1. Prelude to a Turkey…?

    Is the 2K Classic the new name for last year’s Legends Classic? Just wondering because there is nothing legendary about Washington Husky basketball. Would be quite an embarrassment to lose to that team. Unfortunate that they couldn’t convince Alford and the Bruins to make the trip east.

  2. Summertime is quite slow around the pages of Scoop.

    Be a good time to let us know how some of the former Lords of Scoop are doing. Maybe a piece that features the 3K Classics of Korman, Kellenberger, and Kartje…?

    Is Korman still working at FAO?

  3. Harvard,
    It isn’t. The Legends Classic is in Brooklyn. This is at the Garden. Also, this was put together last season, so Alford wasn’t at UCLA yet.

  4. Korman’s still at the Baltimore Sun and moved from a sports editing position to a spot covering sports business. He’s a father now, and his son is about four months old. Kellenberger is still in Mississippi covering Ole Miss. His boy is about 3 years old now. Kartje is at the Orange County Register covering UCLA.

  5. My bad…I forgot that the Legends was in Brooklyn.

    If the 2K Classic was put together last season, then why so long until the announcement? Were the selected teams finalized at the same time it was “put together?”

    Nice to hear all the former Scoop Lords are doing well. What on earth do you do in covering sports business? Wow…Lot of boys being born. Geoff had a newborn son..Korman has a new son..Kellenberger with a 3-year-old boy. Many a lucky wife shall not share the fate of Anne Boleyn.

    When can we expect Dustin and Jeremy to get busy? I hear no talks of marriage or children. Didn’t Ginger just get married? Maybe Ginger will break the cycle and add a Mary Anne…and he shall have to lock up his daughter when all the Scoop Lord boys are in town(sometime around 2034.

    Will there be blogging in 2034…? Sorry, Tsao.

  6. Harvard,
    The announcement of the teams in the tournament was made months ago. Today was just the finalizing of the pairings, dates and times. I think it was March when it was announced these were the four-teams involved.
    Jeremy’s been married with children for longer than anyone we’ve mentioned. Believe his oldest daughter is in junior high or close to it. Ginger got married a year ago, and he’s actually going on vacation this weekend to celebrate his one-year anniversary.
    As for me, that’s an entirely different story, but I have no complaints with bachelordom at the moment.

  7. Enjoy it, Dustin. I was right at 30 when I got married. I was a better husband and father for it (not to mention the added years of happiness for single women everywhere).

    For ever thing there is a season.

    Turn, turn, turn…

  8. Wait. Jeremy has a daughter nearing Junior High?
    And he has ‘just a scoche of scarcasm’?
    Now that’s amazing.

    I was pretty close to ‘normal’ till my kids hit
    Junior High.

  9. Ron, I have daughters of 4 and 2 and I’ve been losing hair over what’s to come of their teen years since before they were born. I suspect a samurai sword and/or a lawn mower will be involved for some unfortunate chaps. I’m just afraid I can’t build a dungeon deep enough by then…

  10. My two daughters got through teen years ok. I have two granddaughters I’m very close to. 12 and 6. I’ve told both that somehow they will go from 12 to 20 and skip the teen years. They are both considerate, smart and funny. Hate the idea of peer pressure and acceptance and hope they are strong enough to stand up for the values they have been raised by.

    You could not pay me enough to attempt to parent / guide kids through the Junior High and High School landminds. Stuff I did grwoing up would put me in jail today. Love the story of the kid last week who nibbled a pop-tart into the shape of a gun – was expelled after the school called the cops.

    Strong parenting and lots of support and love…and good luck.

    1. Actually got a couple years before junior high, but closer to that than kindergarten now. Relatives tell me I’ll need a shotgun by then, but I’m sticking with the 2-iron, for now.

  11. One more thing Punjab. The kids who grew up as ‘Army brats’ seemed better adjusted and self-assured than the traditional schooled. Sure there are exceptions both ways, but that was my observation.

  12. Haven’t had internet other than my phone for almost a month. Just popped in and saw this story and couldn’t believe it wasn’t made up by Harvard or Rico. Wow. My beloved Dawgs against my revered Hoosiers. Bring it on!

