92 comments

  1. The ghost Christian Watford is wearing #2 again today. It’s 23-17 with 6 min to go in 1H. Ooops now down 8.

  2. Down 9, 3 to go 1H, still no Watford contributions. Must be his day off again for the 14th time this year.

  3. This is why Crean will NEVER win a championship of any kind at Indiana. IU is playing EXACTLY the way Crean wants – selfish NBA crap! It’s a disgrace to any player that has ever worn the uniform!

  4. Are you guys serious? It’s halftime. Back2Basics, your team lost by 14 at home against Michigan State earlier today.

  5. There is NO excuse for us to keep forcing the GD ball inside and shooting crappy shots! This POOR POOR coaching!

  6. I am the biggest IU fan and want them to win badly, but backtobasics is right, Crean has won 3 road games in 4 years. It takes mental TOUGHNESS to win on the road. Players emulate their coaches and Crean has NO TOUGHNESS and today neither does his team. That is why he will NEVER be the coach that the IU program needs. Give him a nice office job for helping turn the program around, but he flat out cannot coach and motivate his team.

  7. Yeah, I’m sorry Steve, losing is one thing, but getting ran outta the gym is another. At least we’re making it a game now, but there’s just no excuse- particularly if we think we’re a top 20 team and top 4/5 seed- to go get blown out at 13-13 Iowa. The first 5-10 minutes of the game were dedicated to us passing the ball to them and letting them and their fans believe they could win, and from then it’s been a battle, or a a**-kicking. Even if we come back to make it close or even win, there’s just no excuse to spot Iowa 20 points.

    And, yeah!!! We’re GOING to the tournament!!! No big whoop is right. I wanna see us play well, so we can do something in the tournament. And, even so, should we just quit since we’ve already acheived the lofty 20 games and NCAA tourey bid?

    Ps- Watford sucks.

  8. While I’m just as pissed as anyone, IU Fan, the whole road-loss record that has been re-iterated ad nauseam by the media is not only tired but also apples and oranges. At least the first two seasons, he may as well have been trying to win with Bloomington South’s players. And even last year, we just were not good enough to compete.

    That said, if you wanna rake ’em over the coals over this game….have at it. They played like horse**** from the start and then wilted once Iowa fans woke up and thought they could win. And they made Gatens look like an All-American. I thought the Purdue game was a turning point and we could get at least one of Iowa and Minny. Apparently not.

  9. Crean is a fine recruiter but that is it. We do not play anything close to fundamental basketball. Every time I think they have learned a lesson or two we go right back to the same old crap that made us losers under Davis and Sampson. No ball movement, no tough man-to-man defense, no designated shooters, no understanding of clock management, etc…

    We have a great shooting team that has no clue of how to set a screen and f-ing USE the screen for an open shot. This is just pi$$ poor coaching!

  10. God I am so tired of these stupid haters on this website. Did IU play awful tonight against an inferior team? Yes. Am I pissed too? Yes. But to somehow extrapolate this one loss to Crean’s entire tenure (and future time here) is ridiculous. And Laffy, since I did not have a chance to respond to you in livechat, the answer to your “But, but New Mexico beat #11 UNLV at home!!!” is “Tom Crean and IU beat #1 UK and #2 OSU at home, something not even the almighty Bob Knight could accomplish at IU, beat the #1 and #2 teams in one season.” Assuming they do not lose out and lose in the first game of the Big Ten tournament, IU will make the Big Dance, something only a handful of people on here (I was NOT included) foresaw.

  11. The thing that strikes me the most is what we had to play for. We could have been tied for 4th place in the conference, helped ourselves to insure a good seed in the NCAA Tournament and a good seed in the Big Ten Tournament and a sweep of another conference opponent who has owned us for the last 3 years. A chance to move up in the polls proving to the basketball world we are indeed worthy of the lofty ranking.Yet we had Watford, Hulls and Jones not show up. We played with no fire and just seemed to be going through the motions. I just don’t understand what kind of motivation it takes to get these guys to play like a top 20 team. To further piss me off, Etherington was taken out after maybe 3 or 4 minutes. It was obvious that our “starters” were not into the game. Why not leave Etherington and Abell in to gain some experience? There were many aspects to this game where I was simply lacking in understanding. I’m not saying Coach Crean is a bad coach, or that the starters need to be replaced, just simply don’t understand the lack of urgency with this group. A sad, pathetic example of IU basketball today.

