Hoosier Scoop Sage Take of the Day, Nov. 13, 2012


The great Bill Garrett died of a heart condition, far too young at age 45, the very month I matriculated at Indiana University-Bloomington in August of 1974. Seems so long ago. And is.

That came to mind as I watched IU honor Garrett with a halftime ceremony Monday night at Assembly Hall.

The ceremony was all well and good, as far as it went. Members of the Garrett family were presented a framed Indiana jersey bearing Garrett’s No. 8 and a commemorative poster and drew a nice standing ovation from the crowd.

But for the man who broke the Big Ten color barrier for basketball in 1947, the same year Jackie Robinson did the same for Major League Baseball? Not enough. Too little. Far too late.

Garrett, the state’s Mr. Basketball from Shelbyville, set an exemplary example on and off the court while braving everything that came from being that sort of pioneer.

It’s an example that calls for permanent, prominent enshrinement on campus.

This perhaps isn’t the time or place to rehash in detail the embarrassing mess the university made four years ago with a miscalculated, misbegotten notion to affix Garrett’s name alongside that of Ora L. Wildermuth as the formal title for the structure long called the HPER building.

Wildermuth, who died in 1964, was a lawyer, a judge and a former president of IU’s board of trustees. He also happened to be a racist and unrepentant segregationist, as letters uncovered after his death that were written to IU colleagues clearly revealed.

Here’s a little tidbit from one of Wildermuth’s letters: “I am and shall always remain absolutely and utterly opposed to the social intermingling of the colored race with the white. I belong to the white race and shall remain loyal to it. It always has been the dominant and leading race.”

It’s little wonder that Garrett’s immediate family wanted nothing to do with the idea of combining the Garrett name with Wildermuth’s.

IU and its athletic department can take pride in the fact they desegregated their teams before many other like institutions, in part due to the enlightened leadership of then-university president Herman B Wells. Coach Bo McMillin, though a southerner, recruited black football players at IU soon after he arrived in Bloomington in 1934. And Garrett arriving to play for Branch McCracken a little over a decade later broke what had been a shameful “gentlemen’s agreement” between Big Ten basketball coaches.

Garrett was a superb player. He led IU in scoring and rebounding for three straight seasons, and the Hoosiers went 19-3 his senior year, when he was a consensus second team All-American. His teammates voted him MVP. He was the third black player ever drafted into the NBA. And he was, by all accounts, an even better person than he was a player.

So it’s time for IU to honor Garrett in some more significant and permanent way than Monday’s ceremony could conjure.

Forget the HPER building (other than stripping the Wildermuth name off it, which seems an appropriate gesture). What about that nicer, newer establishment over on Law Lane bearing the generic and ungainly moniker: “Student Recreational Sports Center.”

The William L. Garrett Sports Center has a nice ring to it.

Do it, IU. Now. Right thing to do. Well past time.


  1. …or the Garrett family could have demonstrated just how far above the fray they really are with breaking down yet another barrier toward progress by allowing BG’s name to also be affixed to the HPER…
    Another view from a different direction.

  2. I understand what you’re getting at but I just don’t know…

    The ‘Martin Luther King/Lester Maddox Memorial Library’.

    I just don’t see it. It bestows too much honor on the racist half.

  3. …and you know what I am getting at…(?)…Really!

    If that is the case I should quit ordering my coffee black.

  4. HC, I don’t think he was saying that in an accusatory manner… I think he was actually saying he understands your point, but disagrees…

    I like the “exemplary example” quote, reminds me of the “grounded to the GROUND!?” commercial…

  5. Keep in mind that our ex-coach has let it be known that we can name Assembly Hall in his honor if we kiss his a** one more time then be happy when he ignores the honor. Garrett Hall. Just sayin.

  6. Chet, Geoff I did not take it as accusatory. If I had my reply would have been more aggressive. The 1st line in #3 is easily understood. My stance is this; if people who look different are to be born in the same hospital, live in homes side by side, go to the same schools, churches, retail venues, build relationships together, etc., then there is no reason for those 2 names to not be together on the HPER building(library, bridge, highway). Do something that will bury the damn hatchet cause what is being done currently and in the recent past “ain’t gettin it”. Hell I did not know Wildermuth’s history(as is so for probably 99.3% of everyone else on here)and I don’t care about it. Roses and thorns, enjoy one and deal with the other or die with a grudge.

  7. Good stuff Clarion. Sorry, I deal with Harv and his reading between the lines and conspiracy theories so much that thought you were heading down the path of looking to hard at a comment… Totally my bad.

  8. Geoff, no harm, I am fine with it. I am just a racist trying to look at that whole picture, clearly. Most people treat it like trying to eat an elephant, they walk around and around it trying to figure out where to take the 1st bite. Get to the task at hand.

    BB season is here. I know Chet, myself and a couple of others enjoy your game/player analysis. Bring it.

  9. kirk81, great idea. If we named it after RMK, half (or more) IU fans would hate it, he would give IU the finger and not show up which would be awkward and embarrassing, and whenever it was mentioned there would be as many detractors as supporters.

