1. Fab,
    With the in-state guys, usually everyone’s involved because they can be. Kenny Johnson is obviously the main East Coat guy because he’s connected out there and he gets everything started out there. Buckley tends to be the lead guy in-state, but Crean gets to be much more constantly involved because he doesn’t have to get on a plane to go watch them in-season and he can check out high school games on Friday nights before heading to games on Saturday. So who gets credit as the “lead guy,” for Hollowell I’m not sure. I know I saw Crean himself at a bunch of his games. This isn’t one where you could blame anything on “Hollowell’s guy,” leaving the program and leaving busted goods. This was one the staff agreed on and certainly that the head coach wanted all along.

  2. Right, I’m curious as to who saw the “edge” that Crean loves and “admires” so much in recruits with this student athlete. I know you liked D’Vauntes Smith-Rivera, I see him play and I “love the ‘edge’ he has”

  3. Fab, you have a conclusion in search of evidence. Some recruits just don’t pan out. It happens with every coach. Crean and staff went hard after Smith-Rivera and he chose G’Town after a slew of players in his position committed to IU. I guess this concept of “edge” gets applied when it is suits the narrative, no?

    Re: Hollowell: I’m not ready to shut the door on him yet. How instantly dismissive we are of a 20 year-old kid. Maybe I just realize that sitting here and rooting for him to fail is a losing proposition that reflects more on me than it does on him. I have no idea whether he’ll turn it around or not, but I’m rooting for a turn around story here, because that would be good for the Indiana basketball program and for JH himself.

    Gasp. I realize this might reflect positively on the coach, however. It is understood that some might immediately find that fact offensive.

  4. Rooting for Jeremy also. But we aren’t asking him to get married, get a job, buy a home, make house payments, clock in and clock out and “grow up.” All we want to see is effort, usually when extreme effort isn’t shown there is a reason , bigger than just “he doesn’t get it.” So that expectation isn’t asking too much “of a kid.” Main reason I’m wondering what IU saw in him to take not only a risk at bringing him in but also extending a much bigger olive branch to him (using him through his errors on a vet laden squad last yr, “giving” him the starting job and all opportunities to succeed at the beginning of this season) is that many many veteran Indiana high school basketball fans were raising constant flags about this guys effort and interest level in doing the small things to help a team win, so far it looks like all the warnings they saw clearly were founded.

  5. The first part of your comment is a red herring. Entirely irrelevant to the discussion.

    The expectations are high for JH. His behavior was punished by sitting on the bench for 2 games. But, it also looks like Jeremy responded to being benched by going 2-3 from the field, making all 4 of his free throws, playing good defense and looking good in transition. All on the road in one of the toughest environments in the Big Ten.

    I think most veteran Indiana high school basketball fans are usually slow in the rush to judgement and see that “development” isn’t a buzz word, but an actual thing. It is no insight to show that JH is no Gary Harris. But few are. We’ll keep an eye on him and judge his performances as they happen.

    I’m suspicious that JH is just a proxy to prove your point about the head coach.

  6. You used the comment that some ppl are instantly dismissive of a 20 yr old kid I’m saying that’s simply not accurate, there are many ppl who have followed JHs career and say all these things have been happening for many years, not just an “instant”. all I’m saying is the signs, to some ppl, have been there for many seasons, you can hold out hope and expect change but the truth is the number of guys who are similar to Hollowell (poor enthusiasm, poor body language, poor energy, occasionally disciplined) and don’t change their ways far out way those who do.

  7. Body language as an indicator? That’s a tough call. Think that’s his ‘game face’. That’s his mask against emotion.

    I’m on the side of the fence thinking he’s gonna get-it one of these games and will be a major part of IU’s future success. And uh, Saturday will be a good time for him to start.

    Do you think Troy’s emotions are a good part of his game? That’s what, two “T’s” in two games? Made good points but than gave them away.

  8. Dunno but apparently the emotional Williams keeps something in check that the stoic and calm Hollowell doesn’t, seeing as how Troy hasn’t lost his starting gig and been benched for 3 games due to “a focus issue.”

  9. I don’t agree, Fab. I think that is a bit of a cop out. I’ve seen many kids that have had all kinds of assumptions made about them, make changes and ultimately find success, or least develop the passion and desire to work for it. There is no insight in saying that there are some kids that don’t step up. No kidding. Darwinism explains this dynamic over millions of years.

    However, I don’t see what benefit comes from flipping one’s nose at a kid who’s only 1/3 of the way through his development at IU. Especially right now when he is arguably at his lowest point. Crean didn’t tell JH to pack his bags and get out of Bloomington. He punished him and, so far, JH looks like he’s taken it to heart and made improvements.

