1. 7 or 100; A narrowed list is 3 or less.
    would he be a small….medium….large impact on IU….I would think he fits into more of a Butler mode, myself.

  2. On second thought I think he would be an excellent recruit for IU if he chooses to go to IU….He would also fit in excellent with Michigan and UCLA…or almost anywhere he decided to go….Still narrowed list is 3 or less.

  3. On second thought he would be an excellent fit for IU. Also he would be an excellent fit for Michigan and UCLA. He would fit in almost anywhere he chose to go…Still a narrowed list is 3 or less.

  4. I read a news story last night that I can’t get out of my head. Terrence Jones– yes, that mopey, thuggish former Wildcat who now plays for the Rockets– was walking out of a nightclub in Portland when he yelled at a homeless man on the street to “wake up” and promptly stomped on him. Thank god a policeman was there to witness it and arrest him. Think about that for a minute. Despite being blessed with the physical gifts to make millions of dollars playing a game, he’s so depraved of humanity that he has to humiliate a man who has literally nothing but the clothes on his back. Sickening.

    By no means am I insinuating anything about Blouiett’s character here– it’s just a general thought that happened to come out on this theead– but I really hope we don’t get so blinded by a recruit’s ranking that we ever let this kind if scourge on our team. Send those bums down to Lexington!

  5. Ahhh, Terrence Jones. The guy who verbally committed to Washington in front of hundreds of fans, then went behind the table he was seated at 5 minutes later, called John Calipari, and secretly committed to Kentucky. What a bonehead. Can’t say I’m surprised about any character flaw that that guy reveals.

    Shocked at how little coverage the incident has received. Riley Cooper, a white trash Eagles receiver, used the N-word at a Kenny Chesney concert a few days ago, and it’s been a leading story. Meanwhile pouty Terrence basically attacks a poor person and the story is hiding on the back pages. Terrence He must have some powerful people looking out for him.

  6. I just remember Husky Tom’s melancholic lump-in-the-throat reaction when Jones’ found redemption when he kicked our but in the 2012 Sweet 16 game(a.k.a. Husky’s “God I wish he was still a Husky’ cough). And since when do we give a crap about homeless people from our city streets? Sampson recruited homeless people living out of cars. Those kind don’t get second chances. A good stomping builds character.

  7. As predictable as the sun rising in the East, Harvard comes back with what resembles a defense of Terrence Jones. Surprised you didn’t take it further, though. Maybe Terrence’s Homeless Stomp was just something that all young college kids do? Maybe we’re misunderstanding the meaning of the stomping…rather than cruel treatment of the downtrodden, could it be a gesture of endearment used by the forgotten kids of the poorer Portland High Schools? A sign of commiseration? Maybe whoever reported the incident, like Eric Gordon with his reefer-loving Sampsonite teammates, was co-opted in to betraying Terrence by a conspiring Establishmenure?

    Remind me of your famous one-liner again about Terrence Jones that you celebrated so joyfully with your other personality, Reek-O. Was it, “Terrence Jones and Husky Tom both pout and don’t show up?”

  8. Knight loyalists swept the choking of a player under a rug for decade…

    Paterno loyalists locked in the closet the raping of children for two decades…

    Should we really get our panties in a fuss over Terrence Jones? Maybe we should also take up the blog over Scottie Pippen assaulting an autograph seeker…The Lakers signed the biggest thug in the game: Ron Artest. Steve Blake gets fined $25,000(NBA pocket change)for screaming at a young lady sitting courtside and calling her a bitch and whore…Did it stop you from cheering for your Lakers?

    Why on earth should any of this shock us? The more we present these young men as being gods from the day they make their first Rival’s Top 100 in 9th grade, each day is another day in the erosion of any character and perspective. And if they had any remaining character when the get to the professional level, it’s not all that surprising how many lose all humility when getting payed simply grotesque amounts of money while still wearing the spider man flannels to bed.

  9. More solid logic Harvard… Why get upset about this despicable act… I mean this other crime got covered up.

    So now you are a proponent of cover ups… Sweet stance.

    Btw, I have rarely seen anyone as seemingly honestly remorseful as Riley Cooper. That was an extremely heartfelt apology. If he was truly a disgusting racist, as so many are quick to label him, then I think he would come across a little different than he is right now… Which is extremely embarassed, not only for himself, but also his family, and i doubt he’d be seeking out counseling. Seems to me that he surprised himself, and hes been very introspective. He made a racial comment in an angry, drunken stuper… Thank god that I didn’t grow up in the time of camera phones and social media when I was doing most of my binge drinking. I’d probably be an unemployed, destitute, bum… (Cue the shocked comments…) As many stupid things as I’ve said and done. I went to HS in Texas (where its a bit more diverse than my current surroundings…), I’ve grown up in a basketball culture that over the last 25 years has more influence from black culture than white… I have lots of very close friends who are black. Mentors who have been black… 2 parents that are extremely liberal. Doesn’t mean I’m free of bias… Doesn’t mean I’ve never made a racial statement… But those facts also don’t mean I’m a racist… There are lots of black friends who would have my back against other black guys if I were threatened… It’s rarely very simple, and to use a perfectly apropos cliche here, rarely black and white when it comes to racism. This whole incident and how far its already been taken is more ridiculous than a Harvard conspiracy theory.

  10. Geoff, you know that Harvard’s driving motivation is simply to stir the pot, to take controversial stances, to do whatever keeps the most people on the thread talking about Harvard. His only true conviction is to point out the hypocrisy of others, or try to find them contradicting themselves. I’m sure in response to your post, and to this one, he will prove my point.

    As for Riley Cooper: I’m not quite sure he deserves a get out of jail free card just because he sincerely apologized. I do believe, listening to Vick and even McCoy, that there’s more substance to him; these guys obviously cultivated a respect for Cooper over the years that is now working in his favor at a time when players around the league are calling for bounties. I don’t think he’s a racist deep down; he wouldn’t be able to co-exist in the NFL environment for long if he were. Still, that kind of stupidity, drunken or not, calls for some serious and deserved scrutiny.

    If black players are going to be routinely ripped on and called thugs by the general public because they might listen to hip-hop or go to a Lil Wayne concert, then Riley Cooper, a long-haired Oklahoma-born white dude using the N word at a frickin’ Kenny Chesney concert certainly shouldn’t be let off the hook easy.

    By the way: the two latest NFL player scandals, the “racist white Eagles WR” and the “(likely) gangster/assassin Patriots TE”…both Urban Meyer products. Just sayin’.

  11. Just being in attendance at a Kenny Chesney concert probably had some of his black teammate wary…

  12. I do tend to stir the pot…Something else I have noticed..Maybe some other on the blog have noticed.

    Although Husky/Mariner has on quite a few occasions addressed Geoff, it doesn’t appear Geoff returns the favor. I’ve yet to see Geoff respond to Mariner. I wonder why that is..? Gosh, I’d hate to make any false assumptions, but it appears Geoff just keeps ignoring Husky’s advances.

    I’m beginning to think I’m the more interesting lunch date.

    Does Kenny Chesney sing that tractor song…? I think I once used it an Jordy Hullspost.

  13. Harvard, you’re being a dodobird again. Geoff responds to me almost every time I mention NFL, especially the Patriots. On this very thread, he responded to my Riley Cooper comment.

    Chet, on the other hand, seldom responds to me. But then again, I really don’t have compelling posts; I’m not a pot-stirrer.

  14. Hmmm, I think I have addressed MT before… Fairly recently, but I could be wrong. Mariner?

    Anyway, to address you now, I don’t think he should get a get out of jail free card either…. But losing his job, or being ostracized from the league is completely extreme. That’s what is being suggested by some right now.

    Chet, you are completely right about UF players.

  15. I guess I should have said there’s no real “dialogue” instead of never “addressing.”

    Geoff and Husky both seem more than comfortable when it comes to going more than a few rounds with Harvard. But it seems more like a drive-by when there dropping notes to each other(almost like two strangers exchanging viewpoints the cover stories on National Enquirer while standing in a grocers checkout lane).

