds him short of our expectations, he shall leave here with no less money all the same labels that your common sense theories crumble.

  48. HforH – your commentary is far too convoluted to make any kind of sense here… although the last pun was decent. I am not “suggesting” anything. I am pointing out historical fact. I didn’t “suggest” that anyone’s outcomes were foregone conclusions, only that this hire is different from past hires, so how about giving something a little different a chance… especially when the same ‘ol-same ‘ol hasn’t seemed to work.

    Passion and common sense can coexist, although it is more difficult under difficult circumstances. Be passionate about the future, because common sense says that an immediate turn-around is impossible.

    See how easy it is to state things in a simple manner. Pretty sure everyone who reads this will understand my point. I don’t think anyone who reads yours can decipher whether they even agree with you or not.

  49. oh and by the way HforH, you seem to be “suggesting” that I am not making truthful points. If you can, in NON-Shakespearian English, point out a false statement I have made in my above posts I would love to hear it…

    Unlike some of the posters I have addressed in my comments, I always research my statements. I don’t just spout opinions. I believe opinions are fairly worthless unless there is some critical thinking and evidence behind them.

    So, without using 6 adverbs per sentence, can you point out one false piece of information I have communicated.

  50. Of course passion and common sense can coexist. I wish they could have coexisted for my wife when she agreed to marry me(You had one sexist remark so if figured no harm in countering with one of my own).

    I guess that’s the whole point. If it is now argued that the previous hires were not common sense hires, were you feeling a passion to support them at the time they came to IU? How long did the passion last? If the “supporters” take those preconceived notions to the streets, could it infect the mindset of potential recruits? Were you assuming they were the “same ‘ol same ‘ol since they had no pedigree? Was it fair to assume they were the “same ol’ same ol” simply because they didn’t come with some form of association to what is considered a big time football school? You seem to be very driven to label Wilson as something different than the men that were entrusted to try and turn IU football around in years past. That’s fine. Will your conviction in those facts alone give him anymore shot at success when it doesn’t address the myriad of variables you’re leaving out of the equation?

    I hope Wilson is the guy that changes football history at IU. If he doesn’t turn things around in 3 or 4 years…if he can’t gradually convince the better quality cream of the recruiting crop to come and play college football at IU, I think it would be no less simplistic to lump him in with the previous lowlife losers with claims he has no coaching ability. There are challenges here that I doubt anyone taking the job can begin to fathom. They have always been here. The biggest challenge just smacked Wilson in his pedigree nose when Gunner concluded the golden dome of ND may smell more like a true Indiana rose.

  51. Aaaahhh, I figured it out. You are under the impression I favor Wilson to the previous hires… untrue. I am simply stating that he is different from previous hires. I am showing, through historical fact, that the other types of hires haven’t had much, if any, success. And I am stating that Wilson (or any coach) should be given a fair shot. I could care less about pedigree – would actually prefer a guy with a great track record at a Butler to a guy who couldn’t get it done at a big school. I think it is a risk to hire a guy without head coaching experience.

    The ENTIRE point is that IU HAS to take a risk when hiring a coach because of the state of the program, not that Wilson is a preferable hire to any of the others. Now that the risk has been taken, the fan base should give him a reasonable opportunity to succeed.

    So are we on the same page here or what?

    Was your wife showing common sense or passion?

    Sexist remarks are welcome… I am happily married, and 50% of my household thinks they are funny.

  52. I’m still not sure how much risk is involved in taking the IU football job. I’m still not sure if bottom-dwelling for so many years attracts risk-takers or snake oil salesmen. We sure hear a lot about culture in both our major sports at IU. Return to the old culture…change the existing culture…instill a new culture. I’m likely in a different camp on this one, but the message begins to sound disingenuous to my ears…Honor isn’t usually served on words.

    You had good points about Wilson being a different type of hire…I hate to be the cynic, but I sort of believe the uniqueness of the new coach gets somewhat evaporated, lost in the advertising and promises, when so much horn blowing is done over how much better the next guy is going to be from the last. Coaches begin to sound like politicians. Bloggers begin to sound like campaign managers…I think it’s all rather strange. I guess I’m just more of a players’ fan..I would much rather campaign and sing praises to players than coaches. At the end of the day, the plethora of soundbites and billboards full of promises blurs from distinction any guys claiming to be different. With each new face comes pretty much the same old sell job.

    Yes, coach Wilson needs our full support and patient devotion. Thus far, I like the man. Not that he cares what some convoluted blogger thinks. But lets not forget that loyalty is a two way street. I don’t really know what makes this guy tick. I can only hope his heart is truly in the job at hand. We’ve seen so much corruption in the world of college athletics, it’s no surprise many fans have become somewhat cynical of program saviors. When you label people as non-supporters, I think it disregards the current climate that influences such skepticism and cynicism.

  53. HforH – I clearly stated that IU took a risk… not Wilson. So not sure how you came up with that first paragraph. I feel like my posts are very straight-forward, and in plain english, but you keep trying to read between the lines and coming up with arguments to points I haven’t made, or find some alternative meaning to my posts that fits your need for contrarianism…

    Read more carefully, because I love a good debate, but I can’t continue debating someone who is so far off point.

