Kevin Wilson Big Ten Media Day Transcript

From the wonderful humans at ASAP, here is the transcript of Kevin Wilson’s press conference at Big Ten Media Day

THE MODERATOR:  We’re joined by Kevin Wilson.
COACH WILSON:  Great to be back in Chicago.  A lot of great coaches, players walking the halls, but a lot of great media guys, a lot of awesome coverage for Big Ten and appreciate you guys covering us today.
We’re excited.  Coming out of last year, not the season we wanted.  Maybe made some strides on paper.  Maybe a little bit better record.  But we got a great school, making a great commitment and we want to build a winning product and start getting the victories that we need.
The way you do that is with recruiting and do it with player development.  Thought we had a really good winter.  Everybody always says that, but just the energy, leadership, we’ve worked very hard with the group to kind of cultivate some internal leaders with our football team to take some ownership.  So we got some‑‑ a very positive energy as we’re working hard.
One of our sayings when I first got there was we’re going to have fun working hard.  Our kids worked very, very hard in the winter.  Gotten a lot stronger.
There wasn’t one day in spring practice that I wanted it over.  I thought we went through the motions.  We’re getting more physical.  We have a lot of kids now that are going into their third year of playing because we played 16 freshmen two years ago, 11 freshmen last year.
We’ve got 19 starters back, guys, and that’s 19 offense and defense.  We’ve got our kickers back, our punters back.  Our long snapper’s a big time player and returners.
We’ve got a lot of guys back.  We’ve got a great recruiting class and we’re looking forward to getting started with our guys.
We’ve had 130 players on campus this summer training.  We’ll have 105 for preseason.  We’ve got a walk‑on program that’s kind of growing as well.  Very, very good recruiting class, and we’re excited to see those young men.  There’s a lot of good energy with what’s going on.
Personnel‑wise with our guys, we’re very, very healthy.  Came out of spring with no legitimate injuries.  And as we came off some minor things, we’ve got everyone full tilt and looking to be ready to go as we crank up practice next Friday.
Our freshmen will report on Wednesday, upperclassmen on Thursday.  We’ll crank it up on August2nd.  But we’ve got, I think, again, very much more mature team.
A lot of guys back.  A lot of positive energy, and a very, very healthy team.  We’re unsettled at quarterback.  Got three guys in a dead heat.  It’s not because I don’t think we’ve got a good player.  We’ve got three guys that are all very unique, can manage us.  Haven’t seen someone separate through spring.  I don’t know if anyone had any particularly horrible days.  I think we can look at some stat days and say:  This guy’s stats were better or worse.
But I thought we had a very, very healthy competition.  Those guys are great teammates, great leaders, all three of them.  I think they’re all capable of winning.
I’d love to see one emerge.  The reason I don’t have a quarterback here is because I’m not sure which one it is.  If I did, I would have all three of those guys representing us because they’re three great leaders.  Until I know which one is going to be our leader, I wasn’t going to anoint someone.  They’re going to earn it on the field.
Some depth at running back.  Tevin Coleman out of Chicagoland, guy’s a freshman, giving our returning starter a battle.  Some quality receivers I think that can make some plays.  Outstanding player tight end.  I think our offensive line is extremely undervalued in this league.  I think we’ve got one young man, for doubt, that will be a phenomenal player through his college and next year.  And we have got four or five guys that are going to be upper level Big Ten players.  We’ll have a good offensive line.
Defensively, a lot of guys back.  Lost two deep tackles.  We’re going to be a little young inside, but I think more talented.  We have to make significant strides defensively.  Quite honestly, it’s been embarrassing about how we played in our first two years.  So our effort, toughness, needs to be better.
I think that’s going to increase because we did recruit some quality young players.  There will be more competition in practice to get on our defensive field in games.  We’ll need to play better.  And I believe we’re going to field some quality, quality special teams.
Mitch Ewald, our kicker is here, and I think he may be the best in this league.  He’ll set every record at Indiana for points.  I think he’s an NFL type player, and you’ll get a chance to see him while you’re here.
Eight home games, all four nine conference games.  And we’re really looking forward to next week.  A lot of positive energy and, quote, being in the Big Ten, it’s time to take a big step this year.  With that we’ll go to questions.

Q.  You guys have a lot of players returning.  Seems like you still have a lot of youth on your team.  I guess what is the approach working with this group and getting ready to take it to the next level?
COACH WILSON:  Great point.  And we have a lot of players returning that need to be better, because from where we were to where we want to be, that’s why I think it’s critical that we did have a positive winter‑spring, and we’ll see how summer’s been.  I think hopefully that’s been very, very positive.
But we’re still maybe a sophomore‑junior team.  And we probably just signed on paper‑‑ you don’t play the game on paper and you can’t believe every recruiting service and recruiting rating until guys really perform.
But we probably have got the most gifted class showing up as day one freshmen when we show up next Friday.  But we’re really a junior team.  Offensively, offense has a chance to be pretty solid.
But if you look at it, you’ve got Kofi Hughes and Duwyce Wilson.  Kofi is here with us, a senior.  Duwyce Wilson, a receiver.  Ted Bolser, tight end.  Stephen Houston as running back.  That’s the only four guys that crack the two deep.  Defensively, our best players will be our young players, freshmen and sophomores.
So we’re building.  We’re growing.  We are, though, a veteran team.  I think we’re going to be fifth or sixth in the country with returning guys with starts.  So we do have guys that are battle tested.  We have guys that are getting more mature, but I do think we’re a young team growing and there’s a lot of growth potential with our football program in these next few years.

Q.  Just what do you need to see at the running back position, what has to happen for somebody to separate themselves, or do you want to rotate a little bit?
COACH WILSON:  You know, if there’s separation, great.  I do think, Pete, most teams are going to play with more than one running back.  NFL college, whatever.  The physicality of the position, the hits as you go through the year, the pace of play.
So we played a couple, three running backs every year.  Stephen Houston is a quality player.  Catches the ball well.  Need him to be a very consistent practiced player, leader, and a very physical leader.  For a big back, he plays with great speed and feet.  Catches well.  Love to see him.  Great without the ball.  Great in blocking.  Great in route running to spread and separate the defense when he runs routes and really just be more, more consistent, quality player, very good player and good leader for us.
Tevin Coleman, a young man that’s very young.  He’ll be a second year, played as a true freshman.  Excellent returner, very talented kid.  And looking to see how he grows and does he really take the next step to be an upper level player for us and in this league because I think he has a chance to be.  He was highly recruited.  He’s very gifted.
Then we have a couple of complementary players.  D’Angelo Roberts and a couple of freshmen we’ll see and a couple of walk‑ons.  Right now looks like it will be those three guys.  D’Angelo as complementary piece, and we’ll see with Tevin and Stephen.  Coming out of spring, it’s those two guys.  And quite honestly, Tevin probably had the better hands coming through spring.  He had a tremendous spring practice.

Q.  You talked about the quarterback battle.  How has the criteria changed for you over the years?  You had a quarterback battle every year you’ve been here.  How do you look at it differently this time?
COACH WILSON:  The first year, I didn’t know if we could throw it in the ocean and whatnot.  Last year we were kind of young and unproven.  And Tre had played a little and we had those young guys.  And the difference, I think Tre is‑‑ Tre’s back healthy and I think better than he was.  But with Cam Coffman getting ten starts, which is actually our most‑‑ he’s played more snaps than anyone, and Nate Sudfeld being extremely gifted, it’s a pretty unique deal.
We need to play‑‑ for our program to win, have the year we’re capable of having, we need to be dynamic at quarterback.  We can’t be average and let the complementary pieces give us the victories that we need for our program and our fans and alums and school.
So our quarterback’s gotta be a difference maker.  Those three guys are capable, but who is going to be different and take it to the next step?  We’ll be a lot more mobile at quarterback.
We were going to be mobile with Tre.  We were mobile with the other two guys.  But when Tre got hurt and we just had those two guys left, that was really all we had, we had to be very smart last year as young players protecting them.  The amount of hits they take and the exposure we put them through, the contact, and really just for confidence so they don’t get out there and get shell‑shocked and get battered.  So we played a little left‑handed and wasn’t able to play with a full deck.
We also did not handle the adversity of losing our starting quarterback.  We led the league in passing, blah, blah, blah, all that junk.  Once our quarterback got hurt, we lost five straight games.
A good football team needs to play with more than one running back and we need to have more than one capable quarterback.  And this year we will see if we can because our quarterbacks are talented, but we haven’t proven we’re going to win a lot.  So the criteria is we need someone that’s going to be a difference maker, be dynamic and help us win.
At the same time, I’m excited‑‑ and I think the difference between our offense and defense is competition.  We have quality players on offense that are fighting to get on the field.  Our challenge is with our defensive recruiting this year, we’ll start having some defensive competition to have better play from our defense.  And hopefully have our offense start to go from being kind of average to being kind of really decent.

Q.  When you look at what you were talking about the dynamic of your quarterback, what is the deciding factor in your mind in regards to the dynamics?  Is it arm strength?  Is it his moxie on the field, off the field?  Can you expand on what you mean by that?
COACH WILSON:  For example, with our three players, maybe greatest arm strength is Nate Sudfeld.  Tall.  Very smart.  Young player, very good.
Maybe greatest moxie might be Cam Coffman.  He’s a little daredevil.  He’ll take some shots and take some chances.  Great anticipation, vision.
The best athlete of the crowd is probably Tre Roberson.
So they’re all uniquely different.
What we’re going to do is run our spread offense, be a little bit up tempo.  We’ll throw the ball in space and try to be a team that can throw it pushing 70percent, which we have yet to beat.  In the high 50s or mid 50s, first year, low 60s last year.  This game has evolved with protection and quality route running and people understanding spacing.
You have got to throw the ball at 67, 70, 72percent.  So one, the ability to complete the ball.  Two, the ability not to move the offense but to score.  Our offense moves the ball but we don’t score points proportional to moving the ball.  And good teams score points.  When you score points, you win games.  You don’t win games by getting yards.  You win games by crossing that G line or not letting them cross the G line.  So it’s points.
So what we’re looking for‑‑ they’re all different with those different attributes.  But a passing percentage that keeps us on schedule.  A guy that gets to the fringe zone and gets his team in the end zone and a guy that’s going to protect the football.

Q.  You talked about the young defensive players and recruiting class coming in.  Can you just elaborate on that and realistically how much of an impact can they have this being their first year of college ball regardless of how highly touted they are?
COACH WILSON:  Their talent level appears to be seeing some of them in person myself as gifted as many guys we’ve been playing with.  Watching them, whether it be a camp, watching them in person.
Now, again, since T.J. Simmons is the only one that’s been here because he graduated early, that we saw, quote, lift, run, workout, practice, that’s going to be a two‑deep impact player at linebacker.  Young man from Lakeland, Florida.
15 of those recruits are on defense.  The skill set’s pretty good on defense.  We promised no one you’re going to play and start.  But I think we’ll have competition.
I think some of those young “D” linemen are going to give us competition and depth.  And I think the linebackers, which we need to be significantly better at linebacker, are going to give us some competition, and I’m really excited about the corner and safety guys.
I think a lot of those guys are going to be, if not two deep, fringe two deep, we’ll see when the bullets start flying some of those guys get on the field.  My inclination says you’ll probably see some of those guys on the field.  Might be some growing pains, but we’ll be growing with guys that are faster and more talented.  That’s exciting to me.
THE MODERATOR:  Thank you.


  1. I absolutely love CKW’s frankness when discussing this team and the direction of the program. He has pulled no punches since Day 1 (ask Jack Francis Trudeau if he was expecting CKW to read him the riot act for disrespecting IU on air prior to an interview a couple years back.) AD Glass and the University are in full support. With a favorable home schedule, this young team will take the step from knowing they can compete in the B1G to knowing they can win in the B1G. A lot of comments bemoan the 3 star kids who are giving verbals.
    Latimer was a 3 star, as was Black Jr., and the Replogles. Heban was a basball player, so I’m guessing he wasn’t even a 3 star. Each of these guys can/do play at the next level. My point is the recruiting service gurus aren’t omniscient. Strap ’em up boys, get into and out of camp healthy and make some noise this fall.

    Go Hoosiers.

  2. After what Hoosier fans witnessed with VO’s ranking out of High School and his development and performance at IU, I’m surprised any Hoosier fan places any significance on the number of stars that have been assigned to a recruit by these so called recruiting service experts. And if I remember correctly, wasn’t a former High School QB from Columbus, IN rated as the best “pro-style QB” in the country when he was in High School. He will not have played one snap of college football in his first two years of eligibility. A lot can change between a young man’s Junior year in High School and his freshman year in college. I trust that Wilson and staff are recruiting and signing, bigger, stronger, faster and better talent for IU’s football team. And I trust that the players they’re recruiting are suited for the program they coach. But until Wilson leads the team to a winning season, it’s all speculation, no matter what any “expert” has to say.

  3. Yes there is that example and this example about some player successes….that equals 3 or 4 wins and 7 or 8 loss seasons…..but you have to play percentages and you still need some 4 star recruits (for IU in big ten 4 or 5 per year) unless your goal is going to try to play in the motor city bowl or something like that against a mac team…oh I forgot IU lost to Ball State the last two times they played.

  4. I just want to see those god-awful helmets and have a bit of a chuckle(oops..Did I say chuckle..I meant to say a grin beaming with pride). Beyond that, how can anyone have too high of expectations for IU football or judge this coach any differently than the last half dozen that have so valiantly tried to get Hoosier fans to adopt the ugly duckling of IU sports.

    And Crean has the nerve to pretend anyone could have “wrecked” IU basketball…? Indiana is bubbling over with high school basketball talent. Every football coach that comes to Bloomington is starting from scratch in a state that produces very little top football prospects. In basketball, you need a strong first seven on the roster..In football, you need a strong first 37 on the roster.

    Let’s remember..To have “wrecked” something means there was something of value from the beginning. Crean pretends to support Wilson, but his antics and blabbering claims of people that “wrecked” the basketball program six years after he took on of the best jobs in the country is completely delusional and disrespectful of the far more monumental task a football coach at Indiana attempting to build a competitive Big 10 program; a task with almost zilch limelight and zero building blocks of tradition.

    Wilson takes on the job in the better frame of mind…He blames no one for the past ineptitude(neither coaches or one-track mind fans). He looks forward and positive.

    Anyone that takes the IU basketball job and wants to still play a blame game six years after his hire date over someone that he wants to believe decimated our statewide love for Hoosier basketball and a reputation five banners deep is nothing but a fat opportunist with no appreciation the great young men that have worn the uniform through just as many a Bobby Knight tyrannical and roller coaster past. You take the good and the bad and you look forward…You be your own man and build Indiana around the strength your convictions rather than the failings of a weaker cheat or abuser.

