Lyles looking for school that will best prepare him for the NBA

Trey Lyles held a small, invite-only press conference Friday to discuss his plans after his de-commitment from Indiana. The highly-rated Tech forward reiterated that Indiana is at the top of his list, that IU will continue recruiting him and that he plans to take an unofficial visit to Bloomington soon, but he also said he will take his time with recruiting and look for the school that can best prepare him for the NBA.

Zach Osterman of Inside Indiana had more.

And More.

So did Kyle Neddenriep of the Indy Star

And Jeff Rabjohns of Peegs.

141 comments

  1. He’s what, 16 and already talking as if the NBA is a done deal? I hope he turns out to be as good as he thinks he is, or that fall is going to be painful.

  2. Better to find out now than later. The only thing he is guilty of is being a kid. Best thing for IU to do is take the high road, keep recruiting great players, and play great ball. IU wins a title it is going to be tough to justify walking away.

  3. Me too. I’m sure he’ll be great for somebody but he’s saying all the wrong things. He may have already burned too many bridges.

  4. he is gone. that’s it. stop deluding yourselves. no one, and i mean no one, has ever gone back to the original school after decommitting. i imagine crean will not recruit him with much fervor.

  5. No different I guess than a brilliant, motivated, and inspired student wanting to choose the right Ivy League school to prepare them for politics or NASA or to be a partner at Epstien Becker & Green.

    Or maybe kids wanting to go to Ivy Tech to become police officers (security guards) and oral hygienists.

    We all have dreams as kids. Hopefully Trey fulfills his.

  6. Coachv – while I’m not convinced Lyles will end up at IU, you are definitely incorrect. 3 of the 8 top-25 recruits from the last 3 classes that decommitted ended up recommitting to their original choice:

    Ricardo Ledo – Providence
    CJ Leslie – NC State
    Myck Kabongo – Texas

    That means roughly 40% of the top recruits who have decommited recently ended up signing with the same school.

    Thanks for the input tho.

  7. He is a big time HS baller in Indiana and our backyard. Not much effort to stay in his field of vision especially so if this season succeeds last and Wat, Big Z and Vic go pro. Then offer again.

  8. Isn’t Watford a senior? I believe he’s going after next season irrespective of being a pro.

  9. There are also concerns over the eligibility of shooting guard Ricardo Ledo, the second highest-rated member of the recruiting class. Ledo spent his high school years bouncing around from prep school to prep school, which has led to a number of questions about his academic status.

    That would possibly explain why Ricardo Ledo went back to ‘Plan A’. Maybe other schools weren’t prepared to take the academic risk that his original college choice is still willing to take?

    I Didn’t bother to check out the other names Geoff provided that backed out of the initial verbal. I’m sure there can often be more to it than just wanting to leave your options open.

  10. CTC should tell Lyles like he did Carlino. We don’t need kids who are not 100% committed to IU, pull his scholarship and don’t look back.

  11. If Lyles has truly relied on Lyle for advice–I question his judgment.As for IU and Crean they should back off- he’s seen everything about IU. If he wants to go to one and done U- Crean kissing his ass won’t change anything.

  12. Maybe Lyles is just doing what he sees Crean doing: making promises he can’t keep. Crean promises guys scholarships he doesn’t have, Lyles promises he’ll go to IU. Maybe Lyles is afraid one of his promised teammates actually won’t be at IU because of the constant over sign. BTW, who is Crean kicking off the team or making them pay their way to make the 13 for this season?

  13. Harvard – in similarly skimpy research I found that Ledo was also offered scholarships by UConn and Syracuse – two pretty decent offers – and UConn has never been scared away by academic issues…

    Kabongo by all accounts is a good kid from a large family thats lived in multiple countries, settling in Toronto. He played 3 years at St. Benedict’s under Hurley and his Sr year at Findlay Prep. He was recruited by all the big time programs, but Texas has been a Canadian pipeline recently and my guess is that was the initial and final reason he committed.

    Leslie was an in-state recruit, so maybe the closest comparative situation to Lyles. Hopefully Lyles will do the same thing – re-commit to his initial, in-state choice and then play at least 3 years of college ball (Leslie is coming into his junior year).

  14. Debbie, what evidence do you have that CTC promised scholarships to anyone that will not be getting one? That would assume he promised 5 years of scholarships to Matt Roth (which is impossible) and assuming you have knowledge of another promised, but withheld scholarship (which I seriously doubt).

  15. Debbie – since the over-sign is fairly common practice I doubt that he is worried about that. I also doubt he is worried about what will happen to a bit player in a class or 3 ahead of him.

    Here’s another question – which 2 players from the Class of 2012 would you have preferred Crean not recruit?

    Next year, most people say that person would be Hartman, but I don’t hear the majority of fans voicing their disappointment in the continuing recruitment of Anya, Lee, or Semi.

    And what if Cody and Dipo go pro after this year? It’s a fairly likely scenario. Should Crean just go after whatever is left in April? The small handful of IU-calibre talents left uncommitted at that point are usually sure-fire one-and-doners or academic liabilities.

    Figuring out all the scenarios and planning properly isn’t an easy job, and it has a lot less to do with ethics than it does making sure your bases are covered. Scholarships are year to year contracts and it’s never 100% clear whether they will be re-need by players or schools. When we recruited Dipo how many fans thought he’d be in a position to declare for the draft after his junior year? Maybe he does, maybe he doesn’t, but would there be outrage by or accusations of unethical behavior on his part if he only stays 3 years and takes advantage of his rising stock? I doubt guest or Tsao would be as vocal about that.

  16. Mike P. – by that logic we must also pull the offers to:

    Anya
    Semi
    Lee
    Meeks
    Russell
    McCullough
    Lyle
    Bluiett
    Alexander
    Pinson

    None of those players are 100% committed to IU. Your point is simply the most short-sighted and vindictive made on this topic.

  17. What is shortsighted is those 10 are not committed at all as they have not given a verbal. TL did. Now he just like those 10 is not committed.

  18. I am just not sure why anyone would be so pissed at a decision an 8th grader made. At the time he made his decision how many unofficial visits do yu think he had made to schools? My guess is maybe 1 – IU. He was in friggin 8th grade!

    He still is only entering his junior year and he can’t make his first official visit to any school until Jan. 2, 2013 (which is a change this year allowing recruits to visit 6 months earlier than before).

    He isn’t saying he likes IU any less, he is simply saying he never even gave himself a chance to check anything out.

    His recruitment is now just like anyone else’s in the class of 2014. The only difference is those players didn’t try to make an uniformed decision when they were 13 or 14.

    I was committed to either being a skateboarder or an architect when I was in 8th grade. I am neither, but things turned out ok.

    Trey is still only 16, and despite his obvious physical maturity compared to his peers, why would anyone assume he is more mentally advanced than you or I or anyone else is in the summer after their sophomore year?

    Some people are so friggin warped. Cut the kid some slack. He just wants to get the same attention and experiences as all his buddies.

    Are you so insecure that IU doesn’t have enough to offer a top in-state recruit that once he gets a chance to check everyone out that he won’t come back?

    And at that point, once a recruit has had the opportunity to compare and contrast his suitors, you DO know that he is 100% committed to his choice. Hopefully its IU.

