115 comments

  1. Darn it! It looks like it’s “Win Two” Day. Looks like Remorat will have to get busy working on his next work of substanceless mockery.

    To summarize his work thus far:
    “Twenty Loss Tom”
    Twenty Whines Tom
    Twenty (seven) WINS Tom!

    “Win Two” Day
    Won TWO already!

  2. Mixed emotions today. I cringed watching Tre break his leg. Hopefully, it’s a clean break without any damage to the connective tissue. He looked great before the injury. Looks like he’ll be the red shirt QB this year.

    It’s not very often you hear a TV announcer say, “It was all Indiana today.” UMass made a lot of mistakes, but you have to salute Wilson, his staff and the players for this good win. IU’s offense just wore them down, executed pretty well and kept the pressure on the entire game. IU’s back-up QB looked good, for what he was allowed to do. I’m sure when he went in, given that the game was already secure, the plays he was given to run were pretty conservative. I would have liked to see IU throw down field a bit more, but again, they just took what UMass gave them. I thought the running backs did a great job with extra effort throughout the game. And Bolser is a MAN!

    Defense started off shaky and had a lot of trouble with mis-direction plays in the first half. But they settled down and played O.K. Still not impressed with the linebackers, but overall, they have improved.

    2-0 with Ball State coming up in B-town. Got to win that game. And based on what I saw today, I think we will.

  3. Poor Tre. Can’t really blame that on having him run(though that was obviously good strategy). That injury could have easily happened in the pocket. Just one of those things.

    We got our win against an FBS, that so many have been begging for, team but does anybody think they were better than ISU? I hope they were but it’s not likely.

    I think the rain had a lot to do with the offense slowing down in the second half. That and CKW calling off the dogs.

    All in all, I thought it was a really good win but it’s hard to assess how good we are against a team as sloppy as UMass. We’re better that they are.

    Did you guys hear them talking about the receiver that, I believe this is what they said, gave IU a verbal commitment, instead signed with Notre Dame when they offered late, and then transferred to UMass when he wasn’t getting PT? Today he gets his butt handed to him by the Hoosiers. Bet he never imagined that would ever happen.

  4. I complained about their poor effort against an FCS team (ISU) last week that they played in Bloomington. I think they played really well against a team that, admitedly, is one year removed from FCS but is now a Division I FBS team and was playing at home. Of course, the ‘downer’ is Tre’s injury. Just have to hope for the best for him and the team.

  5. Of course I meant BCS not FBS though I think it will be a while before either UMASS or IU in a ‘major’ bowl.

  6. Did anyone catch the UMass coach’s comment at the half? He said something like, “I think we’re making them (IU) look a lot better than they really are.” Wow, what a jerk. Well coach, your team didn’t make IU look any worse in the second half, either. You got out coached, big time. Our young and inexperience team is a lot better than yours is.

    I watched Spriggs (Offensive left tackle) all day. Damn, he’s really good. With 40 more pounds and some experience, he’s going to be a beast.

    I hope IU’s 2nd and 3rd string QBs have been paying attention. We’re going to need their best efforts if we’re going to win four games this year. Losing Tre was terrible luck. He’s such a great dual threat. Does anyone think Wilson going to let his back-up run the ball?

  7. No question that losing Tre takes a dimension away from the offense. I admit to being surprised at how much his passing had improved and he is undeniably a great runner. It is rare to see a ‘running quarterback’ really become a polished passer, especially this quickly.

    The offense is gonna change.

  8. #12–RhinoHoosier

    Post game–Coach Wilson said a medical redshirt would be applied for(for Tre). He saw no problem for him to get it.

    The defense looked better today with only one big glaring exception. The long TD pass in the 1st quarter. The burnt cornerback was playing in only his 2nd start. The coaches left him in. Afterwards, he played a lot smarter. It appeared that UMass’s only success was by using misdirection or trick plays because of IU’s pursuit to the ball. That pursuit was the best I’ve seen in a long time.

    IU’s 600+ yards was the highest since 2001 at Wisconsin.

  9. You know, when I was a FB coach I never pulled a guy out immediately after a boneheaded play. I always figured the guy had already shown he was the best I’ve got at that position so why humiliate him in front of everybody. He knows he screwed up. No need to put it up in lights and kill his confidence.

    Maybe that’s why I never made the big time.

  10. I believe the Medical Redshirt rule may be granted if he has played less than 30% of the season if he has suffered a season (but not career) ending injury (if Tre does not return this year).

    I also think that Tre was a ‘true’ sophomore which means he still had a chance to request yet another season (as in Creek’s case). I’m hoping the injury was indeed a clean break and involved no soft tissue (ligaments, etc). We all pray for his full recovery so we can enjoy Tre a full three more years,

  11. vgBMG…good comments. I agree, the defense played very solid after that first UMass TD series, and particularly in the second quarter when they established they were the better team and weren’t going to lose.

    I agree with your observations about pursuit, controlling the line of scrimmage defensively and the way the defender beat on the TD recovered and played a good game.

    It really doesn’t matter who we were playing. This game was about how ‘we’ approach and play, something IU had not done well in quite a while. More and more it is obvious we have a very fine football staff of very committed coaches. It was very interesting to watch the interaction between the coaches and players on the sideline.

  12. So sad about Tre. It was just a big ‘ol body falling on his leg at an awkward position.

    It happens.

    The good news is a clean tib/fib break usually heals up just fine (and quickly) and rehab is pretty straightforward.

    If that’s what it is he could be starting rehab by the end of the season.

  13. #16-Chet—I don’t know if they do or do not keep a record of “records” for a quarter/half/3 quarters. But they do keep totals for games. Probably somewhere, someone does break it down as such. I do not know what those “records” might be. The 1st half offensive totals were the highest that I am aware of in at least 15 years. The 2001 game at Wisconson might have had higher totals in the 1st half.

    At the home games the scoreboard gives all 4 quarters as cumulative game totals rather individual quarterly totals.

  14. Positives:

    This team is better than last year

    The Wilson era has set roots

    Coffman will be adequate and more

    I believed what my eyes saw about the D against ISU

    UMass proved to be just as UConn exposed them to be

    Vegas offered a generous, soft line on the game

    I on the other hand thank them for my $izable chunk of their generosity

    BSU will be a tough game which will also be positive for IU

  15. Well, Tre is a definite for the medical redshirt, it’s 2 full games or less that make a player eligible, so we’re good there. If it was indeed a clean break, that’s great news. He may be ready for spring practice. Now, the aim this year is to get Coffman to the point of being a capable and adequate backup for NEXT year. Next year is huge, in regards to the schedule, it provides us a MUST in terms of a bowl game. As for this year, I’m trying not to feel the imminent crushing dissapoint that’s coming. The reality of Tre’s injury is still sinking in, cuz’ I was just gettinmg to the point of thinking that MAYBE we had a shot to win 6, that’s changed now. I hope to see the growth we need from the team, & more competeive play. That being said, my heart won’t be able to take a 4 or 5 win season with narrow losses that likely would have been wins with Tre at the helm. I won’t be able to take that frustration & heartache, so I hope for something in between, I hope that doesn’t sound too odd. Well, obviously, what I really hope for is 13 wins, but, you know what I mean.

  16. Tre’s injury is a set back and we wish him God’s speed to a complete recovery.
    Well, we have 2 under our belt and there is no question that we are an improved team so good work, coaches and players!
    Next Saturday is BSU who will be our first credible opponent and our performance should be an indication as to whether or not we have any chance of a conference win. Would love to see us beat BSU and one conference opponent but even if we finish uo with just 3 wins, it is still progress!

  17. but even if we finish uo with just 3 wins, it is still progress!

    Indubitably, or as Tsao would put it: indudablemente. But beyond the whole obviousness of it I would like to offer some hard evidence, numbers: in Bill Lynch’s last season we had 5 (five) wins, and we finished the season with a win at Purdue (34-31). So, no doubt, if we finish with three wins this year, all of them non-conference cupcake wins, now: that‘s progress. And quem pode negar isso? (Certamente não Tsao!)