  5. Harvard, you know your 4Guards.. You know your Darren. You know your Reggie. You my friend are dysfunctional. Your a joke, along with Geoff. Geoff thinks he knows everything, but in reality don’t know himself at all. So full of crap! I hope you 2 fall in a sinkhole.

  6. I used to riddle Chet, now I respect Chet. I made life for Chet hard on here. Though all that, your still Rico Chet!

  7. With no inside info available to me I think Sudfeld with a solid camp will emerge as the #1 QB, TR as 1A if his passing improves from the Spring and plans will be for Cofffman to redshirt. When I heard Wilson refrained from starting him last season for fear of scarring him by playing him to early has helped develop my thoughts about the QB competition. Coach Wilson will use the best available options for QB to win games.

  8. …and if we thought the “11” season was tough on the previous staffs starters, lettermen and upper classmen…wait till this season…of the 130 players who have stayed in Bloomington to train only 105 can be invited to camp and Wilson has stated some of the 25 not invited will be lettermen(Antonio Marshall is already gone)…welcome to the “big time”…

  9. Prior to the internet being available in every household & gazillions of recruiting “experts” sounding off on 2,3,4 or 5 star talents I wonder how we ever got a team together on the field? Yes, yes, I know IU hasn’t had much to cheer about in football over the years but here and there IU has put together good teams. Corso’s Holiday Bowl team, 4-5 of Bill Mallory’s teams, Terry Hoeppner’s emergence as a coach who could have turned things around in B-town are just some examples. Coaching is more about getting the right player into the right position onto the field at the right time. That happens in practice. CKW talks about body type & what they can do with a so-called 3 star talent. Jason Spriggs at LOT is a prime example. I believe he was a 3 star TE recruit & was excellent as a freshman holding down that left tackle position. I, too, am interested in a players rating but it isn’t the whole picture. I trust the coaching staff to identify B10 talent that can help IU. Go Hoosiers, can’t wait for the season to begin.

  10. Yeah, the star ratings are frequently influenced by which schools are recruiting the candidate and that can in turn be influenced by any number of factors, some of which unrelated to talent. So, stars are not all that important and whoever made the comment that athletes develop at varying rates is also spot on. The talent level at IU has grown dramatically under Coach Wilson and staff, particularly on offense but we are also beginning to see some defensive talent as well (and remember, building a defense is harder).

  11. @Harvard For Hillbillies

    This is an IU FOOTBALL article. Why are you talking about Crean? You seem bitter. I don’t know any other person that would claim that the basketball program wasn’t “wrecked” when he came in. You may not like his style, but the program is back where it should be after years of mediocrity.

  12. Dapper Dan, the answer to your question is that “Harvard” suffers from a chronic case of Tom Crean Derangement Syndrome (a.k.a., TCDS). In fact, Harvard may be “patient zero” for this newly discovered condition. You may be new to The Scoop, but those of us with some history have had to tolerate Harvard’s pathology for quite a while. He simply can not refrain from writing derogatory, disrespectful and critical comments about Tom Crean, regardless of the subject of the string. It’s completely irrational, somehow stimulated any time Crean expresses his faith, and produces enormous volumes of articulate but irrelevant rant. Best advice, ignore Harvard’s posts and focus on legitimate IU sports news and comments. But be careful, Harvard is know to post comments using a multitude of different screen names.

  13. Beyond that, how can anyone have too high of expectations for IU football or judge this coach(Wilson) any differently than the last half dozen(football coaches) that have so valiantly tried to get Hoosier fans to adopt the ugly duckling of IU sports.

    Every football coach that comes to Bloomington is starting from scratch in a state that produces very little top football prospects. In basketball, you need a strong first seven on the roster..In football, you need a strong first 37 on the roster.

    ….far more monumental task a football coach at Indiana attempting to build a competitive Big 10(football) program; a task with almost zilch limelight and zero building blocks of tradition(football).

    Wilson(football coach) takes on the job in the better frame of mind…He blames no one for the past ineptitude(neither coaches or one-track mind fans). He looks forward and positive.

    You take the good and the bad and you look forward…(something I believe coach Wilson does)You be your own man and build Indiana around the strength your convictions rather than the failings of a weaker cheat or abuser.


    1. The post had a lot to do about football..It was carrying forward the viewpoints and perspectives regarding coach Wilson in Keith’s post #1..I believe Keith also likes the way Wilson is no-nonsense and looks to the future rather than blaming past events or past mismanagement or wrong hires.

    2. Wilson’s style is in great contrast to the villain chaser/rear view mirror chaser/Bobby chaser/ex-Sampson assistant coach chaser I see running our basketball program.

    3. Wilson doesn’t just say uplifting blow at a podium..He carries himself as a man comfortable and confident in his own skin. He needs no reaffirmation and doesn’t make his name bigger by tearing down others(whether that be student/athletes that abused scholarship status or an ex-coach that was corrupted or incompetent).

    4. My post was a study in contrasts between Wilson and Crean.

    Crean is a man always needing a movable target to place in front his many erratic shots at success. He constructs reasons after his results.

    Wilson is a man that can live with his own accuracy and if the arrow of his efforts go astray and don’t find center, he will only blame the man(himself) holding the bow. He doesn’t need a movable target to blame.

    5. Many see Crean as an inherently positive vehicle because of his statements/attachments to faith and because he preached about the great Indiana name when he accepted the job after the program was in a dark hour(IU basketball has never been wrecked). But I truly don’t believe he is a content and positive man at the core.

    I believe Wilson, our football coach, emanates a quieter confidence(maybe even a man of more faith) and is less fearful and far less concerned with what others think of him. To chase people(whether it be inept past administrators, misguided young men that fouled up their chance to wear the uniform, crooked ex-coaches, incompetent ex-coaches, or legendary banner-hanging ex-coaches) speaks of a man in dire need of acceptance and reaffirmation. And I see constantly needing others to know that you’re constantly chasing Jesus as much of the same chasing.

  14. Forgot my customary YouTube clip…Let me set it up.

    It’s a football clip…Coach Wilson is the entire Chicago Bears team(darn). The winner in this clip is Tom Crean(played by Tim Tebow).

  15. Harvard, what comes out of all your posts is that you are even more obsessed with a certain past than you claim Tom Crean is.

    On another note, even though it is borne out of a comparison to Crean (Crean being a subject you can’t live without), I like your assessment of Wilson. Refreshing to see you say something positive about IU football, however it comes about.

  16. You’re wrong about past obsessions…

    I have a bright vision for Indiana basketball and the future I can live without is Crean Valvoline.

  17. Speaking of football…The new Bears coach looks very no-nonsense. Sorta reminds me of a budding Bill Walsh. We may finally be able to witness a Jay Cutler function within an offense that can be as dynamic his talents.

  18. “…doesn’t make his name bigger by tearing down others…”

    Until you, as usual, identified CTC as your intended target that sounded like it was referring to Bobby K.

    I like everything that’s going on with the football program right now. When BL was interviewed it looked and sounded like they were introducing the new pharmacist at the Bloomington Rite Aid. The players could have been his pharmacy techs from the look of most of them. It used to be enough to keep the fans happy if we’d field 5-6 Big Ten caliber players. Now we’re talking about actually being 2 deep with size and skill.

    There’s even real competition in practice for the first time since, what, Jim Thorpe coached the backfield (this is true, JT was once our backfield coach)?

    We’re gonna be a good football program. BL is gonna be a good administrator. Everyone will be where they belong.

  19. Spot on Chet. You know my stance on Lynch. I have no comp,aunts about Wilson. Seems very comfortable in his skin.

  20. Its very interesting that the Bears went with a CFL coach. But a talented one, it seems. Intriguing. Firing Lovie Smith after such a successful run was somewhat moronic. We’ll see how it goes.

  21. I thought firing Lovie was a mistake. I thought giving up on Dave W was a mistake too though.

  22. I think firing Lovie was a mistake, too, kinda like when the Sonics fired George Karl or the Chargers fired Marty Schottenheimer. Bold moves by the respective GMs. I wish the Bears the best, though Cutler certainly doesn’t seem like the type of guys whose back you can throw the franchise upon and let loose.

  23. I liked Lovie but I just didn’t see him as having enough fire in his belly.

    Mike Ditka was to the Chicago Bears a Bobby Knight to the Indiana Hoosiers. Jay Cutler is “our everything hinges on” QB that is supposed to give the Bears their rebirth into Super Bowl contention. But the buzz that came with the signing the best QB the Bears have had since Jim McMahon has lost a lot of its oomph.

    There a lot of parallels to Hoosier basketball and Bears football. Both have recently found players that were looked at as “savior” recruits/acquisitions(Cody & Cutler)…Both are franchises/programs still searching for vision though many years have past since the legendary coach that epitomized the toughness/name on the jersey has long departed. The Monster of the Midway defined the NFC…much like the Hoosiers were once the college basketball dynasty perceived as the Monsters of the Midwest in hoops. Do you emulate the style of the “legendary coach”? Do you chase the past or reinvent the name with leaders/coaches that can be comfortable and confident in their own style? Were the Bears fans going to ever be comfortable with the laid-back style of Lovie? Winning a Super Bowl or hanging the next banner could put to rest so many shadows and doubts.

    I wish I could wholly believe Cutler and a new coach will return the Bears to glory. How far do we go with Cody and the Movement under the coaching of a Bobby Knight? Cutler and Peppers and Urlacher under the coaching of a Mike Ditka? But does a soft kid like Cody ever play for a Bobby Knight? And does a whiny brat like Cutler ever give up his control and limelight to a Mike Ditka?

  24. BL will find more peace as an administrator. I’m sure Depauw won’t be too stressful but he’s an administrator.

  25. Did I ever see Lovie grab a player by his jersey and get in his face for a untimely fumble..a missed block..or a lazy tackling effort? Never. Do I want a bit of Bears brawn with my brainy sideline clipboard clutcher? Yup…I must admit that I want to see a bit of Halas and Ditka.

    Do I want clapping at every Hoosier that follows my every instruction…or do I want the occasional kicking in the shin and cussing out of a Hoosier not being as defensively tough on the hardwood as a Dick Butkus hunting down a ball carrier? Will I always want a bit of Bobby in my candy-stripes? Hoosier and candy-stripes seem so naturally soft and wimpy by name anyway..We’re not Wolverines or Bears or Spartans. We wear pants that look as cute and friendly the circus clown on stilts. How did we ever become feared? How did those stripes ever instill fear in reporters and adversary coaches but yet command a respect? Personally, I liked a bit of mean SOB in my candy-stripes. I liked a bit of hell raising more than trying to get into heaven..I liked it in my Hoosiers built primarily with rosters of Midwest talent and the grit of Indiana kids once brought up on a one class high school tournament system where work ethic, quirky talents that don’t necessarily translate to the all-encompassing NBA superstar athlete, and solid, well-taught fundamentals could make for once-in-a-generation Cinderella dreams come true…I liked it in my old Hoosier banners of Benson and Alford and Turner and Tolbert…and I liked it in my honest, hard working, blue collar Bears of Singletary and Sayers and Monsters gone by. But, hey…I digress in this so-called contrast of loves.

  26. He IS the HC at DePauw and he will do fine just as he did as HC at Butler. It is his 2nd stint in Greencastle. D111 is his level. His administrative days are probably over.

  27. Harvard, you are regressing once again into the telltale territory of the ignorant sportsfan: “coach demeanor analysis.” Not saying I’m much better or don’t do the same thing once in a while. But if there ever were a signature behavior of the armchair quarterback who knows little of what is actually happening on the field/court, it would be judging a coach based on how his face contorts, the rhythm of his clapping, the perceived frequency of his “stern comments” after a player screws up.

    Winning and losing is all that matters. Demeanor is what us silly sportsfans turn to when things aren’t working out, and we need an easy scapegoat. Bellicheck wins a Super Bowl with his calm disposition, and its considered a virtue. Lovie “only ” makes the playoffs every year and his calmness is a weakness. Knight’s meanness is admirable when things are going well. But “maybe he takes it too far” is a common whisper amongst fans during his playoff failures of his final 7 years.

    A few years ago, Seattle sports fans got tired of Ichiro, one of the hardest-working, consistent players of the last two decades. As you’d expect, once people decided they wanted him out, his personality became the first target. “Look how pouty he looks when he strikes out!” “Look at him sitting in the dugout, all smug and everything!” “His face obviously shows disgust with his teammates” etc etc. Meanwhile, Ichiro was being the same old Ichiro, showing up to work everyday, taking the game serious like he always did.

  28. We’ll see.

    Harvard, I’m actually pretty lean with a 32 inch waist and a total cholesterol, as of last week, of 144. I almost never wear athletic shoes unless I’m actually playing a sport/game that requires them.

    I’m usually shod in some sort of boot: hiking, work, motorcycle, etc. If my wife will tolerate it I’ll wear cowboy boots for more formal affairs (she usually does as she wears cowboy boots most of the time).

    I don’t believe I own any plaid other than some flannel sleeping pants (i.e. ‘jammies’).

    I’d be careful about encouraging Bobby K. to aspire to any greater delusions than any he may, or may not, have now.

  29. Mariner-

    How can I forget the many times on Basketblog that you ripped on Cutler for nothing other than his demeanor. How quickly you forget the “ignorant” sports fan in the mirror. Without persecuting you further with cut-and-paste examples over your same issues to judge men too simply, I will concede that I am a sucker for authenticity…And often what I see in Cutler is talent wasted because it is in conflict with resolve, confidence, and desire to lead. I see far more talent than a Jim McMahon. I see far less examples on the field of a QB that can do much beyond the talent.

    And I’m not just talking about the nonverbal signals.
    When middle-aged men are chasing around ex-coaches six years after taking a job, publicly condemning them for wrecking a program you were handed the reins to, it speaks far more than pacing, clapping, contorting the face, or pouting. It speaks of a man seeking validation. It speaks of a man manufacturing demons to manipulate perceptions and prop himself up. Are the demons really there? I don’t think so. Demeanor is how we all fight the inner demons and contain the inner exaltation. Some care far less about public perception those actions than others. Some are comfortable enough in their own skin and abilities to not give a damn.

    But when a coach opens his mouth(or tweets himself into Joyce jello) there is far more evidence to match up what the eye can be deceived; is there truth and confidence in the trade his profession or is there only hollow blow hiding incompetence underneath the visual act…Is there nothing other than stage acting. Bob Knight was far more than the stage acting and chair tossing. Three banners to go along with graduation rates that would put many an Ivy League school in envy. I don’t believe Crean has a natural “demeanor”. I think it’s all manufactured to be someone other than himself.

