1. Very troubling when players are basically talking about lack of heart and lack of intensity. Is that what I’m getting from this ScoopTalk?

    If that’s the case, there should be some real concern with regard to leadership from the head man.

    Pretty much like Jeremy stated….If there’s this rather lackadaisical and flippant regard for the passion you have in Indiana, the game itself, or the jersey, then everything else remains beyond fixable and kaput.

    It appears many of our players just have way too high of regard for themselves. If you can’t be humbled by the game(or have a leader that can instill the values to improve and teach to persevere in leaving complacency behind), then you shouldn’t be wearing a cream and crimson uniform.

    And that’s what makes all of this terribly sad and insulting. It should be an honor to have a scholarship and an education completely paid for. Hell with all of the tradition of Indiana and all our history. At bare minimum, a kid should appreciate the opportunity enough to always give all-out effort. If arrogance is at the heart their gifts, then I just assume they play elsewhere. I’d rather be in last place every season with young men that are intelligent enough to understand what a disservice it is to not honor himself, a teammate, and the fans of Indiana when giving anything shy of the most.

    If I can’t have a coach that immediately changes that locker room culture, then he needs to go immediately. That, my Hoosier friends, should never be a work in progress.

  2. Here ya go Rico…i got AN answer for you. Tom Crean should be hung in effigy and the pole planted in Fred Glass’s front yard…..MAYBE that would wake up their sorry asses

  3. Jesus H Crimus, TJ. What the heck is wrong with you, man? I’m disappointed with the season and think Crean did a horrible coaching job, but there’s no room for that kind of crap.

    Get a grip.

  4. I kinda agree with HFH’s post but there is more to it. I know I will sound old school but I am tired of watching IU play like it’s an AAU Invitational. Players seem more concerned with showcasing their talent than maximizing their talent to achieve something meaningful, even if it is merely school pride or achieving their potential. I hear the players are motivated to constantly improve and workout in Cook Hall but where is the improvement? I like the idea of being the Hurrin’ Hoosiers, but dang, we can’t dribble, we can’t pass, we can’t defend or even read a defense….so let’s slow down, value each possession, protect the ball and just play. There is more than one way to play basketball. Obviously, IU hasn’t the right compliment of players or they don’t buy into what the coaching staff wants done. So many thoughts… IU looks tired. I thought last years team looked extremely tired this time of year. This squad is the same. I’m very disappointed. Forget all the five star one and dones. Recruit a bunch of three star guys that really want to be at IU and wear the candy stripes. We need passion…. Old school passion. Go IU. Can’t wait for the spring football game. Understand, I love IU football, but I shouldn’t be saying that this time of year. Go Hoosiers!

  5. Isn’t all that tiredness somehow related to how they feel about the coach?

    I’m tired of listening to his BLATHERING, and I’m not on the team……

  6. Harvard’s post to start this thread is what i’ve wanted to express all season, but i’m literacy challenged. We Hoosiers follow our local high school bball with as much enthusiasm as we do any other sports team, college or pro. Watching Bailey play HS was better than watching him at IU. We’ve been missing Hoosier played basketball for several years now. It’s time to cut our losses and put someone in place that understands and coaches what Harvard was talking about. Even if we did win a NC last year, this year and next year and the players are jumping as soon as the tournaments over, not even bothering to finish the semester, I would hate it. I would hate to be a UK fan. Imagine winning a NC, and can’t even remember who was on the team 3 yrs later. We can all name the starting lineups of the RMK NC teams almost 40 yrs later. We had a coaching legend at IU who couldn’t make it past the 2nd rd of the tournament his last 6 yrs there and I think the fan base grew intolerant ( myself included ). However, we were in the tournament his last 6 yrs and I always felt we had a chance. Here we are 14 yrs later, and a sweet sixteen appearance is a succesful season ( RMK predicted the 2001 team would win the NC, so i’m giving him credit ). It’s time to make the right hire at IU no matter the cost.