    I guess for all my failings and pot-stirring…and windmill demons…and TCDS, I’m really pretty approachable..Hell, even Dustin opens up and gets to tell me where to stick it. And I got Jeremy to put on some shoulder pads and don the rhinestones with no need a chrome helmet.

  16. Tom, you forgot one very important detail: Cooper was a long-haired Oklahoma-born SLEEVELESS-FLANNEL-SHIRT-WEARING white dude that dropped the N-bomb at a Kenny Chesney concert. I think given a few Miller Lites and a Larry the Cable Guy ensemble,even Al Sharpton would drop a few racial epithets in that environment. Just sayin.

    In all seriousness, though, I really do think Cooper is concerned and ashamed of where that came from. Sometimes people have dark things come out at inopportune times that they didn’t even know was inside them. (Early in our marriage– when my wife and I were still learning how to fight without shouting and throwing hateful words at each other– I myself was surprised and immediately regretful of what sometimes came out of my mouth. There are things that I said five or six years ago that she strategically reminds me of to this day…) I took the “sensitivity training” Cooper’s undergoing to be a glossy term for some much more powerful introspection. True remorse is a powerful thing when you can learn from it. Hopefully Jones follows the same path, but something tells me he’s not feeling nearly as remorseful. We’ll see.

  17. I don’t want to delve in too deep here, but in comparing the two stories, one thing has to be remembered in terms of the coverage and in terms of the depth of the remorse shown. Riley Cooper is in camp with the Eagles. Terrence Jones isn’t in camp yet with the Rockets. The Philadelphia media just had to go to practice to get Cooper’s apology and the Eagles knew they’d have to make him available. The Houston media would have to go to Portland to get Terrance Jones on camera, and there’s no guarantee they’d get him even if they hopped a plane and went to his house and regardless, it’s a big investment of time, money and manpower. He’ll probably have to deal with it when the Rockets open camp, but he has a few months between now and then. Timing and logistics come into play in a lot of these things.

  18. Dustin, I think you’re at least partially right. It doesn’t fully address why the national media (in particular the talking heads on the mothership) isn’t giving the two stories near the same amount of coverage and scrutiny. I know, I know, Philly is a huge east coast market and it’s football season and all, [enter establshment reference here, Harv,] but Portland is hardly without its own affiliates. There’s a much bigger discussion to be had here. I certainly understand your reluctance to dive right in to the deeper issues, but I think we all know they’re there.

    I’m more concerned with the person. I wasn’t very familiar with Cooper other than he was a serviceable late-season emergency fantasy football fill-in last year. But he at least seems redeemable. I never liked Jones. Something about him always bothered me, and it had nothing to do with who he played for (I really liked Anthony Davis despite his rival status.) Jones just seemed off. Angry. Selfish. Maybe he has his own inner demons. Maybe he does have a warm side to him that I can’t see. Maybe he deserves the benefit of the doubt. But just because a certain kind of hatefulness sells better than another, I don’t understand why the pundits are giving him a relative pass at this point. I’m just waiting for a redeemable trait to show itself. I hope it does. I don’t like not liking people.

  19. Harvard, you are right. Through it all, you have had the command and the attention of the HT staff, which is something I have never been able to say, other than Jeremy’s lumping me in with the “problem children” of the Scoop for using multiple screen names. This thread, in fact, will go on record as the closest Dustin has ever come to addressing me personally (in the sense that he chose to offer his opinion about a subject I broached).

    Punjab: I totally sympathize, regarding “sensitivity training.” I have gone through the same boot camp with my wife. The female mind is incredible, though, isn’t it? My wife will forget the name of my youngest brother who she’s known for a decade, yet remember something dumb I said 8 years ago and remind me of it at an opportune moment. As far as Terrence goes, you are so right, this kid had demons from the get-go. His best friend in high school was Terrence Ross, who went on to play at Washington and was drafted #8 last year by Toronto. In high school, the two made a pact to commit to Washington together. Once Ross committed to UW, he was so sure that Jones would follow, that Rivals started coming out with class rankings and UW was in the top 2 or 3. Ross was completely stunned when Jones pulled his shenanigan and defected to Coach Cal in the weird manner in which he did. Word has it that it was so out of Jones’ character, according to Ross, that the friendship never recovered.

  20. I agree, that if true, what Jones did is a despicable act to a person that is already suffering and lost.

    It’s also easy to treat the homeless as no different anyone that has failed by their own bad choices. Verbal abuse is also abuse. And I won’t draw too many comparisons because you’re all tired of hearing them, but I don’t see why we revel in those we claim deserve their mistakes. We often seem to enjoy the ease in being despicable to the down of heart, mind, and circumstance. It’s almost become the American way.

  21. Harv, despite your oft antagonistic posts, I have a strong sense that we share the same soft spot in our hearts for the down, the weak, the misguided, the unfortunate, the disenfranchised, and the lost. You needn’t look any further than your own posts to find evidence of this.

    Though I never hit rock bottom, per se, I’ve been close. Technically speaking, I’ve been homeless and jobless twice. I’ve put myself in worse positions than that even when I had a legal residence and employment. It all seems like six lifetimes ago now, but I’ve worked myself to a position where I have the comfort and perspective to look back and respect where I’ve come from rather than regret where I’ve been. There’s a profound difference, there. And I don’t take it lightly.

    I find it curious that so many people are up in arms about a drunken, racist tirade by a semi-celebrity athlete but not about a semi-celebrity athlete kicking a man who’s (literally and figuratively) down. Cooper’s aggression and hatred was directed at a security guard who’s no doubt seen his share of aggression and hatred from all sides, and should by the very nature of his profession be prepared for it. (I’ve worked security. I’ve experienced it.) Jones’ victim wasn’t. Cooper’s absolutely wrong for his actions, and if he’s not already going through his own personal hell figuring out how things got to this point, he damn well should be. But so should Jones. And I don’t hear many people talking about that side of it.

    Is it because racism affects so many more people? Because we forget about the homeless and the destitute? Because we don’t care? Because a person can change their own fortune but not the color of their skin? Or the thickness of their skin? Why do we seem to care about some and not another?

    In the end, Harv, I’m afraid of the answer. I’m afraid of the knee-jerk reactions and the half-hearted apologists who’ve been conditioned to respond a certain way. I’m afraid of those who feel nothing, and those who feel more empathy for the faceless millions offended and/or aroused by a single word than a man whose individual rights and security were actually infringed upon. I’m afraid of the growing list of self-important, above-the-law athletes and celebrities (and Joe Schmoes) who have no concept of reality or human decency, and the coaches and leaders and public and press who glamorize and accept/encourage it.

    It’s all frightening for a man trying to raise three little ones the right way. We want the world to be a better place for our children than the world we grew up in– even if we have nothing but fond memories from back when– yet we have to remember that sometimes it’s just not going to be as we envisioned. But we must adjust and do the best we can. I’m sure all you more experienced parents and grandparents know what I’m talking about…

    I apologize for going off topic and ranting, but sometimes you need to let it out. I must get to bed, friends– my eldest has been talking nonstop about getting her ears pierced for a week, and how do you turn a four-year-old down when she’s making plans with her stuffed animals for an earring party? I promised I’d brave a trip to the mall in the morning. Wish me luck. Good night all.

  22. Punjab, there is a large segment of society, who are currently particularly vocal, who believe the best policy is to blame the victim. Be it poverty, homelessness, lack of health insurance, rape, you name it. It seems as though they believe if you blame a rape victim or a person with no food to eat, or a person whose job went to China so they have no health insurance, then, by golly, they just won’t let that happen to them again.

    By and large those people have never encountered a devastating crisis in their lives. So, they assume everyone else has walked the same path. Therefore, whatever has happened to others is their own fault and, this is the important part, it could NEVER happen to them.

    Of course, sometimes it does…but when it happens to THEM it’s not THEIR fault. In fact, it’s probably because of THOSE people…and where are the people that are supposed to fix all this?

    These folks are what we commonly call stupid. Unfortunately, there is no shortage of them.

  23. Chet, well-said. For a great example of how people’s views change after suffering a catastrophic event, see Chris Christie before and after Hurricane Sandy.