  12. Can we play something on offense besides the dribble drive? Its fine maybe 30% of the time but this is ridiculus. Christian Watford needs screens, shots off of a pass to do well. His game isnt inside and not off the dribble. I thought that is why we needed Cody so he could play the 3? Why put Pritch in there if he isnt setting screens? He cant score so he should be screening constantly.. Lets go HOOSIERS think about it

  13. Indiana has had a great season so far…but we are sliding fast.Scored 103 against Iowa at home and 63 on the road??Crean is a good coach and great recruiter…but the one guy is right…we will never win a National Championship with him.He will not get in a player face and motivate them.Watford and Hull’s are terrible…Elston played a very good game..I bet those 2 got more minutes than Elston.Watford and Hull’s need to come off the bench along with Jones.Roth can’t play any defense at all…but he can score.VO is lost also he can hit free throws but thats about it.Zeller is doing well but having to carry this team all season is starting to wear him down.We might win a Big Ten championship or two..and average 18-22 wins a year under Crean…but will never see another Final Four…his team has no disipline and plays no defense at all.Off the subject alittle…but does anyone know the average age of Big Ten ref’s??They year in and year out are the worst in college basketball…not just when we lose…but all the time they are just horrible.Seem’s to me that they are all 55-60 year’s old..can’t keep up.Valentine and Hightower are complete idiots I don’t see how they keep there jobs.The ref that made all the bad calls tonight seems at lest 60.Oh well Indiana is better and the horrible year’s are behind us now..I think…but championships are never going to be here again.I guess we just settle in and watch KY. Duke North Carolina Kansas win more championships and get use to it.

  14. I watched this game unemotionally because I knew they would lose the whole time. After the NW game the players and Crean both talked about how they won that “big 20th game” and how it was a major accomplishment. It was the first time all season they didn’t just give the focused “one game at a time” spiel. This is a team that is better as an underdog than it is as a favorite. Spoiler alert, they will lose at Minny next Sunday as well. Hulls, Watford, Jones thanks for your combined 3 points in 65 minutes. Can they win on the road? Sure. Do they care if they do or not, nope.

  15. Yep, OldSchoolHoosier, you are right. After this one loss to Iowa, it can be determined IU will never win a national championship under Tom Crean. In fact, let’s just shut down the program. No reason to continue on with this mediocrity.

  16. Back2Basics is exactly correct…

    & “you play like you practice” so averaging 15 or more turnovers a game for 4 years is all coaching.

    Our decision making is so bad that we continuously pass up open jumpers in the lane to go ahead & drive into trouble at the basket….

    But we’re all hoping maybe Crean’s excellent recruiting will hide his coaching flaws — Go Hoosiers

  17. 60% of the time Jones and CW are on the floor together IU ends up playing 3 on 7. Jones plays bad because of poor decision making and Watford is as unreliable as last years fireworks.

  18. Stand Around…Stand Around…Stand Around…Step Slow throughout most of game….No intensity…IU was in slow motion…On the road get physical with IU this year and IU will back down….IU does not adjust, they just allow themselves to get out hustled by not that good of a team/s.

  19. So. hope we got “ugly” out of our system now. Wonder if anyone thought to check the water fountain in the locker room? Anyway on to the next game and good luck Crean and team, I’ll still be cheering for you

  20. One last comment/ question. How many players have had a career night against IU this season? It seems that every game somebody has a career night either in points, blocks, assist, or rebounds. Tonight was Gatens turn to hang on us once again.

  21. Druid: You talking about football or basketball?…IU football probably has the national record for putting someone in the heisman race for at least a week.

  22. If the head coach doesn’t act poised, under control and with composure on the sideline, how can it be expected of those who follow him?

  23. We have no offense we just dribble around we don’t pass the ball we just dribble around oh I’ve already said that. Hulls is regressing ,he gets abused on defense,makes too many mistakes.In high school Zeller used to shoot from12 to 15 feet now he just looks for dunks,Crean doesn’t use him correctly, he did have some outside skills he’s not getting to use. substitions seem to have no purpose just all of a sudden he points to someone to enter the game,I don’t think he knows why. We will never win an ncaa championship as long as he is coach, he seems to be in a trance a lot of the time, You don’t need to call every play from the sidelines how many times do you see players looking to the sidelines for his directions, way too many. We don’t play any defense the objective is to keep yourself between your man and the basket we seem to run around in circles. Oh well I’ve said enough it is what it is.

  24. What happened to the basics? No one plays defense and we stand around on offense waiting for our “NBA play” of clear out, drive and throw the ball at the basket.

    The players are running the team, while our coach paces the sidelines, not knowing what to do.

  25. The chemistry and redeveloping continuity went south when a certain player returned to the lineup. This was a different team against Purdue and Illinois. It was likely a different practicing team preparing for those contests when “he who shall not be named” was watching from the sidelines during scrimmages/workouts. The parallels to the same letdown immediately following a very inspired three game stretch last season is too similar to simply call it coincidence. We witness how the pressure strangles Crean’s decision making and hampers the effective management of more optimal and tighter rotations/substitutions. He becomes overwhelmed by a loyalty he cannot turn his back on within a system that more heavily rewards individual seniority even if it inflicts a heavy cost to what is best for the overall synergy/mindset of the team. The players pick up on the change a more guarded/reserved outlook. The Hoosiers suddenly lose focus. They don’t have the same will to compete that was evident in their faces when the coach was freed of the burden an immaculate honor to uphold. Upon this revisited burden an unwanted pessimism is released that enters into the heart of the team like lead weights inserted into the soles each of their shoes; an identity so quickly found two weeks ago just as quickly vanishes.

