Indiana among teams reportedly interested in Lee

Per multiple reports, Indiana has interest in transferring Temple center Anthony Lee, who is leaving the Owls after averaging 13.6 points and 8.6 rebounds this season. The 6-foot-9 Lee has one year of eligibility remaining, but he will graduate and therefore be able to play right away.

The Hoosiers will be in dire need of a big man if freshman center Noah Vonleh enters the NBA Draft as expected. Of course, many other teams could use a senior big man as well. Per Jeff Goodman of, Lee has already heard from Louisville, Ohio State, Florida, Florida State, Southern California, Miami, Pitt, NC State, Iowa State, Illinois, Marquette, Maryland, Iowa, Butler, Ole Miss, St Johns, Providence, Seton Hall,  and Arizona.


  1. I think we may have a solid chance at this post man. He is from Maryland(can anybody say Coach Kenny Johnson?)and graduated from West Oak Academy in Florida.

  2. We need somebody ,that’s for sure. Still not sold on Perea, however he is obviously improving. Jurkin is a non factor. Lee is a seasoned center, which we haven’t had in awhile. Thinking DJ White was our last 4 year center?

  3. He could play in big ten program…..and this could tie IU over for a year so IU could get recruiting of elite big guys 6’8 and 6’9″ and above corrected….IU needs 2 elite bigs not just one complimented by one or two really good bigs….and currently IU has only one elite and none really good bigs, but maybe one really good future big (Davis in a couple years of development)

  4. I’m very high on Devin Davis. Towards the end of the season he had a bit more playing time and looked very good to me. This kid will be able to hold his own very well against whomever he is ask to gaurd and I am convinced he is just getting started. This young man can flat out score too if just given the time on the court.He will make a lot of people surprised this coming season and his skills will earn him a starting role. Another player who I see making a argument for more playing time is Jeremy Hollowell. He had times where he looked very good this season. What I believe is his only drawback is his droughts where he seems to fade from the task at hand. But if he can learn to focus and be more consistent, he could be an awesome player.
    It is my belief that we will have a very good team next year with or without Noah Vonleh. With the addition of our outside shooters coming in and the super athletes we have now in Troy and Hanner, we look very good in my mind, for what that is worth.
    Troy Williams is one of the most exciting players we have had. I think he is another Victor in the making and I can’t wait to see him again next season.

    What these young men need to understand is that as a team working together they all can raise their abilities and along with that comes their draft stock raising, if that is what their goal is. I’m hoping next year they all come together and hang a banner for us. They owe it to themselves and for sure us fans who support them every game and every year. Go Hoosiers

  5. Haven’t had a chance to post since the season ended, but I guess this is as good a time as any to jump back in. What’s the scholarship situation, now? Gordon and Sheehey free up two. Fischer is another. Noah makes 3 1/2. We have three recruits coming in. Howard was a walk-on, right?I know these things tend to work themselves out, but wouldn’t we have a better shot with a guaranteed roster spot instead of speculation? So are we counting on either Noah or some unknown player to vacate that spot, or am I missing something? (Honest question, here. Not trying to be a rabble rouser.)

  6. Yes….These things work themselves out by pushing Capo, Roth, Patterson, Creek, and Abell off the team. It only barely works itself out this year because Crean finally got a taste of his own medicine with Fischer leaving the scene prematurely.

    I honestly don’t give a sh__t anymore. The sooner we have another pathetic season under Mr. Joke, the sooner we’ll have a real coach. All the above names(other than Roth) had to sit out a year because they were pushed into corners or told we no longer care. Everyone of those names would have given us better production than the garbage basketball we witnessed from Crean’s supposed better choices.

    Not watching IU in the tournament this year? I really don’t give a damn if we have the same fate for the next two seasons. Get the tweeting fraud out of town ASAP. Send Glass and his Chinese fireworks factory with him.

    Better hope your football savior starts showing improvement, Mr. Glass. Slathering the oily Crean with unwarranted contract extensions cost this university way more than they needed to pay. There was no legit mediocre college program that was ever going to have one ounce of interest in a coach all see as nothing but a bag of wind. You may have just landed two perpetual bottom dwellers in your lap.

  7. Harvard,

    Did Glass hire Crean, or was it the previous AD? If not, got to wonder what Glass would have decided. 20/20 hindsight of coarse.

  8. I’ve also never understood why coaches are signed for so long. Recruiting pipeline maybe, but I think university’s throw away so much money, over long term deals. Never made sense to me. Guess that’s why I’m tight with money, and not frivolous.

  9. A committee, with a powerful Indy lawyer serving as chairperson that had very close past dealings with Glass, hired Crean. Then, Crean(more or less)hired Glass insuring his lifetime job security. That’s the nutshell version. There’s also a bit “Jesuit” angle, but I doubt you care to hear that malarkey.

    It’s all in the family, Ben. Still don’t trust you. And you believe whatever suits your fancy. But in my opinion, the whole program is full of a bunch of crony thumpers all out to protect their own smug, unaccountable asses.

  10. Harvard, you’ve got to learn to stop bottling things up inside and holding back your true feelings! Don’t be afraid to express yourself; you’re among friends (written jokingly, not as sarcasm) While I don’t always agree with you, I give you high credit for your well-written comments .

  11. Or. When you write the same things over and over, you’re bound to say it good sooner or later.

  12. What big man would not want to come to IU? We will have two lottery picks the last two years in the post (Zeller and Vonleh). Secondly, we run a version of the Dribble Drive Motion Offense. At Indiana, we call it the Dribble, Dribble, Dribble, Run the Shot Clock down under 10, set a ball screen, and jack up a jumper with no post touches. Finally, imagine how many more games we would have won the last two years, if we would have used our big guys consistently.

  13. Seneca, #4,

    You’re a wise, patient, and calm philosopher, Seneca. I agree with you we will have a good team next year. Also, I believe we’ll be back in the NCAA Tournament playing at a highly respectable level.

    HfH, #8,

    You identified five players you think got pushed out. I don’t believe that’s true with all. In fact, I think Abell didn’t. Regretfully, with all of the heralded recruits coming in, he got scared that he wouldn’t get more playing time. So he left on his own accord.

    Though you didn’t identify Fischer–and rightfully so– as part of your five who got pushed out, I’d like to say a word about him. Fischer had a bad case of “homesickness.” He was overwhelmed with anxiety separation. Such problem could have been exacerbated too if his Mom and Dad were experiencing “homesickness” also. Why do I believe that? If you recall, when he got home, he expressed his joy and relief in being home 30 minutes from Marquette, his new school.

    And that brings me to this, HfH. While you believe these five players were pushed off the team, it gave Williams, Davis, and Robinson, plus others, far more playing time this year. Though that didn’t make you a happy camper at times, and others too, such game time helped them grow and develop at a faster rate than if they had sat on the bench most of the year.

    So,in 2014-15, these players will be better. They will be much more improved. And so will IU. They will make a more significant contribution to IU than if they had sat on the pine. And, as a result, you will be a more happy supporter of IU as Williams, Davis, and Robinson play a major role in taking us deep into the NCAA Tournament next year. Though I hate to see anyone leave the program, unless they have been a “bad apple” spoiling the team’s development, there is a positive to what you label as five players who were pushed out. And I hope you won’t overlook it.

  14. Seneca and Walt — I’m on your side. I was impressed w/ Devin Davis as early as the UConn game.He was not afraid to mix it up inside and he has a body you don’t want to mess with.It appeared to me that he had figured some things out at the end of the season and I was disappointed that he wasn’t used more vs. Illinois in the BTT. I have seen some compare him to Daryl Thomas — if he can become that type of player I would be happy.Next year’s game against SMU should be interesting, as CTC will have to match wits against one of the greatest coaching minds of all time, Larry Brown. For me it’s going to be a long 8 months looking forward to next season.

  15. The passion on IU basketball is gone. March is not a fun time of year anymore and we are stuck with clappy the clown for a long time thanks to glass.

  16. I would suggest your temper your optimism for next year with these observations: as far as Robinson,Williams,Davisand others getting better ? I have No confidence in CTC to accomplish that. Yogi has had 2 years with Crean running PG plus he was on World Univ. Games last summer….and still it was poor floor leadeership and as Hoosier in Ohio said ..dribble,dribble,dribble offense.As far as working things thru the post..CTC has shown he doesnt know what Post play is …even with Zeller last year and Noah this year…..not much went thru the center of the Syracuse Zone. What makes you think getting ANOTHER big man is going to change CTC’s way of thinking? Therefore I dont hold out much hope for improvement;based on the players he has “coached” over the past 4 years

  17. I don’t agree much with your criticism TJ concerning Crean, but I do agree he is lost when it comes to post play. I never watched much of Marquette, so I don’t know if it was an issue there as well. All you can do is regroup, lick your wounds, and try again.

  18. To say Hulls never got better from his Fr. year is stupid, to say Watford never got better from his Fr. year is stupid, to say Sheehey never got better is stupid and to say Vic never got better from his Fr. year is stupid. That is a whole lot of stupid speculating about next years Sophomores. You’ll get smarter by this time next season.

  19. HC, I concur with your comments in #23 entirely and like Geoff, I also got a chuckle from your last line. Excellent post. Obviously, some IU fans’ disappointment over how this season turned out and their disdain for Tom Crean has driven all rational thought and logic from their brains, if they were capable of either in the first place.

    Crean may have many faults as a coach, but to challenge his history of and ability to recruit and develop players who make enormous improvement under his guidance is really stupid. That history dates back before Crean arrived in Bloomington. People forget about a lightly recruited player out of Chicago named Dwayne Wade, how he lead his college team to the final four, was a lottery pick and rapidly became one of the elite players in the NBA. Who was the Marquette coach that recruited him, signed him, and allowed his enormous talent to blossom? And Wade was not the only player Crean guided to the NBA while at Marquette. And obviously, Crean’s ability to recruit and develop under-appreciated talent has continued at IU.

