Indiana loses 35-27 to Iowa, drops 5th in a row

The breakthrough performance Indiana has been searching for eluded the Hoosiers once again.

Against an Iowa program aiming for inclusion in the College Football Playoff field, Indiana struggled on third down and watched an inconsistent offensive performance send the Hoosiers to a fifth consecutive defeat in a 35-27 loss to the Hawkeyes before an announced crowd of 44,739 at Memorial Stadium.

Indiana, which trailed by four points at halftime, cut its deficit to one on a 28-yard field goal by Griffin Oakes early in the fourth quarter before Iowa used a pair of long drives to put the game out of reach.

It was an off-day for IU quarterback Nate Sudfeld, who completed 16 of his 37 passes for 180 yards, one touchdown and one interception. His counterpart, C.J. Beathard, made competitive plays in clutch moments and was a nuisance on third down. The Hawkeyes went 7-for-14 on third down, while facing an average distance of 7.1 yards. Beathard completed four of his seven third-down passes for an average completion of 10 yards.

Indiana received 174 rushing yards from Jordan Howard, who scored two touchdowns and averaged 7.9 yards per carry. The Hoosiers host Michigan next week in their final home game of the season.

Howard began the day by pounding Iowa’s front seven, which entered play ranked as the No. 5 rush defense in the nation with only 86 yards allowed per game. Before Saturday, Iowa had allowed only one rushing touchdown in its first eight games.

After Iowa took a 14-3 lead early in the second quarter, Howard answered with a pair of touchdowns, including a season-long 37-yard run at the 8:52 mark and a 29-yard run that gave the Hoosiers a 17-14 lead with four minutes remaining in the half.

On Iowa’s next possession, the Hawkeyes were helped across midfield when IU linebacker T.J. Simmons was disqualified for targeting receiver Tevaun Smith, who was falling toward the ground when Simmons’ helmet smacked into Smith’s. Nine plays later, Iowa capped the 3:35 drive with a seven-yard scramble by quarterback C.J. Beathard to go ahead 21-17.

Indiana opened the fourth quarter with Oakes’ 28-yard field goal, his second of the day, to make it a 21-20 game. But Iowa answered on the ensuing possession to go ahead by eight.

The scoring drive was spurred across midfield by a third-and-11 pass by Beathard, who rolled out and evaded pressured before firing over the middle to Matt VandeBerg for a 12-yard gain to the IU 44. LeShun Daniels capped the drive five plays later with a one-yard touchdown run. The Hawkeyes put the game away with six minutes to play, finishing an eight-play, 60-yard drive on a 10-yard scoring reception by fullback George Kittle.

Indiana added an 11-yard touchdown pass from Sudfeld to tight end Michael Cooper with 2:24 left in the game.

This story will be updated.

126 comments

  1. Dropped passes, no QB pressure, and only scoring a total of 10 points in the 4th quarter in the last four games is the problem.

    Not to mention, our HC not even trying to establish Howard in the second half. How many carries did he have? It is a joke that one of the Asst’s needs to tell him to wake up. He is a stud, give him the dang ball!

  2. The Iowa coaches were giving a lot of high fives after this. They were glad to get out with a win. We were very competitive. Fundamentals.

  3. ESPN commentators mentioned, at the start of the second half, (paraphrasing here) “about half of the Indiana crowd left the stadium at half time. You really have to feel sorry for Indiana’s players.” The game was close at half time! Do IU fans deserve a better football team? And as far as recruiting goes, the Hoosier Nation must take some responsibility for the coaching staff’s struggle to recruit better players. If you’re a top High School football player being recruited by IU, and half the fans leave the stadium at half time of a close game played against a top-ten ranked team, would you want to commit to play there?

  4. I hear what you are saying but It isn’t the fanbase that drops passes, and plays defense. These guys are getting to play D-1 football in a Power 5 conference, a paid education, and an opportunity to change a program. A lot of these players would not have that opportunity if not given by Indiana. They should be able to play even if all they have are cheerleaders, girlfriends and parents attending. Nobody comes to watch me work but I am expected to deliver. Sorry, not buying it.

