1. Pros: 1) Vic being Vic – Andy Katz game him a shout out on Twitter 2) in crunch time, Sheehey always steps up 3) Watford’s motor was on today 4) team didn’t go soft with the “no blood, no foul” B1G road team officiating

    Cons: 1) in game coaching was suspect – your zone has them shooting 90% so why do you keep playing it? 2) substitution patterns were ridiculous 3) Freshman reminded us why they are Freshman – Yogi melted down again with late turnovers and missed free throws, Jeremy & Hanner were incredibly nervous 4) Hulls should not have been let out of the locker room at halftime – his rushed shots made his awful defense look good.

    Bottom line: Elite teams blow out bad shooting, unathletic teams like Iowa no matter where the game is played. We better get Jeremy & Hanner meaningful minutes vs. Penn State because we need them if we want to do anything special in the B1G.

  2. OK, give me a second opinion here. I thought the officiating was just brutal but I’m admittedly biased. Opinions?

    Since Jordy wasn’t hitting anything it kinda made me look at the rest of his game. I thought he was pretty effective all around.

    Vic is as good as anyone I’ve watched this year game in, game out. Cody came through when he had to, scored more than his average. The fact that we all expect more says a lot about the upside.

    Were they really getting back that quickly or were we just not pushing the ball as quickly up the floor as we have been?

    Happy New Year, guys.

  3. Biggest defensive play of the game…? Watford sealing off an Iowa guard coming off a pick just before the 5:00 mark of the second half. Forced a turnover and killed Iowa’s pendulum of momentum during a critical point their strong comeback in the game. I haven’t looked at the stats, but Watford seemed to have very good positioning on the boards and pulled a good share of defensive rebounds down.

    And Cody….? He SUCKS. He really should be cut from the team.

  4. Hullsdini! He’ll be back.

    If we would have had Matt Roth available as reinforcement on the perimeter(e.g. @ Penn State last year), we would have won by twenty.

  5. A Big Ten road win is to be cherished. Plus, we should crush Penn St., as Hulls overcomes today’s odds by shooting about 75% there. He won’t go 0 – 10 ever….again. Never. I’ll take 2-0 to start the Big Ten season on the road ANY year no matter who we play….including Rutgers, Maryland, Penn St., Northwestern, etc…. We beat an 11-2 team which beat us last year. Take it, learn, get better, and move on men.

    Cody played well today & so did Watford, Olidipo and Sheehey.

    We overcame suspect refereeing, such as White holding Olidipo from behind on the putback Zeller airball and the phantom foul on Marble on the 3. Year after after the Big Ten refs aspire to recreate the NBA patheticness.

    Good, solid win.

  6. Did I read Cody didn’t see the ball in the second half for about 8 minutes?

    Dude needs to grow some stones and demand it if they aren’t passing it to him.

    All I keep reading is “he’s a match-up nightmare” yet goes 8 minutes without getting a look.

  7. Didn’t Jordy get zero points in a game before?

    So, you can’t say “never again.”

    You “smart” fans need to quit crying about the refs so much.

  8. Watford and Zeller drive a fan crazy for the same reason – they don’t play to their potential. If Watford played with the passion he had today his entire career, he’d be an IU legend by now. Zeller scores 16 pts today by essentially floating around the court. Imagine his numbers if he played with a purpose and played big instead of small.

    We aren’t frustrated with them because they suck, we are frustrated with them because they have amazing talent that isn’t being utilized to its fullest. That’s why we and now the nation loves Vic so much.

  9. I thought the officiating was normal for a B1G road team. Remember this game when you look at our home free throw advantage in upcoming B1G games. I was pleasantly surprised that the guys understood this is how it goes in the B1G on the road and didn’t turn into mental mush.

  10. Cut the crap. This will rarely be a team anyone will dominate. There is far too much depth and rotation in the lineup.

    Hulls had 6 assists in 22 minutes today and all the bashers can talk about is the fact he proves himself human by not abusing the hell out of the center of the basket once every twenty games.

    Zeller is diving all over the floor for loose balls…To say the kid doesn’t have “stones” is completely foolhardy.

  11. Iowa was getting away with a ton of cheap shoves(especially during their possessions). The flop by the Iowa player on the 3-pointer that Oladipo was called for a foul was beyond bad officiating. Stevie Wonder would have called it correctly as a flop instead of foul by sensing the overpowering cold hush in the sheepish guilt of the Carver-Hawkeye air.

  12. Great post, Aruss.

    What the FAKE fans don’t get is that they do the team no favors, and actually hurt them, by always blowing sunshine up their butts when they play like crap.

    Most players, in all sports, have said for decades: “I love it when people tell me I can’t do something.”

    So, just showering them with praise even when they are horrible is just stupid.

    And Zeller’s job isn’t to “dive for loose balls all over the court.” We’ve been told 25,098,587 times “he’s the best center in college basketball and he’s a matchup nightmare.”

    That means demanding the ball inside and kicking their butts.

    Not going 8 minutes without getting a look.

    I saw Will make a 3 and, unless they didn’t show it, not point at his head and, even better, not prance around like Jessica Alba asked him to the prom.

    So, that’s good…….

  13. Crying about refs all the time = reserved for those who nothing about the game and think all of our players should be put on Mount Rushmore

  14. When we play Iowa in early March, it will be a 15 point margin of victory, or more. Has Hulls ever gone 0 for anything, ever, in his entire life? I can’t remember him ever doing an 0-for. It was an anomaly. If he simply hits three shots, it’s a comfortable victory.

    This was a good win because it will reinforce everything the coaches have been telling these guys about Big Ten road games, the officiating while on the road, etc. They’ve now heard it and experienced it, so they will be that much better in dealing with it from now on in.

  15. Road wins are special because the environment is tough to overcome and almost always produces questionable calls. This 1 was even tougher with JH’s shooting eye off all night. 19 & 10 good #’s for CZ. Did anyone notice Iowa’s Freshman PG had the most minutes for the game. They are thin there + he is pretty damn good.

