Another look at the Ohio State loss

I’m not sure there are many places more beautiful than Bloomington in the fall. I’ve only been here for a few months, and I’m still trying to make this place feel like home, but there is something about the way the season splashes its colors around this rustic college town that can sometimes make you feel like anything is possible.

On this most recent October Saturday night, with the country’s No. 8 team visiting, the play on the field at Memorial Stadium was anything but beautiful. But for at least a few moments in a game against Ohio State, the Indiana football team again gave enough reasons to believe that maybe the Hoosiers aren’t too far away from competing consistently in the Big Ten, that anything is possible.

It will be Nate Sudfeld who’s credited for giving Indiana a spark after leading back-to-back scoring drives in the final few minutes of the Hoosiers’ 52-49 loss to the Buckeyes. Rightfully so. Sudfeld completed 6 of 10 passes for 77 yards and again showed a propensity for giving Indiana big plays when it needs them most.

But there were others, too, who made this game — the final score, especially — seem much closer than it truly was. One, of course, was Nick Stoner. His save of an onside kick — after Sudfeld connected with Duwyce Wilson for a 12-yard touchdown pass with 1:40 remaining on the clock — cannot be overlooked. It was almost to be expected from one of the team’s best athletes as he jumped through the sideline to bat that ball back into play as his foot began to meet the chalk. It set up Sudfeld and the Hoosier offense at the Ohio State 48, where they drove to the end zone on five plays — culminating with a 25-yard shovel pass from Sudfeld to Stephen Houston with 1:05 remaining in the game. Cody Latimer’s end-around, two-point conversion made it the three-point game that it stood to be.

Don’t miss Greg Heban, either. He led Indiana with nine tackles, but it was his diving interception of Braxton Miller in the end zone early in the third quarter that kept this game from getting truly out of reach. It was a poor decision to throw by Miller, who absorbed a hit as he began his release. But Heban made the catch and stopped a Buckeye drive that took them 41 yards to the Indiana 4-yard line. Ohio State led 31-17 at the time and a touchdown there likely would have made it a 21-point lead. It could have been enough to break the Indiana spirit.

It should also be noted that Heban broke up a pass in the end zone on an OSU third-and-six from the Indiana 18 late in the first half. It probably prevented a touchdown, and Buckeye kicker Drew Basil followed with a missed, 35-yard kick with Indiana leading 14-10 at the time.

Others, too, had memorable marks on this one. It was the first career three-touchdown game for Houston, and Shane Wynn followed Heban’s interception with a 76-yard touchdown reception from Cameron Coffman that stands as Indiana’s longest score of the season. Also, as columnist Andy Graham wrote, Indiana’s 49 points are the most it has ever scored against a top 10 team. It was also the most it has scored against Ohio State.

But Kevin Wilson doesn’t seem like a man who loses himself in numbers. He’s a man that will point to the unseen things in a football game — things that the casual observer may not notice.

For a few brief moments on Saturday night, as Sudfeld and the Indiana offense made something remarkable happen, Wilson ran onto the field and threw his fist into the air. It was a fleeting moment, one that could be lost to the casual observer as fans filed through the exits and time continued to tick away. But it was also something — if even for a moment — that made it seem like everyone in crimson believed anything was possible.

Again, I send a big congratulations true east to Baltimore, where our friend Chris Korman tied the knot this weekend. Dustin will be back this week.


  1. You just got a lot of fans stating the truth: not many places more beautiful than Bloomington in the fall.

    It’s spectacular.

  2. We put 49 points on Ohio State and scared them badly. You can’t complain about that! This season is reminding me a lot of year 3 of the Crean era: not a big change in the wins column, but you can see more close games and improvement happening.

  3. We gave up 52. We did that because of missed tackle after missed tackle. 3 missed tackles led to OSU’s last TD. Without that score we win. Tackle someone once in awhile and we win a few more games. The D up front is solid enough. Let the opponents past the line, and we’re in trouble. Just wrap them up. Also, sometimes just slow down the offense. When we go 3 and out, the D has got to be tired. Our D has to be wiped out by the end of the game with as much time they spend on the field. I don’t mind the uptempo offense, but sometimes slower is better.

  4. They could have scored 300+ if they had wanted. Urban just tried to help his friend “Hunger Bowl” Kevin.

  5. Three comments:

    #1 It must be a sign of the apocalypse, but for once I agree with Debbie. IU still can’t tackle worth a damn. On numerous plays last night, you could tell several of IU’s defenders really did not want to make contact with the Ohio State player. IU needs more guys that like to hit, and know how to tackle, regardless of the size of the opposing players.