  26. I cannot stand to watch that kind of basketball!We are lucky that Elston,Sheehey,Cody,and Roth came to play!It’s one thing to get beat but not make any adjustments at half is inexcusable by the coach and staff as well as players!Jones and Watford are a joke!Why continue to play these clowns?They would not come off the bench anywhere else let alone play!Watford is still hitting the shot against KY ,he totally doesn’t get it there is no place for a head case other than the bench!Jones will never change,he would not be playing at Minn.Jordy continues to struggle,Dipo out of control!!!!!!!!!!!! Cody must of felt like Custer all day!Have to feel sorry for Etherington the game was over early in second half,really midway thru the first half!Why not give him a chance?I am tired of hearing he is struggling to adjust to the college game!BETTER LOOK AT SOME GAME FILM,he is not alone!Bottom line Iowa wanted it !We were beat before we got out of the bus!Once again we fail to compete,and now we have a cupcake game when we should be working on failures in the big ten!This season is not over,we are not a lock for anything but the NIT .I know we are a year ahead of where we thought we would be,but just when we take a step in the right direction we take three steps back!On the road we play not to lose instead of thinking we can win!If were losing anyways play the guys who want to be there!THE TEAM TAKES THE PERSONALITY OF THE COACH!SOFT!There has to be someone on the bench that can score 3 points with 6 turnovers!

  27. There’s no loyalty involved. It’s stupidity, cowardice and incompetence. All together. I feel bad for the guy but he simply can’t coach. First season his greatest accomplishment was the “development” of Eric Arnett who was named the Big Ten co-Pitcher of the Year and was a First Team All-Big Ten selection. What did Crean have to say about that? He said it was because Eric Arnett had practiced with the basketball team. The basketball team had practiced with the basketball team and was sucking big time but that did not matter to Crean, the fact that Arnett got to be co-Pitcher of the year was proof enough that the basketball program was indeed on the right track.

    “Never mistake intense activity for achievement.” That’s the quote Glass should have selected instead of that “Never, never, never, ever give up!” If what you do is stupid you should of course give up. Learn from your mistakes instead of claiming fake mid-season coaching awards.

    Make no mistake: Crean has no notion of loyalty. There was no loyalty in the case of Nick Williams. There was no loyalty in the case of Bawa. Crean truly believes Verdell is the embodiment of the style of play he wants to enforce upon us here at IU. Take a long look at Verdell’s play because that is the future for IU, folks.

    Meanwhile Alford is pushing very small teams forward into the national limelight, surpassing what Twenty Whines Tom can’t do at a powerhouse like Indiana. When one knows and loves basketball everything is possible. Once again: intense activity is one thing, while achievement is a bird of an entirely different feather. Enough said.

  28. Alford has always shined while coaching in the lower echelon of college BB. DIII Heartland Conference, Missouri Valley and now the MWC guarantees a successful resume. There never was any doubt.

  29. There is no question that Steve is a better than average small program coach. There is also no question that he did not win enough in the Big Ten to keep his job. While it was common knowledge he was about to be fired he did leave voluntarily for the good of the Iowa program and took a job that he was more qualified for. This is historical fact. I doubt he considered, or was considered for, the Indiana job. He is simply not a Big Ten caliber coach.

  30. I’m fine with ripping Crean for this one and for various things here and there throughout the season, although I do generally like him and he does get a pass for the first 3 years. Well, the first 2 without any questions, maybe a little scrutiny last year. I can immediately tell if someone knows basketball or is just a jackass based on what they say about the first year or two. I’m sorry, but any reasonable person knows that team couldn’t have won the 1A IHSAA tourney, yet alone consistently in the B1G.

    Regardless, coaches get too much credit when they win and too much grief when they lose. Crean can’t go out there and do it for ’em. Even if you think he’s the worst coach of all-time, I doubt Crean taught Jordy to throw some of those God-awful passes that got Iowa rolling the first few minutes. Not even trying to defend him 100%, but he can’t go out there and do it for ’em. I think the blame falls on him for allowing some of that to go on at this point in the season, but is as much or more on Hulls, Watford and a couple others. I just can’t imagine what the hell they’re thinking sometimes, especially with some of those passes early on.

  31. Before you fall in love with Alford check with the people in Iowa!He like Fife tried to emulate RMK and it did not work!You have to win ! They were not able to accomplish that.There are many coaches throughout college basketball that will give you wins,but a very select few that will give you championships!Thats the major difference.When looking at CTC’s record you have to decide for yourself what fits your needs,great recruiter,twenty wins a year,squeaky clean,pretty good so far?We are very lucky to get him!Whom else would done what he did and took beating after beating not many?Having said that,I think we will find out if championships are possible with a top 3 recruitng class soon enough,that will be the difference maker for CTC! Until then remember we lost 20 games last year didn’t win twenty!I forget that too!But until we see what we have in a couple years we have to suffer a little more,hopefully it will be worth it!RMK’s style would not work today,as great as he was he would not have done what CTC did coming in!