    If we named it after Garrett it would cover both Garrett and IU in glory.

  10. Just think how bad UK looks for naming their arena after an unrepentant racist (and I’m not saying RMK was a racist, just that he had issues).

  11. Geoff, what HC said.

    For some reason, along my collegiate travails I picked up a minor in film study. While it’s useless, I do enjoy films more now that I know more about them.

    Same goes for Geoff’s analysis. While his detractors certainly may have fair and reasonable differing views on tactics, personnel, etc., I find the people who dismiss him as a know nothing to be laughable. He’s watching things I rarely think of (5 times).

    The guy knows basketball.

  12. Thanks guys…

    I am hoping that the BTN has a replay of the IU game scheduled, because it was pretty tough to watch on btn.com last night. I do have the Bryant game dvr’d and need to watch it again for some analysis (as you may remember, I always watch live as a fan, and then watch the tape to analyze).

    Some of the things I’ll be looking for, so as not to repeat too much from last season, are:
    – individual improvements (or regressions)
    – how certain player combinations work
    – freshman
    – any new schemes or philosophies

  13. Game on BTN this afternoon at 5pm in Chicago.

    Defense wins championships, I am not seeing shut down D yet.

    Great story on Garrett, I am proud of IU’s ability to lead the way.

  14. Chicago Hoosier – thanks, jst set the dvr remotely. (love that feature)

    I don’t know the efficiency numbers yet, but I’m not sure you assessment is fair. IU plays at a very fast pace and has held their 2 opponents to 54 and 61 points.

    Bryant shot 32% FG and only 14% from 3… IU turned them over 17 times and pulled down 76% of their defensive rebounding opportunities (35 of 46)… IU also did it without fouling – 16 fouls leading to 17 FTs

    NDST shot only 41% FG, turned it over 16 times, and IU won 80% of their defensive rebounding opportunities (27 of 34)… Again IU pressured without fouling – 15 fouls leading to only 9 FTs…

    IU has also done that with 3 interior defenders sitting on the bench, 2 of which give serious rim protection when in the game. That and Zeller was sick last night and couldn’t expend a ton of energy on D, so we essentially had 0 effective interior defenders.

    What would you consider shut down D… In 25-45 point blowouts?

  15. If issues are the benchmark for not putting a persons name on something then we’ve screwed up every time we’ve celebrated dedicating something for namesake. Perfection escapes us all and the goal is simply harmony. Respectfully, the Garrett family did not understand the depth of the opportunity.

    Indeed when it came to race RMK was color blind. As to IU fans, alumni and residents of Indiana there are far more pro than con about Bob Knight.

  16. And Geoff, thereby lies the reason why I have a hard time believing you engage your brain half the time (which is way preferable to believing you don’t have one).

    HC point has depth to it. He is not reacting nor spouting the latest ultra-liberal left revision. He is giving due to a deep and complex subject that is not explained nor understood by a quick look at numbers. It takes thought and then…deeper thought. In this case, HC displays wisdom which is a filter we should all attempt to develop.

    Try it… sometimes Geoff, ‘my bad’ doesn’t cut it. My dad used to tell me “my bad, my ass…you’ll do it again tomorrow!” (just before the flying saucer of his cupped hand slid across the now bald spot on the top-back of my head).

  17. Geoff…and don’t use Harvard as an excuse. Harvard is absolutely a good guy. Sometimes involved with himself (way too hard on himself), sometimes he even provokes himself but I’m not sure I’ve ever seen four words of malice in Harvard (except in the long war with Laffy, and hopefully they have both declared a sustainable truce). If anything, HfH over reacts to the disappointment that people use each other to work out their own frustrations (that probably includes me sometimes)…but there’s no malice and that my friend merits respect (he’s got mine, I believe he has Chet’s and others) not derision.

    Why would you use Harvard to explain your screw up (#8)? You just screwed up. Sometimes you tend to try to ingratiate yourself at the expense of someone else. You do have valuable things to contribute, stay on those.

    Hope you can…it will be a challenge.

  18. Great thoughts on Bill Garrett. (Little growl coming out of my throat, remember Mr. Garrett when he was coaching Indianapolis Crispus Attucks).

    We’ve been privileged at Indiana to have had the essence of dignity taught to us by example through two incredible individuals, George Taliaferro and Bill Garret. Our athletic complex sits concentrated in one area and forms its own small campus. Perhaps naming the entire area the Taliaferro-Garrett Athletic Campus (with proper signage and monuments) would recognize the enormous contribution of these two fine men and our love for them.

    IU Board, please do your best to make this happen soon.

    Andy…indeed the Sage!

  19. Geoff, Chicago Hoosier has a point. We (IU) have a real issue on defense. That is not new, it is old news. This is a high scoring team, a very talented team but Chocago Hoosiers point (which agrees with mine) is that we don’t do nearly enough to deny access inside or…even worse…shut off the kinds of looks that allow teams to score from outside, or to deny them the passes or the space to dribble inside the 3-point line.