    The stage is his Crean’s trade more than the game itself. The coaching is merely a script with a clueless ever-changing demeanor for every scene a clueless game. And every time I watch the Hoosiers play under Crean, I see him as the star performer in a B-rate film with zero plot. Rarely a gutty comeback…Rarely a huge surprise in the storyline. Rarely direction…Rarely a true tear of sentimentality that makes its way through the lens. Just a lot of bad acting and special effects.

    Oops..I digress again. Let me finish by saying…

    Go Hoosier football!! Go chrome helmets!!

  30. Chet-

    I was just kidding around…Saw that on SNL a couple weeks ago and thought it was funny as hell(not as funny as “DJesus Uncrossed,” of course). Did you not think “DJesus Uncrossed” was hilarious? I loved the SNL cast member that played the role of Brad Pitt…Lord, that was funny…

    I’m actually more the New Balance geek(though I have gone more stripes than plaid lately). I play hoops in a 15-year-old pair of New Balance shoes…Never thought it was about the shoes.

  31. Harvard: please see line #2 in post #33. Here’s a refreshed in case you can’t find it:

    Not saying I’m much better or don’t do the same thing once in a while.

  32. The problem with my beloved Chicago Bears is not the head coach, it’s the owner. The Bears will never be a top level NFL franchise until the McCaskey family sells the team. Unfortunately, unlike most NFL owners, the Bears are the primary source of income for the McCaskey family. NFL teams should be owned by people with Billions, where any profit the team generates is pocket change relative to the owners’ total wealth. I believe I once read that Mrs. McCaskey was the “poorest” owner in the NFL. She is, from all accounts, a very nice and honorable person, but she and her family do not have the money necessary to remain competitive in today’s NFL.

    And whoever agreed to accept the plan for the remodeled Soldier Field was an idiot. While an attractive stadium in a great location, it only holds about 55,000 people and is one of the smallest stadiums in the NFL. In Chicago, arguably the largest and most passionate NFL market in the country, to play in a stadium that only holds 55,000 people is an expensive joke, costing the McCaskey family a lot of revenue. The Bears could sell out every game in a stadium with twice that capacity. It’s really a shame, because the great fans of Chicago deserve a better NFL franchise.

  33. I stand corrected. Soldier Field’s seating capacity is 61,500. And since The Raiders recently chose to close off 10,000 seats in the Coliseum, that means the Bears now have the second smallest seating capacity of any NFL team. Sorry for the error, but that’s still a joke.

  34. Well. More basic webpage navigation fails on my part. Sorry to waste more of anybody’s time who’s not interested, but again the link for fantasy football is It’s now a public league open to all, so if that link doesn’t work again (it did for my wife, but I don’t know if it’s iPad restrictive or not) you can search for it in the available custom leagues. “Indiana Scoopsters” is the league name. Filter for head-to-head scoring type, auto draft type, and yahoo sports can’t cut lists to shorten the lists. Or just do a yahoo search. Sorry I can’t figure out how to make it any easier.

    By the way– Go Hoosiers. Go Colts. And go Cubbies… Next year…

  35. Harvard, I don’t buy it. Any opinion you forward about Crean that claims to be formed based on the last 6 years of watching him is invalidated by the fact that you made up your mind about Crean on day 1. He couldn’t even make it past “Because it’s Indiana” before you had thrown him into the fire and damned his entire legacy. You made up your mind that you were going to hate whoever IU hired to replace Sampson, because you were mad about the entire scandal. And over the past 6 years you’ve simply selectively amassed evidence to support your pre-formed idea.

    So who is really being “inauthentic” here, you or the coach?

  36. Husky-

    You’re right. I did have a bad feeling very early on. And that feeling has not wavered one iota.

    He came in with his Bible and crosses in a desire to continue to crucify what the NCAA had already completed/investigated/punished. He’s still doing it six years after his hire date. He plays victim when he wasn’t the victim of anything. Indiana Basketball is bigger and better than victim acts and coaches that believe themselves heroes by way of their own twittering tongues. Chasing Bobby Knight and chasing ex-Sampson assistants is his way of slathering himself(rather than the players)with praises as if he was the savior coach that took us out of the ashes. If that’s not a complete blowbag fraud, then find me one better. He won’t last forever…but the oil spill from ValvoCrean in Bloomington could take longer to clean up than BP’s careless greed spewed into the Gulf of Mexico.

    He’s already manufacturing his own demise by pulling away from searching first for Indiana talent. The fans won’t have much patience for recruiting that doesn’t involve a larger share of Indiana kids. He was manipulative enough to get Cody and the Movement. But how much confidence in the coaching did Cody have to stay on another year? Recruiting will only take you so far…And though it will take some time for the Bible-grippers to see the light, it will soon be evident that ValvoCrean is less of an X’s and O’s coach than John Calipari. The “bait and tackle shop” has the lures and the brains…and keeping the rivalry game would have just thrown salt on a wound that the man that took the best basketball job in the country is nothing more than a talking billboard.

    Go Fantasy Football!!

  37. Here’s a few questions. And since my opinion is not valid because of my inherent bias of CharlaTom, maybe some other Scoop experts can weigh in..We can call them Fantasy Basketball questions.

    1) How far do you see the Hoosiers going in next year’s tournament?

    2) Will we get to hand another Sweet 16 banner?

    3) Will Crean ever coach the Hoosiers as deep into a tournament as Mike Davis?

    4) Is Butler, even after the departure of Stevens, a likelier destination for a larger share of Indiana hoops talent due to ValvoCrean’s desire to take his recruiting Pipeline east?

    5) Will many of the top Indiana kids look more and more to OSU, Michigan, and MSU with the growing Pipeline perspective in Crean’s recruiting?

    6) How long will we tolerate watching Indiana high school talent in rivalry Big 10 uniforms beating up on the Indiana Hoosiers?

    7) Is Cody & “The Movement” the last major influx of Indiana talent we’ll see under Crean for many years?

    8) Do any of you feel s sense of extra corny cornfed Indiana pride knowing the Indiana Hoosiers take their team in front of a national spotlight and March Madness cameras when homegrown Indiana kids are donning the colors and bringing home the victories?

    9) Have we become so obsessed with player rankings and national recruiting sites that we no longer believe an Indiana kid can bring something special beyond raw talent?

  38. Harvard- you are the grandpa sitting in the rocking chair complaining about how “they don’t make em like they used do.” You are the Republican who thinks that history ended with WWII and the conclusions produced should determine all foreign policy decision-making till the end of time. You are the buddy from high school who still refuses to get a cell phone or an email address. The one writing checks at the grocery store instead of using his debit card, and holding up the entire line.

    Successful coaches these days always have their eyes on both in-state and out-of-state talent. Crean has done well with both, and will continue to do so. If you think a Big 10 program can still win with cornfield boys and a booming voice, you are trapped in a bygone age.

  39. Maybe so…maybe so.

    Sue me for liking Indiana kids in a Hoosier uniform. And call me a traitor for enjoying watching a kid from my tiny hometown take the NCAA tournament by storm. I am old-fashioned in many ways, but I believe you’ll also find that I’m of a liberal and open mind on many issues of the day.

    And please don’t be a hypocrite by acting you like you didn’t enjoy watching Terrence Jones have a bit of redemption in the NCAA tournament. Please don’t pretend you don’t have the same hometown/geographic soft spots in the heart for talent that is from your childhood stomping grounds.

    And maybe instead of attacking me for my corny love of my home state, you should attempt answering some of the nine questions I posed.

  40. Larry Bird…? Oscar Robertson…? Steve Downing…? Scott Skiles…? Steve Alford..? Landon Turner…? Damon Bailey..? The VanArsdale twins…? McGinnis…? Ray Tolbert?…Calbert Cheaney…Mike Woodson….?

    I’m not so sure if the do make Hoosiers like they used to. We pulled some great talent from bordering states(Isiah from Chicago..May from Ohio)and a couple from afar, but when I search my memories long and true far beyond the pride in the banners glow, I see a lot of damn fine Indiana young men that lassoed my heart to know…Maybe not all NBA material…Maybe not the most talented in the nation, but certainly some of the most clutch performing, team-oriented, and unselfish.

  41. Terrence Jones is from Oregon, FYI.

    Harvard, I can’t muster up the energy to answer most of your questions because they are either stale, totally stale, or speculative, with no possible way to answer until they either happen or don’t.

    About the homegrown talent, I think that everyone in every school in every state wants to keep homegrown talent. It’s usually a top priority on almost every coach’s agenda, to the point of being cliché. The reason this is so is because it is hard to do, not because it is what any good coach pulls off with ease. Some kids want to stay close to ma and pa and have a college experience that feels like an extension of high school. A lot of kids also want to get away and do something difference, and it doesn’t matter how good of a salesman the hometown coach is.

  42. Harvard, give up. Nobody cares anymore. Can’t you understand that? Why do you keep bringing these issues up? Please, pretty please go away.

  43. You keep making the ridiculous claim that we aren’t recruiting Indiana kids. It’s blatantly false. You have posed these questions and made these accusations before… You can ask it 9 different ways or a 100 different ways…

    You have been proven wrong. Crean recruits Indiana hard. Harder than anyone else. He can’t make the decisions for these kids. In his first 5 classes he has signed 10 kids from Indiana HS’s. in 2014 he offered to Blackmon, Blueitt, Lyles, and Lyle. In 2015 he’s after Edwards and Coleman. In ’16 he wants Gordon and Blackmon.

    I’m sure you’d like it if IU was mediocre with 14 native Hoosiers on the roster every season… 99% of fans want a contending team with the best possible players from Indiana, other states, or Australia if necessary.

    Shut up already on this topic. It’s total BS.

  44. Geoff, I’d briefly considered bringing up the trio (I say trio because I’d forgotten one of the, uh, Lyleses… but I digress) of Indiana boys Crean was recruiting for next year. Then I remembered that poor lifeless horse…

    Harv, I’m not sure we’ve ever handed any banners, but if we do it doesn’t sound like the sort of thing I’d bring the wife and kids to see. (Sorry. Had to do it. It’s been a looooooooong week.)

  45. Want a bunch of crap…You act like the only reason a kid chooses Indiana is by way of his own motivations. It’s a two-way street. If the coach doesn’t show interest and would rather concentrate his efforts primarily outside of the state, the Hoosier homegrown talent can make a choice to still stay relatively close to home/ma and pa, but not in Bloominton(e.g. Butler, OSU, MSU, Michigan, UK).

    Crean is making a concerted effort to build his recruiting ties to the East. It’s obvious and he is laying the early stones his own demise. I tend to think the change in his recruiting strategy is very interesting. He’s gambling that his eye for diamonds in the rough and sleeper future NBA talent can get him deep enough in a tournament before the wolves turn on him. It could be the first signs of his wanting to break out of the constraints the homey Hoosiers of rocking chairs that want a team more resembling the Hoosiers of banner days.

    I believe the window of opportunity is very small for such a gamble…If he goes Pipeline for Podunker and fails…? If that failure is paralleled to watching teams like MSU & Michigan riding the momentum of some of the same Indiana names that were not interested in Indiana because Crean had gone outside the borders and stacked the roster with offers at their same positions..?

    You don’t see how he’s attempting to take his Marquette style and break away from the restrictions Knight always had to operate under?

    Funny how you claim it takes too much energy for what you fail to perceive(or don’t want to). I don’t think watching Crean attempt to put Indiana “Movements” in the dust and escape the stale Indiana world of entrenched fuddy-duddies that have manipulated Indiana’s recruiting choices from backrooms of athletic departments for decades is boring at all. How can Seth Davis take shots at us when most our roster will be East Coast kids that could have easily ended up on a Syracuse, Georgetown, Duke, Virginia, or NC roster? Isn’t it the slow hokey homegrown Jordy Hulls of our little hick world that have allowed them to define Indiana as stuck today in the backward days of Milan along with shin-kicking Bobby that has long supplied them with the ammunition?

    How do they ridicule us if we become them? There’s your food for thought that you so shallowly miss.

    Carry on.

  46. Punjab-

    I like your sense of humor..I saw the “handed” typo but decide to let it hang loose.

  47. Yeah, Harv, I think I’ve mentioned on here before that my mom’s a copy editor. I vowed growing up to never subject another human being to the ridicules of grammatical oversight unless absolutely necessary. This, my friend, was just too good to pass up.

    Two points, though. I notice you never bring up that “other” Indiana school. You mention Butler, after all. It’s wasn’t so long ago that they were ranked as high as #3 in the country, and they may be on an upswing again. Be careful not to overlook our drab neighbors to the north.

    Second, it’s not just a pipeline to the east. Off the top of my head, we’ve got one Vegas kid on board for next year and another (Zimmerman, I believe) with an offer. We’re also working on a kid from Phoenix if I’m not mistaken. Fischer is from Wisconsin. It’s not just a building pipeline to the east; it’s branching out in general. You’ve got a point that some old-school Hoosier fans may detest the shrinking amount of homegrown talent on our team, but it’s not like we don’t reach out to those, either. Crean tries. He just doesn’t land them all.

  48. If “99% of fans want a contending team” then they’d better wake up soon to CharlaTom ValvoCrean and measure success by something beyond a Sweet 16 in which we were thoroughly embarrassed and a couple draft picks.

    Last time I checked, landing players on the soft cushy stuffed money-pillows of the NBA’s greedy house of prima donnas didn’t bring us home a banner.

    An Indiana kid that played in last year’s championship game decided returning for banners was more important than your Sweet 16 measure of “contention”… or a fat, juicy, NBA contract. We need more Mitch McGarys and fewer “Going Home” Bannerless parties.

    Then again…in retrospect it’s tough to be too hard on Cody and Vic. They don’t have a steady Jim Beilein or a heady Jim Boeheim. They may have been more inclined to return if they felt there was a man on the sideline that could do his part. Maybe it wasn’t solely about the money for Cody and Vic.

  49. Punjab-

    I could be mistaken, but I believe the Vegas kid you speak of is originally from the East…He just transferred for one year to get more exposure at some high school more a basketball camp. I doubt we get Zimmerman. Don’t forget about Alford at UCLA.

    Butler is a sleeping giant of a midget. And if we spend too much time on the Pipeline, it’s hard to imagine(or stomach) we’ll soon be a second fiddle choice to a Mickey Mouse school when contending for top Indiana talent. That Crossroads Classic game against a Butler without Stevens must be staring down at Crean like Bobby playing the priest behind his confessional booth.