  18. but even if we finish uo with just 3 wins, it is still progress!

    Indubitably, or as Tsao would put it: indudablemente. But beyond the whole obviousness of it I would like to offer some hard evidence, numbers: in Bill Lynch’s last season we had 5 (five) wins, and we finished the season with a win at Purdue (34-31). So, no doubt, if we finish with three wins this year, all of them non-conference cupcake wins, now: that’s progress. And quem pode negar isso? (Certamente não Tsao!)

    Carlton, very well said, great post!

  19. Carlton, this has been discussed, ad nauseam, on the Scoop. At the end of the day the reality is, 1) Coach Hep had built a bowl quality team, and, 2) they had gotten progressively worse every game, not season but game, that BL was at the reins.

    In fairness to BL, I think he knew he was not head coaching material as he had not, and has not subsequently, sought out a head coaching position. He had previously failed as a head coach and he has not sought to be one since. At IU it was just by default.

    Good for him. It’s not his fault. I’m not particle physicist material. We all do what we can.

    Let’s not pretend if he had stayed one more year we’d be challenging for…well, anything.

    That’s just silly.

  20. Chet,

    I agree that most of what you wrote is silly. For example:

    In fairness to BL, I think he knew he was not head coaching material as he had not, and has not subsequently, sought out a head coaching position.

    If you had any idea what fairness means you’d realize what you wrote applies to Wilson as well. He was never a head coach before (except at high school, record 0-10) and it’s not clear if he’ll pursue a head coaching career when he’s done with Indiana.

    Oh, one other thing: though what you wrote could easily apply to Wilson, it does not (I repeat: does not) apply to Lynch. Lynch was a HC at Butler 1985-89 and again a HC at Ball State 1995-2002, plus one year at DePauw (2004).

    Bottom line: your post is worthless.

  21. No where to go but up, I suppose.

    That too applies to Wilson. Lynch had an average of 5 wins per season in Bloomington; Wilson will reach that average when? By 2017 at the earliest? It all seems kinda sad, as you say…

  22. I take you’re a fan of Isidore Auguste Marie François Xavier Comte then? No wonder most of your posts are so utopian, grandiose, quixotic, transcendental and sometimes downright chimerical. But at least you’re a prolific writer unlike, for example, Clarion the Curmudgeon.

  23. Well, Idk IUfan. When I look around the conference, Illinois got pummelled at ASU, Iowa lost at home to Iowa state, Penn State is 0-2 including a loss at home to Ohio. Point being, I’m not convinced anymore, not at all in fact, that a conference win is such a pipe dream(if Tre were here, I’d say our shot at a bowl game shot up from 0 to roughly 33%, a huge gain). As it is, I’m almost convinced that we will be competetive with several big ten opponents, alas, I do ultimately agree with you that progress for this season probably won’t be measured by our record. As I said before, I just hope that the loss of Tre doesn’t cost us a shot at a bowl & more importantly, better recruits in the immediate future. I’ve decided that the bright side of Tre’s injury is, that there may well be a day in 2015, Tre’s 5th year, that we’re actually blessed in disguise by this injury, a lot can happen between now & then, but I’m trying to look on, or more accurately, FIND a bright side to it.

  24. I supported BL when he was here because that is what I personally think a fan should do. I critiqued he and the staff as not setting the bar high enough, being tough enough and being accomplished enough as coaches. They probably would have been better served in the BE-MAC-Sun Belt level of competition because they were brown penny loafers amongst tuxedos in the B10. There is no doubt Coach Wilson holds the recipe to IU’s FB success. Like Coach Crean he needs that time for it to brew.

  25. Carlton——–be patient with Wilson—–when he gets the IU football program back up to where BL had it, many of the guys who post on this site will propose erecting a statue of KW outside of Memorial Stadium——–

  26. Carlton, while we’re at it, let’s also include a debate about the true cause of the Civil War! Should it be considered the “War of Northern Aggression” or the Civil War? And while we’re at it, let’s revisit whether Bob Knight should have been fired by IU!

    I applaud your loyalty to Bill Lynch; he is a very nice man. But the debate is inane, it’s over, and Indiana football won. I suggest you move on. As they say, “It is what it is.”

  27. A coach with Big Ten experience? I imagine schools will be lining up at his door with offers. That’s what usually happens.

  28. Barbwire, yes, and if Wilson’s team ever suffers the worst blow-out loss in school history on national TV, those same supporters will be calling for his job, just like we were doing after Wisconsin gave Lynch the most humiliating beat-down of the century, two years ago.

    Keep tilting at those windmills if it makes you feel better.

  29. ANYWAYS….How do you guys think we’ll do against Ball State this weekend? I saw that they put up 27 points against Clemson this past weekend (even though they lost). I haven’t seen them play at all this season yet but judging from our last two games against them, I gotta say I’m pretty nervous, especially now that Roberson is out! Let’s hope Coffman can run the offense somewhat efficiently and the defense continues to play strong (I know they have played two opponents that aren’t too talented).

  30. Hoosierfan12, you’re right to be nervous. BSU will be our first real test this season against a team that has given us no end of trouble in the past. IMO, if IU were playing in the MAC, we’d fall right around the mid point of that conference and I think BSU may be one of the stronger units in that group, so plenty to be concerned about. However, I think we can win…we’re at home and I’m hoping the team will rally behind Coffman. Our D which certainly has improved, needs to really step up.

  31. HoosierFan12; if Coffman plays decent, IU will win a game that involves lots of points. If Coffman has a bad day, IU will lose.

    IU’s defense probably can’t stop BSU’s running game all day. But if BSU has to play catch-up, then I think IU will take advantage and handle them.

    I predict a third consecutive win for IU.

  32. I still think Indiana wins, but it should be pointed out that BSU quarterback Keith Wenning is pretty good and completed 23 of 29 for 179 and two scores on IU last year. Again, I still think IU gets this, but Ball State can throw it too, is my point.

  33. Also, Podunker, while I’m at it, I realized I never answered your question about exhibition games. I’m not sure how the guarantees work for those, because they obviously don’t fetch as much as a regular game if they get anything. You’ll remember that about six years ago, the NCAA changed it so teams couldn’t play those barnstorming teams like EA Sports or Athletes in Action anymore. They get two preseason opportunities which can either be closed-door scrimmages with D-I teams or open exhibition with D2 and D3 teams. Basically, every year IU does one exhibition that the fans can see — and pretty much solely for their benefit — and one closed-door scrimmage that they can’t that is more for true preparation purposes. The D-I games by rule can not be publicized at all. Media can’t watch either and they’re not even supposed to tell us about it. And for the open scrimmage, they can make it challenging like they did against D-2 Ferris State a few years ago or they can keep it in-state. (I don’t know anything about Indiana Wesleyan, so I don’t want to suggest they won’t be challenging, but still.)

  34. MAC teams seem to roll out really good quarterbacks like nobodies’ business. It makes no sense to me at all. I suppose it’s just a throwing league.

    We have every reason to fear Ball State. It’s great to be 2-0 but we haven’t proven anything to anybody but ISU and UMass. Nothing to write home about.

  35. Carlton, I would whisper in my Carioca’s ear, ” “L’amour pour principe et l’ordre pour base; le progrès pour but” (“Love as a principle and order as the basis; progress as the goal”). She would then slap me silly, whisper back ‘meu bigotito’…and lots of ‘progresso’…’always progresso’!

    Actually, too many depressed and sometimes depressing fans here. I really do believe we are on the edge of a great era…ordem e progresso…e samba! (Much greater than Ohio U or Iowa State)..temos que aspirar a mais…se o Brasil pode ser um poder sem Garrincha, Pepe ou Pelé, por que não o Hoosiers?