    #2 You can tell by the relatively few comments posted about last night’s game that it is already basketball season for most Hoosier fans. And that’s a shame, because as it’s turning out, the hardest part of IU’s football schedule appears to be behind us, and looking at the remaining schedule, it appears IU has a chance to win a few more football games this year. Not saying we’ll win them all, or any of them for that matter, but Navy, Illinois, Iowa and Purdue are winnable games. Maybe even Penn State, but we have to hope that their thin roster gets further depleted over the next five weeks if we’re to have a chance of winning in Happy Valley.

    #3 Is it time to name Sudfeld the starter? He seems to be very effective in leading IU to touchdowns. Maybe Wilson was just giving the freshman the garbage time and he was playing against OSU’s second or third defense, but he seems to be highly effective in leading the offense.

  6. Definitely time for Sudfeld. Coffman is going to get someone killed. He was not helped by drops (so sad what’s happened to Wilson; halfway thru the season he is still petrified of getting hurt again), but he waits so long to throw the ball and I’ve never seen so many 1-yard checkdowns to a tight end in my life. Arm strength is the issue, since neither quarterback is mobile (Coffman seems like he should be, but is afraid to run). Coffman’s arm reminds me so much of Jay Rodgers, and any IU fan who remembers Jay knows that’s not a good thing.

  7. I like the direction the football team is going. They have bought into what Wilson is selling and are taking on his persona — i.e., they just don’t give up and keep on trying.
    Yes, we have a lot of problems especially on defense, but I see things are turning around.
    As for Sudfield remember that Wilson doesn’t like starting freshmen quarterbacks, and he didn’t start Tre right away last year. I suspect that Sudfield will get his chance to start soon.

  8. I agree that some of the defensive backs (not all, but a couple, seem to have made contact-avoidance)an art. Defensive line play is indeed impressive and played mano-a-mano with OSU. They really did put pressure on the OSU quarterback. Linebacker play is both good at times and, on occasion inconsistent. Heban is a good player who plays with heart and gusto (though he too can make a occasional mistake, mistakes in his case appear to be a matter of commission, not omission or avoidance. Brian Williams has had good moments….and some bad when he seems to get lost. Antonio Marshall seems to play with gusto, his mistakes coming in 1v1 coverage but, overall, a solid upgrade over Kenny Mullens. The comment by Debbi and Podunker about sloppy tackling, particularly in our ‘third’ line defenders (beyond linebackers) is a fair one. Too many missed, one-armed and closed-eyes tackle attempts and diving at the runner from four feet away does not replace squaring up and hitting. It cost us point…several.

    I think there is more than solid evidence that this team is growing solidly week to week, not only as a whole but individually. It seems to me the decisions made by CKW are thoughtful and sound; he (KW) remains the best authority to decide who should play in each position and when to make the proper changes with a view to his game-day and the longer span vision; without regards to our generally uneducated ‘impressions’. I’m totally content with the idea that we have one hell of a staff, a strong, tough, talented and intelligent, clear-headed leader who is giving us a chance to rejoin the B1G with a competitive team in an environment of pride and hard-work. The rest will take care of itself over his tenure. Good job for having the clarity to make the choice, Glass. KW is earning his support and you ours.

    One impression (which is likely to be baseless as it may seem appropriate to the observer); though it wasn’t too hard to figure out that there were others who may have thought that Saturday was not a good moment to promote Hoosier basketball (as much as we love it). I do believe Coach Crean and his introductions should have deferred or been carried out in a ‘more respectful way'(towards the belief in the IU football program) despite the attention to ‘Indiana’s first practice’ and the ESPN carnival. Should we not also celebrate our other nationally re-known programs such as soccer when we have a chance to do so on a national stage?

    It does feel good to sense we are making significant progress and gaining on our goals for the football program.

  9. Tsao – that second to last paragraph doesn’t make sense… It’s English, but who the hell can make out your point. Are you saying basketball shouldn’t have allowed ESPN to promote them because it’s football season? Are you asking why didn’t Crean point out what a great soccer program we have? What does Friday night’s practice have to do with Saturday? Did IU do a basketball promotion at the football game?

  10. I think that Tsao is referring to the fact that Crean and the team were at the game and introduced to the crowd.

    Crean has vocally supported all of IU’s programs especially on twitter including both men’s and women’s soccer. I don’t really see how this can be anything but a positive for the football team. They’re trying to come back just like the basketball team did though their comeback is a much tougher road. So having the basket- ball team show up for their game would seem to be a big show of support.