  16. Clarion-

    That freshman point guard on Iowa was pretty damn good. When Marble has his normal shooting night they’ll be tough to beat on their home court.

    Did you catch Dakich’s comments about the IU vs. UK series? Normally not a huge fan of Dakich, but I thought he was spot on – going as far as saying the presidents of the respective schools needed to step in, go over the heads/selfish egos of the coaches and ADs, and give the fans back the storied rivalry they deserve.

  17. HC,
    Are you trying to claim that a double double while scoring above his average on the road is somehow acceptable? Balderdash, I say. Let’s see, Jordy had 6 assists, 2 steals, 3 rebounds, and 0 turnovers in 22 minutes. Who exactly, was it that was abusing his defense? I believe Iowa’s guards shot something like 25% from the field.

    My gosh, the screamers rant is just silly at this point. Really boring schtick. I thought that show got cancelled. These must be reruns.

    They all looked terrible even though they won and they probably will lose every game on the road and no on knows what they are talking about if they don’t bad mouth every player on the team.

    Cut and paste for next game.

    Same stuff, different day.

  18. Chet – it wasn’t your bias… That was as one-sided as refereeing gets. I have seen plenty of poorly reffed games, but this one was only poorly reffed for IU. Iowa had the benefit of all kinds of ticky tack fouls, and other gifts like the jump ball time out… Meanwhile IU couldn’t buy a call and had several fairly easy, obvious ones go the other way.

    I also thought this was Crean’s worst coaching performance to date. Sorry, but nothing he did worked, and he kept going to things that were working the worst.

    If it weren’t for Dipo and Sheehey hustling and getting freelance offense this would have been a terrible loss. Hulls, Watford, and Zeller were all fine, but it was nice to hear Dipo finally getting the respect he deserves.

    But… Glad we got a tough conference road win against a good team. One step closer to bragging rights.

  19. Oh yeah… And the phantom foul on the Marble 3-ptr… Meanwhile Dipo gets wrapped up on the airball put back and cant get a call.

    Those refs tried as hard as they could all day to give that game to Iowa. I wouldn’t be surprised when I go back to watch tape that I see them blowing in Hulls’ ear on all his shots…

  20. Random Disjointed Thoughts:

    █ Not that it matters, but I think I mentioned the “phantom foul” in post #11.

    Zeller really stroking it nicely from the foul line..Very important. Lots of bigs can’t shoot worth a crap from the stripe.

    █ Remy Remix: Even though Remy isn’t scoring many points, it’s obvious Crean is beginning to feel his importance on the floor. Soon it’s all going to come together for Remy and he’ll be another versatile threat that opponents can’t take for granted.

    █ Why we’ll be better on the road? Yogi is the true difference-maker. Freshman of the Year? I never thought he would be this good at this early stage in his college game. His poise and penetration be our poison to equal any opponent’s attempts to control the pace.

    █ Old Weapons becoming more weapons. Hopefully Elston can begin to come around to the player that was growing into his true potential last season.

    █ Roadblocks to Early Chemistry & Rankings Perceptions: Considering the games Perea had to sit out, the injury to Elston, the illness that set Cody back for 2-3 weeks, and the recent sidelining of Hollowell, it’s a rather weak theory to claim this team was overrated.

    █ Absences: Let’s also not forget that many of the expectations leading into a preseason #1 ranking were based on Perea getting early action to develop and Patterson as part of the team(both adding substantial boards, athleticism, depth, and very intense defensive elements provided on the interior and perimeter).

    █ Natural Born Scorers/Glory, Guts, & Gumption: I do agree with Laffy concerning Hulls scoring focus. Good shooters always shoot themselves out of slumps. The worst thing Hulls could do is become gun-shy…and he won’t. Soon he’ll be Too Hot to Handle again…I do wish he would follow the example of Steve Nash and Justin Bieber… and get a haircut.

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  21. Happy New Year to you as well…

    My guess is Yogi doesn’t win B1G FOY… He is certainly behind Stauskas right now, and Harris is more important to his team.

    I’d say about 2% of the preseason expectations hinged on Perea and less than 1% had anything to do with Buss.

    It is great to see Cody getting his FT stroke back.

  22. Cody’s illness? Elston injury? Sidelining of Hollowell? Disagree on Buss…His perimeter and full court defensive tenacity(along with Oladipo) could have made a considerable difference against Butler.

    Anyway, did you catch Crean getting extremely vocal over the “phantom foul?”

  23. Harvard… While you are well versed on the defensive “veracity” of Buss, your average AP voter had never heard of him, and for those that had its not hard to venture that he was about 11th or 12th on the depth chart. Now of you want to make the argument that IU’s “incoming class” was part of the high expectations then fine… But most of that was Yogi.

    I don’t think the team was overrated Harvard. I agree that due to a myriad of reason, many of which you mentioned, we haven’t hit our stride yet. I believe we are the second best team in the country right now, and could easily be the best come March.

  24. Chet, Thanks for the heads-up, I just lost my mind for a minute(4 Heinekens on NYE)and I will refrain from all future posts of balderdash.

  25. The phantom foul was something. Vic wasn’t even close and the guy reaches out with his left hand and grabs Victor after the shot. How do you blow THAT call? Then the full body wrap up from behind on Victor’s put back, with no call. Amazing.

    Nobody has mentioned the early one, where Cody was run into and sent flying and they called it on Cody because his elbow was knocked into the air in the collision.

    I LOVE seeing Will come into the game. I’m always thinking ‘here we go’ when he hits the floor, so much energy. He has developed a sweet shooting stroke, as nice as any on the team IMHO.

    How about that block of a layup by Jeremy when Iowa was making a run? That was a big a play as there was in the game.

    A win on the road at Iowa, I’ll take it however it comes.