  50. Lest we forgot that beyond the TCDS fanaticism, one of the main complaints about that Syracuse loss wasn’t the lack of a plan to beat their zone, but the lack of athleticism and composure to execute the plan. “Why didn’t he take Jordy out?” Oh, you mean the homiest of hometown boys– an unathletic Bloomington native who should’ve been front and center in the hearts of all the Indiana faithful. Which is it? Crean can’t coach? Or he was stuck with an Indiana Mr Basketball– a local product who happened to be the best we have to offer– who was just too overmatched to get the job done?

  51. Punjab – don’t forget the 2 kids from Colorado…

    Well, besides being completely false Harvard its also boring.

    Louisville had 1 bench player from Indy who was a non-factor and 4 of their top 7 were “soft” east coast pipeline kids, including the MOP.

    UK won a championship with one Hoosier and then 4 others out of their top 6 from the East Coast & Mariner Tom’s neck of the woods.

    UConn and Duke both managed to beat a bunch of Indiana kids from Butler with their east coast pipeline rosters.

    Crean was the first to offer Blueitt, Balckmon, and Lyles… I’m not sure about Lyle. Not sure how much more love you can show than offering them a scholarship before anyone else in the country.

    I could keep going to further disprove your ridiculous point, but I’m tired. Why do you care what Seth says about our team? Talk about soft… Your skin is so thin despite your Chesterton upbringing.

  52. Hey guys…It’s been fun. I really did truly want to talk Hoosier football(the study in contrasts) but Mariner pulled the ole strings again.

    It’s not an easy task to be the head coach of the Indiana Hoosiers basketball team. There are a lot of shadows and it’s easy to get caught up in the chase of it all. Bill Maher said it best the other night when he talked of old Republicans tied to old policies and stale outdated mores just needing to pass quietly into the night…Change will inevitably come. Acceptance of change will come with the death of old stubborn mules. It sounds rather cruel, but until Bobby is literally put to rest(along with the many that aged alongside the nest), there will always be the measuring of every future Hoosier coach against the man percieved as one of the best. Those banners may be old and dusty but we cling to believe and hope such days can return again to Bloomington.

    I am selfish and want them back though they may never return. And I am not very kind in stealing hope from young fans that have never experienced the streets of Bloomignton in chaotic bliss on a night of claiming the ultimate prize in college basketball. Forgive me for living in the past and killing the optimism that should blossom from every young student a tried and true fan of their Hoosiers without the obstructions an old and bitter Harvard tale living in the shadows of it all.

    It’s tough to accept you don’t matter anymore. You look old in the stands and you feel old in the balcony. The time passes by and all that is gone leaves you wondering why. It is the youthful exuberance of Tom Crean that infects you. It sometimes feels like an early nail in the coffin for old Harvard. But it is not fair that my despair of days vanished from a decade seem an hour..when it is your day that should be left to flower in the sun. Please forgive that I have spoiled that fun.

  53. Yeah, except they don’t spend too much time in the pipeline. They spend all their time recruiting great players. And if you’re a great player from Indiana you will get lots of attention from our staff. There are 9 big time national level recruits coming out of Indiana in the next 3 classes. IU offered all of them as 8th graders, freshmen, or sophs… That means they are identifying the very best talent extremely early in the process, and then mot dragging their feet making them feel loved.

    I’m officially done with this conversation for the night. Proceed in posting more inane comments. I won’t interfere.

  54. How ’bout some Iron Butterfly? Will somebody with an ounce of creativity put some Eric Gordon highlights to this tune? I’ll buy a Trojan Horse pork tenderloin sandwich and a cold beer for someone to act on such request.

  55. Geoff-

    Don’t you have pump duties? If only Crean could hook a breast pump up to a sedated Bobby and drink for an hour from the straw of a winning boob.

  56. I think the point, Harv, is that athletes are continually bigger, faster, and stronger. The days of relying on sharp-shooting and fundamentally sound– albeit unathletic– basketball from the cornfields is going the way of the dodo. You’ll have your Butlers crop up and surprise everyone now and then, but to expect to have the same consistent success that Bobby had with similar athleticism today is fooling yourself.

    As a relatively unathletic man myself– I’ve still got a good softball arm, solid glove, and decent enough lateral movement to play shortstop, but my teammates call me grandpa every time this 30-something-year-old slug tries to leg out an infield hit or rounds third base– I’d love to imagine that a team full of ballers with my athletic pedigree can consistently win championships. But that’s just not the reality.

    In a perfect world, we have all the homegrown talent, athleticism, fundamentals, shooting, and dedication we need to hang banners with players from right here in Indiana. Oh, and they all choose to wear the candy stripes. Realistically speaking, though, I’d settle for a few out-of-state blue chippers (who may only be here a year or two) to compliment the local products who stick around long enough to learn how get the job done and be someone our fans can grow with.

    But you’re right. It is a shame that a football post regressed into another series of basketball rants. I like what KW has done, where he’s taking us, and if he sticks with it he seems to have the coaching prowess and demeanor to be another Frank Beamer. Or Bob Knight. What was once the laughing stock of Big Ten football could become a perennial contender for championships. KW seems to have the goods, and in the end can be as important to IU football as RMK was to basketball. Laugh if you want, but who in 1970 though an Army coach with OSU roots would become as synonymous with Indiana basketball for so long? Coach Wilson, until you prove me wrong you have my faith and support.

  57. By the way, Jeremy, thanks for joining. I just find it fascinating that anyone who does sports for a living would want anything to do with it on their personal time. You’re a better man than I, good sir. Look forward to embarrassing you in the very near future.

  58. Punjab-

    We had the #1 ranked team for much of the season last year. Somewhere something is amiss. These so-called experts also took part in ranking Cody Zeller as the top preseason POY and put him on the cover of nearly every sports magazine. We, by all accounts, had a team of bigger, stronger, and faster. But did we have a team of prepared, cohesive, and composed? Talent in its most modern sense your supreme vision of the “new” athlete isn’t worth a pot to piss in without the chemistry and confidence that flows through the team from a sound and confident coach that can bring something together bigger than the individual parts. It’s the beauty of the game beyond the highlight reals of a freakishly gifted athlete…It’s the pulling back the reins at times..It’s the tuning of the engine rather than just the gas pedal going through the floorboards. It’s watching five play to the orchestration of their desires to strive to be far better as a group than any individual their singular history.

    I still believe much of winning is shoulders upward. The athletic curve of improvement is evident throughout sports, but the true tipping scales of separation between winner and loser is still often in the character, savviness, and the turns of fate and momentum courtesy a gutsy relatively unknown kid that comes up big out of nowhere.

    I think the science of the athlete and the individual rankings systems so many become obsessed oversimplifies the mystery and ability of a team to gel and grow within the right demeanor its collective personality and under the guidance a composed and crafty leader from the sideline.

  59. and Punjab….I sure wish I could write with your sound grammatical structure, fundamentals, and smooth transitions in thought. I never had much of any family to guide me with the pen. I do my best while knowing it’s probably very flawed to your trained eye. Thanks for being a kind blogging companion and not taking cheap shots. It’s so easy to strike down an opinion with the flashiness a fine suit.

  60. In the end, it’s water under the bridge. Holding a grudge is silly, especially on a forum where none of us will probably ever meet.

  61. Hey Ben… I live in Maine and have already met a couple of the Scoopers… Plan on meeting more in the future.

    Harvard, one major flaw in your post, and its a major flaw, is the notion that anyone thought, including our own fan base, that we were bigger, faster, or stronger.

    Everyone knew we had an undersized back court. Everyone knew that we didn’t have much real size outside of Cody. No one thought Jordy or Watford were among the faster players in the country, but they would be logging major minutes. It’s hard to have a clear strength advantage if you don’t have a size advantage.

    What we had on our side was supposed to be talent, experience, and depth. We had talent with Cody, Victor, and a McDonald’s All-American PG coming into the fold. We had experience with Wat, Jordy, and Elston. We had depth with 4 returning starters, Sheehey, Abell, and a top 10 incoming class.

    The only thing that didn’t really come to fruition was our depth. Abell didn’t make a step forward. Elston and Jurkin dealt with injuries. Hollowell and Perea weren’t as ready as we’d hoped. Creek couldn’t make the return to even a fraction of his old form.

    As far as coaching goes, Crean did a good job with this group, but not a great job. He got out-coached in the tournament. Not only against an extremely talented Syracuse team, which is forgiveable, but also against Temple. The good news with Crean is that I truly believe he has the work ethic and desire to improve on his weaknesses. Hopefully he has the insight to understand where they lie.

  62. So if we weren’t “bigger, faster, stronger,” then how and why on earth did all the rankings services keep us so high and so favored to be the team to beat. Were we purposefully over-ranked and dumped on with too high of expectations by an Establishment element of the media that actually knew we weren’t near the powerhouse team they were purporting? What would be there motivation to sell us as the best team in country for most of the season? Do they not know their own business?

    I tend to think they know their own business very well but adjust the numbers to create false expectations. We were severely over-ranked. One would almost think they were setting Indiana and Crean up for failure. Or, did they sell us as better than we actually were because they understand the shallowness of a fan base that only understands media hype, highlight reel high wire acts, and rankings charts? Does the Establishment media believe the fans will be plenty content with Tom Crean as long as the recruiting classes are highly ranked and some of his few “diamonds in the rough” continue to get large amounts of attention from the NBA? Did local guys like Dustin Dopirak add to the hype by building up guys like Hanner Perea as a ready to break out future Hakeem Olajuwon?

    Then again, you don’t honestly believe we were exponentially faster with Yogi at the point? Would Roth’s size and accuracy on the perimeter have made a difference? Would Patterson’s quickness, size, and defensive tenacity made a difference? Did the suspensions cost us? Did the suspensions come about because of way too much hype given to Perea? Did the NCAA(fed by an Establishment media) look for anything to penalize Indiana because they feared the hyped Perea living up to the billing and did everything they could to keep him off the floor in a very crucial phase of his early season development?

    And the Patterson thing…? Was this also motivated by an anti-Crean/anti-Indiana element that works behind closed doors that desires Indiana to be in the limelight(media dollars because of the huge fan base and following)but yet railroaded because they hate the thought of another banner in Assembly? I truly believe Patterson would have pushed us to the top. He was the added athleticism and quickness that would have made the difference. I also tend to believe(given the original roster pieces we were intended to have)if we would have the added zest and invaluable court time of Hollowell out of the gate early(no 9 game suspension), it could have carried over into the tournament.

    We were plenty bigger, stronger, and faster. We were simply railroaded with purposeful expectations too high. We had inexperienced players over-hyped and crucial elements kept either off the roster in the important early phases of freshman acclamation..and one removed entirely.(Hollwell & Perea for the first 9 games..Patterson part of a contrived witch hunt).

    The 9-game suspension, the completely unnecessary abundance of hype thrown on Perea, and Patterson’s removal from the team was this year’s 3-way phone call. Throw in the fact that Elston was sidelined for much of the year?

    We had a team that should have won it all without the Establishment railroading and mountains made out of molehill issues. If Cody and Vic would have returned, I doubt any amount of interference could have stopped us. It’s really a travesty that Cody and Vic didn’t want to shove it down the man’s throat and give their coach the accolades he deserves. Don’t put this all on Jordy. Hulls didn’t have the benefit of some crucial pieces that were missing from the original equation. Patterson was to Jordan Hulls a Keith Smart to Steve Alford.

  63. What would be [their] motivation to sell us as the best team in country for most of the season?

  64. Because we were the best team n the country for most of the season Harvard. No motivation other than voting on reality.

  65. Couple of the Scoopers? I thought you only met UMass and he doesn’t even blog here anymore(unless it’s under an alias like so many others). You must have scared him away once you maintained phone numbers and addresses.

    Dustin is not a blogger…Anyone could stalk a journalist to one of the hundreds of Hoosier events he covers.

    It wasn’t voting on reality because the Hoosiers had taken a hard hit in depth before the season even kicked off without Patterson and the hard hit by way of false reality an over-hyping of a Hanner Perea that was not nearly the force one would believe based on local HT journalist’s extreme ‘Hakeem’ selling and the attention given to national publicized investigative articles by ESPN rats looking into A-Hope’s ties to prominent AAU teams/IU video coordinators now working for Alford.

    Once Patterson was removed and the suspensions/penalties were enforced as a means to kill the early and vital experiences necessary for Perea’s(and to some degree, Hollowell)early season development, it should have been obvious that IU was not fielding the same team that expectations were built upon.

    And once Hanner did get on the court and it became obvious that he was hardly going to be anymore valuable than a Tijan Jobe(at least in terms of 2012-13), their should have been further realization that most the anticipated success that came with #1 rankings was riding on less shoulders than even the previous year(when Pritchard, Jones, Roth, and a healthy Elston were actually adding far more depth).

  66. Hmmm? Character limits…Rhinestoned must be back from his vacation.

    Do all Scoopers know that it was Ron Patterson that actually dubbed the 2012 class as “The Movement?”

  67. No comments on the ncaa potential changes?

    Stipend of $6000-$7000 yrly for scholarship kids. Sounds fair but would like to see a few bucks go to the kids playing sports with partial scholarship.

    Academically challenged kids could have a full year of study/classes. I guess while with scholarship. Would this have been a Ron Patterson solution?

    The one I can’t figure out is the ‘lifetime free education’ for the athlete. Is this for the one and done? Or two & gone? Is the ncaa saying ‘ok guys. We know you could not study with all the basketball. So after a couple of yrs of pro, come back and finally get an education?’. Sounds like a Kentucky clause.

  68. Geoff and I only missed by a few miles and a few minutes. It was all on me.

    Punjab, A few years back, even after I retired my whistle I had previously coached a bunch of the high school football players. That included a number that went on to play at the next level.

    I’d come early to summer work outs. Despite being old and decrepit I still had foot speed, so I’d run 40’s with them to show the big boys some humility. The last summer I did this I was probably about 46 years old. I stayed near the front of the pack through the first 3 sprints and talked $hit the whole time to the youngsters. I then blew a hamstring and groin muscle simultaneously. Total NASCAR spin out, crash and burn into the fence.

    It was my last time running with the team.

  69. ‘lifetime free education’ for the athlete…

    Who is that supposed to apply to? For the most part only football and basketball players are even on a full scholarship. If you’re the greatest baseball player ever you might get 1/2 scholarship.

    I’ve talked about my kids. One of them earned a 1/4 scholarship AFTER winning the conference and making a solid run into the NCAA Championships.

    ‘lifetime free education’

    Not very likely.