    One of the things I love about this matchup is that it forces Harvard and Rico into the uncomfortable position of having to (kind of) root for Crean’s Hoosiers, albeit begrudgingly. It’s a lose/lose situation, really; either Tom Crean wins, or the Huskies win, both of which are nails in the hearts of the Scoop’s two biggest windbags.


  13. Ron, I have a theory about that. I think that the relocation and exposure to different types of people, and meshing with them, is healthy.

    I’ve always tried to throw my kids into a wide variety of experiences with different kinds of people. They grew up to be adaptable, quick on their feet, and interested in the next challenge (for the most part, anyway).

    They do kinda wear me out, though.

    This is not an exaggeration. I’ve gotten calls telling me they’d just gone down in shark cages in South Africa, cliff diving in Mexico, parasailing, rock wall climbing on el Capitan, you name it.

    At least they have the decency to tell me afterwards.

  14. Haven’t had internet other than my phone for almost a month.

    That’s a lie…You popped on here just over a week ago to let Punjab know you’ll engage in fantasy with him.

    Hooskies? It sounds like a bastard child. Then again, playing Indiana is about as close to a banner as a Husky will ever get. It’s no wonder they would love to be adopted into our family. You go ahead…Have a bit of fun with it, child. Make a lot of guacamole…Enjoy the lights and the TV ratings that decades of Hoosier legends will shine upon your misfits that can’t beat Purdue when it counts. Let it be your trip to a Final Four that Boilers once stood in way before.

    The more Crean recruits to faraway lands, the better your chances to beat an Indiana thin on Indiana bloodlines. Our weakest coach in decades coupled with the fact that we are moving away from concentrating predominantly on Indiana talent to put in candy-stripes? No better time to put Indiana on your schedule. With such scales tipped in your favor, I highly doubt your bastard child loses by more than 15.

  15. Harvard, yes, I’ve posted here during the last month via IPhone, a much more limited Scoop experience which curtails easy browsing. Thus the reduced activity.

  16. Once the boys start coming to the door, I would suggest greeting them while sporting the rhinestone cape with the 2-iron….and maybe do a little tap dancing on the entryway tiles in a pair of vintage oxford golf shoes with the metal spikes.

    Combining eccentricity with violence is a wonderful deterrent. Reek of British Sterling and have the rhinestone cape very loosely closed…Show some leg and have some Barbasol shaving foam still stuck to a kneecap.

  17. Jeremy: have a nice vacation, man!

    Don’t worry about the blog while you’re away.

  18. That’s a very good observation about the stoppage in Podunker’s postings coincidentally mirrored to Husky Tom’s internet vacation. He’s probably running for a Holiday Inn Express as we speak, sneak into a complimentary computer/internet room reserved for guests, and plop a Podunker post onto Scoop.

    Pretty sad that Dustin and Jeremy have let him still hide behind that handle after his slobbery confessional a few weeks back that supposedly disclosed all his aliases to Scoop bloggers.

  19. Punjab, raising kids in a military community is a great, great thing for the kids and the parents. The community itself has a basic set of values and a structure that make life a lot simpler and safer. By their parents professon they also learn to understand that ‘serving’ and the Nation- something beyond themselves individually is a positive. Character, respect for others and discipline are part of the environment and their lives.

    I can not state how much the idea of service and shared goals and responsibilities meant, not only to my son but to his family and children. Yes, absolutely I see it as a reason to stay in until they are grown…it will definitely relieve many of you anxieties (and your wife’s).

    And, add to that the reassurance that the people around them are good people, who truly see each other as ‘extended family’ and are very protective not only of their children and families but yours as well. There is- as corny as this may sound-, but as you probably know a sense of ‘love’ of each other that is a backdrop to their lives. You will definitely not find it in civilian communities…where competition and antagonisms are much more present in the atmosphere.

    What else would one expect of communities where each member, by simply being a part of it and sharing the same values, is making a definitive statement of their willingness to sacrifice for each and every other individual in it.

    (If you need to, simply look at this blog where the ‘community’ comes together with a one factor/cause/goal in common and atomizes into division, out-of-wack, nonsensical competition and resentments as each (without exception) tries to impose their truth as gospel.

