1. You guys must be so tired! Just wanted to say the H-T coverage of IU’s season has been so excellent. And – what does “Tijan Forever” mean?

  2. I feel so empty inside. When will the numbness go away? The only thing that I have to keep me going is the thought of a front line of Luke, Noah, Jeremy, Hanner, Troy and Peter next year. If Mo returns to provide leadership and this team takes on Will’s work ethic, we’ll be in a better position next March than we were this year.

  3. Aruss, I love your optimism, but we’re losing too much to graduation and the NBA to think that next year’s IU team will “be in a better position next March.”

    I don’t care how talented IU’s incoming freshman will be, they will not be ready to replace the experience and physical toughness that Jordy, CWat and VO have provided. And if we lose Zeller to the NBA, which I believe is most likely, it would be unfair to expect Luke Fischer to fill his shoes in the first year, if ever.

    I think the reason all true Hoosier fans are hurting this morning is that deep down, we realize that while Crean has brought IU basketball back, and given us a lot to be excited about, this team had the best chance of getting IU back to the final four. They fell short and I think a lot of people realize it’s going to be a while before we have this collection of talent and experience dressed in candy striped pants.

    We’ll be competitive next years, but I don’t think we should expect to win the Big Ten or make it to the Sweet 16. Then again, if for some strange reason Zeller were to stay for another year, forget what I just said.

  4. IU never was consistently quite as good as people thought and went downhill a little after win at Mich State and week off. Teams scouted them and started exposing weaknesses.

    IU is not quite all the way back….they do not dominate on consistent basis and struggle with good teams with good game plans. However, overall had a very good season BIG TEN CHAMPS!


    IU looked like mechanical robots, overthinking….many turnovers without getting a shot.

  6. Podunk ,,even IF you give some credibility yo Jordy”s “toughness”;we saw what the Syracuse mindset was on their first possession( even Boeheim said it in the post game) Their guards were bigger and Tychw took Hulls right to the basket on the first possession
    IU’s guards were to small for championship calibre play. Jordan Hulls played tenative the WHOLE last 1/2 of the season,and Cody Zeller had visions of NBA sugarplums dancing in his head

  7. Nice thoughts to think we will be in better shape next march but we will be so young and return hardly any experience. I think a realistic expectation would be to just make the tourney. This was our year to do the damage!

  8. Think about what we’re losing and what we are gaining next year.

    Hulls, Watford, and Elston reached their ceilings last year. Cody is what he is. Nice player who has a tough time finishing. Victor is out of this world but won’t take over games in deference to the team.

    What do we gain next year, Hanner & Jeremy who had their growth stunted due to lack of playing time who have much higher ceilings than Watford. Stan Robinson who will not let any guard back him down. Sheehey as a starter. Noah who is already projected as a lottery pick. Troy who is an athletic jack of all trades. Luke, Peter, Devin, and Collin. If they put in the work this summer, by March of next year they are top 10. I still think the key is Mo coming back providing leadership, outside shooting and a calmness to the team.

    I loved this year’s team but it was obvious they peaked at MSU and the last month of the season they were off.

  9. “Credit them,” Oladipo said. “They did a great job with their zone. They’re well-coached.”

    Ouch. (Indiana isn’t.)

  10. “Let’s face facts. We haven’t seen a zone like that,” Crean said the man who has been scheduling cupcakes for the last five years.

  11. I am working here near Syracuse and a big Orange fan asked why IU didn’t use a full court press, as that is SU’s weak spot. Louisville and Georgetown did in their W’s over the Orange. Did Coach miss this one?

  12. I completely agree with Aruss. Mo has been the missing link this entire year. I’m not even sure that I would not have pushed it a bit (as in forced a decision that may have been ahead of itself) by giving him more time even when others, with less potential and leadership, seemed to be ahead of him. Even Mo’s remarkable will and emotional strength would have set a different tone to this season, more in terms of what was so unique and admirable about last year’s.

    All of which takes me to one observation (please do not interpret as ‘Fire (anyone)’. I have never seen (IU fan since late 1950’s) an IU team so absolutely unprepared to face a strong, well coached opponent in all my years of watching the Hoosiers. Made even more so by the fact that Jim Boeheim is- as a coach- a ce;ebrated, respected and not an unknown quantity to the Hoosier coaching staff.

    More than anything, very sad. Players like the magnificently blooming Victor Oladipo deserved more assistance, guidance, ideas and support from their coaches. I now hope they take a look at the direction of the program, make decisions and adjustments as needed and move in the direction of supporting the excellent talent they have been able and, seemingly, continue to recruit. I would, however, make the point that focusing first attention to Indiana players, while complementing it with national talent like Oladipo and Sheehey would be my preference (though not my decision to make).

  13. Direction not desire leads you to your destination. Direction is all about preparation and IU was not as well prepared as Syracuse. I worked with Boeheim for several years…his defensive philosophy is quit simple and he recruits to fit it. The IU offense was very easy to matchup to and they are not good at probing any type of zone. IU’s help defense was in poor position all night and shot selection was awful. To put it simply, they were outplayed, outcoached and frankly got their butts beat!

  14. Old coach, you must have been a good ‘old’ coach. You are completely on target, especially about direction. Knew someone who strongly believed that practice does not make perfect; only habitual and/or (if direction does not intervene), permanent. Practice a technically bad form in shooting and a player will end up with a perfectly bad shot.

    Instruction and direction are the key instruments of perfection, in its ‘good’ form.

  15. Between all the anguish, pointing fingers and highlighted weakness of IU players, CTC and staff, couple of points.

    Seniors Jordan Hulls, Dereck Elston and Watford as well as the rest of the team exemplify the term student athlete.
    Seems none of them were in bar fights, spent the night in jail, spent big bucks on jewelry, skipped classes, were found cheating or are on probation.

    Watching coverage of fans greeting them at the airport on their return and parents allowing kids to miss a day of school to meet and greet them, a community proud of them, even in defeat.

    They may have lost a game but it’s safe to say they will do well in life. CTC and staff and all IU employees working with this team should be proud of their results.

  16. Game analysis is not necessarily finger pointing and does not mean these are not quality people but practice is about preparing for a test. The Game is the test and sometimes students don’t pass the test and sometimes the teacher does not prepare them well for the test. When we don’t succeed we need to prepare ourselves to succeed in the next test. This is done through honest reflection. In this case one teacher prepared his students better for the test, his students performed better on the test and were more successful. At this point in time one group was ready for the big stage and the other was not!

  17. This has nothing to do with peeking at the right time. This was simply a mental breakdown from the top to the bottom of the team. Had we not won the “Big10 title anyway, the chronic complainers would have been here anyway. There was no way of seeing this train wreck, it was clear that Cody lived up to my predictions of numerous past posts. Catch, turn, wait 3 seconds, dribble drive to the basket, pray for a foul because this coach clearly had the defense figured out. Cody took one outside shot from near the ft line, surprisingly made it. Caught the ball the same spot 2 other times, defense off him by 5 ft, both announcers on both ocassions stated, hey, he has got to shoot that shot. NOT!!!!

    While I think this has been a thorn in the side parts of the season, there was way more going on last night. Ill prepared game preperations & a total lack seizing the moment. Past posts of mine have also stated that I hope this does not turn out to be character flaw in Creans teams, you know some teams win big games, some teams choke, some teams win tournaments some flop. A team will carry the characteristics of its coach.

    While in the end the season turned out ok, we can lay claim to a Big10 title, outright, still leaps & bounds from where we were, but, I think this team underacheived in the end.