  36. Barbwire,

    You are absolutely correct. Podunker deserves no attention, his brain is imbibed with solipsism. He is literally immune to logic. For example, he remains obsessed with our 2010 loss at Wisconsin (20-83, when as you know we kept it close until Ben had to go due to hip problems). Meanwhile our 2011 loss at Wisconsin (7-59) is one he treasures, because it signals a change of culture!

    Podunker I really feel sorry for you. For though history seems to repeat itself you never ever learn.

    Take it easy.

  37. Tsao,

    Garrincha is one of the most depressing stories ever lived, heard, told, imagined…

    Bring back Steve Alford!

  38. Carlton, yeah…I know…nevertheless, it doesn’t take away from his greatness.

    A story Pele used to tell; he’s moving down the middle of the field trailing as Garrincha takes it down the right side. About 35 yards away entering the penalty area, Pele starts yelling, ‘Garrincha! Garrincha!!’, pounding and pointing at his own chest. Garrincha, near the corner flag looks up and yells back at Pele: ‘que mamilo??!!’ (which t_t?!)

  39. Funny. Ever so playful the one and only Mane Garrincha! More connected to the joy of the moment than anyone who ever lived on this planet. Still a very tragic story. Not dumb like for example Paul Gascoine‘s but downright tragic like George Best meets Forrest Gump meets Gabriel García Márquez meets Franz Kafka.

  40. What a midfield!…personally, I thought Gump would have been a great #7 and Kafka a #9…

    By the way, are you acquainted with the name Julio Mazzei, the Professor?

    HC, no problem…just sharing funny anecdotes about another sport… have good feelings about Hoosiers. There was something very different about the game Saturday…

  41. Carlton, I ware your comments like a badge of honor.

    But please tell us all, what will Wilson have to do in order for you to acknowledge that IU football is moving in the right direction? Is it even possible in your mind? Does he have to win five games, six, eight? How many wins will convince you that Glass made the right call and that IU football is on the right track?

    My prediction is that when Wilson produces his first winning season, you will no longer bless this blog with your sage observations and astute criticisms of IU’s football coach. A while back, we had this poster that went by the name of 4guards………………..

  42. But please tell us all, what will Wilson have to do in order for you to acknowledge that IU football is moving in the right direction? Is it even possible in your mind? Does he have to win five games, six, eight? How many wins will convince you that Glass made the right call and that IU football is on the right track?

    Poopdunker (ware this now, eh? It fits.),

    Good one. Why am I not convinced yet?

    I mean he produced such a fine season last season (one win) and I am still not convinced? What convinced you? The Michigan State game? The Nortwestern game? The Wisconsin game where they could have scored 140+ on us?

    Oh, I forgot……. What convinced you Glass made the right call is all the things you know will happen but you don’t have any proof for whatsoever.

    Don’t you worry, I’ll still be here if you’re here. Someone has to produce more badges for you to ware.

  43. Hell Chet just as we suspected multiple clones of 4tickturds. The bacteria did spread before containment.

  44. ND had the “Four Horsemen”…We have “4tickturds”..Podunker’s nickname for the Hoosiers offensive line.

  45. Carlton, by your logic, every coach that produced a 1-11 (or worse) record in their first season with a new team was a bad hire! That means Mallory must have been a bad hire for IU. That means John Pont must have been a bad hire? That means Lee Corso must have been a bad hire. That means a lot of coaches, all across the country, that have established very successful programs, must have been bad hires. How about Iowa’s coach, was he a good hire?

    Last season, as far as IU’s record was concerned, was a throw-away season. Not the least bit unusual and indicative of absolutely nothing, other than a new coaching staff began the process of transforming a losing culture into a winning culture. Have you been paying attention? Do you understand why Wilson got a seven-year contract? It’s not because IU football was in great shape when he arrived on campus. It’s not because Glass was satisfied with producing 5-win seasons year after year. To achieve great success, you have to take risks. Sorry, very few guarantees in this life. And if you can’t see the obvious improvement, from last year to this year, then you really don’t know football. Even if IU fails to win another game this year, I have already seen improvement. If you can’t see the obvious improvement in IU’s football recruiting, you don’t understand football talent.

    Wilson may not turn out to be a successful coach at IU, but keeping Lynch was clearly not an option. Why you, and a few others, continue to harp on that point, instead of supporting the new coaching staff, is a mystery. But it’s entertaining, just like 4guards’ irrational comments about Crean were a while back.

    But to answer your question directly, what Wilson has and what Lynch never had, was coaching pedigree. The best indication of a person’s future performance is his past performance. Wilson has the coaching pedigree to lead a Big Ten team. Lynch, while a very nice and honorable man, simply did not. Wilson was an assistant head coach and Offensive coordinator at one of the country’s most successful football programs. He recruited and coached a Heisman Trophy winner and the top player picked int he NFL draft. He recruited and coached numerous first round NFL draft picks. And he was an integral part of a coaching staff that won a national championship. Lynch’s record as a coach, and the quality of the programs he was associated with, pryer to arriving at IU, does not compare.

    But again, I appreciate your loyalty to Lynch. He is a very nice man.

  46. Even if IU fails to win another game this year, I have already seen improvement. If you can’t see the obvious improvement in IU’s football recruiting, you don’t understand football talent.

    There’s always a qualifier when it comes to prognostication and IU football. I think the football team will go to a bowl game THIS YEAR.

    There were a lot of assistants that worked under Bobby Knight at one of the ‘county’s most successful’ basketball programs. I’m not sure they’ve all become successful head coaches at D-1 schools because they came from such ‘pedigree.’ ….Sometimes you get your Mike Davis and sometimes you get your Coach K.

  47. Poopdunker, Wilson has no coaching pedigree. He was never a Head Coach (except at high school level, overall record 0-10). End of story. Also by your backwards logic starting your coaching career 1-11 means you’re going to be a second Mallory if not better. !? But then again, what can we expect from you?

  48. I like Coach Wilson and certainly think he will get his arms wrapped around the monumental task that is Hoosier football. I already see some signs of improvement, a new attitude in the program.

    But, I understand Carlton’s point to be his questioning of the progress made, his position that he does not see Coach Wilson as an improvement over Coach Lynch and his belief that Hoosier football is not going anywhere. I don’t agree… I simply don’t agree

    …but, it is Carlton’s right to voice that opinion, tho have his views taken seriously and his doubts as valid on their own. Why shouldn’t he voice his opinions? Why should his arguments be ridiculed and on what evidence? And, I repeat, I disagree with his opinion and feel Hoosier football is moving forward under KW’s firm hand…but why are the criticisms and, yes, attacks so virulent and, in some cases. demeaning in intent?

    I never read ‘4guard’ (that I remember), but why focus so much anger on individuals who are doing nothing but giving their opinions in a site reserved for that purpose.

    This is not directed at any one in particular (but if you feel that the shoe fits, ware it!)

  49. HforH, I hope you’re right.

    Tsao, “virulent attacks and, in some cases, demeaning in intent?” Surely you jest or are exaggerating, just a bit. Or maybe I just missed those posts. A little sarcastic barb is a far cry from a virulent or demeaning attack. And please note who’s reverting to the juvenile name-calling in their posts.

    Carlton, to become a head football coach usually means you have to have experience as an assistant coach. People have to start somewhere. And perhaps it would be good if you looked up the word pedigree in the dictionary. In this context, it refers to where a person comes from, not what position or title he held before he arrived at where he is. Wilson’s pedigree, or his training and development for becoming a head coach, results from his nine years of experience as an assistant head coach at Oklahoma (National Championship, perennial top 10 program, numerous first round draft picks, Heisman Trophy winner, etc), his time helping transform Northwestern football into a winning program, and before that at the “cradle of coaches,” Miami of Ohio. Not to be unkind, but seriously, Lynch’s pedigree, regardless of the positions he held, came from Butler, Ball State, etc. And if memory serves me, he had losing records everywhere he was a head coach. To most objective observers, that simply did not qualify him to be a head coach of a Big Ten football team in need of a major cultural transformation. But really, the only person whose opinion on this subject really mattered was Glass. My opinion is that Glass made the right call. But only time will tell whether Glass was right or not, and given that his job is likely riding on that outcome of that decision, I’m sure Glass gave it very careful consideration.