    There’s a lot of distance between the cup and the mouth and I don’t expect success–it is just that I’m open to it. But, ultimately, I find very little value in making a judgement call on his entire future.

  10. Nothing I’ve said has been out of line or inappropriate. I said that so far all the hs fans, coaches and opponents who were critical of a few of his red flags have been justified in their apprehensions. No one here is rooting for kids to fail or not to grow, change and improve. But so far those who were not completely sold on his offer and his recruitment appear to be justified. You don’t even know the kid you are defending that’s the funniest part of the whole ordeal, just cause he wears stripe pants doesn’t mean he is your success story, leave him alone.

  11. Fab,

    I never said you were out of line or inappropriate. We just see things differently and I’m telling why I see things the way I do. I just happen to disagree with you.

    Also, I think in each post that I responded to, I said very clearly that I don’t know JH nor do I know what his future holds. Funny how you are able to make conclusions at this stage and when my conclusion is “I don’t know,” you’re accusing me of defending a kid that I don’t know.

    Personally, thinking it is “the funniest part of the whole ordeal,” that I’m willing to let time and not my limited-to-zero knowledge of the situation determine Jeremy’s fate, vs concluding that he’s a heartless, lazy kid, isn’t that funny to me.

  12. Just keep in mind that Watford was lazy and heartless..

    Somebody on this blog stuck with him. He sorta hit a big shot a couple years ago…Sorta got a momentous block against Temple enabling somebody to put “Back-to-Back Sweet 16’s” plastered all over t-shirts and twitter pages.

    Without those two plays, Zeller looks like the biggest villain in history for bailing on IU after just two seasons.

    Watford…? Yeah, the IU ship had sailed without his lazy butt….I sailed many times. Then he answered the call of a Harvard prediction and a game that shocked the world. I think I’ll throw Jeremy a life jacket and tug him along in the wake for a few more games….Seems like the diplomatic thing to do.

  13. That’s my beef right there, no one, well maybe some, are saying he’s that but myself and others aren’t calling him names or blasting his character or future. Ppl need to slow down their aggressive tendencies towards those they disagree with. I have no problem with JH, he’s likely a great kid. But just because I say he’s given me no signs on the court to see why he was given a spot above other kids (and that I do feel like I’ve seen enough to be skeptical) doesn’t mean I actually mean some sort of negative undertone that u are immediately then alluding too. You believe in him, I do not, and it has nothing to do with who he is off the court but everything with who he is on the court. Off the court he’s probably an amazing kid to be around, on the court he appears to not enjoy basketball. That’s a concern. You believe he’s the next Watford, I do not. I think he’s more AJ Ratliff, we’ll see, so far I’m right.

  14. Don’t put words in my mouth. Where did I say he’s the next Watford? He doesn’t have the versatility I saw in Watford. Then again, he has some instincts at finding openings in the paint. He also has a nose for the ball and very good anticipation for boards. His shot is more suspect, but that could have a lot to do with confidence.

    I think there’s a tendency to always find a player to throw disproportionate blame…That’s where I see the similarity/comparison to Watford. After Watford hit is big shot, focus moved to Hulls and that all would be good when we got the bigger and more athletic guards. Always a villain. I guess it’s normal…We have a coach that likes to create enemies…I create them. We all create them.

    Hollwell is a very good basketball player. There’s a lot of experimentation in lineups and it’s not always the easiest to shine above the rest the pack when a coach has to give all on the roster a fair look. Crean is testing his new freshman to see how each guy reacts to pressure, pace, and adversity. Hollowell has a different environment to earn his 2nd year minutes than Watford encountered at IU. There might be a little frustration in the sharing with the development processes some of the freshman because it keeps Jeremy off a rhythm as well. And that’s why I think the shooting will improve…And though satisfaction should come from the ‘big things'(boards, defensive tenacity, steals, assists, shot blocking, protecting the ball, making crisp cuts), there’s nothing better to put a smile back on a face than the shots beginning to fall.

  15. Was talking to Double Down, never addressed it to you Harv, my mistake for not clarifying that, didn’t even read your posts

  16. I see no mention of Watford from Double Down on this thread…

    Not saying that he never called Hollowell the next Watford at some previous point in time. I guess you’re referring to something Double Down said on another thread?