  26. Brutal loss due to officials of the night. The Western Carolina University Catamounts were playing Liberty University. WCU leads 62-61 and the are in bounding the ball with 5 seconds remaining. The player on the baseline shouts out the in bounds play, “Catamount”.

    The official misunderstands and thinks the player yelled “Time out”.

    WCU had no time outs remaining. The official calls a technical foul and awards Liberty 2 free throws even though the WCU coach shows him his clipboard with “Catamount” plainly written above a diagram (visible on the television close up).

    Liberty wins 63-62.

    To his credit the WCU coach takes the high road and said it shouldn’t have come down to the final play, rebounds, yada, yada.

  27. Chet – yeah there were so many bad and questionable calls that it would take an entire forum to chronicle them… That foul on Zeller though was ridiculous. 99 times out of 100 that call goes the other way. But no biggie, it was only Cody’s second foul, and there was only over 8 minutes to go in the first half. That call doesn’t have any further reaching implications… Like say, having to sit Cody for a long stretch heading into half time, or tempering what mediocre aggression Zeller IS playing with right now.

    On a different note, one of the really fun things about this team is the diversity of things that players do well:

    – Zeller is probably the best running big man in the nation, and a top 3 center
    – Hulls is one of the top 5 shooters in the nation
    – Dipo IS THE MOST disruptive defender/player in the entire country
    – Yogi is one of the quickest guards in the country, and top 3 freshman PG
    – Will is one of the top 3 6th men in the country, and a top 5 mid-range shooter
    – Watford is one of the top 5 most unpredictable players in the country…

    That is a lot of individual superlatives!

  28. I really like how, a couple times every game, the back court of the opposition with be looking right at Vic and STILL make the cross court pass thinking there is NO WAY he could possibly be quick enough to get to it. Then he’s off to the races.

  29. Geoff-

    Don’t know who you are mocking, but I never used “veracity” in any of my posts.

    I don’t get into depth charts..My views on Buss were from watching clips of his high school games. There were also many accounts on Scoop by those that watched him in person(Clarion?) that communicated he could make an immediate impact.

    How many believed Remy could make the impact, rise up to the challenges when thrown into a bigger role, last season? I think I have a pretty decent understanding of where are strengths and weaknesses are on this team. Patterson was not in the class of a raw A-Hope player. He had sound fundamentals and that entire “Movement” class had a lot to do with the national perceptions of a very good team becoming even stronger.

    Based on those expectations, you are correct(and it is exactly the point I was making), we were not necessarily overrated as some have alluded. There has been a considerable amount of disruption in terms of players not being available in the lineup during the first two months of the season that were expected to be part of the continued ascent. We still have the most important components healthy, but the depth reduction and temporary derailed development of some of our younger talent, and the untimely setback for Elston, has made our bench far less impacting than original expectations.

    Not sure where we really belong in the current national rankings. Don’t really care. I’m not that concerned if we even fall out of the top 10 as a result some battles on the road against other strong BIG teams.

  30. Harvard – I was mocking a string of posts (that had nothing to do with you) from about 2 weeks ago when referencing veracity…

    I also believe Buss would have been a valuable piece. I’m just saying that we were pre-season #1 with or without Buss. The national expectations had NOTHING to do with Buss and VERY LITTLE to do with Perea. I just believe that your “absences” point in post #20 is 100% moot/false/irrelevant.

  31. Beg to differ…I think there was a ton of selling going on regarding how dominant Perea could be in the front court. The entire “Movement” class was touted as mutli-faceted in various complimentary talents and very athletic.

    Dustin never stopped blabbering about Perea’s “upside.”

    I do agree that Yogi was the key component in the “Movement.” He’ll be the true difference-maker going forward. A dynamic and poised point guard is vital to a deep run.

  32. Harvard – You’re standing way to close to the painting… You are confusing the passion, understanding, and scrutiny, of the IU fan base with the national perspective.

    IU fans did not vote the Hoosiers pre-season #1. That was the media, most of whom thought Verdell Jones was our starting PG last year. They don’t have a clue compared to anyone on this blog (except Debbie).

    Go back and read the ESPN the Mag College Basketball Preview issue, or the Sports Illustrated issue or any other publication touting IU as the top dogs. You won’t find a single mention of Ron Patterson, and I doubt you’ll find anything about HMP.

    The AP and the coaches poll did not factor in Ron Patterson one iota, which is why our ranking was still nearly unanimous after Buss left the program and after Perea and Jurkin got suspended.

    If you want to make points about how Hoosier Scoopers feel about the team then don’t use the notion of “Preseason #1″… Those expectations were set by folks who are pretty sure Remy Abell is one of the singers in One Direction.

  33. Beg to differ….I think the “Movement” was certainly factored into the high expectations….and overblown with hype like all pundits place on expectations the so-called, very subjective, top recruiting classes.

    And there were plenty on this blog with the “passion, understanding, and scrutiny, of the IU fan base” that were forecasting Hollowell, Patterson, and Perea to make upperclassman like a “lazy” Watford, and a “less than dynamic force” Elston, a “far more than too often” defensively abused Hulls, and an “poor man’s Quinn Buckner” non-highlight reel Remy, to instantly become less relevant once the cavalry came to town.

    If you’re reading too much ESPN, you’re far worse off than standing too close to the painting…You’re part of a bland palette of uninspiring water colors used in a paint-by-number starter set.

  34. All I’m saying Harvard… And I’m not sure why you can’t understand it… Is that IU fans didn’t annoint this team Preseason #1. The pundits and establishment and Seth Davis and the rest of your favorites did. And those people have no clue about Buss and Perea.

    If you want to talk about expectations due to a preseason #1 ranking that is the group who put us on that pedestal… And it was based on Zeller, our top 6 players coming back, Yogi, and then way in the back of the bus, never mentioned anywhere outside of Hoosier blogs, the rest of the Movement.

