Hoosier Morning

Indiana’s one-point win over LIU-Brooklyn was one of those nights Tom Crean warned folks about before the season started, Dustin wrote.

Will Sheehey helped rescue an Indiana team that has to learn how to win with what it’s got, I wrote.

The IU women’s basketball team scored 85 points for the second straight game to survive a late rally by IPFW, we reported.

Depth has helped prevent a drop off in performance by the IU offensive line, Dustin wrote.

It’s must-win time for the Indiana men’s soccer team at the Big Ten Tournament, but the Hoosiers still have high hopes, Andy writes.

A dismal defense has been Indiana football’s downfall heading into the Wisconsin game, Andy Baggot of the Wisconsin State Journal writes.

The Badgers are ready to run against the Hoosiers, which is nothing new, Jeff Potrykus of the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel writes.

Former Butler coach Brad Stevens still views Cody Zeller as the one who got away, A. Sherrod Blakely of ComcastSportsNet New England writes.

Victor Oladipo talks about adjusting to life as a rookie in the NBA, in this video interview with SLAMonline.com.

John Calipari’s dream of an unbeaten season died with a loss to Michigan State, one that left players crying in the locker room “like against Indiana last year” (except it was two years ago and that series is dead), Eric Crawford of WDRB.com writes.

Wisconsin passed a rare early season test at home against Florida, Tom Oates of the Wisconsin State Journal writes.

Running with the notion of being rescued, here’s The Alarm with “Rescue Me.”


  1. I read the linked article and found nothing of Eric Crawford saying that the IU vs. UK “series is dead.”

    So I’m to assume that’s your opinion? Why don’t you elaborate on that opinion, write an editorial, and discuss where you believe the reasons for the death of the series.

    Maybe discuss how Crean and Calipari can schmooze and share corporate jets while taking their sounds on a weekend trip to Chicago but can’t get their selfish a$$es to restore a rivalry that existed much longer than their own egotistical stubborn relevance could ever compare.

    It’s fine to hate on Calipari for the way he corrals the top talent and to despise his NBA farm system that is working the NCAA rules to his advantage…But I tend to believe the loss of the rivalry game is on both their heads. And it is also my humble opinion that you should strive to be objective to give any explanation to why you would agree or disagree with the premise both are to blame rather than play the shallow drums of your Indiana audience.

    Crean likely thinks Izzo walks on water…We’re too good for Calipari(at least in terms of giving a a great basketball game to the fans, but not weekend airline trips with their sons to watch former prima donnas they’ve coached play on the pro stage), so why isn’t Izzo a schmuck?

  2. Covered last year ad nauseum Harvard. All the questions you are asking him to answer in your proposed op ed were well documented at that time. Jeremy will most likely follow the advice he has given you and not beat a dead horse… Over… And over… And over….

  3. That Kentucky team would have beaten us by 40 points..That’s why Mr. Crean is avoiding the game. We’re playing the Washington Huskies on a neutral site that UW is willing to travel 2859 miles…We’re willing to travel our team 800 miles to that neutral site. 3700 miles combined miles for that match-up.

    UK and MSU both traveled a little over 200 miles to play at the United Center. Could it be that the Hoosiers couldn’t draw the same crowd to help pack a United Center? Not enough one-and-done talent on our team to sell all those seats? Sure looked like a ton of fans from each school at that game…Sure looked like everyone had a blast. Hard to explain how that sort of venue would be a bad thing for the tiny hick state of Indiana and our candy stripes…Of course, if we get mopped off the floor…Tom Crean’s Hoosiers look more like Valparaiso than the Knight teams he gets to rub his “because” oil all over himself while judging the ‘scum’ and ‘program wreckers’ of college basketball.

  4. And final thought here on the “dead” rivalry game..

    I think the best way to confront the scum of the game is to get mopped off the floor….By not playing Kentucky, the outrage that would result from blowouts(the Indiana fan base is nationwide and has more clout than the Establishment would like us to believe) and the embarrassment on the scoreboard at the expense the Midwestern school epitomizing doing things the right way in terms of the “student” being paramount in the student-athlete, would cause far more heat at the doorstep of Calipari than the schoolyard squabble and acting job Crean is selling. He is protecting his friend by not playing the game. The rivalry as an equal contest cannot exist under the current system and the way the NCAA hunts down minor violators of stupid rules(e.g. 3-way calling limits)yet refuses to even the playing field when it comes to academics lining up with the one-and-done feature. By not playing Kentucky…By not getting our butts mopped off the floor, we do nothing to bring that ugliness of the stacked deck that now exists in college basketball favoring coaches like Calipari at a school doing nothing to make itself proud its true state heritage in basketball.

    Hiding from that completely unfair advantage is no different than burying any unjust or discriminatory practice. I’m willing to watch my team get mopped off the floor to bring the joke that is college basketball to the forefront. Pretending that Jeff Meyer is the evil villain of hoops is ludicrous in comparison and does nothing but divert attention away from the real scum and the real disparities turning college hoops into a few NBA teams against the rest that still believe in the what college should provide outside of riches for a handful.

    Maybe we should “class” it up based on one-and-dones like they did with Indiana high school hoops? Where is our protection from blowouts? Where is our blue ribbon when it’s obvious we will never be able to compete with the big boys at UK with their NBA farm system?

    1. Harvard,
      Perhaps dormant would have been a better word than dead, but either way it doesn’t currently exist and rather doubt it will again anytime in the next couple of years.

      That said, I think it rather misplaced to suggest Crean’s avoiding the game. It was slated to continue on a home-and-home basis before Calipari suddenly decided he’d rather not be the subject of further court stormings in Bloomington. Could the series continue and should it continue? Absolutely, and either one of the coaches could make it so by giving in to the other’s preference. But instead we have the proverbial line in the sand, which neither side will cross, so … dead.