    All in all, it was still tons of fun watching this team play. Hope Cody stays one more year, esp if he develops that turn around jump shot.

  18. You have one of the best 3 point shooters in the country since Alford, and you can’t set a screen for him to get the open look?
    Boeheim was laughing about how little we were on ESPN today. His take “2 undersized guards, a very small forward (Victor) and a 6’8 forward in Watford who doesn’t play 6′ 8, closer to 6’5. Our forwards were blocking their shots and even though we’re 5 th or 6 th in shot blocking, our forwards hardly ever block shots. ”
    Also he couldn’t understand Crean’s comments about the zone – he said that is all they played all year.
    Clearly out coached

  19. Oladipo’s going home party usurped all the focus on the mission…We have a coach that’s known for fattening his resume by finding NBA sleepers…What’s that do for Indiana? Zilch.

    Let’s just all blabber “Tijan forever” for the next 10 years like the do on the LiveChats…Maybe we can hang a Tijan Forever banner in honor of the Establishment.

  20. The season began with high expectations and ended in disappointment. The Sweet 16 isn’t Good Enough. They were there last year.

    Indiana was predicted to be the Number One team in the country by both polls, predicted to win the Big Ten Championship, and predicted to win the NCAA Championship by most (including most of us on this site) prior to the season and then predicted to be in the Final Four if not Championship Game by most (including us) when the Tournament Field was announced.

    They win the Big Ten Regular Season Championship by one game. They lose in the Semi Finals of the Big Ten Championship against a lower seeded team. They lose in the Semi Finals of the East Regional against a lower seeded team, and they are not the Number One team in either poll at the end of the season or tournament.

    This team “Under Achieved” and they will not be better next year without Watford, Hulls, Olidipo (who would be crazy if he did not declare for the NBA) and maybe Zeller who still might stay (though he would be a Lottery Pick if he declared). It’s not ‘Back to the Drawing Board” but it is back to trying to ‘over achieve’ again.

    I’ve followed IU Basketball (and football) since 1967 and I’ll be doing so until they close the lid on me.

    This season has been a disappointment but I’ll always be looking toward better times.

  21. Terryz,
    Boewhine has always been a douchebag. As classless in victory as in defeat. He won a title once because he happened to have Carmelo Anthony on his team. ‘Cuse lost the title in ’87 purely on his sorry coaching. They had a double digit lead halfway through the second half.

    Sure, they manhandled IU. Leads you to wonder why they were barely competitive in their own conference and got killed by Georgetown a couple weeks ago.

    I’m betting they will go nowhere from this point forward. Probably lose to Marquette. He’ll whine his heart out when they lose. He always does. It’s what he does best.

  22. Syracuse (due to Boeheim) knew how to thwart IU. IU didn’t know how to attack Syracuse at the beginning of the game or respond during it. I don’t like him either but he completely outcoached Crean.

  23. I know it sucks and everybody’s still in mourning and all, but I’m just gonna throw this out there: Kentucky was preseason #3 and NC State #6. We know how their seasons ended, and it certainly wasn’t in the Sweet Sixteen against a legitimate Final Four calibre team.

    Three of the four #1 seeds are already gone. With the exception of WSU and Marquette, all the Elite Eight teams were preseason top ten. Syracuse was ranked as high as #3, I believe, and are 27-5 in all games that Southerland wasn’t suspended (including the Big East tourney championship game loss to L’Ville.) They’re hardly a scrub team.

    A brief look at the past ten years reveals that only UNC in ’09, UF in ’07, and UConn in ’04 were preseason #1’s that went on to cut down the nets. Nearly all were unanimous or near-unanimous preseason picks to win it all. Indiana was far from a prohibitive favorite by comparison. In fact, only Kansas in ’05 had fewer #1 votes in either preseason poll than IU this year, and they lost in the first round to Bucknell.

    This loss, while heartbreaking, is not nearly as atrocious as some are making out to be. Sure, this team was special to all of us if for no other reason than its rags-to-riches story. Well, and because it’s Indiana. I just hope everybody will gain some perspective in time, and learn to remember this team for its phenomenal accomplishments, not it’s failures.

  24. Rico,

    We lose a heartbreaker, and all you can do is being smart and ill humored about our loss. I don’t get it.

  25. old coach is right. crean has no idea how to run a zone offense. before the game crean was quoted as saying standing around against the zone is a recipe for defeat. i thought, uh-oh. actually, you don’t want your 3 perimeter players doing that much moving at all, but rather spotting up for 3’s. we often had 2 players up top against a 2-3 zone! laughable.

    zeller hasn’t developed at all under crean. in fact no player playing the 4 or 5 has learned to score inside with proper post moves since crean has been here. it’s comical watching zeller and watford trying to score inside. could damage future recruiting of big men knowing this staff cannot develop their game for the nba.

    the final verdict on crean is in. great recruiter, nice guy (evangelism not withstanding), runs a squeaky clean program, but a poor x & o’s coach and doesn’t know how to teach fundamentals. that’s what we have.

    i wouldn’t anticipate any ncaa banners.

  26. Punjab,

    Great perspective and research. It wasn’t atrocious, in my mind, that we lost. It was, however, atrocious how we played in that game. Syracuse is a very good team, with very good players… So it’s not like people were looking at the bracket after the game and saying “I never saw that coming”.

    Did IU underachieve? Yes. Ask the players… “Hey Jordy, do you think you guys played to your potential at the end of the year?” Ask Watford, “Did you think you were a championship team this year, or only Sweet 16 calibre?” Do you really think that Crean’s personal expectations for the team were the same as Andy Enfields’s? That’s what makes the taste so bitter this year compared to last.

    Listen, it’s one game and anything can happen. It doesn’t define the entire season. I will remember this season for the rest of my life. I’m sure ill tell my son about this season, and the boys that brought IU basketball back… And how much I loved watching Hulls and Dipo.

    It’s one game, and anyone can be out-coached… Crean was. But I’m sure that Crean learned a lot from this year and that game. He learned what’s its like to deal with expectations. He learned what’s its like to truly be in the media spotlight. He was humbled by how his team looked in their final game on the national stage. He’s going to learn all off-season how it feels to disappoint a rabid fan base like Indiana’s. kissing babies and bringing back the ’81 championship team isn’t going to cut it anymore.

    It’s one game and anyone can be out-hustled and out-played… We were. We now have young players returning that understand what’s its like to be the hunted instead of the hunter. We have players coming back that have the awful taste of disappointment in their mouths, that hopefully drives them all summer to worked their asses off. I’m sure Yogi and Will will carry on where Jordy left off driving the team in summer workouts. And those players better come back much improved and stronger, because we have a class coming in that I’m sure is looking to play right now.

    Listen, it was one sh!tty game. It’s embarrassing. It shows “we still aren’t baaaaaaaack”, at least all the way. But this season reminded everyone what we can be. And the season reminded recruits in state that we are King of the B1G. And it showed kids nationally that IU wasn’t just some team that was good when color TVs were fuzzy and coaches dressed like bad used car salesmen.

    It’s fair to criticize Crean and the players for their performance on Thursday. And for many of us it’s cathartic. It’s fair to say this team under-achieved… I’m sure they agree. It’s also fair to be optimistic about the future of IU basketball – yes… under the guidance of Tom Crean – because we’ve now proven we can beat #1, we can be #1, we can win on the road in the B1G, we can win B1G titles, we can out-duel an Izzo-led title contender in a hostile environment, and we can earn a #1 seed. There are still things to prove, and I’m sure that will drive Crean and his guys every single day, so when it comes down to just one game again they don’t leave with this feeling.

