Live Chat Transcript

QUESTION: MODERATOR: Good morning, and welcome to today’s IU sports chat. We appreciate you joining us. Busy time with both football and basketball now here. You’ll definitely want to check out tomorrow’s special season preview for IU men’s basketball.

Gentlemen: Talk to us. What’s going on the rest of this week and weekend?

 JEREMY: Well, we do think you’ll rather enjoy the season preview section, in particular Dustin’s in-depth feature on Will Sheehey, who both is and isn’t who you think he is. Other than that, just men’s and women’s basketball openers this weekend with a football game in between. Plus IU women’s soccer still in the Big Ten Tournament and men’s soccer wraps up the regular season at Northwestern. Let’s chat about a few of those things, shall we?

DUSTIN: Oh, still so much. As you said, the IU basketball special section comes out tomorrow. Pretty proud of what we managed to put together for that one. Got a Will Sheehey profile in there that I think might be good, but that I’m also terrified about, so I guess check that one out. And of course, basketball starts Friday, and the football Hoosiers have a game Saturday that they desperately need to win to cling to life. So we’ll have all kinds of coverage there. But anyway, let’s get to it.

ANDY: I can comment on the basketball special section with some objectivity in that I had nothing to do with its creation and I will simply say: “It rocks.” Plenty to chat about, so ready to pound the old keyboard. Thanks for joining us.

QUESTION: IU Soccer Fan

OK for the last time this season I am writing in to thank you for putting up with me. Same problem with MSU as always and it’s a broken record. I am done with this team and will be back next fall for what hopefully is a much better more normal IU Soccer season and hope this one is just a fluke.

IU Soccer Fan, Bloomfield

JEREMY: IU Soccer Fan,

I’ll let you know next fall if you miss anything in the next few weeks with the men’s soccer team. Might be a good time to jump on the women’s bandwagon, as they seem a good candidate to make the NCAAs and possibly host a game.

DUSTIN: I have to say, I haven’t been involved in the soccer discussions because I don’t cover soccer, and I thought the fire Yeagley talk was way over the line, but I really appreciated this entry. It was honest, it was genuine, it was reasonable, it was a fan stepping back from the insanity. I found this refreshing. Anyway, moving on.

ANDY: Thanks, IU Soccer fan. It’s been a rough ride for all concerned. Your sentiments are certainly understandable and doubtless shared by a lot of folks. Would have to think this season was an anomaly, but we’ll see. At the very least, it should serve to motivate everybody in the program to work especially hard during the off-season, including the spring exhibition season. And I know the players and coaches haven’t totally thrown in the towel on this fall as yet. They’re pointing toward that Big Ten tournament to see what they can get done. And, as strange as this season has already been, it wouldn’t seem all that weird to see them win it. Let’s face it, it isn’t like there is any Big Ten team they can’t beat. But regardless, it’s been an unbelievably and almost perversely difficult season to-date.

QUESTION: Is there a mental state to all of these unexplainable losses for IU? Is there a voice in your head thinking something is going to go wrong? I mean look at the Colts make comeback after comeback and pull it off and yet IU finds ways to lose. Does past history and confidence not have to do with the difference between pulling off close games in the clutch versus giving them away?

Mike, Seymour

JEREMY: Mike,

Maybe that mental state is a factor for teams that find ways to lose multiple times in a season, but for this team, what’s happened in the past is irrelevant. However, you do rightly point out the importance of having a culture of winning, which obviously hasn’t developed yet at Indiana, and is a much bigger factor than history. I’ll leave the rest of the psychoanalysis to the football dudes, who see the team regularly.

DUSTIN: Mike,

There is, and I don’t think it’s so much the presence of negative thought as the lack of positive thought. In other words, it’s not that they think something will go wrong, it’s that they don’t KNOW something will go right. Hopefully that makes sense. There are some teams that have had enough go wrong that the always think the rug is going to be swept out from under them at the end. I don’t think Indiana had that feeling, at least not until Saturday anyway. They might now. Obviously, they’d lost a tough one to Michigan, but they hadn’t been THIS close before. They hadn’t been on the doorstep at game’s end, so they didn’t really have previous experience, positive or negative really, to bank on. The Colts, for instance, have won enough of those games that they believed they were going to win. I’d venture to say that Indiana thought it was going to win that game but didn’t really know what was going to happen. And I think there’s an element of that in the final play. There was just the slightest bit of panic in Sudfeld there. He thought he had to execute the play even though Minnesota had jumped it and it was riskier to even try the pass than to just tuck the ball and take a sack or throw it away. If he’d been through enough scenarios like that he might have thought otherwise.

Would like to go back and explain why I don’t think there’s the presence of negative thought. Indiana fans, obviously, have seen enough games go wrong that they do get it in their heads that something is going to go wrong. But it’s not like the players have been there for all of this. Again, I don’t think they always think things are going to wrong so much as they don’t know they’re going to go right. Hopefully all of that rambling made some level of sense.

ANDY: Mike:

I don’t know that the losses are all that unexplainable, given IU’s difficulties with defense, but I get what you’re saying and was thinking somewhat along the same lines earlier this week.

Is Penn State a better team than Indiana? Don’t think so. Wasn’t when the teams met head-to-head. But PSU could well finish with a better record after garnering two overtime wins at home, against Michigan and Illinois. The Nittany Lions could have lost both of those, and really should have lost the Michigan game, but found a way to prevail. And I do think the history of that program and IU’s might have some residue in that regard.

Winning is habitual for Penn State football. Its guys not only hope to win, they expect to win, indeed know they’re going to win. Subconsciously that belief is there. It probably isn’t there for IU’s guys, who have known a lot of tough luck during their college days in a program that historically hasn’t won much. Might that make a difference at crunch time? It might.

And here’s another thing that almost certainly makes a difference: When Penn State is rallying and fighting to win a close game at home, it has upwards of 100,000 people in the stands fervently rooting the home team on. Contrast that to IU. Half the crowd was gone by halftime last Saturday at the Minnesota game, the homecoming game. Admittedly, it looked like the Hoosiers were laying another egg during a disastrous second quarter, but that was still giving up pretty early on a team with an offense like IU has.

There is something to that cliched phrase “learning how to win.”

QUESTION: OSD is in the house. Got to give a shout out to my grand nephew Evan. He has yet to play his first game as Lewis Cass King but recently got his 1st recruiting letter. Way to go Evan. Andy my cubs finally got a manager. Now your Cards are in for a fight. Now onto the questions.

First we got JB JR despite OSD thinking all was lost after the decomitt in August. So any other surprises in store from CTC?

Trey Lyles commits to UK. Like none one saw that coming. How does CTc stay friends with Coach Cal when it was obvious (Dustin don’t deny it) that some thing funny was going on last summer to get Lyles to decommit?

Okay let’s start the speculation early, who leaves at IU since we are over signed by one already? I say Jurkin or AE. What say you?

I only saw 1/2 of the second half against Hillsdale (on replay Tuesday night). I thought Noah and Troy looked like beasts. How did you think they looked?

Is Chicago state on normal TV or pay again? I saw UM was on BTN free the other night for their exhibition game. Why is this? Is it they think IU fans will pay for it (no innuendo) and UM won’t? It is very irritating as the Dude pays lots per year for all the sports channels including BTN and then they want more money. Can you guys talk to Delaney for me?

Wel it is about to get started. You boys give us another fine year reporting. It might be more interesting this year than last with the uncertainty.

The OSD has left the chat in a cloud of dust……………

Old Sports Dude , Crown Point

JEREMY: OSD,

Congrats to the grand nephew, hopefully the first of many. As for the Cubs and Cards, meh.

You weren’t the only one surprised with how things turned out after August with Blackmon, not because there was any doubt that IU wanted him, but rarely do decommits revert to their original pledge. Having both he and Robert Johnson to add to the backcourt mix is really going to amp up the firepower for the Hoosiers next year. Add in Hoetzel and suddenly the outside shooting isn’t such a question mark.

I think there were things going on with Trey Lyles, but I don’t know if any of them were funny. In the end, if he got what he was looking for and eventually gets what he’s looking for (one and done to the pros), then I guess that’s all that matters.

OK, I’m officially not playing the speculation game just yet. Let’s see who looks like they could leave early for the NBA, who’s not getting playing time and all that before we start all that.