  19. I am comfortable with post #20 stating TL was not the same as those other 10 mentioned until he decommitted. He was a Freshman not an 8th grader when he offered his verbal to IU.

  20. I know he is a kid but……….. Shows effect of AAU system. He probably has been told he could do better. That is fine. It is evident he will not go to IU. I would pull offer and look elsewhere for someone who wants to go to a good school and not a basketball factory. We all know what is up. He is headed to either UK or someplace like Syracuse. Wish luck and move on CTC. We have plenty that want to play for us.

  21. I get a little annoyed when I hear that Coach Cal is any better than any other coach at turning HS athletes into NBA stars. I’m not saying that Trey is referring to UK as the team that is best at doing so but I really get sick of hearing how good Cal is at it. He takes some if the best kids in the nation, whom prior to the rule change mostly would have went straight to the NBA from HS, and go 1 or 2 years then go pro. Give those rosters to Crean, Izzo, Thad, most coaches in the Big Ten or any other decent school and those guys are the best at “developing” NBA talent.

  22. Who is saying that Cal is better?

    I completely agree with your assessment Dustin. I just hear people say he is better at developing, just better at recruiting them.

  23. All I know is that people are making a lot of assumptions based on their emotional reactions, and not anything that has been actually stated by any of the actual parties involved.

  24. Mostly hear it from UK fans… I live in Seymour and we have a ton of them around here. Some forums as well…. I also get the impression that a lot of HS kids (recruits) think Cal is a top notch developer of talent for the NBA given his 1st round picks while at UK.

  25. True. Geoff I agree on that…. I suppose it is disheartening when you think they have a probable top 10 recruit locked up and then you don’t. I would like to see the verbals be done away with and maybe bump up the NLOI upped to Junior year. Just a thought…. I suppose that way there is no grey area of who the kid “belongs” to or who is stealing commits.

  26. HC – I stand corrected. His verbal was made in Sept of his freshman year, so I guess he wasn’t an 8th grader anymore. But certainly the decision-making process wasn’t a one day event, and the offer was given as an 8th grader. His impressions and reasoning were formed before he started HS as a 13 and 14 year old boy.

    I can understand a coach wanting to get a commitment from an 8th grader.

    I can understand a 14 year old wanting to verbal to a big time program.

    I can understand a 16 year old wanting all the excitement and benefits of the recruiting process.

    I CANNOT understand grown men (although Mike P. may be 15 for all I know) getting all pissypants that a boy changed his mind (sort of) to take advantage of a once in a lifetime situation. Especially when he may very well decide to re-commit when it’s all said and done…

    It’s my personal opinion that those people are morons.

  27. There is no emotion to it. In fact it is the opposite, unemotional. What Mike P. believes and OSD and I support is now that Coach Crean has developed this high flying trajectory, is any player who decommits from his verbal then IU reciprocates by rescinding that offer. Tell every recruit upon receiving his verbal commit here is how we work. Policy, no surprises, no guesses. It is up to the coaching staff as to whether they will continue to recruit him.

  28. I want kids that are preparing to bring us a national championship. I thought being on a scholarship meant giving back something to the school and the fans. I don’t have a problem with a recruit giving an early verbal and then wanting to change his mind…It’s his priorities that are messed up. The title of this article pretty much speaks to the recurring tale in college basketball. The recruit is not grateful for the opportunity to represent a fine university..All the concerns are turned inward…”What can you do for me” rather than “What I’d like to do for Indiana.”

    Good luck to Trey. There are plenty of coaches and programs that build their success upon feeding this sad self-centered purpose that turns teams and once proud schools into 5-star watered down, uninspiring, hotel stays for teenage prima donnas.

    These young men will remain 14-year-old’s well into their twilight of bouncing a basketball in the playpen of stalled maturity. They will commit adultery, bang maids in Denver hotel rooms and then wear the jersey of our country in the Olympics, run into the stands to start fist fights and a few years later place the name “World Peace” on their jersey, grow gradually more pathetic and find a reality TV show to feed their “me” disease…etc, etc, etc.

    It’s sad their are no real heroes in sports anymore…Maybe even more sad these young sponges with hearts ready and minds willing can’t locate true role models to give them something worth inspiration other than a mirror.

  29. Harvard – that was a good post. However, if you aren’t going to recruit anyone with that attitude it’s gonna be pretty tough to put together a competitive roster.

    HC – Ok, I’m not against that recruiting philosophy, but then they shouldn’t be offering to 8th graders. You simply cannot be that hard line or have that level of expectation with a 13 or 14 year old boy. It just doesn’t make sense.

    maybe Mike P.’s statement was void of emotion. There wasn’t much “tone” to it. I didn’t have to surmise or read between the lines of Aruss’s statement though (“Trey is dead to me”). And since he stated he was in agreement with Mike I guess I lumped them in together.

    So if Trey had verballed coming into his junior year, and then decommitted before his senior year, then I guess I have no problem with the vitriol or the rescinding of his offer.

    In the current situation though, I find it hard to say that IU isn’t #1 on Trey’s list. If he chooses us after having his fun, what is the harm? If he doesn’t choose us, at least he has given the coaching staff plenty of time to find a suitable replacement for the 2014 class.

  30. I guess that’s what I still believe can be infectious about Indiana…Maybe a few top talents have the guts to think outside the box..I think Cody stepped outside the norm of the “what can you do for me” attitude when came through our door. Our great fans, the matchless energy of Assembly Hall, the history that catches fire when candy-stripes take the court, and our undaunted faith in our hearts for those that wear the jersey unselfishly to live forever Hoosiers, has a magical way of turning kids into wanting to look for something endlessly hold onto from the game; something bigger and more rewarding than self.

  31. Geoff, #33 pretty much lays it out. I just don’t know how you can not offer the young ones knowing the competition will.

  32. HC – me neither.

    Harvard – I think that IU can be that special to kids once they get there and experience it, but it’s a little tougher (a lot tougher for out of state kids) to “get it” coming in. That’s why I think we have to give these kids a bit more of a break until they have signed their LOI’s and not expect every 8th grader to be 100% committed to IU…

  33. I think that IU can be that special to kids once they get there and experience it,

    Agree 100%. Case in point: Matt Roth.

  34. Surely a kid had enough sense to know that, if they de-commit, that the university is not gonna leave that offer hanging out there forever. If they are foolish enough to believe the school will wait indefinitely for a player to quit waffling they deserve whatever they get.

  35. Rico – Matt Roth isn’t the type of high profile recruit that Harvard was talking about. A team full of Matt Roth’s would not be competitive in the B1G. So your point is moot.

    Chet – that’s fine. The IU staff can do whatever they see fit. Maybe they don’t get quite as emotional as some of the fans though. If I were a coach I would want Lyles on my team if he wanted to be here, and as of right now he is still saying that IU is #1 on his list…

    I’m still trying to put myself in the shoes of a 16 year old recruit. I’m watching all my best friends get flown around the country and hanging with college football and basketball stars and hearing stories about hot-a$$ college girls all over them and how sweet the front row seats were to the St Johns v. UConn game at Madison Square Garden were. And I’m thinking to myself I love IU but that all sounds awesome. So maybe I’ll just check all that out and then go back to IU.