  5. “Consistent losing and melting down is a good way to suck the life out of your fan base and it erodes any sense of progress.”
    UK sportswriter about UK’s football team.

    The UK guy gets it.

  6. Lost in Nate’s off day, was the fact that our receivers had the hands of a Clydesdale all day.

    All of them were terrible today.

    It was a beautifully clear day, at home, with no wind.

  7. The commentators hit it on the head, as have several on the Scoop. On big third down plays Iowa receivers made the big catches, the Hoosiers had drops.

    That was the difference between these two teams today.

  8. We weren’t expected to win this game. We had a shot and if not for some let downs we could’ve won. We have played with and almost beat 3 undefeated, top 10 teams. We are on the verge. The goal for the season is still with in reach.

  9. I don’t blame the fans one bit. We were ahead of the worst team in the big ten by 25 with about 17 mintues to go and about 75% of the Rutgers passing attack injured in street clothes. Chet I was quite unhappy with our drops today but its about ten times more deeper than that. Wilson gets out coached almost every big ten game. We score right before half but what does Iowa do when they score? Run the clock out like a smart team. What is our team 3rd and long philosophy?? I didn’t see one overload blitz on third and long with guys wide open right for the first down marker. There qb said after the game he was even hurt, yet he has all day in the pocket. I didn’t see Iowa kick any fgs even when it was 4th down. That’s because they knew touchdowns were needed to win the game. Were playing for moral victories. The future only gets worse no Jordan and Nate we are completely screwed. Remember the penn st game, how about last season? No more D 2 teams allowed and a 9 game conference? This was our season to win 7 games we play the 3 worse teams in the big ten. Changes need to be made tomorrow, glass and Wilson have to go to get any type of hope. Id rather us drop our football program these this coward mindset of moral victories. Hell Wilson couldn’t beat ball freaking state. I’ve been defending him for years because hes a good offensive mind but his game theory is too terrible to overcome.

  10. Double Down- I don’t know if you were at the game but it was quite windy mostly through the first half. When the sun set, the wind seemed to subside. Regardless, that wasn’t the reason passes were not caught. Sudfeld looked uncomfortable in the pocket, mainly because his receivers were not getting separation. And of course too many dropped balls.
    IU still lacks talent/depth to match up at most positions but I still feel things are slowly coming together. In previous seasons, Iowa may have rolled them up.

  11. Why give Iowa time to prepare for that crucial third down at the end of the first half by taking a time out? Was the defense out of position? All those types of situational timeouts seem to do is take away momentum from the defense. What would they even talk about in the huddle? Have to stop them guys! Someone explain that timeout to me please.

  12. In pervious seasons we have beat Iowa, its okay to be a tad optimistic but I get the feeling only delusional fans are left. Our decent offense is gonna be crap after this year. We lose about everything. A team with a good qb could of put up 50 easily. Guys were running wide open right down the middle of the field when we had 4 man rushes. This is year 5, we have 0 big ten wins if that’s acceptable year 5 we don’t deserve a damn program

  13. I think five years is a decent amount of time to prove your value as a football coach, and in my opinion, CKW hasn’t proven enough to stay on past this season. He’s 6-30 in the B1G over that time. How is that acceptable? For all you who say getting a new coach takes us back to ground zero, I say what’s wrong with that? What’s the difference in winning 0 or 1 or 2 league games a year for the next 3-4 years under Wilson, or under a new regime? Sure, the recruiting is better and the offense is prolific, but what does that matter if you’re going 2-7 in the conference and 4-7 overall every year? Scoring 40 points a game is great, but not if you’re giving up 48. It seems like every time we play a decent team, one of two things happens — we get bombed from the get-go, or we hang on for a half or three quarters before fading. It’s getting old. Real old.

  14. Games are won and lost of the line. Their offensive line dominated our defensive line. No sacks and few hurries. Our offensive line did well when we were running but less well when passing.

  15. The people that left the stadium at halftime are not the fan base.
    I too noticed all the pukin buzzards high 5’s at the end of the game. They like every other B1G team were thrilled with the win and in relief that IU’s break out did not occur against them. It has bee 24 years since I’ve noticed that response from playing IU. So we should respond by firing Wilson! I am damned happy AD Glass is smarter than that.