  70. There were plenty of Ron Patterson solutions. Where there wasn’t a solution was in receiving too many signed letters of intent for the number of offered scholarships. And the irony of “The Movement” was moving the kid that dubbed the phrase off the team.

    Always thought “The Movement” referred to Tom Crean’s halftime adjustments.

  71. Hey, I think it would be great. It’s definitely deserved. I just don’t know if they care enough about the kids that don’t bring buckets of cash with them.

    I suppose that sounds a bit cynical but I’ve traveled down their road more than once.

  72. Of course you have to keep in mind that a ‘lifetime free education’ for the athlete, in Kentucky, equals a GED*.

    *or a certificate proclaiming you as a ‘Kentucky Colonel’ (my Dad got one of those).

  73. Regardless of your opinion Harvard, IU was the best team in the country for most of the season.

    Since you want to rail on things the coaches and media were NOT considering when voting rankings please add Roth to Buss and Perea’s names.

    Classic stuff, our depth took an “huge hit” because Patterson, an incoming 3 star freshman, who no one outside Indiana knew about, and who was, at best, the 4th most heralded recruit in The Movement, didn’t make it on the roster of a team including 2 future NBA lottery picks, four 1000+ point scorers, and the future 6th man of the year in the toughest conference in the country.

    …totally makes sense Harvard. Not to mention the fact that it happened in August, but the voters in every poll just kept making them #1 week after week throughout the entire season.

    You win. It’s a waste of time. I will stop responding. You have no valid arguments to debate. It’s all utter nonsense. Jesus the summer gets long on here.

  74. Got a laugh out of Harvard’s comment that he wanted to talk IU football, but that I “pulled his strings” and got him talking about Crean again. Are you kidding? Crean is all he ever talks about, and it takes no provoking whatsoever to get him going. The real challenge is getting him to talk about something else, anything. If the movie Fatal Attraction were to be re-done, I’d cast Harvard as Glenn Close and Crean as Michael Douglas. That’s how much Harvard is obsessed with Crean.

  75. Ron Patterson signs his letter of intent

    Broad Ripple guard Ron Patterson the second player to commit to Indiana’s vaunted 2012 class and the one who dubbed it “The Movement” signed his letter of intent at 3 p.m. on Wednesday, leaving Lawrence Central swingman Jeremy Hollowell as the last of the five committed players waiting to sign. Hollowell has a signing day ceremony scheduled for 7 p.m.

    Patterson was asked the words “The Movement” have come to mean to him.

    “It means hang banners and win championships,” Patterson said(courtesy: Hoosier Scoop/Ron Patterson makes it four
    by Dustin Dopirak | Wednesday, November 9, 2011 – 6:08 pm).

    Though Patterson is rated fourth of the five players in the Class, checking in at 131 in’s Top 150 rankings for the class, his unique skill set could make him the piece of the puzzle that makes that possible. The 6-foot-3, 195-pounder has a 6-10 wingspan and unlike most top prospects, is better known for his abilities as a defender than for his offensive skills.


    Hoosier Clarion
    Thursday, November 10, 2011 – 12:01 PM UTC

    RP’s “D” @ IU = SHOWTIME

    Hoosier Clarion
    Wednesday, May 18, 2011 – 8:56 AM UTC

    Someone needs to ask Tar Heels bound point guard Marcus Paige where he would rank Patterson. I am sure he is suffering through bad dreams after having to deal with RP in the second half of their meeting at the Run-n-Slam.

    Hoosier Clarion was very high on Patterson. I respect his opinion. He doesn’t live in stat books or at rankings sites…He gets around Indiana and he attends many high school events. He makes cherry pies in electric iron skillets when he gets home. Clarion loved Patterson’s game. He understood that he would have added that retro electric intensity to the Hoosiers…a bit of old school Indy with the sweetness and unique style that would get in the heads of the opposition. Tenacious defender that was a very important piece of the Movement. He was original with an iron physique in a cast of ingredients rather in need a wide and fast born out of the less privileged basketball streets of Indy; a kid that was tested and of personality…A kid with heart. A role player on a team needing some hard-nosed balance instead of nose-plugging gestures and fingers to the temple. Don’t ever underestimate the power of the unheralded. Remember it was guys like A.J. Moye and Jarrad Odle that played an enormous game against Duke on the last Hoosier team that made it to a championship game.

    And here you are, Geoff, bashing an unheralded kid as unimportant as if Oladipo and Sheehey came with tons of fanfare.

  76. Would love to respond a bit more about Patterson, but it appears Jeremy is wearing his rhinestone cape again.

  77. Hoosier Clarion was very high on Patterson. I respect his opinion. He doesn’t live in stat books or at rankings sites…He gets around Indiana and he attends many high school events. He makes cherry pies in electric iron skillets when he gets home. Clarion loved Patterson’s game. He understood that he would have added that retro electric intensity to the Hoosiers…a bit of old school Indy with the sweetness and unique style that would get in the heads of the opposition. Tenacious defender that was a very important piece of the Movement. He was original with an iron physique in a cast of ingredients rather in need a wide and fast born out of the less privileged basketball streets of Indy; a kid that was tested and of personality…A kid with heart. A role player on a team needing some hard-nosed balance instead of nose-plugging gestures and fingers to the temple. Don’t ever underestimate the power of the unheralded. Remember it was guys like A.J. Moye and Jarrad Odle that played an enormous game against Duke on the last Hoosier team that made it to a championship game.

    And here you are, Geoff, bashing an unheralded kid as unimportant as if Oladipo and Sheehey came with tons of fanfare.

  78. Mariner-

    Your shtick is getting as old as Podunker’s. Don’t you think the labels and personality disorder digs are getting sorta old? Is that really all you got?

    Fantasy Football is your game because you know so damn little about sports beyond the obvious layers of rankings and charts. You pick the best melons at Trader Joe’s but have never attempted to grown something sweet to find that the ugliest fruit on the vine may actually wake up the taste buds of interest in something.

    Ron Patterson was not the shiny perfect fruit in your yuppie grocers. He was grown of a stronger vine and his game was sweet from the struggles that make the nutrients and the heart big. Hoosier fans succeeded in painting him as something rotten deserving tossed in the trash and back on the street. He was C- variety! Give him no chance because he’s not the market shelf, grown in fields of perfection at church-sponsored academy basketball high school camps, fed holy water from a hose job variety on sold at Trader Joe Hillman’s; the primo stamped variety the unsophisticated eye will always desire when the ‘Era of Pious Perfection’ cloaks the Bloomington garden under Tom Crean.

  79. Besides living in an alternate reality Harvard, you also somehow miss the entire point of posts. I am not a voter in either the media or coaches poll… Neither is Clarion… Neither are you.

    I was very excited about Buss. But regardless, you can insinuate what you’d like about what is important to me… It makes no difference to my point or the reality of the situation.

    Voters were not voting IU #1 in the preseason because of Buss. They didn’t know who he was. They definitely weren’t voting for IU in the season, AFTER THEY PROVED THEY WERE DESERVING OF THE RANKING, because they were doing it in spite of his absence.

    You are a moron. Sorry. I don’t mean it in an unfriendly way. I have a couple friends who are morons and we remain close.

  80. The rankings were based on many things.

    -High bars were set by an Establishment media that desired unnecessary pressure on a Indiana program desperately in wanting of a return to the biggest Final Four stage. that never found true fruition.

    Perea was initially over-hyped as an “it factor” freakishly gifted athletic; a talent that was also spotlighted in the cover art work of an ESPN article attempting to shed a bad light on Crean, A-Hope, and the AAU connections.

    Suspensions came and stymied the development of Perea and Hollowell in the critical span preceding conference play.

    Patterson’s defensive tenacity and wingspan could have certainly helped a team in need of the length to go along with his quickness. He was an integral part of the Movement and in hindsight will likely look even more valuable if Perea and Jurkin never live up to the billing.

    -The non-factor of Perea…The slower climb to meaningful PT for Hollowell…The absence of Patterson. The fact that Elston never got into the flow. The ranking was far too high and it showed come NCAA time.

    -The east coast domesticated media world elite kept the ranking high to place added pressure on a team that they knew missing some key or underdeveloped pieces that were originally going to make a difference and be part of the banner run.

    It was a far different team than what was envisioned in late summer of 2012. Go back and listen to ScoopTalks discussing Patterson and Perea.

    -Hollowell did finally add some form of solid contribution very late(primarily defense and boards)but the huge ballyhoo that talked of a “Movement” for two years basically boiled down to a new flashy point guard.

    -Those that turn out the rankings and vote in the polls didn’t do their homework or they purposely kept IU with the target on their backs knowing full well we weren’t nearly as strong a team as had been promoted and advertised.

    Cody Zeller literally had no backup. Hollowell, a key freshman, left the train station very late, and his offensive game never gelled.

    The Hoosiers were much thinner and Captain Scholly Crunch’s great freshman class was left ultra thin with Yogi as its only primetime contributor. If that’s a “Movement” than simply having an Earl Calloway would be analogous to backcourt diarrhea.

    -Yes, Oladipo was going home..Going home with an inflated #1 ranking to go along with his inflated ego, Cody’s inflated ego, and with OUR inflated ego fed by an Establishment media that didn’t even feature a return Buss ticket.

    Nice to see you stoop to name-calling and then finish it with a kiss. I won’t go there, Mr. Lunch Date. I think you’re the Robert Goulet of Scoop.

  81. -The east coast [dominated] media world elite kept the ranking high….

    And I think it’s worth repeating…

    If Cody and Vic would have returned, I doubt any amount of interference could have stopped us. It’s really a travesty that Cody and Vic didn’t want to shove it down the man’s throat and give their coach the accolades he deserves.

  82. One of your worst posts ever Harvard. Really. Not only is it silly, but it is also full of errors…. Hollowell = Jurkin.

    IU won games. That’s why they were ranked #1.

    IU beat many very good teams. That’s why they got votes.

    IU won on the road in the B1G. That’s why they were ranked #1.

    IU was the best team in the best conference. That’s why they got votes.

    Other teams lost important games and couldn’t hold onto the spot. That’s why IU was ranked #1.

    In the end, after all your made up BS and conspiracy non-sense, that reality will always be staring you in the face.

  83. The Establishment did such a good job of selling Dipo and inflating his ego, that they got him drafted #2 overall…

    Not because he could actually play… Because of the hype.

    In a league where GM’s break down all the analytics. Where scouts run them through team-specific drills to see how their particular skill sets will fit into a given style. Where they interview players and look at a number of responses, the least of which are what is actually spoken. Where they comb through game film over and over and over and over and over and over… Because they are making a multi-million dollar decision, that could change their fortunes or cost them their jobs.

    Yep they let the Establishment dupe them. Good call Harvard.

  84. Geoff, thanks for the voice of reason. Harvard’s extremism makes the Tea Party look rational and down to earth.

    And thank you for bringing up the road wins. I wonder how far back in the last two decades you have to go to find a Hoosier team that beat good MSU, OSU, and Michigan teams on the road in the same season? Sampson had two first-team All Americans, and he couldn’t even beat Indiana State on the road, not to mention Connecticut team at home that was missing its two best players.

  85. D.J. White was a 2nd Team All-American. Gordon was a 3rd Team All-American. They were both 1st Team All-Big 10. Please don’t compare Sampson’s first building block years to a team built around Cody Zeller in the middle. Loved Armon Bassett, but even with experience under his belt, he did not possess the vision at point guard as a Yogi Ferrell.

    You don’t have to go back two decades to find a Hoosier team that went beyond the Sweet 16. Just prior to the Sampson teams you refuse seem to shut up about(much like our coach that’s still chasing the Sampson shadows in Ann Arbor while steeling attention away from what should have been a celebration for the players), there was a team led by Mike Davis that made it to a championship game in 2003. That team beat a #1 Duke and had far less starting five talent than last last season’s Hoosiers.

    And the more you guys keep claiming last year’s Hoosier team was the same as billed, the more it appears the man in charge may not have what it takes in March Madness.

    Cody and Dipo did carry this team. Watford did not see an captivating senior year. Perea, a guy that was supposed to be the next Hakeem, was a dud. Remy’s role had changed and he didn’t carry the same mojo as he did when he was thrown into fires. Hollowell was put behind the development curve because of the suspension. We had lost Patterson(combined with Dipo, we could have had unbelievable havoc on the defensive end) to a scholly crunch made into an academic issue.

    Was there the athleticism, the depth, the needed backups, and wind in the sails to sustain the winning through the Big 10 tournament and deep into the NCAA tournament? Did this Hoosier team have the thoroughbreds at the starting five of a 2011-12 Kentucky national championship team? No STINKING WAY! THERE WAS ONLY ONE NAME FROM THE MOVEMENT THAT BECAME A MEANINGFUL CONTRIBUTOR-YOGI FERRELL.

    Purdue has lots of Big 10 season title banners…Iowa has Big 10 tournament banners. Sweet 16’s adorn the Big 10.

    We had our shot. The Establishment and scholly crunches got in the way of having a team built for the long haul of an NCAA tournament run post exhausting and mentally draining Big 10 season. Outside of Dipo, the real added athleticism of the team was supposed to come in the form of monumental added depth with Perea, Patterson, Hollowell, Yogi, and Jurkin. Only Yogi(and for all intensive purposes he did about everything you could ask out of a freshman starting point guard)was able to really make any true impact in one of the most highly heralded, highly ranked, highly hyped, freshman classes in IU history.

    Maybe if the team had taken some hits early on…? Maybe if the bodies and wear-and-tear a season on our true few studs would have made us more humble and put us in a ranking more realistic? Maybe if there wasn’t an Establishment influence(in fans and journalists alike) that measures success on NBA drafts and magazine covers over banners and Final Four trips..? Maybe if the Establishment media didn’t force the NCAA’s hand to snoop around Bloomington once again and cause investigations and suspensions making our “Movement” into more an 8-week constipation. Maybe if keep focused and never buy into the hype of #1…This was not the deep team as billed. Without a phenomenal backcourt, I think you have to question any #1 ranking.

    And if we were so damn athletic, how in the hell does Bo Ryan have our number?

  86. And it bears repeating…And especially now that we have some true athleticism and size coming in at the backcourt…

    If Cody and Vic would have returned, I doubt any amount of interference could have stopped us. It’s really a travesty that Cody and Vic didn’t want to shove it down the man’s throat and give their coach the accolades he deserves.

    Keep slathering them all you want with the “deserved the #1” ointment….In my Hoosier Basketball world, t-shirts that claim “WE’RE BACK!” doesn’t mean toe-tripping A-Hope projects over-billed and Sweet 16s after signing what was build as an incomparable freshman “Movement” and the only Indiana premier center Duke or NC or OSU hasn’t lured out of our borders in the past 20 years.

