Indiana releases Pro Day results

Zach Osterman of 247Sports.com and I attended Indiana’s Pro Day on Monday morning and hand-timed some of the 40-yard dashes. We didn’t release many of the times we came up with because we weren’t sure of their accuracy.

Turns out, that was a good decision, and we are apparently not good with stopwatches, myself in particular. Indiana released the official times and other results of the combine today, and we weren’t particularly close to on target.

Anyway, wide receiver Dre Muhammad ran the fastest 40 at 4.45 seconds. Damarlo Belcher, meanwhile, ran a 4.7. Offensive lineman Andrew McDonald had the most impressive performance on the bench press, putting up 225 pounds 23 times. Muhammad had the fastest shuttle run time at 4.31 seconds and safety Chris Adkins had the best vertical leap at 35.5 inches and the best broad jump at 10 feet, 2 inches.

The Hoosiers also released the top performances from a combine held among the returning players. Shane Wynn ran the fastest 40 time at 4.37 seconds. Adam Replogle benched 225 31 times.

The rest of the results can be found from both pro day and that combine can be found here.

43 comments

  1. I read earlier this week that Dre ran a 3.39, guess that wasn’t official.

    A 4.7 isn’t impressive at all for Belcher!

    Wynn is blistering fast, and all I can say for Replogle is WOW!

  2. Mike P.,
    Yeah, that was unofficial. There was a guy who was hand-timing at the line who got that and gave that number to Zack, but we didn’t roll with it because Wilson told us before we left that was unofficial. Clarion, they only gave us the single best numbers in each combine, and I’d actually guess that Stoner didn’t run considering he’s still working with the track team. I’m not sure exactly how they’re splitting up his work right now. But it’s pretty obvious he’s having a good track season. They’ve apparently actually spread him out a little bit and made him a 400 guy.

  3. Mike P., yes Replogle would have finished 11th at the combine. Murphy’s 38.5″ vertical would have been 5th, Houston’s 10’7″ would have been 8th and Wynn’s 4.37 would have been 5th.

    HC, I doubt that Stoner participated. He’s running track and will be going to the NCAA’s soon. I doubt that they would risk injury.

  4. Pretty good? 31 reps would put him tied for 22nd at the NFL Combine this year with 5 other players, that’s all positions.

    For Defensive lineman, that makes him tied for 12th overall with 2 others.

    I would say that is more than pretty good.

  5. For me this seals the deal for Belcher. A 4.73 & 4.8 would have been the slowest at the NFL combine (4.69 was the slowest, and 4.36 was the fastest for WO). With a 4.8 you are not going to get seperation in the NFL. He would be a jump ball receiver in the NFL.

    Below are their Pro Day results (as measured by NFL scouts in attendance):

    40-Yard Dash Shuttle Vertical Broad Bench
    Adkins 4.65, 4.63 4.32 35.5″ 10’2″ 16 reps
    Belcher 4.73, 4.80 4.40 32.5″ 9’9″ 13
    Drane – – – – 16
    Johnson 4.80, 4.85 4.59 28.0″ 8’9″ 18
    Jones, D.4.66, 4.65 4.53 32.5″ 10’1″ 15
    Jones, F.5.19, 5.15 4.40 29.0″ 9’2″ 19
    McDonald 5.35, 5.25 4.80 28.5″ 8’9″ 23
    Muhammad 4.50, 4.45 4.31 32.5″ 10’0″ 16
    Thomas 4.87, 4.80 4.40 30.0″ 9’0″ 20

  6. It would be great to get the full results of the NFL Combine and for the current Hoosiers to compare. Any chance of that happening?

  7. According to my precise extrapolation of the times in the IU Combine and a rigidly rigorous conversion of the individual performances in a matrix provided by DD and interpreted by the American Academy of Statistical Mathematics, we finished tied for fourth in the BigTen Conference (football) in 2011, with a 4-3 conference record and 8-3 overall. Way to go Hoosiers!! Can’t wait for the freshmen to become sophomores in 2012.

    Well….what do you want out of me? I’m practicing for the new culture!

  8. Dre ran according to the 49ers a 4.35, 4.37 with the dolphins & bengals, 4.39 with everyone else. So yall can discredit Dre with the unofficial whatever. Its sad!! Very sad!!