    Finally, what your present experience will contribute to you and your family’s views (if it hasn’t already- there’s already evidence of that in your posts)). My son said that when he retired he wanted to transition into a career that would keep and feed his instincts and the family’s value of ‘service’. My daughter says the exact same thing about her profession (medicine)(ergo-without the me-first character of many of those involved in the health professions today) being allowed to and I see it reflected in their partners, their families and, most important, all five grandchildren. It fills me with pride, satisfaction and fulfillment; plus gratitude (yes, to God) that life just came out on the right side of the equation. Makes me feel very comforted and protected.

    My admiration to you and your wife that you consider and work towards thinking about this early in your marriage and family life. Give this some thought when you have the babies in your arms, you’ll sense they ‘whys’. My respect (and sincere prayers it continue) to you sir… and your mrs.

  20. In the ‘Dog Days of Summer’ when sports stories from Bloomington are sparse, I thought some might enjoy this podcast from 99% Invisible called “Game Changer”…I happened to catch it on NPR radio last night..It’s primarily about the shot clock in basketball.

  21. I’ve got to say this. Podunker seems to me to be an incredible human being, of great character and responsibility, a great, great Hoosier fan who supports not only OUR teams but also supports all those of us who support the same Hoosiers.

    I say that, even though on many (superficial) issues we do not see eye-to-eye. But, if I ever want to have someone have my back I’d trust, he’d be one of the first I’d want there (as would HC), completely knowing we have some differences…but absolutely nothing that could ever damage my respect and admiration for both of them.

    I hope the recent infrequency of your posts, Podunker/HC, merely reflects the slow down of Hoosier activities. Never change…people like you seed winners.

  22. Torquato, you ignorant idiot (I would write moron, but I don’t want to insult real ones). Either you can’t read in English (that’s the comment with the benefit of the doubt), or your purpose is to seed conflict in the blog, which makes you a m….. (bet. e&g)…… idiot.

    And, Torcuato is spelled with a c not a q in Spanish.

    DD/Jeremy…I request that you follow his id and make it clear to him that the use of the blog to create and seed trouble is not the purpose of your policy of non-interference. If one can not expect-at the very least- integrity in the comments, your libertarian ‘anything goes’ policy motors misrepresentation and conflict; and it makes you as administrators of the blog complicit in the disrespect, the conflict and the chaos that follows.

    It is easy enough to match the signature to the internet signature of the message. We don’t need to know who is responsible, just that you are doing something about it.

    1. Tsao,
      Make of it what you will, but posts by Rico Chet, Not Chet, Torquato, Laffy (not really), Whiner Tom and Embecile Tom all have the same source in a span of less than five hours. All of which also known as Clown Crean. So two problems identified here: (1) the idiot making those posts; (2) anyone who responds, making his trolling a success.

      Regardless, it’s not going unnoticed, and that’s about all I can say about that right now.

  23. So while we are talking military…

    I often wonder how different the American society would be today if the military draft had not been stopped. Not talking about continuous war and conflict but the privilege of 2-years serving our country, learning a trade, learning responsability and just growing up.

    I also think the US as well as the world would be in better shape if the military leaders were the determining factor before entering a ‘conflict’. Guess we don’t really have a war anymore, just on-going random conflicts.
    Keeping in mind President Eisenhower’s warning of the Military Industrial Complex, I still have more faith in the Military mind-set than the political mind-set.

    I think nearly everyone now realizes Viet Nam was a fiasco where we lost 80,000 + men. I believe I read where Melvin Laird, Secretary of Defense during the Nixon years admitted the realization that the conflict could not be successful. Personally I believe both Vietnam and Iraq were politically driven and the outcome of Vietnam could have been different except for political interference.
    President Eisenhower felt his greatest mistake was his initial involvement with Viet Nam and not giving enough weight to his military advisors.

    Just one more convoluted thought. We the people must be responsable for the ‘dumbing-down’ of America. Example – NBC and probably all the others have positioned staff in England to cover a birth and the potential of when is part of the national news.

    Well. one more. Can’t get enough of that USAA Insurance commercial with the military familes/kids.

  24. Man, I’m glad I didn’t get so bent out of shape when people used my name. That post sounds emotionally exhausting.

  25. And Tsao, Torquato was an Italian poet — who cares how it is written in Spanish? Is Tsao a Spanish name? How exactly do you spell it in Spanish: is it 仙草 ? Let me know when you are able to regain composure.