      And lastly, timing is everything. Had last year’s Indiana team played Kentucky in Lexington, on a neutral court or on the moon last December, the Hoosiers would’ve likely won handily. Michigan State, with a veteran-laden lineup was the perfect antidote for this young and still evolving Kentucky squad (which I’m afraid will be scary good by March if they keep their heads on straight and avoid injury). Indiana on the other hand, would probably have been dealt a bitter defeat this time around. And so it will likely continue with the ebb and flow of college basketball combined with the risk/reward of Calipari’s “unconventional” recruiting style. But that would be the fun of the series continuing, to see the schools trade shots from year to year, and next year would be more fun than most with Blackmon at Indiana and Lyles at Kentucky, but unless something drastic happens, we’ll never see it. That fault lies with the coaches and the ADs at both schools.

  5. And I would also argue that the main reason for the new hand-checking rules is so the NBA teams disguised as college teams can somehow be slowed down when playing the 95% all the other Little Sisters of the Division 1 Poor. The NCAA put the stall on the game…It’s Milan vs. Muncie Central(Kentucky) ..Can’t contain the talent disparities with a shot clock anymore…? Let’s try to even the playing field with a whistle every 10 seconds. Keep hiding the ugly truth of the joke that is now college basketball.

  6. Jeremy-

    I think we both understand that our chance is Lexington last year would have been an anomaly based on the level of one talent from one Indiana savior recruit that may not come through Assembly Hall doors in another 20 years. Crean understood perfectly the long term odds in a skewed system the NCAA is allowing to exist. Hiding from the inevitable blowouts that would have occurred under his tenure protects his friend to live with less criticism within that system.. Indiana does things right…Isn’t that what we’ve always heard? Candy stripes getting embarrassed 9 out of the next 10 years against the NBA farm team down in Lexington(Globetrotters vs. College Basketball players still owning a backpack)shows how far “doing things the right way” gets you in the world of today’s college basketball.

    Yeah, we can travel to the Lexington moon once every three decades and pull out a close victory with a savior recruit that actually stays close to home and can make our admissions standards. But the scum of the earth is Jeff Meyer!!! He’s ruining college basketball…Better that he wrecked our program than Calipari wrecking our scoreboard.

  7. And Michigan State will not be the “perfect antidote” once those UK thoroughbreds shake off the off-season cobwebs…They will be scary good. And I don’t see anyone stopping them from claiming another nationaly championship. At minimum, the new poster boy of college basketball will be at the Final Four with his NBA team.

    Hell, even LeBron is a bit rusty during the opening weeks.

    I do respect the truth of your last sentence in terms of fault being distributed equally(though it still doesn’t hint to the motivations of why the rivalry is being avoided). I tend to believe Calipari gets to smell much more the rose(D-Rose pun intended). Indiana should grow a pair and man up to the possibility of being mopped off the floor on some neutral sites. Show the fans of college basketball the realities. Seth Davis doing Valpo at Illinois is laughable. Why waste the time with teams that will never have a chance in the system they’re all too afraid to confront? The game needs a bit of humbling and a bit of truth. Let’s get blown out. Let’s scratch the heads as our young kids get devoured like red meat fed to the wildcats at the zoo.. Candy stripes are tender as marbling…Watch our kids scratch their heads as they walk the next day through campus to their classrooms that actually have professors. Let them look at the stares their fellow students judging them for doing things the right way.

  8. Guess I was wrong… Sometimes not even Jeremy can help himself. As far as the “why wasn’t IU in the Champions Classic?” It had nothing to do with selling seats… C’mon Harvard, that is a made for TV special. Clearly Indiana could have sold the UC out by itself, but that’s a drop in the bucket compared to the hype the match-ups generate and the ad dollars that get sold. They want the match-ups that bring the greatest national appeal outside of the actual school fan bases. They didn’t care Tuesday night about your buddy the MSU fan or Chet’s relatives… They cared about you and Chet! If 5 years from now we sprinkle in a national championship and a couple a Final Fours to our Sweet 16’s then maybe we’ll get the call…. At which point they won’t care about you, me, or Chet, but some random fan in Milwaukee or Denver who is actually attracted to an IU match-up.

    On another note, I’m not convinced that UK will be all that special this year. I think Randle is special. They have more depth than last year, but I also think that the Harrison twins are overrated. I think teams with veteran backcourts will expose them all year, and knock them out in the tourney. I think they are about the 20th best team in the country if you take Julius off the court. He is the only player on the team with the semblance of a post game (and it’s more than a semblance), but I just not that enamored by them.

  9. I think with UK will be how well they can play as a team. These one and done freshman, after the first semester and they stop going to classes, may start believing that every game is a tryout for the NBA. That means a lot of one on one and showboating. That may hurt this team. What made the UK team that won the national title a couple of years ago was that along with great freshman, they had upperclassmen that were able to the game plan together and lead. May not have that with nothing but freshman.

  10. Part I

    The only reason we’re not playing UK is because our coach is afraid of getting mopped off the floor. And what does getting mopped off the floor expose?

    1) It exposes to the nation the joke that is the NCAA and college basketball by highlighting the truth where real reasons the “death” to a rivalry; bringing to the forefront a realization that only best the best blackboard coach(a Brad Stevens, or a Bobby Knight) can begin to counter the huge talent disparities now favoring the NBA farm systems that best lure the one-and-done’s. A disciplined Knight or a savvy Stevens team loses by 15…Crean’s best East Coast recruits against UK loses by 30-40.