  27. Punjab, I’m on board with you. I wanted to win the title. I am certainly disappointed that we didn’t make the Final Four, as is Kansas, Gonzaga, Miami, et al. It’s March Madness. It happens.

    I AM delighted that we won the outright Big Ten title for the first time in forever. Especially since it’s considered one best collections of talent ever put together. While it definitely isn’t considered the same level of achievement, THAT accomplishment was probably as difficult as winning this tourney.

    We lost in every phase of the game to the ‘Cuse, including coaching. I sure wouldn’t want to have Boewhine around as our coach, though. I’d always feel like the team was one whistle blower away from probation. They may not have felt they had enough evidence to convict Bernie Fine for child molestation but he was far from being exonerated, as well. It’s always something at the ‘Cuse.

    Plus, he’s the biggest complainer in the game. To this day he claims in ’87 ALL his players were signaling for a timeout after Smart’s shot but the officials ran off three seconds before they whistled for it. I watched the end of that game the other night for the 500th time. I still never did see a ‘Cuse player signal for a time out. I think the official finally just called one out of mercy. Boewhine and his players just stood there dumbfounded. That game was a coaching disaster for the ‘Cuse. They collapsed.

    I feel the worst for our seniors, particularly Jordy. He was living the storybook ending to his college basketball career. I doubt he ever considered the possibility that the Hoosiers wouldn’t win the whole thing. Everything had fallen into the story line so far.

    He’ll be on the Hoosier coaching staff some day. Count on it. They’ll win the title, too. He’ll will it to happen.

    Expectations. Take them away and it’s a great season. Very successful. Add them into the mix and it’s all about disappointment. For those of you who weren’t fans in ’74-’75, this disappointment is NOTHING. We weren’t even supposed to challenged. Just hand us the trophy and we’ll be on our way.

    This WAS a successful year. I think we were exposed as not being physically strong and quick enough to bring home the title (just my opinion). We did win the Big Ten. Hopefully, Coach Crean grew as a coach, as well (another opinion, he can also become a better strategist). Now that the sting is starting to subside I can appreciate what they did and not just wallow in what they didn’t do.

    I DO think CTC is very good at assembling a team. Next year will be another challenge. Unlike some of the prophets of doom I think we’ll be in the mix next season, as well.

    Go Hoosiers!

  28. Coachv,

    Need to play a little Devil’s advocate with you…

    So is the final verdict also out on Tom Izzo? Good coach, good recruiter, makes a wonderful Scampi a la Marinara, but the game has passed him by…

    I mean he had more McDonald’s AA’s on his roster than Crean did. He didn’t win the B1G title this year… In fact he lost to Crean twice. He didn’t get a #1 seed this year… He got to play close to home in the Midwest Region and still lost in the Sweet 16… But hey, it was to the all-time winningest coach in basketball history, it was like he lost to… Oh wait… Boehiem’s the 2nd winningest coach in D1 history…

    I just wonder if you’re ready to close the book on Izzo? I mean he IS 58. He has been to 6 FF’s and only has 1 title, and that was 13 years ago. Does Izzo get a pass for only coming in 2nd this year? Does Izzo get a pass for only going to the Sweet 16 this year? Does Izzo get a pass for losing to a HOF coach with over 900 D1 wins? Izzo had 3 McDonald’s All-Americans and started 3 upperclassmen… Did they over-achieve or under-achieve?

    Should State fans just accept the fact the Izzo is going to be their coach for the foreseeable future, or should they be thrilled about it?

    Listen, Crean is 47. There were some poeple who said the verdict was out on him 2 years ago when IU was coming off its 3rd straight 20 loss season. But apparently he had a little more under the hood. If you look at the IU program like a stock on the NYSE you would buy. It’s at the start of an upward trend and their futures look very good. Not sure you can quite make a final judgement yet.

  29. ^ You would not buy.

    Marquette sold the Crean stock and they’re soaring.

    Crean had an amazingly talented team and just screw them off.

    Somewhat unbelievably, Crean claimed that he hadn’t expected the Orange to play that much zone, prompting a string of wisecracks at how any professional college coach could’ve failed to prepare for Syracuse’s most signature tactic.

    Lord of the Lottery Pick you take the best pics!

    And it fell to the oldest trick of the fourth-seeded Orange. In fact it fell to Syracuse’s only trick, the one it has played for decades in the Big East and the one it will play in its ACC future,” writes Yahoo’s Les Carpenter. “Who would have thought Indiana would collapse in the jaws of a simple zone defense.”

    Hats off to the players who had a great season fighting not just their opponents but also the ignorance of their own coach.

  30. coachv
    You said the key word.FUNDAMENTALS.If IU makes four or five more free throws this is a close game coming down to the wire. If a team is going to play fast they have to play smart.Stop flinging the ball around like it’s a damn hot potato. Learn to value the basketball and hit your free throws when it matters.Encouragement is fine but there comes a time when you have to stop applauding mistakes.

  31. Sorry… screw[ed] them off.

    Squandered them.

    Temple beat Syracuse earlier this season.

    Marquette beat Syracuse earlier this season.

    Against the Hoosier Syracuse missed open look after open look.

    But the lack of a plan (other than “let’s pray!”) doomed the Hoosiers.

    Jim Boeheim is just another Bo Ryan for Crean.

    With Marquette Crean played Syracuse three times: in 2006, 2007 and 2008 (twice at home and once away) and lost them all. Who are we kidding?

  32. Yep. Cuse is a bad match-up for Crean. That is clear. So when we play them twice in the regular season next year we can pencil on 2 losses…

    Playing the “Team A beats Team B, so Team C should” game is stupid. You can make some good points, so don’t go the stupid route. Indiana beat more good teams than anyone else in the country this year and last year we beat 3 top 5 teams.

    Crean was out-coached… Well I’d actually say he was ill-prepared… Cuse did their thing and IU couldn’t do anything to it or about it. But it was one game. Crean hasn’t figured Cuse out yet (but by no means is that a “simple zone defense”). He hasn’t figured out Ryan yet either. But he has figured out just about everyone else. Maybe with time and talent he’ll figure out those guys. Maybe it won’t matter. The chances of having to play them in the NCAA’s to win a title are low. A lot of paths have to converge precisely for them to meet any given year with the season in the balance.

    You never know… Wouldn’t it be great if in the next couple years if we beat UW and Cuse on the way to a title. Going forward he’ll have more talent to work with against those teams that’s he ever had in the past, and he’ll have more personal experience as well.

  33. Geoff, don’t be an idiot. Team A beats Team B means that if we beat Team A we might have a chance at beating Team B when we play them. It means “It’s possible!” But for Crean it’s IMPOSSIBLE. That’s the issue here so don’t act like you’re missing half a brain. Even though his team made an effort and beat Team A (Temple). It was only through their individual effort that they beat Temple (Crean at that point according to his own words was only “praying”).

    Crean unprepared? No way. Ignorant, incompetent is more like it.

  34. Oh and by the way… Marquette never sold Crean’s stock. They bought it. He took their program to new heights and ushered them very successfully into the Big East. Marquette had no say in Crean leaving. IU came in with a power play and forced an acquisition.

    And apparently Les Carpenter is a total idiot. He acts like IU played Sister Mary of the Poor’s 2-3 zone. “Syracuse’s only trick” that they’ve been playing for decades has gotten Boehiem 919 wins and a National Title. It is being run by a HOF coach and McDonalds’s All-Americans at 3 positions… “A simple zone defense”… He must be a football writer they brought over to help cover the tournament.