  24. I’m afraid of the growing list of self-important, above-the-law athletes and celebrities (and Joe Schmoes) who have no concept of reality or human decency, and the coaches and leaders and public and press who glamorize and accept/encourage it.


    We should be afraid…And it’s a honor to hear you “rant.”

    And why on earth must we be so driven to fix the world when so many in our cities and backyards are prisoners of an institutionalized form of poverty in all the forgotten and raped landscapes of walled-off streets never given a second thought the power-players of Wall Street? When do we begin to take back the cities where there is a living everyday fear and “warfare” beyond what many a soldier has ever fought to liberalize in the name of freedom and flag…and oil where military might is written in the ink of stock options contracts?

  25. If I may add a couple more sentence to that last paragraph…?

    The “enemy” is outside the embassy, but the why is the Southside Chicago streets and the bankrupt allies of Detroit not the embassy? Do we not see the enemy with their abundance of arms pushing the last of those not wanting to live in fear into smaller and smaller corners the ‘compound’ of a Main Street never lived? Do we not have the proper night vision goggles to see the decent child on those streets clinging to their last hope somebody cares they’ve chosen to stand proud without hatred and bullets to return fire at the mobs knocking at the doors of liberty?

  26. …I am not worried because BO will have everything fixed in 31/2 more years…

  27. Oh, have the Republicans quit filibustering EVERY SINGLE BILL that comes up in the Senate?

    Maybe something will get done.

    Until they stop, it’s ALL ON THEM.

  28. Actually, considering that the Rethugs are on record as promising to do everything in their power to hold back any type of economic recovery, what he has accomplished on that front is pretty amazing.

    There are plenty of policies he has continued from the previous appointee that I have serious disagreements with. Pretty disappointed he has moved so far into the right lane on national security and Wall Street. History has shown us that that is always a mistake.

  29. Chet, actually the conservatives are on record trying to block all the bone-headed attempts by the current administration to destroy our economy. One of those measures, Obamacare, passed without a single vote in the House and Senate. This year, the economy has added 930,000 jobs. 715,000 of those are part-time. Why? Business are doing all they can to deal with the crushing reality of Obamacare.

  30. Well, you get a big fail on accuracy. Here’s a clue. If it’s on Fox News you can be relatively certain it’s not true.

    BTW, when President Obama too office we were LOSING 700,000 jobs a month. Yep, 700,000 a month.

    There would be a ton more but the Rethugs have filibustered every jobs package to be voted on in the Senate. Along with every other bill voted on in the Senate.

    I own three businesses. One in health care delivery (primary), one in ‘green’ new home construction, and one in property management of affordable housing. You have no idea what you are taking about.

  31. hoosierdad, You are most precise with your figures. My own daughter-in-law found out personally about Obamacare 4 weeks ago when her job with benefits was cut to 28 hours a week. Business is fast, fluid and flexible when it comes to the heavy hand of government. “Relatively certain it is not true” aligns well with Politico and the Daily Kos. Remember to apply at the Oval Office for those free cell phones, food stamps and our growing economy growing part time jobs. Thank God for gridlock.

  32. HT, Please be advised my daughter-in-law’s newly adjusted hours of employment are no fantasy to her or my son. It is reality, truthful and factual.

  33. What’s worse, a 40 hr/week job with no health care or a 29 hr/week job where you buy your own plan? Either way, the system is corrupt, and will remain that way until more buyers are compelled to enter the health insurance market.

    The insurance business works one way: “Everybody in.” That’s the way it has been, is, and will always be. It’s why local governments mandate auto insurance, and why you can’t get a home loan without insurance. Health insurance is no different.

  34. …and only 28 hours of work affects much more than purchasing any kind of insurance(paying any insurance premium is now in peril)…businesses will adjust to stay competitive, grow and remain viable…the new economy of part time workers will now have to adjust next…

  35. MT, you are correct. No sense wasting my time. They would rather repeat their Fox News delusion because it supports their hatred and bias toward the guy in the White House.

    Fox News survives for one reason and one reason only. It is a main stream voice that will tell it’s cult followers that there is nothing wrong with being a bigot or hating people because they are poor or different.

    It certainly has nothing to do with news.

  36. My son and his wife’s new employment situation is no delusion. Be prepared for a lot more poor people brought to you by the folks who had to pass it before they could know what is in it.

  37. Chet, according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, 77% of all jobs created in 2013 are part-time. Here is a link to the data for your convenience. http://bls.gov/news.release/empsit.t09.htm

    Everything has a cause and effect. Throw confusion and the unknown impact of government regulations at businesses and the natural response is a sluggish economy.

  38. I don’t know which recruits read their own press clippings or if they really care at all about what the fans at prospective schools say about them, but it amuses me to think of the possibilities. I’m imagining I’m Trevon Bluiett stopping by the Scoop to get a feel for the Hoosier Nation, see if the fans really want me or if its the kind of program I want to play for. I check a thread about my recruitment and I see… Huh? Filibusters and labor statistics? What the…

    Carry on.

  39. Come if you want Trevon. Don’t if you don’t.

    How’s that? I think he’ll be a good player that can score wherever he goes. But we have other players in the pipeline just as good (can Harvard resist?). He better want to be here if he’s going to take Exum or Goodluck’s scholly.

  40. hoosierdad, you are correct, for one reason. As the system exists now it allows megacorporation to add to their labor pool without extending any type of benefits.

    That’s the whole point of reforming the system. The motivation to take care of the worker has been stripped from our system. If you study a little history (maybe you do, I don’t know) you’ll know that health insurance, weekends, retirement (really, there never used to be such a thing), 40 hour work week, child labor laws, overtime, vacations, and on and on, came about due to organized labor. (Side note, people have forgotten that prior to the ’70s virtually all health insurance was non-profit and there were no co-pays, deductibles, and such.) Even Medicare and Social Security would have never gotten through Congress without the support of strong labor unions. Many (not all) corporations and their conservative (not always Republican) foot soldiers have spent hundreds of billions of dollars in PR campaigns to demonize organized labor since…well…let’s just go back 150 years.

    Labor built the railroads (a Federal stimulus program just like the Interstate Highway System), not the money barons. They didn’t risk their own money, contrary to the highly pushed myth. Those were Federal dollars. It was labor (the people working and dying) that built America.

    Now the guardians of the working man are but a shadow of themselves. Sure, there were some abuses by unions, just like in corporations, the military, government, or any other large group. But look up the history or organized labor and see whose side it has always represented. Then look at the murderous criminal behavior (the Pinkertons had quite a history of violence, including the machine gunning of picketers) employed to destroy the protectors of the working people.

    Why is that important in this discussion?

    Because we pretty much don’t have strong advocates for the working person anymore. Sure, there are individuals but the corporations and their conservative politicos have been successful of stripping us of our power in the form of organized labor. Now their eyeing that surplus money in the Social Security Trust Fund (and the continuing payroll tax receipts) as well as killing off the most successful government program we have (along with SS) in Medicare.

    I see bumper stickers every day (next to the Confederate flag) stating how the drivers doesn’t trust ‘the government’. You know, your friends and neighbors whose paycheck is drawn on the US Treasury. That’s ‘the government’. Their job is to provide services for you and your family.

    By default that guy chooses to trust BP or WalMart or Exxon or their ilk whose job is to separate you from as much of your money as possible. They don’t care about things like the Gulf of Mexico or air or anything else that stands between them and profits. Honestly, I can’t even imagine the blackness that must run through the hearts of some of those people.

    But we the people have taken a serious hit. If we want our children to live in a better world then the tide of turning over all the decision making to the corporations and their political puppets has to be reversed. Their PR campaigns have even affected the common decency of individuals. Racism has become worse in the past 5 years then at any point in my lifetime and outfits like Fox promote it and tell people there is nothing wrong with it. The part of Christianity where you should help the less fortunate (the entire foundation of the religion) is laughed at by their talking heads.

    It’s all so very sad.

    Maybe Harvard has a point (that’s a scary thought). If I feel the need to express support for common decency I should probably just keep my thoughts to myself. Those things shouldn’t need to be said.

    Done. Punjab, it’s safe now. From me, anyway.

    Geoff, I’m with you. If he doesn’t really, really want to be in Bloomington then maybe he should go somewhere else. He could play for Nike…I mean Oregon.