  20. Hoosier,there were times last year that Watford all but disappeared in games.Sheehey his “improved” abilities never were demonstrated til the last 4-5 games of the season(where is the senior leadership coming from next year?)Vic’s improvement was self motivated.and admittedly so by ALL concerned.Zeller’s improvement cant be measured because CTC never utilized the post position in his offensive schemes.Granted you cant teach anyone that doesnt have the will to want to improve BUT how much is self-improvement thru hard work and how much is coaching is up for interpretation.IF you dont or cant utilize players you recruit to the fullest extent,then I do question the coaching ability to improve players

  21. I read this morning that Ben Howland, former coach at UCLA, intends to coach college basketball again. For the first time in 30 years, Howland took a break from coaching this past year. He explained it as re-charging his batteries, and he says he may take an additional year off. In his mid-50’s, Howland believes he has “ten good years of coaching left in me.” He’s still getting paid his full salary from UCLA (I believe that was north of $3 million a year) and does some occasional TV commentary for extra cash, so he’s not hurting for money. He also said that he will take his time and pursue coaching jobs at schools “where I have a chance to be successful.” I think he’ll continue to have numerous offers to choose from over the next 12 months.

    As an aside, while he did not express any resentment toward Alford, he did make the comment that Alford inherited a program loaded with talent that made his first year at UCLA a relatively easy transition. Ironically, Howland’s record in his last year at UCLA is almost identical to Alford’s record during his first year there. The key difference being that UCLA was the 201/13 Outright PAC-12 Champion and lost in the PAC-12 Tournament, and this year, UCLA finished second in the PAC-12 but won the Conference Tournament.

    Imagine that, over ten years you produce the highest winning percentage of any coach in the last 43 years, your team wins the Conference Championship, and you get fired shortly thereafter. And people wonder why these coaches demand huge salaries to coach these teams? Talk about college fans and administrators living in the past and having unrealistic expectations! But don’t feel sorry for Howland, he’s living on the beach and getting paid millions of dollars a year for two more years to take an extended vacation. My guess is that his pride has made a full recovery and that he will coach again soon.

  22. TJ, please pay attention, as I will only offer this 1 time, free. By your own statement “Therefore I don’t hold out much hope for improvement, based on the players he has “coached” over the past 4 years”; displays a detested bias or flagrant BB ignorance or the extremes of both.
    Listed below is proof of your yet undecided condition:

    2010-11 12-20 W/L 3-15 B1G 11th place
    2011-12 27-9 11-7 5th
    2012-13 29-7 14-4 1st WON IT
    2013-14 17-15 7-11 8th
    Even this year with a Freshman heavy team the record was better than 3 and 4 years ago.

    Along the way in that 4 years the player development improved players to have (5) career 1000 point scorers and produced 3 lottery picks. Those things do not happen w/o a coaching staff pushing hell out of the talent they have recruited.

    By your own definition Coach Crean has improved IU’s players because you cannot elevate W/L records in the B1G w/o doing so.

    There is no doubt your next post will determine which extreme(s) it is you own.

  23. Clarion: 3-4 yrs ago would have been BZ( before Zeller) and how much “improvement” did Crean do for him versus Cody going home and playing against his older Brothers.Yogi’s shooting improvement was not from Creans coaching but from his own hard work….his decision making and running plays sure werent improved from Crean. When the YEAR LONG game after game turnover numbers remained the same from start to finish (16 to’s /game);I guess we can credit THAT to Crean’s coaching abilities. Execution of game plans,running offensive schemes(even though the players appear to be statues0all fall on Crean…those didnt improve so if the system doesnt improve how can you measure improvement of the “parts” of the system

  24. TJ – all you’re doing is throwing opinions out in a way that matches your agenda. There are no facts or evidence your falling back on.

    It’s completely arbitrary to say that in areas X, Y, and Z the improvement was because of the player and areas A, B, and C was because of the coaching staff. To be honest, the assistant coaches spend more individual time with the players than the head coach. They are the ones that rebound and work on the majority of skill development in these programs. Crean’s job is to create the environment for those players to improve more than anything else. That comes in different forms – motivating, adding facilities, placing an importance on time management, creating a culture where individual improvement is the expectation, etc…

    Your point about the system not improving just proves a lack of logic on your part. Of course the system was not going to improve from the last couple years to this year. We went from having experienced players to inexperienced players. I hate the offense they run, but that has nothing to do with the individual player development argument… Yogi didn’t have the options this year that he did last. The floor wasn’t spread as much this year as last. His decisions weren’t as plentiful or obvious this year as last.

    The only thing we can go on is history, and Crean’s teams improved each year for his first 5 years… Now we have pressed the refresh button with the mass departure of experienced talent. We’ll see this time next year if that trajectory begins again.

    I don’t know how it will all work out, but I do know you aren’t seeing things with any amount of clarity.

  25. I heard that some ardent OSU fans are so upset that the Buckeyes lost in the first round of the NCAA tournament to Dayton that they are demanding Thad Matta be fired. Forget about his .769 winning percentage as a head coach, his two final four appearances, his eight Conference Championships, that none of his teams have ever had a losing season, etc., some fans are saying today’s loss, their disappointing record this season, and the fact that he’s never won an NCAA Championship prove that he’s not the right coach for OSU’s storied basketball program. That’s reasonable, right? I mean, come on, OSU did win a National Championship back in the early sixties.

  26. I’m 2-0 so far with my predictions from back in Jan…not dancing and Noah is out, I’ll be 4-0 if Troy transfers and Yogi skedaddles. IU is in B1G trouble and has been since Crean sabotaged last season by considering it a success 2 wks before it was ever over.

  27. Fab5, don’t get hurt patting yourself on the back. Has there been an announcement about Noah within the last hour? If not, you’re really only 1-0 in your predictions so far.

    And that one prediction was really a bold one. Who would have thought that after losing their four best starters, two of which were NBA lottery picks, along with two key backups, IU would fail to make the “dance” this year? And who could have guessed that a phenomenally gifted 6’10” athlete would consider declaring for the draft after one year of college basketball? Hey, you should move to Vegas!

    I’m pretty sure you’re going to be wrong about Yogi and Troy. But who knows, even blind squirrels find acorns once in a while.

  28. Fab, you didn’t happen to read about how Troy has been personally recruiting Lee to transfer to IU. Quotes about how the program has been great for him and how much he loves the school.

  29. Never said it was a bold prediction, just a different prediction than what others at that time thought, I was called “wrong” for all 4 predictions at the time, and just pointing out that first 2 are correct so far.

  30. Right Geoff, it’s a great program if you want to come in and compete against Collin Hartman and Austin Etherington for playing time, it’s also a great program for missing the NIT.

    Geoff did you happen to read the quotes about IU missing the tourney and Noah Vonleh, your adopted and beloved son, leaving early even tho you once met him briefly and made huge assumptions about him after he looked you in the eye and shook your hand?

  31. Fab – there were lots of us who didn’t think the Hoosiers were making the tourney from about the turn of the calendar. None of the assumptions I made about Vonleh’s character have proven wrong, and I always qualified it as an educated opinion and that I could be wrong about him turning pro. It wasn’t just based on my interactions with Noah. Oh, and he still hasn’t made it official. But if he does, doesn’t that mean that Lee will be competing for playing time against Perea and Davis? While there is potential with those 2, they’re closer to Etherington and Hartman than Zeller and Watford.

  32. Geoff, …and to extend the Lee talk a little farther…everything I’ve read last night and this A.M. states at this point in time IU is in excellent position to have Lee’s services next season…

  33. Answer for what? Who said he was the answer? It’s simply good to have experienced, somewhat proven big men on your roster, especially if it’s a position you may be thin at next year.

  34. Exactly, with the scoring available next year an experienced big man does not have to be an answer.

  35. The next time I say to myself that Crean doesn’t know what he’s doing in a game, I’m going to have to think back to Oklahoma and Lon Krueger against North Dakota State. Oklahoma was unprepared, undisciplined, and poorly coached. I wish Krueger had stayed at Illinois.

  36. If he doesn’t come and you are sad you’ll be exactly like the fans who were sad when Evan chose IU instead of their team…..and we all know how big of a non deal that all ended up being. Not saying Lee is garbage but I won’t be sad if he chooses a better team for himself.

    Also Blackmon Jr is no Parker or Wiggins, he was 1-1 in IN HS BB sectionals, not a world beater.

  37. This is a waste of time so I’ll spend one more post on it and quit…

    No one is talking about being “sad” except you.

    No one said anything about “world beater” except you.

    The 2 most glaring holes on our team this year from a personnel standpoint were an off the ball shooter and quality front court depth. Bringing those two things in next year are a positive if it happens.

    Ok, you can carry on being a drama queen now Fab.

  38. Geoff, Today it is your turn to give me a chuckle. The “one more post” did it for me while remembering the Fab5 can’t count.

  39. Fab5 is obviously not convinced that acquiring talent(sometimes overrated talent based on judgments that don’t always translate to the same level of performance in college that appeared so conquerable at the high school level)…doesn’t necessarily equate into a well-coached team, or a team capable of deep runs because the talent has been moved from individualistic concentrations and growth into the unselfish and mission-motivated team growth realm.

    Simply because Crean has the eye for talent and a staff that can aide in developing a rising star to better his chances in getting to the next level, doesn’t guarantee anything in the complexities of team dynamics, settling into rotations that work, teaching five guys to be accountable for each other, and playing the game on the same page with hearts fully invested in maximizing team play/results.