  35. Maybe we should close the book on Izzo. He has a .167 record of winning a championship when he even gets to a Final Four(Knight = .600). Maybe coaching ability truly does expose itself in the biggest games.

    And maybe IU is just too much exposure for Tom Crean. You can keep crappy coaching under the radar at Marquette. But Indiana gets a lot of attention from the Establishment and expectations will always be different than at a program like Marquette. What does a Brad Stevens do with the same level of talent this year’s Hoosier team brought to the tournament?

    All I ever heard on Hoosier blogs was that “elite” status is defined by number of NCAA championship banners. Purdon’t has plenty of Big 10 titles. And when PU gets into the Big Dance they are known for choking.

    And how can a guy be a phenomenal recruiter but not a good coach that wins big games? Don’t recruits begin to figure it out? Don’t recruits begin to wonder if their talents will be maximized under this great salesman that lures but can’t deliver them winning game plans when they’re playing on the biggest stages in front of national audiences?

    Sorry, but Cody Zeller has not been given the benefit of top coaching. He regressed because there did not exist sound compliments on the roster and sound schemes to utilize his size and gifts. He regressed and I believe it was more than 75% on the hands of the coaches. Don’t we all remember the famous “Everything hinges on Zeller” slogan that 4guards beat into the ground. 4guards was correct…Crean’s coaching future and his contract extensions..and the followup recruits that came as a result of Cody Zeller, all “hinged” on Cody Zeller. Banners hinging on Zeller? No. You can’t fake it at IU like you can with a D-Wade once every decade. Elite status achieved by having a coach that won’t get exposed from his lack of readiness for a program always under the microscope that requires more than a coach that can just barely get the passing grade or C- when it comes to game planning and the x’s and o’s?

    More years of mockery from an Establishment media full of East Coast cynics like Doug Gottlieb enjoying many future chances to ridicule IU on national networks during March Madness? Yes.

    Cornfed hicks that hired a preachy blowbag and will never get their NCAA mojo back. Yes.

    It’s not all Crean’s fault. He played to the tune of the hicks and did what he could with his connections to Doc Rivers and his pipeline to Jersey. Recruit 160 miles north of Indy? Find a true gutsy player like Mitch McGary in Northwest Indiana only three hours north of Bloomington..? Nope. He had to play to the hick fans that demanded their AAU boys playing in the radius their limited perspectives and one tank of gas. He had to play to the tune of dinosaurs entrenched in IU like Adams. Along with those forced relationships comes bringing in projects and players that simply don’t belong on a top basketball program. You can’t have a coach that recruits based on the desires its fan base and the licking of boots every leech that wants a piece of Indiana. You have to be your own man. Are we looking for the purity and image of a “say what you want to hear” trophy coach or a coach that can empower himself through his expertise at the craft? I want recruits that come to Indiana because they believe in the craft and the teachings more than the distant traditions built by other men and the holier-than-thou image growing more created and fraudulent by the year.

  36. Let me remind you Geoff we were ranked No. 1.

    Let me remind you that we were playing this year’s Cuse team.

    This year with this team Boeheim did not have 919 wins.

    This year with this team he lost 39 – 61 to the Hoyas.

    I know you’re usually removed from reality but still…

  37. The Movement came because of Zeller…The ‘Second Movement’ and a few East Coast pipeliners comes as a primary result of the first Movement.

    Basically, you can attribute whatever conference success we’ll have over the next 3-5 years as a direct result of one signature recruit. Gotta feel a bit bad for Cody. He’s likely playing in a a couple Final Fours if he signs with UNC or Duke. He was blinded by the light and the preacher who can only make his name by finding NBA sleepers.

  38. Totally disagree Harvard. Cody came to IU, because he wanted too. I am sure he had great impact from his parents as well, seeing how they love their son. Your movement theory has no merit. The truth is Crean can recruit, and has forged friendships, thus creates pipelines.

    This team will make Final 4’s. As good as Hulls, Watford, and at one time Creek was, he wouldn’t recruit them again. Back in the day, he needed to field a team, and formed a nucleus. Granted, they improved, and very very proud of what they did here, but when Cody came in, it elevated how we recruit as well. Going forward, our teams will be more athletic, and better understand X’s and O’s because of fewer limitations.

    Crean knows what he is doing. If being a preacher to these kids is the worst thing he is doing, then I guess the world has passed me over at age 32, and morality has went down the shi**er.

  39. But don’t blind them with the bright heavenly light upon our fading traditions simply because its the easiest form of temptation to deceive them of your ineptitude and ability to get the passing grade at coaching.

    Indiana basketball will expose you very quickly. The Sampson fallout fired up the masses…But now the witch hunts and fire building no longer feeds upon a frenzied fan base latching onto a savior with his speeches of 19 F’s and decimation.

    Power hungers and it masks incompetency when in the turmoil its sermons. But now the dust has settled at Indiana and we realize it was mostly our own failings that elevated the hatred and drove the hysteria. But now what? Now we listen for truth rooted in knowledge more than the superficial tongue that capitalizes on the opportunity to incite. Now the real light comes on. Now the chasing a monster trough the streets is over. Now a man is exposed for what he is.

  40. Harvard
    WOW!Shades of Hemingway in Key West after consuming a bottle of Rum.(Or maybe Idaho after loading the shotgun)

  41. Always the “slit your wrists”…”blow your brains out”…”load the shotgun”…”time to take your meds”….”alcoholic”…”I would like to tell you to your face that you’re a moron”..endless references.

    Other than being a bit more subtle in your arrogance and contempt for an opinion you cannot find agreement, you’re really no different than the slightly more grotesque insult-thrower you all claimed was exceedingly destructive to this blog.

    It’s amazing who immaturely some of you react to words you cannot handle. It’s you that throw the knives and aim the rifle..Too cowardly to look inward, you seek order by way of snide attacks and inferences simply because it’s the lowest common denominator of your territorial instincts.

  42. Ben, your comment, “As good as Hulls, Watford, and at one time Creek was, he wouldn’t recruit them again” is right on target. It’s similar to the point I was making yesterday when I suggested that a few key IU players had peaked at the beginning of the season and had developed their game to the limit of their athletic ability. That’s why, over the last 10 games of the season, we did not see this team improve at the same rate as other teams. We had too many key players that had already reached the limit of their athletic abilities. In addition, having a couple of key freshman suspended for the first nine games of the season clearly affected their development and may have contributed to why they were not able to make a bigger contribution toward the end of the season.

    The truth is, Syracuse had more and better athletic talent ready to play in Thursday’s game. In addition, that talent had the benefit of playing for one of the most accomplished coaching staff’s in the country.

    You know, the “elephant in the room” is this. Some IU fans expect every IU basketball coach to accomplish what Bob Knight accomplished at IU, and they expect him to accomplish it the exact same way. Those are the expectations, and they are unrealistic. Those people fail to realize that Bob Knight, for all his faults, was one of the greatest basketball coaches in history, if not the greatest ever! For most of his tenure at IU, Knight had the unique ability to get superior performance from less than superior athletic talent. He rarely had the most athletically gifted players on the floor. But he was a genius at getting the talent he had to play to their full potential and to play together. In 1987, when Keith Smart’s shot beat Syracuse to win the National Championship, IU was NOT the most athletically talented team on the court that night. Coached by any other man, that IU team would not have been in the championship game, let alone win it.