    He’s 16! This isn’t a 25 yr old guy who has been dating a chick for a couple years, got engaged and then said he wanted to date other chicks just to make sure she’s the right one. That dude has already dated for 8 years… You can be mad at him if you want. She can never speak to him again and everyone would support her. But Trey hasn’t experienced any of the stuff all his peers are. To me it’s completely understandable. I still hope he chooses IU after he’s had his fun.

  36. Geoff, couldn’t agree more. Who wants a kid that is resentful because he didn’t get the parade that all the other guys got? I don’t see anything wrong in what he’s doing.

    Do I wish he wasn’t? Sure.

    Do I begrudge him for wanting his slice of the pie? Of course not.

    He never should have committed in kindergarten but he didn’t know. He’s a kid.

    It will all work out.

    You know what? Everybody is shipping Cody off to the NBA at the end of next season. I’m not so sure. Tim Duncan stayed for four years at Wake frickin’ Forest. Ever been to Winston-Salem? I have. Lots. It ain’t exactly Disneyworld. We might be watching Cody for three more seasons. He knows this is the best time of his life. Andrew Luck would have been everyone’s #1 pick a year ago and he stuck around. What red blooded Hoosier kid who wasn’t living in poverty and wants an education wouldn’t love four years in Bloomington?

    He’s the poster boy for the ‘loyal’ Hoosier hero.

  37. Think about it.

    You’re having the time of your life. You have a Lloyd’s of London policy on your body for 40 million dollars (he’s NOT stupid).

    You’re gonna be the #1 pick whenever you go (it’s just the nature of his game).

    If you stick around and hang a couple banners you could be the greatest sports hero in Indiana history (which would be worth more than the NBA could ever pay).

    It’s pretty solid marketing.

    Don’t count it out.

    Or you could be the next savior in waiting for the Cleveland Cavaliers. Is it really so hard to picture?

  38. Nope… Especially because he gets to taste the NBA life whenever he wants by visiting his brother.

    He’s a guaranteed success that doesn’t have to worry about taking care of his family. Very few prospects have that luxury.

    The more I think about it, the more reasonable it sounds.

  39. Chet, apparently Roy Williams is in Asheville. My brother was his waiter last night. Which means my brother met an iconic coach before he met you. I’m telling you, you have to go have a meal there…

  40. The best thing Trey can do now is to discreetly suggest interesting possibilities to other suitors, remain flexible, and keep his options wide open.

  41. Geoff, Roy has a house here. Here graduated from Roberson HS and coached at Owen HS, both local teams.

  42. I’ll have to make a point of it. I rarely make it down to Biltmore Park. It’s one of those planned developments where everything has been built in the last few years. When I go out it’s usually to Asheville. Biltmore Park is kinda way off by itself about 10 miles from Asheville.

  43. Chet, other than W/L what were Matt Doherty’s problems at UNC. I was wagering sure when he left South Bend he would build the Tar Heel tradition even bigger.

  44. can’t wait to stomp this guy when he plays for SuCks. also Fischer will turn out to be a better forward for us!

  45. HC, well, winning always trumps all but from what I heard the guy was kind of a d**k (no, not a duck). If you’re gonna be a horse’ patoot you’d better be winning games. He wasn’t. The folks that bleed Carolina blue were thrilled when he arrived but they couldn’t get him outta town fast enough when things went sour. I don’t know a soul who wanted him to stay.

  46. Not the first time Geoff has appealed to Chet to visit the Biltmore area restaurant his brother waits tables..This is beginning to puzzle Harvard. What’s up with Chet? For a guy that takes long cross-country trips and frequent outings through the mountains on his motorbike, it would seem like a 10 mile buzz down the road would be less trouble than a walk to the mailbox.

    It’s beginning to sound like Biltmore Park emits something unappealing to Chet; an uppity feel that is repulsive to Chet’s preferred slice of American pluralism found in the quaint pocket of diversity mixed into unassuming contemporary vibe found in Asheville.

    I would quit pushing, Geoff. It doesn’t sound like this one is ever going to get tipped off. Did I mention that my sister works at the Biltmore Mansion cafeteria? She believes Biltmore Park is a plastic ugly wart placed upon a land of once simple sophistication and natural beauty; Blue Ridge suburbia with false ostentatious empty brick palaces that brag about the humble land with flaunting propped up pocket books lacking in similar depth their inhabitants. Metaphorically? Asheville is Hoosier hoops..Biltmore Park epitomizes the new culture of one-and-done basketball.. With Asheville, no one ever wants to leave…With Biltmore Park, there’s no reason to stay.

  47. I really don’t eat out much. When I do it’s usually because I’m in town doing something else and it just happens to be time to eat. My wife and I both enjoy cooking so one of us is usually up to gastronomical adventures.

    Harvard, Biltmore Park is fine if your into the shiny new ‘planned urban development’ thing.

  48. Oddly enough, Biltmore Park is nowhere near Biltmore (as in the house). The entrance to that is within the city in an area called Biltmore Village. It’s a collection of overpriced chain shops, restaurants etc., that were once the homes for those that worked for the Vanderbilts long ago. Local don’t frequent the area much. I’m sure many tourists come to Asheville, visit the Biltmore House and Biltmore Village and leave, thinking they have visited Asheville, but missing downtown Asheville, which, IMHO, is by far the best reason to visit.

  49. Calipari will be on the run in two or three years. Kentucky will be going through coaching changes again..Trey will likely seek stability and go to a school in the state notorious for steeling bigs from Indiana and placing them in the NBA…I’m guessing Duke or NC. If I were to put $50.00 on the line, then I would bet on Coach K and Duke. Lyles just has the look of a Dukie. I’m also seeing Michigan as a possibility…Mitch McGary will give them a strong next couple years in the middle and Trey would be coming in at just the right time. Also a very good coach in Beilein. Personally, I think he has removed IU completely off the list(though he indicates otherwise).

    http://www.fox59.com/videogallery/71773214/Sports/Trey-Lyles-on-Fox-59-Sports-OT-8-10

  50. Geoff,

    Has any of the others gave their verbal then backed away, if so, then pull them. Coaches put in a lot of time and effort to secure a recruit, the verbal, while not binding, allows the coaches to focus now on different recruits and other pieces of the puzzle.

    Even with that, you have to buy into the team first mentality CTC is building here, it is obvious by Lyles statements that he is about himself first, the school & IU second. Again, I say pull his offer and move on.

  51. Mike – he was 14. The coaches hadn’t put in that much work on him. All the 16 year old players are “me first” and school second. You can’t use that criteria for who to recruit. Thank you for ignoring posts #21 & 29-40…

  52. Those adorable little earrings are just to die for.

    In the ever sage-like wisdom of .38 Special, hold on loosely but don’t let go. Recruiting is certainly not dating but it is, to a great extent, about a relationship. In any relationship the person who cares the least holds all the power. My suggestion to CTC would be don’t let Trey think he cares too much or that everything hinges on his decision.

  53. Chet – Did Trey give you any body language cues from your days as a marine interrogator? Is he telling the truth?

  54. I detected a massive shift in ‘The Force’, as if an entire incoming class had suddenly de-committed.

  55. Love the song, but I wouldn’t hang on loosely. I don’t care how young and indecisive he is, he ain’t comin’ to IU.

    Andrew Luck sure looked horrible today. Lessons learned, I guess..Always a new star waiting in the wings. If there is one continuum in sports, it is the quick dust in the wind almost all become. So few stars become truly immortalized in memory. Bird, Magic, Baylor, Russell, West, Robertson, Chamberlain, Jabbar, Jordan,….Lyles? Your name might as well be Bugles McGee.