    And from what I’ve seen over the last couple years with Crean leaves plenty of room for skepticism..We have witnessed a parting sea…We have witnessed a void of Crean’s abilities unveiled as the floor of such divided waters…polar opposites, if you will, with very little overlap..A man qualified as a recruiter/searcher/player developer…A man often glaringly inept, left confused and wondering, wildly hopping and gyrating while showing support for his team to hide the incompetence his own inability to find solutions when dissecting and answering the demands of a 40 minute game…forever absent the tools needed in attempts to be team developer(aka coach).

    There all great kids…And many of our Hoosiers show tons of promise…But what a waste of promise to never see a team go from cocoon to butterfly…Yes, they are Hoosiers..But how sad to never let them know the feeling of success as a team that can evolve into something for the memories when its the product of a great mind from the sideline…We watch the talent in only its individual moth-like form as they fly away into the bug-zapper of the dark and dreary NBA; never colorful enough in crimson and cream to be a team of real fancy and flight; nor any of our winter hardwood dreams for caterpillars with all the potential of Monarch butterfly wing spans ever becoming a summer’s day of sun at our Indiana to stay.

  40. “Because it’s Indiana”…we know what basketball can be…and cause itself to become.

  41. Just watch how well Mercer’s players move with and without the ball…What a thing of beauty compared to our stagnancy. They still have to work out the early jitters, but they are fun to watch…Five seniors starting for Mercer. First tournament appearance for Mercer since 1985.

    Go Mercer!!

  42. THE MADNESS. So long, Duke.

    Well, sports fans, you just witnessed what was once special in Indiana. You watched what Indiana once had in their high school tournament until some complete morons effed it up by bringing us class basketball. Basketball is a team game. Enjoy the NBA, Parker.

    Dear Tom Crean,
    Take your team into a film room and show them tapes of this game over and over and over…Unselfish, disciplined, crafty, gritty, basketball.

    And how fitting that a tiny little guard from Pike High School delivered many of the daggers down the stretch.

  43. Dear Crean- Don’t let your team watch the next game, however, when the cinderella slipper falls off and Little Guy from Pike goes 2-10 for 7 points and bows out of the tourney.

  44. My point is that waiting for a guy who comes from a 9-22 team and another who lost in sectional (and has never played a minute of college basketball) cannot plug the holes of the biggest issues within the Crean Program, those issues are: execution, chemistry, discipline, effort, desire, coaching, depth, stability. Adding a ‘big man’ and ‘shooting.’ Doesn’t matter unless the other items get addressed, there’s no proof those things will be addressed. Everyone who keeps boasting about the player development and the jump from a frosh-soph talent level is forgetting that Vic is an exception…not the rule. Do you think Stan’s HS coaches didn’t spend hours helping him shoot? Value the ball? What development did Stan make? Dude couldn’t shoot, dude couldn’t avoid turnovers. Same with Troy. Victor made a jump because he was a very different type of ball player. He was a late bloomer in the terms of learning all the basics about basketball…his words not mine. So he was able to make huge strides. Troy and Stan have been well coached all along and yet have maintained gigantic holes in their games. Will they improve? Lets believe so, lets hope so. But Lee isn’t better than the departed Vonleh and we don’t know if Blackmon is better than the departed Sheehey/Gordon…we do know all the concerns I mentioned have to be address and they have nothing to do with Lee or Blackmon.

  45. I wonder if any Duke fans are calling for Coach K to be fired because his team lost to Mercer in the first round of this year’s NCAA tournament? Using the same logic used by some of the Crean-haters that post on this site, this was a year of gross underachievement by Duke, in spite of having two top-ten and future NBA lottery picks on the roster. Hey, Duke’s underachievement this year trumps what some suggested was IU’s underachievement from last year by a wide margin! IU losing to Syracuse in last year’s Sweet 16 does not compare to the vaunted Duke, coached by the winningest coach in NCAA history, losing to Mercer in the first round this year.

  46. Podunker: I doubt it since Duke didnt make the NORMAL IU turn over amount of 16,nor did they get beat by having a game plan that featured 1 dribbler and 4 “statues”

  47. Coach K’s last 10 years and early exits are starting to look quite similar to Knight’s last decade….A deep run here and there, but burnout setting in.

    And maybe after a certain amount of time, the love for the job and the passion fades, the coach on the other center court has more fire and exudes more confidence, as the long and wide bell curve once on an elite plateau begins its downward day indicating that even the best become human.

  48. You actually said something I agree with so I’ll go back on my “one last post”…

    But first, Stan is still a freshman. Hard to make the soph jump when you aren’t yet a soph.

    Besides all the stupid points you’ve made I agree with your take that if the other system-based coaching problems don’t get resolved then adding pieces won’t guarantee anything, but it’s always better to have the pieces than not have the pieces.

  49. Anyone watch the OK State game? That’s an example of how bad reffing can absolutely ruin a game. I hate OSU. I like Gonzaga. I don’t even remember who I chose on my bracket (whoever it was I had them losing the next game to the 1 seed anyway). Point being I wasn’t looking at it with any bias… But I was tempted to yell at the TV out of principle alone.

    OSU got completely screwed… Not just by a bad call at the end of the game… It was several awful, awful, awful calls, the majority of which went against their best players, that heavily influenced the outcome.

    As much as I enjoy watching Smart throw his arms up in bewilderment, tonight I was actually feeling sorry for him… Well not really… But I felt sorry for his teammates.

  50. I was being facetious in #27, #31 and #56. For those of you suffering from a severe case of TCDS, my point was that a lot of otherwise accomplished coaches have disappointing seasons. Even the most accomplished coaches and talent laden team perform below their fans’ expectations from time to time.

    While my expectations for this season were lower than some, and I was very disappointed in this IU’s performance, and I acknowledge that Crean has some deficiencies as a coach, I am not ready to conclude that he’s a failure, or that he can’t coach. Given what he has done to bring IU basketball back to relevancy, given the talent he recruits, and after losing so much talent and experience after last year, I think he needs another year or two to show how good he can be with some stability. Lt’s not forget how many top ten teams Crean’s teams have beaten over the last three season! But if IU goes anywhere near 17 – 15 in the next two seasons, I’ll jump on the bandwagon and start calling for his termination. IU basketball is just too rich in tradition to tolerate too many more seasons like this one.

    So unless and until that happens, let’s stop with the campaign to try to convince others that “Crean can’t coach.” Time will tell if he’s going to remain as IU’s coach beyond the term of his current contract. We’ll know before April, 2016.

  51. I keep checking the headlines to see what I’m missing– people talking about Noah leaving as if he’s already declared for the draft. Most news reports say he’s probably going pro, but then Pinson was probably coming to IU and Duke was probably going to slaughter Mercer. Unless you’re positioning yourself for another tacky round of I-told-you-so, what’s the point in acting like you know something the rest of us don’t?

    Incidentally, that’s two first round exits to vastly inferior teams in the last three years for Duke. Ohio State had a pre-season All-American and–like Duke– spent several weeks in the top five. Two hugely disappointing finishes to what were once very promising seasons. I’m sure they’ll have their own special blend of kook fanatics calling for the guillotine, as well. Every proud program has it’s share of restless, head-hunting natives. It’s good to know we’re not alone.

  52. Last 10 yr comparison Coach K vs The General.

    Coach K:

    10 Sweet 16
    9 Sweet 16
    8 1st Rnd
    7 2nd Rnd
    6 Sweet 16
    5 National Championship
    4 Sweet 16
    3 1st Round
    2 Elite Eight
    1 1st Round

    Bobby (won’t include his last year, which he quit more than halfway through the season)

    10 1st Rnd
    9 2nd Rn
    8 2nd Rnd
    7 1st Rnd
    6 1st Round
    5 NIT
    4 2nd Round
    3 Sweet 16
    2 Missed NCAA & NIT
    1 1st Rnd

    Perfect comparison Harvey. If you take out the National Championship, Elite 8 and net 3 Sweet 16s, Coach K and Knight’s last decades are quite similar.

  53. Pretty sure I was poking fun at Stephen F Austin earlier this year. They just hit the shot of the tournament so far. Down four with 3.6 seconds to go? Still have to survive overtime, but…Wow. Disappointing that the Hoosiers are sitting at home, but it’s almost more enjoyable watching the March magic unfold when I don’t have to worry about who wins. At the very least it’s less stressful. Gotta love this time of year.

  54. Just some of the most unlikely things you’ll ever see happen on a court… Wild swings… Amazing shots… Cardinal sins… Relentless effort… Enormous onions… Big misses leading to additional drama…

    14 seconds left in OT… Another 12 seed winning… Who comes out on top?

  55. Oh my….. That guy might commit suicide tonight… Can’t ask for a more open look… Hope his teammates give him a huge hug and don’t let him out of their sights.

  56. Yep. Bananas.

    I’m not a huge fan of the cameraman focusing on the losing player for more than a few seconds– that hovering over him and zooming in while he’s breaking down on the floor wasn’t necessary– but it shows you how much it means to these kids. Nothing against VCU. Sometimes it’s just a shame someone has to lose. But man! What a game. What a tourney.

  57. Pop quiz. What’s the largest halftime deficit a #1 seed has had to overcome in the opening round. I don’t know the answer. It’s probably more than six. But could we be witnessing history in the making?

  58. So let’s cut the crap with “time to time.” Crean’s Final Four time was one time. He’s not in any more accomplished company with regard to Final Four flirtations than this tiny list of names that have coached one Final Four team.