    It is unrealistic, unfair and futile to expect Tom Crean or any other man to be the equal of Bob Knight when Knight was in his prime at IU. It is unfair and unrealistic for anyone to expect Tom Crean to do things the way Knight did things when he was at IU. But that does not mean that Tom Crean can not be highly successful doing things his way, with his own unique strengths and with his own style. As far as I can see, there’s only one coach that has matched or exceeded Bob Knight, and he’s firmly established as Duke’s head basketball coach. And how long did it take Coach K to establish Duke as a winning basketball program, even after his years of playing for and studying at the side of the master?

  43. I will also add to what PO said by recruiting has drastically changed, since Knight was at IU. Not always, but in most cases smaller schools were obscure to good talent, cause the established universities gobbled them up. Not no more. It’s anyone’s game now, with Internet. We live in a interesting age. Pre Internet and Internet worldwide.

    Harvard, if my words are destructive to this blog, then I demand Dustin to ban me now, or you lead a change with the scoopers, overthrow Dustin’s rule, and rid of me.

    It’s 2013. This isn’t your grandparents game anymore. What Sampson did was unfortunate, and ruined this program, but the fans like us never have up, and continue to press on. If you forget your history, you are doomed to repeat it. Life does move on, and need to let go of the past. I am sure as long as we have Crean, it won’t be forgotten.

    You make the argument Story and Williams transferred. Yes, they did. It wasn’t because of an “establishment”. They saw a program and desperate lows, and wanted out. Weak stomach perhaps?

  44. Stationary, how exactly does an ignorant, incompetent coach come to lead a team to that #1 ranking you so aptly reminded us of? I certainly won’t absolve him of all culpability for some of our shortcomings. His in-game management has often been lacking, and i really dont understand what the hell Indiana’s doing with the clock at the end of games sometimes. We’ve also looked really bad on too many inbounds plays (and I’m not just talking about Illinois.) But I try to look at things objectively– both anecdotally and in aggregate. And I just don’t see how somebody can justifiably blast Crean as a complete dunce who has absolutely no idea what he’s doing when you look at Indiana’s accomplishments on the whole since he took over. Even if you take the “players win games, coaches lose them” approach, somebody had to put those players on the court in a position to win. It takes a pretty jaded mentality to give somebody all the blame and none of the credit.

  45. … Or an antagonistic mentality. Some people just like to rabblerouse. If that’s your gig, then by all means carry on…

  46. Ben and Po, while I think you’re both right about IU going in a more athletic direction, and players like Jordy will be fewer and far between on our rosters going forward, I can’t help but wonder how much of an effect this has on our traditionalist fans. I’ll call it the Milan Syndrome. And as much as I’d like to romanticize about the days of un-athletic farm boys leading us to greatness, it just won’t happen with consistency. Some of our fans may never get over that.

  47. “un-athletic farm boys leading us to greatness..?”

    Un-athletic farm boys like Steve Downing, George McGinnis…Isiah Thomas…Scott May..Bobby Wilkerson…Alan Henderson…Ray Tolbert…Quinn Buckner…Daryl Thomas…Landon Turner…Greg Graham…Keith Smart..etc..etc..etc.

    I love how these Establishment know-nothings attempt to paint that Milan BS all over our Hoosier past. Jurkin, Bawa, Tijan, and Hanner vs. Downing, Tolbert, Turner..and Henderson? I’d love to be in the barn for that four on four.

    Without Zeller we’d still be bottom-feeding.

  48. Ha. I wondered if that cast might catch me a Hillbilly. But seriously, Harv, why do you think we’ve seen so many posters on here pine for the glorious arrival of Stevens at the helm? I can throw out names like Alford, Bailey, Roth, Coverdale, and Haston on our more celebrated teams. Butler has had names like Clarke, Smith, and… Uh… well I can’t remember the dudes from their two championship game runs. But they generally played with more heart and intelligence– plus better shooting– than their more athletically superior counterparts. You can’t deny that’s at least part of the reason why so many Hoosier fans have embraced them.

    If Ben and Po are correct, there will be many a Hoosier who won’t accept Crean’s apparent “athleticism trumps shooting” approach until we’ve proven we can win it all. Some, not even then. It’s not establishment to acknowledge that some of our fans will never recognize Smart as doing much else other than hitting The Shot– the rest was all Alford’s doing. It’s also not establishment to say that Butler also underperformed this year in a league with far inferior talent. People remember what they want to remember, and see what they want to see.

  49. For all you CTC detractors…Syracuse beat Marquette 55 to 39 …AND Marquette had played Syracuse 1 time already;so they weren’t surprised or “intimidated” by the “Zone”. Having said that though still need guards that are tall enough to shoot over MOST Zones amd IM not talking 6 footers…but 6’4 to 6’6

  50. Anybody else still buying that soaring Marquette stock? You know, that team that just scored 39 (8% do which came with 20 seconds to go when a 6’9′ 290lb PF hit his first three of the season?) against that average 2-3 zone that Marquette is clearly unfamiliar with in the Big East?

    Syracuse looked dominant. Again. You can’t help but wonder how different our season would end up if those first few open looks (and FTs) against the Orange would’ve gone down against that zone. That game has an entirely different outlook if we’re playing with confidence instead of the panic we displayed all too often when the shots weren’t falling.

  51. TJ, you beat me to it! Seeing Marquette lose even worse than IU lost to Syracuse makes me wonder if Syracuse is just peaking at the right time. They’re defense was dominant again today.

    Syracuse is now going to the final four. It’s the first time in ten years that the great and powerful Syracuse basketball team has made it that far. By the standards and logic of some of the geniuses posting on this site, their great coach, the second winningest coach in NCAA DI history, should have been fired five years ago.

    And someone remind me, how long did it take coach K’s Duke team to make it to his first final four? Did he have to resurrect a Duke program from the ashes of NCAA sanctions?

  52. How can you lose to the Shockers?

    I mean they’re a mid-major that uses THE oldest gimmick in the book… Man to man defense.

    Clearly OSU needs to go in another direction.

  53. Marquette was one of the worst outside shooting (3s) teams in the country all year. They got beat because they couldn’t hit shots. They got looks. IU didn’t. Yogi and Jordan were outscored 38 to 0. IU had an inside/outside game. Marquette hasn’t had that all year. IU has more talent and should have been better prepared. I don’t care that Syracuse beat Marquette. IU should have given Syracuse a better game (once again, Crean coached against Syracuse and Boeheim for 9 years) and I think should have beaten them. A Syracuse player on ESPN Radio mentioned that walking off the court during timeouts, IU players were saying to the IU coaches that they couldn’t get open or get penetrtion. Obviously, those coaches couldn’t come up with anything for one of the most talented teams in the nation so that they could. Syracuse wasn’t undefeated. Other teams solved their zone and IU’s players should have been given the opportunity by this staff to solve it too. IU’s coaches were unable to do so either in preparation for this game or during it. There is no bright spot here.

  54. On average Marquette is doing better than when Crean was there. Crean’s team again imploded. Crean’s team was unprepared. Boeheim said:

    “They never really succeeded in getting the ball in the right places,” Boeheim said about the Hoosiers. “And it’s not that easy, but it can be done. But they didn’t know how to do that.”

    Would you believe Boeheim or Podonkey?

  55. With Crean Marquette won exactly one NCAA tournament game without Wade and is 5-5 in the tournament. Since Buzz came Marquette is 10-6 in the tournament. Buzz beat Boeheim this year. Crean hasn’t. Maybe Crean has peaked too early (when he recruited Tijan was one of his finest moments)…

  56. On average Davis’ teams are arguably better than McCracken’s. (I’m sure somebody will check the stats.) Branch had three losing seasons, and six times they were no better than four games over .500. How many did Davis have? And what’s the ratio of of seasons coached vs Final Fours?