  56. my mom was lord biltmore’s lover. she’s now the coat check girl.

    don’t you love it when hillbilly waxes poetic. you gotta give it to him. the boy has a way with words. i wouldn’t use the words false and ostentatious next to each other, tho.

    geoff; i wouldn’t take that bet but i would bet $50 that trey doesn’t pick iu.

  57. A kid from Indiana that “loves” IU and then decides to “shop around” is not someone we need…there are too many kids who dream of playing for IU…in the end…it’s heart that will matter (remember Patterson, charlie miller and of course Reid) total flop because they didn’t bleed Iu red nor understand what it meant to play for Indiana…obviously this guy doesn’t either…I live in Raleigh now and as nice as Duke and UNapply be it ain’t IU. I will give it to him it’s nice to have people falling all over themselves for you …my next door neighbor is being recruited heavily by Wake Forest, Yale and Clemson…and it’s definitely been a rush for him.

    Bottom line is I want kids who would quit basketball rather than play for anyone other than IU…yes a pipe dream but then again…you gotta shoot big if you want to win.

  58. Something to remember…he made the commitment a few years ago but arguably he made the commitment every day since then. It’s not like he committed in 8th grade and then stopped thinking about the decision…he made a daily committment along the way..he continued to committ…from 8th grade…to 9th grade…to 10th grade…and up to 21 months before starting his IU career. Something is up…sounds like slime ball from Lexington gave him his first paycheck?

  59. Geoff, I didn’t ignore them, they just have zero merit in me opinion. Your opinion and mine on this issue differ, and it is doubtful we will change each other’s mind. No hard feelings on my end.

    Lyles made an early and ill informed decision. That point can’t be argued. I am not mad at Lyles for backing out at this point, he has to do what suits him best. Problem is that what he is saying doesn’t fit the current mentality of the IU basketball team, that is why I would pull the offer and move on. Same as CTC did with Carlino.

  60. You have a very good point. Jordy was no doubt bleeding crimson in kindergarten. I’ve always believed that was one of the things that separated IU from everyone else. Duke, Georgetown, Kaintuck, Baylor, Xavier, Syracuse, UCLA, even UNC, have rosters filled with guys from no place in particular. Except for the Davis/Sampson eras, IU has had rosters predominated with guys from Indiana and/or bordering the state. Guys who grew up on candy stripes.

    We ARE special.

  61. Mike – my point is that his mentality is EXACTLY the same as all the others guys we’re recruiting. They all want to shop around and enjoy the experience, they just don’t have to explain themselves to IU fans because they didn’t make an immature decision. So all you’re doing is moving on to a kid who is essentially the same, but probably not as talented.

  62. Geoff, I understand your angle, I just don’t buy into it.

    Lyles bought into a IU when it was crap, now that they are on the verge of the best season since 2002, and possibly 1987, he wants to reopen his recruitment for a coach that gets him ready for the NBA? Talent be damned if he is worried about only himself, and that’s what I see here. Again, this is my opinion and how I would approach it if I was CTC, and is the same way CTC has handled this before.

  63. Adirondack (and Chet a little bit) – I don’t buy it. I think you are living in the past. I’m sure there are plenty of kids who dream of being Hoosiers and bleed Crimson, but very few of them have B1G talent, and even fewer have the type of talent that will make IU a powerhouse. They look like Danny Moore and Kory Barnett and maybe occassionally Derek Elston.

    The proof is in the pudding. Why haven’t we been a dominant force in college hoops for the last 15 years even though we have had dominant in-state HS talent. They go elsewhere.

    Everything has changed – AAU has made all the top talent available to every recruiter. These kids spend more time in the summer outside of Indiana than they do at home. There are 25 sports channels showing college basketball games every night in the middle of the season. There are HS games on ESPN and other channels now. The internet… THE INTERNET!!!

    The changes are profound since even just the 90’s.

    It is absolutely delusional to think you can make a competitive team at IU of players who only have IU on their list and are just waiting for an offer. IU has already offered every top player in the state a scholarship. They are all shopping around… lyles, lyle, Bluiett… Apparently Zac Irvin didn’t want to go to IU, nor did VJ Beachem, or Demetrius Jackson (or were they not worthy).

    Who else can you build classes around that will make IU competitive? How many kids not within IU borders do you think bleed Crimson?

    Was our savior Cody Zeller not seriously considering other schools? We were on pins and needles right down to the end. Is he not a true Hoosier because he couldn’t make up his mind as soon as IU came calling?

    Sorry to burst your bubble.

  64. Zack Novak, Plumlees, Zellers(other than Cody), Branden Dawson, Brandon Wood, Mitch McGary, Glen Robinson III, Teague, Deshaun Thomas, Robbie Hummel, Greg Oden, Mike Conley, Matt Howard, Gordon Hayward, Luke Harangody,…Just a few Indiana names off the top my head that didn’t bleed crimson.

    We have two kids coming via A-Hope(both athletic, but with big question marks regarding their overall skill sets)..We had Jeremy Rivers via an NBA friend of Crean’s…We have a friend of Cody that couldn’t hold a stick to most guys on a Ball State roster. We have Oladipo(New Jersey) and Sheehey(Florida). Watford and Creek? Are they from Indiana? We just lost out on landing a very strong prospect, a kid that looks like he’ll be a real force on the inside, that was from Indianapolis. It’s really nothing new. Other than Eric Gordon, Indiana University has more often lost on key recruits that have been supplied to programs with great success in the NCAA tournament over the last decade(schools like UNC, Duke, MSU, Michigan, OSU, Butler, Kentucky).

    Without the commitment of Cody Zeller, Crean would have been up sh*t creek without a paddle. Trey Lyles is just more of the same a considerable group of supremely talented Hoosiers that don’t find our beloved alma mater irresistible. It is imperative that we continue to keep our options open and not just look at Indiana kids. Our cookie jar continues to get raided…It doesn’t matter if it’s slimebag running a one-and-done Hoops Travelodge in Kentucky or the winningest coach in the game sticking his snout across four states into Indiana, the competition pillages our state of elite level basketball talent.

    Crean has wisely balanced his recruiting act and has made it a point to also look into other neighborhoods to do the same. But let’s not kid ourselves, without Cody Zeller getting the panties of “The Establishment’ all in a fuss, losing Lyles would have been just more of the same history. Knight found some of his key additions to championship teams from outside the borders of Indiana(May, Buckner, and Isiah Thomas).

    Nearly the entire roster of the Illinois basketball team is from Illinois. Why aren’t we recruiting more heavily in Chicago?

    And just a reminder to Tsao…I forgot to mention to you a couple days ago that Maurice Creek(not from Indiana) is the name of the great young man that has suffered through the horrible knee injuries. I believe you kept referring to him as Maurice Cheek.

  65. Geoff-

    Good post…I agree with a substantial portion.

