24 comments

  1. Football is starting to catch up with basketball at Indiana and the one responsible for this revolution (movement, if you want) is clearly none other than Coach … Tom Crean.

    I agree that the basketball team needed their back against the wall. And with the back against the wall this team will manage to achieve the impossible: they will manage to push the wall a bit further.

    MSU dismantled us at home with Sheehey on the court. Without Sheehey we were in control for the most part in East Lansing. Next game why don’t we try without Sheehey AND Crean. What do we have to lose?

  2. Andy, I’m in agreement with your thoughts as to a 3-4 scheme fitting some of the IU personnel. I actually think some of our LB’s fit it as well as do some of our DL. I think its selective use as an aggressive tactic can be as big a positive for this unit to be successful and confident as Knorr will be in changing the overall D personality. I, like you, think the 2014 defense was going to be some better regardless of a coaching change but in no way was Coach Mallory going to change tactics or ever consider a 3-4. As you stated multiple is going to happen and the IU D needs multiple options. I believe the 3-4 will in 2 years be a big part in allowing us to surpass the Huskers in recruiting. HS players who play the 3-4 like it. A bunch. Just ask Tony Fields.

  3. HC before we start discussing IU passing teams in recruiting can we first put together an above .500 record?

    For as prolific as our offense has become we still aren’t having the highly rated recruits lining up at our door. Winning and exposure still trumps scheme from what I can tell when it comes to recruiting. Heck, MSU won the Rose Bowl and finished 13-1 and is still no better than fifth in the conference recruiting rankings. Saying in 2 years you expect IU to surpass a storied program like Nebraska is really going out on a limb.

    I’m of the wait and see crowd when it comes to Knorr and his 3-4 defensive scheme. I’m just hoping he provides better instruction in the art of tackling as that seems to be a fundamental issue this past several seasons.

    If by chance his 3-4 defense corrects many of our defensive issues, great, we’ll finally go bowling. We might also see a bump in recruiting as well, but moving past some of the more established programs is not going to be a two year time table in my opinion.

  4. Waitingforwins, I enjoyed your post because I thought just as you till I looked up some history. The Huskers play good football but not what you and I remember historically. Over the past 5 recruiting classes(2010-2014)Bo and staff have not signed 1 5* player but in 2010 they had 8 4* commits, 2011 11 4*’s 2012 6 4*’s, 2013 5 4*s and so far in 2014 4 4*’s. He has maintained a W/L of 4 loses a year. But Bo is not advancing the program. There is a trend. Nebraska is in decline. They are successful but not what you and I remember. He is not getting the job done. He is Lloyd Carr of the B1G West(lack of momentum). On the other hand IU is on the incline with recruiting the past 3 years and gaining in the W/L column. IU needs 2 successful years and they will overcome the Huskers in recruiting(maybe in 3 years that could be a tie).

  5. I sorta feel like Nebraska’s basketball program is gaining greater advantages through Big 10 exposure.

    Indiana and Nebraska appear to be going through transformations and looking for hope based on fading storied programs and new solutions for the ‘identity crisis.’

    The Indiana barns have weathered their last old coats of basketball red…The dusty and decades-old banners in Assembly feel more the grave symbols of a time lost than the intellectual infusions from the chalkboard, all-business, knight-esque coach that breeds a genesis form of hope into Memorial.

    And maybe the same is now occurring in Nebraska…The big farm boys grown into sturdy lineman no longer harvest the fields of Cornhusker country while smelling the fall of the football air under the great expanses of a harvest moon on Friday night. The passions for all things eventually crumble like grain to the weight of time and struggle..and the quicker pathways to replace the patience that once built it all begins the evolution of traditions in decline. Oh, how bland, what we once only dieted upon. How cosmopolitan, and evenly spread our profits, politically correct and generously dedicated, to every pursuit we have become. And with it sings the twirling lonely winds upon the windmill calling out your name from Mr. Collier’s abandoned Nebraska farm and the rusted rims hanging by last bolt dangling upon the skeleton the Stevens family Indiana barn. …Identity crisis in reverse, we dig and fuss into our empty purse.

  6. HC I looked at the average class ranking for Nebraska and IU from 2010 thru 2014 and the Cornhuskers average class ranking was 21.8 to IU’s 59.6. A lot of that depends on the size of the class, but still it indicates the disparty in the two programs.

    I disagree that Nebraska is in decline. They may not be the power they once were, but they still have been to a bowl in each of those years while IU has not. That’s much easier to sell to a recruit than IU’s, “Come play for us and we might make it to a bowl game.”

    The biggest disparity between the two programs is coaching, especially on the defensive side of the ball. The Nebraska players know how to wrap up and bring a player to the ground. You just don’t see that with IU football players. Maybe our players just aren’t tough enough? If our coaching staff is unable to improve the performance of an average recruit, I wonder if they will improve the performance of a higher rated recruit.

  7. We are talking recruiting. Nebraska is in decline. Again 4* over most recent 5 years 8, 11, 6, 5, 4 clearly shows decline. There is trouble afoot. Bo is not getting it done. In 2 years IU recruiting surpasses the Huskers.

  8. When did the number of stars beside a player’s name make any difference as some have stated in past posts……..Number of stars and numerical ranking plus good coaching do make a difference.

  9. I guess MSU’s recruiting has been trending down for the last five years.

    2009 10 4*
    2010 4 4*
    2011 2 4*
    2012 3 4*
    2013 3 4*

    I guess Dantonio should return the Conference Championship and Rose Bowl trophies because it obvious star ratings mean more than actual on field performance.