    Not saying that Davis was a better coach than McCracken. Branch is in the HOF with two NCAA Championships. Davis is coaching at… Where is he coaching at again? But you can throw out cherry-picked stats and anecdotes all you want. Doesn’t change the overall narrative except for those that hear only what they want to hear.

  57. Averages mean something for average basketball programs like Marquette. Averages are not that significant indicators for elite basketball programs like Indiana.

  58. Wow, such craziness. So, CTC prefers “athleticism over shooting”? Even though we had absurdly high shooting percentages.
    We’ve gone to two straight Sweet Sixteen rounds we’re a failure. That makes everyone else really, I mean REALLY, suck.
    Geoff is so right. By what weird metric is a team that just won the crazy good Big Ten and took it’s second straight trip to the Sweet Sixteen, with a couple POY candidates, every player graduating, some with graduate degrees, and a ridiculous record against top ten teams a disappointment. That’s just stupid.
    We didn’t win the NCAA Championship and you’re disappointed? Get a frickin’ grip. That’s damn near impossible. Only one team does it every year. You don’t just say you’ll work really hard and then you’ll win an NCAA Championship. Everybody else is working just as hard. I can’t believe people think winning an NCAA Championship is as simple as “committing yourself”.
    Absolutely all the stars have to come together to win an NCAA Championship.

    We had a good year.

  59. You can’t deny Chet that this was the year to get it done. I agree many things have to line up, but can you blame Hoosier nation for being disappointed. I thought our biggest liability was our bench. What seemed so deep at the beginning, was very thin in many ways.

    I really do understand where your coming from. Lets face it, we are the minority who really follow this team. Many people are just casual fans, who get caught up in the whole deal. It was natural for them to think if we made Sweet 16 last season, with minimal departures, then we would surely do better this year.

    As I debated with Harvard, I think many of our seniors just hit glass ceilings. We will be more athletic season after season. I believe Coach Crean don’t have his system fully in place yet.

  60. Good one Chewt. Two straight sweet sixteens is your measure of excellence for Tommy Naismith, reinventor of basketball?

  61. geoff,

    izzo has fast food all-americans. we have real ones.

    i don’t need to justify my analysis of crean’s coaching by making comparison’s to other coaches and citing statistics. i know what i see. if i say crean doesn’t know how to attack a zone, winning or losing is irrelevant. i just see where his mistakes are. if you had an hour, a stack of cocktail napkins and a pen, and bought a couple beers i’d be glad to trade diagrams with you. but nobody here wants to be bored with technique here.

    i also don’t need a stat book to understand how zeller’s potential is being wasted due to poor coaching. in a gym i’d happily demonstrate every move he is missing.

    yet crean does well. imagine how good he could be if he were a better teacher of the game. he’s a good recruiter, and that alone will bring a lot of success. he just leaves a lot to be desired in his knowledge of the game. and he isn’t the brightest guy in the world.

  62. Just wanted to “romanticize about the days of un-athletic farm boys” a bit more…

    How could I forget these two good ol’ un-athletic farm boys..

    Mike “The Hay Baler Screener” Woodson

    Calbert “Take it to the Cuppulo!” Cheaney

    And how could be forget that last corny dork recruited by Knight that helped lead us to our last Final Four through the Mike Davis back barn door…..What was his name..? Jared “Double-jointed Hickory Knees” Jeffries?…or was it Jay “Roll me the Hashishketball” Edwards?

    Rain on the scarecrow, blood on the plow….

    Is John Cougar paid by the Establishment to add to our metropolitan image? And a Sampson thug, Jordan Crawford, suiting up for Doc Rivers…? Put in the call, Tom…Maybe we can re-recruit that Milan thumper back to join Jonny Marlin in our backcourt.

    Chet’s blogging chair.

  63. Summer 2012 IU Basketball Awareness Test failed by Ron Patterson: Understanding the Syracuse Zone.

  64. Moonwalking bear. I’d seen that clip before and I still missed it. Maybe it was the Dos Equis, but either way that was Pretty darn funny, Harv. I’m also very impressed you were able to term Jeffries as a corny dork. Not many people can do that. Well done.

  65. Punjab-

    You’re a good sport.

    Have you ever tried Half Acre beer brewed in Chicago? Recently tried this brew with a delicious sandwich from a wonderful little homemade sausage restaurant shop named Franks ‘n Dawgs.

    The locally brewed golden ale and the spicy sausage topped with pulled pork and slaw all tucked in a thick buttery toasted loaf serving as its cradle of sinful creation …Heaven.

  66. Harvard, you’re right…lately, I’ve often waited and read any number of posts (not just yours) before thinking about a spectrum of points and thoughts raised before synthesizing, evaluating and developing/modifying/OR NOT my own views.

    My conclusion, we met our (at least my) expectations; we were good, at one point very good; but, had some clear shortcomings and weaknesses. With or without CTC they would have cost us a game and that’s all it takes in the NCAA. We happened to run into Syracuse, an excellent team that is peaking late and is physically built exactly the way it hurts us.

    God created the Earth and, shortly thereafter, Man (in various lengths). After the first commercial time-out, He also designed the 2-3 zone similar to what Jud Heathcote ran at Michigan State and Jim Boeheim runs at Syracuse. It is made for teams with very tall timber (not all tall timber is from Lebanon as in the OT), especially at the guards. When they extended their arms sideways they covered from one side of the 3-point line to the other side, shooters facing the basket got their ‘looks’ but still could not ‘see’ their shot. It didn’t help that they are also excellent athletes and superbly coached. So we lost.

    Why? As Chet said on the nature of the NCAA tournament and why teams, even great ones lose: “You don’t just say you’ll work really hard and then you’ll win an NCAA Championship. Everybody else is working just as hard. I can’t believe people think winning an NCAA Championship is as simple as “committing yourself”.

    Sadly Chet;there is some humor to the thought that some folks really believe there is some magical sort of ‘justice and Divine destiny’ out there that responds to that sense of Hoosier ‘moral outcome’ (trying hard to avoid the use of the word ‘entitlement’. That, by the way fellow Hoosiers, is also exactly what Kentucky folks think (when they are in it), Louisville folks think, Ohio State…Syracuse…Kansas, North Carolina…and Butler, and…

    It is one thing to be a fan, another to be a fanatic.

    Where are we? Where are we going? Every Hoosier fan and regular on this blog should read Podunker’s #46 (in fact, I think it should be required reading in the third grade); as good and thoughtful an evaluation of what has happened to all of us over the last 2-3 decades (and you could go back to the 1950’s and say the same)and what is really special about our IU. CTC indeed deserves his credit for having recovered and preserved this meaning of ‘It’s Indiana’ and we, have to keep it alive…even when we lose, through the haze and the hurt and, even, the anger,… ‘It’s (Still) Indiana”.

  67. HfH…Dawgs!!!!!! You are becoming a gourmand of fine dining, sophisticated cuisines and exotic basketball…or is is exotic cuisines and sophisticated round ball.

    You have got to let me know ahead of time on your next voyage to the mighty Windy. Have you ever tried grilled, crusty ‘mollejas’ or ‘morcilla’ dipped in freshly made ‘chimichurri’? Washed down with a 2004 Malbec. If God made anything better than that, he kept it for Himself.

    Monday…………………..C-U-B-B-I-E-S!! THIS IS THE YEAR!!!!!!