    It’s one thing to say we want to defend with lots of intensity; another completely different to say ‘with intensity and intelligently. In other words, if he opponent is seeking the top three of six options, we are not forcing them to have to rely on number 5 or 6. In my view, that was way too clear last night.

    Your last line on #16 “…what to expect (of opponent)…25-45 points..” is not the point. We ought not to play against an opponent, we play against the game.

  20. Tsao – nothing I said was aggregious. I simply misread intent of a post which can be easy to do when you can’t hear inflection or see an expression… It didn’t even really need an apology. If I did it again it wouldn’t be a big deal.

    I didn’t question the depth of HC’s original point, and the sentence I misunderstood had zero depth to it… It was a retort.

    I also think Harv is a good guy, and I’m not accusing him of malice. However, Harvard’s shtick is accusing others of implying certain things with their rather innocuous statements, or believing their is some other intent in innocent comments.

    Typical Tsao… Telling others how to act, while doing exactly the thing he is preaching against. In this case misunderstanding a post.

  21. Ok, but this year’s team is different than last year’s team. And further, the current roster is different from one we’ll see in a month.

    It’s easy to make statements that IU struggles to get stops, but where is the evidence. If you want to bring up last year as evidence, well then no one cares. So far this year we have defensively dominated one team and did a pretty good job on the other.

    All we can go on is how the current roster is performing defensively, and right now everything points to it performing very well.

  22. I remember long ago reading a IDS Basketblog post when the topic of Bill Garrett and racism came up between two old friends chatting on a blogging island their own.

    Posted by Blinders at 10:18 am on March 23, 2009

    Just remember, my friend, that racism is just as prevalent on college campuses today than it was in the 50’s and 60’s….It isn’t that difficult to see if you take off your slick blinders that only offer a view critical of the past(a very simplistic view that dumbs down bigotry and hatred into narrow-minded assumptions based on representations of black and white participants on a basketball court) but ignores the present day disparities in higher education. Do you see diversity and equal representation in the student cheering sections of our fine higher learning institutions? Do you look beyond the players on the court and into the classrooms? Do you think African Americans have proportional representation in IU’s graduate school programs anywhere near the equivalency in numbers to its athletic programs? Maybe you should try a new angle to your methodology of assessing racism…Instead of judging Indiana on what you saw from a black and white photo of a basketball team from the 1950’s, maybe you should take your digital camera to a game next year and point it to the toward the stands…Take a bright and high pixel color image of the thousands of students and alumni that attend IU basketball games…Take a good hard look at the photo….Do you even really need to take the photo? Haven’t you already seen what the photo will tell you? ….I believe you could take your camera to every school represented by the field of sixteen teams remaining in this year’s NCAA tournament and the photograph would not look much different…Your arguments are small. You trivialize racism by ignoring the socioeconomic barriers in place that have long served as obstacles to equal achievement and access to education at every level of learning. We still live in a segmented society that limits opportunity because of disparities in economic class ……You may not label it as racism, but the effect is far more reaching and detrimental to American society. Are you really so naive to believe that equality on a basketball court is the measure of equality in American society? Next time you look up to the cheering masses in Assembly Hall, don’t forget to wear your favorite pair of blinders. I fear that if you take them off, it may just serve as reminder to just how far we have not come…..Why are you so bent on just placing a label on Indiana?

    Tsao- Thank you for those kind words.

    Here’s Geoff’s Hoosier basketball analysis(front center) closely followed by the heavy hitters of the Establishment(Seth, Gottlieb, and Dickie V).

  23. Well first of all, no it isn’t as prevalent today, but that doesnt mean that barriers don’t exist. Not sure if Harvard = Blinders but the requisite hyperbole was there.

    Secondly, Harvard I think you meant to include a link…

  24. oops.

    Here’s Geoff’s Hoosier basketball analysis(front center) closely followed by the heavy hitters of the Establishment(back row: Seth, Gottlieb, and Dickie V).

    Pinot Grigio!!

  25. I predict Remy will miss his next jumper…He’s due.

    I never saw this Remy kid coming. Crean is a genius…(for reading Hoosier Scoop).

  26. I just heard on the WBBM news last night(radio 780, Chicago) that graduate school programs across the U.S. had an average of a 20% increase in Chinese student enrollment last year.

    And Ron Patterson is kicked off a team for a couple bad grades during summer school. This is the road your paving…You think there is disparity now? Wait until you see the picture in fifteen years. Our cities are war zones with crumbling schools and we’re filling our finest college programs with the “prestige” of intellect every off-the-charts SAT score attached to an application from overseas.

  27. I don’t disagree that there is disparity… But by definition, our finest academic institutions wouldn’t be that without the finest students.

  28. Potential, Geoff, potential(e.g. Remy). You have to value potential in individuals and have a keen eye into the heart of detemintation..not just the obvious of something already measured(Rivals list).