  11. Geoff, it’s Tsao. It’s not going to make sense. You are not allowed to mention bball until after IU has lost the Bucket game. You should know this by now. No matter that the BTN calls the shots on who they interview. Crean should have punched J Leman in the face and pointed in the direction of whoever the hell the soccer coach is.

  12. Basketball IS Indiana. Crean is Lord of the Ineffable. You can’t mention Indiana without bringing up BB. U should have learned that by now.

  13. CKW recruited players are, at best, sophomores and/or JUCOs. Yet, we have seen a lot of growth. They do seem to ‘play up’ to the opposition. I hope the same sort of effort is put forth against PU.

    Implying Meyer held the score down and put OSU within an onside kick of losing the game is certainly the most asinine thing I’m likely to hear today (and it is an NFL game day).

    Sudfield might be the guy, I don’t know. Certainly, nothing on the field has shown a great deal of separation between the two. So many variables between starting the game and finishing one. It’s hard to say. I think we still have to go by coach’s assessment and the guy does know a little bit about quarterbacks.

    I’m pretty sure CTC had little to nothing to do with the network wanting to interview him within a day of the opening of practice. The BTN wanted him for an interview and Fred Glass OKed it. He did the best he could to minimize basketball operations during football season.

    All in all a pretty amazing effort. Too bad it happened late at night. If it were a 12:00 game it would have been the talk of the town.

    I’m pretty excited to have a stalker. Now I know how Brad Pitt feels.

  14. I agree with some of you that the team has shown growth game after game, I think we should win against Navy this coming week and that should give much needed encouragement to the team. Especially going into a less tougher stretch. In other news, did you guys hear about the Iowa decommitment of 4-star defensive end David Kenney? Him and other good recruits were at the game on Saturday. It would be huge if he landed at IU!

  15. TT is going to bitch 24/7 about Crean no matter WHAT while acting like Bobby was Jesus’ brother.


  16. Coach Wilson…once again I will implore you to start Nate Sudfeld next week @ Navy. Coffman has some talent and is workman-like at QB, however, Sudfeld is a special talent and whenever he steps on the field the team seems to raise the level of their play. NATE SUDFELD should be the STARTER for this up-and-coming IU team…start Sudfeld and IU will actually win a couple more games this year, guaranteed.

  17. Upon rereading that paragraph (I wrote), sounds pretty dumb to me as well. I was actually trying to react to reports that a great part of the Hoosier crowd ‘disappears’ at half time, turning the stands into a pro-Buckeye crowd. Sorry.

    Crean should and does get IU a lot of good exposure. The 2012 almost magically became the retelling of the “Hoosiers” saga at the collegiate level.

    On whether I should accept that IU will forever be a one barn town, don’t think I’d ever accept that. The historical Hoosier experience as a national (and international) power in several sports (basketball, Swimming, Soccer, track and field…)is something I take a lot of pride in. I also think it is a good answer for many anti-Hoosiers who think we are fundamentally unsophisticated hicks obsessed with being a xerox copy of Kentucky.

    Football will soon rise to be a proud part of the whole program and will(continue to) sustain other nationally ranked sports at IU as well.

  18. Who thinks that Tsao? I have lived in a lot of places where I told people I was a Hoosier and been in a lot of conversations as a Hoosier fan and I haven’t heard that from anyone (except UK fans in comments sections, and who cares what they say/think).

    Anyone with any level of education, sophistication, or culture knows that IU is a top notch university and not a breeding ground for the Future Hicks of America. And for those who don’t have a level of sophistication, education, or culture to understand that, why would you care about their opinion on those things?

    I feel like there are a lot of overly-sensitive Hoosiers out there? Or a maybe just a couple really vocal ones.

  19. Rico, I hope you understand that I was kidding about the “W” remark. I am amused that you spend so much time fascinated with me. Obviously, it’s not reciprocated as I have an extremely entertaining life.

    I do enjoy seeing the amount of time you spend dwelling upon me. Please don’t stop. It’s a great source of amusement in my home. Better than a lot of the stuff on cable (actually it’s DirecTV).

  20. Get the kids playground out of the end zone.

    Hard for me to take our football seriously when a Memorial daycare center is functioning at midnight so JPat and his wife can get their groove on in the stands.

    What’s next? One of those germ-infested, enclosed, ball pits to replace the band section at Assembly?

    It’s pretty obvious we don’t take football seriously at Indiana. Could you see a Gymboree set up at the back of the end zone at Notre Dame stadium?

    If you want two major sports at Indiana, then stop portraying what goes on at Memorial as a family Sunday picnic with the possibility a football game breaking out.