    2) It exposes Calipari’s huge advantage when traditional “elite” programs can no longer compete with his stallions that look at his NBA farm as providing the least demands in the classroom for greatest return headlines/limelight and chances to play deep into tournaments.

    3) It exposes Crean for coming up shy in coaching acumen, having nothing special in terms of strategy and in-game countering tactics, to find small odds for upsets on a scoreboard in the unfair system. And it’s not just Crean…Any serviceable, slightly better than average, coach that goes against programs/NBA farms that can get more of the advantages via recruiting in a stacked deck that combines Tradition + Lower academic standards + One-and-Done rule, will have far less success. Those that flourish will be the salesman at Bait & Tackle Shops*(e.g. Calipari) or top coaches at solid schools with basketball tradition that can not only attract the very small percentage of special athletes with classroom as a priority, but coach them beyond their talents… and keep them long enough to develop something resembling a cohesive team.

  11. SUMMARY(Part II):
    By not scheduling UK, nothing is exposed via our Hoosiers getting their ‘Five Banners of Because’ butts shellacked.

    (a)Crean lives in the comforts a nothing special, serviceable, Sweet 16 coach at Ozzie & Harriet University.

    (b)Calipari lives in the comforts a nothing special, coddling salesman of phenoms, while taking full advantage a joke system.

    (c)The NCAA lives in the comforts of nothing special, holding the essence of corporate shallow Establishment pursuits and greed; putting profits ahead of even playing fields and dignity in a hypocritical system allowing the best of both worlds for its selfish existence; an organization that makes example of small-time offenders (Kelvin Sampson) while it maintains its circus shows of talent and TV ratings all within the cloaked deceptions of honorable intent and true academia a value for the concept of student-athlete.

  12. Oh, and the fact that #3 doesn’t make much sense after 12/10/11

    (1 and 2 have nothing to do with IU… And either happen or don’t regardless of an IU/UK series)

  13. Neutral sites expose the truth highlighted in #18/SUMMARY(much like they do in a Syracuse game in the tournament).

    And I believe it was your suggestion that a horrible game from Terrence Jones and some nearly shameful home cookin’ calls had more to do with the huge upset on 12/10/11 in Assembly than coaching or Watford’s shot heard around the world. You really believe better coaching won that game? When UK caught their stride in the tournament, we couldn’t compete against their NBA team on a neutral floor.

    1 & 2 have everything to do with IU. The only chance to remain competitive with relatively strong recruiting classes still very shy of what NBA farm systems/Bait & Tackle schools can offer to phenoms forced to do a year of college(a stacked deck system the NCAA has allowed and created for ratings), is to find a coach that brings the highest level of chalkboard abilities to compliment recruiting student-athletes that will always fall short to the talent at Camp Calipari.

  14. Geoff
    Wednesday, December 14, 2011 – 1:39 PM UTC

    I love being wrong about these things. Hope I’m wrong again. I believed UK would win based on the Jones/Watford matchup… wow, could that have gone more in our favor… It was like he was paid to blow the game… and not only is Jones the absolute dawg of the game, but Watford is the HERO!

    However, I didn’t think that UK was a legit number one, just better than IU

  15. Maybe that’s why we quit the home-&-home series…? Too much coming out of Crean’s check when the game is at Assembly? Probably even bigger bucks to pay off Calipari in order for Randle to throw the game…? Otherwise, it gets very, very ugly. Right?

    There will be no stopping UK this year. Calipari will likely win 6 out of the next 10 championships. He’ll leave UK as one of the greatest NCAA coaches of all-time.

  16. I do like the way Geoff swims around as a fake journalist with his red-highlighted gill markings shining brightly through the shallow waters of a Scoop pond.

  17. Even though Harvard wears “candy stripes”,I knew his “fandom” is phoney.His demonstrated low intelligence and lack of logic in his reasonning when offering his opinions;clearly marks him/her a Kentucky fan!!

  18. It’s pretty clear at this point that I get suckered in by Harvard’s nonsense all the time…

    I’m not saying better coaching by Crean won the game… I’m saying Crean wasn’t exposed, which is your point in #3. They played again at a neutral site in the tourney, and again Crean wasn’t exposed. The final margin ended up misrepresentative of the game. IU played them better than anyone else on their way to the title. It took a couple weak calls against Cody and an amazing FT shooting performance from a notoriously mediocre/bad FT shooting team to win that game.

    All I’m saying is your premise is incorrect based on existing evidence.

    Now, I have very similar feelings about this years UK team… I don’t think they’re a legit #1 (although certainly better than IU). I hope history doesn’t repeat itself.

    I’m not sure that UK would be better than IU next year or the year after. All depends on who stays and who goes… If they lose Randle and PG Harrison and that’s it, then they’ll be very good… If they also lose Pothryess, Cauley-Stein and/or Young and SG Harrison… Well then IU will be superior.

    Here’s what I do know, IU will have a lot of talent in there system for years to come… Some of it every bit as high as what UK will bring. But we’ll have more returnees that are just a notch below and will become good-to-excellent college players… Stronger, and with more experience.

    I think a team of Yogi, Blackmon, Williams, Hollowell, and Vonleh, with a bench of Stan, Luke, Devin, RJ, and Perea can compete with any freshman-heavy class that UK can put out there.

  19. You wouldn’t know logic if it bit you in your Texas saddlebags.

    A phony fan is one that steals the credit for our Hoosier victory with an implication a UK player was paid off to throw a game.

    And there is no “logic” in the two biggest frauds and egotistical charlatans in college basketball ripping a historical rivalry game away from the fans. I never thought I’d see the day that Indiana University fears playing Kentucky on any court.

  20. Crean has yet to demonstrate beating a team on a big stage with “just a notch below” talent.

    And if you remove the two years of having the best center in the country, he gets blown out of gyms wherever he brings equal, or greater-than-equal, talent.