  54. My apologies for unintentionally twisting your risk analysis from the university’s perspective back to the coach’s side of the ledger.

    I don’t think IU took any risk on Wilson that they couldn’t afford to take. I think your analysis concluded the other choices had been made before and thus a new perspective may be just the right medicine this crucial hour our football legitimacy. Unfortunately, coaching changes are most often moves of desperation and that removes from choices many more optimal options that hinders the crucial hour being all that crucial. I don’t think IU football has been in a position to hold the power at a bargaining table. We get what one or two decent wins a year can bring.

    That’s why I think the question of risk as it applies to Wilson may be far more interesting. I don’t think it needs 10,000 words of debate anymore than a bit of quiet contemplation while taking a nap in the sun of the OSU game. In the impulse and erratic nature my instincts, I probably thought it was the more interesting of the choices. How much career risk do you think Wilson is taking? The hoopla has been quelled a bit by the dismal start…As you have said, it’s not his recruits, so I guess it’s not too difficult to now rest our feet up in JPat’s recliner and claim patience is the order of the day..We are right back in the ol’ same chair that deflects the blame to the guy ousted that was your ol’ same. That’s now kinda boring news to me. Who cares? A more interesting contemplation is how many embarrassments on the field of nationally televised games does it take to make Wilson’s risk a far more dangerous one than IU’s? The viewing public(which includes not only fans fair weather and a few true like you, but also recruits on fences assessing their own risk) isn’t always watching the debacle on the field with any concern where responsibility rests for such ugly performances.

    I doubt most viewers stayed with the IU vs Wisconsin game through the conclusion of one quarter. I doubt most will rationalize the ugliness of one team completely outmatched by another with such wonderful sets of historical facts, unbiased intent, and rational thinking you have demonstrated on a Hoosier sports blog visited by 5 Harvard theologians in love with the hills of B-town, a convoluted contrarian, a couple clairvoyants, and a witty Willy Wonka Pollyanna Clarion. Most just shrug their shoulders at the blowout, turn the channel, and conclude nothing has changed at IU.

    There is the risk and the reason at Indiana we have to jump like a fly on sh** when anyone associated, in any coaching capacity, a perennial big time football power answers your desperate phone call. That’s where you’re at after 30+ years of primarily losing football in a major conference. I don’t think any act of genius was involved on the part of an administration that was looking for a guy that avoided falling into Geoff’s very smartly designed categorizations of warn out re-treads, D1-AA Beavises, and mediocre mid-major Butt-heads. Facts don’t matter much when an Oklahoma guy says he wants to bring football to a football graveyard.

  55. H4H, At this point you should forgo your criticism of TTG’s treatises. The only difference seems to be the tenor of writing and the occasional need for a cryptographer.

    All contributions (well, most contributions) are welcome, though.

  56. Chet-

    You’re a good man. My contributions are barely unsinkable Titanic thoughts while resting at the bottom of Tsao’s ocean. That Clarion dude is like an iceberg…head of lettuce.

  57. H4H, For your information IU’s AD Glass hired sports personnel consultant Chuck Neinas for his insight as to who would be good possibilities for FB’s HC at IU. No act of desperation. One of the names highest on his list was OC Kevin Wilson. The rest is history. Before you downplay Neinas or the fee paid by IU, it might be beneficial to research Neinas Sports Services.

  58. And Wilson didn’t hang up the red phone and the rest is fly on sh** history. Yippee. You just sunk another ship with your cold facts and calculating iceberg wit. What the hell, Clarion…? And we picked Crean with the Caddyshack Committee..Why would any administrative leader in this university want sole responsibility on his shoulders for the new hire? It’s not like it’s been smooth sailing around here and full steam ahead. Do you just wait around at the “Submit Comment” coffee station all day? Get productive. Let me have one second in the false moonlight my idle delusions? Is that o.k.? I doubt you’ll melt. You’re too big a floating object around here….I’m just passing through the night with no lifeboat a friendly friend.

  59. …and I don’t think I’ve ever claimed I’m even Kiel. That was a joke, Mr. Berg.

  60. bizarre…

    And now back with the Crean comments. It has come full circle. Not going to re-debate anything. Analysis laid out. back to the basketball site. see you guys over there.

  61. I’m not sure where you are getting your info, but good topic. I needs to spend some time learning much more or understanding more. Thanks for magnificent information I was looking for this information for my mission.

  62. I think that AD Glass guarded against the quick-hook mentality by giving Coach Wilson the 7 years. Unless IU is absolutely horrible after 4 or 5 years, I don’t see how we can justify firing him and eating the contract if there is any type of progression in the program.

    I think that the AD has been the best hire for IU Athletics in years. Not only does he have the passion and understanding of an IU Alum, he has a track record in dealing with sports issues, from his work up in Indianapolis. His dedication to increasing the atmosphere for both football and basketball has been great for IU.

    Knowing IU’s history intimately, Glass not only made sure he could get a different level of coach in by increasing the pay options, he basically eliminated the option to fire the coach after only 2 or 3 years with the extended contract.

    IU football under Bill Lynch came to be regarded as soft- how could anyone not expect some of those type of players to bristle under a different, more hard-nosed coaching staff? Some of the new coaches simply ooze big-time football- can’t wait to see a couple years worth of their molding the players to that standard.

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