    We to easily discount someone gone off course. We to often measure those things most easily used to segregate and remove the equations of creative and social intelligence. The finest doctor under pressure a critical surgical procedure is not necessarily the scalpel with the highest test score.

  29. You are making way too many assumptions… If you are just talking about admission standards in general then students should understand that their HS performance, extracurriculars, and test scores are what is going to be looked at. There are only so many spots, and why would a school deem an in-state “project” to have more potential than a high-achieving foreigner?

    Now if you are trying to make a statement about Buss, then you have no information to support your statements. It’s all assumption in direct opposition to the information you have been given.

    It’s an assumption that Buss went off course… He could have just performed to the level he always has and upon a close inspection by the committee it was deemed that this was not the right environment for him academically.

    And if you want to talk about performing under pressure… well Buss was under pressure to perform academically this summer, and he didn’t perform up to standards.

    If you want to talk about determination… Buss was either unable, or not determined enough, to succeed at summer school. Either way, it apparently wasn’t the right fit.

    I could give a rats ass about the rivals list in Buss’s case. I wanted him on the team. I was looking forward to his style of play. I think Crean would have loved to incorporate his tenacity into the frenetic style he wants to create… But it didn’t work out.

    If the committee had decided that Buss had the potential, determination, and ability to succeed academically at IU he would be here right now.

    If you have information otherwise then share it. If you are just coming up with more conspiracy theories then save your breath.

    Thanks for bringing up Remy. It proves that Crean is willing to bring in someone who may be unproven and not highly regarded…. As long as they can pass the academic muster.

  30. A constant here is that CTC obviously has one heck of an eye for talent. Sheehey, Oladipo and Remy are clear testimony to that fact. I think, likewise, there are a couple of players on the incoming class who will also be surprises to the ‘common’ eye (Davis? Hartmann, Fischer?). There’s something else I believe; some players like Etherington are role players…they carry out an important function that allows for the structure to work. A player i thought was incredibly important in the 1981 was Jim Thomas. He was an extraordinary player, one of the best ‘timing’ and ‘position’ rebounders I’ve ever seen. Most important, he knew the relationship between function and structure, his role and his impact on the team.

    I believe that Remy Abell is exactly Jim Thomas in 2012. And, Abell is rounding out and completing himself as a basketball player to a point that he could develop into a very, very ‘star’ type.

    One thing that is interesting for me to watch are these waves of 10-12 players and the effect it may have not only on the opponent but on IU itself,where the term starter becomes meaningless and the expectations spread across the entire team bench. There by lies the ‘balance’ the Greeks sought and portrayed as symbolic of ‘perfection’, and the symmetry that makes the Hoosiers so attractive to watch.

    Maybe, the introduction before home games should feature the players who are not starting and let the fans figure out the rest.

  31. That’s actually a really good idea Tsao. Why fall in with tradition and just intro the starters every game. It would be great to announce just the bench and get the true “Ubuntu” philosophy going.

  32. Save your own breath. We were over-signed by one in the number of scholarships available. If you allow Roth his final year of eligibility, then we were over by two.

    Crean had forced his own hand in having to turn away two players. Roth was an easy solution, but where does he find the next name to build a legitimate reason for refusal the spot on the team?

    I don’t believe anything honorable happened here. Where else was Crean going to make the move? Etherington? Right. One of two A-Hope kids? Right. Miraculously, one the eve of where all push came to all shove, a “committee” determines the Broad Ripple High School kid is a bad fit. What a shocker. And to think Jamarcus Ellis was studying microbiology while living out of the backseat of junker car.

    You can sell that sh*t to your elite Establishment friends(more of which get into top institutions because they’re corporate CEO andMerrill Lynch mommies and daddies send big bucks in gifts to their kid’s college of choice so they glance with blurry eyes at their test scores and transcript blemishes than any Ron Patterson you’re painted as an ‘unreasonable’ academic risk), but I know better.

    And I don’t give a “rat’s ass” what the university feeds the press and in turn spoon feeds the public to make it your unquestionable and undeniable facts.

    Here’s the only fact. Here’s the only non-assumption. Someone had to go. Someone had to be cut from the roster. Someone had to have their scholarship withdrawn only weeks before the start of the season. Find the guy you can safely put a label on to make it all look kosher. When you have all those Jesus quotes in your corner, the bigots swallow it all with a glass of holy water and it doesn’t cause one bit of indigestion.

    I’ll swallow your kosher BS the day I see parents of a Broad Ripple HS kid have enough clout, pocketbook, and influence to buy their son an acceptance letter.

    Sometimes you mingle with giant rodents in the dark so long, you don’t even recognize the smell of a rat’s ass.

  33. Never said they were unquestionable or undeniable… Just that they are the only facts we have. Anything else is conjecture, accusation, and assumption.

  34. And it has nothing to do with Jesus freaks or bigotry. Anyone who knows me would tell you I’m neither. The “committee” exists and, because I know several IU professors and the calibre of people they are, I choose to believe in the ethical handling of this situation by them. I don’t think they would let Crean make the decision for them, in other words.