    Now if you want to restate your point and say that IU fans’ expectations were even higher because of Buss and Perea, well I’ll accept that a little… But the VAST MAJORITY of IU fans were not counting on Ron Patterson to be much of a factor this year. And as Perea’s stock slid throughout last year’s HS season, even expectations of his contributions were somewhat muted. I didn’t hear any wave of pessimism about IU’s chances after Buss went to Brewster, nor did I hear any chants of “maybe next year” when the A-Hope boys got suspended.

    Maybe your expectations of our success were rooted in Buss and Perea, but if that’s the case you were (as usual) in the very small minority.

  35. I’ve bit my tongue on the subject of Patterson for a while but people bringing him up like he’s was a Hoosier in this thread bothers me.

    I’m pretty sure the whole story about Patterson hasn’t been reported here or many places. His not being a Hoosier goes beyond a summer report card. We take pride in a big part of CTC’s rebuilding the program had to do with cleaning up the culture and what Patterson did this summer made it abundantly clear that he was not worthy of being a Hoosier. We are a 100% better team without him.

  36. And you don’t think the Establishment’s expectations drive much of the fan’s expectations?

    We had a national article produced by ESPN creating controversy concerning relationships between AAU and A-Hope connections. I’m pretty confident much of that concocted bad publicity was produced because their was an attempt by the same Establishment that creates the hype around the rankings to keep what many believed to be a very strong front court potential in Perea off our roster. It worked for nine games.

    And quit the condescension act with the “not sure why you can’t understand it” crap…It’s not becoming and tolerant of varied opinions, all worthy of an argument, the many variables regarding fan’s expectations and rankings(whether rooted in one thoroughly prententious b-ball know-it-all or the easily swayed masses influenced by the perceptions/biases of the national media)finding an equilibrium approaching reality.

    Schmoozing with Keith Smart and bumping into Crean at a Pipeline party doesn’t allow you to claim every basketball opinion unworthy unless it falls from your tongue.

  37. Is this more “culture and the cross” BS? Bite right through your thick tongue for all I care. You don’t slander a kid without his ability to represent and defend himself.

    The “facts” were fed to us on a sanctimonious silver spoon all in the backdrop a fully visible and undeniable scholarship crunch that was not washing itself out until only days before rosters had to be officially set.

    Patterson is a very good basketball player and I’ll gladly cut-and-paste the numerous regulars of Scoop(knowledgeable and educated followers like Hoosier Clarion) that were accelerating our hopes and feeding us a heavy line of hype his providing immediate impact. He wouldn’t get an offer from Syracuse if he wasn’t a legit talent.

  38. Patterson is a very good basketball player who made an amazingly, stupid mistake that would have set our program back to 2008 if we had looked the other way and kept him as a student-athlete. I’ll give him the benefit of the doubt and blame it on immaturity but there is no way in hell he was a Hoosier. He may have the athleticism of an Oladipo but he doesn’t have his heart.

    HH is right. He’s a good fit for Syracuse.

  39. Whatever Harvard… I’m not going to argue all night with you. Keith has nothing to do with it, but if you want I’ll call him and get his opinion…

    It’s as simple as this: I agree with much of what you said in post #20, however saying that much of people’s expectations for this team had to do with Buss and Perea is simply not true. They had nothing to do with the team getting the #1 ranking and no fans were jumping off the bandwagon when their fates took them in various directions.

  40. Why does everyone seem to have a huge grudge against Syracuse? You live on the east coast, Geoff…Can you explain?

    Back to rankings..My main thrust was to open up for debate and counter many of the claims the Hoosiers not playing/living up to a #1 team(both preseason and inconsistent performances up until the Butler loss. Whether intentional or unintentional, you somewhat twisted that focus of why I thought it was unfair to claim we are “overrated” and thoroughly concentrated on one of my lines centering around the absences(Patterson entirely and Perea due to the NCAA’s 9 game suspension)…There’s somewhat overlapping discussions going on here: The debate pertaining to a substantial absence/removal from our lineup two main recruits involved in the “Movement”(In hindsight, could you even label it as a “Movement” with Patterson and Perea out of the mix?) effecting perspectives on an appropriate preseason ranking(throughout late spring and summer)and the debate centered around playing like a #1 team once the season got into full swing.

    Roadblocks to Early Chemistry & Rankings Perceptions: Considering the games Perea had to sit out, the injury to Elston, the illness that set Cody back for 2-3 weeks, and the recent sidelining of Hollowell, it’s a rather weak theory to claim this team was overrated.

    The main thrust of my post #20 was to counter much of the criticism surrounding “soft front courts” and a team that shouldn’t have been “showered with praise” because they weren’t playing or looking like a #1 team. How is that fair when a team is without 4/5 of the “Movement” during most of our pre-Big 10 season? How can you make those claims when Elston has been sidelined, Perea and Jurkin were totally unavailable, Hollowell sat out three games, and there is no Ron Patterson to offer added depth during any of the above disruptions? We have our starters, Remy, and Sheehey, but there is no denying the team has been fractured from its full depth and potential until knocked off the #1 pedestal against Butler. It’s not an excuse. It’s the reality. Perea, Hollowell, and Elston could have been much more prepared and closer to helping the team by hitting their individual “strides” going into the BIG season without the suspensions, investigations, and injury respectively. And Patterson, at minimum, would have added substantial energy and defensive tenacity during those bumps in the road when others on the roster were experiencing setbacks.

    To say we’re “overrated” when the team is not totally whole in terms of depth and bench and the many lost practices involving players that can challenge your starters during your preparation for each opponent is ludicrous. We weren’t initially overrated because the pundits put too much praise on Cody… or refused to see how horrible Hulls defends… or didn’t anticipate how truly soft our front court. We haven’t had ALL of our front court..We haven’t seen Perea and Elston catch their stride to shore up our front court ..We haven’t had Hollowell to add another facet off the bench. And we didn’t have an in-your-gut defender and better than average scorer in Patterson that could have been available to smooth over many of the “softness” and “depth” issues. It’s not excuses for poor play and bad outings. But you can’t honestly evaluate this team as the same complete and healthy force while brushing over the many setbacks involving everyone in the “Movement” except for Yogi. TALK ABOUT BEING TOO CLOSE TO THE DAMN PAINTING! You can’t ignore how well Elston was playing last year(what he can offer in boards and perimeter shooting). You can’t sweep all those temporary setbacks(and one debatable permanent setback the loss of Patterson) and use it all as more ammunition to attack the rest of the team not playing up to an undeserved ranking.