Noah and Troy can certainly look like beasts in short bursts, then they turn into freshmen again, which will be an ongoing saga. The thing with Noah is that IU has to learn how to use him, particularly in the low post. In the preseason, it seemed like they would go inside to him for a couple possessions early in each half, then forget about it. And Vonleh has to have a presence that says he wants the ball … feed the beast. Troy is almost certainly going to be mercurial, but he can make the kind of plays on defense and on the backboards that can turn games, real momentum shifters. Overall, figuring out lineups and playing time, what is and isn’t effective is going to take some time and trying to extrapolate too much from these first few games is a mistake.

Not sure about the Michigan game, thought that was a replay like the Indiana and Michigan State games were. Anyway, Chicago State is still on the pay per view, but the replay will run Sunday night at 10:30 on BTN.

DUSTIN: Shout out to OSD’s grand nephew. Good luck with all that Rich Renteria, and don’t forget who else is in the NL Central.

Yeah, you were hating on Blackmon pretty hard for a while there. Might want to tone it down on that for future reference. More surprises? Maybe. As we’ve seen, Crean is at least in on Lyle again. I’d written that one off long before Lyle committed to Louisville, and frankly I wasn’t even certain whether or not he wanted Lyle. Apparently, he still does. That seems to be the one that’s still on the table. I do think four is the ceiling for this class, though. After that, you might have to run some guys you don’t want to run.

Hmm… how to explain Crean’s relationship with Calipari? I’d say this, there are more than a few lines and concepts from The Godfather that apply, but one of them is the idea that there’s a difference between personal and business. Whatever happens in recruiting is business. It’s not personal. And they seem to have that understanding. Crean knows full well he can’t trust Calipari in any business sense, but they have a friendship that exists on a different plane. And they can separate that. I understand that. I have friends I love dearly who I don’t trust at all when it comes to anything that might consider business. Some might say that’s not a real friendship, but I would disagree. Crean has his reasons for being friends with Calipari, and those are sincere, but he knows Calipari is cutthroat in recruiting to be kind about it and I think he goes into those battles knowing that Calipari isn’t going to abandon his tactics just because they’re friends. If you think about it that way, at least Crean is never really surprised when those things happen. He can see it coming. But I think you have to give Calipari credit for what he told Blackmon. When he picked Indiana, Calipari told him he made a good call. There’s respect there even if there isn’t mutual trust.

On the oversign, I say Noah Vonleh goes one-and-done. Obviously, I’ve been all over Crean as much as anybody on the oversigning, especially in the last class. But I think it’s pretty obvious now that he knew Zeller and Oladipo were going to be ready to go pro even more than they did. And I think when he oversigns, it’s more because he thinks guys are ready to go and he needs to be prepared. Now, he might also add a fourth guy on the possibility they lose a transfer. But my guess is his calculation on this one is that he loses Noah.

Yeah, Delaney doesn’t take my calls. Unless they’re about baseball, actually. But yeah, Chicago State is the online deal again.

But yeah, Vonleh and Williams did look like beasts. Really impressive amount of athleticism out there. It’s going to take them a while to find a flow, but there’s definitely a lot of raw talent. They only kind of know what they’re doing on defense and they don’t have a lot of great shooting on the offensive end, but they still have a chance to be a really good team.

ANDY: Dude:

Lewis Cass. Ted Kitchel’s alma mater.

Blackmon committing, I will reiterate, wasn’t that much of a surprise. CTC kept recruiting him, seriously and continually, even after the decommitment. That should have been a pretty clear signal. He clearly wouldn’t have done that if he thought it was a waste of time, no matter what people outside the process might have thought. We said all along it was totally different than the Trey Lyles situation, and it proved to be so. If Blackmon hadn’t recommitted, a lot of people would have said, “IU never stood a chance after he decommitted.” And they’d have been wrong.

Don’t know that Cal was catalytic to Trey Lyles decommitting. Tom Lyles certainly was, though.

Why bother to speculate who might leave? CTC has already shown he is two or three steps ahead of everybody else in that regard. The numbers will work out. They always seem to.

Noah and Troy have some pretty serious upside, let’s put it that way. Stan and Devin do, too. And once Luke Fischer gets settled in, he’ll be a rock.

Think Chicago State is another BTN.com streaming game.

It was my understanding that all Big Ten teams, Michigan included, will have a set number of computer-only games. Dustin might know more about this, but I think the schools have some say as to which ones are computer-only. And I think the Hoosiers might have done all of theirs after Friday’s game, but I’m not sure. And of course the Big Ten wants your money. No shock there. Don’t think Delany will be overly sympathetic. Bear in mind, unlike IU’s, most Big Ten basketball fan bases weren’t used to having absolutely every one of their games televised over the years.

How did it get so dusty in here?

QUESTION: “IU football…finding new ways to make me angry since 1987!” I don’t think Fred Glass will be adopting my slogan for IU football but I figured I would throw it out there. I’m not going to call for Kevin Wilson to be fired (when you consider the progress and the recruiting momentum, that’s ridiculous) because it won’t happen this offseason but I think something needs to be done about the defense, it’s just not good enough. Still, the schedule doesn’t look too bad for next season, most everyone is coming back and a bowl game is happening next year (I’ll pass the Kool-Aid if you want any!)…at least it better.

1. I watched both exhibition games on tape delay after listening Fisch on game night. I’ve been pleasantly surprised by a few things but the biggest one to me was the play of Yogi Ferrell. He looks immensely improved in nearly all areas and appears much more confident. Where would you rank Yogi Ferrell on a list of Big Ten PG’s?

2. I have also been pretty impressed by most of the freshmen. Troy Williams clearly has a ton of athleticism and plays with reckless abandon. Stanford Robinson looks to be ready for a big role at shooting guard. I enjoy watching Luke Fischer and he looks like he knows what he is doing on the floor. Noah Vonleh is already an elite rebounder and has solid post moves. Devin Davis looks like a versatile piece and Collin Hartman hasn’t played much so, no opinion I suppose. Do you think Stanford Robinson will see more minutes than anyone else at the shooting guard spot?

3. I think this year’s team will be well behind last season’s team on the offensive end (although they might be a bit better offensively than I had anticipated). However, I think they can be even better than last year’s squad on defense. Do you think that is realistic?

Thanks as always for the chat and for your excellent coverage elsewhere. I appreciate it! Enjoy the opening night of IU basketball and what should be a nice fall Saturday home game against Illinois. Go Hoosier and God bless!

TJ, Noblesville

JEREMY: TJ,

Mmmm, Kool-Aid.

1. Yogi has definitely showed significant improvement to this point. If there’s a concern, it’s that his assists are down, but that’s to be expected just because of the new lineup around him and a little more dependence on him to provide scoring punch (not to be confused with Kool-Aid). You have to say Ohio State’s Aaron Craft is the defacto leader at PG in the Big Ten. I think you could make a case for Yogi and Michigan State’s Keith Appling as neck and neck for No. 2 (frankly, I don’t much trust Appling to be consistent, but Yogi has to prove himself in that way, too). Guess maybe that depends somewhat on whether you consider Penn State’s Tim Frazier a point guard or not and how he looks coming back this year.

2. Stan Robinson is the only true shooting guard on the roster, but whether he sees the most minutes on the team there depend largely on how the Jeremy Hollowell experiment plays out. Aside from that, Evan Gordon is still going to get some time, largely just as a steadying presence and second ball handler. But Stan is the most natural fit, if he can show a good grasp of the offense and defense. No question he’s a talented a defender, but has to learn to communicate defensively, not just be good on the ball.

3. Absolutely realistic. As a matter of fact, this team has to build its base on defense, as I think they learned first hand from that Hillsdale game the other night. Good defense covers a multitude of offensive sins, as long as you’re not committing turnovers that give the other team layups.

DUSTIN: TJ,

I feel you there. Obviously, I have no emotional connection to this team and I certainly didn’t grow up watching IU. But I don’t know that there’s been a time that I’ve been following a team that I felt more sympathy for a fan base than after that one Saturday. Rough.

1. I’d say third or fourth. Much as you might hate to say it, Aaron Craft has to take the No. 1 spot just because of how good he is as a defender. I know no one wants to hear that, but he’s earned it. He’s incredibly unnerving on the ball, he runs the offense well, and as hideous as his form is, he’s hit some huge shots. He’s got a chance to be an All-American this year. After that, Penn State’s Tim Frazier is still a little more proven, though part of that is just because when last we saw him, he pretty much had to carry the Nittany Lions entirely. I’d say it’s between Ferrell and Michigan State’s Keith Appling for the third spot. I could go either way there. I think you’ll see Ferrell score on Appling’s level this year just because he seems to have the jump shot down. When the shot clock runs down, you’ll see the ball get to Ferrell’s hands, and that wasn’t necessarily the case last year. Appling has had that happen in at least some cases in the past. I think that one’s a pretty even matchup. After that, there’s a significant dropoff at that position in the league.