  7. Thanks guys, much appreciated for covering a dismal year.

    The lack of chemistry is apparent and has been since Dec. I am glad you heard it firsthand to confirm it. There are plenty of potential implications, such as Vonleh leaving now. If I were him, I would leave. He’s a 1st round pick and he didn’t get the ball this year. Talk about how he’s ill prepared or not (H4H) but he isn’t getting the ball and hasn’t developed like he should’ve. So why stay when the same cast of characters will be back next year? A ball hogging PG and a porous perimeter defense spells trouble for a player like Vonleh. And oh, did I mention a pathetic coach and staff?

  8. There were actually people on another site stating we would win the BTT. I predicted a 10 point Illinois win and sad to say I was right. When you look at our BTT history(horrible) and how we played all season the outcome was way too predictable. This season was a complete failure imo. There needs to be major changes before next season or it will be more of the same and even kool aid drinkers will have a hard time defending Crean

  9. Let me see, teams take on the personality of their coaches—why because the only thing a coach has is the power to determine who gets playing time when and where. Crean has shown with all the tools and assets that he is more interested in developing professional athletes, celebrating individuals. All the other stuff is secondary.

  10. AWinAZ – here are my problems with your last couple statements…

    1. Yogi was not a ball hog last year. Why was that? It isn’t inherent in his nature. He felt he had to do too much because of this team’s lack of experience and shooting. Next year everyone will be stronger, more experienced, and have a full summer in Cook under their belts. He’ll also have at least one dead-eye running mate. Things should be different next year based on those factors, so it’s reasonable to expect Yogi to settle somewhere in the middle of his frosh and soph selves.

    2. Defense has a lot to do with experience, strength, and communication. Young players do not have those things. We only returned 2 players that saw any significant time from the previous season. IF we only lose the seniors then we have about 7 guys returning next year that saw significant minutes. That’s a huge difference. Also, players almost without exception make their biggest physical gains in the off-season after their freshman year. Stan is already an above-average defender. Yogi has proven he can be very good when he concentrates on it, which based on my first point he should be able to do next year. Williams really is the one in need of a full off-season in the weight room and film room. He is athletic enough to be a difference maker on defense… don’t know if he’ll become that (right now he’s terrible), but the potential is there.

    3. We don’t know Vonleh’s feelings about the staff. What we do know is that he thought enough of them to choose IU over several blue-blood east coast schools. He went 1000 miles from home to play for Crean and Kenny. Despite our feelings on how he was used he was still named B1G FOY… which is a nice feather in his cap, and something I’m sure he feels good about. Just because we don’t see eye-to-eye with Crean doesn’t mean his staff isn’t working hard with Vonleh and has his complete respect and affection.

    If there’s one thing I clearly remember from my playing days its that where there’s talent there is hope. No matter what was happening in a season, or how last season went, if I looked around and saw talent beside me on the court then I always felt like we had a chance. It’s when you lack talent and suck that people look for any excuse to get out. IU has talent… players are young and have egos… I can almost guarantee that they believe that with the talent in that huddle they can win a lot of games next year, regardless of the coach. Maybe guys are vastly different than we were 15 years ago, but I rarely thought the outcomes of my college games were determined by our coach. I felt that we players were responsible for about 95% of wins and losses.

    I can see Vonleh leaving, but I just don’t see it being for the reasons you concluded with.

  11. From my perspective the 4 keys to IU BB success for 2014-15.

    Less forced and particularly unforced TO’s
    Team D
    Better Shooting – from layups to 3’s to give Yogi options
    More developing and improvement of HP

    Some intangibles are, a long bench w/o the wildly high # of substitutions per game(probably wishful thinking), 1 maybe 2 players have to transfer to better team chemistry, with or without NV rebounding must remain an IU forte, the lights have to be on 24/7 in Cook Hall.

    I liked the BTT uniforms, remove the sprinkles and make them permanent.