  35. Everyone is “unethical” but Hillbilly.

    He’s worse than the Thumpers with his holier-than-thou garbage.

  36. Someone had to go, Geoff. It’s all so kosher. More kosher than a Vlasic pickle Tom Crean needed to find in a jar packed too tightly with seedy cucumbers. If not Patterson, then who? Creek? Crucifixions and cutting a kid that we’ve seen on crutches and may be on crutches again? I don’t think so. Kids brought thousands of miles for all the hopes and promises the American dream? I don’t think so? The CEO behind the movement? I don’t think so.

    Remy? Even you thought it might be Remy. You were so kosher in all your reasoning to why it should be Remy. But Remy was lucky this go around. Next year?

    Where’s the pickle that doesn’t fit in the jar? Lock the kid up with some professors and let “the committee” dissect his brain like a lab toad and claim he just will never have what it takes to be a Jonny Marlin.

    We’ve gone from “19 F’s!!” to a prestigious committee wearing their highfalutin lab coats for a coach in a crunch.. “We have determined that Ron Patterson is still playing with wooden alphabet blocks….Send him to Syracuse….Forward lab restults to Tom Crean.”

    Doesn’t it all make you feel so kosher.

  37. And Bible experts out there..? Reggie? Where the hell are ya? Mowing lawn season is over. Come out, come out, whatever basement you’re locked in…I need a passage..John, Paul, Ringo…Give me something.

    There must be some passage that relates to all of this labeling. The meek shall inherit the scholarahip..? Putting the Sampson kids on the flunkie and junkie bus…Patterson on a dumb bus…Jonny Marlin on a pedestal. Joyce Meyer quotes. Casting aside those not good enough…Passage? Anyone?

    Reggie, when you’re done mounting those gangsta spinners on dad’s Escalade, can you give me a passage?

  38. And could you send your lab coats that made Patterson into a toad into the halls of the NCAA so they can shut down Kentucky? I’m really getting sick of listening to Dickie V talk of that school like it is the college basketball temple of hope and prestige.

    Patterson is run through a sewage of assumptions his inadequacies and Calipari(a guy with a history of putting a kid in a uniform that sent in a fraudulent SAT score) and his leapfrogs are made the idols of the game simply because they’re all going to be lottery picks?

    I’m all for committees. Let “the committee” put all the kids not up to snuff on an NBA bus and keep their illiteracy away from all college campuses. Why should Patterson be the poster child toad? “Because it’s Indiana?” What a bunch of crap. Even the playing field and quit drastically over-signing so you can pick and choose your crucifixions while other programs don’t need mysterious backroom committees to get slobbered all over by the ESPN bigots drooling over the genius of John Calipari and his trapeze act of one-and-done’s never subjected to lab experiments a Ron Patterson must endure.

  39. 1) Buss isn’t the poster child of anything… Barely anyone outside of Indiana or Syracuse has heard of him.
    2) The only one making assumptions about him is you.
    3) as Chet will proclaim loudly, UK has slightly different academic standards than IU, and not just within the basketball program.

  40. We are the ones looking like vegetables..We play the role to the exacting desires of the NCAA. We do their work. We perform the crucifixions that save them from their own hypocrisy. We strive to be the example, turn the borderline kids just shy of NBA scouts into muck, while they live in the hypocrisy of TV ratings their real motivations behind investigations and enforcements.

    Bring your damn professor friends into the NCAA offices..Put those toads to the rigors a lab experiment. Bring a few lie detector machines with you so you get the “facts” behind the Pattersons of college basketball getting the labels that shall never be cast upon a Kentucky recruit. We play the role to their desires. The corn..The crosses..The examples. All so the “elite” can stand on their mountains and judge from a corrupt bench with nothing of equality in their eye. Indiana is the perfect “fit” for playing the holier-than-thou and ignorance game in college basketball.

    Like I said..You get to used to hanging with giant rodents in the dark, you forget what a rat’s ass smells like.

  41. Patterson is currently in a prep school for his own admitted academic failures. Do you think the kid would let himself be the goat and tarnish his reputation and ability to get into school in the future? If the things being said about him are not true, and I was in his shoes, I’d be screaming to the heavens that they were lying.

    Bottom line is he took 2 classes, his GPA was below acceptable as well as other academic issues that would have led to any student being expelled from the University. Sometimes things are as simple as they look, this is one of those cases.

  42. I’d rather be an attention whore than Geoff’s leg-humping toy poodle attempting to scratch his crusty underbelly pus soars as a form of perverse blogging arousal.

  43. If he was that academically behind, they had to know it before they ever offered him a scholarship. It would have never needed to be “all or nothing” summers school scenario. Crean’s numbers didn’t add up and someone had to be the goat to go.