    But a give a little credit where credit is due. Some very special Indiana talent has made teams otherwise early exits into contenders and deep tournament teams. And how about Butler’s storied back-to-back trips to championship games? Not a bad showing for a little Indiana school with primarily homegrown talent(yes, and a very talented guard from Louisville). Stevens used the recipe of the old General…Seek your point guard from a wider recruiting radius..Seek your forwards, shooting guards, and post players primarily from the home front.

  66. Mike – he was 14… He didn’t understand “buy-in”. If nothing else, 14 year olds are highly impressionable and college coaches are great salesmen.

  67. Was Roth from Indiana? Can we do a one year “opitons open” exchange program with Illinois? Send Etherington to the Illini and see if he can make their team as an “options open” walk-on? If Etherington can make it on to the Illini squad, we will guarantee him three more years of eligibility after he changes his mind to come back to Indiana. If he can’t make it, he gives up his scholarship to Roth.

    If we’re creating a mini NBA in college basketball with the imbalance of top talent going to programs that are likely bending rules/academic rigors to lure in one-and-dones, would it be inappropriate to allow the trading of players between colleges? If the institution means nothing to the player using it as stepping stone to the NBA, then what is wrong with making their scholarship available on an open market for trade purposes?

  68. Yeah Harvard, I’m not saying they all leave Indiana, just that they go places besides IU…. They don’t bleed Crimson.

    Butler, and many other Mid-major’s success is almost always part luck and part experience. The teams that make the runs are a usually veteran laden teams, and much more physically and mentally advanced than the younger more talented teams. They also usually get a little lucky with a recruit who slipped thru the cracks or improves beyond anyone’s expectations. Their success has a short shelf-life – usually one or two years – against high-major competition.

    IU could get lucky and have some very sporadic episodes of success building a program with mainly crimson-bleeders, but I don’t think IU fans would be happy with that. They certainly weren’t happy with Davis and his mediocrity, laced with shorts interludes of success. I don’t think that it would have been any better an atmosphere if all those kids were in-state recruits.

    I like it when we agree on things Harvard. It’s nice.

  69. I still think its way too far to say that a school means nothing to the player…. It’s just that the college doesn’t mean that much to the HS player who hasn’t INVESTED any time at the school or with those teammates.

    I think Anthony Davis saw UK as a stepping stone to the NBA when he committed, but my guess is he sees is quite differently now. Not enough to change his mind about going pro, but then I don’t know what his family situation is like, and he was a lock to be the #1 pick and make millions. Not everyone has the luxury of being a Zeller, with parents that are financially comfortable and brothers that are making bank in pro basketball.

    I doubt very much that IU meant very much to Dipo before he got here, and now he has become the impetus for a DC-area pipeline and one of IU’s best recruiters. Even if he goes pro after his jr year I’m sure he will bleed Crimson for the rest of his life.

    I can tell you for a fact that IU was nothing more than an opportunity for Keith Smart, but after he invested 2 years and became part of Hoosier lore, it is something that will always be a part of him. His family growing up in Louisiana could have cared less about IU, and his brother could still care less.

    Bottom line, we have tasted one year of success. Up until this year we were begging for recruits to come our way. Now some people just think we can afford to cast aside supremely talented kids because they are acting like… kids.

    We need to cut them a little slack. Once they get to IU and invest a little blood, sweat, and tears, then they will get it. Until then how can we really expect them to?

  70. I have no problem with sporadic success…as long as we have young men with their hearts true to cream and crimson. I love watching teams that can blend new underclassman phenoms into the chemistry and leadership of upperclassman with solid maturing blue collar talent…A solid veteran force with a couple strong thoroughbreds that have NBA level skills..? Isn’t that pretty much what we have going for us at the moment? Not such a bad recipe for winning. Even in Knight’s heyday, we were often the more “sporadic” of the elite crowd. You have to start somewhere. When Indiana went up against Wooden and the Bruins in a ’73 Final Four, we were basically a nobody. It’s not how often you get there, it’s the reward for doing it with pride and honor…And a little luck sure doesn’t hurt as a reward the basketball gods for your staying true to the humble quest a rather humble game started with peach basket.

    Hayward hits a pretty routine 15-footer and Butler has one more banner than about 300 Division 1 schools. Hinkle is a legendary place, Geoff..I had my first visit to Hinkle two years ago to watch a Horizon League tournament game between Butler and Detroit Mercy. ..Unbelievable place that exudes b-ball history.

  71. Geoff-

    You’re on a roll. I agree again.

    But don’t you believe there’s a level of narcissism(fueled by much of our own obsessions with rankings and the simplistic views of basketball as only a talent carnival show) that is creating a breakdown in collective values appreciation for all the many friendships and lessons that can be learned from a team game?

    Would the sport have the same joy without stories of the underdog and teams like Butler, or a Sweet 18 buzzer-beater from a tiny Valpo’s Bryce Drew, that shake us from the conventional thinking that only those most gifted deserve the spoils?

  72. Sure… Although I’m pretty sure when Jon Koncak Broke the $1/yr barrier for scrubs everywhere basketball stopped being about all the idealstic stuff your talking about and started on the path towards the narcissistic, money-grab it is now.

    Ironically though, that very atmosphere almost ensures we will have many more Cinderella moments because of what was discussed in post #80.

  73. Regarding post #82… A solid veteran squad with one young NBA talent was good enough to get us to the Sweet 16. This years team though is liittle different… We added a top-5 recruiting class. That makes it a more like the elite level programs.

    And while some sporadic success may be good enough for you, I am hoping for a tradition of success a little more like Duke or Kansas.

  74. Sorry, Geoff. I don’t think wearing the colors of Kentucky meant diddlysquat to the most those one-and-dones on Calipari’s Neutral Site Globetrotters. They may bond to their coach and to their teammates along the road to their dominance and trophy, but a giant Nike logo on the jersey would have likely served far more inspirational than the name of the revolving door posing as a college.

    Is that what we want the college game to become? Five or six national ‘Globetrotter’ teams traveling to neutral courts making mockery of the other 350+ Division 1 schools participating as dorkified Washington Generals?

  75. I never thought in terms of quantity…I don’t get consumed with banner counts..Quality of wins and getting attached to the personalities of the game gives me plenty of joy. I wouldn’t trade any of the highs and lows my 30 years of following Hoosier basketball. I was probably far more attached to the Davis team that went into Lexington and took down #1 Duke than any previous Hoosier squad I had witnessed bring a championship back to Indiana. The measure of a team’s character is rarely found in the stat sheet or final points displayed on a scoreboard.

  76. Do Hoosier fans have any less love for Mike Woodson because he doesn’t have his name associated with one of our five banners? Calbert Cheaney? AJ Moye?

    Sometimes you think you have everything and you have nothing…Some go through life never appreciating a morning sunrise. My mom and I always spoke rather sporadically. Our rare long conversations blew everything out of the water..We could go on for hours and hours..Sports, politics, news. My wife would look at me and roll her eyes wondering if I was ever going to hang up the phone. Love is never an ideal. It just is.

  77. Man, some of these posts just toss AE under the nearest bus. The kid was a freshman and played the position we were deepest at and you guys make him sound like Pee Wee Herman in candy stripes. I think he’ll be a valuable contributor.

    I have always appreciated the ‘It’s Indiana’ approach that CTC has embraced. He knows it is a special place to so many people. Contrast that to the sleazoid across the Ohio River. Does he even know what name is on the front of the jersey? Does he know anything about its (slimy) history? It could be the Acme Basketball Training Camp for all he cares.