    1 John Beilein 2013 Michigan
    1 Dick Bennett 2000 Wisconsin
    1 John Brady 2006 LSU
    1 Earl Brown 1944 Dartmouth
    1 Howard Cann 1945 NYU
    1 P. J. Carlesimo 1989 Seton Hall
    1 Clifford Carlson 1941 Pittsburgh
    1 Lou Carnesecca 1985 St. John’s
    1 Ben Carnevale 1946 North Carolina
    1 Everett Case 1950 NC State
    1 John Castellani 1958 Seattle
    1 Ozzie Cowles 1942 Dartmouth
    1 Frosty Cox 1942 Colorado
    1 Tom Crean 2003 Marquette
    1 Bobby Cremins 1990 Georgia Tech
    1 Roy Danforth 1975 Syracuse
    1 Chick Davies 1940 Duquesne
    1 Mike Davis 2002 Indiana
    1 Everett Dean 1942 Stanford
    1 Don Donoher 1967 Dayton
    1 Tippy Dye 1953 Washington
    1 Bob Feerick 1952 Santa Clara
    1 Bill Foster 1978 Duke
    1 Harold E. Foster 1941 Wisconsin
    1 Jack Friel 1941 Washington State
    1 Dave Gavitt 1973 Providence
    1 Bully Gilstrap 1943 Texas
    1 Jack Gray 1947 Texas
    1 Elmer Gross 1954 Penn State
    1 Dick Harp 1957 Kansas
    1 Jim Harrick 1995 UCLA
    1 Clem Haskins 1997* Minnesota
    1 Don Haskins 1966 UTEP
    1 Doc Hayes 1956 SMU
    1 Jud Heathcote 1979 Michigan State
    1 Paul Hewitt 2004 Georgia Tech
    1 Peck Hickman 1959 Louisville
    1 Howard Hobson 1939 Oregon
    1 Bill Hodges 1979 Indiana State
    1 George Ireland 1963 Loyola (Ill.)
    1 Maury John 1969 Drake
    1 George King 1969 Purdue
    1 Dana Kirk 1985* Memphis
    1 Jack Kraft 1971* Villanova
    1 Lon Kruger 1994 Florida
    1 Eugene Lambert 1945 Arkansas
    1 Jim Larranaga 2006 George Mason
    1 Bebe Lee 1955 Colorado
    1 Rick Majerus 1998 Utah
    1 Gregg Marshall 2013 Wichita State
    1 Rollie Massimino 1985 Villanova
    1 Bones McKinney 1962 Wake Forest
    1 Louis Menze 1944 Iowa State
    1 Mike Montgomery 1998 Stanford
    1 Jim O’Brien 1999* Ohio State
    1 Johnny Oldham 1971* Western Kentucky
    1 Johnny Orr 1976 Michigan
    1 Vadal Peterson 1944 Utah
    1 Digger Phelps 1978 Notre Dame
    1 Nibs Price 1946 California
    1 Harry Rabenhorst 1953 LSU
    1 Jack Ramsay 1961* Saint Joseph’s
    1 Elmer Ripley 1943 Georgetown
    1 Glen Rose 1941 Arkansas
    1 Lou Rossini 1960 NYU
    1 Kelvin Sampson 2002 Oklahoma
    1 Fred Schaus 1959 West Virginia
    1 Alex Severance 1939 Villanova
    1 Everett Shelton 1943 Wyoming
    1 Norm Sloan 1974 NC State
    1 Shaka Smart 2011 VCU
    1 Tubby Smith 1998 Kentucky
    1 Gary Thompson 1965 Wichita State
    1 John Thompson III 2007 Georgetown
    1 Billy Tubbs 1988 Oklahoma
    1 Forrest Twogood 1954 USC
    1 Jim Valvano 1983 NC State
    1 Butch van Breda Kolff 1965 Princeton
    1 Bruce Weber 2005 Illinois
    1 Bob Weinhauer 1979 Penn
    1 Larry Weise 1970 St. Bonaventure
    1 Joe Williams 1970 Jacksonville
    1 Richard Williams 1996 Mississippi State
    1 Jay Wright 2009 Villanova
    1 Tom Young 1976 Rutgers

    I believe that’s 87 names that have taken a team to 1 Final Four.

    There are 49 more names that have taken teams to 2 Final Fours.

    There are only 11 names that have taken teams to 5 or more Final Fours. Collectively, those eleven coaches have gone to 81 Final Fours. That, my Pollyanna friend, is accomplished and deserving of “time to time” patience that affords gratitude for stellar careers.

  59. And Punjab…You actually included Texas Tech rather than compare Knight’s last 10 years at IU to K’s last 10 at Duke?

    Would love to see what the coach that learned everything from Knight could do at Texas Tech.

    And don’t forget the old “inherited talent” argument we always hear of when people are hating on Alford(UCLA-Howland’s talent)or Davis(Bobby’ class of recruits that Davis took to a Final Four).

    Bobby’s drought was likely ready to end …The Clarion’s of the Hoosier world don’t believe Knight has his 4th banner with Jeffries and that squad of sharpshooters?

    To Coach K’s credit…He was a class act after the loss. He gave all the credit to Mercer and made no excuses…he threw none of his players under the bus and didn’t fall back on the “youth” excuse(Unlike someone we know).

  60. Ummm. Harvard, coach k talked about his youth both prior to, and after, the game as the determining factor. He gave plenty of credit to Mercer too.

  61. Very impressive, Harv. Quite an entertaining post and and an equally entertaining and informative list. You did misfire on one thing, though: I didn’t say anything about Bobby Knight.

  62. Nonetheless, he didn’t throw his players under the bus. And I thought he was a class act in giving credit to Mercer.

    And no matter the experience, it really counts for sh__t on the big stage and national attention of March Madness. I think the composure is a reflection of the coach and his leadership.

    Watch out for Kentucky.

  63. I think Coach K is an incredibly class act. Always has been as far as I can tell. I love that he coaches our National Teams so I can root for him without rooting for Duke.

    That being said, giving credit to the other team after a loss hardly distinguishes you from 97% of all coaches after a loss. Or after a win, for that matter. I believe Crean may have even done it once or twice.

  64. Agreed, Geoff. It’s just a matter of time before we see Lord of the Big Blue Nation giving more praise to known cheats and his ability to bring underachieving rent-a-players back up to playing at their natural talent level.

  65. BREAKING NEWS: from the Chesterton Tribune…

    Local blogging prospect Harvard, aka Lord of the…, has turned Establishment Blue! Once a regular ridiculer of comments giving any praise to the programs at other “blue blood” programs, or the coaches that lead them, “Harvard for Hillbillies”, a preported fan of the IU Hoosiers, has become what he once despised. It’s difficult to exactly document the transformation because the volume of his posts supersedes their importance, and most people stop reading after the first sentence, but for those who pay attention, a recent shift in attitude has been apparent. Stay tuned for more news in this developing story… It won’t come from us… All you need to do is read he comments section of The Hoosier Scoop.

  66. Beware of the blue lobster trap. Just look at Punjab gushing…”incredibly” class act. LOL. Pure Establishment…And that’s why they love Crean. They love the incompetence brought to IU so they can keep having wet dreams over Duke and all the other East Coast teams.

    I despise Duke…There is not a fan base I despise more.

    All their hopping around in the stands like bunny rabbits is because they actually had a coach intelligent enough to learn something from one of the best ever.

    When sitting next to Bobby, Coach K was possibly absorbing rather than catching X’s and O’s flies.

    And we all know why I’m complimenting UK…It is rather pathetic that Calipari at that bait and tackle shop gets his team of NBA campers to play with more unselfish focus and attention to details/fundamentals for the game than the bozo destroying the lore of Indiana. I don’t think Calipari is breaking anymore rules than most programs. His players are no less intelligent. His coaching his stronger than anything I’ve seen from Crean. I’m the furthest thing from the Establishment for knowing what the true objectives of people like Seahawk Tom and Geoff that mock Indiana and simply love to see incompetence at Indiana dig in deeper…and all while Geoff gets to see his backyard ballers get their IU stage. Pathetic.

    Let’s not forget who was slathering all over undefeated Kentucky two years ago when I said they were beatable….and predicted such result. Of course, the Establishment crowd on here didn’t want it to happen because our team had Hulls and Zeller and Elston and Roth… and much of the heart of the squad anchored with the savvy and heart of home state grit that could win despite Crean’s D+ coaching ability.

    Alford’s Bruins looking strong.

  67. At UCLA Howland was fired because he was not able to put to use the talent he himself recruited. Sound familiar? By more than one standard Indiana basketball is above UCLA basketball (see a summary posted here or the recent piece posted on Scoop) so by the same standard Crean (whose accomplishments at Indiana are not even a third of what Howland managed to achieve at UCLA) should have already been fired by now.

    Up next for UCLA is Stephen F Austin. The much anticipated duel between Steve Alford and Shaka Smart (who apparently refused the UCLA job before it was offered to Steve Alford) won’t happen, since Smart was not able to make it: UCLA clearly got the better deal.

  68. Yes, I know. Roth is from Illinois. We betrayed the name of Indiana by luring him and then treating him like he wasn’t worth a pot to piss in because Crean had another one of his next better pieces a puzzle he’ll never complete. Roth could fart more Indiana heart than anything Mr. Tom Establishment Because could find in his traveling suitcase of witch hunts, Joyce oils, and happenstance fortunes.

    Anti-Establishment is embodied in the greatest no-look pass in Hoosier history.

  69. Harv, you know I love you. There’s nobody on here I’d rather joust with. Your ability to key on a single word or phrase while ignoring the facts or sentiment of the entire rest of the post is impeccable. But it’s often laughable. It’s just a step above ridiculing for a typo or incorrect grammar, and misses the entire point.