    We were over-signed. That’s the only pertinent fact. If we were not over-signed, we could have played a Duke card and invented alphabet block classes to raise the GPA. Of course, the kid must now show he’s going through the proper steps once he is put on a stage of inadequacy. Do you think Syracuse needs anymore scrutiny than they’ve already been receiving? There would have been no stage without the over-sign. There would be effort, tutoring, and smooth sailing in Sesame Street classes(similar to those the NCAA allows a Kentucky NBA prospect to enroll in).

  44. The Patterson kid got much more than he earned. It wasn’t an issue of GPA nor academic predictability Harvard. He was given a chance to demonstrate ‘readiness’ for college so then he could work on developing academic skills. It wasn’t his grades, it was his habits such as class attendance, tardiness, work habits in terms of work turned in, discipline shown…factors that were behavioral. That’s why the committee decided to pull the plug, and probably (I certainly do not know for sure) CTC had no voice given in the matter.

    Yesterday you wrote of seeing Black kids as students not basketball players. You wrote that. That’s what happened in Patterson’s case. Ask yourself why other institutions (besides Syracuse which was having a tough time recruiting because of an alleged sexual abuse case), including Louisville, Kentucky, Cincinnati, De Paul barely made an attempt to bring him in.

    There’s a second point, and it also addresses the point you wrote about yesterday. Schools and universities have one job, educating people to developing the skills that take them out of tough circumstances and that, while at it, impact their children and their children’s children. While we all enjoy it and are entertained, we are not about basketball, football, soccer or any other sport. Nor are universities there to resolve the social and economic ills of people directly…they are there to do so through their education.

    I also know of the Chicago players brought to IU during the Sampson years. I was shocked beyond speech when I heard IU had admitted them. There was no basis for that decision other than the clout of one pretty corrupt coach. Their (the player’s problems were much more a part of their lifestyle- a chosen lifestyle that fully embraced and which left a trail of victims behind including members of their own families. So don’t shed a tear for them. Shed a tear for the real victims who happen to be their neighbors, duck the nightly drive-by’s and the other kids who try to survive in their schools and are systematically victimized every single day.

    I think your instincts may be good, just don’t waste them on the vultures.

  45. Yes, they did know…that’s what leaves me speechless. and, the question of his dismissal is separate and independent of the over-signing issue. In a sense, Patterson resolved the dilemma faced by CTC because of over-signing. I’m concerned that we are right back where we were on that same issue.

    And yes Roberto, it does go on and on and on. That’s the nature of this blog and, frankly, I think it is a good thing as the over-signing issue shows. That’s the nature of dilemmas. I don’t understand why it should bother you. I’m sure there are one-and-done blogs elsewhere.

  46. Bob Knight is doing the Georgia IU game.

    It’s hard to overlook 15 comments on the same subject matter and the 50,000 words. Real information is being buried.

  47. It wasn’t his grades, it was his habits such as class attendance, tardiness, work habits in terms of work turned in, discipline shown…factors that were behavioral.

    Where do you get all your facts? Are you on the inside like Geoff? Wow..So many “insiders” on Scoop…No wonder Dustin never needs a Scoop..All we need to do is turn to Tsao and Geoff for all the “in the know.”

    The same as you asked of JPat…. Cite your sources. Where are the names of the men and women on this committee? When was this committee assembled? Has this “committee” always been present at IU? How do you get a scholarship at IU if you had bad habits to begin with? Why not put them before the committee during the recruiting process before running them through the muck?

    Did he just develop bad habits or were they already present at Broad Ripple when then they were recruiting him? Surely some of his high school teachers had to know he was a big risk. Couldn’t we have saved the need for a crucifixion? Was he told he was a borderline case and his status would be determined two weeks before official enrollment in the fall term? Can’t bad habits be corrected during a probationary period? Didn’t Knight do something similar for Jay Edwards? And I’m sure there are many like Jay Edwards that we never hear of. Did Knight push everyone out of IU because of academic issues? Of course not…But there’s always a righteous answer when we’re talking about our infallible coaches we’ll find every means to defend(while calling the kids..loafers…flunkies…druggies…dummies) within our perfect and protected cultures of bigotry.

    Not buying it. The only pertinent fact: We were over-signed and someone had to go. Maybe he just didn’t want to sign up for Marlin’s Bible class held on Tuesday evenings because it would interfere with the needed studying time to make up for lost time a horrible mistake in recruiting a kid unprepared.

  48. Don’t be a smart ___. No, no insiders at IU except in this one situation and it does come from someone informed on the Patterson issue specifically. Everything this individual told me was supported by statements that CTC made publicly. It’s a committee of faculty put together to monitor ‘special cases’ that regularly vet the would-be not-otherwise admissible student’s progress in a special program to try to make him admissible. More than the actual grades they look at his habits and his acceptance of the responsibility for himself. This ‘special opportunity’, the effort and time that is given by the faculty and staff members are trying to do exactly what you rage about…give prospective conditioned admission who have had (for whatever reasons) a lack of opportunity, a chance. The way you argue it HfH seems to be that those students are ‘owed’ not only admission but a degree (one could argue). No…not so…that would be a racist reaction since it would give out a message that does not credit them with the capacity for intellect and the values to discipline themselves. On balance Patterson failed Patterson and his statements and reaction seem nto acknowledge that…a monumental step forward if he does something about it.