    We embrace all who wore the candy stripes. I have a family full of Kaintuck fans. If a player isn’t part of some sort of championship they’ll forget him before the milk can go bad.

    I don’t believe for a second that their one year mercenaries feel that first tingle of loyalty to their ‘school’.

  78. Let’s put UK at the bottom end of the spectrum… What is at the top end? IU circa 1987? IU 1976? Is it some other program? Is it Bentley College, who regularly makes th DII Final Four, is academically rigorous, and whose scholarship players almost without exception stay 4 years?

    Once we establish that spectrum we can start to place programs somewhere along the line. Where is MSU? Where is UNC? Where is Duke? Where is Louisville? Where is IU?

    Where do you want IU to be…

    My next project is to attempt to define this spectrum, and to do it I’ll need input from Scoopers.

  79. How many NCAA championships does Michigan State have? Would anyone consider their basketball program as sporadically successful during the last 10-15 years under Izzo? 17 years of coaching and one banner. Where does Judd Heathcote belong on a spectrum? Twenty years of coaching and one banner. Two exceptional coaches in the game with 36 years of combined experience and only two championship banners to show for it.

    If Calipari and Kentucky win a championship next year, does his two years trump what Heathcote and Izzo have accomplished for the game of basketball over the last 36?

    Does anyone care about integrity and building values into your program?

    It’s not going to work with this Hoosier fan. We ain’t perfect, but we are a model citizen for the game. Our state has produced talent that spreads far beyond our borders and has provided pride in the heritage of Indiana hoops. We can lock down every kid. We can’t degrade the university to simply satisfy the current obsession of winning with no investment in pride the colors, or merging of academics into the equation of a worthy college experience for an athlete. Kentucky’s banner might as well be a roll of sh*t paper hanging from the rafters of Rump Arena.

    We would all love to have more championships, but not at the cost of knowing we could have done better for the athlete, the values we want to uphold, and the integrity of our cherished and rich basketball program.

  80. May I also add that I believe it to be contemptuously undermining and slithery to expect nothing less than a championship banner out of next year’s Hoosier team. There are no guarantees.

    I have my differences with how our coach wants to sell his personal faith on our hoops stage, but to expect successful recruiting(based on very subjective interpretations of talent with no regard to chemistry development or level of competition in every opponent on a schedule/tournament game), to automatically translate into a sixth banner is a horrific misunderstanding of the game of basketball, the twists of fate, the inopportune injuries, the mystical energy and momentum that can shift on a court from the outcome of one play, the decisions of the men wearing whistles, the chemistry on the floor, and the countless intangibles and immeasurable variables that play into every possession serving as unique to every game. If it were merely about top recruiting classes and the hoarding of top talent, we would all be millionaires from betting on every sure thing gone through a Vegas bookie.

    If Geoff was rich from his knowledge the exacting details to ensure basketball fortune, I doubt he would be wasting his days, forgoing his slathering of suntan lotion onto Spanish supermodels on the decks his mega yacht in the Mediterranean, to be sailing the seas of a barren Scoop to impress upon ears his flawless formulas in hoops to hillbillies and senior citizens majored in philosophy, his infallible expertise found in his little pink stat book.

  81. All Scoop Readers – looking for input on this!

    I am attempting to create a spectrum for college basketball programs that can help define who is successful, in what terms, and finally where we would like IU to land on that spectrum in realistic terms.

    In creating the criteria I tried to look at it from multiple perspectives – the NCAA, the school, the player, the general public, and the coach. A fans ability to be proud of their program would most likely include aspects of all the things I’m putting into this. Each area is rated on a scale of 0-10, with a 10 meaning that that criteria is highly relevant or important to the program.

    Criteria 1: Clean Program (NCAA) – rates the program’s history of staying within the NCAA guidelines

    Criteria 2: Winning Program (General Public) – rates the program’s history of winning games, getting to the NCAA tournament, and winning conference and national titles.

    Criteria 3: Graduating Players (Institution) – rates the programs history and ability to graduate its players in a timely fashion.

    Criteria 4: NBA Draft Picks (Recruit/Player) – rates the programs history of sending players to the next level, and most importantly drafted in the first round.

    Criteria 5: Effort & Attitude (Coach) – rates the programs ability to get it players to maximize their effort and the teams potential. Includes things like hustle, intensity, teamwork, team congeniality, and sportsmanship.

    So the scale is from 0-50, with the ideal program being one that never gets in trouble, whose players always play hard, get along with each other, display impeccable sportsmanship even under the toughest circumstances, wins the national championship every year, all while graduating a 100% of its players, and then sends them all to the NBA as first round draft picks.

    So while a team like UK would rank high in Criterias 2 & 4, and maybe even 5, they would rank very low on Criterias 1 & 3. Overall UK would be only about average or slightly above average as a team you could feel good about being a fan of. I’m guessing they would have a score in the low-30’s. (3, 8, 4, 8, 7 = 30). (UK certainly wouldn’t be the lowest, with teams like Tennessee and New Mexico State scoring low in several areas – they have been in trouble with the NCAA and have terrible graduation rates, but they also don’t win conference or national titles or put many players in the NBA).

    IU would be a little higher, like mid-30’s (9, 7, 9, 3, 7 = 35) because although we have a winning and clean tradition while graduating players who give great effort, we have had times of slippage and a coach who wasn’t always the most sportsmanlike. We also have not had a great history, especially recently, of getting players to the NBA (which is important from many players perspectives).

    The standard would probably be Duke with a score in the low-40’s (9, 8, 9, 8, 9 = 43). Not only does Duke consistly put out teams that contend for championships, but they have been extremely clean, graduate their players at an extremely high rate, have the most alums on NBA rosters, and have players and a coach that have historically (Laettner excluded) conducted themselves with class and exuded effort.

    So my questions are:

    did I miss any important criteria?

    If not, how do you think IU rates?

    Where would you like to see IU rate? Why?

  82. Duke, Duke, Duke, Duke, Duke…How many times must you gluttonous swallow your gold standard until it comes up the same color as Purdue pUKe?

    Dukes of Hazard, dude. Who would want to graduate from Kentucky?

    Seth Davis and “The Establishment” you pay monthly membership in slathering doo-doos on Duke while mocking our silly old little success of merely making a Sweet 16 every 10 years is criteria enough to know how much envy exists in their interpretation our “rating.” Give them the sun, the planets, and every one-and-done lassoed to every moon, and they still are left festering in the envy of wanting those damn candy stripes.

  83. Well, as I’ve stated before I am a Duke-hater, but it doesn’t change the fact that they have a 100% GSR, have never had a major NCAA violation, have been to more Final Fours than anyone in the last 25 years, have more players in the NBA that any other program, have a coach that is universally respected, and teams that unquestionably bring hustle, intensity, and teamwork to each game.

    Eliminate the name Duke from that last paragraph and why wouldn’t you want to insert your program’s name there?

  84. When I witnessed Maurice Creek taking the time to talk with some bouncy Hoosier kids 30 minutes after the conclusion of a game at Assembly last season, I could only think of the most important criterion: Everlasting hope founded in decency, kindness, and integrity. That man is a winner independent of ever putting up another jumper on the floors of McCracken. He put more pride in my Hoosier heart than any number of banners or anything having to do with his years of dedication to the game of basketball.