  50. It’s actually pretty funny to compare BL resume’ with that of CKW.

    BL is a nice man and probably a capable second tier assistant coach.

    CKW has been in the majors for a long time.

  51. Enough of the Lynch bashing crap——he had multi-generational recruiting contacts throughout the GREAT state of Indiana, especially Indianapolis, indeed a pipeline of contacts unmatched by very few in the history if IU football———-(this was just getting up steam when it was killed)———-it does not make any difference who his replacement is, they are all outsiders to the Hoosier State——–why replace Indiana born and bred coaches (for the most part)trying to recruit Indiana born and bred players———-you know what will happen if this new coach or any successive coach has a successful season???——-they will hold the University hostage for ANOTHER million $$$ demanding a new contract——–(see Ron Zook @ Illinois)———-what was wrong with keeping someone who had approximately the same winning percentage of the prior 100 years of IU football trying to improve upon a clean program ???———those coaches and the players fought until their hearts were black and blue under BL & Co.——————-

  52. I ask because I don’t know… Does Indiana have high quality HS football recruits on an annual basis? I just looked at the ESPN top 300 and there are 5 Indiana (state) players listed, 4 of which are going to ranked college programs and the other to Purdue.

    If there are that few top flight recruits in the state then they stand out like a sore thumb and get snatched up by the big time programs. That leaves IU to scrounge around for mid-level in-state recruits. So how do they become competive with those type of players? Why is a Bill Lynch model of going after in-state guys better than the philosophy of a guy that came from from Oklahoma and recruited every 4 & 5 star recruit in the country for the last decade?

  53. Wilson’s resume now includes last season so, no, I am not impressed with it. Wilson’s pedigree may be enough for you, but it wasn’t enough for Gunner Kiel. Wilson’s pedigree doesn’t win, and apparently doesn’t recruit either. What’s left of it? “Win Today!” hype videos before 1-11 seasons?

    You say you smell a win this weekend. Again. Fine with me but, for your own safety, I again suggest that you please do not inhale.

  54. Geoff, CKW is obviously bringing in players with a far greater upside than BL. I always wondered how Coach Lynch thought he was going to win in the Big Ten without Big Ten caliber players. From day one we all knew that CKW was going to go out a hit the JC ranks because we all knew we didn’t have the talent to compete on this roster. It was also obvious that we had better players four years ago and it had been going downhill ever since. Maybe Nick Saban could have won 4 games with this bunch last year, if so he should have won a award for it.

    You know 5 players in the top 300 isn’t a fertile enough recruiting ground to build a major college football team, let alone 3 (PU & ND) but, without running the numbers (that’s YOUR job), it’s probably not all that bad if you look at population density. That would equal something like 30 out of California or 20 out of Texas.

    Maybe it isn’t so much that high school football is lower caliber as it is that the population is just smaller.

  55. I think a win against BSU will go some ways to validate KW as a coach. Man for man, BSU looks like a stronger team than IU at this point. Their offense is particularly strong (probably lower B10 caliber). IU will be hard pressed to stop them! This game may well be a shoot out.

  56. iufan23: Good post and I think you’re right about a shoot out. I don’t think IU’s defense can stop BSU’s running game. With Tre in as QB, I’d be feeling much more confident about IU’s changes on Saturday. But Coffman is the wild card. Should be interesting.

    Carlton & Barbwire; I don’t see anyone bashing Bill Lynch as a man. In fact, most posts include comments about what a fine man he is. And everyone knows that the circumstances of how he became IU’s head coach were tragic. That was not his fault and I believe he did the best he could, given the circumstances. But he was simply not qualified to lead IU football, or any other Big Ten program, to success. I think the problem with a lot of BL’s fans is that they misinterpret the criticism of his performance and/or pedigree as a coach with criticism of him as a person. I don’t recall any poster on this site attacking or denigrating BL as a person/man. But he was certainly eligible for criticism of his performance as a coach. And so is Wilson. You have every right to criticize Wilson’s performance. We all do. And after four years as IU’s head coach, if he has not produced a winning season, his seat is going to start to get very hot. That comes with the territory for all coaches. Most, if not all of BL’s harshest critics acknowledge that Bill Lynch is a very nice and honorable man. We appreciated the effort he made and the integrity he displayed, but we just were not satisfied with the results he produced or the direction we perceived the program to be headed. We also reserve the right to develop those same opinions about Wilson in years to come. But right now, it looks like Wilson’s work is having a positive impact on the direction of IU’s football program. Most of us believe he simply needs time and, like many coaches taking over a new program and trying to change its culture, you can’t draw any conclusions about his long-term viability after the first couple of years.

  57. I remember plenty of past comments from posters on the pages Scoop(and many on IDS from posters that frequented both sites) that were making denigrating and demeaning remarks, vicious remarks, aimed at Bill Lynch while he was still coach at IU.

    Many of those posters are likely on here today under new aliases. So easy to save face now. “Fire Lynch Now” comments were all over this site. So cowardly to go headhunting and then hide behind a different screen name a couple years later.

    Maybe in the long term will be better under coach Wilson, but let’s not pretend that there wasn’t mean sh*t being thrown at Lynch.

    There has also been chatter on this site, often in very exaggerated form, that implied some would exchange championships in basketball for a well-mannered coach that would have saved IU from the scars of embarrassment brought to our name under Bobby Knight. Many of those same posters painting Knight as an embarrassment appear today to be making mockery out of a previous football coach that was such a clueless “nice guy.”

    He was more than a “nice guy.” His Hoosier team took Michigan down to the wire in Ann Arbor. Only a blown call prevented the Hoosiers from likely grinding out the clock and putting a victory in the books very rare for Indiana against elite Big 10 competition. His final coached game was a win in West Lafayette for the Oaken Bucket. …A near victory in Michigan and a win in West Lafayette.

    I like coach Wilson because he’s a not-so-clueless, not-so-nice guy. I think Wilson understood his “pedigree” would account for plenty in his wallet, and plenty in length of contract, and plenty in tolerance his methods, when taking a job amidst so many “clueless” and desperate football fans of Indiana. The bar is very, very, low at Indiana. This man will never face the scrutiny someone like Mike Davis that had to take over a program whose success was so attached to one man. Please quit treating him like a god. There is very little room for ‘reverse’ when you are speaking about Indiana Football.

    When a Lynch-coached team lost a tight game at Michigan, the hate crowd was spewing “Fire Coach Lynch” within hours of the loss. Now champagne awaits in the Hoosier locker room for a win against Ball State on our home field.

    And where was the talent per capita/density argument during the big consolidation debate? I believe Harvard made the same point that even with mid-sized cities and towns plenty big for organized football, Indiana simply struggles with overall population numbers(the lacking of a major city like Cleveland, Detroit, Chicago, Baltimore, Dallas, LA, etc). Where was Geoff interjecting his brilliance a week ago? And where was Chet defending the same argument made by Harvard?

    Many forget what was said a week ago on Scoop. Big surprise they can’t remember the vile attacks aimed at Lynch from their own mouths a couple years ago.

  58. Harvard for Hillbillies
    Saturday, September 8, 2012 – 11:12 AM UTC

    I would surmise that ND’s football reputation(though not the strongest in recent years)still affords them the cream of the crop.

    And if Indiana would have put one-tenth the focus into football during the decades it was satisfied with a nationally elite basketball program, Memorial would be more than a graveyard.