  41. Chet…your arguments have all the depth of a single cell amoeba. Your logic is clear. Anyone who even considers any argument based on conservative thought is a Republican; and any Republican is automatically a Rethug and all Rethugs are obviously ‘haters’ who hate all the President stands for;… not because he (BO) may be right or wrong (or GWB Jr for that matter) but because (according to your argument, all Republicans and/or conservatives are…(drum roll) bigots who oppose him because he is….(double drum roll) Black (an argument whch has no logic or reason at all but is typical of knee-jerk liberal southern democrats who continually attempt to divide this great One Nation into two.

    Look inside yourself Chet- in spite of protestations- we are all aware that many of the more intense ‘haters’ carry a deeply ingrained unconscious racial/ethnic bias they feel obligated to deny by pointing and transferring it to others). I understand how hard it must be for you to accept that many of the(BO’s)initiatives actually come from initiatives that started under GB2.(and, many didin’t…and some were accepted when BO saw the challenges and then, as an American first decided it was necessary to continue some Buash initiatives because they were good for all Americans (Democrats, Liberals, Republicans, Rethugs and the rest of us who pout the Country first). By the way, just to bring you up on the power of language, pres. GB2 was not an ‘appointee’, ‘Junior’ was a two-term ELECTED President; in better terms, Our American President; a subject that fanatic, overly-partisan southern Democrats (those who for decades gave us the scourge of the Ku Klux Klan, have a problem recognizing- thus, their over-reaction).

    It is also more than interesting that your contribution on Economics (#36) gives a great insight into your passionate partisanship.. You say that,…”I own three businesses. One in health care delivery (primary), one in ‘green’ new home construction, and one in property management of affordable housing. You have no idea what you are taking about.”

    My man!

    Could it be that you are, in reality, a typical secret, small-time capitalist whose aspirations depend on the expansion of government largesse? Your three ‘industries’ completely depend on the expansion of government sponsored and financed markets. The expansion of the equipment sector of the Health Care industry would be completely dependent for growth and profits on a bureaucratized, centralized Obamacare. (Sort of a version of the ‘rehab scam now being exposed in California)?

    “Green” new home construction!…Chet! I’m too old a cat to be ____ed by a kitten! Where is the impetus for new ‘green’ homes coming from? Could it be that you have your own commercial interests in the ‘green’ home building sector? Nahhh…shut me up Tsao!..how dare you imply that anything other than altruistic motivations are part of Pope Francis of Chet’s homage to Good. Next, you’re gonna tell me that non-profit organization leaders make millions and millions while their organizations are free of the burden of making a profit thanks to Congress annd political deal-making! How dare you Tsao?

    And, the ‘property-management of affordable housing’ gig, please Chet…I’m peeing my pants laughing. Didn’t this used to translate to ‘collect the rent”. As I read your ‘Ode to Goodness and The Power of Gigging’ recital; Put it all together and what do we have?… (Ohh God, would Fox News love you as a half-hour special on the merits of “Primitive Capitalism” (my apologies to Eric Hosbaum for stealing the title of his great book on the transition to modern capitalism. Ever hear of the ‘robber barons’. How did you not, isn’t one of their mansions right down the road from yours?

    I do take my hat off to you. You are the essence of the Capitalists of Modern Day Wall Street; the “How to Make Zillions and Never Spend a Dime of Your Own When You Can Do It All on Every Other Sucker Tax Payer’s Money and Call It the American Dream” snake oil wagon salesman. (Don’t forget to carry some bottles of your magic potion in your wagon, like in a good W.C. Fields movie). But, persevere WC (Wholesome Chet). Wall Street should build a memorial to you right next next to the 1987 reinterpreted Section 20 of the Glass-Steagall Act and created the regulatory environment that led to the enactment of the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act in 1999, enabling commercial banks with underwriting capacity and allowing them to organize
    as financial holding companies; allowing them to cross state lines while destroying the local banking industry that our communities depended on and trusted; and, of course creating the rules that inflated the bubble that blew up on our faces. See that Chase bank or City bank or that great Bank of America down the street WC…?

    Just for clarity. I’m not saying the liberal-left aristocrats of the Democratic Party were completely responsible; nor am I dismissing the responsibilities of the Republicans who ignored it and allowed it to become a reality; nor that of those you call Rethugs…not at all. They can all easily be lumped together into a group of those who ‘hate’ the America our parents sought and built and many now are devoted to tearing down with the 2 a.m. after NCIS ‘easy money schemes’ ads that produce nothing but shame.

    It’s all about sales, isn’t it Chet? “Come one and All…Step Up to the Carny Wagon and Hear It All! Get your WC Fields ‘Green Listening’ Ear-Piece in the Carny Wagon!; Hear about the ‘Green’ Affordable Housing Management opportunity here one and all. And don’t forget to take a bottle of our Special Snake e-Elixir to cure your cough, before you turn of the TV”!!! And buy a Corvair while you’re at it!

  42. I actually thought I was done but at least one TTG’s numerous untruths needed to be addressed as they are falacies that are directed at my character.

    I get no Federal dollars or tax incentives for any of my businesses. None for my housing and building interests. Almost all of my therapy practice is pro bono. The rest is private pay.

  43. Looked at a 64 Corvair convertible yesterday.

    Geez TTG – get up on the wrong side of the bed?

    Chet – Congradulations. Keep up the small business operations and best of luck to you.

    GB2 – did he not lose the popular vote?

    (me 38 words) (ttg 1020 words approx)

    Super-Sized (bad word in NYC)

    Chet-Spent a week camping near Helen, Georgia. Wet.

  44. According to the Feds, CMS.gov, “National Coverage Determination (NCD) for Cochlear Implantation (50.3)”, cochlear implants are supported by Medicare and Medicaid. That would be the apparatus, the procedure, the training for its use and the seminars that go with the piece. That would be as long as those receiving it meet some 4 or 5 conditions set by the government.

    For your reference WC (Chet), check here: http://www.cms.gov/medicare-coverage-database/details/ncd-details.aspx?NCDId=245&ncdver=2&bc=BAABAAAAAAAA&.

    You’d given your ‘I serve fellow humanity’ speech before, some 2-4 months back. And, I believed it, took it at its word. Even wrote about the great feeling of seeing a tv report on a little kid’s reaction the first time the implant was turned on and he hear the first time he heard his father’s voice. (Even read up on cochlear implants, including the arguments between the ‘deaf culture folks’ and those who support the implants. Continued to think of that kids face…and continue to support the implants.

    But, also found that the sources of support and that some of the information given us about no fed dollars was just not true. Didn’t voice it…then. After today’s diatribe, not so much. But, hey!… maybe you just missed on some payments. That’s why I include the fed contact point and rules.

    Wow WC, I’d be for expansive government too if I had a sweet little gig; heck, I’d vote Democrat two and three times each election (ohh! they do already?). Funny how people are drawn to where tax dollars abound and bureaucracies don’t monitor their distribution. None more corrupt than the scams in health expenditures. Again, look at the California rehab scam reported this last week; or, the storefront medicare equipment and services feeding pens reported over the last year…

    My point… screwees and screwors.

  45. “Almost all of my therapy practice is pro bono. The rest is private pay.”

    Read it again slowly or have someone else read it to you and they can explain what the words means.

  46. C’mon HC, that comment was taken so ridiculously far out of context… There are 1000 criticisms of BO, but that one is just silly.

  47. Geoff, I built 2 businesses, successfully, with quality, well compensated people I hired. I took it exactly as it was intended. Since he did not have the advantage of a teleprompter his true thoughts were stated. He is a hollow suit.

  48. Ronald Reagan built an acting career. Every role was a business. The man was a walking script and most “hollow” Americans bought into every word as if he was Ben Cartwright at the Ponderosa.

    Could Barack ever trickle back up the abundances of all the “business” of Wall Street and policies built on theories that that those on top are willing to share in the wealth their employees helped create?