  32. Wisco, the passes that stood out to me were not Jordy’s but, during Iowa’s first half run, when ‘he who shall not be named’ passes directly into the hands of an Iowa player igniting a fast break. WTF was that? Except for a couple guys everybody looked slow. I’ve seen several ‘thank God for Cody’ posts but he was missing layups and even an open dunk. I admit I put the change in the tenor of play at the feet of a particular player but most of the team played poorly. Blame CTC all you want for ‘not getting them ready to play’ but he wasn’t missing layups, open threes, and free throws. As bad as the Hoosiers played, if they hit the easy shots they normally do we walk out with a win.

  33. Definitely not limited to Jordy, and maybe he doesn’t deserve to be singled out. That said, I can remember 2-3 awful passes by him the first few minutes. There were plenty of others in there too. I just thought there were a few minutes in the first ten where awful, awful turnovers and some other bad plays really got Iowa players and crowd into the game and set the tone for the game.

  34. “If the head coach doesn’t act poised, under control and with composure on the sideline, how can it be expected of those who follow him?”

    Right, because Bob Knight always held his composure.

  35. I believe JH had a pass stolen and 1 stolen dribble early on. With Jones it was multiple over multiple. Elston along with Zeller and Sheehey were the fastest IU players on the court last night. With Jones you have to paint marks on the floor to see him move. As far as TC’s substitution pattern last night what was he supposed to do when 1 starter gets in early foul trouble and 2 more never showed up to play.

  36. Wisco.
    He certainly didn’t. But RMK’s passion at least appeared to be in direct response to something that was actually happening in the arena.

    Not just a spastic “I’m going to abruptly turn and walk fast to the end of the bench, as I clap and adjust my collar, to appear confident in the decision I just made to sub in those two kids that were sitting next to each other on the bench…”

    Crean is quirky and lacks confident…always looks like he’s thinking: “my gosh I hope this works.” Knight was always pissed because he demanded perfection. I’ll take the latter.

  37. I love Jordy, I think part of the reason I’m more critical of him lately is that I expect more from him. Whether it was him, VJ3 or others, the first half was ridiculous. We made their press look fantastic.

  38. I’m all for fair criticism. I think subjective interpretation of how someone stands, sits, claps, paces, yells, doesn’t yell, etc is more worthless opinion than accurate criticism. If they were playing well and not throwing the ball to the other team, ol’ Tom could stand on his head for all I care.

  39. “Crean…..lacks confident”. You do do not have to like quirky but the thing that jumps out at you with Crean is that he is very confident. Even HS recruits would smell a lack of confidence if it were true.

  40. Claiming Tom Crean lacks confidence is the funniest thing I have ever read on the Scoop. Part of my field is analysis of language pragmatics, that is, how language is used and the non verbal aspects of its use (for example, ‘body language’). Language analysis is a hard science. I could use a video of CTC to demonstrate an array of behaviors demonstrating strong situational control.

    You don’t understand how to ‘read’ people. You’re taking what you don’t like and trying to attribute behaviors to validate your assumptions.

  41. Here’s what I believe is going on. We want to believe! No deeper passion than a Hoosier fan’s passion for the candy stripes. But, Hoosier fans are a knowing lot, we grew up with this game. Anyone under 40 grew up with an IU that was the very definition of fundamentals, defense, focused aggressiveness, team play, take care of the ball, the dribble is an overrated skills, four passes before you even think of shooting, never lose sight of the ball on D, Help on help side or die at the end of the bench.

    As fans, we can’t fool ourselves and, as much as we support the Hoosier and want to make ourselves believe, this is not good basketball and we know it and the anger posted reflects the fact that we treasure good basketball even more than winning.

    We also followed a teacher who believed in teaching to the game and in holding the students accountabile(the players and fans- no need to talk about RMK himself as far as mercurial personality and decorum goes because it is not a part of this equation). And we miss knowing that regardless, IU was respected everywhere in this country for over 20 years for the excellent basketball it played and represented.

    Today, we love our Hoosiers and bleed with every wound. We are torn between our love for the candy stripes and our love for the true “Hoosier basketball”. The man said, “It’s Indiana”. Yes it is!

    Personally, I’m from Indiana…there are no substitutes.

  42. Interesting to see some new names show up after a game like this. Not sure how many of them are just instigators or just completely lack perspective.

    That was definitely a tough game to watch. I wonder how UM and UW fans felt after they were beat by Iowa?

    Wisco seemed to be pretty level-headed about this. It was fun to watch the progression of his posts, from #10 to #45 & 46. Working thru the pain and arriving at even keel. Psych also showed his normal maturity on the topic. Most of the rest here should be embarrassed by their lack of understanding, but I’m sure they won’t.