  12. The lineup of yogi, robinson, davis, williams and perea will = a deep run in the tournament next year regardless of the coach. If that five can gel before next year they will be very good, which means Crean will get another extention.

  13. Seriously Wiggy??? And the Cook Hall crusaders…..

    This team can’t stand each other so what makes you think they’ll be hanging out in Cook Hall 24-7? Won’t happen due to lack of TEAM (player) leadership.

    And Geoff, your opinions are just as (in)valid as mine.. Yogi shot more because someone told him to shoot more. Look at the stats…..kid shoots 121 more times than anybody else and has the worst FG% of any starter. Period. And I think we’d all agree that this team was best when it was driving, cutting, dishing to teammates. And as for Vonleh, I think the kid will be torn, but he still isn’t getting more than 5 – 6 shots a game and it isn’t because he ain’t open.

  14. One or both of Williams and Robinson will need to learn to shoot the 3. With that we’ll have Blackmon, (insert name from above), and Yogi being 3 pt threats. Plus Davis develops a mid-range jumper like David West from the Pacers. That’s the only hope for Vonleh because no team can cover 3 – 3pt threats and a big guy with pretty good moves & size inside. That gives us 22 or so wins in 2015.

    We need all of these to happen to be good next year.

  15. 3 senior scholarships-2 scholarships from players leaving( or left )and I think more to come. I said before :unhappy players,or unhappy environment,or both should be cause for transfers.The LAST thing Crean needs is an unhappy player carrying over into next year.I see the same offense as this year only in reverse, Yogi couldnt get the ball to Noah…what makes you think hes going to get the ball to someone less talented.More psss the ball around perimeter ,dribble ,dribble then force a shot.IF some of these kids quit on Crean would you want them BACK into that locker room….MAJOR PROBLEMS in Program and all Crean can do is give a sniveling “I need to see the films”,after 32 games and he STILL needs to see the films he is a film critic and not a coach.IF he cant tell during the game and the TO rate that the team hasnt learned a thing about taking care of the ball..perhaps his water bottle needs to be checked.It WILL be interesting HOW “Hoosier Hysteria” goes over next Oct

  16. Previous posts….hope for IU next year…..if this improves or that improves and he does this better and gets stronger = Vonleh leaves = bottom half of big ten and spirals downward = systematic and philosophy problem. That is how IU developed football tradition even though football may be getting ready to trend upward….maybe.

  17. Now that I think about it, Crean will screw it up. He’ll keep subbing his prized frosh recruits to get them their pt so they don’t get disgruntled and the team will never gel.

  18. no AWinAZ, my opinions are far more valid, because I don’t deal in hyperbole. Plus half of what I’m stating isn’t opinion… it’s fact.

    Statements like “this team can’t stand eachother” are what I’m talking about. You sound ridiculous. You have no idea if that’s true. There is no evidence to support it. It’s complete hyperbole. Even if there is some truth that they aren’t all best friends, it could never meet the standard of “can’t stand eachother”. It’s simply unrealistic.

    Of course the team was best when it was driving, cutting, and dishing… I’m not saying Yogi is the perfect PG, but I know that most confident competitors, which I have no doubt Yogi is, tend to want the ball when things get tight. Things were tight a lot this year, even when things were going well. Yogi looked around and saw a lot of unproven commodities, and it just so happened that he had the ball in his hands. Last year he had proven commodities. Next year he’ll have more experienced commodities and some additional talent.

    Who is “telling” him to shoot more? What is more? We certainly needed him to shoot more than last year, and we needed him to shoot less than this year… I’m pretty sure Yogi did what he thought gave this particular team the best chance to win. I’m not saying he was right, but I don’t think he was doing anything out of selfishness. I don’t see any reason to believe that if the team sticks together, has a good off-season (their first one together as a unit), and adds a couple shooters, that Yogi doesn’t have the awareness to adjust.