    Do you get it now? What can having a guy like Patterson defending Watford in practice provide to the total work of art? Oladipo, your personal Pipeline hero, can’t defend everyone in practice. What goes on outside of the 40 minutes of each game, the “softness” vs. “toughness” and character of a team developing a personality during in the 99/100 their court time working together/PRACTICING together with a full and healthy and available roster gaining a full array of game-time and non game-time minutes, is likely FAR MORE INTEGRAL to playing up to your full perceived potential, REALIZING THE PERCEIVED RANKINGS(whether #1, #5. or #25), than anything that ever meets the eyes of the average novice fan/blogger/clueless Establishment blowhard storyteller merely microscopically examining every fart and frolic a hyped “Preseason Player of the Year” that appears softer than the Snuggles Downey bear for a game or two in the infancy his season. Get it? Do you get it now, smartypants?

  41. And we haven’t even touched on coaching. Is that not part of the painting?

    If you are going to pursue an argument of a team not living up to its ranking, can’t substandard coaching(on the practice court and during games)play into a team slipping from its pure potential in terms of simple raw talent available? Do we not have the right personality wearing the ties to provide the stronger backbone the collective unit? How much does coaching go into decisions on where to place a team in the national polls? Could Keith Smart more smartly manage and instill a personality that could live up to the mental toughness desired some are claiming absent from this very talented squad?

    Whether or not I believe there is no finer coach in the land than Crean, does not devoid from discussion a coach’s influence on a talented team living up to its potential. Would Knight allow a “soft” player to get 25 minutes per game? What would be his medicine for a Cody that got abused by Butler’s front line?
    Would Cody even take on the challenge in signing a commitment letter to play for a demanding tyrant as a head coach of the Indiana Hoosiers? Maybe Christianity is “soft.”

  42. Maybe I want Tom Crean to drive by that dumb-a$$ driving his pansy Honda on snow-covered roads at midnight. And if Cody slips into a “softness” ditch…maybe kick him down the damn ditch a bit further, let him feel the harsh cold his foolish taking for granted the warm praises he soaked up from Seth & Co. while under his Downey-infused blankie at home, and find out what the hell he’s made of. Sit his butt for a half…Let him experience true redemption in the pure intent of becoming the best one can make of gifts God bestowed upon you. Get yourself out of the damn ditch and you’ll stay there with your own ignorance to keep you company.

  43. correction: Get yourself out of the damn ditch [or] you’ll stay there with your own ignorance to keep you company.

    How ’bout some ‘random acts of toughness and aloofness’ for the “Player of the Year” prima donna going down the unpredictable slippery roads of greatness like a wimpy Honda Civic instead of Cadillac Escalade? Make him feel like a homeless teenager living in the backseat a Chevy Impala on the cold gang-ridden streets of Chicago…You think you got ditches?

    Life’s a ditch and then you die. Man up before someone nails you to a cross.

  44. I remember a scenario just like that. RMK had decided he needed to toughen up a skilled big man, Jason Collier. He went on to have an outstanding career…at Georgia Tech.

  45. Hoosier Clarion
    Thursday, November 10, 2011 – 12:01 PM UTC

    RP’s “D” @ IU = SHOWTIME

    Wednesday, November 9, 2011 – 6:46 PM UTC

    Very glad to have The Buss on the team. He brings a physical presence on defense this team desperately needs. And he has a year to really work on the offense so I would expect his game to be more complete by the time he suits up for IU. Congrats to Ron and his family. Congrats to Coach Crean and his staff for a tremendous class.

    Wednesday, November 9, 2011 – 6:43 PM UTC

    Welcome RP to the best basketball program in the nation. May you and the movement have great success at Indiana University. And to Ron’s parents, thank you for raising a fine young man.

    This was a couple posts from one thread. Do you want 50 more examples from the family of regular Scoop bloggers that were convinced Patterson was a very important part of the “Movement?”

    And where are those old posters of Hoosier Scoop that praised Ron’s parents for “raising a fine young man?” Where are those that loved his mom’s attitude and her great hair? Are they now the same hypocrites slandering his name while hiding behind new screen names?

    And if the Establishment could dig for months to find a needle of unscrupulousness in a haystack of good in the A-Hope program…sift through hours of footage of Jordy Hulls in determining he’s the worst defender in all of college basketball, then surely they must not have been completely clueless that a kid soon to play for Syracuse could arguably be the best freshman defender in the nation when he was originally slated to be part of one of the best recruiting classes a prominent program from Indiana steeped in basketball tradition. This wasn’t Etherington we were talking about. Two A-Hope projects, Etherington, Hollowell, Patterson, and Yogi. The last three names from that list that came as part of the “Movement” were the “ready to ball at the Big 10 level speed/athleticism” recruits. Hollowell has already been labeled as a guy that looks cut from the mold of a Watford(meaning not very intense and often lacking a persistent hungry focus). So that leaves us with Yogi and Patterson as the two most intense and athletic non-projects. If the Establishment only recognized the 50% as 2% the strength of that incoming class, then the entire lot of ESPN and SI journalists should work for Congress.

  46. Chet- You’re correct. And Knight also got pretty damn tough with a kid named Landon Turner that made the choice to stay.

    Are there coaches that can instill toughness without being tyrants? Can they arrive at IU “soft” and leave with hunger and spines of steel?