    And how many quality football players have left the state through the decades because, other than a private school that could pick and choose the best of the best from the Midwest, or the prospect of stomaching the stench in Lafayette, there was no school with the state name incorporated into the title its institution that invested their passion and dollars into football?

    Please attempt to tell me the majority of the fan base at IU was losing sleep over not making a Holiday Bowl when Assembly Hall was the most rocking sports site in the entire Midwest and putting out teams that were talented enough to legitimately contending for banners every other season?

    And in my humble opinion, why would a top football prospect put his sights on attending IU when Bobby Knight and basketball was simply the only tale in town and capturing headline after headline(nationally and locally)? I would conclude a lot of those very good football players did go to Purdue, Michigan, Wisconsin, Illinois, and maybe a handful to ND.

    Lastly, even with pockets of sizable population and hundreds of middle schools and high schools that have supported football and played the game skillfully and with great passion for eons of Friday nights under the lights, Indiana is still a state that lacks a huge metropolitan base. We don’t have a Detroit, Cleveland, Chicago that provides at least one giant pool of potential recruits to add to the many mid-sized pockets(Gary, Hammond, East Chicago, South Bend, Fort Wayne, Evansville, Lafayette, etc).

    Indy’s population is blossoming and I’m sure, in time(a couple decades), IU will still not be able to reap the rewards of such growth in numbers.

    Wilson’s task is monumental. He will have to recruit beyond the borders because there are already two football programs in the state, and many powerhouse programs within a three hour car trip Indiana’s central point, that are monumentally more attractive programs to a top football prospect. I would estimate consolidation as being very low on the list as the fundamental cause our forty year lag.

    Overall population numbers, existing colleges in the state with grandeur football history, the lack of a robust city to feed off, and our hardwood history in Bloomington, will continue to be the main impediment to progress.

  59. I’m a bit confused by something, all week I’ve heard a lot of talk about how tough Ball State will be,& I just wonder, when did they become such a jugernaut? Did I miss a meeting? I mean, yeah, I SUPPOSE they will be our toughest test to date, but if we consider Ball State to be such a mountain to scale, we’re in FAR worse shape than I thought. Can anyone straighten me out about this?

  60. Oh, & 1 more thing: WHY IN THE HELL ARE WE PLAYING SO MANY NIGHT GAMES??? Is this where the least compelling of big ten gamnes are banished to?

  61. It’s called lowering the bar, Chet. Makes one wonder why Wilson didn’t pursue a job in Muncie. Bingo! NO deep pocket books at BSU! No mega student enrollment numbers to funnel dollars into overblown coaching salaries.

    Or, maybe it’s just because a football jock can get a degree in architecture from BSU. Maybe a lot of decent local football players (300 lb T-Rex lineman that still wouldn’t make the cut for ND, Purdue, OSU, etc) want to be draftsmen and urban planners….?

    Best Theory: Maybe BSU is finally reaping the benefits of a strong football base and cultural tidal wave of positiveness instilled by Bill Lynch…?

  62. “Is this where the least compelling of big ten gamnes are banished to”

    I have to admit…That was very funny.

    I actually blame “The Establishment” for the night games.

  63. 41 players from Indiana on the BSU roster. I also noticed quite a sizable number from Ohio.

    BSU always seems to bring a lot of speed to the field. If the size discrepancy isn’t too great, maybe the speed in key positions(QB, linebackers, receivers, special teams)can make for staying competitive and pulling upsets in the traditionally labeled “underdog” matches…? Thoughts?

  64. Let’s face it. Harvard has a point and it is something that, personally, bothers me a great deal about this site. We are as much a part of the ‘losers’ who have made the Hoosier program a national columnist’s perfect joke on incompetence as the many coaches who have tried and failed to make the Hoosiers a respected program and failed.

    We’d better hope Coach Wilson has put our arrogant and blissful ignorance and comical ‘franchise owners wannabes’ culture smack in the middle of his cross hairs. Until that is addressed, we will stumble around as the Big Ten’s guaranteed win for rival programs.

    The change that brought the selection of Coach Wilson is promising, as long as we understand that the less input we have into it as IU fans, the greater the chances of success.

    Through Lynch’s last year I struggled to decide whether I felt a need to advocate for change or to support him, especially given the circumstances of his appointment.

    I also thought he was a very decent man and sincerely hoped the story in “Hoosier (a coach with a spotty history, not necessarily a popular choice) leading Indiana to successful seasons. (Some people forget that sometimes losing is a great teacher). I certainly did not and do not understand the vindictive and virulence against Lynch. That did and is a concern for me; the personal insults, the demeaning comments, the intent to embarrass Lynch as an incapable clown. He was not that and we have no right

    Still, I like many did finally decide a change was needed… for a very specific reason. Coach Lynch had been criticized, with substantial reason, for the defensive incompetence of his team. They were not only regularly beaten because of their inability to show and establish their will to defend, but they were just as predictably used by teams who aspired to high BCS rankings by ‘padding’ their scores at our expense. The Hoosier teams we fielded simply stood by helplessly and allowed other teams to ‘paint their face’.

    More important, at that point it seemed that a change for the better was not going to happen from the coaching staff, especially on defense. Confusion seemed to reign as to the teaching of specific defensive skills, players seemed and proved confused as to technique, coaches appeared to talk past each other. It became clear Coach Lynch needed to take a stand, confront his own defensive staff and make the changes necessary.

    Lynch had a duty to show respect for the fans clamoring for signs of self-criticism and to show a visible effort to take action as the program’s leader to address the internal problems. Yet, not one defensive coach was changed, no adjustments were made and the comments coming out of the defensive assistants suggested a lack of a cohesive internal vision. Not reassuring when coaches on the same staff could not even agree on simple techniques in their public comments. While thinking about my own reaction to it, I did consider Lynch’s attitude and respect for in-state football talent and coaches, a plus;…he certainly was very, very respected by many coaches we had every reason to respect ourselves.

    But, I kept going back to the message that his unwillingness to take the actions absolutely mandated by the circumstances and results and the pandemonium that seemed to exist within his defensive staff. And, finally, reluctantly I came to the conclusion that Lynch’s inaction- knowing that inaction would lead to more losing and, thus result in the loss of jobs for his entire staff, including an acceptable offense, was no longer a position I could support. I believe Glass made the same choice, probably thinking about similar issues.

    So the change was made. Glass made the right choice seeking an expert ‘talent identifier’ to complement his own instincts. He hired Kevin Wilson and for all the right reasons. These included the fact that a long-time assistant would address issues that are more likely to come up in a program that has not had success. He would also be more hands-on.

    I liked having the view from the trenches a former long-time assistant provides. Their view is much more likely to be tuned to whatr the players are seeing, feeling and saying. As a fan, I want to be loyal to our coach. And, I expect the coach to be loyal to the program and to show his loyalty to his assistants by making the decisions to provide them with job security and future opportunities. bAll this added up to Kevin Wilson.

    I also expect the coach to be loyal to the ends of the program at Indiana University by doing everything necessary to make it successful. Kevin Wilson’s history suggested that as well. The day will come when Kevin Wilson’s own personal journey will help him make the choice to stay in Bloomington rather than pursue choices out of ego.

    And, then there is the changes necessary for us the fans.

    I do agree with those who argue we owe Bill Lynch respect, and gratitude for being willing to lead us in some very trying circumstances. Demeaning, insulting or disrespecting his career speaks very poorly of us Hoosier fans who, if anything, need to acknowledge our own role in the history of failure that covers the majority of IU football history. At some point, we have to acknowledge our own ignorant and bumbling nature as a major contribution of our culture of football failure.

    Hopefully, this is the heart of the Hoosier football culture problem Kevin Wilson sees and is addressing now. We have to come to grips with it and support him, putting our so obvious and open individual defensive mechanisms to the side.