    To say “watch out for Kentucky,” a preseason #1 is a bit silly. Their talent is unquestioned,. No rational person outside of the great Commonwealth thought they would go 40-0, but few thought they wouldn’t be in the mix for a banner. The greatest recruiting class of all time. But in a conference with three tournament teams, how did they end up with so many losses? It certainly wasn’t because Calipari must balance the need to keep aNBA-hopeful blue chip talent flowing in with the need to win now while he gets free recruiting advertisement by way of ESPN specials. (PT must be a bitch to come by if you actually bleed blue instead of use it as a springboard.) It doesn’t seem to hurt that he sends future All-America players like Wiltjer packing because it threatens the playing time of future recruits. And it’s not because he throws players like Ryan Harrow under the bus as the reason a collection of #1 ranked recruiting class lost in the first round of the NIT. To Robert Morris. No. It’s because a bunch of– what’s the term?– primma donnas finally figures out that their future paychecks may depend on how much they can play together as much as how they can impress NBA scouts individually.

    Or is it only at IU under Tom Crean where all that happens? Except for the great coaching at tournament time?

  70. Kartje (among others) has documented in the Orange County Register (where he works) Alford’s ability to use the talent recruited by Howland better than Howland himself — and that is the true mark of an elite coach.

    Meanwhile at Indiana we have Crean recruiting for six years and coming up either with yet another constipated season or (like last year) when his team was just plain labeled “the biggest underachiever in NCAA history”.

  71. Here’s a link to the Chesterton Tribune. It’s actually a very nicely put together paper(far better than the internet version)….It’s usually only about five or six full pages. I’m sure a home delivery subscription is pretty reasonable.

    My Dad could never fully leave his love for Chesterton… The Chesterton Tribune is no longer coming to his mailbox, but he loved his hometown. My Dad’s knees had gotten so bad in the last years his life(he had two complete knee replacements, but when his health began to decline it became the least of the worries)that he needed me to bring in his mail …He’d always want his Chesterton Tribune. I’d always plop it on his little maple kitchen table with the entire stacks of a few days worth that had been waiting out in the mailbox…I think he regretted giving up his life there. I should have got over to his house every day. Now I miss going out and doing that tiny errand for him. Now he’s resting next to Mom in the cold ground of Chesterton Cemetery. I guess my sister stopped the subscription.

    Please don’t make fun of Chesterton. My Dad was a good guy and you would have loved his personality, Geoff. He gave it his all in that little town and I let him down.

  72. Chesterton is the last place I would make fun of… It is the only town in America that has given us these 5 famous people:

    Jim Gaffigan, standup comedian and actor
    Ron Kittle, former Major League Baseball player
    Mitch McGary, University of Michigan basketball player
    Mickey Morandini, former Major League Baseball player
    Eddie Wineland, professional MMA fighter (Bantamweight)

    Next time I visit Indiana I’m going to make a point of having lunch in Chesterton. Hopefully either Ron Kittle (who I only really know because of All-Star Baseball) or Harvard will join me.

  73. now that buzz left Marquette I wonder how fischer is feeling about his transfer. hopefully crean will get “homesick” and return to Marquette where he can reunite with luke.

    just when I was about to give up on ever seeing the beauty of a college basketball team running a proper offense, last night my faith was restored. gentlemen, I give you…Virginia! Bennett has his team executing to perfection. weakside action. solid screens. double screens. baseline cutters curling to the ball with perfect footwork for quick releases. pick and pops. slipped screens when they should happen, based on how the screen is defended. no one posting up 20 feet from the basket. everyone here should treat themselves to some old time basketball and watch them play this sunday. it was like watching the hoosiers. not crean’s hoosiers. like gene Hackman’s hoosiers. beautiful.

    I recall Bennett was allegedly offered the iu job before crean and turned it down. what a travesty for us because we would love watching this team in iu uniforms. Virginia is going to be good for a long time. mark my words.

  74. Coachv – what a strange turn of events. Taking less money to go to a school with almost zero basketball tradition. I may actually visit another schools fan sites to see what the rumors are… Why was he so desperate to leave Marquette? Was there really no better opportunity to hold out another couple weeks for?

    On the plus side there’s no where to go but up at Va Tech… Last place in the ACC… He’s going to be a hero in a couple years when they top out at 10-8 (and then lose his luster when they plateau there).

  75. Geoff, you sure he is getting less money? fran fraschella (too lazy to look up spelling) says he had some probs with admin there.

    as long as you are here, a point of contention. you are fond of referring to the jump in development between the frosh and soph years. not always true. take perea, hollowell, and etherington. no big jump there. in fact, I would argue that hollowell has regressed. even more, I predict hollowell will never be any good. just doesn’t have the mind for it. my point is crean will not make players better. look at the poor shooting technique robinson has. think that will be fixed next year? no chance.

  76. You don’t think Matt Nover and Zack Novak are famous? Add in Mitch McGary…That’s three pretty decent ballers. Not bad for a town that hovered around 10,000 inhabitants for decades…Most high school graduating classes have rarely pushed much over 300 students. But Harv could have had them all beat. Could have…Would have…Should have. The varsity coach pleaded for my services…I declined.

    Wasn’t Matt Nover in Blue Chips?

    And Kittle is NOT from Chesterton. He’s from Dakich’s neck of the steel mills: west of Portage, “Region” area, strip malls, and smogvsille. I also reference Wikipedia too frequently..It is littered with inaccurate information.

    Not sure where Kittle played h.s. baseball, but it wasn’t at Chesterton. Chesterton has hardly grown in population in 40 years..I still find it amazing that their swim team is so successful at the state finals.

    Chesterton High School has also had solid teams and individual performers at the nationals in speech and debate. They also had some solid showings at state finals for Marching Band quite a few years back.

  77. I was born Ronald Dale Kittle on January 5, 1958 in Gary, Indiana. I am a former Major League Baseball player who played both as a left fielder and as a designated hitter. I was mostly known for my homerun power. From 1982 through 1991, I played for the Chicago White Sox (1982-86, 1989, 1991), New York Yankees (1986-87), Cleveland Indians (1988) and Baltimore Orioles (1990).

    I attended William A. Wirt high school. I was a 3-sport athlete in high school. I never thought I played one better than the next but one of my first life challenges came about during this time. I was told that I would never play baseball with glasses…I had to prove them wrong.

    In 1976 I signed with the L.A. Dodgers at a tryout camp in La Porte, IN at Ken Schrieber Field. I arrived at Vero Beach, Florida for my fist spring training and then went on to the Midwest League where in my first official game and first at bat, I hit a double and then scored on a single. After sliding across home plate, a late throw came in and the catcher landed on my neck as I was getting up. I crushed 3 vertebrae and broke my neck…this was the beginning of an injury plagued career.

    My Dad knew Ron Kittle…Or maybe I should say that Ron Kittle found my Dad. I know…That’s vague.

  78. Coachv – the article I read said he signed for $2.3M per year, and that he made over $3M last year at Marquette…

    Nothing is always true, but in general the biggest gains for players are made from their freshman to sophomore years. Everything goes from being new to being routine… From learning process to perfecting process… Better understanding of time management, diet, importance of the weight room and a full off-season with great facilities…

    As far as Crean’s ability to improve players, I’m not yet sold… But I am on the record as stating it’s the dead coaches job to create the environment for player development, but generally not the individual development itself. That’s generally the job of the player and the assistant coaches. Crean is the CEO of a corporation, not the sales manager or corporate trainer…

    I also think it’s very difficult to transform anyone shot at this time in their career. Let me be clearer on that, I think you can transform results, but not the form. Repetition is the most important aspect at this point. Even if it’s repetition of an imperfect process. Stan’s shot will get better for two reasons – comfort and practice. It may never look like Calbert Cheaney’s, but as he becomes more confident in his role, has more meaningful minutes on the court, and puts countless hours in Cook, his results will improve. Regardless, I think his biggest strengths will always be attacking the rim and defense. And those 2 things lend themselves to more consistency anyway.

  79. I’m an Indiana homer, love our history and I love Bobby Knight. However, what I hate more is terrible arguments. I hate them so much that I’m actually going to defend the man responsible for the school I hate more than any.

    Coach K success isn’t due to Knight. Yes, the man was influenced tremendously by him, but he made his own way. Knight had a lot of coaches that sat next to him on his bench that didn’t amount to anything (Mike Davis and Dan Dakich). His players had more success (Alford, Wittman, Woodson, future-Fifie), but players were horrendous (Isiah Thomas, Pat Knight).

    Teachers are important, but they can only take their students so far. The most successful teachers are those who, while teaching fundamentals, correcting and developing a work ethic, they empower their students/understudies to come into their own, think and create for themselves and find their own voice. Additionally, you can’t teach heart. You can provide a kid with a channel, but they have to find the passion and desire on their own. Once they do, it burns hotter than the friction burn from the sneakerprint that Cody Zeller left on Mitch McGary’s face twice last year.

  80. “But I am on the record as stating it’s the dead coaches..”

    Now that’s funny!…A Crean Freudian slip.

  81. You keep dreamin’, Double Down. McGary was not getting the minutes until very late in the season.

    I’m a huge Cody fan, but he doesn’t have the quickness, passing skills, and court vision of McGary. Nor does he possess the same level of instincts around the glass…Nor does he have the balance..And I’m not sure he has the same fire. But, yes, he had a couple marginally better games against a freshman that was overweight early in the season and just getting wet behind the ears in a game of five-on-five. You can likely find a game where Cody will one day outscore Tim Duncan at the end of his career. You can then claim more nonsense.

    Zeller will never have the success at the next level that you’re going to see from McGary. Not that I care much about the next level(whether that be the NBA or eventually playing in Europe, etc.).