    Call me cynical but I’ll take the player evaluation of Dantonio and his staff over any recruiting service.

    IU had more 4* recruits in 2013 than MSU, so technically you could argue that IU has already surpassed them. I would still take the players Dantonio and his staff have evaluated and signed, and hope to sign next Wednesday over IU’s, UM’s, PSU’s and OSU’s classes. Evaluation and player development are more important than recruiting stars.

  10. HC, I would consider a down trend in recruiting to be associated with the actual wins and losses a program attains and not the number of 4 and 5 star they sign each year.

    Since 2009 Michigan has signed four five star recruits and 51 four star. The only program comparable in the conference is OSU. Is Michigan’s recruiting trend going up or down? If you base it on the number of stars you would say no, but if you base it on their record you would have to say yes. Those highly rated recruits just aren’t cutting it because each year for the three seasons their won loss record has gotten worse.

    If stars were the only factor in winning then like the spartan said, MSU should not have won the conference or rose bowl.

    I want to see Wilson recruit the players who will allow IU the best opportunity to win. If after two years IU passes Nebraska in the recruiting standings but still is mired at the bottom of the standings while Nebraska continues to go bowling your argument will hold little value.

    As Al Davis would say, “Just win baby!”

  11. The fact is Nebraska recruiting is on the decline and has nothing to do with the results the Spartans/Dantonio earn. Bo is not getting it done and in 2 years IU recruiting will surpass the Huskers.

  12. HC I guess I just don’t see the decline. Nebraska lists 13 4 star recruits as having interest in them, IU 3.

    Four and five star players can be more selective as to the teams they have interest in. Very few of these athletes show interest in IU. IU may offer them, but right off the bat the interest level is low. Nebraska offers a four star recruit and his interest is medium to high.

    History and perception play a huge part in recruiting. That is why OSU, UM, and PSU continually have highly rated classes even if they’re on probation or are not performing to previous levels. The perception is these teams won’t be down for long. The perception of IU football is it’s a basketball school. It’s historically been a terrible football program and a couple of near .500 or slightly above is not going to alter that perception much.

    What is going to impress a recruit more, a stadium filled with 100,000 plus screaming fans who stay to the bitter end, or a half to three-quarters filled stadium that is nearly empty after halftime?

  13. 2010 – 8
    2011 – 11
    2012 – 6
    2013 – 5
    2014 – 4
    4* HS players committed to Huskers past 5 years.
    The line on the graph shows decline. Do you see it now? In 2 years IU recruiting surpasses Nebraska.

  14. HC, you definitely put a great deal of trust in the arbitrary star rating supplied by recruiting services.

    As someone who is an actuary I deal with probablity and statistics. Sample size has to be considered as well as frequency of an event. I decided to look at the historical pattern for both Nebraska and IU to better understand your argument.
    Nebraska IU 4*
    2002: 1 5*, 5 4* 0
    2003: 4 4* 0
    2004: 2 4* 0
    2005: 2 5*, 11 4* 0
    2006: 1 5* 5 4* 0
    2007: 10 4* 0
    2008: 1 5*, 2 4* 0
    2009: 5 4* 0
    2010: 8 4* 0
    2011: 11 4* 1
    2012: 6 4* 0
    2013: 5 4* 5
    2014: 4 4* 2

    What the past thirteen years show me is that 2013 was an anomoly/outlier with regards to IU’s recruiting of 4* athletes. Outliers are considered errors and are either factored out of the equation or their significance deminished. Factoring out Nebraska’s 05, 07 and 2011 recruiting classes, the trend line for both programs are almost identical. Both showing an increase.

    Keeping the outliers in still shows both programs trending up (Nebraska’s not as sharlply as IU’s). If Nebraska did not sign another 4* or above recruit and IU signed their historical average over this 13 year period (I had to round up to 1 as IU’s average was .62) it would still require until 2020 before IU passed Nebraska.

    So now you have to ask yourself what is more statistically feasible, Nebraska not signing at least one 4* or better player (They average 6.38 over this same 13 year period), or IU signing one or more 4* or above player each year for the next 6 years?

    What I can tell from this 13 year slice of historical data is that Nebraska signing 6 4* or above players (plus or minus 2) falls within their average as does IU signing 1 4* or above player.

    What program is more likely to make a coaching change if their team fails to make a bowl game win 9+ games/season, or not challenge for a conference title every year? Nine wins will get your seat hot in Lincoln. Nine wins in Bloominton and they will erect a statue and rename the football stadium in your honor.

  15. Here’s an interest quote from Steve Wiltfong about MSU and recruiting highly rated players. They may never have a high rated class simply because of not recruiting for stars but ability and need.

    “Michigan State, they’re never impacted by what other people are doing on the recruiting trail,” said Steve Wiltfong, national analyst for 247Sports.com. “They don’t offer four and five stars just because they’re four and five stars. They do their due diligence with their young men and make sure they fit what they want, on and off the field — they’re the best in the country at doing that…Honestly, the way Michigan State has played the last four or five years, there’s not a program that does a better job of evaluating guys that fit what they do, and then developing those guys.”

  16. Thanks spartan, that’s what I’m alluding to. It’s more important to actually get quality personnel who will help you win than it is to worry about star rankings.

    I’ll give your coach credit for finding these low rated recruits and then developing them into NFL caliber players. I don’t know if they would have had the same amount of success if they came to IU. These lowly rated recruits would have probably played like lowly rated recruits if they had come to IU. MSU’s coaching appears to be superior to that of IU’s.

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