2. Andy and I were just talking about this in the office yesterday. We’re both really, really impressed with what we’ve seen from Robinson so far and I thought the offense looked its best the other night when he and Ferrell were on the floor together. Crean has been really big on this “positions don’t matter, get your best players out there” kick this preseason and that’s all well and good and true, but he seems to be using that as reason to play as many small forwards at the same time as humanly possible. To me, Crean’s offense has worked at it’s best when it had two ball-handlers on the floor at the same time. Two guys who could really change direction with the dribble and take the ball to the rim off of ball screens and I think Ferrell and Robinson are the two best guys at that right now. So I’m really impressed by Robinson at the 2. i do think there’s a possibility, though, that you’ll see a lot of lineups with Sheehey, Williams, Hollowell and Vonleh all out there and either Ferrell or Robinson or Gordon running the point, or even Hollowell running the point and someone like Fischer out there and I think Crean might go out of his way to be unconventional so that might change the calculation, but I think Robinson is the guy who fits the spot best right now. And I think he can actually put Ferrell in position to play off the ball, because all of the sudden, he looks like the team’s best shooter.

3. This team has more raw material on defense. That I think is clear. But I think it’s easier to forget how good IU was on the defensive end last year. They were fourth in the Big Ten in scoring defense despite playing at a higher pace than most. They were just about in a tie for first with Michigan State in field goal percentage defense and they were 28th in the nation in defensive efficiency, which isn’t half bad. Oladipo was the best defender in the conference and Zeller deserved to be on the All-Big Ten defensive team. It took them a bit to convert their talent and ability to results, especially Oladipo because he gambled way too much as a freshman, but he learned how to truly lock up the other team’s best perimeter offensive player by the time he was done. The one thing that last year’s team had on a negative side that this team doesn’t have is someone they had to sort of hide. There were ball-handlers Jordan Hulls simply could not be expected to guard last year simply because he didn’t have the lateral quickness to keep them in front of him. There doesn’t seem to be anyone on this team who has that problem. That being said, Hulls was also really good at directing traffic on defense and an outstanding off-ball defender who could create turnovers by reading passing lanes and taking the ball out of the post with sneaky double-teams. So he’s a loss in that regard.

At the moment, this team still has communication issues on defense, which is to be expected at this point. Most of Hillsdale’s early 3’s came because switches weren’t communicated. That will come. And guys like Troy Williams who are thinking about defense mostly in terms of creating steals and turnovers and fast break dunks will learn like Oladipo did how to really be stern and lock someone up. I don’t know if you’ll see all of that come together this year, but length and athleticism will also make up for a lot of mistakes.

ANDY: TJ:

Agree, as usual, with your opening monologue. And really, as much as all of us righteously bash the defense, the broader truth is that the Hoosiers just aren’t quite good enough yet as a total team. But as you say, defense is the primary fix that needs to happen, and there are so many returnees overall for next season or two that IU should be able to get good enough as a total team sometime pretty soon. CKW will get a minimum of five years, probably more, and I think that is justified given the magnitude of the rebuilding assignment here. The product on the field is pretty clearly better, if still not good enough. But the culture of the program behind the scenes is healthy. If the team goes into a real tailspin and loses both its remaining home games, that could change, but I don’t expect it to. I’m sure it was a pretty rough week this week, though, for all concerned. That was an especially tough one last Saturday.

1. Agree. Yogi’s development was obviously a key to this season’s team and early returns are encouraging. I’d rank him second only to Craft.

2. Already turning into a big Stan fan. Don’t know if he’s much of a perimeter shooter, but I like everything else about his offensive game so far, and he will D you up.

3. Yes, I think that is realistic, and its defense should help lead to some offense. I do think outside shooting is a potential issue all season, but fastbreak layups aren’t all that hard to make.

The weather will be nice for this time of year, but IU will be lucky to get 25,000 people in the stands against Illinois. That’s just the way it’s going to be right now. The Bucket game will draw more, just because it’s the Bucket game, but that crowd probably won’t be all that robust either, unless, well, the Hoosiers pull off a stunner on the road.

Thanks, TJ, as always.

QUESTION: Today is my son’s 3rd birthday so party is scheduled later today! Anyway, saw both preseason games. What I liked: Yogi’s shooting improvement, the team at times played amazing defense, and the team started to form an identity during the game against Hillsdale. What I didn’t like: way too may young mistakes, which I expected. Bottom line: this team will struggle against Big Ten competition early but if Crean can develop this team as we all know him to be capable of doing, this is a dangerous team come March. My question is what were your takeaways from the exhibition games.

JQ, Muncie, IN

JEREMY: JQ,

Put your party hat on and have a good time.

I don’t disagree with anything you said, and my main takeaway is that this is team very much a work in progress. We saw glimpses of what the Hoosiers were capable of in the exhibitions, but consistency is a mere pipe dream at the moment.

One of the things I’m trying to see is how Will Sheehey finds his niche on this squad. First of all, that assumes he’s healthy after the calf injury the other night. But he’s so good as a cutter off the ball, yet he doesn’t have three or four guys to play off in the same way that he did last year, and defenses are going to be much more tuned in to defending him. So where are the openings for Will, how much does he hunt his shot, how much does he hang back and let others get going?

That’s just the start of so many questions yet to be answered. I imagine we’ll see something different almost every game.

DUSTIN: Happy birthday Son Of JQ!

Those are pretty much my macro-assessments, and they are what I thought they would be. They have a lot of athleticism and raw material, which can make them a terror on defense even if they don’t always know what they’re doing. The outside shooting isn’t great as I expected, but they can absolutely do a lot at the rim and they’ll be able to score on the dribble drive. As much as I heard about how good of an athlete Troy Williams was, I think he’s surpassed my expectations. Stanford Robinson is even better than I thought. Yogi Ferrell is coming along faster as a shooter than I expected. Noah Vonleh better get the free throw thing taken care of, because otherwise it’s going to cost him at least three or four points per game off his average. It’s going to be fascinating to watch just because there isn’t much you can pencil in. I think they’ll lose at least one game this year that blows everyone’s mind, and they’ll also win one they aren’t supposed to win.

ANDY: JQ:

My takeaways are pretty similar to yours. The team defense has a way to go, obviously. Helpside and post defense is still erratic at best. Which is only to be expected with this young a team and this many new faces on the floor. But as you say, there is defensive potential, and just overall potential. I think it’s going to be an entertaining, sometimes maddening, team for IU fans to watch. Any team this young is going to be up and down, with some real waxing and waning of performance levels. That’s just inevitable. But as you say, by March, this could be a doggone dangerous team. The talent level is considerable. One of CTC’s biggest challenges, actually, will be managing a larger rotation so that guys still get comfortable in roles and the chemistry remains good. Because a lot of guys on this team can make a case to play. It won’t be just a seven- or eight-man rotation.

QUESTION: Congrats to Kevin Wilson on a probable call (not to mention going for 2 and sticking with Roberson to long) that cost IU a bowl game this year. We debated whether hiring a coach with head coaching experience at a mac level is better than an elite offensive coordinator and it would appear it absolutely is. I know Jerry Kill has had health problems but has taken a Minnesota team in a similar situation to bowl games last year and this year as well and has turn the team around far faster. I was ABSOLUTELY right in saying you hire a lower level coach who has experience. The MAC is where you learn not to make those play calls and game management decisions.

I am glad unlike Lynch (failed coaches are stubborn and don�t admit mistakes hence they NEVER succeed) he at least takes responsibility for the play call. Someone coaching at a lower level already, doesn�t make these mistakes because they have already seen what that or a similar experience can produce. I am sure Wilson won�t do these things again but decisions like this are EXACTLY why you don�t have your first coaching job in the Big Ten. A coach like Jerry Kill has called this or similar plays in the MAC, realized they don�t work and ultimately don�t do them at a high level. Wilson will eventually stop making these mistakes but it takes longer to turn it around because he has to learn lessons like this on the job at IU, instead of at a MAC level program. THERE are going to be OTHER times where he makes this kind of mistake and has to learn again on the job. Ultimately I think he is a bright guy and in a few years he will learn exactly how to be a game manager!