  9. Hey joseph, those are the numbers the teams released, which is what the scouts gave them after they met up and went over their numbers. Hence the link above to the school’s official website. If there’s a conspiracy to cheat Dre out of a sub 4.4 40, it doesn’t start here. We’re not looking to discredit Dre at all.

  10. Hand times are worthless. Does anyone think they can really judge hundredths of a second? Even our local high schools do electronic times.

  11. For the 40 Chet? Electronic timing, at least for track meets anyway, requires a lot of hardware to pull off. It’s certainly doable for any important meet, but it takes a while to get the whole thing set up. It’s a bit of a hassle to just put in Mellencamp Pavilion for a Pro Day, just to have nine guys run the 40 and it’s sort of comparative anyway. The scouts watch all these and then put the guys through position drills. If they’re not good with a stopwatch, they know exactly how not good with a stopwatch they are, and take that in to consideration when they call their GMs to tell them who’s worth looking into.
    Also, I presume these guys are a lot better with stop watches than I am.

  12. Yep. Keep in mind that every school in the county has artificial turf on their football fields. Maybe that’s the norm. I don’t know anymore. But when they do pre season and ‘Shrine Bowl Combine’ (the big all star game) times, everything is electronic, push board, lasar finish, all that. They even give out a reconciliation chart for comparing hand times to electronic times.

    ALL the track meets do electronic timing for sprints.

  13. To put the 40 yard dash times into some perspective; as nearly as I can tell no one has ever run a 40 yard dash under 4.0 (there were some rumors that Isaiah Bolt may have run just under 3.97 but it was later corrected to 4.2). The recognized “world fastest humans”, Bolt, Maurice Green and Bob Hayes were timed (at some point) just above 4.0 (Hayes 4.1, Bolt and Green 4.2. It is generally conceded that anything near 4.3 to 4.4+ is really moving.

    If indeed Mr. Belcher is running 4.7 at his size, weight and with little training his agent should lower his fee under 5%, in all circumstances that would be ‘quick’.

    One other point. What is the point of measuring 270-350 lbs. linesmen running over 40 yards? How often do we see a linesman run 20 yards, much less 40 yards? Better to measure them at 5-10 yards from a dead stop. If they did run forty, I’d rather know that the ambulance with the oxygen concentrator can cover the distance from the gate to the spot where the linesman passed out in 4.5 seconds.

    The NFL and football players in general love to talk the 40-yard dash time and get it as low as possible as a marketing ploy. After all, you generally don’t pay $500 a seat to watch sprinters for an instant (say the difference between 4.35 and 4.7 is just [that-that-that] long-, about as long as it takes to pass gas). Also, it pays to consider that there is no such thing as an ‘official’ 40 yard dash event(there is a 60 yard dash and a 60-meter dash). And, much depends on the timing, the timing mechanisms, the form of the start (from a dead start, on a sound, a moving start over a measured 40 yards distance, etc.).

    Given all these 40 yard myths (it may be a good measure to compare within a one-team or group but then only if all conditions are equal and the link to the measurement clearly made). Otherwise, if it were me…I’d pray for Dustin Dopirak to be holding the stop-watch as Harvard was pointing the starter’s pistol at him.

    For any who may be interested in pursuing the fascinating feat, these are specific ‘claimed faster’ times of some professional football players.
    Devin Hester (4.24 @ Miami Pro Day, 4.45 @ 2006 NFL Combine, 100 speed in Madden 08)
    Reggie Bush (4.33 @ University of USC at Pro Day 2006)
    Ike Taylor (4.18 @ University of Louisiana at Lafayette Pro Day)
    Laveranues Coles (4.16 @ Florida State University, 4.29 @ Jets Media Guide)
    Ahman Green (4.19 @ Pre-Draft Workout in Nebraska)
    Michael Puckett (4.19 @ Pre-Draft Workout at CCCC)
    Zach Rehmert (4.20 @ Pre- Draft workout at Collin College)
    Kevin Curtis (4.21 @ Utah State Pro Day)
    Donte Stallworth (4.22 @ 2003 Tennessee Pro Day)
    Willie Parker (4.23 @ 2004 North Carolina Pro Day)
    Randy Moss (4.25 @ Marshall University)
    Fabian Washington (4.29 @ 2005 NFL Combine)
    Champ Bailey (4.28 @ 1999 NFL Combine)
    Jerome Mathis (4.28 @ 2005 NFL Combine)
    Willis McGahee (4.28 @ Miami Pre-Injury)
    Michael Bennett (4.17 @ Wisconsin Pro Day, 4.37 @ 2001 NFL Combine)

  14. Dustin,
    Yes, electronic timing is becoming the norm, even at the high school level. Electronic timing systems can be had for around $1200, if you do not buy the board to show thier times. For a straight line sprint, measuring 1 guy at a time, they are not that difficult to set up.