  65. Chris, “theoretically” a B10 team should always prevail against a MAC team especially at home. But, we all know that isn’t always the case. The reality here is that Ball State’s program is significantly further along than Indiana. They had a top 20 team when coach by Brady Hoke, a year in which they beat us soundly. Admittedly, they aren’t as strog this year, but they are decidedly bigger, stronger and more talented than we are at this point. In particular, their running game bolstered by an offensive line that we only wish we had, is likely to prevail over our defense.

  66. I understand your points IUfan, but I just don’t see Ball State being “daunting”, at all really. The Brady Hoke era might as well have been 100 years ago, they’ve gone 2-10, 4-8, & 6-6 repectively since his departure. I suppose the fact thaty scored 24 on Clemson coud be seen as formidable, but they allowed 52, & more than that, their 1st gamre resulted in a 37-26 win at home against Texas State resoundly–31-14. In summation, I would, by default call BSU our toughtest team of the 3(which is saying almost nothing), but not by a very wide margin, IMHO. Every game is a challenge for us, but IMHO Ball State would be at the bottom of the big ten if they were in it. By far. I expect a double digit IU win.

  67. Hey Harverd, who is getting treated like a god? Were you referring to Knight or Wilson? Is that what the folks who are saying, “Well, we seem to be headed in the right direction so I’ll reserve judgement and see what happens,” are doing?

    Man, you don’t show your ‘gods’ much respect.

    As far as ‘defending an argument’, I didn’t really get much involved in that discussion one way or another except to mention my high school had been around for a long time. It seemed kinda pointless.

  68. I was certainly one of Bill Lynch’s most ardent critics, even before he was named to replace Hep. But I do not remember ever writing comments that qualified as “personal attacks” against Lynch. His interpersonal skills were never the issue. His decency was never an issue. His integrity was never an issue. There was no basis for any personal attack against Lynch. But there was a lot of justification for criticizing his performance as a head football coach. Being a head football coach of a BCS Division program is a results oriented, what-have-you-done-for-me-lately occupation, and harsh criticism of failure comes with the territory. That’s one reason most coaches make a seven-digit annual income!

    I was clearly frustrated, especially after the infamous Wisconsin game (i.e., beat down) and Lynch’s second to last Purdue game (both embarrassing blow outs) with the performance of Lynch’s teams. To me, his teams appeared to quit on the field a few times and simply did not look like they belonged in the Big Ten conference.

    Let’s be careful not to confuse passionate criticism of the man’s professional performance with personal attacks. The former is fair game while the latter is always out-of-bounds. And just because Bill Lynch was a good, decent, honorable man of integrity does not mean he should have been allowed to keep his job as IU’s head football coach. There are a lot of good and decent people out there that are not qualified to do certain jobs, especially when a University’s Athletic Department budget is at stake. Justified or not, a lot of people in America are passionate about their college football teams. When those teams lose, they get upset and direct their frustration at the coaching staff. That has not changed in my life time. But instead of screaming insults at the coach from the stands, now we write posts on a sports blog. The behavior is common and nothing I have seen posted on this site rises to the level unique. If anything, and in relative terms, Hoosier fans are relatively mild in criticizing their coaches. If you don’t believe me, check out the blogs that are dedicated to SEC football teams. Once you do, you’ll appreciate The Hoosier Scoop all the more.

  69. Chris, I hope you’re right! But, I’m real nervous. While I agree that BSU would be at the bottom of the B10, look where we are. I just don’t have a feel for whether or not this team will prevail over adversity or cave. ISU and Mass were not strong enough to qualify as a test of our team’s character much less talent. We’ll see I guess!

  70. Po, just to be clear, I was not specifically referring to your comments about BL. I agree with you the decision to replace him was proper and support it fully. (I believe I made that very clear in my statement and say why).

    But, over time, I have read several posts directed at Lynch and his talents on the blog that I consider abusive. They should not be a part of being a Hoosier fan.

  71. Again, of BSU provides that test of our talent, then lord help us. I have designs of sneaking into bowl eligibility this year(well, I DID before mid 2nd quarter of our last game), & for that to happen, we’re going to handle much better than Ball State.

  72. Although, I will agree with you that every game is a challenge for us. Defeat is never out of the question. Defense will be the key this week for us. If they have a bad game, we will probably lose, if they play well, no way we lose.

  73. Chet, I can love both. And while there is definitely no comparison between the love I have for my family, I definitely love Indiana University. Always have and always will. And I don’t think I am unique in that regard.

    Tsoa, I did not interpret your comments in post #86 to be directed at me. I was simply trying to make the distinction between personal attacks and professional criticism. I think professional criticism, even the most passionate criticism, is absolutely O.K., even necessary. It’s basically a very focused form of “consumerism,” in that if we don’t like a product or service, or feel we’re not getting the value we deserve, we have the right to complain to the entity that’s putting it out there. And I see such expressions as an act of loyalty and commitment. As my old High School football coach used to say, “Don’t worry when I yell at you for making mistakes, worry when I stop yelling at you for making mistakes. Because when I stop yelling, it means I’ve given up on you.” I believe the problem for IU football is that too many Hoosier fans have stopped “yelling” about IU football and have long since lost hope, have accepted that the problem (losing) is permanent, or are no longer willing to contribute to the solution. I will never stop “yelling” for IU football. I just wish that the Hoosier Nation would invest 50% of the passion it has for IU basketball into IU football. If we did that, I think IU football would just fine.

    But communicating our support or criticism of an IU coach goes beyond writing posts in a blog. Long before I ever subscribed to The Hoosier Scoop, I was writing letters to IU’s administrators conveying my criticism of their management (or lack there of) of IU’s Athletic Department. And let’s face it, before Glass arrived on scene, there was a lot to find criticism with. When IU fundraisers would call me to solicit donations for various Athletic funds, there were brief periods where I would refuse to make a donation and made sure to tell the solicitor why I was not going to send the check. I was polite but pointed in my comments, counting on them to note the reason for my refusal to donate money at the time. When thousands of Hoosier alumni withhold donations, big or small, and tell the University why, I guarantee it gets the attention of IU’s top administrators and Board of Trustees. And obviously, people not showing up for IU’s games makes a similar statement. Money talks and BS walks.

    One of the things I respect so much about many of the frequent posters on The Hoosier Scoop is that most try to maintain a sense of propriety in their comments. And those that don’t or can’t, tend to take a pounding. I hope the majority of posters will maintain that high sense of propriety and try to remember the difference between personal attacks and appropriate, passionate, and professional criticism.

  74. I believe the problem for IU football is that too many Hoosier fans have stopped “yelling” about IU football

    Podunker-

    Gotta hand it to ya, you’re good. Don’t blame the fans. IU fans have been cheering for ‘Jabba the Hut-Hut’ to get off the Memorial couch for decades. They’ve watched years of thick makeup put onto the sedentary blob to dress her up pretty.

    But there becomes a point that the “yelling” at her had to stop. You had to just embrace her for being your fat ol’ loyal love. She became so used to being on her bottom that the bottom became her best asset. There became a point that we had to stop expecting more of her because it was obvious she just didn’t love herself enough to change. ‘Jabba the Hut-Hut’ needs far more than one season of liposuction from an Oklahoma cosmetic surgeon to repair the damage to her tired arteries, the years of Ding Dongs fed into her once healthy muscle, and the complacent hopelessness she infected upon her family, her Hoosier fans, in the decades of low self-esteem imparted upon her admirers.

    We’ve heard it all before…”Yell at her some more!…Yell at her louder!…Pull on her arms!..Lift her up! Try to lift her!..Force her to get some help!..Get her off that damn couch they call Memorial!” And then we hire a Bill Lynch and he touches our heart…He doesn’t yell foul things at her. He doesn’t degrade her for her past mistakes. He accepts her. He understands that she was the adopted ugly duckling when all the family was infatuated with the glory of banners her beautiful hoops sister born of Indiana hoops blood. Bill attempts to put is arms around her. No arms are long enough..She’s just too big. He kisses her on the cheek, hands her another Ding Dong, and loves her for simply being beautiful.