    Reminds me how they used to put up swing sets for the kids at the old drive-in movies. Can’t really expect a kid to stay tuned-in to a boring show.

    We had a mean as hell coach nicknamed “The General” where you do “pick and rolls”..and violent things called “jump balls” and “screens”…We have a cute playground on the battle field where bombs, sustained aerial attacks, and ground assaults are supposed to occur..?

    Notice something wrong with this picture?

  21. And it got sorta creepy when Crean(crucifixion necklace dangling about his chest) quickly determined the most promising 12-year-old athlete at the north end zone playground and fired away his best twick-or-tweet line: “I’ve been thinking of you a lot…a whole lot.”

    The whole atmosphere was just weird.

  22. Yes, it has been announced Kenney has told Iowa no.

    Las Vegas has established Navy 31/2 point favorites. I would expect that to change.

    Always interesting the majority of fans of a majority of teams think the back-up QB is the man to run the show.

  23. debbie,

    i love this time of year when women like you expound upon the game of football. it gives me a strong, romantic, woody-autumnal feeling that puts me in my special place, be it the gridiron of bloomington, or the kitchen where i belong.

  24. Podunker
    Wednesday, September 12, 2012 – 4:00 PM UTC

    Can’t imagine why ND would not want to share the revenues they receive from their exclusive NBC football contract with all the other schools in the ACC.

    I wonder how much longer that NBC contract is going to run and how profitable it is for NBC? ND football is nothing special any more. I know they have tradition and a very loyal alumni group, but they have not been a top football program for many years. They’re mediocre at best. Given the other football games being broadcast at the same time, I’ll always choose to watch another game before watching ND. Whatever magic they used to have, it’s been gone for a long time.

    Harvard for Hillbillies
    Wednesday, September 12, 2012 – 4:13 PM UTC

    I think ND football will be back. I still think the tradition is there. I’ll always cheer for the Irish against USC or any the so-called “elite’ teams of the Big 10(those same elite teams that traditionally lost 9 out of every 10 games in a Rose Bowl contest against USC or UCLA over the last three decades). Though the contest in South Bend against Purdue went down to the wire, I think it’s more about PU having(dare I say?) a pretty strong team this year.


    Beat Michigan and MSU…Destroyed Miami…Downed Stanford in OT.

    Yup, the Irish are an undefeated “mediocre” team now ranked #5 in the nation.

    September seems so long ago. So sad to see all that tradition lost.

    Reminds me of how the Establishment was so quick to claim IU had lost their basketball prominence as we stand poised to shove more socks in mouths.

  25. Harvard, I’ve got to admit that the irony and reasoning behind your #29 has its own merit and logic. It got a good laugh out of me because there is a degree of truth (and cruelty) to it.

  26. HC, Podunker…seems to be the case that Kenney may be one of 3-5 from Indy/central Indiana seriously considering coming together to IU to establish Hoosier pride. Some of them would be de-commiting from decisions made earlier. Evidently, and as I understand it, they’ve hung out together at the MSU and OSU games and are very impressed with the coaching staff.

    Now wouldn’t that be a statement for that group to make. Not to mention they would become The Generation that established its own history.

    Podunker, do somewhat agree (stated so in another post) with your view of tackling. Somehow, I think that CKW probably understands the needs and understands the impact of competitive defense better than any of us since it is his offense bearing the weight and impact of shortcomings. He strikes me as a pretty analytical person with a basic, realistic and frank understanding of how things connect. Neither do I see him as being shy in confronting those issues.

  27. Oops, sorry…meant to address above to Chet as well. And, too many ‘understands/understandings’ in one hurriedly written post.

  28. Kenney is IU’s to lose. Allen then Kenney, could there be 1 more? That’s what a good coach and coaching staffs can do.

  29. The Seahawks have had a season's worth of epic endings in their first six games, but none was more precious or important than Sunday's 24-23 comeback victory over New England. says:

    Chet- glad your enjoying your time as the target of affection for our resident maniac and computer wizard. You deal with it better than I did.

  30. It was all over except for the catch. Sidney Rice made a graceful move to ditch his defender, Russell Wilson lofted a picturesque throw into the rainy sky and the ever-dramatic Seahawks were two soft hands from simultaneous jubilation this time. says:

    Oh and to Geoff and your faux-Patriot fanness: eat THIS!!!

  31. I know what you mean about the playground. It’s just a little too much in the center of the action on television.

    It especially makes me uncomfortable when they show it on TV and you can see a few of the players in there.

    That’s so wrong.

  32. Congrats to Korman on getting hitched!!..Hope there was plenty of Cutty and dancing through the night in Baltimore to Baltimora.