  15. TTG, I believe the reason that the linemen run the 40 is to assure 100% evaluation for all participants at the combine. Each participant does every test. Don’t forget there are also position drills/tests.

    Chet, not all schools have artificial turf on their football fields. I am sure that UConn, Notre Dame, UCLA, Purdue, Virginia, Maryland, Florida and Alabama utilize real grass. I am sure that there are others. Before artificial turf many schools used the track for 40 yard times. In the 60’s recruiting information would ask for either 40 or 50 yard times.

  16. Jay Gregg, yes I agree with you. If nothing else it is a ‘standard time’ for relative measurements, just like the ‘high jump’ is used to measure leg explosion and strength, etc. and the weight reps to measure upper body strength and stamina.

    One issue that comes up, however, is caused by the popular fascination with ’40 yard times’ and their exaggeration by over-zealousness over p.r. Seems like every junior high school has someone who runs the 40 in 3.9.

    Look at the discussion of the subject here and, specifically, the snubbing of Dre M’s time. Even pro scouts exaggerate (or give their ‘best interpretation’) of their assignments, since their own evaluations and ‘bonuses’ do depend on their GM’s view of their assigned candidates. Who, after all, wants to go back with a report that their ‘assignment’ ran a 5.3/40.

    By the way, my kid ran a 3.76/40 in full combat gear, while wearing all helmets, plates and flack jackets (uphill and against a 14mph wind) and I ran along side praising him for his ‘quick fiber muscle’.

  17. Jay, I was actually just asking about high school fields. It is pretty commonplace down here, I just didn’t know if it was everywhere. After the initial outlay it’s much cheaper to maintain, especially if it’s a multi use field.

  18. Lots of grass h.s. fields in Chgo. The few fake fields I’ve seen in the city were in terrible condition, but my “survey” is pretty limited and certainly would not meet any of the the ridigly rigorous standards used by Tsao. Maybe its different in the ‘burbs.

  19. Davis, I agree…it kind of worries you when the asphalt base is on top of the used-to-be green carpet. That’s what happens when 60 schools share 5-6 stadiums and the 700+ soccer leagues teams use them evening and weekends. What pass for 40-yard-dash times in the suburbs, in the city they call them steeplechase, and the men’s room passes for the ‘lagoon’.

  20. They are putting in college level stuff around here. About 3 million a pop but it’s nice stuff. The thing is, after varsity football, JV football, sometimes middle school, several youth league games, sometimes the home schoolers (now, THAT’S a sight to see), soccer, etc., it has to be re-sodded every year and that costs over a hundred grand. Even doing that the field still looks, and plays, awful by the middle of October.
    It’s also better for field events for track in the spring.

    We’ve had a couple years when Brad Johnson (Super Bowl QB) was picking up the tab for his alma mater.

    Speaking of the home school football, I was riding past the middle school one Saturday and saw a game going on with about 4 Sheriff’s cruisers in the parking lot. Usually, there might be one for a game. Curious, I pulled in and saw a deputy that I knew and asked him why the show of force for such a tiny crowd. He said the home school parents were nuts. They had no idea how to behave at a sporting event and got into heated arguments and fights EVERY WEEK.

    I found that hilarious. The game looked like a bunch of oversized cats with helmets wandering around.

  21. Chet, I get your point. I worry about the injury factor. Have read articles where artificial turf is blamed for the severity of the injury and a surge in concussions since under the rug you basically have cement; thus, no give. Big headache.

    Soccer people don’t like it because it changes the bounce height of the ball and the ball tends to skip along the turf rather than rotate, making it’s movement much faster than grass.

    You also can’t smoke artificial turf.

  22. It’s hard to ignore the comments from current players (STARTERS) about how IU football blackballed Dre Muhammad. The truth about It, I have sit back listening to them go on how this guy was a leader who displayed class and character even when he knew they were screwing him.

    The players say that he was the hardest worker with very good skill sets. I asked about his character = good, grades = good, off field behavior = good, The final question I asked was as a player do you think he should have been playing ” He should have benn starting” WOW !!!