    Within the skewed system pf ratings and greed perpetuated by the NCAA and their validation of the NBA farm systems where academics is a fugitive to the one-and-done, IU will struggle under a coach that will never bring enough chalkboard understanding to get teams to play above their individual talent.

  21. Is it your lack of intelligence that sucks you in…or your lack of emotional maturity?

    What sucks most in is the hatred of a proposition moving in congruence the inevitable truth..Charlatom Valvocrean can recruit…but that’s about it. He is also very skilled at tweeting, chasing Indiana icons and manufactured villains, protecting a friend in Lexington, and screwing the cap on and off a water bottle.

  22. Harvard,

    You are definitely building quite a straw man here. I don’t have much to say about the reasons why the UK – Indiana rivalry game isn’t happening anymore, but what I do know is that it goes way beyond the two coaches involved. Fred Glass and whomever UK’s AD is are responsible for generating revenue and both the respective ADs were in the same opposing camps. There’s more than meets the eye here, but if this is more “evidence” of why you think Crean is terrible, so be it.

    But, the premise that UK is perennially going to dominate all of college basketball by turning UK into a one-and-done factory isn’t supported by the historical evidence. In fact, Coach Cal has routinely underachieved with the talent that he’s worked with even back to his Memphis days. The year that they beat us on their way to the NC in ’12 was the anomaly, not the other way around. That team really was special, as it had a number of young kids that were mentally mature beyond their age combined with natural, raw talent. They played together as a team more so than any other team Coach Cal has ever had.

    There are no trophies for winning recruiting battles and getting headlines for the #1 Class. I feel that a combination of raw talent and senior leadership can overcome a lot of physical ability, especially when it comes to playing in the tournament. I’m NOT saying UK is an easy out, either. However, all this preseason “hype, 40-0, we can’t lose because we’re #1 with McDonalds All Americans with jetpacks in our shoes and fairy dust sprinkled on our jerseys” is in no way advantageous to solid programs like MSU, Arizona or Duke that has a mixture of both. UK is going to get better and so are a lot of other teams. Making predictions is kind of silly. Enjoy the season and the drama that unfolds as people’s expectations get shattered all around them.

  23. I feel that a combination of raw talent and senior leadership can overcome a lot of physical ability

    Agree. And that’s why Cody stuck us in the a$$ by bailing on a rare chance to do something special for his home state and a once “elite” basketball program struggling to find relevance on a national sports stage. When and where does any real talent stay until a senior year?

    Calipari is just getting started. Freshman will always have a slower growth curve at the beginning of the season. But the level of talent Calipari is securing is simply eclipsing everyone else. He may not win it all every season, but they’ll be in the mix and be legitimate contenders with the stacked deck of the one-and-done system at a Bait & Tackle. UK(with a qualifier they remain healthy) will be unstoppable come March. MSU is a very good team with a coach that can maximize his talent. Do you believe Crean could have the same success with Izzo’s roster? …with Beilein’s roster…Calipari’s roster? That’s the logic you need to take to the bank.

  24. At the end of the day, it’s an opinion. Many believe the country is going to hell because of Obamacare and a charlatan president more skilled at selling and speaking than implementing/leading/teaching/compromising. But doesn’t he also work within a very restrictive system that allows egos to get in the way of progress and visions? And doesn’t big business and the privileged classes controlling that wealth have an inordinate amount of power and influence in this country like never before its history? And we’re going to blame 30 years of burying the average American under the shoe of corporate greed on a crappy website design?

    And much like the political landscape in this country, there are no even playing fields in the world of college basketball. It’s all about soundbites and ratings and the shallow pursuits of fast money. The NCAA chasing down Kelvin Sampson is no different than Fox chasing down Obama over a flawed website. Power and dollars are concentrated amongst very few. And that’s the only truth behind any outrage when decades of imbalance is threatened.

    So sue me if I can’t feel all warm and fuzzy over coaches and journalists that refuse to confront and educate the public because it threatens their own pocketbooks.

  25. Well, I’m certainly in no position to field those questions as it is a total non-sequitur. What I do know is that Cody Zeller, or any other kid, with the opportunity to play in the NBA took it. Bill Gates, Jobs and Zuckerberg amongst many of the masses all left their respective colleges to pursue their ultimate dreams. Why do we crap on kids with athletic talent, especially the vast majority who come from extremely poor backgrounds? The reality of the farm team/college system is here. It is purely amoral. I’d love to see Cody or VO, (or even Isaiah Thomas!) stick around 4 years, but I won’t begrudge a player for taking the opportunity to begin his career when he thinks he is good and ready for it.

    Maybe you prefer the “innocent times” past of perceived pureness, when guys like Bobby Knight, Woody Hayes and Adolf Rupp ruled the college landscape. That’s completely fine. There is something nostalgic about it. But those times weren’t that pure either. While money wasn’t as prevalent, rampant racism was. However, that time has passed and times change. You see nothing but greed and selfishness. I see a different world that allows more freedom for people to pursue their careers and their ultimate dreams. That’s such a bummer that you feel that way. For those that know Cody Zeller, your characterization of him seems entirely out of line.

    Cody had his shot at bringing a banner to Bloomington and he and the team whiffed. It happens. But this happens in college basketball. A one loss Kansas team in 1997 team with 4 soon to be NBA players lost to an extremely scrappy, well-led and well coached Arizona team with by Michael Bibby that lost 9 games that season. The went on to send Dean Smith into retirement in the Final Four with his NBA ready squad. Like Crean, Lute Olson also was criticized for whiffing one time too many. It was incredible drama.