    I only saw 2 guys play good games last night – Roth and Elston. There were a couple other guys that had their moments, but just because Zeller had decent stats that was definitely a subpar performance.

    It just looked like they exhaled after the NW game, happy to pull it out… happy to get to 20 wins… and maybe thinking about how easy they had it last time against Iowa. When you beat a team that thoroughly it can be hard to take them as seriously the next time, no matter what the coaches are stressing.

    Just another clunker… That’s all. In the mold of the last UM game, after which we re-focused and played 3 great games.

    This team is still learning to win, how to handle success, and what it means to have other teams get up for you every game. Winning breeds winning attitudes and I see that progressing every year. No reason to think that this regime can’t win B1G championships and contend for Final Fours. Shit, Davis got to a title game! He isn’t the recruiter or coach that Crean is.

  43. I would appreciate a : “Proactive Update on the status of our relationship”.

    Roth and Elston were both on their way to 20 pts each.
    Elston’s reaction to seeing someone checking in for him , as he was at the FT line, showed he wasn’t happy about coming out. I don’t know where and when the extra 8pts for Roth and 7 pts for Elston were going to come, but can’t you see who is ready to produce and who is not?
    The decision could have been made ,based on their performance, at half time, not “what if” after the game.

    On the other hand, I think I saw Sheehey pull on his jersey to signify, he wanted substitution. I understand
    maybe winded, cramp in the legs, didn’t eat right or is he cultured into the “in and out system” that is engrained
    I recall the 30+ sub statistics for most major basketball programs. I guess, I’m back to the “Warrior” and who wants to be on the court. Frazier from Penn State pulls on his jersey?

    Verdell and Watford, well their not playing well, need to play other guys. When they are playing well keep them in and when it is evident that they are not bringing it , sit them down and don’t bring them back in…… It’s been said a 100 different ways.

    The pattern of substitution {300+ posts}in our case, a “dry run” for next years talent pool? Just showing that there is enough basketballs to go around. Fellas’ as you can see from our game films, we keep moving bodies in and out “you will get playing time” This reaching example doesn’t mean anything to Etherington , Wade…et al but fill in the voids.

    Our current roster, seems to handle the “check in and out” process without tantrum’s, but load up ranked talent at the scorers table turn-style and we have a new balancing act for sure. The overall talent could shine every moment their called on, but for now, why reward minutes for bad play. Maybe next game, but not the game you prepared for and the game you are not contributing across the board. I know the other categories can be shored up for a player, did he get rebounds, did he set good screens, good feed to the post scorer..???…. and beyond.

    I don’t block time to watch Watford hit “THE WINNER” against Kentucky, nor do I do the same for when a shot really counted Keith Smart, to actually win a title.

    I do make time to watch the next game the one that is supposed to count, just because it’s the next game.

    As a fan I don’t expect 110%. When I used to over rev
    an engine on my car, red line the engine failed and broke down. I do expect seasoned healthy players to get off the bus at 80% attitude ready because it is game time and let adrenalin, pre game speech, team leadership, good walk thru, being pissed take you the added %, maybe not 100%{ perfect} but an intense level. Skill level and Category %’s reflect in the box scores, so I don’t to be an analyst and don’t need to regurgitate. There are some on this blog that know how all those numbers blend and learn from them, so what I’m saying is I don’t need to address.

    Gatens may have gotten his final tally, but I think we could have gotten our production and stayed in the game.
    We took guys out , that were in the game, maybe not the game plan, but the game.

    Jack Habaugh gave his son-law some advice {wise at the time I’m sure} for Tom Crean to be patient and not expect
    it all at once, something to that effect from the BIG TEN
    segment.
    I was told that if a coach is yelling at you, he more than likely is counting on you, if you are sitting next to the coaches, they still have the faith in you and then
    there is the end of the bench.

    “You don’t have to explain victory and you can’t explain defeat”

    Thanks for the great season, love the hell out of IU Basketball.

  44. Taso

    Wished I would have seen your post, before I rambled on… Well said.

    I got it off my chest at least.

  45. Good post +

    I would add to your Gatens statement that I dont even really think that defense was the issue last night. I mean our defense wasn’t great by any means, but it wasn’t the reason we lost the game. A lot of the discrepancy came from our inability to compete on the offensive end last night. TO’s lead to easy buckets, and rarely having to take the ball out of bounds after a score leads to a defense not getting completely set. So I would say our defense was about average despite the point total being above average.

    Gatens could have had 35 and we still coulda won if we had just had an average offensive night.

  46. Geoff,another rambling comment, your love for CTC never ceases to amaze me. Just one question why does he put efherington for one minute, that borders on insanity I don’t really think he knows what he did,I think sometimes he’s in a coma. Good coaching or bad coaching?