    His pro day numbers seem to suggest if given the time on the field he would have represented IU well at the combine.

  23. Where are these comments? Or, is this just hearsay? I hope he does well but there’s more to it than numbers.

  24. TTG, it’s been installed for several years now and, if anything, there have been fewer injuries. I guess it’s what it’s compared to. A really good artificial surface would seem safer than a chewed up natural surface. At least from the waist down.

  25. Yes there is more to football on all levels and it starts with opportunity and not excuses that don’t add up from the IU football program on why Dre Muhammad didn’t play. IU played weed smokers and there are more than Belcher I’ve seen with my own eyes(FACT), guys who didn’t go to class,

    That 4.39 made me research Dre’s background and my conclusion is that IU football showed him no love.
    Maybe if he would had smoke weed and skip class he would have been team captain at IU. LOL

  26. Sounds like more unsubstantiated BS. Here is something to ponder for the ages. My wife and I were married on the moon and honeymooned on Saturn and our children conceived on Mars(naturally all boys)(FACT).

  27. There really is no definitive data concerning injuries and artificial turf. It does appear that Field Turf may be more forgiving than Astro Turf.
    TTG the newer versions are attempting to provide a better cushion using the rubber pellets/sand/and other materials. Astro Turf was the first and probably worst. Poly Turf, I think, was developed for the Orange Bowl, it failed miserably.
    I have played on Astro Turf, would not recommend it. I have not played on Field Turf so I can’t say anything.

    Chet, I look around a little bit. Field Turf states that they have 1000 high school field installed. Astro Turf has 56. Also I found that a football field costs about $1.5M

  28. Jay< I do not to want to wager any money but I thought Astro Turf was developed for the Astro Dome sometime in the 60's.

  29. HC, the Astrodome tried grass, that did not work, so they installed Astro Turf. What is there to wager?

  30. Where do you live that you want to wager April’s snow removal bill? I’ll do it but you have to pay portal-to-portal, plus $500.00 a day, if I win. If you win I’ll get there and shovel my little heart out.

  31. Kind of a joke. Poorly framed. Hopefully no more snow. But was the Astro Dome(as the 1st domed stadium)the 1st install for Astro turf after the growing grass indoors failure?

  32. HC, as far as I know the Astrodome was the first installation, 1966 was the install date. I believe that Monsanto was the owner. Indiana State had Astroturf installed in 1967.

    I like a joke.

  33. Jay that brings another Q. Was the AT problem at the Orange Bowl because of the weather and environment of Miami or did it just get to damned old and needed a replacement?

  34. Joseph,
    I’ve written a pair of features on Dre and talked to a lot of his teammates and coaches about him, and you are certainly correct that he was a great leader, worked really hard, had a lot of talent and showed that belonged on the field. I’ll post them here just so you know I’ve done my research here and that you know I don’t have anything against the kid.

    http://www.heraldtimesonline.com/stories/2010/04/14/iusports.qp-4236968.sto

    http://www.heraldtimesonline.com/stories/2011/09/01/iusports.qp-7516272.sto

    But from doing those two stories, I have a hard time believing he got black-balled. I’ve heard his fellow receivers (Damarlo Belcher and Kofi Hughes among them) say he deserved to start, but the question I had for them was, over who? That they didn’t have an answer for.
    As a senior under Wilson, he obviously did get a chance to start, and I don’t think you could look at the starting patterns and not see that Wilson was running a meritocracy based on practice. So what we’re really talking about is whether or not Muhammad should have been starting in his junior season under Lynch.
    I have no doubt that Muhammad was one of the best 11 offensive players on that team. However, I don’t think it’s clear cut at all that he was one of the best five wide receivers. That just happened to be the only loaded unit on the team. The top five guys on that group were Tandon Doss, Damarlo Belcher, Terrance Turner, Duwyce Wilson and Kofi Hughes. Belcher, Doss and Turner were 1-2-3 in the Big Ten in receptions. Wilson and Hughes are obviously really talented guys. You could certainly argue Muhammad’s case and say they could’ve used a speedy slot type to complement the big guys they had. And perhaps you could also argue that Muhammad deserved to start over Belcher simply because he worked harder than Belcher (he did, and I don’t think even Belcher would argue that) and that should be rewarded whether Belcher was more talented or not. But I don’t think there’s a player on that list that you could say Muhammad was clearly better than and make a slam dunk argument. Now, could he hang with that group? Absolutely. Should IU have found ways to get him some playing time one way or the other simply because he earned it? That obviously makes sense. But I think the notion that Bill and Billy Lynch blackballed Muhammad is a tad far-fetched. It’s possible they babied the other guys a bit much, but I never got any impression that they had something personal against Dre. They had five big, fast, talented targets and they played the bigger guys.