    The experiment failed. It’s not that there aren’t many a small business owner that didn’t work hard, hired, built, shared the wealth…It just wasn’t enough. The big mega chains swallowed small towns and the manufacturing sector took their acts overseas. There’s nothing left to trickle down from the heart of America’s fair and sound. The greedy Armani suits at the top their skyscrapers and investment institutions run the country and they keep it locked up in their portfolios, small family-owned Romney banks in Bermuda, Connecticut mansions, and Donald Trump golf courses stolen from farmers on pristine coasts of Ireland. Trumps golf balls trickle down the slopes of the green fairways built on the backs of his hotel maids with no health insurance and a simple Irish farmer that watched how it all trickles down as God’s natural sandy coastline is raped by America’s greedy at the top that must have it all.

  49. Chet… I had a fine education at Indiana and Yale…my reading isn’t the problem, Believing shell games, tax dollar abuse, etc…always fun to write on.

    Lord Harvard- please enjoy your vacation.

  50. Lord of Waiting for the Trickle Down- Must be exactly what the founders of Apple, Amazon, Microsoft and a hundred thousand businesses/corporations that emerged in the last 10-15 year are cursing. No damn opportunity to grow one’s dream.

    Some, my friend, are either born or socialized early to blame their failures on some evil giant ogre out there. Some just take the opportunities, thank God for them and do what we can to create some ‘trickle down’ that also benefits those closest to us (family, friends, ‘brothers and sisters’ in some way or another. They become Lords of Taking Control.

  51. I need the computer to be put in a “lock box.”

    The techies and nerds found the only scalable face of Trickle Down Mountain(soon to be a new coaster ride at Trump’s newest hotel/casino in Vegas. Gates and Zuckerzits run the country by hooking teenagers on Facebook, games, frivolous internet spending, and porn. Yippee. Nothing more the quintessential conniving capitalist than money schemes than getting the poor addicted to the toys of the rich that control the only real joystick. The purchasing power of those addictions could have built new schools in every dilapidated neighborhood of every city across the country.

    And let’s remember where all those Apple assembly jobs went so they can sell a new i-Phone for $800.00 and put $750.00 profit each sale no American worker will ever see.

  52. Refuse to get sucked in, but will add that Mr. Clarion and I tend to see things the same way, and would be my Vice President.

  53. Right, Tsao, right…some “trickle down” to benefit our closest Chinese and Indonesian friends, and eventually our closest robot and machine friends… Don’t you love how all the Indiana Krogers now feature lovely “self-check” lanes instead of real humans scanning your groceries? Those annoying robotic voices that tell you to “please remove the item from the bag and place it on the scanner” if you reach down to scratch your testicles during your self-checkout? Great job creators for the robot community, those Krogers!

    You have your head so stuck in 1950’s, it’s hilarious. A company’s #1 desire, whether conscious or not, is to eliminate costs. The highest cost to any business is always the human labor… the ultimate aim of today’s big business is to eliminate those pesky job-desiring humans, keep profits high for the few, and keep the shareholders happy. Behind the kool-aid narratives of “follow your dreams” entrepreneurship that you see as the only thing that matters to a country’s greatness lies this uncomfortable reality: it’s never been about the workers or the jobs. These are simply accidental consequences that will be outsourced and eliminated as soon as it is convenient.

    Aren’t you Catholic, Tsao? Shouldn’t you be somewhat suspicious of unbridled self-interest and its social consequences, rather than laudatory? What does the Bible say about usury and greed? Or are you one of those “herejes afrancesados/anglófonos” that, behind your veneer of Hispanic spirit, have sold your soul to the dangerous materialistic Protestant North that José Martí, Rodó and Ruben Darío warned us to be suspicious of?

    (ok, so I admit to being dramatic in this post; Harvard rubbed off on me)

  54. I love how the grocery stores saturate much of their leafy produce with water to make it heavier at the u-scan…You end up paying 5.00 for a head of Napa cabbage. Have you noticed how cereal boxes are 1/2″ less in thickness so they can still get the same price for 1/3 less cereal?(that’s how we control inflation and still stick it to the consumer)…Ice cream containers are now slightly less than the old half-gallon size…Peanut butter jars are no longer flat on the bottom(a concave bottom is molded into the plastic so 4 ounces are removed from what appears to be the same size jar that’s always been on the shelf).

    These are not conspiracies…These are simply a few examples in how we are made to believe inflation is under control. It’s how we keep giving less on the same stagnant wage those already pinching every penny.

  55. I think it’s clear that we need Tsao to revolutionize grocering in the US so Mariner can scratch at ease during check-out.

  56. I refuse to believe the impetus behind the new peanut butter packaging is anything but altruistic. Jiff just wants consumers to be able to scoop out every last bit of its product, reduce waste, feed the needy with the leftovers, and create a brighter, greener future for our children. Isn’t the purpose of business, after all, to do the most good for the most amount of people regardless of profit margin?

    But I digress. Trevon Bluiett just checked back in on his thread and is losing his mind. Carry on.

  57. When is somebody going to wise up and put peanut butter in a squeeze tube(similar to a toothpaste tube)?

    Personally, I sorta like the u-scans…Sure beats the hell out of having condescending cashiers that like to call you “honey” putting their hillbilly mitts all over your food items. It also allows for a bit of privacy when the wife sends you out late at night for products needed for a monthly cycle.

    Scoop challenge: Name some various categories of businesses that have either vanished, are closing many their doors, or making drastic cuts/layoffs/restructuring primarily due to advances in technology…I’ll get things started.

    1. Video Rental Stores(e.g. Blockbuster)
    2. Bookstores
    3. U.S. Post Offices
    4. License Bureaus
    5. Movie Theaters
    6. Photo Labs/Camera Shops
    7. Record Stores

    Sorta sad when you think about it..About 6-out-of-8 of those I listed would be great summer jobs for a young high school student to make a few bucks during the summer. That’s what online movie rentals, Kindles, and i-phones that can hold 5000 songs created..Rarely do we go out to just mingle in stores and interact face-to-face. It’s called Zuckerzits revenge; turn everyone into a nerdy shut-in just “like me.”

  58. The USPS ‘cuts/layoffs/restructuring’ isn’t about technology so much (though email has to have some kind of impact).

    In 2006, a lame duck Republican controlled Congress passed the Postal Accountability and Enhancement Act. This law requires the Postal Service to do something that no other business or government agency has ever had to do – pre-fund its FUTURE retiree health care benefits. Seventy-five years into the future to be exact. On top of that, they are only given 10 years to pull off this magical feat. The Postal Service makes a payment of approximately $5.5 billion on September 30 at the end of every fiscal year to meet this obligation. The Post Office has been paying these benefits the past four years into a trust fund for employees who have not even been born yet. This is the burden that is creating the “financial crisis” for the Post Office. The recession that has gripped America the past few years has undoubtedly affected the Postal Service, but even in the worst economic times since the great depression, the USPS has had a net profit of $611 million dollars. Unfortunately, the red ink associated with the post office is the mandated pre-funding since 2006.

    Coincidentally, the Postal Union is the largest labor union in the country. But I’m sure it wasn’t just about busting a labor union. That would be like invading Iraq after 15 Saudis attacked your country.

    It wouldn’t make any sense.

  59. For the sake of fair and balanced. The baby robin forgot to mention this bill had 2 House Democrats as co-sponsors. He also did not mention the House passed it easily on a voice vote only. The Senate passed it by unanimous consent, with no need for a roll call vote. Over whelming bipartisan support was demonstrated as the Republicans did not have a filibuster proof Senate(60 votes needed)at the time. The Senate Dems could have easily filibustered the legislation knowing the upcoming 2006 Congressional election landscape was tilting in their favor(when they became the majority in both the House and the Senate)and either never introduced it again or introduced it with their philosophical ideas. If this is bad legislation then it is 1 of 1000’s passed by congress over the centuries by bipartisan action. But please feel free to scourge and blame those bastard Republicans.

  60. Thanks Chet – It is remarkable to me that more people don’t understand what is going on with USPS…..

  61. Dearest WC (Wholesome Chet), (Old Gymnast- since I know WC wont be bothered with checking facts, I would encourage you to double check every claim here, both mine and Chet’s-

    Chet (Lord I like HC’s ‘baby robin’ handle). You really are the gift that keeps on giving. Your statement about the USPS and its viability is full of false claims based on invented untrue data that purposely and knowingly attempts to paint Republicans as ‘Rethugs’ and Democrats as the only hope of humanity. I suspect it is so because you are so rabidly infected with the ‘blue’ bug that it makes a discussion impossible.