. It shows though why a first time head coach takes a few extra years to get a program turned around and can be much more painful to watch in the process.

Also I wrote in last week saying how Dunbar and other Olympic coaches are probably failing due to not getting enough resources. Well it�s hard when you have a half full stadium for football because you keep hiring either coaches with no college or head coaching experience (Wilson, Cameron) or were not successful at last job (Lynch, Dinardo). As Terry Hoeppner, Jerry Kill and Brady Hoke have shown it will go MUCH better, much faster if you take on a coach who did REALLY well at a lower level than taking on a coach with no experience or previous failure.

Darren, Martinsville

JEREMY: Darren,

Real briefly, too much has been made of the going for two thing. I’m big on not going for two, and I was OK with the decision both times. If IU had just kicked after the go-ahead touchdown, then Minnesota would have gone for two on its touchdown, so we can play the what if game all day long, as far as that’s concerned.

And Jerry Kill didn’t exactly show a brilliant mind in his own right with that fake punt that failed. He just got away with it.

I’ll let the football dudes handle the remainder of your dissertation.

DUSTIN: Darren,

Whoah, lot of all caps words and exclamation points in this one. Also, I don’t see a question.

Obviously, there’s some argument there. In a lot of cases, successful MAC head coaches have been able to make easier transitions at the Big Ten level, but it hasn’t always worked. Tim Beckman was successful at Toledo. How’s that working out for Illinois? I know, isolated, but there have been success stories on both sides here. There are counters to Kill, and Brady Hoke is successful at Michigan in large part because it’s Michigan. Bill O’Brien was never a head coach before he took over at Penn State, and he’s kept those guys from falling apart. I don’t know that the data is such that you can say definitively that one’s a better option. And if you run that data, let me know because that’s more effective than putting the word ABSOLUTELY in caps.

Should be pointed out as well, it’s not like you can just go to a well and find a successful MAC coach. At the time the Hoosiers were looking for one, there were basically three coaches that you could say were ready for a move up from the MAC. Kill, Michael Haywood of Miami (Ohio) and Beckman. Beckman’s already in shaky shape at Illinois, Haywood was hired at Pitt and fired before he coached a game because of domestic battery charges that were eventually dropped. (And let’s not speculate on what actually happened there because that story seems crazy). And then there was Kill. I really think if not for the health issues, Indiana would have gone all out for him, because he’d had so much proven success at Northern Illinois and Southern Illinois at the I-AA level before that. But I don’t think Indiana was ready to roll the dice on someone with those kind of health problems just a few years after they’d had a coach die in office, and I’m not sure how the administration would handle having a coach having five game-day seizures. Maybe it was the wrong call. Maybe Minnesota is where it is because it was willing to take a chance. But I just don’t know if Indiana, not only as an administration but as a fan base, had the stomach for that still so soon after losing Hoeppner.

Would say this, though. If the Wilson experiment fails and Pete Lembo is still at Ball State when it does, that’s the guy they should go get. Really impressed by that guy.

ANDY: Darren:

Don’t necessarily disagree at all but don’t know you were ABSOLUTELY right. There was admittedly a learning curve for Wilson, in terms of being a head coach, and it always helps if, as in Kill’s situation, one can bring in an entire staff intact. But let me ask this. Is Minnesota a better team than Indiana? I don’t really think so, records notwithstanding. It sure had a lot easier non-conference schedule, though. Minnesota has scheduled smarter for building a program. It had four absolutely automatic Ws to start this fall, with which it built momentum and confidence. I think that has a lot to do with it, actually, in terms of where the teams currently sit. And let me further ask this: If Indiana gets it into the end zone to win at the end, don’t you think Minnesota fans would be asking Kill about that fake-punt call.

There is much to what you say. But as you note, Wilson is smart. And he’s learning. And I tend to think his potential upside might be better than Kill’s, over time.

QUESTION: Late question. If Mallory is let go by season end, do you believe we should rid of the Co-Defensive Coordinator? What’s the difference really in just a Defensive Coordinator, compared to a CO-Defensive Coordinator? Just splitting the responsibility? I think it would be wise to just have one man for the job. Accountability could truly be judged. Inge over the defense perhaps?

Ben, Dothan, AL

JEREMY: Ben,

For the right price, I would be willing to accept defensive coordinator responsibilities. Just sayin’.

DUSTIN: Hey Ben,

Not all co-coordinator situations are created equal. The dynamics are different in every case, and a lot of times, the purpose of naming co-coordinators is not for the purpose of actual coaching structure, but in order to give another coach a title and in order to further stratify the payment situation. You can pay a guy a lot more if you call him a co-coordinator than if he’s just an assistant and it looks a lot better on his resume when he goes to get his next job and as a head coach, you do want your guys to move up in the world and you want them all to get a shot at being head coaches. Bill Lynch talked about Brian George and Joe Palcic as though they were equals, but George was really the man in charge there. Kevin Wilson has been much more transparent. The impression I have is that Mallory has always been the guy in charge of the defense. He’s the guy in the press box, he’s making the calls on defense. Inge is on the field and Mike Ekeler was too. They both have/had input, and really all of the defensive assistants have input, but when it comes to calling plays, it’s Mallory’s deal and at the end of the day, he’s much more accountable for this than Inge. If IU does move on from Mallory (and I’m not convinced they will) I don’t think Inge gets promoted. I think they try to go as big as they can (which is only so big) on a new hire. Inge might maintain his title, but I don’t think he gets promoted and I don’t think it’s a true co-situation with whoever comes in. But again, I’m not convinced that move is going to be made and it certainly won’t happen before the season ends.

ANDY: Ben:

It’s interesting to speculate as to how coaching responsibilities are precisely delegated, though we’re not privy to all of that.

Here’s one way of looking at it. Fabris is technically responsible for the defensive front, by job description, but is he solely responsible who starts or plays the most snaps up front? He might have the strongest voice in those decisions, and they might defer to him, but my supposition is that it is a collective judgment. The coaches all sit in the same room and talk about this stuff. The coaches all have input on that, right up to Wilson, who doubtless has veto power. I think Wilson lets his assistants coach and tries not to get in their way, but I think it’s always a collective process.

And that’s why, if some changes in coach-management are indeed deemed necessary by Wilson after the season, it might not be the changes some on the outside might expect. And that’s why I’m not too hung up on the “co-coordinator” versus single-coordinator question.

QUESTION: MODERATOR: That’s all the time we have for today’s chat. Thanks for joining us and be sure to follow the guys on The Hoosier Scoop app and blog this weekend.

Guys: What else should we know before saying goodbye?

JEREMY: Live chats for basketball and football, blog updates galore and more tweets than you can shake a stick. Join us somewhere, somehow this weekend, won’t you? And don’t forget the IU basketball preview section coming Friday.

DUSTIN: Again, stick with us this weekend. Massive basketball tab comes out tomorrow, season basketball opener tomorrow night, football on Saturday and we’ll have all kinds of coverage leading up and going through both. And also, go get that Hoosier Scoop app. I know, I know, shameless company schilling, but it’s actually really cool. Outstanding work by the tech dudes on that one. Anyway, stick with us, and thanks as always.

ANDY: Boys’ basketball practice for Indiana high schools starts Monday, and Hoosier fans now have renewed reason to check out Marion’s Giants at some point. There are a lot of potential IU recruits playing in the state, with the freshman and sophomore classes looking pretty strong at this point. Thanks to all, as always, who chatted or check in.

 

65 comments

  1. Interesting article by Mark Titus at Grantland…

    http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/9938701/the-big-ten-won-championship-2000-elite-conference

    Also, his comments about Crean are very interesting. Gives Crean the Coach on the Hot Seat award and has comments like this:

    “Crean becoming a national punch line among college basketball fans should tell you something. That Crean was not with Zeller and Victor Oladipo on draft night should tell you something. And Tom Izzo being the only guy in college basketball who seems to have good things to say about Crean should tell you something.”

  2. Titus has some things right in that article and also some things wrong. But he’s a conclusion in search of evidence. Overall, I find Titus to be a bit of a solopsist. It is funny that he’s all over Crean (who I don’t find to be a great game manager, but not as bad as Titus says), but has nary a bad thing to say about his Alma Mater’s head coach, Thad Matta. Matta makes Crean look like Irwin Rommel.