  26. Ron, if the draft were still around, even though the influential always could keep their kids out of the service (see Dan Quayle, ‘W’, and the not-so-influential Bill Clinton) I think we’d have seen a lot less war. If people didn’t take it for granted THEIR kid was never going to war they might not have been quite so gung ho about starting wars over font sizes, tee times, and favorite donut flavors.

    Anyone who hates war (i.e. sane people) should be all for the draft.

    Eisenhower was our last liberal President. Isn’t that a heck of a note? Dear God in Heaven I wish we’d get 10 more of him in a row. If only he’d given his farewell speech as his inaugural and spent two terms fighting the ‘complex’.

    He’d have probably lost.

    As far as Nixon and Vietnam, have you heard the released tapes released from the LBJ archives? He knew Nixon conspired to keep the war going to help him in the election but, speaking to Everett Dirksen (paraphrasing) “I can’t let the people know that one of the candidates for the Presidency is committing treason. It would tear the country apart.”

    He took that to his grave.

  27. Weren’t we discussing daughters earlier?

    The complete disregard for decent treatment toward women in the military makes it difficult for me to always believe those in uniform are of such dignified and mature character.

    I think it’s a total fallacy to believe those that go in with zero values that begin in respectful homes come out of the experience blooming with integrity.

    The military is at the same crossroads/battles found in the socioeconomic competing strains of everyday society. More and more women becoming skilled and educated in traditionally male dominated roles. While men become more and more threatened a last refuge their macho dominance(whether in the corporate world or a military hierarchy), the more women must face ugly intimidation tactics and battlefields beyond just wanting to serve their country with pride and honor. When you hear of rape counselors taking part in abuse those they are entrusted to represent and respect, it doesn’t equate to such perfect mirages the honor in serving.

  28. I think the etymology of the name 曹氏津市 Gonzalez is fascinating. Particularly the thought that 曹氏津市 (note the correct spelling) is of Spanish origin. It is believed that it means either Pope or Dope depending on how you place the accent…

  29. Harvard, very valid points. At the same time (based upon family experiences) certain career paths are actually accelerated as a result of gender.

    The two are certainly separate issues but it does speak to the dichotomy of the environment.

    The military is no magical path to character development. Like most things, you get out of it what you put into it. For me, it taught me to be a good student (a really, really good student). In flight school they were happy to remind you that there were a thousand people waiting to take your place.

    I was a ‘C’ student going in. I got later 2 more degrees with a ‘4.0’ and it seemed relatively easy.

    At the same time, if you’re a sociopath looking for a place to hurt people, you can fill that need as well.

    It’s not a cure for the afflicted, it’s a tool for those looking for self improvement or a career. It’s a mistake for the many people who view it as something it is not. Don’t expect the military to fix broken people. Indeed, it might just be the place for them to act out their issues. It no Nirvana by any means (Nirvana probably has a lot fewer guns).

  30. Tsao, thanks for the kind words. Not sure what motivated you to write #26, but thank you.

    As for raising daughters, nothing, and I mean nothing in the world can prepare a man to deal with two or more daughters going through puberty. And Punjab, I had a thick and full head of hair when my oldest daughter was ten years old. By the time she graduated from High School I was asking the barber to shave the top and use #1 on the sides. One day they are “Daddy’s little girl” and the next day, Daddy is the most unreasonable person on earth. As for protecting your daughters during their teens, just remember, once “the battle” is joined, your job is NOT to be popular. Protect them from themselves and their peers and endure all the emotionalism and drama, knowing that when they get through the “minefield” in tact, you can take satisfaction in knowing that you did your job. You’ll never stop worrying about them, but at least you’ll be able to take a breath from time to time. Also, I advise delaying their introduction to computers, the net, smart phones, etc for as long as possible. And when you do give them access to that technology, monitor their use closely and constantly. One last thing. It really helps to keep them surrounded by family and good family friends that share your values. You have to maintain a support network! Good luck.