    As I’ve stated before, I’ve got no ideological issue with either party. It is hard to identify a left and a right in this country, especially when contrasted to Europe or Latin America. Parties in this country have generally been coalition of interests according to specific issues. Thus, politics in the US has been defined around the 50% mark during elections and swings- either way- of 4% swing elections from one party to another. That is true, except for those who have a stake in the matter and inhabit the extremes of the electoral curve either way. I could care less, have always considered ideology a lie and political claims equal to the selling of detergent or cars.

    So….after reading your statement on the USPS, two things strike me:

    1.”While the USPS still had a monopoly on First Class mail service, in the mid-1990s email was born, and within a decade, letter volumes started to drop. From 2002 to 2011, First Class stamped mail declined nearly 50%. In fiscal year 2012, the number of pieces of mail delivered fell by another 5%, from 168.3 to 159.9 billion; USPS lost $15.9 billion over that period. It is now losing an estimated $25 million a day. – SOURCE: (Wouldn’t expect you to take my word for it) http://journalistsresource.org/studies/government/budget/us-postal-service-financia-sustainability-research-roundup#sthash.dOXehlyM.dpuf

    2- “After running modest profits from FY2004 through FY2006, the USPS lost $25.4 billion between FY2007 and FY2011. Were it not for congressional action to reduce a statutorily required payment to the RHBF [Postal Service Retiree Health Benefits Fund], the USPS would have lost an additional $9.5 billion….”

    3- “The USPS will require significant structural changes to avoid staggering losses in the coming decade. The magnitude of these losses will require a combination of robust cost reduction actions, including changes in delivery model, including days of delivery and service standards; changes in network, including closing branches and integrating post activities into other retailers’ footprints; and changes in labor cost structure. Other countries facing similar declines are taking dramatic steps to preserve the viability of their national postal systems. Lesser solutions will fall short: price increases will drive volume away, and business diversification alone will not offset a $15B annual loss. If structural changes are unpalatable to the American people, then the Postal Service will require taxpayer support to offset its losses. Under the current volume trajectory, and with current policies, a financially viable Postal Service is not possible.”SOURCE: “Projecting U.S. Mail Volumes to 2020”
    The Boston Research Group, March 2, 2010.

    … So Baby Robin…how do you think manipulating and falsifying data/facts is going to strengthen your liberal, pro-union arguments? False is false, and when stated unknowingly it can pass as ignorance. That’s possible. But, if stated knowingly it becomes a lie. Where is the benefit of the lie? Who does the lie benefit? (a fundamental question). Why?

    Chet…Chet…Chet,… don’t make it so easy for those who happen to have opinions based on fact that may differ from yours. Your arguments are beginning to resemble the pre-conference basketball schedules of B1G schools.

  62. Hoosier Clarion- yours is a good post. There may be reason, some very valid, for saving the USPS. The disappearance of the local Post Office in many small towns, their impact as a center for gathering, even the impact of terminating 100’s of thousands of jobs may be arguments to consider. But, to argue the USPS merits on the basis of efficiency or economy is ludicrous.

    That is particularly so when the USPS’s efficiency is contrasted to private companies like UPS or any of the other delivery companies. Since the basis of the argument is privatization vs. a government funded service as a part of the merits of capitalism in a period of deep structural change, many issues must be considered. But to defend USPS BECAUSE of its inefficiencies is absolutely laughable. Yes, as you stated, even many of the Democrats saw this issue when they partially reduced and made themselves part of the RHBF [Postal Service Retiree Health Benefits Fund] legislation. Perhaps the underlying cause for the payment is to insure the USPS does not continue to grow without limits that guarantee its eventual restructure.Or maybe it is Congress being Congress. Just like baby robin will always be baby robin.

  63. That was a pretty weak effort but you’d quote Goebbels if he supported your positions which, coincidentally, he does.

    You should have HC join you the next time you go downtown to make fun of the homeless people.

    Oh, the fun you would have.

    I need to go now. Reading your posts just makes me feel a bizarre combination of nausea, pity, and filth.

  64. Oh, there is one more thing. Tell me again how much UPS or FedEx is gonna charge you to send a letter across the country, to any address, in 2-3 days.

    Oh, sorry. They WON’T go to any address.

    Second, under 50 cents?


    Yeah, you go ahead and rely on privatization for your mail (which, at current rates, would cost at least $30 a day for 5-7 business day delivery IF you get very little mail). I’ll stick with those hard working union folks at USPS with their cheap little stamps for 3 day cross country first class.

    Why do you even comment?

  65. Embarrassed are you baby robin? In your place, I would be too. You refute nothing. And…had you bothered to go to the site provided, you would have noticed that there were some 6-7 or more studies on the USPS deficit budgets, all of which refute your statement on the facts.

    So…how did you come up with your numbers? Invent them? You’ve lost your sense of embarrassment baby robin. The site I left for you to get the data straight was the Journalist’s Source of the Joan Shorenstein Center on the Press, Politics and Public Policy at Harvard University’s Kennedy School of Government (yeah, sure…another rightist, fascist institution brain-dead baby robin). (Yeah, I’d enjoy HC’s company downtown…and know I wouldn’t be embarrassed by ignorance. Wouldn’t expect either of us would act anything but decently and with compassion towards the homeless…without stealing their vote).

    Which raises the biggest issue many have with the Democrazed. (And why you don’t do them any good with false data). They rarely see a tax-payer’s dollar they can’t overspend without shame.

    Love, set, match (6-0, 6-0, 6-0).

  66. So TTG, how you doing?

    Seems (to me) that you have become a little uhh, aggressive, combative and maybe argumentative? More New York than Chicago?

    No response needed. I’m off to Chicago to pick up two grandkids than heading to the Smokies. Be off-line for a week….

  67. Ron, You’re in health care, correct? I think you understand those are what we call symptoms.

    It’s so very sad.

    I hope you get some decent weather for your trip here. Unfortunately, it’s kinda sucked all summer. Make sure your grandkids have waterproof boots and rain gear. I did have a bear cub in my front yard (a first!) last week. I’m headed to Colorado in a couple weeks for a reminder of what a big blue sky looks like.

  68. Social responsibility starts with individuals, not institutions. We look to put blame on “corporations” and “government”; we should be looking directly at the people… starting with ourselves. A collective without individual accountability will ultimately disintegrate.

    A few other thoughts:
    – Making a profit isn’t a crime – whether through direct (personal effort) or indirect (stakeholder interest) means – although it’s certainly been demonized. However, the people who abuse position to exploit others for the sake of gratifying selfish ambition or vain conceit have an ethics problem that regulations will never resolve.

    – #67: Those now/near defunct operations are the result of innovation, something this generation needs more of. The people who benefited from those operations must use the same innovative (or at least responsive) spirit to adapt and thrive among newer demands/paradigms. (Loosely related question: Is it possible to progress in our lifestyle without compromising our life values?)

    – Folks can pillory Fox News all they want. It’s deserved in some – but not all – cases. However, doing so illustrates that they’ve become totally inoculated with the increasingly (and unashamedly) leftist agenda that the other media outlets espouse. The criticism of Fox highlights a blindness to the others. My approach: read both and discern based on available facts rather than opinions.

    – The USPS had a nice run, but the business model is fundamentally flawed. Their only historical strategies for business success have been to 1.) Raise prices and become increasingly unattractive to the market, &/or 2.) Introduce service offerings that competitors have already deployed and are better at. I only use the post office for Christmas cards, and will stop that once e-versions are more socially acceptable.

    – Plain and simple: Social Security (praised in #49?) is an unnecessary draw of my funds to support others. As a general position, if my family members are financially strapped and without reasonable means to address their circumstances, it’s my obligation as a family member to support them, not the government’s (or, more accurately, the general population’s obligation). The system is broken, everyone knows it, yet nobody elected to fix it is doing anything about it. Accountability?