    I’m very, very disappointed about last year. Very. There is no excuse for it. However, things happen in the tourney. The beauty of college hoops is that if you have one bad game, you’re done. Indiana overachieved the previous year.

    Lute Olson had quite a few slips on the tourney in his career, but he managed to hang a banner, narrowly lose to Duke in a poorly officiated final (shocker), and a couple other Final Four’s at Arizona.

    He makes no mention of the development of Oladipo nor the fact that he was working with a starting shooting guard who couldn’t defend a toddler. He’s done a lot right at Indiana, but still has a lot to prove. Hot seat? Only a solopsist from Ohio State could claim that at this point.

  3. Crean is a Hoosier lifer sentence. Sweet 16’s are the new measure of excellence at IU. Don’t mess with holy water after the crucifixion of Kelvin.

    People really need to stop pissin’ on Jordy Hulls. Crean couldn’t coach against a ‘toddler.’ And the way he chased Jeff Meyer around Ann Arbor, you’d think ‘Pamper Tantrum’ was his middle name.

    There’s no ‘hot seat’ for Crean. He is the gift from Marquette that will always keep giving.

  4. In regards to Titus, my retort would be if it was so easy to get a Zeller to IU then why didn’t the others attend? He clearly doesn’t know what he’s talking about and is just another snarky guy with a computer. Just because it’s on the internet doesn’t mean it’s worth reading.

  5. ^^^….said the kettle black

    Austin Etherington pushed and pushed and pushed…and out came a “Movement” plus the long Zeller. The big ‘get’ is off to float around in the uninspiring toilet of prima donnas in the NBA. For Indiana? Now it’s the constipation witnessed in our offense against Syracuse that was always Crean’s business we shall stay.

    All Crean had to do to get Zeller was sing him the “Because” song….Unfortunately, it wasn’t because of Tom or because he would stay until he would do everything possible to break the 27 year banner drought for the candy stripes..It was “because” he wanted to do right by Austin and his AAU friends. Unlike a coach that doesn’t honor eligibility a kid that played his guts out for IU, honor means something to Indiana kids.

  6. Seriously Aruss? That article made me laugh out loud approximately 12 times. The Aaron Craft – Office Space analogy.. Priceless. A couple of the Will Sheehey lines… Classics. And a few other more crass statements.

    My favorite line… “but given Robinson’s inconsistency last season and that the McGary hype is based on four games in which he made zero post moves(3), Michigan fans shouldn’t expect much more than a third-place finish in the Big Ten and a Sweet Sixteen exit.”

    He actually cited his line on McGary, to offer back-up evidence.

    I also believe there’s a large 3rd group of IU fans… Those of us that simply appreciate what Crean has done to this point, aren’t satisfied with only Sweet 16’s, aren’t convinced that he IS the answer to bring us our next title, but also feel he deserves a shot to implement his system with the types of players he can now consistently attract. We’re called the sane, level-headed fans… Ok maybe it’s a smaller group than I think.

  7. You’re called complacent zombies…that watch too much IU football and want to turn IU basketball into the same.

    You’ve hated IU since Knight stuck it to you…and Syracuse…and Korman…and Kellenberger…and Penn State…and Maryland…and Georgetown…and NC….and all your Establishment teams your true backyard affections.

  8. and UCLA….and Dickie V…and Calipari…and Michigan…and Kentucky(and wasn’t afraid to put them on the damn schedule)…and Connie Chung…and a spoiled disrespectful frat rat brat that couldn’t address him differently than a clown in expensive loafers.

    1. Harvard,
      Remember when I talked about letting the blog breathe? This is a good example. Seven posts in less than an hour hammering away at your agenda might be enough.

  9. Well, four were in response to other blogger’s comments(some being backdoor snidely remarks..e.g. Southport’s attempts to ‘save’ me and Geoff’s agenda to defame Mitch McGary)…But I guess they don’t have “agendas.”

    It’s all good, Rhinestones. I’ll let it breathe like a fine wine.

  10. And Podnnker doesn’t have a Mallory agenda? I guess agendas are fine if they are dispersed properly. Keep shooting at the target for three years…Just not rapid fire. I get it now.

  11. Please let me quote articles, that you also quote, in peace…

    I like Mitch McGary. Just not cuckoo for coco puffs… He still has lots to prove.

  12. Re Crean- Double Down, that is an excellent comment. I have several and deep questions about Crean, but agree with you that it would be unfair to say he is a total incompetent. In fairness, I can’t dismiss the fact that there have been players at Indiana that have individually developed by leaps while here and, even if it is one of his assistants who does the actual teaching, you have to credit Crean for having them on the staff and giving them the freedom to work.

    We really have to credit Crean with an eye for talent, a major variable in passing judgment on his overall ability. Oladipo and Sheehey were definitely not players we would have recruited if left to a poll of readers in this blog. That, judging native talent is a huge, huge variable.

    The opposite argument, to criticize Crean for his handling of Xs’ and Os’ and his ‘game management’, making the Hoosiers very vulnerable is also legitimate. I was more than surprised at how poorly prepared we were to play Syracuse. It was like watching Binford Middle School playing Syracuse. And, the fact that Zeller was never pushed to making his body under the board a major force in rebounding is also legitimate.

    Of course, much of the criticism is based on the fact that Crean reminds many of us of the national secretary of a fraternity. He is so socially awkward that even the way he drinks water makes me turn-away. Watching him makes me feel like I need to go to the bathroom (or he does). But…that’s not a fair basketball criticism.

    There is also an elephant in the room no-one ever, ever raises which could be a major factor for the Crean angst, due to its obvious absence. Crean’s has no ‘serious’ basketball history before becoming a college coach, probably near-blasphemy in the Church of the Immaculate Roundball Redeemer of Indiana. None.

    How relevant is it that Crean played high school ball in northern Michigan, had no college experience and sort of ended up- by the very Grace of God- successfully begging his way into Izzo’s; turning it into a career every Alpha male who ever went through puberty in Indiana dreamed and would kill for. That may be the problem, Crean is living OUR dream.

    WHY HIM AND NOT ME GOD?

    (And, at least, God gave Alford a good haircut).

    It absolutely never appears in 99.5% of the Crean curses and critiques, which is exactly what makes it so glaringly obvious. Conspicuous in-your-face-political barber shop envy and simultaneous correctness run amok.

    Why him and not…say…uuhhhh…Harvard??!!…or Dustin (well,… Dustin-like Crean… didn’t even grow up in Indiana). Or Aruss or Coachv?

    My imagination does get even. Sometimes, when I read the take on Crean I, smile imagining the scene,… Harvard drinking short gulps of water, obsessively replacing the top on the bottle, to immediately take it off and doing the Crean ‘quick’ ‘I need to take a pee’ shuffle up and down in front of the bench. Gosh Crean, at least grab down there, it would give the act on the TV screen some justification.

    But, hell in three years I still don’t know how I feel about Crean. And I keep thinking any moment RMK (or the former Mrs. RMK) is going to show up, grab a mike, raise a hand and tell everybody, including Crean, to sit down and shut up.

  13. Who doesn’t have lots to prove…? McGary proved he could deliver in pressure tournament games against some very strong teams. Not very many freshman could play against cupcakes with the level of poise he demonstrated.

    Oladipo and Zeller still have lots to prove(other than the proof they weren’t very hungry to put Indiana back in the company of banner programs).

    And I’m wondering what regular Hoosier Scoop blogger was hiding behind the “iuhoosier1992” screen name when they opened this thread with their Mark Titus piece and their anti-Crean agenda…? For all we know, it could have been someone that works for HT or IDS to simply stir the pot. Or it could have been Geoff…or Mark Titus..or maybe Geoff is Mark Titus.

    Strange how a first-time blogger would pop onto this site to throw mud at Crean. Well, I can tell you two things for certain as death and taxes ..(1)It wasn’t Harvard hiding behind multiple screen names and (2)Scoop knows whose IP address it truly identifies.

    So let that breathe in your little agenda world.

  14. You see, Jeremy..The fact you know most of these sneaky and slimy jerks that hide behind multiple screen names allows you to play this lecturing game with a cheating hand to your audience. If I have an agenda, at least I’m not drawing a new identity under the table. And at least I’m not covering the a$$es of those you allow to throw the slime at Crean but aren’t man enough to do it while using their more identifiable and regular handle on Scoop.