  85. Hoosier Basketball is grass roots. Some get it..Some use it while pretending to get it. Some run from it because it’s too much to believe in.

    Duke is a great school, but it ain’t Indiana. When I watch their fans do that weird hopping up and down routine, I almost feel sorry for them. They need to turn themselves into human pogo sticks because their a$$es are so tight in presumptuousness.

  86. Ok, but do you think that those moments don’t happen at almost every other school in D1?

    I remember going to othe summer camps besides IU’s when I was in Junior high and HS where the players, who were counselors at the camp, had a great time with us. Brad Johnson and Lorenzo Hand at FSU camp. Todd Day, Lee Mayberry and Oliver Miller at Arkansas camp. They were all kind and decent. I’m sure even Doron Lamb took time to hang out with kids after some games over his 2 years at UK.

    It doesn’t mean you shouldn’t be proud of Creek, but those things aren’t exclusive to IU.

  87. Keep trying, Geoff. You’ll convince yourself eventually that Indiana isn’t Indiana.

  88. Chet, Clarion, Tsao, Guest, Coachv, Mike P, Podunker, Aruss, real IU fan, Dustin, Reggie, etc

    What are your thoughts on #95…

  89. Chet, Clarion, Tsao, Guest, Coachv, Mike P, Podunker, Aruss, real IU fan, Dustin, Reggie, Husky, Remora, Pickles, Spot, Kartje, Korman, Rico, Reggie, etc

    What are your thoughts on #102?

  90. I’ll be back in an hour. Skull screwing Duke into my ear is beginning to invade my internet porn time slot.

  91. What are you talking about Harvard? Name one thing I’ve said that isn’t true or reasonable?

    You seem to be under some strange impression that only IU players are decent, kind, and have integrity. (btw, is that true of all Hoosiers to ever wear the stripes? Todd Leary? Sherron Wilkerson? Do you think all Hoosier fans would think that RMK was a decent and kind man?)

    You act like the only way to correctly root for a team is how IU fans do it. (do you also feel sorry for those rock, chalk, jay hawkers?)

    You seem to think that IU is the standard for what college basketball is all about. That’s great! I live and love IU hoops. I’m not a fan of any other program. I WANT IU to be the standard for college basketball.

    It just seems that you are the one talking yourself into a reality of IU basketball that doesn’t actually exist (at least currently).

  92. I think this horse (the subject of Lyles decommitting) has been beaten to death. I’ll just ad one more comment, which, unless I missed it, I do not think has been covered.

    Mr. Lyles needs to think about which college basketball program will best prepare him for life as a successful NBA player. Preparing to play in the NBA is short sighted. A lot of programs can do that. Obtaining success is one thing, hanging on to it, making the most out of it, and making sure that success does not ruin one’s life is something else entirely. i would encourage young Mr. Lyles to think beyond simply getting to the NBA. I would encourage MR. Lyles to think about a college that would fortify his overall foundation and helping him become a mature and responsible man that is capable of managing the success that often comes with being in the NBA.

    Look at the data Mr. Lyles. A lot of talented men become professional athletes but many are ruined by the experience. What percentage of professional athletes are bankrupt within five years of ending their careers? How many professional athletes become the focus of news stories about subjects other than their athletic prowess? What percentage of professional athletes are estranged from their children? Mr. Lyles, your God-given talent may get you to the NBA, but its your character and overall development that will determine your success as a man. And if you’re as physically gifted as you seem to think you are, getting to the NBA won’t be the primary challenge. Handling that success will be.

  93. This has nothing to do with Duke either. There are lots of programs where if you look at them under this criteria that would rate higher than IU. Michigan State would be one of them (since you mentioned them earlier).

    That’s why if you don’t agree that it’s the case, and that I’m missing some other important criteria, that I am hoping you can articulate it.

    I’m not putting IU down or saying Indiana isn’t Indiana, I’m saying that there is room for improvement and that whatever experience you had from Indiana Basketball X number of years ago isn’t true for the current generation of fans, and not only that but it’s unlikely to ever happen the way you experienced it before.

    So the question is what is the best possible scenario for IU given the current and forecasted climate of college basketball?

  94. Geoff,

    While I ponder post #95, I have to ask how many years do we go back? ESPN done something along these lines on 2008 or 2009. If I remember right they used the 1984-85 season as the “modern era”, which I’m not sure why. My personal thought is the modern era is includes the 3-point shot that was put in place in the 1986-87 season.

    Thoughts?

  95. Po – great thoughts. What I want to know is, given your set of criteria – preparing him for the NBA in all areas skill, physical, mental, and maturity – what program would you HONESTLY suggest he go to if you were his father?

    So basically if your son were a hyper-talented, sought-after HS prospect whose goal was to play in the NBA and could essentially pick whatever school in the country to go to, who would you lean towards?

    If you want to email me the answer, so you don’t take heat from IU fans, you can reach me at geoff@besseydesigns.com

    I’d also like your thoughts on #95. It doesn’t have to do with the Lyles situation.

  96. From this thread I think post #104 is by far the best followed closely by post #102. I wasn’t able to finish most of the others because (a) there are too many posts signed Geoff that I have to carefully skip and (b) I am very busy watching video reruns of Kevin Wilson’s comments from the Big Ten Media Days.

  97. Geoff, too much effort and too subjective for me. Plug in Indiana at #1 and Kaintuck as last place in the NAIA.

    Po, Lyles may have the skills to be the next Kwame Brown.

  98. I’m thinking that all history should be taken into account, with more recent history being weighted much more heavily – so the last 25 years, which coincides exactly with the 3-pt line.

    It’s obviously not an exact science and subjective to a point, but each criteria is still measurable.

    Look forward to your thoughts!

  99. If I JUST wanted NBA exposure but at least some legitimacy that he was attending a real university I’d send him to North Carolina. Good school, every game gets seen, and they aren’t likely to get the Death Penalty before he ever has a chance to play a game. Too many people hate Duke.

    If you send your kid to Kentucky everyone will think he can’t read and it’s just a matter of time before they go on probation again.

  100. Hmmm, I don’t know Chet, I think it would be harder to justify being a fan of Tennessee. They are like UK lite. They cheat, recruit one-and-dones and then turn them into undraftable players, have a lower graduation rate than UK, put teams on the floor that are constantly questioned for their effort, have questionable citizens, all without the benefit of actually winning anything.

    I’d rate them lower.

  101. Geoff, I don’t know enough about the young man to be able to answer your question in an appropriate manner. What is his intellectual capacity? What are his interests outside of basketball? Can he handle being away from home or does he need a support network close by?

    But just looking at it generally, the following school comes to mind. IU, Kansas, NC, Duke and Michigan State. I think all the coaches are solid and have demonstrated integrity over a long period of time. I might include Florida in that list, but then again, it is a part of the SEC and therefore somewhat suspect.

    But I would argue it this way. He’s an Indiana kid. He will be appreciated much more at Iu than he would be attending an out-of-state school. If he had success, he’d be a legend within his home state.