    In regards to the players from Chicago, I was personally in a position to know. That’s why their recruitment by IU stunned me. I had not realized our standards had been lowered to that extent. They were not only an outcome but participants in outcomes that make some areas of Chicago a difficult place for families.

    And, when you disagree, there is no need to become so aggressive and offensive…sometimes you go beyond beyond.

  49. Where’s the committee for the sons and daughters of huge donors that buy their “elite” offspring a way in?

    Cite your sources..You crucified JPat for his one inside source. Maybe your source is just as much a closet scoundrel. And your crap aimed at Sampson’s players paints something far more hideous than you are now attempting, cowardly, to paint on me.

    Big sh*tin’ do party…You give one kid a chance where he hasn’t completely earned it yet. How many chances did Bob Knight get? Heaven forbid a young man get a couple extra shots at getting his sh*t together.

    Cite your sources or shut up. There is one pertinent fact: We were over-signed one scholarship offer and someone had to go. Nothing else is kosher after that treating kids like numbers…numbers that don’t add up. Where is the voice of apology? Where is someone saying, I f___ed up? Under-recruit and quit making up every excuse in the book, every year, for a reason to shove someone out that has done nothing but served Indiana with honor(e.g. Matt Roth). They’re already hinting of sending Mo Creek on his merry(marry?) way..”Why on earth would a kid want to stay when he has a family? Is he ready to graduate? Can he go somewhere where he’ll get more playing time..” Blah…blah…blah. All most of you sound like to me is a committee of excuses. Better than honoring your word …Maybe just do the right thing. Put your damn committee away and stop protecting your money and your holier-than-thou bullcrap.

    Your not protecting a kid from anything but your fears of being wrong in placing all your round pegs into round holes. Predetermination…Public trials of reputations where I hear no defense the accused. There is nothing more rooted in racism and injustice. Cite your sources. Cite the accusers. Own up and apologize for putting a kid on public trial because you don’t know how to add. How do you get into college if can’t do basic math?

  50. [You’re] not protecting…

    Patterson deserves the benefit of the doubt. Do you know why he deserves the benefit? Because more than one kid has been shoved out the door before him due to these over-sign predicaments(Matt Roth..Bobby Capobianco). That’s one too many for my measure of credibility any committee can attempt to sell me.

    And now Mo Creek or Austin Etherington wait in the wings…or another verbal commit we covered our ass with that we’ll later label as a slacker..Somehow we just didn’t know he was a slacker when sitting down with high school teachers, parents, coaches, etc. But when the numbers don’t add up…? Watch your back because the hatchet is coming and people are speaking for you..”He doesn’t need his scholarship..He’s married..He has his degree…He simply should leave because he’ll see no playing time anyway..Whispers..He did some weed. He skipped some classes..He doesn’t believe in Christ.”

    Soon you’ll turn Bloomington into Salem…Soon you’ve made nothing but ropes and destroyed all hopes in the backroom whispers and the silence of those you’ve put on public trial.

  51. Your confused Harvard, the protection and favoritism of admission of the children of heavy donors, heavy hitters and other clouted individuals was at the U. of Illinois where they had to wipe out half the administration including the President for exactly that reason. (About two years ago).

    From my experience, I don’t think that happens at Indiana. My oldest grandson applied and his application was treated like everyone else’s. You’ll be relieved, he did not accept admission to IU because another university offered more scholarship support. As an out-of-stater the cost would also have been higher at IU since he would have had to pay out-of-state tuition. So, we passed.

    And, yes I am suggesting something quite evil for the people of Englewood, Bronzeville, Kenwood, the westside in some of the activities that involved some of those ‘poor misunderstood kids”. I don’t know if their activities continued in Bloomington but I suspect they may have and that it was behind the ‘clear out’ job done by Coach Dan Dakich during his interim period (probably costing him a chance of getting the job) and by Tom Crean when he got there. It’s all in the record Harvard, your own experiences (from what you’ve written) clouds your judgment.

    As to Patterson, he got the benefit of the doubt and blew that too. People looked for reason to admit him. Worse, it wasn’t even close or they would have. As I said before was supported and confirmed by statements made by CTC publicly and reported here that made references to Patterson not meeting his promised obligation to merit admission. You have shown a remarkable ability to search through Scoop and other stories in the HT. Do so and re-read. As to my telling you the name of a source (don’t forget, I was a long time investigative journalist), I’d be crazy…it would be like telling a member of Congress or staff. Try to not forget, I have been very public about my feelings on over-signing and, even, over-offering.