  68. Just doing a little deep blog diving..Put on the scuba gear in an attempt to harness the disappointment and gain perspective.

    Harvard for Hillbillies
    Monday, November 5, 2012 – 1:36 PM UTC

    I would suffice to say this team is currently in a bit of trouble. We will miss Elston. We will even miss some of the craftiness a Verdell Jones. We may regret not working harder to do right by Patterson. And, unlike Chet, I believe Pritchard was an integral component of our success last year. We will miss the spark from Roth and the backbreaking potential his long bombs. It may not be all roses this year. The Big 10 is stronger. Michigan and MSU are lurking with some heavy talent. Branden Dawson(Do you know I actually once referred to him as the next D-Wade and preferred we put him in candy stripes before Cody..? Talk about foolish blow)…Anyway, “they” are saying Dawson is coming out of the blocks with a new form of awesome in his game..showing no signs of being derailed by his season-ending injury of last year. Mitch McGary at Michigan will teach even the great Cody a few things he may need to work on.

    There are no guarantees. I love the Hoosiers, but I love the game more. It never fails me by making everyone wrong(including Harvard)

    Goodnight. Go Cubs!!

    I have two Cubs poems…Anyone interested?

  69. Harv, a married man who has to travel with soon-to-be three kids doesn’t have that luxury. Only 18 years until my yearly trip to Chicago will be all about the Cubs, my buddies, and whatever else we want to do. That will likely include multiple dogs, Oldstyles, Italian beef sandwiches , bleacher seats, and whatever brewery we stumble across. Until then, I have a responsibility to raise my Children. Good news, though. My youngest daughter turns two next month, and she already knows the IU fight song. My oldest instinctively says “go Cubbies” every time daddy cheers. My unborn son already kicks during IU games. God bless that woman for our offspring. I haven’t even been home to instill all these values, but she’s done a damn fine job…

  70. Ben, disappointment is different. I’m really, really disappointed. I thought we had a great chance to win it all and we didn’t.

    There’s a big difference between being disappointed and calling the team a failure.

  71. Harvard, I’d never survive that chair. Just schedule me for the OR if I got on that thing.

  72. Some of you are acting like IU got beat by 50 on Thursday night. I guess it could have happened but it didn’t. As dominant as Syracuse was they could not pull away. Give the Hoosiers and their coaches just a wee bit of credit. Yes, this was a bad loss on a public stage but I am proud of our kids and our coaching staff.

    Food for thought: Coach Knight would have been drawn and quartered on the blogs (had there been blogs) by you same basketball geniuses.

    1994 — Feb. 27 – IU’s worst defeat under Knight, 50 point loss – Minnesota 106, Indiana 56.

    In 1998, Michigan would blow out the Hoosiers at home for the second straight time, after beating Indiana 112-64 last year. Knight said, “It looked like we made no effort to prepare for the game, neither the players nor the coaches.”

  73. Coachv, I agree that Crean doesn’t do well attacking zones… We also saw it against Northwestern and Minny with those 1-3-1’s. And I agree that they’ve done a poor job in developing Zeller. I agree that you don’t need wins and losses or stats to measure those things.

    I don’t agree that the final verdict is out on Crean. He is roughly 1/3 of the way through his head coaching career. He has plenty of time to absorb knowledge and re-develop strategies.

    It will be interesting to see what happens when he employs his style with a stable of top recruits. I don’t know that it will be the end-all, but I’m interested to see. He had a style of play and type of player at Marquette. He ran that style with 3 & 4 star recruits and was pretty successful. Now he’ll have the opportunity to run it with 4 & 5 star players… My guess is that will make a difference.

    While he hasn’t shown the ability to develop post players, he has proven he can motivate and develop perimeter players.

    He is only a finished product if he thinks he is. If he decides to surround himself with yes men. If he tries to improve his coaching through prayer instead of study. My guess is that he isn’t satisfied with things yet and he’ll strive to become better. I just don’t think the book is finished yet.

  74. Should have my proper screen name in the field…

    But I’ll say this as well coachv, I know you don’t want to compare Crean to other coaches or Izzo, but that’s fairly difficult. If you think the verdict is final on Crean, and that he’ll never bring a title to IU… and you want titles… then you want another coach. So if you want another coach you need to start comparing him to other coaches. When I start comparing him to other coaches I start to see that maybe your theory that he’s a finished product isn’t correct. That just because a certain player doesn’t develop to our expectations means other players will notice and stay away…

    So one more Izzo note – both Appling and Dawson went to MSU as McDonald’s AA’s… Have they improved markedly since they arrived? Has Dawson turned into the stud they thought? He averaged 8 points last year and 8 points this year.

    I still am not sure why Izzo is a “better” coach when he lost to IU twice this year, and 3 in a row, with at least as much talent on his roster… At least the talent was more highly rated when he recruited it. I mean I “think” Izzo is a better coach, but when I look for evidence…

    I guess we’ll see over the next few seasons how effective Crean is. It’s not like he’s going anywhere. Besides the fact that he has real job security, I just don’t see much of a list of coaches I’d rather have.

  75. Your putting words into my mouth Chet. I never once called this team a failure. Far from it.

  76. I wasn’t referring to your comment, Ben. I should have attributed the ‘failure’ comment. Sorry about that. I never meant to imply that you did.

    I did mean to say that I share your feelings of disappointment.

  77. Geoff, the ‘final verdict’ comment is, to be kind, silly. All you have to do is look at Coach K or Dean Smith or John Wooden or any number of HOF coaches at similar points in their careers and you’ll see that CTC is, generally, producing superior results.

    The coach of your beloved Pats was considered a failure as a head coach before arriving in Foxboro.

    Dean Smith ‘couldn’t win the big game’ until he did.

    Calling a guy as young as CTC a finished product isn’t well thought out.

  78. As much as I desire for for Crean to win numerous NCAA Championships while coaching at IU, I can tell you this. If he wins the Big Ten Championship every other year, graduates his players, puts one or two into the NBA each year, and makes it to the Sweet 16 every year, he’ll retire before he’s fired as IU’s basketball coach.

    Let’s put this in perspective. Jim B of Syracuse has coached there for over 30 years. He’s the second winningest coach in DI history. His teams get to the Final Four every ten years. Syracuse has won only one NCAA Championship while he has been the coach. Should Syracuse have fired Jim B years ago for failure to win more championships? If you think Syracuse should have dumped Jim B a long time ago, or if you think IU should fire Tom Crean soon, you’re expectations are so high they have made you irrational, and it is unlikely that you will ever be satisfied or happy as an IU fan. You’ll be bitching and moaning and finding fault with whoever is the IU coach until the day you die. Winning an NCAA mens basketball championship is so wonderful because it is so hard to do.

  79. Geoff, if Izzo is a better coach than Crean, it’s because he has more experience. We won’t really be able to answer that question until both men retire. Let’s just say this: Izzo never had to deal with the challenges that Crean did when he took over as head coach at MSU. In fact, very few coaches ever have. That’s what most of Crean’s critics either fail or refuse to acknowledge.

  80. I don’t agree that the final verdict is out on Crean. He is roughly 1/3 of the way through his head coaching career. He has plenty of time to absorb knowledge and re-develop strategies.

    Strange how the final verdict isn’t out on a man that’s coached for twenty years, but it’s finality for an 18-year-old kid that gets a C-. I guess Ron Patterson couldn’t absorb better habits, gain some knowledge and guidance, and re-develop strategies.