    I think Crean still has a lot to prove. Even he would admit it. But I’m just saying I have no idea how things are going to turn out. All I know is that with today’s signing period, I’m excited about Indiana’s potential the next few years. I’ll evaluate as I go, but ultimately the book cannot be written yet. There’s a full season of hoops to speculate on and Crean has to coach these kids, not hypothetically coach the MSU’s team, or Syracuse’s team, or manage UK’s payroll (zing!).

  26. Why does everyone on this site keep spelling Isiah Thomas wrong? One would think anyone proclaiming to be a long time Indiana fan would know the difference.

    “Crean has to coach these kids”…Unfortunately, the absence of such ability likely made it seem more of a lost cause for Cody to take another shot at the banner with even better pieces on a more athletic team. Confidence in the verb “coach,” rather than the noun “coach,” probably played a predominant role in his decision….Something Cody learned to a much greater degree after coming to Indiana.

  27. And I certainly don’t believe they were more innocent times during the Knight era. But, thankfully, even with his kicking, and screaming, and demeaning of national East Coast reporters with his superior basketball intelligence, I don’t believe he was a racist.. And it’s just too damn bad our locker rooms never looked like the modern and more cosmopolitan times of Penn State football or Miami Dolphins.

  28. Time to pull out of another dive into the abyss of the illogical and speculative…Jeremy has already been way too generous in his latitudinal constraints set for the blasphemous Harvard. I am taking advantage and overfishing the pond.

  29. A very minor point but Isaiah Thomas of IU does spell his first name with 2 “a’s” bracketing the second “i”.

  30. Really, Jeremy?….Tsao has taken the visual and the descriptive way beyond anything I just said regarding Penn State football and morality. I won’t bother with cut-and-pasting to drive that truth home…It’s all good. And you’re damn right there’s only one Isiah Thomas that has a banner and a phenomenal NBA career to go along with the one ‘a‘ in his Isiah name.

  31. Jeeze, you’re always set your reaction level at 11. It always has to be just one louder, doesn’t it? 😉

    I spell about as well as a third grader. Without the little red lines, thanks to Chrome, I’d type Isiah Thomas’s name: asdkfhjaksdjhfawiehfu34f adfqwefh. And, for the record, I haven’t proclaimed anything other than my innocence from the one night at the Christmas party. I had too much whiskey.

    And for the other record, I definitely was not calling Knight a racist at all. The man had a lot of personal flaws, but that wasn’t one of them. However, to my comment, you should hear the stories of my black friends and their parents who lived in Southern Indiana in the 50’s, 60’s & 70’s. That is what I was alluding to. There were definitely less than stellar attitudes and behaviors that were way more mainstream than folks would like to admit. I’m just saying that romanticizing one period in contrast to this alleged, dirty, money grubbing generation you can’t stand is probably on shaky ground. There’s a reason for that mural “The History of Indiana” in Woodburn Hall.

    Lastly, I’m not really quite sure how it is that you can understand the motives of all these kids. Did Cody leave, as you said earlier, because he only cares about NBA riches, or is it because he knows Crean can’t coach? If so, how could you possibly know that? Do you know the family? Why would Zeller’s father, who let one of his older kids play for Roy Williams (another guy who had to shake the “he can’t win the big one” label), bless his son going to a university with such a horrible, charlatan coach?

  32. I think the faith connection played a big part.

    And you’re funny as hell. Enjoy your comments.

  33. Double Down – that’s what Harvey does… Makes his opinions into fact and then argues like that’s reality. It doesn’t matter how much overwhelming evidence there is to the contrary. (This is awesome… I’m making my own case as to why I should ignore him… And then I don’t)

    To rebut a couple points tho… Not sure anyone ever said, anywhere, at any time, that Crean is as good a coach as Izzo… Here’s the deal. Izzo already has a good job… He’s not coming to IU… If he would I’d gladly trade, but he’s not… So that point is moot. But yes, I think he could do equally as well as Beilein or Cal… As a matter of fact I think I remember IU beating that UM team the only 2 times they played them last year… And I’m pretty sure Cal didn’t make the tourney even with the #1 recruiting class in the country again.

    “…having the best center in college basketball for the last 2 years…” That isn’t fact… It’s opinion… (Whether I agree with you or not is moot) Cody was very good. However, he wasn’t 1st team all-American either year. His freshman year about 94% of the people outside of Indiana or Kentucky borders would have said Davis was the best center… I seem to remember him winning a few awards and getting drafted #1 overall. Last year Cody was 2nd team center… So much for that argument.

    But my favorite is the “has yet to demonstrate the ability to beat a team with just a notch below talent on the big stage”… Big stage according to who? How many times have they had “notch below talent”? There aren’t many programs that consistently get better talent than IU right now…. Let’s list them:

    UK – Crean is 1-1 with them in games he had any legitimate talent to work with.

    UNC – IU smoked them by like 30 last year

    Duke – no match-ups I’m aware of

    KU – no match-ups I’m aware of

    Zona – no match-ups..

    UCLA – no match-ups…

    UF(?) – no match-ups…

    Memphis(?) – no match-ups…

    Syracuse – hey found one for ya! We lost…

    Who else gets better talent year in and year out? Not MSU (we beat at Breslin last year) or UM (2-0 last year) or OSU (beat em in Cbus last year and at home the year before) or UL (no match-ups)

    So we DO beat teams with top talent and we beat teams with equal talent…

    Big stage? Apparently the only time it’s a big stage is during the NCAA tournament….