    Personally, I don’t think Cody is soft. Watford has never been a leaper(half the time he barely gets enough above the rim to dunk), Perea and Jurkin were sidelined for 9 games, Elston has been injured…Hollowell was out for three games. There was no Tom Pritchard to bang opponents bigs when Cody was resting or nursing a couple fouls.

    Most of the inside play has been solely put on the shoulders of Cody(and lets not forget that he was slowed down by a stiff illness during a 2-3 week stretch our non-conference schedule)..I had a chest infection a couple years ago that took me 4 months to get totally over. Try fighting a case of influenza(or even a serious cold)while hardly dialing back physical demands in playing D-1 college basketball.

  47. As far as the Collier situation his, rub with Knight was as much about his penchant for wanting to shoot from outside as much as it was not being tough.

  48. Has anyone noticed?No one has a good offensive game when oladipo guards them?The talk about Marble having an off game surprises me.Everyone gets shut down by oladipo.
    We have a number of players contributing in a variety of ways.Cody has a bad half,Hulls goes o for game and we still win.Why?Watford plays a strong game from start to finish.Yogi rises and pushes us through a tough stretch.And Victor carries all on his back.Honestly,we are reaching near potential offensively(not at Iowa).The championship caliber of this team will be decided by our defensive improvement.And despite our pathetic zone play in this game,we are getting there defensively.Statistically,it’s hard to improve on our offense,so all the talk about Cody demanding the ball,is not going to help us much as a team.

  49. Harvard… Good string of posts. I understand it in its proper context better now.

    Everyone hates Syracuse because:
    – they beat most people’s favorite teams
    – they steal top recruits from people’s favorite teams
    – they play zone almost exclusively
    – Boehiem’s wife is hotter than theirs

    Yes, coaching is, can, and should be part of the equation

    I love the “random acts of toughness” line… I think it would be hilarious to have a team videographer follow them around capturing those moments.

  50. Geoff–

    I beg to differ it was “only the national media who thought we were pre-season # 1.”

    Half of Peegs imploded because we didn’t get ALL of the votes. And each week Duke got more votes, they screamed even louder about the “lack of disrespect” and how those voters were “idiots.”

    Mark this day down…..I actually agree with HH. I do think Patterson factored into the # 1 ranking as the writers kept talking about how talented the class was….not just Yogi.

  51. Syracuse, like most ACC teams, usually gets NCAA seeds way above what they deserve (much like their ranking this year). They were majorly outplayed by a #16 last year and barely escaped with the help of favorable calls only to fall the next game.

    Boehiem must have gone to the Bobby Knight/Gene Keady school of charm and charisma, with a minor in whining. He’s good for an absolutely “whiny little jerk” comment every couple weeks during the season. I think he is the biggest reason everyone dislikes the team so much.

    As for his wife, well, Hugh Hefner (or a potato posing as Hugh Hefner) just remarried, too.

  52. That’s why I said a ‘minor’ in whining. He simply got the Knight/Keady charm and charisma.

    Just so nobody thinks I’m under the impression that Syracuse is in the ACC, I simply meant both get favorable seeds beyond what they deserve.

  53. Laffy… I never said that “only the natinal media thought we were pre-season #1″… I said that it wasn’t IU fans who voted them pre-season #1… We don’t have votes in the AP or coaches poll.

    Yes the class got props. But did our pre-season #1 ranking disappear when Buss was canned and ended up at Brewster? Nope… Did we lose our #1 ranking when the A-Hope boys got suspended? Nope… Because the ranking had very little, if anything, to do with those players.

    That is all I’m saying. There is nothing else to infer from those statements of fact.

    (Would you care to guess how many voters in the AP could tell you who Hanner Perea plays for or what position he plays… How many coaches in the coaches poll would know who Ron Patterson is if you asked them out of the blue without any context or clues? I’m guessing less than 50% on both accounts)

  54. We were blowing out cupcakes(for the most part)..I think we were getting the benefit of the doubt(despite some setbacks and hits to the incoming class), hanging onto the early established preseason #1 ranking as the seasoned progressed, until we would be legitimately questioned by a loss to a perceived weaker opponent. That transpired with Butler.

    The preseason ranking and holding on to that ranking had a considerable amount to do with the incoming athletes part of the “Movement”..These guys(Perea, Hollowell, Patterson, and Yogi) were to give us a big boost in terms of speed and athleticism..Not too mention all the hype we were hearing about Perea and Jurkin’s combined wingspan and the length it would add to our front court.

    In addition to the loss to Buter, the hits to the recruiting class, the fact we lost Patterson, have lost a considerable amount of time getting Perea and Hollowell up to speed, and were without Elston for nearly all of the early schedule, had a commutative effect to warrant a four spot drop in the polls.

    I don’t think the drop in the polls is simply because there was too much hype around Cody. That’s unfair and I also believe that even Establishment numskulls were looking beyond the returning players from last year’s Sweet 16 squad to base their original high expectations resulting in the #1 ranking.

    There is a completely alternative theory that I would gladly add when I have more time. Must get some sleep.

  55. I don’t disagree with any argument based on the collective, I just don’t buy that anyone outside of IU fans batted an eye when Buss and Perea had issues.

    If I could have a conversation with a voter in either the AP or coaches poll this is how I honestly believe it would go…

    Me: hey average voter. How are you today?

    Average Voter: okay, it’s a bit cold here in Establishment city. What’s up?

    Me: did you vote for IU as your preseason #1?

    AV: yep! They are a good team… Really turned things around!

    Me: why did you vote for them?

    AV: well, they have most of their team coming back and they went on a deep run in the tourney last year. Cody Zeller is the real deal, and maybe the best player in the country. They also have Watford, who hit that big shot against Kentucky. The Hulls kid can really shoot it, and those 2 wings bring a lot of energy. They also have a really good recruiting class coming in with a couple all-Americans. They are going to be tough to beat, and I’m not sure there are any “great” teams out there.