    I don’t care if you’re right or left. I’m sure that in most cases we could respectfully disagree on preferred paths forward while simultaneously seeking reasonable solutions. What happened to respect for the individual? Can we acknowledge people by name rather than party affiliation? Whatever the case, please realize that both have overarching greed and power issues because the people at the front of those agendas have not been held accountable for their personally deficient ethics. An outcome is possible where risks taken by stakeholders/innovators is reasonably rewarded while simultaneously compensating those who enable product/service delivery… but that mutually beneficial outcome is forever dependent on individual ethic more so than regulation. (Seems as though ethics and morality truly can’t be regulated, at least not with acceptable levels of efficiency and effectiveness.)

    We can verbally malign our leaders all we want; heck, it’s practically our national fascination – or we can start expecting more. Yet nothing ever comes of it. Homelessness hasn’t been resolved by Obama, in the same way abortion wasn’t resolved by Bush. Due at least in part to unreliable leaders, I deal with issues through my personal convictions rather than relying on corporate/governmental (non)responses.

    It seems the only venue where much is expected of our leaders – results wise – is in the athletic arena… the least consequential in the long term. That said, I still want more banners! I think Trevon can be a big help in that regard.

  69. Where’s Steve Hart- Really good post. The first rule for building a good team (in anything) is good people who like each other. You stated the point much better than I did.

  70. Here’s_SteveHart:

    Monday, March 18, 2013 – 8:35 AM UTC

    As intuitive a premise as it may seem, I’d never really thought of using an eye for talent as a gamble before, Harv. But I suspect you’re right. If Victor turns out to be another Steve Hart– a guy with almost limitless athletic ability that never fully harnesses his gifts– we have a much bleaker outlook on the season. Fortunately for us, Vic did harness his gifts, and the gamble has paid off.

    What would be the coincidental likelihood of two contributors within this tiny Hoosier Scoop family of bloggers to both have recollection of Steve Hart?

    If you’re going to wait for corporations to live by leaders with ethical standards as their guiding light, kiss the planet’s ass goodbye.

    Bush didn’t fix abortion? His home state is fixing it to the degree that has nothing to do with equitable social responsibility. If you’re going to fix abortion by getting into the decision process a woman’s body and health, then you sure as hell better be accountable and ethical to track down the many drifters that play an equal role in copulation but run from the financial and moral obligation a fetus they helped create. If governments are going to legislate how she must live out the consequences, then shouldn’t an equal ethical response be to make sure all costs to raise that child are shared by both parties responsible? Many a father simply walks out the door to continue his bachelorhood and career without a care in the world. If only we would go after those that spend a lifetime dodging their responsibility with the same vigor our legislatures attempt to impart their morality on a woman left with all the choice and the lifetime commitment a child deserves.

    Much like a running father that gets his big bang and profit in terms of quick sexual gratification but wants none of the long term responsibility that comes along with a fast buck(or rhymes with buck), corporations do everything possible to run from having their way with the planet or the fraudulent practices that screwed seniors robbed of lifetime retirement accounts.

    Jail should be an equal consequence for those that run from responsibility in the corporate boardroom no different than those that can run from the carelessness in the bedroom with never a worry any balanced moral obligation or the same public condemnation and judgments cast upon a woman labeled as a “murderer” if she must make the extremely unfair choices in raising a child by herself.

  71. Wrong, Loose Thread. I’m not Punjab. I guess the likelihood is greater than you imagined. I comment on here like once every few months, usually in an attempt to restore perspective. Nonetheless, I read the posts fairly regularly.

    I don’t know about Punjab, but my name is Jay. I was at Midnight Madness as a freshman watching Steve Hart and Sherron Wilkerson, thinking about how the apparent athleticism promised excitement. It was obviously short lived, in no small part due to a legendary basketball mind that lost his ability (or willingness) to actually coach players with both talent/potential and spines. He became so acutely aware of this inability/unwillingness that he stopped recruiting such players altogether, and instead picked up kids he knew he could verbally berate, and then publicly humiliate them for not possessing the leadership qualities that he didn’t want them to have in the first place (e.g., Andre Patterson).

    No doubt the discussion will shift to the thread on the latest recruiting defection. So be it – with both the shift and the defection. However I’m constantly amazed at the argument to protect “a woman’s right” to abort, but nobody cares about a baby’s right to live. Moreover, our society seemingly values the rights of animals more than those of an unborn human. Sad, really… But this is primarily a sports blog. I don’t expect to solve society’s problems here.

    And I’m not waiting for corporations — or government — to solve problems or lead with ethics and integrity. (Also a sad commentary to have given up hope for ethical behavior among people in positions of power.) I figure that I’m accountable for the opportunities presented to me, so I act accordingly. No government program or corporate agenda needs to compel me to do what is right when it is within my power to act. Besides, there’s no sense in arguing right vs. left here since I believe that the real issue is people generally lacking a moral compass and personal responsibility.

  72. ….but nobody cares about a baby’s right to live.

    Including the many fathers that leave the mother and the growing fetus in her womb abandoned to fend for themselves. Legislate prison to those that abandon their responsibly for a life they fully took part in creating and and then bring your condemnation to the table.

    Those of corrupted morality hide behind the boardroom walls. Nobody is advocating the waiting for corporations to grow a moral compass. Unfortunately, it’s pretty rare sight to see those at the top of corporations that take retirement funds from their investors and squander it on the falsified profits of balance sheets not somehow find the means and the money to manage their own “individual” way out of the mess in the form of parachute packages and multimillion dollar stock options cashed in before all sh*t hits the fan.

    If behind the guises of layers and lawyers and missions comes the fancy name a “corporation” where the unethical and morally corrupt have found a home to hide, then why on earth should they not be held anymore accountable than a Burger King manager that writes a bad check to make a mortgage payment?

    It’s not just about personal responsibly to do what is “right.” It’s also about a collective and cultural responsibility to protect the rights of those “good to the core” like yourself when an entity(or cowardly fleeing semen seed) hides like the scum of the earth from their own equal participation in a bankruptcy of values?

  73. Wheres_SteveHart, Even though I do not agree with your opinion of Coach RMK your last paragraph simply and eloquently illustrates my decorum for living your life(even though Chet is certain I giggle every time a homeless person does not eat for a day). Knowing how to make good decisions is how you take care of the responsibilities of life and the most important opportunities to make good decisions is when your up against a tough situation.

    Let’s see 2 people make a mistake by having sex resulting in a pregnancy. The father to be makes a mistake by turning his back on his responsibilities of the 1st mistake. The mother to be makes a mistake by deciding to have an abortion relieving her of the responsibilities of the first 2 mistakes. Killing a human eliminates all 3 mistakes. Yet the state requires me to wear a seat belt.

  74. So the ultimate consequence paid for the irresponsibility of the seed planter (without any recognition of responsibility/judgment of the egg provider) is paid by the unborn human? How does that make sense? Beyond my exercised right to vote I’m not in a position to legislate anything. But for women dealing with an unexpected pregnancy, I/we can provide alternatives and support that don’t involve butchering the rights of an unborn child.

    True, collective and cultural responsibility is important; but I still subscribe to the belief that it starts with the individual. Harv, Punjab, Chet, TTG (can I call you Gus?)… if by our words and our actions we shine light into darkness – rather than jabbing at each other – perhaps we can bring hope where there has been hopelessness for too long.

    Nonetheless, your point is fair enough, Harvard. Though couldn’t that same chiding of deadbeat dads and “Wall Street” also be directed toward government agents and their misdirected programs/agendas?

    Citing the genius of Keanu Reeves’ character (Tod Higgins) in ‘Parenthood’:
    “You know, (Mr. Harvard), you need a license to buy a dog, to drive a car – hell, you even need a license to catch a fish. But they’ll let any butt-reaming a__hole be a father.”

    So too, seemingly, a sufficiently funded politician or greed-motivated corporate exec.