  33. Harvard – you may be right about Notre Dame being able to hold on to football relevance. They deserve every accolade they have coming their way this year. The Establishment argument that it will be difficult for teams not in warm weather climates to compete for a BCS bowl game every year seems to have some merit. But when you combine that with ND’s extremely high academic standards I can understand how they could struggle to put out highly competitive teams every year.

    That being said, there is something really special and totally unique about going to a game in South Bend. My father had season tix (in addition to his IU season tix) for the last several years because he was an adjunct professor at ND during the summer. I got to go to a couple games, including a USC blowout. There is a feeling of tradition and that just everything is right in the football world when your on that campus on a autumn Saturday with Touchdown Jesus in the background that isn’t felt quite the same way at Baylor, or Texas, TCU, or FSU, or IU, or BC or any of the other places I’ve watched a game. I can see how a top flight recruit would get swept up in that no matter where they’re from or who else recruiting them.

  34. I’m trying to figure out if everyone is being sarcastic about the Knot Hole or if you genuinely have an issue with it being there?

  35. ….akin to hoops at Indiana.

    Though you have to be somewhat careful. If you treat it too much like a shrine, and over-glorify the history, you run the risk of making it more into a museum than something young and blossoming. Programs need to evolve and step outside the stagnancy their own proclaimed greatness once achieved. Tradition needs reborn. When you’re young, you attract to the spring more than the winter. When Knight first came to IU, we we’re young. We had a young coach and an exciting atmosphere was brewing as we burst onto the scene of national exposure. You can’t go back to that. You have to reinvent yourself.

    Sometimes tradition becomes your worst enemy. Fans prefer formulas to winning that functioned in a different time for a different game. You have to let go and bring in fresh ideas and new names.

    I love our past, but I don’t want it back. I want us to move forward culturally and open our doors to kids that don’t necessarily come with all the classroom skills to graduate in three years. I’m all for strong academics, but I also want my alma mater to have heart, refrain from prejudging, and believe in second chances.

    If we’re honest with looking in the rear view mirror the days our tradition was born, I think we’ll discover our innocence and tolerance was our strongest asset.

    I sometimes think we looked at many of Sampson’s players as the 47%. We relished in the fact stereotypes were confirmed. I think that’s an ugly way to live…and it’s an ugly way to anchor your traditions.

  36. oops. I forgot to address the above post to Geoff(in response to his post #45).

  37. Finally watched the 30 For 30 “Broke”…

    Wow. Turns out everything I was writing a couple months back about athletes and finances was spot on. Anyone who hasn’t seen it should find it and watch at least half of it.

  38. HforH; you need to get a life. I can’t believe anyone would go back over a month and dig out a comment by another poster. Ever consider that you’re spending way too much time hovering over this site?

    But since you brought it up, I think your comment, “Yup, the Irish are an undefeated “mediocre” team” says it best. ND will not go undefeated this season. I’m guessing they will lose two games and fall out of the top ten. They’ll play in a bowl game, but it won’t be of consequence.

    ND is doing better than I expected, and they benefitted from a little home cookin on Saturday (he got the ball over the goal line), but they should have beaten Stanford at home. Consider that Arizona took Stanford to overtime on their home field the week before.

    If ND played in the SEC, they’d finish in the middle of that conference. Their tradition and their notoriety gets them their current top five ranking, but it won’t last. I’d say right now, they’re the 15th best team in the country. Again, better than I thought they’d be, but hardly deserving the exclusive NBC contract.

  39. Mike P- I was being somewhat sarcastic and at the same time acknowledging the point Harvard makes that the football stadium is a football stadium and the environment in plain sight may detract from the “serious football atmosphere” we may need to develop.

    Actually, I am torn: I see in the present layout an attempt at a seriously creative family atmosphere. On the other hand part of the problem- usually pointed at by outsiders- is that the program is not taken seriously.

    Someone once pointed out that a ‘dilemma’ is not the tension between ‘good’ and ‘bad’, but the equally competing arguments between two ‘goods’ (a family atmosphere vs a serious football environment) or when ‘bads’ clash (destroying the ‘knot hole family atmosphere’ vs fostering a “‘make believe’ B1G football reputation some shove on the Hoosiers.”

    The solution: when we continue to ‘celebrate’ football, seriously kick some arse and establish a reputation for solid, well played, tough football everyone will treat it as one hell of a good idea that adds to the attraction of ‘football’ as a family game and pleases a lot of kids who want to have fun on kid’s terms. Then we will see a lot of places trying to copy our ‘attraction’. If we don’t we could turn the stadium into a 1950’s style drive-in movies and no one would notice.