  82. Just some food for thought, let’s play, name that coach (DO NOT GOOGLE).

    In this coach’s first two seasons, he went 13-17 and 15-16, then went to the NIT in his 3rd season. In his 4th season, he took his squad to a 22-9 record and they made it to the sweet 16.

    On the heels of this success, this coach started recruiting some of the top classes in the country. The next year, they won a conference championship, reached as high as #1 in the polls, then lost in the National Championship game.

    BUT, the next 4 seasons, this coach lost in either the 1st or 2nd round of the tournament. Every time, it was to a lower seeded team. Everyone came to the determination, that this coach was an excellent recruiter, but just couldn’t win the big game. His critics said he was an excellent recruiter who couldn’t make in game adjustments or develop talent.

    In the next two years, this coach would prove his skeptics wrong and won back-to-back National Championships.

    Who was this coach?

  83. but you have your assistants teach fundamentals the way you, as head coach, want them to be taught. as head coach I was plenty involved in individual instruction. why not be?

    as for robinson, he turns his body in the air and leads with the right shoulder way too much. crean will never fix that because he hasn’t fixed the poor technique of any iu players.

    now that we know Jordan hulls reads here, hopefully Stanford will as well and will take my advice. yeah, sure.

  84. I’m reminded of the classic barber shop scene in Coming to America with Harvard arguing for and providing justification for Zeller dominating Mitch McGary last year: twice! All with a 16 yr old Cuba Gooding sitting his chair.

    Harvard: You must be out your got-d-mn mind! Mitch McGary, the greatest college basketball player that ever lived. He was badder than Hakeem Olajuwon, he was badder than Patrick Ewing, and that new boy-what’s his name? Julius Randle?-looks like a bulldog; he was badder than him, too.

    Double Down: Vait a minute. Vat about Cody Zeller?

    Harvard: Oh, there they go. There they go, every time I start talkin’ ’bout basketball, a white man got to pull Cody Zeller out they ass. That’s their one, that’s their one. Cody Zeller! Cody Zeller! Let me tell you something, once and for all-Cody Zeller was good; but compared to Mitch McGary, Cody Zeller ain’t sh-t.

    Double Down: He beat Mitch McGary’s ass.

    Geoff: That’s right, he did whoop Mitch McGary’s ass.

    Harvard: Mitch McGary was 75 years old when they played.

    Geoff: I don’t know how old he was, but he got his ass whooped.

    Harvard: Mitch McGary had come out of college retirement to play Cody Zeller the minute he was 76 years old. Mitch McGary was always lying about his age. He lied about his age all the time. One time Frank Sinatra came in here and sat in this chair. I said Frank ‘you hang out with Mitch McGary, just between me and you, how old is Mitch McGary?’ You know what Frank told me, he said “Hey, Mitch McGary is 137 years old.” A hundred and thirty-seven years old!

    Punjab: Oh. Man, you lying, you ain’t never meet no Frank Sinatra.

    Harvard: [points to Double Down, Geoff and Punjan] Eff you! Eff you! And Eff you!

    Who’s next?! 🙂

  85. Double Down-

    This really has nothing to do with Mitch or Cody..I’m flattered, Double Down. You’ve got a lot of fight and finish with the emphatic dunk of the smiley face…

    Powerful stuff. I’m sure you put your sneakerprint onto anything Harvard’s ever accomplished. You’re likely spent much more time in classrooms and had your nose in many more books..And I’m sure I’ve heard you discuss all the worldliness you possess and international cities you’ve visited. But can you command an audience? Do you have the “it factor?” Can you melt a heart and dance with words as if they’re more than a one night stand at the Arrogance Ballroom? You struggle. You suffer. They all want to be Harvard. I understand.

  86. Harvey,

    I was never much of a student. I hate school, but loved college. As you can probably tell, I’m not very good with being told what to do or what’s good for me. I do immerse myself into things that interests me, though. If it doesn’t, I’d rather be poked in the eyes repeatedly with rusty pig-roasting skewers.

    But, I like one night stands. Those are great.

  87. Harvard…back in the day, Chesterton was also very, very ewll known for outstanding middle (800m/880y, 1600m/mile and 2 mile runners and cross-country teams. I seem to remember the name Tim Bagby as one unbeatable dude and I think he was a Chesterton product). Not sure but I think the coach was a young guy (back then) named James (Gary or Terry or Larry). Bagby was a stud and Chesterton was a power. Boy does his date me!

  88. Coachv – I’m not saying he isn’t involved, I’m just saying he delegates… There are too many players, too many other responsibilities, and too few hours. Of course he has a say in what gets worked on during individual sessions, but he isn’t necessarily the one doing the drilling.

    Double Down – how many back-to-back champs are there? Gotta be Donovan, right?

    Harvard – March 10th wasn’t exactly early in the season… It was less than 2 weeks before McGary started catching passes from Burke for uncontested lay-ups on the national stage. And what happened on March 10? Zeller went for 25 & 10, while getting a helpless McGary in foul trouble and holding him to 2 & 2 on 1-5 FG…. That’s “marginally” better, yes, a wide margin.

    In the first game on Feb 2, before Mitch was getting minutes, Zeller had 19 & 10 on 8-10 FG in a 8 point win. Mitch “only” played 28 minutes and had 10 & 7… I like your margins Harvard.

  89. Sorry Geoff, disagree with you completely on the role of technique/form. “Practice does not make perfect. You practice bad technique (…a million times)without correction and you end up with a perfectly bad shot. Education and correction make perfect”. Knight was a man possessed on this issue. There are reasons (laws) as in(the physics of fulcrum, balance,load)that determine the success and outcome of shooting…etc.

    For some that is instinctive, for many it has to be taught and practiced. That is the importance of coaching. For instance, the product in a bad shooter is likely having ‘practiced’ the mechanics badly so, so many times that it is now a player’s (bad) shooting form. This is where coaching steps in and has to force retooling a player, first by wiping out his/her muscle memory and then replacing with a new and correct muscle memory. In many ways that is what I read Coachv as saying the same thing quite often.

    I assume one’s own history of correction/education/analysis/outcomes is critical. What are the consequences of not having undergone this process in one’s own experience? Does its absence make it harder in the teaching/coaching of others? Just a question, but my assumption is that skill development involves one’s own education, analysis (including self analysis), repetition just as in any other human activity.

  90. Double Down, actually the greatest influence on Bob Knight and Coach K. as coaches they lived and absorbed together at West Point where they both developed a sense of the importance of discipline (including self-discipline), respect for knowledge (of the battle field/ terrain/game and detail) and leadership. Knight, as a 20-something head coach of a team that depended on ‘doing it right’ and Coach K watching Knight grow as a coach, from the stand point of a player.

  91. TT,

    Absolutely. In fact, I’d say that West Point probably influenced Mike more than Bobby. Mike had to go through West Point as a cadet where he learned the personal discipline that Knight could teach, but couldn’t quite grasp for himself. As much as I love The General, if he even had an ounce of the self control they instill at West Point, we and the world would have a totally different view of him.

    Let’s not forget another man at that time who headed up Army’s football program: Bill Parcels. The Big Tuna is probably my favorite coach of all time.

  92. No, you don’t disagree with me, because I completely agree with everything you said. I’m not contesting any of that. What I’m saying is that the habits, bad or good, have already been formed by the time they reach college. Some things are easier to reprogram than others such as decision-making. Form is a muscle memory thing and to completely retool it takes a LOT of time, with little guarantees. There are some players with really good form who are poor shooters and lots with mediocre form that are mediocre shooters and a few with terrible form (Reggie Miller) who are great shooters…

    What I’m saying is as a coach you have to pick your battles. Is it best to try to retool a player like Stan’s shot, with no guarantee that it will make any more difference than just giving him the keys to the gym and having him take 1000 shots a day with his current form? Do I use my time with him to battle other areas of improvement – ball-handling, pick-&-roll play, jab series, etc – and then base his role around his strengths?

    I’m not denying that individual development was a big priority/emphasis in Knight’s schedule or that he tried and was successful in retooling every player’s shot to look like Steve Alford’s…. But 2 things – Crean is clearly not Bobby Knight, and the schedules and rigors of the college head coach are slightly different now than they were 30 years ago when Knight was doing a great job coaching. At a program like IU there are just a lot of expectations on a head coach nowadays that have nothing to do with coaching that take huge chunks of time out of their schedules. In no way am I saying it’s better. I’m just saying its a reality – year-round national recruiting schedule, radio and TV commitments, fundraising, administrative duties…

    I just don’t think coaches these days recruit a guy like Stan and think “when I get him here I’m going to retool his shot.” They say, “Stan is great at X, Y, and Z, and we’ll add to that and build on that.” Then they go out and recruit a player like Blackmon hard the next year.

  93. Tsao-

    Larry James.. He was also the PE teacher…and possibly JV basketball. He would hang out at Goldsborough Gym while I shot hoops during lunchtime.

    You’re great at searching your stats, Geoff. You also fail to mention the relevant information when you’re dropping your fact turds. The February 2nd game was McGary’s first real immersion into anything approaching upper 20+ minute range. He had averaged 16 mpg in the previous 8 Big 10 contests before the game in Assembly Hall. Beilein wasn’t rushing him along..Even after the first IU game, he was involved very sporadically and only had one game over 30 minutes(vs. Wisconsin). In the four games previous to the season finale in Ann Arbor, he averaged a whopping 14.5 mpg.

    And then he took the NCAA tournament by storm while averaging over 30 minutes in six games. It’s really quite incredible.