    Me: yeah I think the class was called The Movement…

    AV: yeah, sounds right. Crean has done a really good job getting talent back at IU.

    Me: any idea who is in The Movement?

    AV: well, I know that Yogi Ferrell is part of the class. There were some other very good players, but I can’t remember their names… I just know they were a very highly rated group.

    Me: does the name Hanner Mosquera-Perea ring a bell?

    AV: oh yeah… Isn’t that the kid who got suspended by the NCAA? Wasn’t there another one too?

    Me: yep, Peter Jurkin… A long 7-footer.

    AV: is that really his name?!

    Me: I know, kinda funny right? Anyway have you seen them play at all this season?

    AV: sure… Saw them live in NY at the Barclay Center. Great game against Georgetown. Also watched the North Carolina and Butler games on TV.

    Me: have you been impressed with the Ron Patterson kid?

    AV: who? Oh wait, he’s the guard that comes off the bench and wears the wrist guard thingy right?

    Me: nope, that’s Remy Abell… Patterson was part of The Movement…

    AV: doesn’t ring a bell… Has he been getting much run?

    Me: no it was a trick question… He didn’t even end up going to IU…

    AV: ok, weird question then…

    Me: so I guess he wasn’t the reason you voted for IU?

    AV: nope, can’t even remember hearing that name…

    Me: hey no biggie… You have a lot of teams to cover… Thanks for your time.

  56. I’ll just have to disagree the recruiting class had ” very little to do with our ranking” at the start of the season.

    I think the reason it didn’t go down after he left and the suspensions is most voters probably never saw the stories. If I didn’t read here or Peegs, I would have never known….especially about Patterson. How many voters were aware we were over-signed by 1? I doubt any of them.

    They did know, though, we had a top-rated class even if they didn’t know the names of them. Every article I saw said, “Returns most of the players and has a top-rated class making them the deepest team in the deepest team in the country.”

    Of course we’ll never know, but if we didn’t have a Top 10 class to go along with the returning players, I doubt we’d have received so many # 1 votes.

  57. My two cents. No. 1, without any part of the recruiting class, IU would still have been a top five team based on the fact that they returned all five top scorers, including an All-American. Considering what everybody else was losing, that was a heck of a resume in and of itself. If Indiana had added Ferrell and no one else, it would’ve still been a dead heat between IU and Louisville for No. 1 at worst. From that point forward, I’d say most voters would’ve ranked the recruits in the following order in terms of importance: Hollowell, Perea, Patterson, Jurkin. Now, I know what Patterson’s capable of better than the average voter because I’ve been watching him since 2010, but if you tell the average voter that IU lost the fourth-highest rated player in its top 5 recruiting class, it’s not going to cost them that many votes.
    As far as how much of a difference he could have made — I think everyone who saw him would agree with me here — that would’ve been entirely dependent on which Ron showed up. When Patterson’s head is on straight, he’s a slightly less bouncy Vic with longer arms and a better jumper, and that’s a heck of a force. When it isn’t, you’ve got a problem on your hands.

  58. Laffy… We aren’t disagreeing, because I never said that. I said Perea and Buss had very little to do with our ranking. There is a definite difference between talking about the pieces and talking about the collective. The only thing I took exception with was Harvard specifically naming Perea and Buss as reasons for the high expectations and a #1 pre-season ranking in post #20. Anything other than that are words being put in my mouth or assumptions that aren’t true.

  59. I don’t consider a Sweet 16 a “deep run”….not to mention how challenged we were by NMS and the fact we needed Remy and Christian to bail us out against VCU team that basically blew the game.

    Valparaiso made a Sweet 16.

    Ball State made a Sweet 16…

    Butler made back-to-back championship games(that’s a deep run).

    Davis took us to the 2001-02 Final Four by going through a #1 Duke @ a Sweet 16 in Lexington…deep run.

    Elite programs don’t consider Sweet 16s deep runs.

    Geoff with ex-lax of the mouth on a ScoopTalk in Pennsylvania…? Ola-Deep-o runs…but not a “deep run.”

  60. I think the reason it didn’t go down after he left and the suspensions is most voters probably never saw the stories

    Exactly…The dimwit voters with the Establishment are about initial hype and more hype, not details.

    Most novices could write in a top 10 every year and be pretty damn close to the usual suspects.

    Actually, it was Watford’s constant disappearing act last season that had a lot to do with the preseason #1 ranking..

    Maybe just getting rid of VJ catapulted us 15 spots.

    Jordy getting abused by Seth Davis in the press accounted for the rest of the boost in the ranking.

  61. Dustin-

    You and your Establishment would put Perea behind Yogi…I would put the Broad Ripple kid before an A-Hope project that will take four years to develop his first turnaround jumper. You talked as if we were getting George McGinnis..or a Jered Jeffries..or a Steve Downing..or a Landon Turner…or a Ray Tolbert…or a Alan Henderson…or a Kirk Haston…or a Jarrad Odle.

    Of course, you blabbered on for two years about Perea as if he was coming in more valuable than all the stars in a Milky Way Rivals list.

  62. As usual Harvard you’re missing the point…

    I don’t consider the Sweet 16 a “deep run” either. But at least you now are on the same page about the voters. They don’t have time for the details of every team they vote for… They didn’t know the details before the incidents and their votes didn’t change after because they most likely didn’t know the details then either.

    That’s the same reason that Zeller is still showing up on top 10 lists for POY. They are dealing in generalities, not specifics. They are dealing with notions, not details. The notion is that Zeller was the best player coming into the season… They know that other players around the country have been playing better, but they also see that IU is 13-1 so Cody must still be a candidate… I mean he’s the best player on the team, right? They look at the stat lines and everything looks copacetic. They can’t drop him off the list this early in the season because then they look foolish for anointing him before the season started.

    But they don’t watch and disect every IU game like IU fans do. They don’t set their calendars around when the Hoosiers play. They have 100 other teams and players to worry about.