    I chimed in because, by my reading, the thread had broken down to the predictable ‘conservatives blindly support Wall Street’ (no I don’t) vs. liberals blindly support gov’t. “My side is better than your side.” Guess what: as a society we’ve allowed both/most sides to be hijacked by the morally bankrupt. Gov’t isn’t the answer, nor is wasting time complaining about it. Wall Street isn’t the answer, nor is complaining about those is generate wealth from it. And killing unborn humans isn’t the answer. We cry foul when inner city children end up trapped in the never-ending cycle of poverty because they never got a real chance, or when the disenfranchised are marginalized because circumstances/consequences put them in a spot where they can’t support themselves, but we don’t think twice about an unborn child who can’t support him/herself never getting a chance.

    Let’s take a break from pointing fingers, calling names, and pointlessly debating for the sake of taking action. It seems like a good number of folks on here do; awesome! Maybe we can do more, at least as far as it goes to living at peace with one another. After all, we are “this tiny Hoosier Scoop family”.

    I’d prefer that this family not be defined by dysfunction. I’d rather it be thought-inspiring and entertaining. “ARE YOU NOT ENTERTAINED?!?” – Maximus

    (The “genius” of Keanu Reeves and Russell Crowe in one blog post. Just let that sink in.)

  75. Jay (if I may call you you that,) I was at that same Midnight Madness with Hart and Wilkerson et al, I share your basic outlook on the desire for civility and personal responsibility– although i try to be cautious in distinguishing personal responsibility with an every-man-for-himself, forget thy neighbor mentality that often does more harm than good– and we even seem to have similar writing styles. (Side note: I find it amusing that certain Scoopsters are always on a snipe hunt trying to find the double agent, multiple-alias posters on here. I’d ask Jeremy to verify my single-alias status if I cared that anyone was being unfairly labeled as a potential violator. But I don’t.)

    I do tend to abstain from the heavier discussions, though. If you see me engaging in political/religious/reproductive rights-type discussion on here, it probably means the kids have been put to bed, chores are done, it’s late at night, I’ve had a few drinks, and I’d probably be better served to go to bed myself. (There’s a reason the Scoop seems to have a firewall up for posting after a certain time.) That, or I’m on pain meds…

    I tried to post the following shortly after midnight (central time) the other day, but was unsuccessful. It’s not the first time my late-night posts haven’t gone through, so I copied it just in case I thought it was still relevant the next day:

    “Tsau, I respect you greatly and usually enjoy reading your posts as much as anybody’s. (I’ll admit that when I’m not in the mood I skip over the long-winded ones, just as i do of other posters and many probably do of mine…) But given your journalistic background, you should know as well as anyone that you can cherry-pick stats and find “facts” to support any position. I trust facts and data about as much as I trust politicians, and if you see somebody using them they probably have an angle. So every time I see or hear somebody say “do your research,” I wonder if they themselves seek truth, or instead just look for some sort of evidence to back a position or argument or advertisement they’re already selling.

    I have no stake in this. I enjoy being a spectator in the Urinary Olympics. Usually, I learn something. At the very least i enjoy watching the competition. But to boast of victory– if you were indeed being as pompous as it seems and the satire didn’t just go over my head– because you were able to cite some internet sources and then rub it in someone’s face seems… well… petty. To me it discredits all the claims of impropriety you sometimes rant against on here. I just don’t get it.

    Others– including myself– aren’t always much better. It always amazes me that grown men with families and careers and everything seemingly going in their favor would stoop to engaging in endless petty arguments over a single issue to make themselves look and/or feel better. If your purpose is to educate, make your point and be done with it. If your intent is to treat this as some kind of scholastic debate club where you’re the alpha male and you must come out on top, I say just let it go. Who cares? (And then I remember that I myself occasionally have trouble doing just that…)

    I’m having minor elective surgery tomorrow with nothing to do but lie in my bed with painkillers and an iPad, so I may be susceptible to engaging in such petty debates. But under normal circumstances, it doesn’t usually come across as fighting the good fight.

    I had a whole different rant I intended to get to. Something about the NCAA and autographs and hypocrisy and people not being able to follow the rules, but I’ve already wasted enough time of whomever is still reading. So I bid you good night, and hope I don’t find you in debate tomorrow.”

    I still feel strongly about it, so I re-posted today. The interesting thing is that my surgery had to do with reproductive rights. Many people may find my decision to undergo a voluntary vasectomy– or use any form of birth control– to be morally corrupt in and of itself. That’s their choice. But there were many factors that went in to our decision, not the least of which is the ever-increasing risk of complications with each child after our first baby was an emergency c-section. Rarely is there a one-size-fits all argument for these types of discussions. And while I think you’re perfectly right, Jay, to take the position you do, it’s and incredibly complicated and emotional matter for everybody, and all sides should be able to be heard before (or better yet, without) rendering judgment.

    And with that, it’s time for me to take my next pill…

  76. To most that want to legislate right down to the moment the sperm penetrates the wall of an egg, stand with their righteous gun to the head to “protect” a child from “murder” and then without any moral social obligation(and that often means funding) run to the hills without any real concern to provide assistance and education to a fatherless child and the abandoned mother.

    I find it very easy to talk of having no blood on your hands when it’s by biological convenience that the one running from scene and legislating/writing the commandments(commandments that are hypocritical in every facet of the human condition…War is not the taking of life? Children are not annihilated in war?)is not holding the lifelong obligation growing in the gut while they flee as gutless the moment they spilled their “butt-reaming a_hole” mess with no obligation to do any the cleaning up.

  77. HH, it’s basically just you and me on this thread now. I appreciate your compassion for the fatherless. I admit that I often get lost in your words, though, so I’m confused by quotes around “protect” and “murder”. In general parlance, the defenseless need “protect(ion)”, and the taking of life is “murder”. I don’t disagree that taking an innocent child’s life in war is any different than doing it in-womb; it’s wrong on both counts.

    HC did a nice job of describing compounding mistakes. DO you disagree with that logic? Is your argument that a life is better taken rather than unwanted or left fatherless? “Daddy left and Mama’s too young to have the burden. Besides, the kid will probably be forgotten by society anyway, so off to the clinic.” “If the child might end up needing intervention from the extended family or community, better to avoid increase of the surplus population.” Where does that logic end? That can’t be your position, right?

    In most cases, it’s selfish and irresponsible avoidance that makes the sperm donor run, and selfish and irresponsible avoidance (+ medical convenience) that makes the baby-carrier abort.

    I don’t want to play on-line psychologist. If you’ve been hurt by a circumstance similar to what we’re describing, I’ll pray for your healing. In any case, thanks for the e-conversation.

  78. And I’m not waiting for corporations — or government — to solve problems or lead with ethics and integrity.

    But you’re relying on legislators to determine that the fertilization of an egg is life that should not, under any circumstance, be obstructed its natural order?

    And under Clarion’s argument it certainly does compound mistakes by not using every same legislative dollar spent to stop the “murder” of a child in the womb, but then not spend anywhere equal the laws, effort, and public condemnation the sperm donor running from responsibility. You’ll use your moral code to rewrite Roe vs. Wade while unwilling to pursue equal correction the “mistake” by indemnifying the woman left with all financial obligation and commitment?

    If we are to live by our careless ways and consequences and have legislatures uphold what they believe the moral code of a society, then shouldn’t all mistakes come with the same consequences and same moral code for each party?

    And if you believe your actions are all about self-determination and unmoved by the ethics and values of governments or corporations, then why advocate using government to impart your personal morality upon the laws of the land already in place and a woman you did not impregnate?

    If you are to impart personal morality through government then you must use government to the best of its ability through its laws to equally liberate and indemnify based on the ethics of the day. A person abandoning a child in the womb that they took full part in making bears no legal obligation as to the costs of raising that child in your world of ethics and self-determining moral code now imposed upon the mother?

    And if stopping the dividing of an egg is playing God or “murder,” is the artificial creation of an embryo(often many implanted in a womb and multiple pregnancies terminated in favor of a healthiest embryo)..In the process of artificially creating life on a Petri dish, are you not committing murder and disturbing the natural order of life by couples “choices” for the healthiest(often aborting all but one if multiple embryos take hold)life to keep?

    But here’s the difference…It’s o.k. to murder an embryo from growing into a fetus from growing into a child if a man is not running from the responsibility. Of course, sometimes there’s a male willing to do all the feeding.

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