  19. In the Morning tag lines, Frank Iosla from New York Post says Mike Woodson is long shot to survive the new Knick Admin and if fired ; and says many IU boosters are wanting to buy out Crean and hire Woodson. Woodson though says hes not wanting to coach anymore….but the interesting thing for fans is that Boosters wanting to buy out Crean

  20. Geoff-

    Love your knowledge of the game. Love your passion. But with all due respect, you need to dial it down just a bit.

    If you believe you’re top coaching material, then put your money where your mouth is. Maine isn’t exactly the hotbed for basketball. If you want to keep falling back on your resume setting you apart, then you’re going to have to start divulging where you coached and at what level.

    You could be the Obi-Wan Kenobi of hoops shut-in of Maine…It’s just sorta weird. There’s studying a subject and there’s applied technique where you take the knowledge to the field and test your facts. You can study anywhere. If you want to apply what you believe makes your ability to understand the game superior to our worthless opinions, then I’d suggest you move to a place where basketball is synonymous with the lifeblood the its history and population….and is possibly played 12 months a year.

    Bring that big fat hoops Jedi Master brain to Indiana. Start at the high school level and teach on the floor those you love to analyze and dissect from the sideline.

    At the end of the day, dissection means nothing. I don’t care how well Oladipo plays in the NBA. That has absolutely nothing to do with how much he made our collective team operate unselfishly as a team. And it has absolutely nothing to do with how well Crean can turn talent into something that looks like basketball on the floor. Nor does your expertise and plethora of stats and research of various recruits and NBA hopefuls tell us anything of how a you can coach basketball in Maine with any more skill than someone can shovel snow in Florida….With all due respect, of course…..

  21. Well according to Ricky-Bobby – as long as you start anything “with all due respect” – you are allowed to say whatever you want. LOL.

    With all due respect – I’d like to punch CTC in the face when I watch selection Sunday this weekend. With all due respect.

  22. Was just watching the Florida/Missouri game. Game tied at halftime – Florida outscores Mizzou by 27 in the second half. Although some announcers are good and others not so much – I found something that was discussed not only so very true but another gut punch as far as the Hoosiers are concerned.

    In the first half Mizzou was taking advantage of some things to keep the game close (won’t expand as the particulars are not really important here).

    Here is paraphrased the commentators discussion. Great teams and great coaches know how to recognize what is going on during the course of a game. The thing that separates the great coaches from all the rest is that they do not need to go home and watch film – they do not need to go study a scouting report – etc.. They see and feel what is occurring while it’s happening and are smart enough to make the appropriate adjustments DURING the game to put their team in the best situation to be successful. They don’t need to watch the film of work on it the next day in practice when it’s too late. That’s what sets the great coaches apart from the average ones.

    I really couldn’t have put it better myself. I just thought with CTC pat answer of “I’ll have to watch the film” hanging in my ears 1000 times per season – that the way they phrased it was perfect.

    Could you imagine. A coach who sees things – makes appropriate adjustments – understands what he’s actually looking at during the game and knew exactly what to do to put his team in the best situations to be successful.

  23. Harvard, I wish you were specific every once in a while. I don’t think the totality of any one poster’s opinions or comments are worthless. I’m very clear in stating what does and what doesn’t make sense. Even TJ says a few things that make total sense. AWinAZ has valid points. t occasionally is right. You often create cohesive, impassioned diatribes… And when you do, I’m more than happy to say so, such as in Comments #1 and #2 above… But when you say ridiculous stuff I’m obviously going to point that out too.

    Maine is a 12 months basketball state. I bet our state hs tournament is as well-attended as yours since they went to a multi-class format. While I haven’t coached in Indiana, it’s my basketball roots. I learned to shoot hoops with Matt Painter out in the driveway. Rick Mount considered my grandfather like a second father as a child. My father is a basketball junkie who played side-by-side with Mount, then went to IU, and then taught me based on corn-field fundamentals. I consider it the primary reason I have fared well as a coach.