  47. first indiana needs to stop working on the fancy stuff and go back to fundementels ,hulls is using his lefthand to much when passing, he is not ready to shoot the ball.homedepot twisting turning throw it behind his head to much flash and not enought finish.watford needs to play hard every game, catch the ball and finish. sheehey is never ready to shoot the three when the ball comes to him, the guards need to work on ballhanding rather than dunking the ball.when watching the games it seems that these problems are rubbing off on each other not a good sign.i love watching indiana basketball and the players that were talked about they are great players and indiana is lucky to have them but the game against iowa may have been the worst first half that i have ever seen indiana play in my 40 years of watching with the kind of talent we have . indiana needs to get back to both inside an outside game.

  48. A few comments I would agree to..RMK type of play would not work in today’s game.It didn’t work the last 5 year’s he was at Indiana and it didn’t work the few season’e he was at TT.iN THE 70’s and 80’s and maybe into the early 90’s you could coach the way RMK did and be good at it.Then kid’s decided that a 4 year commitment meant nothing so they just transfer if they don’t like how thing’s were going.Everyone know’s I am an avid Steve Alford supporter.Coach Crean is not going anywhere he is at Indiana for many year’s to come.Alford did not leave Iowa because he was not winning.He was in a terrible dispute with the AD and President of Iowa over Alford not playing a player who had been arrested 4 times.Alford dimissed the kid and the fued was on…that led to the team not playing as well.Alford has won every place he has been.He has a hihger winning % than Crean.I would take Crean over RMK in today’s world…but if anybody think’s Crean is a better coach than Alford you know nothing about college or Indiana basketball.Crean has had 1 good season as a coach with a great player in Wade…nothing since.He will win 18-22 game’s a year at Indiana…but will be one and done in tournament.His teams play no defense and has never had a good rebounding team…ever.Lot’s of Indiana kid’s want to play at Indiana..it won’t take but another 2-3 year’s for these kid’s to see that Crean don’t have it.Alford will go to a Final Four at New Mexico before Indiana does.Alford will not be there much longer…a midwest team will get him.It will not be Indiana…he would not think about coming here.Those of you who think Alford was not even mentioned after Davis…your stupid..the board talked to Alford’s agent on the phone that night but there ignorance of failing to do one small thing cost them Alford.Alford is 3 times the coach Crean is…look at his record..then look at Crean’s.

  49. Elmo – What does the Etherington thing have to do with anything? Only 2 players played well last night so he gave a minute to a kid to keep him interested maybe, who knows. It has nothing to do with anything.

  50. Now Chet I’m trying to grasp all of this, “language pragmatics”, “body language”,”language analysis”, “situational control”,’READ PEOPLE”.attribute behaviors”, “validate assumptions”. I’m reading it differently my pants are falling down my tie is too tight and my bangs are falling in my eyes, I guess the only thing I understand is body language the rest of it is bulls–t.

  51. Vadervon – What? Fancy stuff? Haha.

    Hulls left handed passing has been very good. Also most right-handed players shoot off a left-handed dribble much more quickly and easily, so that isn’t the issue with him getting off shots.

    Sheehey is always ready to shoot the ball when he catches it. In fact there are lots of times he catches defenders off guard because they are in good position on their close-outs, but he rises up over them on the catch anyway.

    you must not have watched the last Michigan game. That first half was far worse.

  52. OldSchool – please lets not have this debate again. Alford is a good coach, but there is absolutely no evidence supporting him being better than Crean. If you want to look at career records you must do it fairly. Crean sacrificed his personal record to try to turn around this program. I do not believe it’s fair to count the last 3 years against him, but even if we count last year Crean has a higher winning % (.643 to .639).

    Crean took over a mediocre Marquette program that was sub-.500 the year before and after 2 years of playing with Mike Dean’s recruits he finally got his own players in the system. At that point he won 26, 27, 19, and 19 games, went to a Final Four, and made the program viable enough for it to be desirable to the Big East. Once in the Big East he won 20, 24, and 25 games in what was considered by many as the toughest league in the country.

    Now he has taken over an IU program that was at its lowest point in history, and has taken it to 20+ wins and a top 5 recruiting class. So the future looks bright.

    Alford has had some success as well, but not much at the high-major level. He won 10 games in the the B1G only one time in 8 years. Crean never won fewer than 10 games in the Big East…

    Right now IU has a +3 rebounding margin in B1G play, and they are #3 in the conference in rebounding margin… And they are doing that without any frontcourt depth, no real bangers at the PF, and an unathetic backcourt of Jones and Hulls for most of the year. So there goes your rebounding theory.

    Listen, I ain’t anti-Alford, and I’d be happy to have him as coach in an alternate universe, but you cannot convince me by looking at their records and previous performances that he is a better coach than Crean. I’m looking at those things and it’s pretty clear he isn’t better.

  53. OMG some people never clearly remember the facts before blowing off. During Coach Crean’s last 3 years(2 years after D. Wade left)at Marquette they were new in the Big East and his conference record is 31-19. Steve Alford’s last 3 years at Iowa City his B10 record was 27-21, adding to make his overall conference record at Iowa of 61-67. Crean now has IU at 8-7/B10 after 3 years building a remarkably solid foundation. Alford surrendered to the B10 in Iowa City to return to lower level competition for personal success and Crean stepped up to the B10 and moved to Bloomington and has stood the challenge of a decimated program. SA has thrived on the smaller stage. Those are the facts.