    Crean and his staff gets an ‘F’ against Syracuse. Maybe a summer program taught by other Big Ten coaches is in order…? Two courses in which he has to receive the 2.0 in each. And how many ‘F’s’ against Bo Ryan and Jim Boeheim…? Possibly approaching 19?

    Wow..How about Mitch McGary? Pro scouts paying a lot closer attention. If only Crean would have listened me talking up this kid two years ago.

  81. This is Sunday and I am still laughing at the “simple zone defense” remark. I am also amused none of the bitchers will dare state our guards are better than the Cuse guards. That would be quicksand. This team over achieved last season with the pUKe game and the “16” and again this year with B1G road wins, B1G title and the “16 again.

  82. Nicely written piece..I particularly liked this paragraph:

    Beilein coaches in a shirt and tie, with the sleeves rolled up, not an Armani. He spends a considerable amount of time calmly sitting on the bench – or here on a stool – and not jumping around like a lunatic, screaming at his players.

    He doesn’t try to act young so his guys will listen. He instead commands their respect, they say, with his obvious intelligence, acumen and decency. No one wants to disappoint him.

    Somewhere Kartje is smiling…

  83. Geoff,

    I don’t think an intelligent man needs decades to understand how to teach the fine points of the game. I learned most of what I needed by the time I was 28. it is not a complicated game. one day would be enough time to learn how to dissect the weaknesses in a 2-3 zone.

    I think crean has a limited capacity to learn, as many do. I judge him partly on his struggles with English and a bit more for his profound belief in god. more to the point, for the way he coaches. to explain tactical shortcomings would take quite awhile as I have said, so I won’t go there.

    for brevity sake let’s use zeller as an example. what goes through crean’s mind when he sees zeller get blocked 5 times? does he think, “oh well, better recruit a better center?” in film study, does he not notice the hundreds of players he has seen score using fundamental post moves? can he not understand that cody would greatly benefit by staying perpendicular to his defender and employing a power hook? how about using his considerable strength with a chicken wing to clear his defender? a higher release point? why would a teacher fail to teach? stupidity? lack of discipline?

    when we struggle to inbound the ball, do you wonder where our inbounds plays are? are they too much trouble to teach?

    it has been my experience that poor coaches often lack the discipline to insist that their players execute plays and individual fundamentals. or they just don’t know what they are doing.

    over the years defenses have become more sophisticated while offenses have become less so. this trend is an indictment on most coaches so crean does not stand out in this regard. i suspect recruiting is a factor. i think coaches may believe that if they demand players think while they play, they won’t come to their school. i hope that is not the case. as a result we see a never ending, and painfully dull procession of high ball screens.

    crean will have much success but it will be due to recruiting, not because of his ability to teach the game. alas, recruiting trumps all.

    so much for brevity. did you have your baby?

  84. It is Monday and I am still chortling at the simple zone defense statement. Recruiting is the 1st part of the equation to solving that 2-3 zone. Does anyone really think if Hulls, Watford and Elston were Seniors in HS today they would receive offers from IU? Possibly preferred walk-on invites, maybe. What took place Thursday was a difference in talent but particularly size at the guard position. Newell, Iba, Smith, McGuire and RMK together can’t coach 6’0″ers to be 6’5″.

  85. coachv, thanks for sharing your acumen. You’ve mentioned, over time, several things you do when coaching a player like Cody. I’d love to see some of the video of skills you’ve taught to these comparable players. Now, are these guys you coached, who are like Cody, still in the NBA or have they retired at this point?
    Of course, the NBA can change a guy’s game. How about some of their performances in the NCAA Tournament? I’ll bet those were some special times for you. Watching those guys put the beat down on the Ewings and Hakeem’s in the post.

    It always makes one wonder how a know nothing like CTC gets handed the keys to a program like IU while you, having coach great players to extraordinary heights, are just…well, wherever you are.

    I can’t wait to watch those videos. You really did coach all those things to players like Cody, right?

  86. I’d never hire anyone who thinks they learned most of what they needed to know by the time they were 28 if they did anything more complex than milking a cow.

  87. it’s not my fault i’m always the smartest one in the room. things you find difficult to understand, I comprehend easily. try not to be so overtly jealous.

  88. Coachv,

    I get the Cody thing. I am on the same page as you… It’s not a strength of his developing post players. I’m hoping that an assistant coach, maybe a Kenny Williams, can take on that task. However, I do believe he is very good at developing wings and guards.

    At Marquette he did not use conventional line-ups much, whereas the last couple years he has played a pro offense with a conventional line-up on the floor 90% of the time. I’m guessing that we will see more unconventional stuff and 3-wing and 4-wings with a pg. I’m picturing Yogi, Sheehey, Williams, Hollowell, and Vonleh… Lots of long 6’6″-6’9″ athletes that are interchangeable… I guess my point here is that Crean has been coaching to his personnel, and not necessarily to his strengths.

    I won’t go as far as to say he isn’t very intelligent. I do think his mind races a thousand miles an hour and he talks about a million miles an hour and sometimes he would be more coherent if he could slow one, or both, down.

    I’m definitely confused by his oob tactics, both defensively and offensively. It was a real weakness all year, but I don’t remember it ever being an issue before this year. But here’s the thing, that is straight up X’s and O’s… Those plays are quick-hitters that can be stolen from other coaches and it doesn’t rely on his creativity or acumen. He should be able to turn that around even if he is a complete moron. It’s a matter of focus.

    One thing I wonder about is what it’s like to work for Crean… Is he manic behind the scenes? Is he funny and relateable or too serious and righteous? Is he an effective delegator or a total control freak? Obviously IU is an attractive place for anyone to coach, but if Crean is difficult to work for then he may never have the right mix of assistants to have his teams reach their potential. Assistants do a ton of the heavy lifting and are way more important than most fans know.

  89. I understand, coachv. I’ve had plenty of guys like you working for me. They ALL thought they were the smartest guys in the room, too.

    They didn’t understand why their lives went no where, either.

  90. Oh, who were those players again? They do exist, right?

    You’ve referred to them so much I can’t wait to see them.

    They do exist, don’t they?

  91. CoachV, I actually read you seriously and gave you the benefit of the doubt, until I read the following jewel by you:

    “I don’t think an intelligent man needs decades to understand how to teach the fine points of the game. I learned most of what I needed by the time I was 28. it is not a complicated game.”

    At that point, your argument had lost whatever credibility I may have given it.

  92. Ted Bundy was the smartest guy in the room.

    One thing I wonder about is what it’s like to work for Crean…(like having the mother in the movie Carrie) Is he manic behind the scenes(ask Dustin’s smirk)? Is he funny and relateable or too serious and righteous(quotes Joyce Meyer tweets..Is that a clue?)? Is he an effective delegator or a total control freak(according to Jeff Meyer, probably an out of control freak)? Obviously IU is an attractive place for anyone to coach, but if Crean is difficult to work for then he may never have the right mix of assistants to have his teams reach their potential. Assistants do a ton of the heavy lifting and are way more important than most fans know(you and coachv not being “most fans”..Maybe you should both send in your resume).

    ^It took you a year, but you’re finally getting to the nitty-gritty. Since you left it all open-ended, I hope you didn’t mind some of my answers inside the parentheses. I wonder if he has rather bad body order.

  93. Don’t know how I got ‘order’ when I meant ‘odor’…That’s funny. Bad body order could be a bigger problem…

  94. Well Harvard as we know people aren’t always the same in public as they are in private…

    I’m an arrogant prick on this blog, but that doesn’t match up well with my professional or social persona.

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