    Same is true of tailgating. In and off itself it is a wonderful community activity for all Hoosier fans. The problem is when it leads to serious alcohol abuse by underage drinkers; and the game is disrespected by those who merely show up with the purpose of becoming ‘drunks’ and imposing their behavior on every one else there. Not only is this bad, but when they leave the stadium at half-time to continue their ‘partying’ (aka alcohol abuse)they directly disrespect IU.

    I have a question perhaps someone reading this can answer…is drinking (or prohibited substance use)on campus (any IU facility) permitted? Perhaps, well and tightly enforced controls is the solution.

    (Please, anyone tempted to make your aggressions public, don’t bother with the ‘killjoy’ posts. I do drink but never where inappropriate to do so publicly and on where I may have to hide it from my grandchildren).

  40. I’ll take your advice, Geoff.

    Someday try to research the story of Bob Love..He was one of my childhood basketball heroes. I still have an autographed photo he personalized for me…I was probably eleven or twelve-years-old and met him by pure chance on a trip with my mom to the River Oaks Mall outside of Chicago(one of her favorite shopping destinations when I was a kid)..”Butterbean” was at the Carson Pirie Scott store…and, of course, I was the one speechless a chance to meet a hero in person.

    The story of “Butterbean” Love is about second chances in life and those willing to give when you’ve hit bottom. I also remember how the quite kindness of the man brought his Bulls teammate, the late, great, Norm Van Lier, to tears when he reminisced about his friend.

  41. Wow..Settle down, Podunker. Sounds like you have a very sensitive side to your hotheaded arrogance. Why wouldn’t I remember a comment from a very respected blogger that frequents this blog? It was only less than a month ago and it was relevant to football discussions. Why wouldn’t I remember someone condescending, takes jabs while proclaiming vast intelligence, brags of multiple college degrees and fluency in many languages, and enjoys demeaning others by making a shrine of his professional student status?

    So I spend too much time on Scoop. Sue me. Maybe you spend too much time in the mirror elevating yourself.

    And then, once that foundation of superiority is built, the said genius also begins to share his flawless understanding of football(particularly, Hoosier football) by carelessly and thoughtlessly throwing out a claim that a historically prominent football program residing in Indiana is essentially dead? Do we have to build up Indiana by pissing on another school? Isn’t the progress at IU enough to stand on its own? ND is in my home state. The school is only 50 miles from my childhood home. Tell me where you live and I’ll make a sh*thole everything 50 miles from your front door.

    Comments like yours reminded me of much the same talk from Establishment guys like Seth Davis when they take aim at IU basketball. Those types of blowhards stick in my brain. I love it when they prove just how far removed from reality whatever axe they have to grind lives. Don’t take it personally…I simply lump you in with the rest the gurus that believe the vile tone in their words is somehow unseen to the inferior beings they speak to; part of that great “objective,” all-knowing, thick invisible shield built of thick bullsh*t that hides their petty agendas.

  42. Correction:

    If Duke played in the BIG, they’d finish in the middle of that conference. Their tradition, [born from Coach K’s ties to brilliant tactician once at Indiana], and their notoriety gets them their current top five ranking [along with multiple appearances on ESPN and CBS TV], but it won’t last. I’d say right now, they’re the 15th best team in the country.

  43. I understand the wanting of the serious football atmosphere, but at the same time you have to build a fan base and the Knot Hole attracts more younger fans with children who will be spending money for years to come, especially if the team develops.

    Saturday I was sitting around some tOSU fans who had not seen the Knot Hole park in person before and there comments about it were all positive.

    I grew up going to IU games in the 80’s, when we played on the hill in the North Endzone during games, part of that time down there with my friends trying to emulate the players on the field in our pick up games will always be some of my favorite memories, as will my son’s time in Knot Hole park will be great memories for him and I.

    I tailgate every week, usually enter the stadium about 30 minutes before game time and don’t leave until the end of the game. Indiana tailgating gets out of control, but I feel it has been much more calm this year than in the past. I agree it is an embarrassment when the stadium loses 1/2 its population at halftime, and the student section is the most embarrassing aspect of it all.

  44. The game on Saturday lasted ’til almost midnight..Put the kiddies to bed. Those kids climb into vehicles when plenty of drunks are on the roads at that hour.

    Build a mean and ‘no excuses’ football program and the kids will have plenty to emulate in their backyards without turning our end zones into picnic and playground areas. Losing is a disease. Why let them play near live virus?