  94. Yeah, Crean has real self-control. He chases a man at center court like a spastic nutbag. He takes all the positive energy of that game that should have been on the players and steals it for his own self-righteous outburst. A total a-hole on top of incompetence. I’ll take Knight. I’ll take the a-hole, envy of the Establishment world(because he proved that the East and West didn’t rule the college basketball world), with three banners that can coach.

  95. Well then don’t say silly things like “marginally better games” and I won’t have to drop turds on you.

    I didn’t realize we had a choice between Knight and Crean…

  96. Zack Irvin…? Isn’t he another Indiana kid? he looking tough of late.

    McGary, Irvin, Robinson, Albrecht, Lil’ Dakich….The Michigan Scurryin’ Hoosiers.

    Put those five Hoosierines with the key Indiana stars(Dawson and Harris) on MSU and you’ve got some talent almost as rich as Etherington and Hollowell.

  97. In terms of getting a guy into a consistent flow, I’m pretty sure no comparison was really relevant. Plus, they did not face each other as freshman. Aren’t we using “youth” excuse again for this year’s Hoosiers?

    McGary doesn’t get that excuse?

  98. I wasn’t talking about Crean, so don’t know why you’re bringing him up. I’d take Bobby in is prime over pretty much anyone, so no need to wedge him into the conversation.

    Your obsession with the East Coast is totally ridiculous. When Bobby came onto the scene, college hoops were dominated by UCLA, which was coached by state of Indiana/Purdue product: John Wooden. Indiana University carried the torch. From 1939 – 1984, there was only ONE national champion from the East Coast (Lasalle – 1954). I’m not counting the 1950 CCNY team since they were involved in that massive point shaving scandal.

    The 80’s was the first time the East Coast even came close to sniffing national relevance with Georgetown, St John’s and Villanova.

    Truth is, the East Coast has always been the underdog in college basketball. To call them the Establishment is laughable.

  99. Geoff, your words were…”Even if it’s repetition of an imperfect process. Stan’s shot will get better for two reasons – comfort and practice. It may never look like Calbert Cheaney’s, but as he becomes more confident in his role…”

    We do disagree. It is never OK to accept ‘a bad habit’ as a coach or teacher. That is the heart of your job and your professional responsibility for a sundry of reasons, including the impact of other players observing that ‘bad form’ is accepted.That has a lot to do with how it reflects in building a team identity and a team ethos that all players can believe in. If you did not believe in ‘dpong things the right way’, there was no point in staying to play with Knight. We lost several players who did not buy into that, and Indiana was better for it.

    That’s the difference om how we look at the game. Many [coaches] today are not searching for a kid’s character, his strength, intelligence about the game, ability to learn, willingness to submit himself to a team. Instead, we are recruiting the number of stars behind his name and a ‘self-perceived’ fame. How in the hell do you build a good team out of the sum of that equation. Answer, you don’t.

    This first round of the NCAA tournament validates the above statement.

  100. Let’s say I had the virility of Shawn Kemp and 5 of my 13 kids played for Michigan. I still wouldn’t root for them in a pick game against Vladimir Putin, Pol Pot, Osama Bin Laden, Hugo Chavez and Madonna.

  101. You can have all the excuses you want as long as you accurately depict in your posts what occurred. There was nothing about their match-ups that showed Zeller was only marginally better. Zeller was the best player on the court in both games and destroyed McGary head-to-head.

    That’s the truth – now feel free to qualify it however you’d like.

  102. Ok, there are some mild disagreements in there… But I don’t disagree with what you’re saying, I’m just saying the realities of what is possible are different now and don’t necessarily leave room for your idealism. Beyond that I doubt that Knight re-taught every guard how to shoot. Some guys I’m sure were recruited for reasons other than shooting. We are using the example of Stan like his form is Shawn Marion… It’s not. It’s not ideal, but it isn’t completely broken. By the way Shawn Marion isn’t a bad shooter… I wonder if it’s because he practiced his bad form a LOT?

    I definitely disagree that coaches only recruit the number of stars… That’s certainly not the case with Crean. In many cases he has offered players way ahead of any real ranking they’ve received.

  103. Oh, and there are a lot of reasons for the way the 1st round of the tournament has turned out. I’m not sure it validates your point any more than it would about 10 other points we could drum up.

  104. Crean doesn’t recruit based on stars..He recruits based on how many number of halo rings on the private internet scouting cloud known as

    His real talent is locating a rather unknown choir singer like Etherington to do all his “because” preaching, legwork, and thumping for him. When it comes to the “Movement” and landing any Hoosier savior to save his incompetent sorry ass, Austin was nothing less than a 5-halo Power Apostle. Throw in some Glass fireworks and some villain-chasing and you’ve got a regular Hee Haw meets Jim Bakher revival…with Crean’s clapping akin to Tammy Faye’s running/Hurryin’ mascara.

  105. Let’s talk about who we think will transfer….in order of probability I believe:

  106. I’m curious Harvard… And I don’t follow Twitter so I don’t know the answer… But do all the IU players continuously bathe themselves in the glory of The Lord? I don’t really hear it in press conferences or other sound bites. Do they constantly retweet Joyce Meyer quotes or is it just a Crean thing.

    Stan and Troy and Noah don’t strike me as the holier than thou type. I kinda picture them listening to 2Chainz, not Amy Grant… But maybe I’m wrong and they were recruited solely because they are most Christian than some other kid.

  107. Geoff
    Thursday, March 20, 2014 – 7:09 PM EDT

    Fab, you didn’t happen to read about how Troy has been personally recruiting Lee to transfer to IU. Quotes about how the program has been great for him and how much he loves the school.

    You didn’t get that information by stalking Twitter sites?

    In reference to your question..Don’t know..I do know that Marlin, Hulls, Cody, and Dipo were very public about being devout Christians/followers of Jesus…Zeller’s original Twitter page had glowing crosses all over it. And we’ve heard Doc Libby…with a Bible quote, casting stones, and prayer references in nearly everything she posts…So, yeah, I think it’s arguably a requirement to play for Crean(00:25 mark).

  108. Well, until you can prove that the guys I mentioned are “devout” then it is impossible to say its a “requirement” and I’ll just keep living in reality.

    And no, I got that information from reading articles that were linked to here on the Scoop. I’m not a liar Harvard, I don’t do twitter.

  109. No Harvard, I do not believe in a Lord… Further, it is has been proven beyond any type of doubt that the Christian religion is simply a copy of about 50 previous religions predating it by, in some cases, 1000’s of years. So if I were to follow a path, I would find it impossible to believe the bible because it is completely plagiarized. I have some Buddhist thought patterns, but I wouldn’t ever identify myself as following any organized religion. I thought we’d covered this before…

  110. Don’t get so defensive…I never remember seeing anything on Scoop where conversations between Troy and Lee were mentioned.

    I imagine many of these kids communicate through Twitter.

    I know you’re not a liar. You’re straight up honest and that’s what I’ve always felt.

  111. Just below our comments there are links to several other Hoosier fan sites, some of which wrote pieces on the Lee situation… I simply clicked the links and read the words.

  112. #134. Not really Geoff. However, I won’t go into debate. You seem like a good person, good head on your shoulders, always prepared. It’s hard sometimes for me to accept other walks of life, but working on it.

    Even Harvard has come around to me. Always seems to do the right thing in the end, which is cool with me. Carry on.

  113. You’re right… I guess it could just be literally hundreds of coincidences and not plagiarism.

    Never a good topic for debate when there is so much emotionally invested for 1 party. I don’t begrudge people for believing, as long as they don’t use it as an excuse to mistreat others. Certainly lots of good that can come from the lessons and discipline of religion.

    On another note, Syracuse cheerleaders are keepin it real… Somehow Boeheim lost the hot wife contest to Miller… That might be a bigger upset than if Dayton wins. Good for Archie!

  114. Wow! Dawson with 22!! in the first half…Where is he from?

    When the big stage lights come on, these NW Indiana ballers just become shrinking violets….Dawson taking the tournament by storm!

  115. Barkley with the line of the night…Just told Buzz Williams(sitting in with the analysts’ panel)if he would have waited just a couple more days that he could have had Boeheim’s or Krzyzewski’s job. Buzz gave a cute chuckle….

  116. He certainly could of waited his way into a more prestigious one… I guess better is in the eye of the beholder. Considering what Wake Forrest pays their football coach, I’m guessing he coulda got a sweet deal there.

  117. Grant you that he’s controversial figure…But what do you think of the General, Lee?

    Couldn’t resist.

  118. Geoff, I am thinking Buzz wanted to get out of the Big E more than just get out of Milwaukee. But his decision did take me by surprise too. I also remember years ago coachv maintaining adamantly Hulls and Creek each had such poor shooting form that neither could ever be offensive threats.

  119. Geoff-

    Harvard bring you present…..

    Archie Miller reminds me a bit of William Hung. Archie? Archie’s wife..? Syracuse cheerleaders..? Let the fantasy begin?

    And she bangs, she bangs
    Ooh baby
    When she moves, she moves

    Talk to me
    Tell me your name

  120. Geoff,

    could not disagree with you more on your theory that a college player is too old to learn how to shoot. I also knew high school coaches who thought it was too late. I’ve taught many players to shoot correctly and it is not a difficult process. jeez, it’s just shooting a ball with a few simple rules.

    I would teach correct form and have them shoot at the wall so they would not focus on making baskets, but rather on their technique. if technique went south during drills I would pull them out of the drill and say, “ball and a wall” and would not let them participate in shooting drills until I looked over and their technique looked good. I think it is important to practice shooting from 7-8 feet out and gradually work your way back. some players learn in five minutes and some in five weeks, but ALL learn. it is not players who cannot learn, it is coaches who lack the determination to insist that all details of the game are scrutinized and corrected. any coach who doesn’t believe that should find something else to do for a living. if I think wiping your ass a certain way is going to make you a better player, then by god you are going to wipe your ass the way I want you to wipe your ass or you can wipe it on the end of the bench.