    However they do write about the Hoosiers and the Zellers like they know something. And they rank us pre-season #1. And then the public and IU fans get ahold of those articles, and rankings, and opinions, and it feeds our expectations… But we are the ones that know about Buss and Perea and The Movement in detail.

    The rankings are based on “experts” generalizations… They feed the fire of expectations of IU fans… IU fans understand the details of the team and what each individual talent may bring to the team… Some fans then assume that the “experts” also base their rankings on these details… However, their is no correlation between IU’s #1 ranking and the individual players Buss and/or Perea.

    That is reality.

    By the way, I know hyperbole is your go-to move, but I’d love it if you could provide even one instance where Dustin has ever “blabbered on” about anything or made a player or situation into something bigger than it was.

  63. First,
    Harvard, I was actually, in a way, trying to get you in the mind of “The Establishment,” or really, the average AP voter. (I was one for a year when I covered James Madison in Virginia). Most AP voters have an individual team to cover, and that takes the majority of their time. They know the team they cover inside and out because that’s what they get paid to do. They take on the AP voting gig because it sounds cool and spend the entirety of it trying to know just enough that they never get poll attacked. They might cover recruiting on some level, but they don’t have time to read every single story about every single team and every single recruit. They know rankings are never wholly accurate, but they know the guys who cover recruiting all the time know more about recruiting than they do, so they give them the benefit of the doubt and presume they’re somewhat in the ballpark of accurate. So by that rationale, yes, an “establishment” journalist (or really a reporter who works somewhere outside the state of Indiana) would generally assume that the guy who’s ranked in the Top 40 is better than the guy ranked outside the Top 100 and that the fact that the guy who wasn’t rated in the Top 100 didn’t end up on the team wouldn’t be a crippling blow to a team that returned five scorers who averaged in double figures, and brought in a McDonald’s All-American among three other guys in the Top 50.
    I’ll admit it, I blabbered on about Perea. And if you saw him at the AAU events I did, you would have too. He’s 6-foot-8 with a 7-foot-4 wingspan and he can stick most of his arm in the rim. When I got here, I hadn’t seen a lot of humans who can do what he can do, and I still haven’t. I’ve admitted it time and time again, I presumed that by this point in his career, he’d be less of a project on offense, because he didn’t seem that far behind to me at that point. I was wrong about that. You’re going to try to hit me over the head with that for eternity, and that’s fine. I was wrong.
    I’ve got great things to say about Patterson’s potential to, but like I said, I’ve also seen him when his head isn’t on straight. I think if he kept it all together, he could’ve been an outstanding player in a year or two, but I don’t think he would’ve affected this team’s ranking, because I don’t think he would’ve played in front of Ferrell, Hulls, Oladipo, Abell or Sheehey and maybe not even Hollowell. Beyond just the grades, he had some growing up to do before he was ready, and I don’t know if he would’ve done that by November even if he would’ve gotten in. I said before, I always presumed Oladipo and Sheehey would take him under their wing, and if he reacted well to that, he’d be the next them. If not, he wouldn’t make it through. We’ll never know which would have happened (or which did while he was actually on campus) and I don’t know which side I’d bet on.

  64. Everyone has some “growing up to do”…Even old men.

    You’re becoming quite involved, Dustin. I do declare you’ve lost a bit of objectivity and have sunk your heart into the fine and select men, the privileged few, to ever don the candy-stripes…I always knew you had it in you.

    Welcome aboard. That Hoosier blood will never part from your long and successful beating heart.

    Perea ain’t done yet. He has the all the right tools. You were only ahead of the game. It’s not like you were blinded solely by your sappy heart for cream and crimson. Your not “Establishment.” You’re genuine.

  65. Dustin,

    Post #72 was damn good. The HP and RP thoughts both originally and presently are in the ballpark with mine. Hanner is just going to happen and I always felt when Patterson was locked in to playing with a team full of achievers(and overachievers)he would work his tail off to find a prominent roll like Vic and Will have.

  66. Hanner couldn’t be in a better place, IMHO. Will and Vic are gonna push, push, push him to get better. He looks a little more confident every time he gets on the court. Soon it’s gonna click with him that he can physically do things that the guy across from him just can’t.

    Then it’s ‘Katie bar the door’.

  67. 1…Should it not be…”Debbie bar the door”

    2…Anybody catch the Arizona-Colorado game? Colorado almost pulled it off. They would be a fun team to play. Coach was hugging his guys coming out of the game, Kid named Chin came off the bench and did a number.

    3…Thanks to Cody & Austin. Friend of mine (who was a IU cheerleader many yrs ago) run into the dynamic duo at College Mall. Autographs and piectures with a 7 yr old girl. She said they made her feel like a princess.

  68. On the #3 above. Cody was the target for the autographs/pictures. The “other” guy on crutches (Austin?) said he was also on the team and would be playing next year. So the 7 yr old also got his autograph just in case he also would become. famous

  69. Dustin/Jeremy. a few days ago in the HT there was an obituary of a guy who was a big-cheese in Sudan. Any type of A-Hoops connection?

  70. I strongly disagree Dustin has lost his objectivity. I think he’s doing an awesome job.

    And I think Hanner is going to be special.

  71. Super Bowl ad will feature Kate Upton.
    Not knocking Cody in any way, but, wonder how aggresive he would be if she was presenting the POY award.?

  72. Interesting idea but too many variables such as conditioning. The tazer will be the next step.

    On the same technology theme imagine in-ear communicators.
    “No Jordy. Don’t go under the screen”. “Faster CWat”. “Pass it to Cody”.

    Would have been interesting to listen in to the Iowa coach the other night as he was blowing up

  73. Ron,
    Indirectly, yes. He was the patriarch of the Duany family. His sons all played D-I basketball (Kueth at Syracuse, Duany at Wisconsin, Bil at Eastern Illinois). The youngest, Bil, is still very active in A-HOPE and was one of its founders.

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