    As to what you deem the comparison with JPat. I called no one a ‘drunk; made no suggestions or painted anyone with ‘evil’ outbursts; of intentionally ‘hurting’ players out of self interest, profit or whims; and never, never hinted or gossiped about ‘bad character’. I intensely dislike gossip and rumors, they destroy people and families…I’ll leave that to the sewer, CNN and the portable toilet area in some blogs. What information I have (regarding the Chicago players) is first hand, direct and a matter of record.

    But then, I think you knew that already…you just woke up in ‘that kind of a mood’ this morning and felt like busting b____ and I’m a good target; as a friend, I’m reluctant to whack you back.

    I can understand some of your anger, given that you have not been secretive about your bad experiences and ‘betrayals’. But you have to, at some point, learn to separate friends who may disagree on specific issues and remain friends from people who are really after you.

    It seems more and more its becoming The Harvard Way.

  52. Harvard, non-revenue sports would most certainly drive you crazy.

    What those kids get is totally dependent upon last year’s performance and next year’s projections. And coaches’ whims. If you didn’t produce as hoped in the past season or don’t fit into next season’s plans, you get nothing.


    If you can’t pay for classes without that financial aid…well…watch that door on the way out.

    Sometimes, if you had a really great year last year…well, you’re not getting anything because we’ve decided to put our scholarship money in a different basket.

    I’ve told our stories in the past but, suffice it to say, in non revenue sports there is no allegiance when it comes to scholarship money. Even performance doesn’t guarantee financial aid.

    Basketball and football are downright devotees of Mother Theresa in comparison.

  53. I don’t think all of Sampson’s players were “evil,” Tsao. I think the painting of all of his recruits with the same brush is grossly unfair.

    I don’t necessarily believe everything I read filtered through sports administrations. Heaven forbid that’s such a poor quality I hold because I’ll be damned I believed every word when Penn State was selling itself as the cleanest program on the planet for the past 20 years. Only man I could imagine more untouchable than Joe Paterno would be Tom Crean….throw in Bobby Knight. He was pretty untouchable in his prime.

    I’m amazed that you can paint accusations with the same wide brush that painted with praise a different day. You’ve painted everything that rubbed shoulders with Sampson with evil in the same manner all was painted with sanctity at Penn State. I am the person that should stick my head in the sand for having doubts the extremes any program will take to protect its multi-million dollar sports machines?

    There is nothing more hideous in accusations than to not let individuals have their own right to be judged as such. It’s wrong to use Sampson’s name to throw hate at teenagers that were doing hardly anything more in terms of “class slacking” or experimentation illegal substances in college than our current Commander-in-Chief. People can get lost. People can change. Who are you to condemn them for a lifetime based on an association to a basketball coach? They have parents. They have brothers and sisters that love them and believe in them.

    I’ll not forget watching Eli Holeman’s parents hugging their son two years ago after Detroit Mercy won the Horizon League championship. Is it wrong that it made me feel good? Is it wrong I saw it as something more spiritual than a Twitter entry quoting the Bible or Joyce Meyer? …or talks of decimation and ashes…and “cancers” and Dan Dakich sermons on the radio about culture? Is it so horrible it brought some happiness to me to see a kid that was painted as such a teenage monster hugging his proud father?

    Maybe Tom Crean isn’t the slick opportunist and Tartuffe salesman I often portray him to be…Maybe you could find somewhere in your hard heart to not paint all that is evil because it followed Kelvin Sampson to Bloomington. Fair?

    Or is it simply the Tsao Way with no second chances in life and no gray? As I said, how many second chances did Bobby Knight receive? Do I think he’s evil? Do I call you a Knight-worshiper of an evil and bitter man(00:10 mark)?

  54. Harvard- Re: SageTake-Post#70
    Actually, reread my post; I was referring to the Chicago kids, no one else. I didn’t know all that much about Eric Gordon (other than he was a great player and the issue with Illinois), even less about Eli Holman. I don’t brush, but I know the paint in the bucket.

    I did know about the Chicago players and their stories, their neighborhoods, their ‘friends’, their gangs, their schools, their coaches (part of the problem),the terrorized neighborhood, the basketball court the little kids were no longer to play on because it was used for ‘business’ by GDs. Knew their streets…had ‘covered’ (reported) on little girls caught up in gang drive by’s, the two brothers who disappeared and were found in a sewer pipe after CPD said they were searching for them (two other 12-14 year olds had ‘executed’ them ‘on commission’ to keep them from talking); the Cabrini kid who was shot from the 15th. floor of a high rise (Division Street) on his way to his elementary school two blocks away while he was holding his mother’s hand…the 70-year-old guy with the back of his head blown away because they wanted his shoes.

    Give them a chance? Yeah…a chance to breath deep!

  55. H4H,

    If I am not the #1 proponent for RP to have been on the IU roster on this blog then I am at least a frighteningly close 1A. I have enjoyed energy filled intensity on D long before the arrival of RMK’s man to man and the play of the terrific defender Bobby Wilkerson and I say without any reservation Patterson was not pushed but for any reason other than academic. His fault totally and it is a damn shame but shame he earned. You will not convince anyone any different because you are wrong.

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