  31. I thought Jeremy was on vacation…

    Loosen up, JP. Let Dustin take the reins for a week. Maybe get your fantasy football team in order. Remora(your Rico villain) is about as harmless as Jeff Meyer after a Michigan loss. He/she provides some break from the monotony and having to digest this continual force-fed diet of those professing to have all the answers of life. Thank God for a bit of playful ridicule and cynicism to counter all the endless puritanical Goody Two-Shoes blow. I almost feel sorry for any daughter to live under such expectations never held to a mirror.

  32. Ron: I completely agree, with everything you said. My son served as a proud command officer in Iraq (three tours) and Afghanistan (two), including the first company to march into Sadr City and chase Al-Sadr to Iran; the Exec of the ‘Surge’ Corps (18th) in Baghdad; the commander of the battalion that successfully chased the Taliban out of Kandahar and secured the city. Three Bronze stars (and, sadly, the pain of the loved and honored men and women lost). Yet, the 26-27 years he has put in; the brotherhood and sisterhood he was a part of; the communities the military service gave him and his wife (she retired as a Captain), grandchildren; and the opportunity to live with those families, and grow in those values; in spite of the concern, worry and fears we had for every day of his ten-plus ‘deployed’ years. Nothing but a God-send for him, his family, the grandchildren and for us, his parents.

    And, you are quite right, if anyone wants to meet the real and believable ‘anti-war’ folks you’ll find them in places like Fort Bragg, Quantico, etc., the same 1% or so who serve to protect, the other 99%, our Nation and our freedoms….

    Harvard:… Indeed, not vomiting unfiltered raw sewage in basements while wagging cowardly, smelly fingers at those who do serve, Harvard. You would be the last person to consult on these issues. You’ve talked about and snitched on yourself way too much and too often…and many of us remember a lot of it. I’m one of those who truly, truly tried and just got sick of it. I can’t imagine one thought or observation you have made about yourself I could disbelieve.(Think about that statement). I tried, but you won. You’ve convinced me. That is who you are.

    Chet (if, indeed, the comment was from Chet), since ‘Torquato’ was addressing me (probably, knowing of my Hispanic background), I assumed their play on the name was trying to link Tsao and Torcuato (Spanish version), thus the correction. It is the difference between the phonetic c and q in Spanish and Italian, respectively.

    BTW, Tsao Tsu was just picked out of the air (from my favorite thinkers) for football season 2011.It seemed appropriate as a ‘handle’. Gonzalez, indeed for the ‘(Spanish)’ in me. Have never used an alternate to hide, as several here do.

    Mariner, is that you using ‘Rico Chet’? For some reason I thought you were going to avoid creating more false names or usurping other contributor names. Was I wrong?

    DD- I’ll raise the issue again. Should you not monitor the use of multiple id’s used t

    The other day I made what I thought was a neutral statement about you having ‘your own reality’. It meant nothing (hell, I have my own reality at times…it is the nature of our intellect. We all struggle with that). Yet, you seem to have taken it very differently than intended, and very personally. But it seems to have made you much more defensive than any importance I could have given it. Way too much attention to the c’s and q’s, don’t you think?

  33. Following the line for DD, towards the end…the last paragraph was addressed to Chet. Somehow, pressed the wrong key.

    To repeat it: Chet-The other day I made what I thought was a neutral statement about you having ‘your own reality’. It meant nothing (hell, I have my own reality at times…it is the nature of our intellect. We all struggle with that). Yet, you seem to have taken it very differently than intended, and very personally. But it seems to have made you much more defensive than any importance I could have given it. Way too much attention to the c’s and q’s, don’t you think?

  34. Jeremy, thank you. It does mean something to know you guys are on top of it.

    I also have suspicions, and do believe it is someone who knows enough about computers to know how to get around the problem if computer signature. That had been suggested before, I preferred then to not believe it…but do think you are tracking it. Hoe you do, and when the individual is identified, hope you won’t hesitate to end their infestation. What attracted many of us to this blog is that there was some thoughtful exchanging on IU sports going on. We have lost several really good contributors who have gotten tired of these and it is a real shame. This was a blog that called attention to it for the quality of most contributions.Hope you can sanitize it and get rid of some of the ‘sicker’ ramblings.