  15. Wow…You really do have it all right at your fingertips. Always looking at the deck. Maybe I’m wrong on the “first-time” accusation…Doesn’t change the fact that history has shown you have let bloggers use multiple names to play games and take snidely jabs and have vendettas/agendas against this said blogger without interference or divulging to your audience the truth of their deceptions(Husky Tom and Ben…just two of the many that come to mind). So, again, let that “breathe” in your little agenda world.

    Niagara Falls is not prolific by my standards.

    1. OK,
      This is ridiculous. I think I fairly exposed those “deceptions” once I determined a pattern, or you wouldn’t yet know about them. Secondly, the irony of complaining about those who disagree with you is rich. And I believe I have defended you against accusations of duplicitous activity, but then you throw them about just as wildly. As your just reward, how about I let you breathe for a while outside this this blogosphere?

  16. I just up-dated…whooaaa! Did I just read a threat from Jeremy directed at Harvard? There was no obscene language, no outrageous insults, just speculation… Come on Jeremy…it reads like the Venezuelan governments (Maduro’s) state censorship threats to the private media.

    I’ll back every attempt to keep this blog civil and ‘clean’, but not one to intimidate a disagreeing blogger into submission.

    1. TTG,
      I could care less who or what Harvard agrees or disagrees with. Differing opinions make the world go round. But this blog is not his private playground to bury all who disagree with him under an avalanche of posts and innuendo, nor to infer that I am somehow secretly working against him or supporting those who might. I think I’ve made it pretty clear that I support fairness and equality here.

      By the way Harvard, if you want to have a discussion, feel free to email me directly, not try to conduct a jury trial on this board.

  17. Harvard simply don’t know when enough is enough. Tries tricky by dragging myself and Husky Tom into the fold. I admit, I gave Harvard a hard time under various names. He was asking for it. Sometimes I really think Harvard is a quack. I never despised his writing skills, but the brother can’t let things go. Their is more to life then blogging. I really think he is addicted to The Scoop. Funny how suddenly he becomes a man of integrity when attacked. How much has the bloggers been attacked by Harvard? I lost count. I really was going to make an effort to mend with Harvard, but just going to skip his posts. I don’t care about being called out anymore. His credibility is dried up like water in a desert. Goodbye Harvard.

    Btw, Jeremy was very fair with me, and put a stop to the attacks. If I frame you one more time, I’m out forever. He knows my IP. I suggest you email Jeremy if you want more info. I give him my permission. See ya Harvard. Comment if you wish. I promise I won’t respond. Ever.

  18. Je3remy- but you do care, it seems, and you are using your power as administrator (is it you or is it D?) to put your hand over his mouth when it is critical of your position. But, as I understand it, as administrator your role is just that…to administrate and make sure the posts do not exceed the limits (language, civility, decency) of the HT.

    I absolutely see nothing in his recent posts that does, His speculation that some contributors are taking advantage of multiple names is absolutely true. (Ironically, I had once accused him of doing just that…until I saw I was wrong and it was not true because there was nothing he was afraid of not saying under his one screen name).

    I see absolutely nothing in Harvard’s recent contributions that violate the basic rules of the blog. Even checking with the ‘HT rules for contributors’ (my synthesis of the subject title), I see nothing to support his being banned. If I missed something, I’d like you to tell me what it is, so we know the rules are even-handed and fair.

    Otherwise, it begins to sound so much of ‘censorship’ and that’s such an ugly word to see in the open internet. Hope you reconsider your decision calmly Jeremy.

  19. Tsao – post #16 was perfectly written.

    Banners – maybe I am Titus…. I see many similarity in our styles, although I’ve tried to rein it in a bit here since being overly snarky doesn’t win you much appeal on this blog. I absolutely prefer to write and read the style of Simmons and Titus. The Book of Basketball is one of the best written and downright hilarious books I’ve ever picked up. Has to be the funniest sports book by about 10 miles, while still giving you relevant analogies, historical perspective, curious topics, and thoroughly researched arguments. I appreciate the compliment. And yes, everyone still has something to prove. Pointing that out isn’t defamation of character.

  20. Titus? Who the hell is Titus? Just another drama journalist sensationalizing for his mirror. He talks about WS being cocky and a loose cannon in the very article he acts cocky while overloading his own loose cannon(take a good look at his purposeful “look, it’s me” picture at the bottom of the article). He gives me no inclination to buy in.

  21. He wasn’t disparaging towards WS… He didn’t say his act was old or tired or that he should change… He was saying that it filled the exact role that IU needed. What he said was absolutely true. As IU fans we, or at least many/most of us, enjoy Sheehey’s on court demeanor, but he is easy to hate if your an opposing fan. Titus was just calling a spade a spade. Not sure how that at all turns you off.

  22. Just to clarify. I don’t work for the HT, IDS, Jeremy or any media outlet. My name is Matt Lunn and I live in Bloomington and graduated from IU in ’92, duh. First and foremost I am a Hoosier fan, even though I grew up in a Boilermaker family. I actually have seen Lee Rose coach Purdue, went to Joe Barry Carrols’ last game in Mackey and even went to the Liberty Bowl and watched Mark Herrmann at QB. I actually work on the east side of Indy. I came across the article because Dan Dakich retweeted the article. I clicked on the link and found it both disturbing and funny. The Sheehey section was great and reminded me of what everyone wanted to do to Brian Cardinal when he was at Purdue. I think Brian created that award. I don’t know Jeremy Price or anyone on the HT staff personally. Just a fan who found an interesting article about the Big Ten and thought it should be shared. Sorry, I got this started Jeremy.

  23. Nothing to sorry for iuhoosier. The posts you provide are refreshing. Some people feelings get easily shattered here. Don’t let that distract you. Jeremy Price has a good handle on this place. Some people can’t be helped. They moan because Price and Dopirak don’t take action, or moan because Price and Dopirak tighten the reigns like everyone wants them too. Welcome to The Scoop. Hope to see more contributions from you.

  24. Not disparaging! Then why the words loose cannon and cocky? If that be the case then I’ve understood the definition of cocky and loose cannon wrong for a damn long time.

  25. It amazes me how sometimes how fans on this site are so narrow mined with their comments. It’s like this site is the only one some read. It is well documented on sites, including ESPN, CBSSports, Sports Illustrated, The Indy Star, numerous news papers (including this one), Inside the hall, other IU blogs and on and on where you can read about Coaches and former players, past and current, who comment about our Coach and his abilities. in a positive way.

    Sure he lost a bad game against the Orange last year, a lot of teams lose to the Orange just look at their Coaches record but you know what Coach beat the Orange several times when he was a Big East Coach. He got out coached in one game. How about all the other ranked teams we beat last year including the NCAA runner up twice. However, his peers view him as one of the top ten hardest coaches to play against (recent ESPN article) because of his X’s & O’s. He was in the top 10 voted on by Coaches! There are lots of positive things being said about IU these days in the National outlets but here in our tiny view some bloggers want his head. I suggest you read other things to get a bigger picture including the Newspaper that sponsors this site.

    Sometimes it is like we all get tunnel vision, myself included, but IU basketball matters again!! We should all be happy about that. Are there area’s for improvement, sure. That is true with any basketball team except the 1975 and 1976 Hoosiers. When all you talk about are a Coach’s quirky habits you have lost your focus. How would you like someone taking repeatedly about you habits, and we all have them, and making fun of you daily. It makes me think you should focus on basketball and not each other or anyone’s habits. Now I know H4H thinks I am talking about him because he likes the role as Scape Goat. Well I am, in a way, because he is the worst at this, but everyone of us have made rude and hurtful things. This is for taking about basketball not a forum for personal attacks at least that is the way I see it.

    I am leaving this site for good this time. I hope Dustin,Andy and Jeremy can help get this site back on track before they lose all their viewers. So slam me all you want because I will not know because I won’t be reading this site either.

  26. HC – you seriously don’t think that Sheehey acts cocky on the court?! I don’t know what to tell you man… He hits a 3 he does the 3-to-the-dome thing… He dunks on people and gives a stare or a “WOOOOOO!” or both.

    He doesn’t have the reputation he does for no reason. He IS cocky on the court. I’m not sure that the “loose cannon” title applies, because I think his persona is calculated… But I can see where a fan of anther B1G team could perceive it that way.