  102. Geoff, that’s true about Tennessee, though I’m not sure where they entered the conversation. While my wife went there neither of us are fans for many of the reasons you mentioned. With Kaintuck, though, you have tradition. They are the only school to be sanctioned by the NCAA in every decade of its existence. UT isn’t even close to that kind of consistency (nor is anyone else). I don’t see UT and Kanituck even being in the same conversation for lots of reasons, though they are both plenty slimey.

  103. Po, that’s a great point. As an Indiana kid any player gets treated as a hero for staying home. Eric Montross, Sean May, et al, are just another bunch of guys passing through the gate at UNC. I can’t imagine anyone having warm fuzzies about Duke.

    It’s interesting, Duke is viewed as far more prestigious outside NC than within its borders. I would much, much rather receive medical care at UNC than at Duke as far as the facilities go. I personally know a number of health care professionals, including a couple surgeons, that left the crumbling facilities of Duke to work across town at UNC. Their ENT program, which I interacted with, virtually shut down because the UNC program was far more prestigious and they couldn’t justify trying to compete in areas such as cochlear implantation with a top 5 program so close.

    I don’t know their admissions policies but it seems like any fairly bright kid around here that wants to go gets in. When I hear them called comparable to an Ivy League school I just laugh. Kids around here trying for Ivy League schools apply to Duke as a ‘safety school’.

    Once you get past reputation it simply isn’t all that great. Most of those “top whatever college” weigh very strongly on name recognition (i.e. prestige).

  104. For the record, I’m not a UNC fan either, though I admire what their basketball program manages to accomplish.

  105. I don’t see UT and Kanituck even being in the same conversation

    And yet you put them in the same phrase. Dumb. Chet you have to take out your cochlear implant and throw it away before you can truly reJoyce.

  106. Chet, Clarion, Tsao, Guest, Coachv, Mike P, Podunker, Aruss, real IU fan, Dustin, Reggie, Husky, Remora, Pickles, Spot, Kartje, Korman, Rico, Casey, davis.

    I just like doing the roll call….Carry on. Scoop is currently experience a bloggers crunch. Are we over limit? Does this mean I can’t take my final year of eligibility? I thought for sure that Geoff was going to the NBA(Narcissistic Blogging ASSociation). I think that puth Reggie on the thort listhp.

  107. Chet – UT came into the conversation (as did essentially every school, although Tenn was named specifically) in post #95…

    I thought it was an interesting premise. But maybe it forces some IU fans to be too introspective.

  108. It’s the off-season. The discussion topics are limited… Since I don’t get into IU football I need things like this from time to time to keep me occupied and interested.

  109. Chester:

    There’s more to basketball than winning.

    Bob Knight paid tuition for some of his former players — just ask Hotel Boy, he can confirm it. Meanwhile Tan Cream is baiting and switching on these young souls thus causing unspeakable harm (bordering on ineffable). Cream is not only embarrassing Joyce and the entire Hoosier Nation but he is likely causing the anger of God. Don’t you fear the anger and wrath of God, Chester? Well, I think you should. (Romans 1:18)

  110. By the way Harvard, isnt it at least a little bit ironic that I am being called narcissistic while attempting to compliment and give credit to other programs by people who seem to only hold IU up as THE model program/university/experience and put down other programs.

  111. Who is he causing unspeakable harm too? Do you have some inside information on a Sandusky-like scandal?

    I think Crean is scared of God, even though it’s silly.

  112. Winning play, as designed by Tan Cream: “Have Oladipo try to get to the rim, make sure he has his shot blocked by Darius Theus and then the loose ball bounces to Sheehey who will then knock down his only basket of the second half.” Genius, sheer genius, don’t you think? As long as the Lord of Happenstance is smiling on you there’s nothing to fear — is it, Chester?

    “Joab son of Zeruiah began to count the men but did not finish. God’s wrath came on [him and his people] on account of this numbering.” (Chronicles 27:24)

    I tell ya, Chester, it doesn’t sound good at all. If Crean had a minimal amount of decency left in him this would be a good moment to resign.

  113. Wait… So God is mad at Crean, but he rewarded him with a win on a botched play? So very wrathy of Him.

  114. I think God was rewarding Jordy..What a horrible and unfair burden he would have placed upon his shoulders if we lose that game. The VCU ball pressure gave him fits. Knowing the fine young man Hulls is, he would have blamed himself. Gives me faith that he did not have to carry that weight..Only a couple weeks prior to the tournament, the kid was unfairly labeled in a nationally circulated Seth Davis piece as the “worst defender in all of college basketball.” He was the engine and solid leader of the Hoosiers. His work ethic is unmatched. He deserved better and God saw fit to not see him beat himself up. God may have looked beyond the warped narcissism of a disingenuous faith that sells Christ for personal gain and rewarded a quieter and far less obvious faith held in a true and stronger heart. The spirit entered the ball that moved to Sheehey and through the nets it fell as a reward the goodness Hulls displayed in the face of evil ridicule that made no attempt at balance or fairness. Hulls deserved a better hand and the Lord turned to him in his time of need.

  115. God is still mad at Crean for playing VJ instead of Roth and Remy. Shouldn’t we save ourselves from curse and at least give Roth his minutes now?

    JONES SUCKS! (according to the most humble and introspective blogger of Scoop…How quickly we forget)

  116. Correction: The VCU ball pressure gave him(Jordy) fits. Crean left him out there alone to die and then had the gall to get in his face and embarrass him on national TV instead of the four other guys on the floor wanting nothing to do with the ball under the early pressure. Thank God for Remy having the nutsack of a seasoned veteran.

  117. Today is going to be a long day. Trying to come to grips with the news that God cares about basketball.

  118. Crean recently tweeted that he wants to one day coach for God..Because it’s heaven.

    If Pete Rose can fix baseball games, surely God could encourage a basketball to go through a small rim occasionally….or not.

    God is most likely too busy to catch every basketball game..We certainly know he doesn’t watch much Penn State football. There’s that continual sorting out and informing all the verbals that decommitted; those that decided after all of fame, fortune, folly, and succeeding years the deterioration of brilliant mind and obsessions a youthful body that the School of Eternal Eligibility might still be worth a little more serious consideration. Unfortunately, it doesn’t appear God is still holding their empty faith in a final scholly and the “keeping options open” are now the words to open the doors below for every hot prospect to hotly go.

  119. Winning play, as designed by Tan Cream: “Have Oladipo try to get to the rim, make sure he has his shot blocked by Darius Theus and then the loose ball bounces to Sheehey who will then knock down his only basket of the second half.” Genius, sheer genius, don’t you think? As long as the Lord of Happenstance is smiling on you there’s nothing to fear — is it, Chester?

    “Joab son of Zeruiah began to count the men but did not finish. God’s wrath came on [him and his people] on account of this numbering.” (Chronicles 27:24)

    I tell ya, Chester, it doesn’t sound good at all. If Crean had a minimal amount of decency left in him this would be a good moment to resign.

  120. Geoff, Chet, Harvard, Remora, Clarion, Pope Benedict XVI and Steve from Ottawa: which one do you think looks better, post #140 or post #132? And what are your thoughts on cochlear implants?

    God’s wrath will come on us, I tell you, on account of Crean’s numbering (of men and scholarships). It came once on account on Sampson’s numbering (of phone calls). If Crean has a minimal amount of decency he resigns this week.

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