  35. Harvard, how nice of you to be so magnanimous towards your alter ego.

    Tsao, are you kidding me? You’re asking if its me using Rico Chet, even after Jeremy identified all the posts made by that bratty troll in the 5 hour span as the same person, and particularly, not Mariner Tom? Didn’t I clear the air with you already?

  36. Wow, Tsao.

    When you take your enormous pride and turn it inside out into that level of cruelty, it becomes very telling.

    My father served his country. He made so little of it. He never talked down to people like you do. He never told others how to best do a job simply because he had done a job the same. You’re so self-consumed and it’s really quite a pity that you can’t even recognize how demeaning you are to those that are in the same profession that you proclaim your sole kingdom. Let them have their day. let them make their own way..Football analogy..? Why must you constantly run interference? Did you not have your day?

    I have not ‘won’ anything. I have never tried to win you. Friendships are never won…they just are.

  37. Tsao (and others,) I’ll echo Po here and say thank you for the kind words. It’s an honor to serve, and I think the cultural benefits of growing up in such tight-nit, diverse military communities (both home and abroad) will serve my children well as they grow into their own.

    I grew up in modest conditions as a child. Lived in family student housing while my dad pursued his degrees. I’m sure most of you know the places: Redbud Apartments, right behind the big blue water tower on the bypass, and Banta apartments, sort of in between Campus View and the bell tower. While we didn’t have much money, we were rich in experience. My best friends growing up were from places like Bangladesh, Korea, Malaysia, Iraq, Nigeria, Sudan, Gary (yes, that Gary,) California, Alabama, and Hershey PA. Exposure to that kind of cultural assortment was something, to me, you just can’t put a price on. The world view, appreciation of diversity, respect, and acceptance cultivated by such an enriching childhood is something I hope to pass along to my children, and one of the reasons I chose to stay in. I believe the more culture our children are exposed to in their formative years, the better chance they have of accepting, adapting, and succeeding when they leave the nest and begin forging their own paths. (Of course, good parenting helps, too…)

    I could go on and on about the military. You all have valid points, and it’s absolutely true that we have our share of bad eggs. Everybody has their own reason for joining; some are much less noble than others. But by and large we’re good, hard-working, family-oriented, genuine people. Thanks to all of you who’ve served, and all the others who support us. I’ll have to leave it at that since I’m getting the stink I from the boss and the crying baby she’s about to pass off. Good night, all.

  38. Yes, I thought you did and it’s exactly the reason I was asking; I thought I was missing something. Actually, I’m glad now I asked…thanks for making it clear Mariner.

  39. You do know why he calls him a bratty troll? Because Remora watched it all unfold for years on Basketblog. Remora knows what Husky Tom is all about.

    Remora believes in Harvard..Remora has Harvard’s back when all others play insincere games and ridicule. As quirky as the day NoMendacity showed up on Scoop in defense of Harvard and put the accusatory witch hunters in their place, Rico/Remora honors honesty and truth. It irks the bejesus out of Husky Tom that those he likes to call trolls can pierce through the screen directly into his own fraudulent cloaked existence and multiple names.

    And I suppose NoMendacity was also a troll. I tend to believe there are some that can just recognize the slithery manipulators for what they are.

  40. Harvard, what truly “irks the bejesus out of me” is that you imagine the Scoop and its participants to be one large drama in which you play the lead character, and all developments and conversations somehow relate back to your own inner world.

    Someone should really write an opera about you and your Scooping. It would combine elements from Peter Pan, West Side Story, and of course Don Quijote, with the music of Queen as the score.

  41. Husky-

    Don’t think I’m so far gone that I still don’t recognize the tone of friendship in your voice. I appreciate that.

    Lead character? You bought into that garbage I fed to Tsao? You do never cease paying attention. You are most helplessly addicted to your old sailing mate from Basketblog. I did think it was pretty funny to call Tsao an “extra.” Hope it gave you a chuckle…

    But if this truly is an opera/musical, then there is only one worthy of the lead. That will always and forever be JPat. Long live JPat!! In the Scoop musical, his is the song of a true and purely innocent Hoosier heart. It is only Harvard that writes the score. Remora is set design, special effects, and lighting. You can be the caterer.

    Never fear, my island friend. Though I speak harshly of you, it is the biggest lie I tell. You have secured a place in this cold soul’s heart.