    But I understand completely where Titus is coming from… He says “as much as I love the enthusiasm that Sheehey brings to the game” and “to be clear, I’m not criticizing Sheehey”… And I believe those statements to be true. It’s very similar to how Harvard views my stance on McGary – he thinks I’m being disparaging, which couldn’t be further from the truth. I have nothing against Mitch… I think he’ll be a very effective college player… I like the way he plays the game… But I’m not going to give him credit in areas he hasn’t earned them… I’m not disparaging McGary. I’m just calling a spade a spade. Titus is doing the same thing with Sheehey.

  27. Indeed Sheehey is cocky. That is quite obvious to me. However, I do like it in small doses. I think it gives a team an edge. If my instinct is correct, I believe Sheehey is very demanding of others, but not a bully. Wants others around him to succeed.

  28. Geoff-

    You really need to stop acting like you don’t have an ounce of bias and have the ability to be perfectly objective on everything.

    McGary took the NCAA tournament by storm. It’s not anything I can prove. It’s what I felt. It’s what I thought I was hearing in the captivated voices of many announcers that were stunned and joyously jumping on the train…It’s emotion and I’m guilty. You want to tone it all down because he stole our show. Titus(an OSU fan) wants to tone it down for the same reason he’s calling Crean the creep uncle. He’s not a journalist.

    Dustin couldn’t write a piece in that style without being kicked out of this town by a crowd of Southport65’s. The piece was funny, but ‘Mr. My Whole Family is Purdue Except I Still Love ‘Em My Hoosiers’ placed the article on this site for the same reason Dakich found it “interesting”…It wreaks of jealousy of IU. Dakich will forever have his ax to grind(his jealous ax that is so carefully cloaked and crafted in “I love IU” and “I’m personal friends with the Zeller family”)because he wasn’t given the vote of confidence to be the head man the year after the bottom fell out. He’s almost as bitter as Bob Knight.

    but much like Harvard’s inability to contain his emotions and moderate his tongue, they all do nothing but build support for Tom Crean. People love to go against the grain. It’s human nature. It’s never been the uncensored and loud cries that have played the dirtiest hand. The quiet conniving and manipulation outside the public view is where the real dirt gets moved and the agendas unseen and unheard are fashioned for ending or derailing careers.

  29. Are there words to describe “I am not criticizing Sheehey”, correctly, while writing a critical article about Sheehey? Is it not disparaging to print in red letters about an enormous chest tattoo and compare WS to the Rock about to give the People’s Elbow not in a negative light? I’ll not even start about his BS for Crean. The cocky loose cannon is the image Titus sees when looking in the mirror. This bozo must be unhappy at Grantland and thinks he should move up. Odds are another bozo will accommodate him.

  30. Jeremy-

    I would like to volunteer for some community service in offering to hot-melt some of your rhinestones that might have fallen off during our ruckus. Thanks for keeping Dustin off my back. I support you entirely and appreciate greatly that you have not let the east coast Establishment crowd, the Korman’s descendants that infiltrated HT with the agenda to quell our greatness, to take down the Hoosier Castle and everything special this fine state and university they so desperately wish they could bottle and take back to their own cupboard.

  31. For what it’s worth..I also thought Titus’s piece was very funny and harmless. It’s your ability on the court/office/stage that speaks the greatest volume. The best form of redemption in any festive mockery at your expense is to shut up your critics with quiet results(rather than preachy persecution on how everyone ruined the place before you came to town).

    Shut us up, Doug Mallory. Bring a defensive effort that makes Podunker smile. Shut us up, Tom Crean…Take us as deep as the “incompetent” Mike Davis took a team that came from 17 pts down to beat #1 Duke. Shut me up, Hanner..and become the next Hakeem “The Dream”…

    Don’t we all feed off the journalists and “bozos” that beg to be shut up? It’s no different than Will Sheehey’s pride in his gifts and the friendly signals of intimidation he sends someone he’s dunked on to shut him up. If he can do that on the court, then why in the hell can’t Mark Titus use his gifts to play a bit of taunt on a keyboard?

    That’s three posts in a row. Time to stop.

  32. I don’t have an ounce of bias against McGary. That I can say with 100% certainty. It takes zero brains to know that McGary was one of the top 3 stories of the tournament (Ware, Florida Gulf Coast being the others), but that doesn’t make him a great player worthy of heaping praise on parts of his game that don’t deserve it.

    HC, we disagree on many things, and I guess we’ll have to disagree that this was a critical article of Sheehey. I just don’t see an ounce of criticism in it, at least in a negative sense.

    I also thought much of what he said about Crean was fair. I disagree with the premise that he cannot win a NC. I’ll have a much better understanding of that in 2017.

  33. I actually thought what happened to the once #1 Hoosiers as they became the Wheresiers was one of the other two top stories.

    And it’s just as simple to say to McGary…Let’s see what you can do now without a Trey Burke in the backcourt(implying get to championship game) as it is to say to Cody…”Let’s see what you can do now(get us past a Sweet 16)now that you have some real athleticism in the backcourt unhampered by the slow and inept hometown Hulls.”

    Proving is also showing what you can do when more is at your disposal..If anything, it’s more proof. You have to play up to talent rather than blame your shortcoming on the complimentary talent not present.

  34. Yeah, that’s your typical myopia coming through Harvard. There were lots of teams ranked #1 last year. The only consensus last year was that the tournament was wiiiiiiiide open. All year long people said that any one of 12 teams could’ve won the title… And it just so happened that one of the teams did. Had IU lost to a lesser opponent it may have been more of a story, but they lost to an extremely talented, highly ranked, difficult match-up in Syracuse.

    Further proof that your attachment to McGary is Chesterton-driven.

    Listen, it’s fine Harvard. You’re a homer. It’s very difficult for you to be objective. It’s part of who you are. Own it and move on. Every opinion you have is motivated by a positive or negative emotion for your Hoosiers or your hometown. Facts aren’t necessarily part of your equation. It’s fine. It doesn’t make you bad, but denying those things makes you less relevant. Own it and be relevant.

    Own it – say “I don’t like Crean because I have a FEELING he is ultimately bad for the program and we can do better.”

    Own it – say “I have a man crush on McGary because he’s from Chesterton because he’s from my home town and that makes me FEEL proud.”

    Own it – say “I thought IU losing was one of the big story lines of the NCAA tourney because that’s what I care about.”

    Own it – say “I wish IU recruited more kids from northern Indiana because that’s where I’m from.”

    Leave out the trying to prove it parts. Keep it real. It’s who you are and that’s fine. Embrace it.

  35. More name-calling…It’s all good, Geoff.

    I’m truly sorry I didn’t have lunch with you. Quit making it your fault. It’s not your fault.

  36. Is “homer” more or less offensive than “Establishment”? (Or if you have skin that isn’t paper thin, equally un-offensive)

  37. It’s not your fault.

    And I’m relieved that Crean pandered to the locals and couldn’t identify nor convince the talent in the northern sector of the state to come to Indiana while its under his divine guidance. The entire labeling of recruiting group of Indiana kids within a 50 mile radius of Indiana, naming it as a “Movement” when it doesn’t encompass any consideration of statewide talent from every corner, as the necessary step in saving the program is about as “homer” as it gets. There is nothing more ‘homeresque’ than what Tom Crean is selling daily on Twitter within the context all his villain chasing and needy seeking validation from Bob Knight. Size of town or inflated background has nothing to do with smallness.

    And seeking the safety of lofty millions over the spiritual warmth in the heart and immortal convictions found in the memories you built with teammates in the all-out effort to attain the ultimate goal of bringing Indiana back to elite banner company is also “homer.”

    Then again, we all can’t be as eclectic and trailblazing as a small town kid that is more sure of himself and his goals than a grown man. McGary captured hearts for the depths found in such simple loves.

  38. I had forgotten that it was Crean named it “The Movement”…

    There are lots of homers out there Harvey. You’re definitely not the only one. Maybe it will make you feel all warm and gooey to know you’re part of such an illustrious group as to include Crean.

  39. “It takes zero brains” is nothing I’ve ever attached to Establishment. Yes, it’s derogatory in terms of implying an inherent bias and prejudices(especially in the context of how the media, primarily dominated by strongholds in the East and West) rooted in slanted perceptions and its underhanded hypocrisy rooted it their own version of geographical elitism and cultural superiority. But do I ever attach a lack of intelligence to such grossly unfair stereotypes cast upon the Midwestern simpletons from their higher mountaintop? Nope.

    You have some real issues with the IQ thing…I’m sensing it goes back to family and brother comparisons. Own it. Embrace it. And don’t take it out on Chesterton, Indiana. Abe Lincoln grew up in a log cabin. He was pretty cosmopolitan and quite deep in his heart and convictions.