  35. DD…we (those of us who by reason of distance) never knew there was an issue regarding Dre’s starting and/or playing time. If the information J Banks provides is true (and you did not dispute it in your statement), there may be a valid argument (valid does not mean final) to consider. It’s also clear to me that Coach Wilson knew quite a bit about receivers, slot backs, passing game and, obviously, he recognized Dre M’s talent.

    No one can dispute that his 40-yard time made him one fast receiver. Nor will I (or anyone else) dispute that it takes more than just straight-line speed to be a top receiver and football player. But, we knew relatively little about Dre M as a legitimate receiver option before last year.

    I do hope in the future we are able to learn more about players who are not necessarily starting for the Hoosiers but are players who’s talent makes them worthy of being covered, so we as fans can watch their progress as well.

  36. Tsao,
    There are a lot of arguments to consider and I didn’t say they weren’t valid. I’m presuming you mean whether the information on players not going to class and doing drugs was valid. Well, I’m not sure about prior incidents from Belcher. I can tell you that Turner was a standout student and I believe Wilson and Hughes are as well. I have no information whatsoever that would indicate that Doss did not have his head together either. There weren’t a lot of problem kids in that particular unit. I’m not going to say there weren’t issues with some guys. It’s a big team, but that particular group seemed to be pretty together.
    As far as covering players who aren’t playing much, you will notice the above-linked feature on him from the spring of 2010 in which I discuss him as a legitimate receiver option.

  37. It also should be pointed out. For all that 2010 team’s failings, it did lead the Big Ten in passing. And the way they threw the ball — lots of hitches and outs and intermediate crossing patterns — it helped to have big targets. And the players who returned — Belcher, Wilson and Hughes — all started for Kevin Wilson as well.

  38. Dustin Dopirak I respect your comments because you showed that you cared enough to research, but you have to understand that no one will say another man deserves to play before them it’s human nature.

    It’s unfortunate for Dre his talent’s were wasted at IU , but you do make a solid arguement about the 2010 season. The 2011 season I don’t care who’s the new coach Dre was productive with fewer playing time than Kofi, Demarlo,and Wynn but his stats were better than most of them when you measure snaps played, catches , and drops. Now we know he’s PRO FAST “WHAT A WASTE” FOR THE IU PROGRAM.

  39. Hoosier Clarion it’s seems that you comment alot with bias and not facts. Please do research before speaking unless you enjoy “egg on face” LOL

    I’m sorry your family is from outer space or have you been smoking something ? with !!!!!!!!!! and !!!!!!! while skipping class. LOLOLOLOLOLOL

  40. As if you established facts. If you do not play much there is a reason and it is not because you are not liked. It says something about the competition ahead of you. Which is what DD stated.

  41. DD…my point is that none of us have any idea what led to the fact that Dre M. did not play as much as he and those who support him said he should have in 2010. He did make a contribution in 2011, He also clearly established (in March 2012) he is fast but the lines in football run horizontally and not vertically as on the track your point is, in fact, the reality. His coaches determined his playing time based on whatever issues were relevant to his role and that was entirely appropriate.

    As far as his or other player’s behavior and habits, I have absolutely no idea and, since I don’t, and have long held (sometimes rabidly) that I believe rumors and allegations have absolutely no place in determining issues about the careers and lives of individuals until they are well documented and substantiated, it would be hypocritical and cynical of me to assume it as fact in these circumstances. I assume those running the program knew what they were doing.

    I agree totally that the skills necessary to play football go beyond mere speed. I also think (and agree with Hoosier Clarion)that the skills necessary to make the decision a coach makes as to who plays and who doesn’t go well beyond those that it takes (me or anyone) to write comments on a blog after I read one variable, forty-yard time. Your comment that the passing game (and the receiving game) was not the problem in 2010 is absolutely correct.

    That being the case I believe the decision is best left exactly where it is, in the hands of professionals, the coaches. If they blow them then their professional status and their careers are placed in jeopardy. We, on the other hand, lose nothing.

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