    The ACC/B1G Challenge isn’t a big stage? (2-0 vs UNC and NCST the last 2 years)

    Games where traditional blue-blood IU plays a #1 ranked blue-blood team with ESPN Game Day in Bloomington isn’t a BIG stage? (IU beat UK in 2011 and UM in 2013)

    Playing a great team on their home court for your first B1G title in 20 years isn’t a big stage? (Yeah, just prior to Crean chasing demons his team actually won the game)

    Here’s the thing Harvard… To put it bluntly, all your points are worse than weak.

  34. Why not open this can of worms… I’m bored tonight…

    I’m pretty sure that there was nothing that wrong going on in the Dolphins locker room. Martin has essentially admitted it’s all a farce. Incognito has been cleared by all his black teammates as a racist. None of the calls or texts are anything me and my friends (or my friends of friends) haven’t said or written to each other.

    But the real crux is that Offensive Lineman in the NFL is a bad-ass job description. It takes a ridiculous amount of toughness. It’s pretty clear at this point that Martin did not possess the requisite toughness to perform his job. The Dolphins spent a 2nd round pick on him… That’s not cheap, and I’m not talking about money, but about what you waste by not getting the right guy. So it’s the veteran o-linemen’s job to toughen him up and make sure he’s good to stand next to them in the trenches. Apparently incognito was the head cheese… But he was also his ally.

    Hey rookie pay for our Vegas trip (and no you can’t go) – if you are such a mental marshmallow that you can’t refuse that demand then you either need the lesson or don’t deserve your roster spot.

    Various threats and language – it’s words dude. What do you think the D-lineman you’re going up against for 50 snaps a Sunday is going to say to you? Man up you puss!

    Is Incognito an A-Hole? Of course… Roughly 80% of the NFL has a screw loose… It’s a testosterone-driven league… It’s the very definition of macho… How many of these former players that are speaking out against this to the press either have an agenda or are saying the exact opposite behind closed doors.

    Honest to god, this is one of the weakest sports “controversies” of all time.

  35. Because you know so much about this stuff with all your handy stat sites you live on, I’m sure that your omission of rather important facts are not by accident…?

    Wasn’t NC without P.J. Hairston?

    And we already concluded(based on your genius from 2 years ago) that if Terrence Jones simply realizes he’s at a basketball game, we get blown out on our own floor.

    And both games were in Bloomington. And don’t forget what happened to us against Butler’s weakest team in three years on a neutral court.

    Outside of having a a ball dangle on the rim until fatefully finally falling the direction that allowed Tommy to do his postgame villain chasing, our home floor and home cookin’ is your definition of “big stage” victories. It’s rather a pathetic testament a coddled society that measure achievement with lower and lower bars. Crean embodies your weakness in “going home parties” and breaking pinatas for simply getting on a bus to play a game that Valparaiso has shared a same stage.

    Those five banners didn’t come via a “blue ribbons for everyone” Establishment mentality. By your definition, Oladipo playing in DC and having high draft picks is the new standard of excellence at IU.

    Some of us actually believe that there are still young guns with stones that won’t walk away after getting bitch-slapped by a Boeheim team on the only stage the millions are really paying attention.

    Falling back on a Michigan game that we won against a team with a klutz with zero post moves as their man in the middle..? I guess we saw what McGary decided to do with that bitch-slapping. I only wish Hoosiers were coached by a quiet and mature presence that could instill a desire for redemption that counts beyond the speeches and verbal attacks at assistant coaches that comes with his self-anointing blue ribbon ceremonies…Pick yourself off the floor and come back to show Syracuse what “undaunted” used to mean in our now hollow fight song.

  36. That dude on the Patriots sure had more than harsh words that football players say in the heat of battle.

    I’m not sure if there aren’t more nutcases willing to make good on their threats.

    I’ve had my one instance of luck where I escaped death at the hands a violent maniac. I can’t defend a guy making threats to kill someone. Maybe it’s because I’ve been on the other end those types of threats and witnessed a person completely snapping and literally foaming from the mouth. Talk is cheap and think it’s very unfair to paint Martin as a coward.

    I have zero care about the tough culture of the NFL. Here’s my answer to testing your toughness…Put on a uniform to be a soldier to defend this country in bunkers in Afghanistan …then come see me about your cool ‘n’ words, your cage fighting, or your football bravado.

  37. What’s sort of astounding is Mitchigan went through 3 of those teams you listed as “consistently getting better talent than IU” while storming their way to a championship game. Certainly no tournament anomalies or petered out Cinderellas they could breeze through.

    And what’s also sorta weird is all that talent consistency only accounted for one of your listed teams making last season’s Final Four. Sounds like sound coaching, savvy, and stones in the clutch can still make up for talent disparities. Then again, we already knew that when we watched Knight, Smart, Alford & Co. take down a far more talented Syracuse team in our old Hoosier home movies.

  38. ..or a Mike Davis taking down the “consistently talented” #1 Blue Devils on one of the greatest come-from-behind victories in NCAA tournament history.

    ..or Steve Downing putting Indiana on his back to outplay the big redhead getting all the national attention on his “consistently talented” Bruins. Only the most degenerate whistle ever to blown at a Final Four keeping the unheralded Hoosiers out of the championship game.

    Yup, Hoosiers have always been known for breaking the mold of consistency..It’s always been our brains combined with our deep learning and love for the game in this state that separated our players and coaches with more invested in candy stripes than the consistent salivations at the NBA game.


  39. I would just like to step into this conversation once again to say that there was no such thing as a “going home party,” and that your entire use of that term is based on a ScoopTalk title which I spent five seconds coming up with and that Tom Crean could not possibly have had anything less to do with. Stop using that as a point in your lowering expectations argument because it was not in fact a real thing at all.
    Also, by claiming that the Establishment “wants everyone to get a blue ribbon,” you have officially twisted your nonsensical Establishment theory into a pretzel.
    Feel free to continue making the rest of your argument that you’ve made every day since March.