  40. I also sense cobwebs forming on stroller wheels…Some of my best poems used to come to me when taking our beautiful child out for strolls along the sidewalks.

    Thankfully, there was no blogging during the years our child’s first glances from a playpen of imprisonment. It’s scary to think of how social media and blogging is taking complete days away from children. …Gorgeous autumn days and the last remnants of a warming sun upon the cheeks before the frigid blasts from the north force all to retreat to their cozy blogging dens.

    Take junior out for a stroll. There’s nothing more ‘homer’ than a buggy and daddy giving push. Do you have sidewalks in your town? You could play step on a crack and break Harvey’s back.

  41. Found it..

    Ron Patterson signs his letter of intent

    Broad Ripple guard Ron Patterson the second player to commit to Indiana’s vaunted 2012 class and the one who dubbed it “The Movement” signed his letter of intent at 3 p.m. on Wednesday, leaving Lawrence Central swingman Jeremy Hollowell as the last of the five committed players waiting to sign. Hollowell has a signing day ceremony scheduled for 7 p.m.(courtesy: Hoosier Scoop, Ron Patterson makes it four, by Dustin Dopirak).

    You really need to get your facts straight.

  42. Stroller adventure will definitely happen Monday… Veteran’s Day is also Daddy Daycare Day as I have it off, wifey doesn’t and the daycare is closed. This weekend I’ll be baching it as the wife and kid head to Meme’s. I’ll be watching hoops and football and playing with the pup. Also heading to a HOF dinner, as one of my good buddies is being inducted by his college. Very happy for him and I can’t wait to watch him struggle at the podium… Actually I’m sure he’ll be great up there.

    But, uh, back to the lecture at hand
    Perfection is perfected, so I’m ‘a let ’em understand

    You mean to tell me that it wasn’t Crean “selling” or “pandering” or “labeling” it The Movement? Weird, I thought I read something, somewhere, very recently that was trying to insinuate that.

  43. Just saw the unquestioned #1 highlight on SportsCenter tonight… average looking white kid named Weethee from VMI just caught the ball at the FT line, faked a handoff, took a dribble right, cradled the ball, cocked it back, and tomahawked it over a guy trying to take a charge – and 1.

    It will be one of the top 5 dunks of the season…

  44. You just can’t admit when you get something wrong. It’s o.k..

    Crean had no choice but to go all-out for Cody and he pandered by taking nearly the entire AAU circle of connections right down to his buddy Austin and the extreme A-Hope projects(I believe there was also an ESPN piece written about that…Mike Fish?). Don’t get anymore homer close to home.

    Sounds like you have quite the busy weekend. Have a good time. My weekend begins with taking some homemade butternut squash soup over to my dad. He’ll emotionally beat me up as usual and then tell me I can still tackle the world at my late stage. He’ll call me a ‘spring chicken’ and pass some loud gas that he can’t hear himself pass because of fading hearing and improperly adjusted hearing aides…Or, maybe he just likes blowing cheese in my face..? Maybe he’ll talk a little Pacers and Colts and then ask me if I can fix the toilet that is coming loose from its seal/floor mounts again….

  45. The Harvard broken record. Same conclusions in search of evidence. No acknowledgement at all of the constant vicissitudes and unknown variables that go into reality. A search for truth demands much more rigor and openness in search of evidence to test a hypothesis in hopes of finding a conclusion. For those of us that seek knowledge as it’s own good are particularly attuned to the fact that a false premise taken as axiomatically true can logically support any conclusion one wishes.

    I certainly hope that McGary has a Big Ten leading year followed by a 2nd round exit by Michigan and he leaves early for the NBA. Your brain will overheat trying to manage the twists and turns that it will take to find evidence in search of your preexisting conclusion. The rest of us will sleep easy that night seeing the world as it is, drinking it in and enjoying it for what it is.

  46. [Comment Double Down: ]
    What’s the capital of Chicago? Michael Jordan?

    You’re cute…Really, you are. Quite funny, too. Great sense of humor. Love the ‘Haha’ chuckles.

    Wow…Did one get out of the ITH corral?

  47. [Comment From Double Down: ]
    Willie Rosenthal shoots free throws like a dog with worms.

    And that one left me rolling on the floor…Simply hilarious. You really should try stand-up to go along with your deep searching of all the variables BS you’ve mastered. Maybe make it a profession. You’ve got some real talent there. I cannot stop saying ‘haha’ to myself. Bravo to you and your depth.

  48. Looks like a touched a nerve, Harvard. If you want to take your frustrations out on me, I’ll gladly take them.

  49. No frustrations. It’s your nerve that was obviously touched by entering into a thread you decided to involve yourself in after all the dust had basically settled. For what purpose? Easy.. Nothing other than cheap shot purposes. Did I mention or attack you on this thread before you decide to bless the audience with your “broken record” comment.

    Funny how I have repeatedly been accused as the instigator of digressions that begin with insults(an old tactic started by Loaffie). Here’s the Double Down LiveChat comedian finding it helps civility on Scoop by casting insults 56 posts into a thread he/she had zero involvement. Don’t like my opinions..? At least I have some. I rather thought a blog was more than just a place to reiterated the morning weather in Pollyannaville.

    And Podunker is not a “broken record” with his campaign against Mallory that started three years ago? You guys really need a reality check for having such a fine understanding every reality and logical pathways to the vigorous necessities your sound conclusion determined for all but that inflated reflection in the mirror.

  50. Oh listen sugarpie, you should learn to take a spoonful of what you dish out. I’m perfectly calm. I know you are looking for an emotional reaction, but I’m all good over here. When your ideas are challenged, you feel personally attacked. That’s unfortunate.

    It sounds like all this Hoosier sports talk is very emotional for you. After all, you posted as many comments today as Indiana had put up points on Chi State.

    I’m sorry chat offends you so much. I also noticed your yellow-bellied way of taking quotes from chat and posting them in a different thread. That’s weak sauce, Jack, but as the great Tupac once said, I ain’t mad atcha.

    I appreciate the work that the proprietors of this site put into everything here and I love hanging out with them during games on chat because they seem like good fellas. I enjoy it a lot. Interacting with them is fun because they’re guys you could have beers with. You should try it sometime, instead of whining to them regularly. Plus they are great at their jobs. The fact that they cover our school with the respect and journalistic integrity required of their profession, yet they also come to interact with the community on a human level is remarkable. We’re fortunate to have these guys around.

    BTW, please re-write your last sentence in #61, as it is illegible. I have no idea what you even attempted to say there.

  51. The sentence makes perfect sense, Kojak.

    And it’s “weak” to go into attack mode while slathering praises on the “good fellas” that run this site. Shows you’re a conning manipulator(which was already evident when you came onto this thread at post #55 for nothing other than to cast an insult, honeybuns).

  52. Harvard, your midwestern hospitality overfloweth. I find it as a sign of respect when people are honest with me. I come bearing the truth as a sign of respect to you. You have destroyed yet another thread around here with your same pedantic refrains. You (I assume, a grown adult), were told by another grown adult who’s job it is to keep this place in order. Low and behold, you’re still at it. You ruin any kind of actual discourse around here and I’ve been around long enough to be tired of it.

    I’ll slink back and enjoy my day and look forward to the deluge of self-congratulatory, conclusions you’ll enlighten us with as I come back to talk with everyone during today’s IU football game. Don’t worry, sweatpea, I won’t leave early in fear of losing your respect as a fan.

  53. I will say one thing…You have a strong vocabulary, marmalademuffin.

    And after the grown adult was answered to, you decided to come on here and stir the pot with your whining and your three paragraphs of nothing but insults. And Podunker came in to pile on like a child as well. So, please, let’s not act like you’re a grown adult, puddingcup.

    And what was to ruin on this thread? Four hours before a single comment was placed on this thread that Scoop is primarily using for nothing other than a re-posting of a Thursday chat that had already taken place. Not to mention that the initial post on this thread(not placed by Harvard) was offered with full intention of stirring the pot with a pasted quote from Titus’s piece that was highly critical of “creepy uncle” Crean(which had nothing to do with any of the topics discussed in the Thursday chat).

    So now it’s criminal that I stirred the pot on an already stirred pot? No bloggers were insulting fellow bloggers in the initial posts of this thread. It’s the opinions you don’t like and that’s why you went into insult mode after all the dust had settled.

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