    JPat sings. There was a time when men were kind….

  42. (2:58 mark) “…but he was gone when autumn came.”

    Yes, that was a Hoosier football reference. :mrgreen:

  43. It’s funny…Post #49 has no major blemishes(at least to my poorly trained/taught grammatical sensibilities). There are actually paragraphs that move the eye from changing thought. It flows with ease. It is not manic or disjointed. I don’t even notice any of the usual your/you’re or there/their/they’re issues.

    When Harvard speaks from the heart, the Gods bring him structure and calm.

  44. Mariner, please!!! Some respect!

    “…an opera about you and your Scooping. It would combine elements from Peter Pan, West Side Story, and of course Don Quijote, with the music of Queen as the score.”

    West Side Story and Don Quijote are both about different moments and experiences in Hispanic culture. The idea that Harvard even be confused to be Hispanic; we would, as one culture jump into the Mediterranean from the top of the Rock of Gibraltar. Please allow us to retain some dignity and nobility. No Harvard For Hillbilly lives among ours. Harvey-boy can only be the product of the weaker strains of American culture (I couldn’t even throw the responsibility on any particular race, ethnicity, culture, language group, religion, nationality).

    Perhaps self-despising carnivorous plant group. Yes, that’s it! Self-despising, creeping, carnivorous vegetative plant group.

  45. Wow, Tsao! Funny response, and quite the skewing of Harvard there.

    As far as your point… Don Quijote and the Puerto Rican Sharks are part of the same “Hispanic experience”? That’s debatable, in my opinion. Akin to declaring Hamlet and John Wayne to be part of a common “Anglophile culture.”

    Throughout history, the ones to make those types of statements are the usually the conservative, patriarchal elements of the Hispanic world, the ones whose ancestors enslaved blacks and natives upon “discovering” America, or the ones who sit comfortably in Madrid, nostalgically looking back at the old Spanish empire, wishing to apply a romantic interpretation to Spain’s conquest (Francisco Franco was a huge preacher of a universal “hispanismo,” which he preached as he criminalized the speaking of Catalan, Basque and Galician languages within Spain). The idea of a great worldwide “Hispanic race” and “Hispanic culture” is a way give the tragedies of the past a happy ending, while at the same time repositioning the heart and soul of Spanish speakers worldwide at its European core (I have a feeling that many a poor mestizo or indigenous laborer in Bolivia, Chiapas or California might object).

    I’m not Hispanic, so I don’t have the “insider’s privilege” to back up my opinion, but on a global level, I sure don’t see a harmonious, universal “Hispanic culture” that unites Hapsburg Spain with West Side Story.

    I do however see something distantly resembling what you are talking about amongst U.S Hispanics, some of whom seem to identify with each other based on a common language the perception of similar values. Clearly this seems to be where you are coming from, in my opinion.

  46. Harvard- JPat is still kicking around here, I have a feeling. He would make a good character in your opera, sorta like Tiny Tim from the Dickens story.

    I hope he’s enjoying a beer at Nick’s right now.

  47. I don’t see it as “skewing” at all.

    I see a frustrated old man that is very insecure. He is endlessly attempting to fill a void and no matter how full he proclaims his life to be, his writing lacks flavor, emotional depth, and the natural intrigue attached to solid confidence coming from a fulfilled heart.

    He is an extra and will always be the extra when Harvard is in company. He knows JPat is the quite voice and true Hoosier fan..Tsao used his tuba mouth to blow him off the pages of Scoop, but it doesn’t change the insecurity he feels in never being equal in truth, honor, and innocence what is good at the core of a humble man.

    Skewed? I have no fear of his arrogance. He is a pathetic and sad old man that wants to measure himself daily in the presence of those so small and naive to care.

  48. Actually, Mariner your opinion is fine…just wrong and not very educated.

    To begin with, what I considered the ‘Hispanic world’ does include roots in the Iberian peninsula (some argue it also includes Portugal, therefore Brazil; others argue that point due to language and socio-economic differences). But, ethnically, the ethnic group has its origins from as far as India, across North Africa that crossed and mixes Arab, African DNA with the blonder, lighter skinned Europeans that had shifted south from Europe to the Iberian Peninsula.