  87. Harvard, Bob Knight went his last 7 years at IU without making it past the Sweet Sixteen, you Dodo bird. It isn’t a litmus test for being a good coach.

    And Kelvin Sampson’s first years weren’t “building block years.” He inherited a roster with experienced players like Rod Wilmont, Earl Calloway, and Marco Killingsworth in the middle.

    Finally, you’re a total hypocrite to accuse someone – Tom Crean or anyone else – of obsessing over the Sampson years. The Sampson Years define your entire Scoop identity, and influence everything you say.

  88. Great change in direction. You just said that Sampson had two first team All-Americans and you’re calling me the dodo bird?

    Keep in mind that Harvard is a harmless blogger…My nutty behavior and nutty opinions is as irrelevant as your Washington Huskies.

    I do not chase Bobby Knight or Kelvin Sampson assistants in front of national cameras. Nor to I profess to have God in my locker room in front of national cameras. Crean’s more like a Peacock that mated with a Dodo.

    Though I do believe God is in my blogging corner. Did you know that I pray before every ‘submit comment’ clicking of the mouse? I actually pray for to the There/Their/They’re Lord of the Basketblog. Sometimes I pray that Husky and Geoff will have lunch and share their huge knowledge base: “Hemorrhoid Tales from the Crevasse of Greatness.”

    1. Harvard,
      Take a step back and let this blog breathe. We know how you feel and cramming it down everyone’s throat is no more effective than a million retweets of Joyce Meyer. Consider this a polite and rhinestone-less request.

  89. HH. After many yrs in Health Care, you combine the ‘hemorrhoid’ mention with the ‘Crevasse’ and ‘Movement’ mentions, you get a different slant on your postings.

    Or maybe not.

  90. Geoff, Hoosier Clarion, Mariner, Podunker,…H4H has one purpose, to get you to react to his mostly insane craving for attention. He will do what it takes to just get the common reaction he gets from you…he needs it more than oxygen.

    Geoff, you seek him out. You address him directly in three out of every five of your comments. You literally look for him. You use him to highlight your technical/mathematical knowledge of the game of basketball and thus insert the links to the NBA you enjoy. But, since most here are interested in, and nearly exclusively, Hoosier/college basketball and its links to high school/Indiana high school/ recruiting(natl) your dialogue with H4H gives you the joy-stick entry into pro-basketball. You’re smart man- stop stirring the H4H toilet…you just keep the smell circulating. Can you, are you strong enough to resist him? Do you have a need to answer him?

    Hoosier C- He’ll call you a hundred things and, when he senses he’s gone over the top with you, he will try to stick his tongue in your ear he considers. His verses on a ‘real Indiana folks’ aimed at you once in a while- are his investment to keep you on board. Again, his reason, to get your reaction.

    Chet- …(H4H) truly believes that all he needs is to declare his affinity for you and declare you ‘daddy’ once in a while, (reminds me of my mutt, he’s learned to turn his head in an angle and whine a little bit to get me to feed him a treat). (To make i clear, I’m not saying it works; just sayin’ he thinks it works!

    Podunker- mostly the same comment as for HC, only in reverse. He mocks and attacks your positions as the delusions of an ‘old fart’ (as he does with me as well), his attempt to engage us and open the cage to his virus of vitriol in the blog. He particularly takes advantage that, as a hard core Hoosier fan, you defend and support our coaches to the hilt (until, it becomes clear that Indiana U. can not benefit from their coaching- a rational approach). So, he attacks Crean, the staff, the AD, whatever addressing your diagnosis of CPTD (or the name you’ve given it) to dr-a-a-a-a-gg you back in (Sopranos style). For him, Podunker. His worse nightmare? Silence, a mighty weapon, to be allowed to dry up because no-one feeds his habit.

    Mariner Tom- (First, a note: lately I’ve considered an alternate hypothesis; crazy as it seems on the surface- on the basis of nothing but a weird ‘feeling’. If correct- you and H4H are one and the same person; a game for him, a confrontation of the Two Faces of Eve in a dialogue by the same one sick puppy. I do not believe the claims he is not behind the multiple identities. Should be quite easy for someone practiced at internet trolling. Instead, the ‘two faces of Eve’ are his most entertaining game, the confrontation of two opposite parameters- H4H/Mariner- create one paradigm (just like capitalist/pluralist-democracy and totalitarian communism are opposite ends of the same ‘political’ paradigm (control governance). Once in a while, we’ll get the ‘Ohhh Mariner!…we go back a long time to other blogs we’ve been blown away from’ MT…I yearn for your debate…yara,yara song. If I’m wrong? Then Mariner, my apology for thinking it and a suggestion … you- better than anyone know what a waste of time and insane- dialoguing with H4H is…He doesn’t need a dialogue (with you)…he/his IS the ONLY dialogue he feeds on and IT lives to abuse you and other bloggers.

    In other words… if there is no one listening for the tree to fall, there will be no noise. It’s been said before, do not respond (and, especially do not seek him out or focus on him {let it go). Now, if you do enjoy the H4H posts, simply carry on.)


    DD- … Once in a while H4H directs some gratuitous Niezschean “Ecce Homo” calculated b.s.- ‘Why [I/you] Write [with such] Excellence’, ‘Why I/you Am[are] So Wise’- comment every three months or so kissing ‘ecce asinus aureus’ comment whenever he senses his abuse is being noted and his status here threatened. (Oh, DD you work so hard’, Ohh DD-you deserve a network gig’; ‘No-one equals your depth’).

    -And, Jeremy Price- What happened to ‘we are discussing ways to handle [the abusive, repeated, vulgar and aggressive] comments and personal attacks? You referred to that two weeks ago.

    HT policy (as published recently) regarding comments is pretty clear on these subjects. Does it apply to the Scoop blog as well? Will individuals who repeatedly violate it be monitored, censored and have blogging rights limited/terminated as needed? (I assume since the policy is published and make the terms of use as determined by the publisher public, it enables it’s (publisher’s action on sanctions), a good thing all the way around.

    Suggestion: Reproduce and publish these basic rules in the Scoop. It will help everyone; subscribed and non-subscribed Scoop followers.

  91. Jeremy-

    Retweets? That’s not the half of it..Have you visited Tom Crean’s twitter page lately?

  92. I don’t think I started the name-calling on this thread..I didn’t call anyone a “moron” or a “dodo.”

    I began the thread with what I believed was a study in contrast between the coaches our two major programs.

    I will continue to believe we were an over-ranked team with vital elements of the “Movement” not in place to make a substantial impact/difference over last season’s team. Put Cody and Vic on the stronger backcourt we have coming in(and a legit backup center in Fisher) and you can take that #1 ranking to the bank and cash it in for a 6th banner.

    Tsao- Heaven forbid it’s not you taking hostage of a thread. You are completely off base but I won’t stoop to using an entire 1000 word entry to degrade you.

    The name-calling basically began with the “TCDS” stuff in post #14. It’s a rather old act. When people were bashing Lynch on this site, I never took it upon myself to attack fellow bloggers because they had personal issues with a coach. And as soon as anyone brings up Knight, many bring out the name-calling.

  93. Harvard, you are so controlled by your angeryou often do not even read well. I don’t even disagree (never have) about Hoosiers being “overanked” (don’t even think it matters, rankings are a hype for promotion. Your RMK posts are generally positive and I accept you don’t criticize him (you contrast him to TC and object to TC trying to rub some off his image).

    I’ve even commented on more than one post that you have good and strong basketball instincts and make very good comments at times.

    None of that is a problem; not now, not previously.

    Good Lord Harvard, I’m just tired of your fighting windmills that don’t exist (even after your admitting you had never read Don Quijote by Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra but using him just the same). And, even as you seem to apologize for turning a football thread into your basketball argument for the 643rd time in favor of IU admitting a non-qualified student who threw away a legitimate chance to be admitted (give the wasted on Patterson slot to the Groups program!) you are arguing a case fo0r a kid who no longer deserves it on the basis that he breathes in and out and that’s it, in a real classroom. Please, your self-confessed failure to take advantage of a similar situation completely disqualifies your arguments.

    And, I will bet the amount you set, allow DD or Jeremy to hold it and bet your contributions are many times the number of words as mine. (nor am I apologetic about my posts. If anyone should understand that writing is ‘my thing’ and that I enjoy writing in whole thoughts and do not consider it a ‘waste’ (in the internet).

    Listen to JP and DD’s begging you to be respectful and considerate. It is healthy for you (and, if you haven’t already, read the very sensible HT rules for comments. They do apply and are reasonable to enforce here.

  94. Sorry, I’ll take the needed timeout after this final remark.

    My compliments for Dustin have always been sincere. Jeremy is also growing in his comfort level and has given some great b-ball insights during ScoopTalks. HT hires young journalists that a very good at their profession.

    And I always thought Osterman was a top-notch writer when he was with IDS..I kid them and rib them all(past and present), but I believe they know I’m sincere when I speak of their skill sets as journalists.

  95. next to last graph should end, “…and not consider it a ‘waste’ (in the internet), it is you.”

    (I’ve never criticized your writing ‘habits’, nor will I. It is an ‘art’ hobby that captures just like painting or whittling pipes or furniture or listening to hours of opera or other good music.) Leave that aside, I have no issue recognizing it is the one area we are alike…it is good exercise for the brain.)

    Just suggesting you don’t use your ‘art’ as your weapon to mug people here.

  96. Harvard,
    Here are the polls from Feb. 25 with rankings next to them. It should be pointed out that eventual national champion Louisville had lost three straight games to Syracuse, Villanova and Georgetown in late January and hadn’t yet beat a Top 25 team (They would win at Syracuse the following week. This is the last date that Indiana held the overall No. 1. Who else could have possibly been No. 1 at this point and if Indiana wasn’t No. 1, what should they have been?

    OK, Tsao, here is that H-T comment policy. No. 5 is actually untrue because this system does not have the same functionality as the main system, but everything else is there.

    1. The comments are intended to provide insight, community conversation and civil debate.

    2. You are solely responsible for the comments you make on this site. And while we do not edit or alter any comments, we reserve the right to remove comments that do not comply with our policy. The option to make comments is a privilege and we reserve the right to revoke that privilege at anytime.

    3. We do not permit obscene, libelous, harassing, racist, hateful, offensive or violent language or images. Further, we will not allow personal attacks on news sources, other commenters or our staff. Our moderators will determine what constitutes civil criticism and what is a personal attack.

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    Now you’ve seen it, you obviously see that “personal attacks” are in the eye of the beholder, in this case, me. I tend to give you guys a lot of leeway because 1) I think deep down you all actually like fighting each other and sometimes people call each other names even in what would be considered otherwise civil debates. 2) You’re all pretty much adults and I despair of the idea of telling men old enough to be my father that they can’t call each other names. I think you guys know how to dish it out and how to take it at this point in your lives. 3) There are some fine lines here. Harvard starts criticizing Crean, certainly a public figure. Someone says he thinks Harvard’s an idiot for having his view. Harvard calls him an idiot, someone else jumps in and calls Harvard an idiot and then it turns into a 100-comment thread in which several people make what are arguably personal attacks at Harvard and Harvard makes several personal attacks back. So who is all at fault in that case? Usually, someone else insulted Harvard to get him to turn on them, but of course, he made a tired and/or ridiculous comment to get it started. So who all do I discipline in this case? How is it fair to just discipline Harvard in the cases when he’s only defending himself? Conversely, is it fair to discipline someone for telling Harvard he made a ridiculous argument when he did in fact make a ridiculous argument? More so, in this case, when it’s really just Geoff challenging Harvard’s points and carrying it over 50-some posts and some posters find the whole thing annoying, what rules have even been violated?
    So I guess I’ll put this up to everyone, not just Tsao, what do you guys really want the comments section of this blog to be and what are you willing to sacrifice for that? How much censorship do you think we should really do and how much are you willing to subject yourself to that? Because frankly, if you want us to take down everything that might be offensive and discipline everyone who has made a personal attack, none among the regulars are innocent.

  97. Except me. Right?

    I’ve been on record before that I’m not in favor of censorship unless it is absolutely warranted. But seldom do I see anything on here so vulgar or disrespectful that it warrants removal. I don’t recall any of those kinds of posts that weren’t eventually taken down.

    Granted, I have a pretty thick skin, am not easily rattled (especially by faceless, anonymous bloggers no matter how familiar you may feel at this point,) and I don’t get offended by much. I’ve learned to skim and/or skip threads that have devolved into repetitive poopy pants tit-for-tats, because by that point you pretty much know what you’re going to get. If I feel like being entertained, I may go back and read them later.

    If I find something on here offensive, chances are the overwhelming majority of Scoopsters will also find it offensive. In my opinion, Dustin and Jeremy have done a fine job of letting threads take on a life of their own, policing them only when they get a bit too far out of hand. As they say in sports, the best refereed games are generally the ones where you don’t notice the ref at all. I say keep it up, guys. I like the way this site has been moderated.

  98. I was going to exit this thread, but since you posed a question, I’ll attempt to answer.

    Anyone that took more than a casual observation at the schedule knew that our Big 10 season was weighted with far more tests in the latter weeks of the season. If you look at the record from February 7th forward, there were signs the team had vulnerabilities. If we don’t have a ball roll off the rim at Michigan, we end up going 6-5 instead of 7-4 in those last five weeks of the season(includes the two Big 10 tournament games).

    It was a great accomplishment to win the Big 10 tournament, but it was seriously up for grabs between 4 or 5 teams heading into the final week(Michigan, Indiana, MSU, OSU, and Wisconsin).

    And maybe you can answer a few of my questions:

    Other than Yogi, was the “Movement” over-hyped?

    And would Patterson, Perea(with a game anywhere near the billed expectations), and a Hollowell that didn’t have to catch up speed after the 9 game suspension, have made us much stronger #1 in the final weeks a very long season?

    Was there not an opportunity cost when we couldn’t give Perea and Hollowell a chance to catch up to speed by giving them adequate PT when opponents were preseason cupcakes or weaker Big 10 teams?

    Was Crean willing to risk losing tougher preseason games and early Big 10 contests(even during the softer part of the Big 10 schedule)and, consequently take hits/dips in standing/rankings by playing those that had been stymied their important early season “Movement” minutes?

    Lastly, thank you for defending my right to defend myself when I’m attacked by fellow bloggers. We are all grown men, but some of the personality disorder stuff is getting rather vicious. I am biting my tongue and trying to keep it civil…But when I’m ridiculed for not reading a famous novel from Spanish literature, I think it’s pretty obvious the condescension to go along with the “moron” and “dodo” references.