  54. Agreed HC- Alford won 2 ncaa tourney games at SWMstate, he then won 2 total at Iowa and NM combined. So he’s won 4 ncaa games in his 21 years of coaching. There’s a reason Iowa didn’t want him and NM was his next stop.

  55. It all boils down to the fact IU at the time did not want anyone with ties to RMK just to apese the fan base!As far as I know Alford was never considered for the position.Alford would have had his hands full at IU and because he is the golden boy does not mean he could handle the situation! He is doing very well where he is and they love him there.He did the right thing.CTC is the right guy and he is actually ahead of schedule!We as fans become impatient and when you look where we were last year at this time,are you kidding me?CTC has won more games with over achievers than anyone in the big ten.Regardless of all the abuse and second guessing at the end of the day we are in pretty good shape!

  56. Geoff,again you are right ,it was just an ego builder,maybe next game he’ll get a minute and a half. I;m sure that will really keep his interest up or maybe embarass further, but you are all knowing so you must be right. Just another stupid move on his part i’m sure his thoughts were we need to get him some playing time but not wear him out, thirty seconds on each end of the floor should keep him satisfied.

  57. I think as I look back at Etherington I see Roth and the way he has progressed. At practice they say AE is the best pure shooter right there with Roth.I agree there has been many games where he could have played in and not hurt the team.There are times when coaches get caught up in a game and forget who is on the bench.That responsibility is on the assistant coaches,and there is enough of them they should to handle that part of the game.RMK used to do it all the time,he was so wacked about perfection, but he coached against the game it’s self never really the opponent unless it was Purdue , Illinois,or KY.AE would have not made enough of a difference against Iowa!

  58. Geoff again you are right ,just another master move by the energizer bunny. You want to bet Etherington is some where else next year?

  59. 22-4 in the MW, Whoopee. SA recognized his level for success and he moved there. Albuquerque with the MW offers him a calm comfort much like North Manchester and Springfield did. I do admire him for his clear thinking and figuring that fact out while at Iowa.

  60. GEOFF thats your option not mine. hulls i agree that his lefthand passes have been good but most of the time its not needed,as for sheehey he is not ready to shoot the three when the ball swings to him most of the time look at the films.

  61. Vadevon, if there is one thing I’m positive of its that I watch more IU film than you… That is exactly why I make the statements I make.

    I have never seen hulls make an unnecessary left-handed pass. He rarely makes that pass, but when he does it’s because it’s the right decision. The last thing I would define Hulls as is a risk-taker.

  62. Elmo, why would I bet about such an inconsequential tidbit. If forced, I would say he’ll stay all four years because it was his dream to play for IU. Not to play college ball… To play in the candy stripes. But I wouldn’t put money on it.

  63. GEOFF, sorry thats just my take on it i love indiana basketball too and all of the players. hulls and sheehey are very good players i love to watch them play but like it or not the last iowa game was the worst i have seen played by an indiana team as a whole.it wasn’t what iowa did its what indiana didn’t do with the kind of talent they have we are missing a pure point guard that will be corrected next year with yogi.i think elmo,oldschoolhoosier and just about everybody may have seen the same game i saw.

  64. I saw the same game you saw as well. You’re thoughts on the Iowa game are 100% dead on. My only issue here is when people become prsioners of the moment and start extrapolating that game out to “recent” games or what is possible for this coaching staff in the future.

    The facts are that we played very hard and fairly-to-very well in the previous 3 games, and that Crean has shown he is capable of taking talented teams to Final Fours.

  65. I’ll take the bet regarding Etherington. I say he’s on the team next year. The loser of the bet has to send a $15 Trojan Horse gift certificate to Dustin and Ryan.
    No way in hell Etherington is not on this team next year. Why does get his one minute? That’s easy. That kid never stopped hounding Cody to make the right decision in choosing IU. The only reason he’s in candy stripes is because Crean wanted Cody to know his best buddy from AAU ball was going to be taken care of. Crean picks and chooses his places to be loyal and this is one he will not yield.

    Without Etherington, there is a high probability Zeller goes elsewhere.

    Without Zeller, there is a more than a high probability the dominoes don’t roll and are incoming class is not ranked one of the tops in the nation. No Etherington = No Yogi = No Movement.

    Etherington is only on thin ice when Cody decides its time to take his game to the next level. I think Zeller will stay for one more year.

    To Conclude:

    No Etherington = No Zeller
    No Zeller = No 20 wins
    No Zeller = No Top Recruiting Class = No Yogi

    None of the Above = 4guards dream come true and a call to Steve Alford in 2013.