    Have you ever seen the film “What’s Eating Gilbert Grape” starring Johnny Depp?

    Hoosier Football fans are the best fans in the world. Don’t ever forget it. They have never refused loving in the face of seemingly endless humiliation and mockery. There are none more loyal in heart.

  75. HforH; While I agree that “Hoosier football fans are the best in the world,” there are not enough Hoosier fans that are “Hoosier football fans.” That’s a key distinction.

    And I was not referring to anyone “yelling” at the fans. I was referring, metaphorically, to yelling at the administration, the coaches, and those responsible for fielding improved football teams.

    But you make a very good point. Who was responsible for IU football becoming “Jabba the Hut?” It was not the coaches, it was not the players, it wasn’t the IU fans. No, in my opinion, having followed it for decades, the blame rests with a a series of administrators and trustees who considered IU football an afterthought! But that being a given, who has the power to fix the problem and transform “Jabba the Hut” into an alluring damsel? That would be us, the Hoosier Nation.

    During my most intense periods of discontent with IU football, or IU basketball, my most passionate criticism was not directed at the players or IU’s head coaches, it was directed at IU’s administrators. Edward Deming used to say, “there are no bad workers, just bad managers.” His point was, everyone wants to be successful, everyone wants to “win.” But people can’t win if their leaders don’t give them the tools and support necessary to succeed. Management must make sure their employees (workers) have the tools necessary to be successful. Until recently, IU’s administrators simply did not make the investment necessary to give IU football the chance to be successful. Going forward, like Glass has done, those administrators must make sure that IU’s coaches have what they need to be competitive (compensation, facilities, recruiting budgets, etc). My belief is that men like coach Mallory were never given the support they needed to fully transform IU football into a consistent winning program. For a long, long time, IU administrators were negligent regarding IU’s football program, happy to remain satiated by the success of IU basketball and sports like IU soccer. You could almost hear them say, “see, IU produces championship teams in other sports from time to time.” Well, yes, IU soccer is the most successful college soccer program in history, and they were truly outstanding, but men’s soccer is never going to fund a bunch of other mens and women’s varsity sports, if it even pays for itself.

    Given the economics involved in modern college sports, and as Glass has articulated so often, a University can no longer maintain competitive teams in other varsity sports unless football is generating healthy profits. For most schools, football funds all the title nine sports for women and the many other money-losing men’s varsity sports like wrestling and swimming, which most people, myself included, believe are important sports to maintain.

    We IU football fans don’t deserve the blame for the football programs lack of success, but we have the opportunity, perhaps even the responsibility, to be part of the solution. And that’s by continuing to demand that IU administrators and the trustees make it a priority while supporting the football program and encouraging other IU fans to do the same.

  76. I think their could be a ton of arguments made that IU would have fallen off the world map without their storied hoops program. Countless forms of economic stimulus to a region(TV contracts, student enrollment, notoriety serving as an consistent influx of large corporate and alumni donations)will never translate from seats in stands in balance sheets of Athletic Departments.

    It’s somewhat of a deception to believe IU made grotesque mistakes in its athletic departments while fully understanding where its bread was truly being buttered.

    With respect to the long term economic vitality of Bloomington(and even much of the southern half of Indiana), I still believe it’s far more important IU reclaims the prowess its storied basketball program. The patient(IU hoops) was teetering on lifelessness. Nothing is more vital than to keep basketball on the road to recovery.

    God help us all if the heavy investment in dollars and distractions for the many experiments in football ever enable Duke, NC, OSU, MSU, etc. to bleed us of the best our state’s top b-ball talent and returning us to forever labels an IU as a hoops dynasty only relevant in the rear view mirror of one era under one coach.

    I’m troubled when we hear of de-commits some top in-state(and out-of-state) talent needed to keep our basketball program steadily moving back to a powerhouse elite program to be reckoned with while we inflate the pigskin with big blow in our celebrations Wilson locating a beefy 320 lb JC football player from Montana.

    Sometimes I wonder if ‘The Establishment’ would love nothing more than watching IU shoot itself in the foot over football in a state that bleeds from its core such great talent and traditions in basketball. Be careful what you wish for.

  77. Good for you Podunker, great statement! I agree with it entirely, including that as loyal alumni we do have a responsibility to hold the administration accountable. And, if that means withholding contributions but specifying the reason, doing so.

    I also agree that I think the appointment of A.D. Glass was a turning of the corner for the Hoosiers, particularly those sports that tended to get lost in the wake of basketball success. I am optimistic with the direction and goals of Hoosier athletics.

    By the way, there are no co-incidences. Selecting the right people at the top is pivotal. During the 1960’s IU was fortunate to habe William (‘Bill’) Orwig who was selected at a key moment very similar to what we were facing 2-3 years ago. IU was coming out of a ‘major’ NCAA probation, basketball leadership was losing ground and the ‘minor’ (I believe there is no such thing, but that is what they were called then) sports were not very relevant.

    Orwig came in and shortly thereafter hired John Pont as football coach, a couple of years later took a lot of heat hiring a young Bob Knight away from Army, fully supported and funded the golden years of IU swimming and diving and their legendary coaches (to this day the best coaching staff- James ‘Doc’ Councilman and Hobie Billingsley- in the history of intercollegiate athletics, recognized the ascension of soccer and promoted it from club level to varsity sport, while recognizing the talent of the ‘club’s’ coach, our now retired ‘great’ Jerry Yeagley and keeping him as coach while expanding his budget; and began an expensive but necessary and successful upgrade of facilities (Memorial stadium replaced the old 10th Street stadium, the Fieldhouse became the temporary basketball home while Assembly Hall was built, the track and field stadium was built as was Sembower Field…

    I cite the above because Orwig’s vision was absolutely fundamental to IU’s ‘glory days” including the Rose Bowl and B1G Championship (IU reached #5 ranking nationally) in football, three NCAA basketball championships, absolute national dominance in swimming and diving (besides becoming a major provider of Olympic champions) and the Hoosiers lofty place as the top soccer program in the US.

    Orwig and his vision was vital to that period. Sadly, with the exception of the Mallory decadence hit the programs after Orwig’s departure and his replacement by ‘social insiders’ followed by bean counters who added absolutely nothing.

    Glass, however, seems to have the same vision of greatness and combines it to his nurturing of a marketing plan that hopefully will create the structure based on sound leadership, standards and compliance through the support of strong, intelligent coaches across the board of all IU athletics.

    There is much that seems to be similar between Orwig’s and Glass’ leadership and vision, making for much reason for optimism for passionate IU fans. And, truthfully…our loyalty is so deserving!

  78. oops!!…should read with the exception of the Mallory YEARS, decadence hit the programs….Sorry (Mallory’s dismissal was further evidence of the decadence that turned glory into depression), if there is a model of how to build a winning football program from the inside, Mallory’s was it. His dismissal was suicidal and absolutely needless.

  79. Easy to now justify tinkering again with the experiment when the basketball program stands poised for anticipated success in their preseason #1 ranking.

    I repeat, be careful what you wish for..Success on the hardwood could be very short-lived if we lose the true focus needed to sustain relevancy in the game that gives us the best shot, a defining Final Four jump shot(Keith Smart..? Anyone?), at long term national recognition.

    Bloomington would be a ghost town without those banners hanging from Assembly. One Rose Bowl in four decades doesn’t make for what the candy stripes caused in the acidic spite of a Seth Davis gut. They don’t like us for a reason..and it ain’t football.

  80. “Orwig and his vision was vital to that period. Sadly, with the exception of the Mallory YEARS, decadence hit the programs after Orwig’s departure and his replacement by ‘social insiders’ followed by bean counters who added absolutely nothing.”

    With the help of a little cut and paste, that statement is an excellent summary.