    Maybe a end zone dog park would be nice? “Dawg Pound II… Bring the pets too!” Can’t you just hear Fred Glass on his next family fun promotion? Yes, why should the family mutt be excluded some fetch and retrieval a Nerf spiral into the Bloomington autumn moon? And at least their offensive dumping and long runs wouldn’t end up on the scoreboard(ScoopTalk, anyone?). Hell, Chet might actually make the long haul to come to a game with his Golden Lab, “Gunner.”

  45. I would estimate somewhere between the number that Tsao and Podunker attend(two of our most knowledgeable and dedicated Hoosier football fans on Scoop).

  46. I’ll put on my Establishment hat again, since it fits when the truth is being told…

    Duke doesnt fit that paragraph because they have won 4 national titles since 1990. That is more than anyone else over that time span and 4 times more than all the B1G teams combined.

    I know you like to hate on Duke, I can’t stand them either, but at least criticize them on something that can stick.

  47. Back off Knot Hole park folks. The kids that play there for the most part have IU symbols on and are having a good time. Even a serious sports program can promote to young fans and their parents who have money to spend. I am a season ticket holder in football and basketball. Not only am I, but also my wife, my daughter, and soon one of my sons are IU grads. My grandsons play in the kids zone every game. It is a family atmosphere and should be.

  48. HforH, who is it that needs to settle down? Looks like I touched a nerve, but really, I was just joshing you back. I’m flattered that you have invested so much time and effort into an irrelevant post about ND football made about a month ago.

    But it appears you are, once again, a bit confused. Am I a “a very respected blogger” or am I a “condescending” blogger that “takes jabs while proclaiming vast intelligence?” I don’t recall ever “proclaiming vast intelligence” to anyone, at any time, anywhere; in person or otherwise. And for the record, I have never mentioned multiple degrees, aside from establishing that I am an IU alumni. I only speak English, and some would debate how fluent I am in that. As for demeaning others, I think you may be “reflecting” again.

    I never suggested that ND football was dead, I just suggested that they have been, in terms of the national college football landscape, and relative to their past success, a mediocre football program. I think their record over the last decade or so supports that statement.

    As a reminder, this is a sports site and I believe the purpose of such sites is to exchange information and offer opinions about college sports, with an emphasis on IU sports.

  49. And for the record, I have two close personal friends that played football for Notre Dame many years ago. They played back in ND’s glory days and remain extremely loyal alumni. Although they might not write such comments in a public forum, they have both expressed, with some sadness, similar doubt about ND returning to that level of national prominence in football. They site the University’s rigidity in maintaining high academic standards for its football players and suggest that it is increasingly more difficult for ND to recruit enough of the best talent to compete with teams like Alabama, Florida, Oregon, USC and etc.

    But who knows, we could be wrong and ND may rise to the top of college football, once again.

  50. I’m constantly amazed how new bloggers just come out of the cracks as soon as their panties get in a ruffle.

    I’m entitled to my opinion. I think there’s plenty of fun ways to spend time with your kids and grandkids(including cheering in the stands for a couple hours).

    I don’t think a prime time game on television with the image of kids hopping around outside the end zone(during the game) is one of a football program to be taken seriously. It’s my opinion.

    Football is violent sport and the images are not congruous to my taste of wanting only the hard-hitting, testosterone-filled, brutality of gladiators that allow me a brief escape my normal soft 21st century lifestyle. I do not mind the occasional mix of a hot looking sideline reporter…Sex and violence..if you know what I mean. The horrific impact of Hoosiers crashing helmets with wussy Buckeyes contrasted with the the soft curvy tones coming out the vocal chords of Ines Sainz commentary(you do the rhyming)? Get my drift?

    I thoroughly enjoyed taking my nieces and nephews to games when they were kids. It didn’t require finding something to keep them busy for a lousy couple hours. We had great conversation about the game(and sometimes very little to do with the game)and they enjoyed being part of the crowd.

    Parents today always want to push their kids away. They use every excuse in the book to not spend teaching and talking time. They forever want to leave them as kids out of their big adult worlds. The only real thing a kid cares about is the honest feeling in their heart that you enjoy being around them.

    I’m beginning to think the kids in the end zone deal is just a lazy way to keep youngsters away from the vulgarity that now occurs at sporting events. It’s sad that adults ruin it for kids if that’s what it’s coming to. We now need kid-friendly areas because foul-mouthed fans screaming obscenities at referrers, or doing drunken “You Suck!” and “_uckeye” chants, can’t have a good time without being obscene?

    We do separate ourselves from kids for kids. We separate so we can have our good ‘ol perverse fun.

  51. oops.