  40. Well, I thought it was goodnigh…


    I don’t blame you for placing the prevalent culture beaten into your head(the countless crucifixions, smirks, villain-chases, Bobby handshakes, and consistent self-anointing blow all have been subjected to for the last six years)and getting carried away into believing getting on a bus for DC with an NBA high draft pick was the new standard of Hoosier excellence.

    It’s o.k. We need to get off the Crean high horse. There’s only one standard of excellence in NCAA basketball. We were constantly reminded that Davis did not possess that excellence and that Knight had lost his mojo the same. Nobody was referring to NBA draft picks or ‘feel good stories’ to compare us to Duke, NC, UK, etc. The only standard they attempted to trivialize our accomplishments a scohool that believes in combining education with athltete was by the mere fact we hadn’t had a “going home” to Bloomington party for a banner since 1987.

    Why in the hell should the measure of our success change now? Because many love our new standard to be content with the silly piousness and our making lofty our mediocrity…or the random witch hunts disrupting our program over nothing from an NCAA wrought in hypocrisy?

    Time for IU to man up and get their butts shellacked on a neutral court. Time to question. Time to quit playing pretend that speeches and crucifixions is what built Assembly Hall.

  41. To those who converse with the Harvard of Hillbillies, simply concede he is all knowing not only in basketball, but in all areas of life, and that he loves to hear himself talk. Your thoughts and opinions aren’t worth a hoot to H of H. since he has an insatiable appetite for always being right. So acknowledge he is “right” and move on. It’s time to hear the thoughts, opinions and facts of others.

  42. Harvard, re: post #44…

    It depends how you frame Incognito’s “threats”… Personally I’m a 100% comfortable believing that he was talking shtuff and not making “threats”…. It’s what guys do these days… Maybe not so much when you grew up, but maybe, I don’t know. What I know is that I have a phone full of texts like that from people who I love to death…

    I offer a bad trade in a fantasy league… You should see the crap my 30-something friends write about me in the email chains.

    I decline to go out on a Friday night because I’m having family time with the wife and kid…. The texts I get from my single friends are hilarious… But I’d never show them to my wife or the general public.

    Ok… And I’m 38 now… These guys are 22, 23, 27… Growing up in a culture of toughness… Growing up in world of entitlement since they were juniors or seniors in HS… Being yelled at by their o-line coach in college and the pros – things I guarantee wouldn’t make for acceptable dinner time conversation…. Having enormous physiques and vast quantities of disposable income, so when they go into the general public they basically do, buy, act, say what they want… Living in the bubble of an NFL locker room, insulated from reality, and probably never had the experience of working a job with an HR Dept…

    Those guys are 10-15 years younger than me… More testosterone… Less maturity in most cases…

    I’m not calling Martin a coward in the general sense… Although I’m not sure he isn’t… It looks like he took a cowards way out of a position he was uncomfortable in and now regrets it greatly… I’m saying he lacks the mental toughness required for his job description.

    In the simplest terms, his job is to protect his QB and RBs from enormous, powerful, angry bad-asses who want to physically and mentally test him 40-60 times in a 3 hour period. He will get hit, tackled, piled on top of, yelled at, sworn at, spit on, given titty-twisters, otherwise pinched, have some dude with a cast on club him, get blindsided a couple times, have his neck jacked backwards after the whistle by a guy who didn’t like the way he undercut his buddy, get poked in the eye….

    Yeah, how many times have any single one of those things happened to any one of us recently? What are the percentages that you will break a bone at work today? Are you risking paralysis every time you punch your time card? How many times next week will the salesman from the competing copier distributor slap you in the face and call your sister a oh as you pass each other in the waiting area. That is Martin’s life… It’s Incognito’s life… It requires a hardening both mentally and physically… Martin apparently couldn’t stand up for himself physically, why should his teammates trust he can stand up for them, and he couldn’t persevere the rigors associated with calcifying his mentality.

    That doesn’t make Martin a bad person in the real world – it sounds like it all didn’t jive with his value system, upbringing, and personality… I’m sure he felt those things slipping away and they were more important than football… If he had just said those things and stepped away, I for one (not that it matters) would have a lot of respect for him… But to throw teammates under the bus – well the situation better be real, and you better be sure you have no regrets… Now to be going back and apologizing to Incognito with private texts about how “everything is so crazy now”…

    There are a couple things I’m certain of:

    1) I would hire Martin over Incognito for a job outside of football
    2) Incognito is an A-hole, but his teammates respect him, which is fine within the bubble of the NFL

    (I’m pretty sure the “I escaped peril from a crazy person once in life”, while personally traumatic for you, has no relevance in this story… But if you want to share more details we can try to make it all fit)

  43. Wish I had the deftness to write post #42. Good job Geoff. Never in my life have I seen a better definition for oxymoron than “NFL Bullying”.

  44. Thanks HC, although I’m actually more proud of post #50…

    Dustin/Jeremy – whoever edited my post and put in “shtuff”… I love it. That’s going to be my new go-to… I just wish I had the ability to italicize on my iPad… (Anyone know how to do that?)

  45. Maybe it is a product of a different time, Geoff.
    And I guess we all bring our different conclusions and perceptions to the table based on how we were raised tied into a plethora of varied life experiences.

    Even within the trash-talking culture amongst friends and teammates, I’m not anywhere close enough to the situation to really know the truth. Sometimes games can spill into the reality of something twisted, sick, and different.