    Regardless of where anyone lives, you make the choice of whether or not you are a 12 months basketball person… It’s not even a choice for me. It’s my nature. So I play several times per week… Last week, from Sunday-Sunday, I played in 8 refereed games and about another 6 hours of pick-up. I’ve played ball on the east coast, the west coast, the northeast, the southwest, the southeast, and the Midwest… I’ve played in the HPER gym, at North Central HS, at Carmel HS, Lawrence North HS and other open gyms…. I’ve never had an issue holding my own. At this point Indiana basketball isn’t all that different from other places I’ve been – some people know how to play and some don’t… No matter where you go. You give a little nod to the guy who gets it, and he nods back. It can happen anywhere.

  24. CTC has 2 years provided that next year is no worse and hopefully marginally better because we’ll still be “a young team” and possibly one without a strong post player. But, in 2 years, that “we’re a young team” crap will hold as much credibility as a sieve holds water.

  25. I don’t have to imagine it. We once had it at Indiana. He’s taught dozens upon dozens of coaches across the land to identify DURING games what his own eyes had the ability to identify. But it can’t always be taught. Some can sit next to masters and still end up disasters(hint..hint..MSU).

    Sometimes you just either got it, or you don’t. I don’t think I would have it. I look out to the action on the floor and see one giant blur. And I don’t think having the “it factor” is forever. Pressure in the job can really change things. Life circumstances and all the other noise that is going on in your life can cause tunnel vision at the job and turn what was once mojo into mud.

    Success builds confidence…Confidence builds calm…Calm builds on the ability to simplify what was before the big blur. Coaching is no easy profession. It’s probably very easy to over-manage and corner yourself into thinking too much. We have the advantage of watching it all unfold from various camera angles and from high above the hardwood. It’s gotta be so much different to have the speed of the game within a few feet of all the action at eye level. It is a combination of experience and gut instincts…and a lot of calm.

    I’m not sure if Tom Crean possesses the calm for the game. He may be such the perfectionist that it all simply overwhelms.

  26. Harvard, have you stood next to Crean? He is not a large man… I have no idea how big 89 is, but if he’s average size then he’s a little bigger than CTC. However, I could see Crean pulling the sneaky spit-the-gum-out maneuver and when 89 looks down to see where he should scramble to pick it up and enshrine it, Crean energetically paces up one side of him and down the other. As long as there wasn’t a halftime in the fight I’m guessing Crean would win.

  27. Geoff…Geoff…Geoff. You da man. Swish. You bust my chops. You’re the Chris Farley of Hoosier Scoop.

    And I never played against any big names…But I got game. You’d have your hands full. I’m from the Land of Mitch. It’s where corn meets city…and where we don’t play so sluggish and shi**y.

  28. Not that it matters. But I’m 6’3″ and weigh 315. Should be 275 per my doctor (and wife) – but that’s another story. I blame last years sweet 16 debacle and the awful choice to throw a screen pass on the 3 yard line vs. Minnesota during football season as excuses for my weight gain. Although – I’ve weighed this much for a decade. Maybe I’ll blame the Mike Davis and Gerry Dinardo hires now that I think about it.

  29. I think Crean would unleash hell’s firestorm against IUGRAD89.

    I’d just whisper in his ear that the guy pounding his chest across from him is no other than the infamous Harvard for Hillbillies. Have you seen Jesus Uncrossed?

  30. Harvard and Dustin vs. Geoff and Jeremy in a game of 2-on-2…? I need a new bet.

    Man, that reminds me…I gotta order that Trojan gift certificate.
    Dustin- stay patient. I gotta save up $25.00…Give me a couple weeks. I’m gonna make good on it. The yoga pants for Andy may be more of a challenge…Keep your eyes out for a very suspicious package wrapped with paper featuring photos of Mitch McGary.

  31. when can we play? is there any way to raise the stakes? I have a sneaky suspicion that I’d get Gilloolied on the eve of the game…

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