    I have also taught tennis for years, including adults, and have changed many from continental grip forehand to the modern semi-western. no big deal if you know how to teach. never understood the idea that you are too old to learn something. any teacher who believes that is the problem.

    watch Virginia play today and look at the great shooting form of their players. you think they all came to Virginia that way? credit Bennett for that. and I think a lot of nba people will be surprised to learn reggie miller had terrible shooting technique.

  121. Not disagreeing with you, CoachV. Habits can be reformed at any age. But practice time is perhaps most precious in college. Coaches are limited on what/how long they can dedicate to certain drills. In Indiana’s case, one of the biggest legitimate complaints about this year’s team is that they didn’t play well together. The whole was less than the sum of the individual parts. Would we be better served to have key players working together, running plays, learning cuts, timing, and tendencies?Or is shooting balls against a wall to get better looking form a more judicious use of time?

    There’s no right or wrong answer. It’s a judgment call, and one the coaches have to make. If they envision Stan’s role as becoming a shooter rather than slasher and facilitator, then by all means take him out of the practice rotation and work with him more individually. Thinking back to the stories of PJ working on the most basic of fundamentals like catching a ball is fine when you’re not expected to be an immediate contributor. PJ’s buried on the bench and may end up being a hopeless project. We’ll see. But guys like Stan are heavily involved in the immediate success of the team. Only those involved will know how much time they could/should invest in certain aspects of his game in the limited time they’re allotted.

  122. Jerry West & Gail Goodrich ….Best shooters I’ve ever seen.

    I’ve always thought my form was pretty solid…coachv would probably find it not so. I changed my form between the 8th and 9th grade. It took many late night summer hours on the court to finally get the strength to go along with the changed release point….I wonder if my elbow kicks out too much..?

    coachv- Can’t you tell a ton by just watching the ball go through the net? Is back rotation super important in your methods. Have you heard of Virgil Sweet?

  123. Its a combination of both Geoff and CoachV. CoachV is right but Geoff is correct as well. The basketball being played all around the country is evidence that its a combo of both. If it was as simple as CoachV suggests then CoachV must assume all coaches are morons for not making these ‘simple’ improvements. However its obviously not that easy.

    I also think its degrading to great shooters to say that anyone can quickly pick it up. Not true. Jordy Hulls shot since day one, practiced since day 1. He’ll always be a better shooter than Oladipo(who picked it up late, shooting only 31% from 3 this yr). Unfair to guys like Hulls to say, “Stan can become Hulls if he works on the CoachV things”…no he won’t. Just like it makes me laugh every time people re-bring up the Jabbar sky hook. “Why don’t more players use this simple, easy, unguardable shot?” Everyone always asks….Well, obviously it wasn’t simple, just because Jabbar made it look effortless doesn’t mean it is.

    CoachV assuming that Troy and Stan have never had good coaches is also unfair. Why don’t you email Stan’s HS coach or Troy’s and ask them for their basic shooting guidelines and drills, ask them if they put Troy and Stan through those drills countless times.

    Todd Simon was Stan’s coach, now at unlv

    Steve Smith at Oak Hill was Troy’s

  124. Its about natural ability and mature adjustments. Stan’s always been good at driving, its obvious that it comes naturally and casually easy to him. However if he’s an intelligent individual, with any bit of competitive fire- he’ll realize how defenders played him this year…and he’ll want to change that, by not being god awful away from the rim.

    Troy isn’t a terrible shooter. I think he’ll be better from just the comfort/veteran/confidence piece that comes from being back at IU again next year as a stud soph.

  125. Wonder if we could get Johnny Dawkins? Wow…There are so many coaches ridiculously better than Crean….And so many that not only possess the skills to be great teachers of a TEAM game, but with such wonderful humble personalities that are not offensively loud, obnoxious, pious, or grandiose.

    How in the hell did Indiana get so lost to have a carnival booth charlatan for a coach?

  126. Kansa goes down!

    My order of preference to win the tourney is as follows: IU, then the rest of the Big a Ten, then a Cinderella team– preferably from Indiana. After that, so long as it’s Not UK, KU, Duke, UNC, or ‘Cuse I don’t really care who wins. Though UConn is close to joining that group. Three from that list are already gone. What a tourney!

  127. I think most people would agree that Ray Allen has a picture perfect shot. That what my eyes say and I’ve heard lots of experts say the same thing… Reggie’s shot looks nothing like Ray’s. Looks more like Cartwright’s than Ray’s.

    By the way, my guess is that it was practicing that god awful form over and over that got Cartwright to shoot 53% FG and 77% FT for his career… Both above average numbers. There’s more than one way to skin a cat.

    I have run many youth clinics and summer programs and taught BEEF to literally 1000’s of kids. I highly agree that a better form is going to yield better results more often. But I don’t “necessarily” agree that re-teaching form at the college level is the best use of time with every player.

  128. I want Wichita St. to go down…Might as well be at the hands of UK. Tired of hearing Barkley’s conspiracy theories that the NCAA purposefully set them up for failure.

    Plus, I want the ’76 Hoosier run to be preserved.

  129. I don’t know why you have to focus on either being a slasher or a shooter. why can’t you do both. as far as allocation of time for teaching, there is summer, and there is time after practice.

    and Geoff, I think cartwright shooting 80% of his shotsmfrom inside 10 feet and never being the focal point of a defense better explains his high shot percentage.

    as for the sky hook people occasionally advocate here, there are several reasons you won’t see it. takes to long to get off and defenses can easily help down on it to take it away. and if you got any good at it they certainly would. once you start the motion you can’t stop, cant fake or pass from it. if you are fouled on the shooting arm you can’t muscle through the foul and finish the shot. the power hook doesn’t come with any of those downsides and gets you to the same, nearly unblockable release point.

    fab, I have never mentioned troy’s coaches. and while I might not believe most coaches are morons, I do believe I am better than most of them.

  130. Most everyone is calling for Crean’s head and naming replacements for him. I say give the job to coachv and IU will never lose another game.

  131. ^5 to Harvard …lately I keep finding myself agreeing with your perspectives. I WILL use UK as a somewhat measuing “stick”.With all their freshmen;UK’s turnover rate dropped( ours stayed the same)their defense improved( ours was ‘bipolar’)the “effects of coaching can be seen in the results of those areas and UK had as many freshmen as IU. “Youthfulness” is a term that cant be used to seperate IU’s team from UK’s.I am willing to give Coach Crean benefit of the doubt BUT I would like to see improvements in TEAM PLAY,TEAM DEFENSE,and growth in Yogi’s PG abilities by the 4th game or drop him before BIG TEN play…..Name for consideration : Stew Robinson..played for RMK,assisted at Texas Tech with him;hes at UIC as assistant.for potential Asst Coach….(some will know the name) Sherron Wilkerson from Jeffersonville hes an asst coach..was Mr Basketball and a McD’s all-american….he can relate to the “egos” of the “starred players”

  132. such hostility Harvard. I believe you hurt my feeling. and it was my last one.

    I meant I never mentioned troy’s shooting, not his coach.

  133. My apologies, coachv.

    It’s been a tough month..Now my old yellow Labrador is in her last days. She’s lost over 15 pounds in the last month and I can’t get her to eat. I’ve tried everything..I’ve even cooked homemade chicken stock and mixed it with rice. I’m dreading taking her in to end her life. She’s attached at my hip and my heart. She is the sweetest dog you’d ever know. A real companion without a mean bone in her body.

    She used to run like wildfire climb the biggest hills in the Indiana dunes…Swim and dive into the waves and have the time of her life. Now she’s just sad and looks at me with sad eyes. Her vibrant spirit is caught by father time and she can’t understand. I’ve stuck needles in her shoulders for the last three years to treat diabetes that hit her hard. It’s cut her down and it’s punching me in the gut to see her withering away..She has no strength to barely jump up in her chair.

    My emotions haven’t been right lately…Have been hit by a lot lately and I don’t have a lot of ears to share it with…please forgive for the outburst.

  134. Thanks Geoff. T

    Don’t mean to be a ‘Debbie Downer’. Just really attached to the old girl and the heart is hurting…Sometimes the hurt turns to hostility. Not an excuse and sorry to all for being so narcissistic…I know that everyone has losses and bigger problems to deal with.

  135. Harvard….I saw a video a couple days ago of 2 elephants that hadnt seen each other in 25 yrs;both had been in a circus together.They intertwined trunks and walked together like old friends. I tell you this story ‘cuz in watching I realized that God puts animals on earth to remind us of our humanity.Im truly sorry that you and your faithful friend are going thru this process;but IM sure just as much as you would not leave her she wants you close by ….once again Im sorry for your loss

  136. Harvard- Lost a treasured pet myself last June. Ripped my heart out….just like losing any family member, and maybe harder in some weird way because of the animal’s innocence and relative lack of awareness of what’s happening to their own body. Hope you have some good time together in her twilight days.

  137. Sorry to hear this Harvard. When us humans fail,each other, at least our furry friends always lend an ear to listen. Take care.

  138. Hey Harv,

    My condolences. Man, one of the worst days I’ve had in my life was similar to your’s. I still haven’t had a dog since I had to put my girl down about 15 yrs ago.

    Nothing I say can help, but hopefully it makes you feel better to know that I feel ya. Maybe I can do one thing to help: I’ll let you make jokes about the East Coast Establishment with impunity for the rest of the week, ok? 😉

  139. Clarion and Geoff you two must be the second coming with all your knowledge of whats going on,he can,t coach so quit making excuses for him.

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