    And I’m not sure where we lost the ability to gain respect through the quiet confidence, subtleties, and nuances. I go back to my father’s way more than my own. It never hurt that he was a man that always appeared much larger than his actual size in terms of his height. He was built wide, large thick shoulders, and he has hands that bear the signs of strength and years of working with them. Huge hands with a gorilla grip and thick fingers..Hands that looked like they could crush granite. My father played football in the trenches. He was All-State and was considered one of the top offensive ends. I wish you could hear him tell his stories. I wish you could see the contrasts of a hard and honest life blended into a man with no fear of death ..He’s imposing and commands respect by way of something true emanating through the tones in a voice and signals that have a quiet and deeper truth of knowing and witnessing harder times with cleaner appreciations for uncomplicated sources in happiness. To know him up close reveals a very gentle man where all the grandkids lineup for his hugs and look at me as if I’m the neighborhood stranger. He carries something inside that I wish I could find. He would never go down the road of all the crap I spew on this blog. You just can’t teach dignity. You either have it, or you don’t. He would never have use for the culture where bravado now resides.

    Unbreakable isn’t found in a text message.

  46. Geoff, It was good and #50 may Pulitzer quality, I don’t know, as I started to read it and saw how long it was and I stopped. That has much to do why I don’t read a higher % of H4H’s posts.

  47. Great post Harv…

    I don’t pretend to know the whole truth either, but I can’t get past 2 questions…

    Why have all of the Dolphins come rushing to Incognito’s defense? If there were an ounce of truth it would have been way easier to keep their mouths shut or do the less controversial thing and back the “victim”.

    Why is Martin sending texts to Incognito at this point basically apologizing and saying the whole thing is messed up? If he’s truly as scarred as the original claim makes him out to be then what the heck… Did he develop Stockholm Syndrome or did this go way further than he ever thought it would and he feels real regret?

    Common sense tells me this is a non-issue, born of a grossly exaggerated claim, made by a socially awkward and immature (albeit intelligent) individual, who didn’t mentally play out the scenario to its natural progression in the media.

  48. I guess the deeper question is why and the hell do any of us really care?

    And maybe there lies the sickness and the perversions a growing blab of self-indulgences in simply wanting to see our own weak verbal eruptions frozen in time on these dumb-a$$ electronic screens we carry around like Linus van Pelt’s blanket.

    Maybe we all search for a love we can’t find in a pair of honest eyes. We text..We blog…We tweet. We search. We sell. We seek. Somebody care about I. Somebody care about me. Somebody care about mine.

  49. Applause, applause. Nice posts fellers. Makes me want to line up and shake hands. Good game, nice game, good game…………………………

  50. Remember all the crap ol’ lazy Christian Watford was dealt on this blog…?

    And to think there’s likely not even a Sweet 16 appearance that anybody could go home to without this amazing play.

    Came back for his senior year when it was probably wiser for him to take his chances at getting drafted after the ‘THE SHOT’ ESPY award and the fresh memory of the way he really shined in the 2010-ll NCAA tournament.

    Thank you, Christian. Your ship has now sailed and I always knew it would sail with Hoosier in your heart.

  51. oops.

    …and the fresh memory of the way he really shined in the [2011-12] NCAA tournament(late minutes of the first half in the VCU game).

  52. Here’s why I care, because these stories contribute to the overboard political correctness and wussiffication of America’s youth. It drives me batshtuff to give credibility to stories that don’t deserve it, but furthers the discussion down a path of wussyness… Or limits the ways we can express ourselves or language we can use… Because someone who we’ll never meet hears about something 3rd party with zero context and make assumptions about what the intent was… Then it just continues to spiral downward.

  53. Then drop it for use of comparison to Double Down’s statement:

    Maybe you prefer the “innocent times” past of perceived pureness, when guys like Bobby Knight, Woody Hayes and Adolf Rupp ruled the college landscape. That’s completely fine. There is something nostalgic about it. But those times weren’t that pure either.

    Just stick with the Penn State’s hiding of the despicable acts they covered up for the last decade…

    Or maybe stories of 14-year-old girls texting each other that they don’t care some girl they bullied on social media killed herself.

    Not attempting to vilify anyone, but let’s quit pretending that we necessarily live in kinder, gentler, times while we vilify Knight-a man that didn’t kick you because of your color, or your faith..or your age..or your sexual orientation..or your IQ..or your handsomeness…or your background. He simply kicked you and verbally abused you for doing things outside the realm of how he wanted you to perform on the basketball court while actually acting as a student in the classroom. Young people are completely guilty of many the traps an older generation falls into with the sensationalizing of current ‘hot’ news stories; they grab onto isolated incidents someone they’ve read about(or seen a few YouTube clips depicting one of their less than admirable moments)to make wide an unfair generalizations a total lifetime while erasing every decent gesture and redeeming qualities the individual had outside those soundbites of history not representative the complete character.

    Don’t hang the vilification label around an older generation’s neck…There’s plenty of villain chasing and unfair painting of youngsters coming from the current population of the day. They do it to each other and they point to history with the same narrow bullets.

  54. And hand assualt weapons to the pilgrims and the Mayflower doesn’t even get halfway across the Atlantic. Native Americans get their hands on a few M16’s and our country looks much different.

    Give an iPhone to Thomas Jefferson and he becomes worse than the air-headed blond tailing your butt in her SUV while texting her personal trainer.

    Technology and the hardware to kill each other is what has changed. No less innocent was the past. But that should not be our crutch to stop us from striving to be better and live with dignity.

    Far too easy today to be trigger happy with the tongue and the gun. We’re all guilty of abusing the technology to hurt people…And if we don’t slow down the conveniences of such addictions to even scores quickly, I do think we’re heading down a far scarier road a day when we’ll have very little conscience, self-control, or memory of an ounce of good in our collective souls.

  55. Geoff, There really isn’t much difference in the way you and I think. Another fine piece in print is #60.

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