    Sorry for the misunderstanding…Since I was the only that that even brought up Watford’s name on this thread, I simply thought you may have misread my comments. Hollowell is no Watford. I don’t want him to be Watford. Watford was Watford. Hulls was Hulls. Each player is unique and can bring their own beneficial skill sets to the floor. And with those skill sets can come some weaknesses that can drain a team if exposed. Outside of limiting physical abilities and size, weaknesses can be chipped away, camouflaged, or coached up to a point that they become less a detriment to a team(e.g. Yogi’s shooting stroke).

    Davis reminds me a lot of Daryl Thomas….That’s only because I see physical size factors and similariites that in game/attitude/role that jostlerhythm my old Hoosier memories. Is he the next Daryl Thomas? Only if he wants to be a 20-year-old college basketball player trapped in the body of a 45-year-old man that played when the game was far less athletically demanding.

  17. Fab,

    I”m going to try one more time here. I never accused you of blasting his character, but I don’t agree with you that you weren’t subtly making a judgement on his future. You sure as heck are. You’ve made the bet that he’s more like AJ Ratliff, less like Watford based on “his effort” and that “he doesn’t look like he enjoys being on the basketball court.”

    I do think it is unfair to him that you are so sure about the rest of his future. My point is that conclusions like this aren’t really that instructive or insightful.

    Harvard is absolutely right in that people are always looking for a scapegoat. Maybe that is why I’m sensitive to it. Every year there is at least one player that drives everyone bananas and people project their anger on to him. Actually, the main lightning rod is the head coach. Then it’s some rotation of players that demonstrate a level of inconsistency: Verdell, Watford, Hulls & Hollowell in order.

    BTW, this doesn’t mean that criticism of their play is forboden. We’re here to analyze games, break down individual play and how things went with, as you say, some great basketball minds. The best discussions happen when the qualitative adjectives and assumptions are removed. Since this is the Internet, I’m not naive enough to believe that this perfect world would ever exist.

    JH took a nice step forward the other night and all I read in comments about him are how he doesn’t want to be out there and that his effort is lacking. I saw him drive right at Dawson on the road with IU down 4. That is not the characteristic of someone that doesn’t care to be out there.

    This is likely my last reply. I’m just repeating myself.

  18. Fair, and this is my last reply because I know what I mean and I know how I feel and I can’t seem to convince you that whatever stereotypes you’ve built up about ppl who don’t agree with you being negative or wrong is not a roadblock I can overcome, I was fine with 85% of what you’d reply with but then you ended each post with words implied toward my thinking that were negative or judgmental about JH that I simply know I don’t feel or mean, therefore it’s obvious to me you are basically looking for anyone that doesn’t agree with you and saying “wrong wrong wrong” and additionally adding a few twisted angles to their posts. I haven’t said anything different than Crean or any of his teammates have said, or his exHS coach- Jeremy has to get it together, it’s up to Jeremy, etc etc read what Shelt his HS coach told him his soph yr, told him “it’s not working, either quit or transfer” Crean spent past 2 wks sending same message, you are on here acting like I picked out Noah and put him on blast. Why is JH on blast by so many ppl? Your idea that all teams need a scapegoat is petty and naive. It’s because he’s been playing poorly, again this has nothing to do with who he is or who he might become. Me saying he might be AJ Ratliff and you thinking that is “condemning his future” shows that you are assuming AJ Ratliff has a miserable life just cause bball at IU didn’t work out. I don’t think like that, AJ probably has a great life, Jeremy probably will too. But do I think Jeremy Hollowell will end up being a starter and contributing scorer on a great IU team? Nope, and so far nothing he’s done at IU or in HS has shown otherwise, he has potential, ok. Potential for what, to try? To care? To play hard? Why do those things need to be buttons pushed? But potential isn’t what he needs, nor is that why he was benched, nor is that why he lost his starting gig. Again who did that? Was it you or I? Nope it was his Coach, coach reduced his role, not me. “Focus issues” is a nice way of saying “motivation issues” or “attitude issues.” 3 games and loss of starting is big issue, no small thing occurred. The knowledge I have is that Crean took him out of “starters” role and JH then gave little effort, dropping back all the way to 4th team, practice squad during practice/drills and thus receiving the playing time he deserved. I’ve been around basketball my whole life, when these are the issues you are working through at 20 there are more underlying issues at hand. And honestly if there are 17 kids in a group 3-4 of them are rolling their eyes and thinking “this guy doesn’t know what he’s talking about” is that JH ? Dunno. But he did something. You want to say I’m not allowed to say “I don’t think his playing career at IU will go well” but I think I’m ok saying that, never once did I wish him ill will or say his future isn’t bright off the court.

Comments are closed.