    We do [not] separate ourselves from kids for kids. We separate so we can have our good ol’ perverse fun.

  52. I think Harvard has done a bit of transference of TTG’s multiple degrees and languages and attributed them to Podunker.

    Personally, I have a semi functional use of English and I can mumble in Spanish.

  53. Are you honestly questioning my memory again? Do you really want more cut-and-paste?

    I may not possess the “seasoned” life the rest of you have grown accustomed to divulging regularly with such unparalleled worldliness your successes, travels, and groundbreaking careers from rags to riches, but I do have a very unique set of skills in the areas of recall. Next best thing to my perimeter jump shot is my memory.

    I will happily go back and find the Podunker posts. I may be manic..I may be compulsive. I may be obsessive. I may be tactless. I may be hypocritical. I may be dysfunctional. I may be forever loveless and in the shadows of my Jack and the Beanstalk father(I suppose you would like that one put before your eyes again?), but I don’t make sh*t up.

  54. Mike P, the tension between the Knot Hole and our dream to be taken super-seriously is just ironic, I thought. I do agree that given a choice, keep the kids playing…and everyone will wonder why they didn’t think of it.

    Now, the tradition of leaving at or about half-time…the way to resolve that is that when we see the lines going down the steps begin to form, the real faans stand up and start loudly pointing at them …

  55. A successful Knot Hole park will have a lot to do in the future with slowing down that exodus of fans at halftime. It seems to me building a loyal fan base in conjunction with a successful FB program is partly a human resources issue. Knot Hole Park is simply the construction building to that end. I expect there are a lot of people with Mike P.’s youthful memories helping make him/them strong IU FB supporters. AD Glass has the same memories and simply identified there are not enough of those mature supporters. Knot Hole is perfect for developing his goal.

    HfH I just realized you spend more time writing corrections to your posts than I do writing posts.

  56. #57 was a satirical correction to Podunker’s remarks concerning ND football.

    But you are correct, I have a bad habit of proofreading after the fact. I never promised you a rose garden…So, I guess, I just beg your pardon with all those “oops.”

    At the end of the day, if the Knot Hole brings smiles to kids faces, then let it be. It’s probably fun as hell for them to fantasy they are playing to the cheers. If it gets kids off their butts(like my own stuck to a chair far too long while on this computer), then there are positives that are hard to find fault. They are certainly better off at Knot Hole than being lured into a Penn State locker room.

    I was merely saying that the images I witnessed on TV while Glass was being interviewed made the game seem a bit frivolous. For the kids, the game is basically a side show. I thought the skipping about on the miniature field and the picnic, happy-go-lucky, atmosphere stood in rather stark contrast to a Dick Butkus mentality of hungry, take no prisoners, dirt in your helmet, growling, mean-a$$ football.

    Hoosiers isn’t much of a mean sounding name to begin with. We need all the help we can get. Wolverines, Tigers, Lions, Bears, Spartans, Wildcats…? Ask the kiddies in the end zone if “Hoosiers” sounds like something scary to dress up as for Halloween.

    Let’s just paint the goal posts pink and be done with it.

  57. Team names? I think they changed it to the Braves (if they haven’t been incorporated out of existence) but when I was a tyke Borden High School players were called the Berries.

    That’s just sad.

    …and what’s the story behind Vincennes? The Alices? WTF? Who was Alice?

  58. Harvard has a point. Maybe we can start a tradition in which a Hoosier is some terrifying beast with fangs and such. The mere name would strike fear in small children.

    “Daddy, daddy I had a nightmare about a Hoosier.”

    What a cool gig it would be to be the mascot and send kids screaming to their mommies.

    I like it.

  59. If you did some investigation rather than smart-off you’d learn that there is some historical value to being called the “Alices”. But, of course, you don’t care about history or truth.

  60. Well, no, it really isn’t very important to me other than it being a funny name.

    Thanks for the impromptu psychoanalysis, though. I hear the professional stuff is really expensive.

  61. OK, I looked it up. Alice was a character from a turn-of-the-century romance novel written by one Maurice Thompson (now available as a free download e-book).

    That’s hilarious.

  62. Knot Hole park should be closed, but only when that space is needed to build more seats to handle the overflow due to increased ticket sales.

    And speaking of mascots (Hoosier with fangs?), my boy was asking about the IU mascot and I didn’t have an answer. But how about a live, grass eating, poo-dropping buffalo to lead the team out of the tunnel? The Indiana state seal does have a bison on it.

  63. A loss is a loss is a loss but there certainly are positive aspects to it, for example, the idea with a buffalo mascot is almost genius. I can almost see it

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