  99. Well-said Dustin. I say leave it as it is. You hit the nail on the head: all of us secretly love the hemming and hawing. This is why every one of the core group of regulars continues to repeat the same mind-numbing diatribes, or “schticks,” as Harvard would call them, as we’ve been doing for the last 6 years, no matter who might be arguing to the contrary at any given moment.

    Strangely, the more familiar our arguments have become to one another, the longer they have gotten. For Tsao, for example, it is now impossible to write anything less than 750 words (by the way Tsao, your suggestion that Harvard and I are the same person is asinine; ask Dustin where our respective IP addresses are coming from to clear any doubts).

  100. Harvard, don’t be a dodobird. No one ever ridiculed you for not reading Don Quijote. Podunker came up with the incredible analogy comparing you to Don Quijote, which ranks as perhaps the all-time best comparison in the history of mankind.

  101. The past is the past. Embrace it. I will never understand why you beat so many horses down Harvard. It’s beyond dead. Practically unrecognizable. We just don’t care anymore about Sampson, Ron Patterson, Crean, his faith. Let it go. Do you let things go beyond this blog!

  102. Do you hold on to things outside of this blog, as you do here is what the above post should have said at the end.

  103. It’s the best comparison because you want to use it as ridicule.

    Maybe someone can find something from literature of a man that lives behind his own perfect portrait, hides behind the ugly mutating reality that exists in the attic(his multiple screen names evolving into the boils a rotting and obsessed soul)…? Pick up a copy of Dorian Gray.

    And now that they’ve banned Remora/Rico from Scoop, it’s a bit easier for Dorian Mariner to use Podunker as part of his Spanish Tag-team knowing Harvard no longer has the same equal advantage a clever Remora that saw the truth your portrait…? Ya think?

  104. Wow, I take the kid over to the grandparents and come back to this…

    Tsao – I think the answer is no. But I think I probably should… Just can’t help responding. Plus it keeps me sharp for when the season comes and we have a more interesting and wider array of topics to comment on.
    You love to hit me with the NBA thing… I can’t watch regular season games. I’m fine with the style, but can’t stand the lack of passion. I’m fine with the NBA in the playoffs. But don’t get it twisted, if the seasons overlapped differently and the NBA finals were played in December, and Game 7 of the Finals was going up against IU v Savannah St, I would without question be glued to the IU game until the end, even up 40.

    Harvard – (sorry Tsao) I will address those questions for Dustin.

    1) rankings. I hope you didn’t think that was a counterpoint to Dustin’s point about when and why IU was #1. It would be nice if you just conceded every once in a while when you are clearly wrong. That’s basically what you just did, in talking about the last 5 weeks of the season (when IU wasn’t ranked #1).

    2) The Movement is still waaaayyyy to early to call. They were only “over”-hyped by IU fans, and maybe IU media. And hey, we had reason to rejoice, it marked the turning of the tide in recruiting. They weren’t being talked about on the national level, though. It didn’t have any transcendent stars… It didn’t have 4 or 5 of the top 10 players. It had some nice players with NBA potential, but no one-and-dones. No one outside of Indiana (and its fans) was factoring it in much to why IU would be good. A class with kids ranked #24 (Yogi), #42 (Hollowell), #71 (Perea), and 2 kids outside the top 100, coming onto a team with experienced leaders and all-American players, that isn’t a recipe for “transformational”… Not as freshman. They need a couple years and some room to spread their wings. We’ll know what they are in a couple years. I predict they will be a very good class that will produce 3 impact players on a perennially top 10 team. Unless you are getting classes like UK does, and KU did this year, you should be pretty damn happy with that.

    3) will you please stop inserting “Hollowell” for “Jurkin”… You sound like you don’t even pay attention to IU hoops… Like some Establishment hack who is reading a script from an intern who’s favorite sport is lacrosse, but wants to have “FSN South” on their résumé. I know that’s not true… I just looking out for you.

    4) Now that we’re back on track, the answer is yes, we probably would have been better had we had the chance to play Perea and “Jurkin” in the non-conf season, had they not been suspended and had Jurkin not also been hurt. But what’s your point? They won a bunch of games early… They were ranked #1 early… They won a bunch of games in the middle…. They were ranked #1 in the middle…. They lost a bunch of games at the end… They lost the #1 ranking for good. Every time throughout the season that IU deserved to lose the #1 ranking they lost it… Other teams couldn’t hold it either and IU would win a big game or 2 and earn it back.

    Maybe the problem Harvard, is that you internally confuse “being their best” with “#1″… I would never argue with you that that team didn’t reach its potential. They certainly didn’t. For a multitude of factors, some of which were out of their control. However, in order to be “#1” all you have to do is be better than everybody else. And IU proved that for most of the regular season, for a multitude of reasons, some of which were out of their control.. If you look at the season as a voter there is absolutely no arguing that IU was a deserved #1 in the weeks they were voted as such.

  105. Harvard, in case you didn’t notice, #14 was not mine. Not my style to use ‘moron’ or ‘dodo’.

    Geoff- OK, just noting that you sometimes complain about Harvard when, in fact, you do seek him out and do try to provoke him. Glad it keeps you sharp. Give your kid two years, he’ll make you even sharper.

    Mariner, I ‘wondered’ would be a much more accurate description. For good or bad, I’ve said what I had to say with one screen name; trusting screen names here is not easy. I wasn’t accusing, merely wondering the possibility out loud. That’s why it was said directly…to get the ‘suspicion’ out of the way.

    DD- I didn’t think allowing a ‘free hand’ was a good decision nearly two years ago and don’t think so now. In the long run, I think, it’s hurt the blog. At one point there were good exchanges between many of the same individuals plus several who ceased and are missed; and others who opine much less frequently. Probably (IMHO), driven away by the hostility and some of the vulgarity that (probably) began with Laffy and (though, in all fairness, not entirely caused by him) was not set aside after his exit. We were never able to put it back on its tracks and it lost a lot of the content.

    Too bad. Now, it is what it is.

  106. I won’t continue on it, Geoff. I think we were a very weak #1 and the early record was not indicative of where the weaknesses were glaring. Without Patterson’s added defensive skills and an entire freshman glass that was originally envisioned and hyped to be much more than what was becoming observed reality on the court(at least in the short term), there were holes in the boat. 6-5 over our last eleven games without a ball rolling off the rim at Michigan. The beef of our Big 10 schedule was at the end of the season. By that time, the signs were stronger that the only major difference from the previous season’s team was at point guard. 8/10 of the season had passed us by and there was not going to be a legit backup for Zeller while entering into the stanza that would give him and the rest of the team the greatest test physically and mentally. Come on, man…How can you not admit that much more was expected out of the original five from the “Movement?”

    You’re right…I was inserting Hollowell by mistake(Jeremy sat out quite a few game because of personal issues. Seemed like he was in the doghouse for quite a while). Jurkin was a non-factor.

  107. Mariner-

    It was only a few weeks ago you complimented me for taking the high road. I don’t even remember the issue..

    And maybe you had a chance to do the same on this thread. Did you take the high road? Did you pay it forward?

  108. Wow, Harvard, 5:36 AM? Is there a newborn in the house, or was it simply a restless night for ya?

    Not sure what the “high road” reference is to. Maybe it’s about the dodobird comments. All I have to say is, sometimes, a little nursery school name-calling is the best way to show someone that they take themselves and their “schticks” way too seriously. Anyone here will vouch that your Crean rants definitely have that tone of someone who is a little obsessive/deranged in their attitudes about a sports figure, and needs to relax.

    Anyway, sorry if it offended you. Deep down, you know that I know that the Scoop would be a boring wasteland without you around.

  109. Bring number 1 certainly does not mean you are the best. As I recall, Gonzaga even briefly held the poll position. Did a single voter actually think they were the best team in the country?

  110. You make some valid points, whether true or not, they are at least up for discussion. If you want to soften your stance to “They were a weak #1” or even “#1 by default” or “in any other year they wouldnt have been #1”, I wouldn’t be able to debate you much there. But to say, as you were before, that the Establishment was rigging the ranking system by inflating IU was just completely off base. It’s very simple… When they deserved to be #1, either by their own accomplishments, or by the failings of other teams, they were… When they didn’t deserve the ranking they weren’t ranked there.

    Now, this is where your myopia is apparent…. The Movement was ONLY hyped WITHIN the IU ethosphere. NO ONE outside of our immediate fanbase or media was hyping it, nor did they have any reason to. By blue-blood standards it was just an average class. Going forward that will be an average class for us. The reason it was hyped WITHIN our fanbase was because we weren’t used to it. We had been getting scraps since EJ, and throughout our history it wasn’t like we were getting multiple Top 100 recruits in a given class. It was more hyped INTERNALLY because it was a class primarily made of native Hoosiers.

    Listen there is no shame in buying into the hype. However, if you thought that they were, collectively, going to be one of the major reasons IU was successful in 2012-13 then that’s on you. It means you are too close to the situation. It means you lack perspective.

    I continue to be excited about The Movement because I wasn’t counting on them for last season. I was counting on Zeller, Dipo, Hulls, Watford, and Sheehey, and then to a lesser extent, Yogi. Hollowell and Perea fell into a group with Abell, Creek and Elston where you are hoping for quality depth, but uncertain of what your going to get. I wasn’t counting on Jurkin to play at all. Going forward I think they will be important contributors, and I fully expect that. Last year didn’t damper my enthusiasm much in that regard.

    For some reason you have this thing in your head that because an A-HOPE story got published, and because DD “slobbered” over Perea, that we had some “over”-hyped class…. It just wasn’t/isn’t the case. We had numbers 24, 42, 71, 131, and unranked….

    That is a far cry from this year’s class 13, 34, 54, and 99… If we get Exum and Goodluck to go with JBJ then more will be expected from that class as well…

    (I am talking about national perspective here, since most talking heads pay more attention to the rankings than the individuals and how they fit a program, which is understandable because that would be ridiculously time-consuming)

    The Movement certainly isn’t like some of the super-classes that you see forming these days. It just isn’t. So I’m sorry you kept your scope of information and perspective so narrow. You clearly didn’t have an understanding of the “hype” that The Movement was getting. You bought what your chosen media sources and limited forum environment sold you… Hook line and sinker. But don’t go placing that on the Establishement, because they could have cared less about The Movement.

    Finally, Hollowell only missed 3 games. (I think the progression is single, couple, few, several, many… Per usual you jumped to hyperbole and used “quite a few” instead of fact-checking and using the much more appropriate “few”.

  111. This is kinda like the Florida Stand-your-ground law.

    Feel as if you are threatened?
    You may activate your mouse and keyboard.

    I like the real name usage with the last comment. That could temper responses.

  112. Strong recruiting class could lead to Indiana rebound

    By Greg Rosenstein, USA Today

    Updated 6/27/2011 6:15 PM


    Ron Patterson is not shy when it comes to predictions.

    When asked about Indiana University’s 2012 recruiting class – currently ranked No. 1 by and ESPN – he simply said “Welcome to ‘The Movement.'”

    And while the nickname representing Patterson and his four future teammates may seem bold now, perhaps it’s not farfetched to think they can be the group to return the Hoosiers to national prominence.

    “It would mean a lot to bring this program back,” Patterson, a highly touted shooting guard from Indianapolis, said at the recent NBPA Top 100 Camp in Charlottesville, Va. “We’re going to make a statement when we go there.”

    The Hoosiers have commitments from top in-state players in all four high school classes, including 2011 McDonalds All-American Cody Zeller (Washington, Ind.). But it’s the 2012 class that truly has the Indiana faithful excited.

    “They’ve made a commitment to forging relationships early with guys,” Telep said. “They did it with a lot of kids from one AAU team, which has been beneficial for them. When Bobby Knight was at Indiana, that team was Bloomington Red. Those kids went to Indiana in mass.

    “Now that team is Indiana Elite, and it’s the same thing. It’s a pipeline that has paid big dividends for them.”

    The 2012 class for Indiana not only is talented, but also fill needs. All five positions are addressed.

    How quickly the Indiana “pipeline” was plugged. Pretty sure USA Today is a nationally distributed paper. Pretty sure I could find dozens and dozens of additional national articles(many from the spring and summer of 2012)that talk about the “Movement.”

    I think by late summer of 2012, the reality was that most Hoosier fans were ahead of the national drumbeat on this class. Most saw that Perea and Jurkin were likely considerably over-rated prospects(basically based on raw athleticism) whose games were not maturing. Most knew we were duped into believing Cody had brought the best players in the state on his heels. When we lost Patterson, most knowledgeable Indiana fans realized this supposed wave(reminiscent of Knight’s “Bloomington Red”) and floodgate of recruits(how many bloggers can remember the hundreds of comments that claimed “the floodgates had opened” at Indiana?)had dwindled down to two legit talents(Yogi Ferrell and Jeremy Hollowell).

    Please, please don’t tell me that national outlets don’t pick up on Indiana buzz and weren’t paying very close attention to the 2012 class that was premiered to give a critical shot of turbo boost to an already threatening Hoosier team. Please don’t tell me that the slime tactics in an article by ESPN featuring headlines on sketchy recruiting ties and relationships with A-Hope were not breaking into the national press to the same drumbeat of excitement that was building with the “floodgates/Movement/”Indiana pipeline.” What they, the national Establishment didn’t desire to temper was the expectations of the talent not coming anywhere close to the reality of the talent knowing full well the class had gone bust.

  113. Greg Rosenstein is an IU grad and worked at the IDS through the 2011 season. USA Today obviously had to let him write the story, but he’s part of the IU beat more than he’s part of the establishment.

  114. And with Fisher, multi-positional players, and more wings on our roster than a Buffalo Wild Wings menu, do you honestly think this is analogous to “start from scratch” roster that will allow for Perea and Jurkin to acquire the PT necessary to blossom?

    A couple other 3-star solid no-name guys with some readiness to step onto court and contribute immediately(a Matt Roth bomber ..or a Ron Patterson “in your gut” defender…or one of those scrubs from Mars/Northwest Indiana that grind their way into national championship games)to stir the pot instead of painting billboards and feeding the national papers our own manufactured hype and overly hyped renaissance coach his personal resurrection stage…just a couple solid and humble performers to keep grounded the prima donna heads from getting too big and too infected with “going home” parties and NBA contracts in waiting, and you’re watching a banner hanging ceremony come this fall.

  115. Harvard,
    I defy you to find one human being on the planet who has met Victor Oladipo who believes he is a prima donna. That is what you’re saying with the last sentence. Just because I wrote one headline on a ScoopTalk…

  116. This town hasn’t seen a championship game in a decade. Bloomington hasn’t experienced a banner in time period approaching three decades.