    What is amazing, is that the non-European (the Moors) conquered and dominated the entire Peninsula (and parts of southern France and into northern Italy) circa the year 700 A.D. and remained the dominant power in the Iberian Peninsula for 492 years. Think of that, Mariner from A.D.700 until A.D. 1492… yes, the year Columbus discovered America. Almost 800 years of miscegenation and domination by what we now describe as ‘the Third World’ over the Europeans.

    In fact, most of the conquistadores were unemployed warriors, following the period known in Spain as the ‘Reconquest’ by the Catholic Kings (Ferdinand and Isabella). And these, first enslaved the native populations in the Caribbean Islands, Mexico south to Peru. When disease (mostly brought in by the Europeans to an America which had no immune protection from the diseases the explorers brought from Europe- cholera, measles, etc )killed millions and wiped out the native labor supply; the Spanish mine and encomienda owners turned to the slavery trade mostly run by the Dutch, who dominated the trade, and the English and the Portuguese. Simply look at a map of Africa and north to Indian and you’ll see the vestiges of the Dutch (South Africa) though their principal role was in the trade and financing of slavery; the English and the Portuguese (Angola and Goa) in the names of the ports and the colonies of the Dutch, English and Portuguese.World WarI, was largely caused by these rivalries some 1000 years later.

    So, considering the 700+ years, ofthe Moorish conquest of Spain that’s a lot of miscegenation and explains why, in Spanish and Latin American countries the issue of race is an entirely different issue. Go to places like the Alhambra or to cities like Seville, Granada, Ronda, Valencia and Cordoba in Spain and you’ll see they all look like pages from the ‘1001 Nights’, or ‘Tales of the Alhambra’ from the Moorish experience. You easily find vestiges of this phenomena in nearly all Latin American countries.

    This pattern of ‘population migrations’ west from India, across North Africa was also multi-religious. Many, thousands and thousands of Jews migrated with the Moors to Spain (and many, later to Latin America). One branch of Judaism, the Sephardics (sp?), has its roots in these. And, many found themselves in trouble when the Moors were eventually expelled by the Catholic Kings in Spain in 1492. They, in turn, also migrated to Latin America, changed their last names to hid the family secret and settled n the new colonies. Peru and Colombia in particular have a large population of converted now-Catholic descendants of the original Spanish secretely Jewish early Spanish America settlers.

    So yes, the conquest of America by the Spanish was often brutal, under any description. But, again you are wrong regarding the institution of slavery and its impact on what you describe as blacks and Hispanics etc.While it would be stupid to claim there is no ‘racism’ in Latin America, its form is far different from what we live and witness in the US.

    Mariner, as many have observed before, there is a strong correlation between bigotry, racism and ignorance. Not all of it centered on the experience of the US. It happens, in every direction. It is the product of ignorance about self more than any other factor. Will be happy to help you by suggesting some books you may want to read to fill this hole of knowledge in your own education. It is fascinating. That’s what I try to do when I take conscience and am able to acknowledge my own deficiencies before I shoot off my mouth or wield a pen that comes flying back at me like a boomerang.

    Next time, …duck before you throw it.

  49. It appears Tsoa is in a shish kabob mood. Moor skewers!!

    Sorry, but I didn’t get a lot from that above history lesson. Would this be similar to the material given to Ron Patterson contained on his summer final exam?

    From what I understand, there were these people that came to Spain in the 8th century. When they arrived, they asked the Spanish “how do you like it.”

  50. HfH- I really want to be like you; to feel blessed, secure, accomplished and accompanied. Now I now what is missing in my life. Thanks.

  51. You’ll never know what’s missing. You don’t have the depth in that 6″ deep ocean of yours. It’s a bitch being an extra.

  52. Tsao- you may be underestimating your interlocutor. You are definitely more knowledgable on this topic than I assumed,, but you sound lot like you are reading me Carlos Fuentes’ Espejo enterrado page by page. Maybe I can also suggest some readings for you.

    More to come when have time for a longer response. I enjoy this subject!

  53. And, you may be right on that. Always appreciate someone with good reading habits, whether it be history of migrations, social movement or modern pass offense….thinking in general. Let’s just push ‘reset’, always open to good conversations and good conversation, Mariner.

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