    Think of Etherington as the suppository that got the whole “Movement” started. Think of Etherington as saving Crean’s ass and another year a stagnant team with no true inside threat..You think we’re constipated now? You think we lack synergy now? Can you imagine another year of listening to bloggers bitch over a bottom-dwelling team? Can you imagine the level of hate far and above what we currently witness aimed at upperclassmen? We’ve won 20 games with 4 to play and the level of contempt toward many of our Hoosiers is barely reduced. Could you imagine another year of Jones thinking he is the sole “go-to” guy on the team? How could you be a Hoosier fan and even suggest putting Etherington on a bus.

    Pritch may owe Austin the greatest gratitude. He has become the new hero in town instead of the most hated Hoosier. How quickly we forget the enormous amount of $hit-slinging the Sampson recruit had to endure the last three years. He gets to go out hearing cheers from many the bigots that would otherwise be dragging him through the mud(the hate now primarily displaced to Hulls and Watford)without the efforts of Austin Etherington.

    Inconsequential tidbit? Really? Remy’s 3-pointer from the corner at Mackey doesn’t get drained without the mystical and angelic powers of Etherington. He is the reason we can thump our chests again. No Cody..No Movement..No twenty wins..No NCAA berth…Unlike Laffy, Elmo, and the rest of the Crean-haters, I didn’t enjoy three years of our old rivals treating us like their prison bitch.

  66. Without Zeller, there is a more than a high probability the dominoes don’t roll and our incoming class is not ranked one of the tops in the nation.

  67. The suppository comment is an instant classic… Well done.

    Btw, I didn’t say AE was an inconsequential tidbit. I said his playing 1 minute and the thought-process behind it was inconsequential. There is no doubt that AE willed that back-breaker in the hole…

  68. I seriously doubt Zeller EVER thought, “If IU doesn’t take Etherington, I’m not going there.”

    Ever.

    So, if you’re “100% sure” he’s not going, who is?

  69. Laffy, I tend to think hat Harvard overstates AE’s importance to the Zeller commitment, but that doesn’t mean he didn’t have an impact. It’s clear that they were very close friends, and that AE was very active in recruiting not only Zeller, but all of the Elite kids. So it counts for something…

    I think there is a much greater chance that Abell transfers than AE. I also am not sure how Creek’s status effects the equation.

  70. Of course, I never said he didn’t have an impact.

    If I had to guess, I’d say either Sheehey or Etherington leaves.

  71. I don’t “hate” Crean, crybaby.

    I hate to break it to ya, but thinking someone needs improvement is not “hating” them, Goober.

    I’ll tell you who I did hate: Knight at the end of his career and after he got fired. He mailed it in. Complete hypocrite.

  72. Exaggerated? Overstated? I’m not so sure. Only “The Suppository” will ever know the whole truth his importance to “The Movement.” Much of any debate is of a suppositive nature. No one is privy to the inside contacts and what came out of such meetings. I only know that Crean had to believe there was a very good chance Austin’s influence on Cody could exert a stirring effect on the entire process. Maybe the entire “Movement” doesn’t turn the major corner….? Cody was certainly the big prize. Once he made his big splash in Bloomington, the rest our prospects flowed effortlessly onto the scene. Who’s going? You’re good at talking crap, Laffy. I’ll let you decide.

  73. I think Coach Crean had much more to do with the CZ and also AE’s commitment than anyone else. He’s done the superb job of getting all the the ever increasing quality of recruits from year 1 to 2014. Look around the collegiate landscape and there are very few friends who end up at the same U(even FB)even though they chatter and speculate about it in HS. The nature of the recruiting business and the position needs of each team just do not allow that many advantageous opportunities. No doubt AE was positive encouragement but if CZ was asked about it the impact was marginal.

  74. We can trade him in for Bruce Weber. He was an excellent coach a few years ago according to many on here.

    I guess it wasn’t fair to imply you hate Tom Crean. I’m not always the biggest fan(I despise much of the garbage on Twitter), but I just don’t see the point in the never ending ridicule. He’s brought some pretty decent kids to the program and I think he is giving his best effort with a fairly formidable task. I doubt many coaches could have done more in three years given the state of our affairs. Does that mean I love every decision and agree with his delegation of PT in every game? Is their a coach on the planet that is without critics? You can’t always equate the criticism to performance. Many people have their own agendas and axes to grind.

  75. Hey Laffy and all you other Steve Alford lovers, did you see that huge win by #21 New Mexico @ Colorado State last night? Man, I bet they played with 100% effort to earn that ‘W’. And by ‘W’, I mean loss. Man, Steve Alford must be a horrendous coach because his team did not show up to play last night.

    *disclaimer* All of the above is sarcasm.

  76. I’m not an “Alford-lover.” In fact, when all the Wonder Boy-worshipers were DEMANDING that IU hire him, I was one of the most VOCAL people against it.

    Of course, I was called a “fake” fan then too.

    Yawn.

    I just think he’s done a decent job this year.

  77. Looks like it is tough on the road in the MW also for ranked teams. NM now falls out of the top 25 and probably drops them 3 seeds. The damn sky is falling AH-gain.

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