    Oladipo deserves a ton of credit for proving all the doubters wrong. Time will tell if his NBA game will blend in unison with all the hype(some even calling him the next MJ). But here’s the deal…Indiana and Tom Crean believed in Victor Oladipo. I hear a lot of talk about faith…Within faith, is there not loyalty? Within faith, is there not journeys completely fulfilled? Without a chance to wear the college uniform our irrelevant school, would the headlines next to his name be the same?

    This isn’t Duke. This isn’t UNC…This isn’t MSU for the past 10 years. The young men that will never sniff an NBA contract that played through the fires, the darkest Hoosier hour, the embarrassing shellackings, the ridicule from coast to coast, and the decimation talk(guys like Pritchard, Danny Moore, Taber, Elston, Verdell Jones, Roth, D.J. White, Capobianco, Mo Creek, Jeremiah Rivers) never saw going home parties.

    Everything is possible because they believed in Indiana. Who on the planet stops Indiana from lofting the sixth banner if Cody and Vic return? Where is the faith in those that got the living crap kicked out of them because they still believed in those old dusty banners?

  117. Harvard
    1) There was no “going-home party.” There was a headline and there were questions from the media. That does not constitute a party. It’s a story line that doesn’t carry nearly the relevance you think it does and that you need to get over.
    2) The presumption that Oladipo was not loyal to Crean presumes that Crean expected or even asked Oladipo to stay. He didn’t. In fact, it’s pretty evident that Crean recruited presuming that it was possible he could lose Oladipo. Neither Troy Williams nor Noah Vonleh is on the team if Crean presumed Zeller and Oladipo would come back. Oladipo had a degree and he was going to be a top five pick. No one was attempting to talk him out of it.
    3.) Just as we didn’t know what weaknesses last year’s team was going to have until it got on the floor, we don’t know what weaknesses this team will have until it gets on the floor. It’s really, really young, and you won’t know how much they’ve lost with Watford and Hulls, etc. until the season starts.

  118. But here’s also the deal…I don’t think they’re alone. There is very little faith and loyalty in the game anymore. We start inflating heads when many these “stars to be” are in the 8th grade.

    There’s very few willing to risk anything for the those that take a risk on them the same. Maybe that’s a very negative attitude, but when I see the finger pointing and all the consumption with those that “wrecked” things, I wonder when someone is just going to quietly step up to the plate, risk and postpone a bit of their own chances a giant backyard swimming pool with gold leaf lawn chairs, finish the job at hand, and do it for somebody other than the guy in the mirror. The “Movement” was the child in the womb. The big mothers left for their NBA reality show before the nurturing could even begin.

    I think we missed the opportunity and sold a lot of t-shirts and videos.

  119. Neither Troy Williams nor Noah Vonleh is on the team if Crean presumed Zeller and Oladipo would come back.

    Aren’t you the guy that coined “scholly crunch?” You honestly believe Crean would be publicly scolded if he kicks Etherington and Jurkin off to JC programs if Cody and Vic come back? Come on, Dusty. You know how these things work. You know how butts are covered. We covered Bobby’s butt for decades…How long were insiders covering Joe Paterno’s butt?

    If Cody and Vic wanted banners, they wouldn’t need to ask a mediocre coach for his approval to return. By not returning, they pretty much have labeled him a recruiter and nothing else.

    Maybe we should get together for a couple beers at Trojan Horse to discuss at greater length. We’re appearing a blog hogs and you’re not making any friends by feeding the beast.

  120. You know me with lunch dates…Could I ever live up to the figure in the Scoop wax museum? You’d be disappointed.

  121. Victor is the stereotype of a player that Dean Smith would have sat down in his office and said, “Son, it’s time for you to go.”

    It’s one of the things Coach Smith was known for. He’d encourage a player to go pro when he thought the time was best for them. Hard to get much better than being the number 2 player in the draft. He always claimed he’d never encourage a player to stay for the sake of the team if it was going to be to the detriment of the player. He’d have never, ever encouraged Vic to stay in school.

    Then again, who ever thought Dean Smith was a good coach?

  122. I guess you just have low threshold for hype Harvard….

    Hype is when you don’t root for a school but you still can’t escape their clippings… It’s not when you are a lifelong fan and seek out 300 word blurbs.

    By the way we got some early press because we got early commits and were ranked the #1 class until all the top recruits started signing. Then we dropped out of the top 10… It’s a good class… a good foundation… But freakin Providence ended up with a class ranked 5 places higher than us.

    Just to prove your wide perspective to us, please enlighten me on the virtues of the Friars 2012 recruiting class… Certainly if they were that good they must have been over-hyped.

  123. And had Dean Smith seen his “elite” basketball school go without a banner for almost 30 years?

    Who in their honest pair of shorts would have ever believed t-shirts, videos promoted on the pages this great website, and all the ballyhoo proclaiming “floodgates” and “Movements” and next “Hakeems” with pterodactyl wingspans and preseason POY poster boys at signing days in Washington straight out of Hollywood scripts to rival a Milan hickory story of a “savior” of ghostly days of banners in distant memory a kid that refused to go to Duke on NC …(take breath here)…and all the “dominoes” that were falling into our Bloomington laps forcing Bobby into those tired old bitter stares his rabid jealousy our new “Crean & Crimson” played to “This is Indiana” YoutTube songs so catchy as to make an entire Hoosier nation from Seattle to Kennebunkport, Maine, to hum it an entire year in their brain…and taking all of college basketball by storm, the parting of Joyce Meyers knees and Jeff Meyer’s Red Sampson Seas would have equated “WE’RE BACK!!” to making it as deep as a team from Valparaiso with Bryce Drew running the show? Now I’m no Homer(Drew, that is) but if that ain’t a Hindenburg’s worth of hype turned into a David Stern enema bottle for the Establishment nothingness of his Nobody Cares Anymore league of hotel maid chases, then sue me for my delusional lack of perspective.

  124. Number of posts has just reached Bruce Sutter’s lifetime batting average. I’m now throwing the heater ball.

  125. It’s the best… Despite an overwhelming (safe and flat) plateau of logic and fact you cling to its cliff of speculation and conspiracy. That is why you get called names like moron and dodo, Harvey.

  126. It’s a conspiracy that the Valparaiso Crusaders made a Sweet 16?

    It’s a conspiracy that the Ball State Cardinals made a Sweet 16?

    It’s a conspiracy that the Purdue Boilermakers made Sweet 16’s in 2009 & 2010?

    It’s a conspiracy that the Butler Bulldogs made back-to-back championship games in 2010 & 2011?

    Never in the history of the candy-stripes has there been so much hype and carnival for such absence of dignified, humble, and proud big shoulders. It’s no conspiracy that those that helped create all that hype didn’t stay and finish the job. And from the man on the bench…? And I think it’s becoming more obvious to fans not living in denial(and you alluded to it plenty in one of your posts above)that when you don’t have the noggin for the game, then you live by the hype, the honorary ceremonies fro Steve Alford, the pictures in Cook Hall, the sponge baths of self-anointment, the microphone forever attached to the chin, the witch hunts, the prayer, the program wreckers, the slogans, the tweets, the Bobby handshake, the Sweet 16 your satisfied effort, and the fattest tongue to slop up coins of some NBA draft picks to go along with the conspiracy.

    And Dustin finishes every LiveChat during Hoosier games with “Tijan Forever.” Along with “Going Home” parties, it’s certainly no conspiracy that they have Indiana representing all the altruism of the game with little the banners and privilege they keep locked up behind the chastity belt their Establishment castles the left Bloomington in the dust when Bobby grabbed the arm of one of their own.

  127. 26 years without a banner, to be exact, and RMK is responsible for exactly half of that time. 13 years is a long, long time for an elite coach to go without a championship. Dean Smith’s drought was 11 years, with some final fours in between. Coach K had an 8-year drought, a period that included 5 disappointing endings in the sweet sixteen and a final. RMK’s drought included 5 trips to the sweet sixteen or beyond, but also included early round losses to Pepperdine, Southwest Missouri State, College of the Beehive, Cremberling A&M, Virginia Women’s Academy etc etc

    WIth back-to-back sweet sixteens, Crean has this bunch trending upwards. The sky is not falling, despite what Harvard might say. It is in fact looking blue and sunny, which is why “Coppertone Tom” is applying the sunblock and the engines are primed, lubed and ready with ValvoCrean.

  128. Harvard,
    “And Dustin finishes every LiveChat during Hoosier games with “Tijan Forever.” Along with “Going Home” parties, it’s certainly no conspiracy that they have Indiana representing all the altruism of the game with little the banners and privilege they keep locked up behind the chastity belt their Establishment castles the left Bloomington in the dust when Bobby grabbed the arm of one of their own.”

    Did you pull a muscle trying to connect that many metaphors? You do realize that sentence doesn’t make sense, yes?

  129. During that last decade plus of Bobby K’s tenure it seemed like players just wanted the season to be over. There’s no way of knowing that, of course, but you could certainly observe what came across as listlessness on the court as the season wound down. It seemed to start in February, they’d sleep walk through the Big Ten Tourney (when there was one), and just seemed to go through the motions at the Big Dance.

    Just my impression, and it’s probably wrong, but the results are certainly consistent with that observation. College basketball is definitely a grind and it’s really tough to maintain focus over a 30+ games season.

  130. Slightly pulled a left groin muscle. But with the correction made(Establishment castles that left Bloomington in the dust), I think the sentence made perfectly good sense. I’m not claiming Oswald didn’t act alone. I’m simply claiming their are many working in the halls of papers around Bloomington that enjoy watching Indiana struggle to find the old luster its once might Midwest dynasty of hoops. Do I think you’re one of those people? Not really. Kellenberger? Korman? Might as well pull back Seth’s covers and let them cozy under his Establishment sheets. They love to paint Indiana as cornfed blowbags and the coach we currently have in place gives them all the reaffirmation and ammunition they need. Put a microphone ten feet from him and it’s more material than Sarah Palin at a Katie Couric smirk buffet. Yes, Dustin..You do occasionally fall into the trappings of the Establishment smirkfest. You don’t believe you get any straight answers from Harvard? How could you forget Smirkapalooza at Northwestern? And how did I not remember Zellerpalooza in my post #153? You should know know better than to to question ball movement and how coach attacks a zone, right? Why? Because Tommy is Bobby and you don’t ask Tommy questions that you would never ask Bobby…and Because it’s Indiana and “Because it just moves.” Yes, “It just moves…”(insert Catie Kouric facial expression here to Palin’s “I read plenty of magazines” response). You have to keep them one in your book of Crean memories as you one day begin your ascent the Establishment sports journalism ladder.


    I like how a “drought” is five Sweet 16 trips or “beyond”…Key Word = beyond. A Final Four in ’92 and an Elite 8 in ’93. Bobby generally had a Final Four team every five years. The so-called “drought” went a couple years, but the man probably was losing a bit of his edge.

    That being said, if I had a complimentary $15.00 gift certificate for the number of times I heard bloggers on IDS and Scoop claim that Davis should get zero credit for the team that made it to the championship game in 2002 because they were all kids that came to play for Knight, I could have enough pork tenderloin sandwiches to tile the rooftop of Assembly Hall.

    Hey, I have no problem admitting Davis was a better coach than the “tired” General. Bobby had grown tired of kissing prima donna butt. Times were changing and the man could not change with the narcissism shift from coaches to players. Bobby would have probably bowed out in the first round with Jeffries & Co.. Crean is a great coach for this era. He’ll butt-kiss his “sleeping giants of the NBA” all the way to their NBA multimillion signing..He’ll even give personal head massages in Bloomington if they happen to have a playoff game in Indy ….then blabber some new slogan in our ears, put in a 3-way to Christ and Joyce, it’s good for another contract extension until 2030.

  131. “He was not given to fits of giggles….”

    Hype? Obsession? Floodgates? Manifest Destiny? ScoopTalks from the Casa de Kellenberger? “Huge, this is huge!” Expectations so high that we’re willing to have babies crying in the background of the Scoop Censor King because Hakeem has arrived with Cody! And check out Dusty’s statement explaining why the entire 2012 class has a reason to come to Bloomington at the 3:25 mark…Because a “pro level guy that’s gonna be there?” Never. Hindenburg level hype? Never. One would think Cody was Dr. J and Hanner was Hakeem …and Oladipo? Of course, he’s already been dubbed the next M.J.

  132. Dustin- You really should have that “Oh my god” video removed from all of cyberspace…If you listen from beginning to end, it’s almost giggly tragic in the comedic level of hype turned into absurdity. So consumed by the next Hakeem your own manufactured storybook dream, it’s as if hype demons have gone full possession into your souls.

    What I still can’t figure out is the ‘why’ and the ‘where’ it comes from….But if it’s Hanner Perea that made you adopt Indiana in your heart, then I’m happy for you. You let yourself get infected with the game we love and you found something deeper in your own value systems beyond winning and banners that brought you into our home to stay. And, at the end of the day, that’s why “It’s Indiana.” And at the end of the day, that’s why I’m in your corner…You’re not so into yourself as to not be vulnerable of the heart….You are forever a Hoosier now.

  133. Back to back Sweet 16’s mean progress Harvard. It means we are moving in the right direction. It’s cool if you aren’t satisfied with that. It’s cool if you bought into the hype too much and got let down. Just shut up about it already. And quit with the make-believe BS. It’s not even interesting. It’s just stupid.

    I know deep down you care about being taken seriously. You arent Bobskijo. you arent just a troll only looking to stir things up. You want some of the spaghetti you throw against the wall to stick and for us to say, “wow, now that’s an interesting original thought…” Just when it doesn’t stick stop throwing it against the wall…. You just look like a moron. If you say something worthy of praise we’ll praise you. Then you can bask in those moments.

  134. If you call me a “moron” once more, I will not cook you breakfast the next time you spend the night.

  135. Harvard finally taking Geoff seriously as he accepts his praise.

    We are now up to Mitch William’s batting average.

  136. No one has dubbed Dipo “The next MJ”

    This is where it starts… Harvard completely misrepresents a comment or idea or article or announcers statement… Then he continues saying it until it becomes fact in his brain… Then he builds other ridiculous arguments and conspiracies around the fallacy…. Then those become fact in his brain after several repetitions…

    Harvard, you are the one creating your own “hype” by making crap up and using extreme hyperbole.

  137. Geoff,

    Give up. Don’t waste time with this. Some people just live in a fairyland.

    There you go again with the Christ and Joyce references again. You can’t stop. Your complicated man. Worse then a woman.

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