    I also think that IU had too many AD’s that saw the job as a layover on their way to bigger jobs. And it used to drive me crazy when they would bring in some guy with absolutely no ties to IU or anyone inside IU’s administration. Not to suggest you can’t succeed at IU as an outsider, but really cherishing the job, the campus, the town and the challenge makes it more likely an AD will be successful. I like that Glass is an alumni and has lived in Indiana most, if not all of his life. As they say, he is “vested” in IU.

    HforH; please tell me you’re not suggesting that by investing in football, IU is at risk of declining in basketball. I assure you, IU can establish a competitive football program and remain a National Powerhouse in basketball. Having top programs in both sports is not mutually exclusive, it’s complimentary, as has been proven by Mich State, Michigan, Wisconsin, Ohio State, Florida, Missouri, Kansas, Texas, and Oklahoma. You could include UNC in that list, but their football program was corrupt a few years back, so that’s not really appropriate. Florida was the classic example, having won National Championships in both sports in the same “year “not too long ago.

    While IU has benefitted from some very generous benefactors in recent years, (Cook), we don’t have too many guys like Phil Knight (Nike) or T Boone Pickens that can donate $285 million in one check for their alma mater’s Athletic department. To compete, we’re going to have to convince a lot more alumni to make a lot of smaller donations and count on the beauty of IU’s campus and a competitive program to attract more fans to football games.

  81. You know, that whole “Bloomington would be a ghost town…” stuff is such BS. Wisconsin didn’t always have a great football program and basketball has always been hit and miss but UW is still one of the finest universities in the world and kids compete to get in there.

    It’s exactly the same at IU.

    The banners are great. They really are. But IU is, and always has been, an elite research university that people from all over the world strive to attend.

    My daughter is graduating from Cornell in May and she’d love to attend IU for grad school but she’s not sure she could get in because it is so competitive.

    Being homegrown, you have come to take our little gem for granted. When I attended graduate school at a campus of UNC, my professors used almost reverent tones when it was mentioned I went to IU. It was held in far higher esteem than my fellow students who attended ACC, Southern Conference, SEC, or various and sundry other schools. My Big Ten university degree impressed people down here.

    Basketball is great but there are plenty of people in the world that know all about IU that could give a rat’s ass about what happens on the hardwood. There are more people like that than you seem to realize.

    Most people couldn’t begin to guess who Seth Davis is.

  82. Well, we are on a sports site here dedicated to Hoosier sports topics..And Dustin could be out of work and Scoop could also be on a pathway to becoming a ghost town without the resurgence of IU basketball. I wouldn’t know Chet from a pet rock without the same passion for IU sports that brought us here. If the love ain’t important, than we should all shut the hell up.

    Let me know next time we plan on talking about the IU Biology program’s top India recruits currently on a Rivals Geneticist list. I’m all ears…

  83. Harvard, you truly are an emotional roller coaster.

    I just pointed out that our beloved IU is a world renowned university. Surely you cannot be offended by the fact that I pointed out what a great institute of higher learning that IU is considered.

    While we have never crossed paths I am truly concerned about you. You have a grand soul but a troubled and fervent heart.

    I did not intend to offend you with any of my comments.

  84. No worries, Chet. Enjoy your vacation. Happiness lands where happiness is deserved…Benefits of a “seasoned” life, I suppose..Reap what you sow and all that jargon..Isn’t that what they say? You’re reaping and Harvard damned be weeping though tears rarely produced these days. I’m tired of apologizing. I am what I am….and that ain’t much.

  85. Hoosier football fans are the best in the world??? Hmmm…

    Chet – quickly back to my earlier point. I am sure that population density has something to do with it, but that doesn’t help the pro-Lynch recruiting side. If there aren’t enough good football players in the state then there aren’t enough good football players in the state, regardless of the reasons. So having great in-state relationships isn’t going to turn a program into a contender. (I know you aren’t arguing that side, just adding perspective).

    It’s different in bball… Obviously the same population, but indiana produces an inordinate number of top notch basketball recruits. Bottom line is IU fans can’t expect those two teams to garner success from similar recruiting strategies. Don’t know why some haven’t figured that out.

  86. Harvard…within a 250 mile radius of Bloomington you have most of the important centers of basketball in he world. It’s not coincidental. The geography and demographics lend themselves to this phenomena. Small farm towns and large urban areas could reach each other within a 5-hour drive; urban ghetto, suburb and industrial towns mixed and competed. Best man won, and loser? he was pretty damned good too! America was reflected in the old format of the IHSAA tournament.

    There was only one original and if you wanted it, well you had to go get it at the source.

    Eastern urban areas tried, (even calling it ‘the city game’), but came up short. They could never produce the cultural phenomenon that mixed farm, towns and cities and filled a huge hangar like Butler Fieldhouse. It was unique. More than anything, it was totally ours. Like the corn, it only grew well in the Midwest (including other similar ‘hick’-as in Hickory- states).

    Try that mix in NYC, or Brooklyn or even Long Island. I’m not sure they could ever come up with an inclusive, all class celebration (in several ways) tournament, the parades of cars following the school bus to Indy. And, oh did the eastern establishment resent it! Still do….even transplanted wannabe Hoosiers in sub-suburbs of the East Coast pine secretly and try to imagine themselves there, smelling that smell of a real gym or hearing the buzzer with the ball in the air at Butler’s Crows Nest.

    But you can’t…; its the original, the one, the unique, the first-born,… the only,… And the identity?…as you see with the wannabes. When you leave, it comes off like the skin from a summer tan. It is non-transferable, it just does not travel well.

    It’s the Truth,…it’s Indiana!

  87. And, oh did the eastern establishment resent it! Still do….even transplanted wannabe Hoosiers in sub-suburbs of the East Coast pine secretly and try to imagine themselves there, smelling that smell of a real gym or hearing the buzzer with the ball in the air at Butler’s Crows Nest.

    Gotta hand it to you, Tsao. You can really put the thoughts to words. Wish I could have said it as eloquently.

    I guess it’s like sometimes seeing people with so much appear so unfulfilled. They truly envy the loss of the simple things, the most important things, that can bring inner depth, passion, and happiness without the need of presumption and institutionalized rule.

    I do believe it’s different in Indiana. Indiana has forever kept its love for the game of basketball bigger than the individual. We still believe in the truth of a game played for reasons embodied in a hopeful innocence its powerful cause of five becoming more important than one..We believe all can contribute(even the slow, sharpshooter never to see the highest level reserved for the most overall gifted) and the meshing of individual gifts can sometimes form the chemistry that creates far more than the sum its parts.

    The cynics and wannabees defending their immediate gratification, greed for the means a trophy rather than the steady journey, sold it out as quickly a Wall Street investment tycoon could steal a senior citizen’s lifetime pension plan for his one-and-done golden parachute.

    When you sell it away..you forever look in the mirror knowing it’s damaged goods. Why wouldn’t they despise for cherishing and respecting a game they treated like a cheap whore? I’ve never defined Indiana as any less elite simply because the game has become a meat market and banners have become far more elusive. In times of deep pockets and mega future salaries enticing misguided prima donnas into the palms of criminals with no soul invested in the game, the candy stripes provide a last glimmer of light and hope where simple happiness can be found.

  88. oops.

    “Why wouldn’t they despise [us] for cherishing and respecting a game they treated like a cheap whore?”

  89. Ok so theres an eastern establishment and the only relevant coaches came from IU and the only real basketball gyms are within a 250 radius of Bloomington.

    You guys clearly are on the right track.

    Tsao – I think you’d change your mind if you played a college game in Bates College’s Alumni Gymnasium. They’ve been playing there since the 1920’s (before Hinkle was constructed) and it’s always packed, loud, and the students are very clever. Because its old and not that big the fans are literally right on top of you. It’s a great atmosphere that I’m sure rivals any smaller gym in Indiana.

    Btw – I don’t “secretly” wish I could experience those Indiana gyms more often, it’s a very open envy I deal with.

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