  16. @Hoosier Clarion — What does it matter if Iowa’s players were relieved to win? There’s very little logic there. There have been four other Big Ten teams “relieved” to win as well this year. And there have been 30 in four-plus years. I would rather the opponent show disappointment after a loss, but that just doesn’t happen. This program is going nowhere under this regime. The defense is last in the B1G again. Do we want to sit around for another three or four years and watch teams be thrilled with their wins over IU? … However, I don’t think Fred Glass will make a move, because doing so would be an admission that he hired the wrong guy — and I don’t think he likes to admit mistakes.

  17. Logic does elude some folks. They were relieved of the fact there was a real possibility of losing to a team which is building a foundation from nothing.

  18. Fan base is not our issue here, you lost them after the Rutgers game. Being more competitive is of no interest to the fan base. We have seen this play too many times. Defense has been and still is the main reason we are losing conference games. I do not see this being fixed next year and our Offensive talent will regress next year.
    I need to be convinced how we lose significant momentum by going after another HC next season. We have to build a Defense, replace a record setting QB, reduce non-conference games to 3, and add another conference game to our schedule.

  19. What foundation are we building? We’ve lost every Big Ten game this season! And barely beat two C-USA schools (the 14-point margin vs. FIU is deceiving — they were driving very late for a tying score when IU got a pick six to finish it). And barely beat an FCS team. And blew a 25-point lead on what would be — if it weren’t for us — the league’s worst team! In the four-plus years of this regime, we’ve averaged 1-plus conference wins a year. To what foundation are you referring?

  20. Clarion, I didn’t think it possible but you’ve truly outdone yourself. You’re now referencing the opposition’s HIGH FIVES as a sign of the burgeoning greatness of KW. You, sir, are a master troll. At 6-31 and not only no sign of progress but no hope for the future, I realize it’s tough to invent pro-KW rhetoric week after miserable week. But the 24-years-in-waiting high five’s is truly a stretch, even for you. Well done.

  21. A friend of mine has been working in the athletic department at IU since 1991. He’s mentioned to me several times that when he and his colleagues discuss whether or not to keep, let go, or extend a coach, they will tally up the number of opposing team high fives from the season, and that’s the only factor they look at. So Clarion is actually right on here, you guys. The good news for Coach Wilson: according to my friend, Iowa completed the most high fives in Bloomington by an opposing team since 1995.

  22. Exactly, Clarion. You said something completely based in reality and not at all insane. I sincerely agreed with you by providing a factual example from a real, credible source. And yet I bet there are still dozens of Scoopers doubting us. They’ll see soon, Clarion. We’re on the right side of history. Give me a high five, buddy.

  23. For the life of me, I cannot fathom how any objective evaluation of our FB program could justify the belief that we could beat Iowa, a vastly superior and under rated opponent. We are simply not at the level yet to beat this caliber of team. The good news is that 3 years ago, we could not even COMPETE with Iowa much less prevail. Yes, I know, we’ve beaten them in the past and yes I know we beat Mizzou last year etc. etc. However, we do not yet have the talent, depth or coaching to consistantly perform at this level. I actually thought we played Iowa tough. Someday, we will beat Iowa, but not today and probably not next season either. So, dont understand why everyone is so upset over a great game in which we competed. That said, if folks are still seething over the Rutgers loss, that I understand. That was inexcuseable. I think we have a decent shot at Purdue and I’m looking forward to that win. A five win season is not a disaster. Its not good. Its not what we want, but it is what we can do at this point. Had we beaten Rutgers, we would be looking at a bowl but that ddn’t happen so we just need to adjust our expectations and move on.

  24. I tape the game. I saw we lost again. So I erased it. I am and will always be a Hoosier fan.,just sick of losing! I am not happy with, we aren’t losing as bad a we use to therefore we are getting better. What a line of crap! Let face it the fan base is gone until we start winning BIG TEN GAMES.

  25. Iowa was completely winnable, the point spread was only 6 and i guarantee you that more money was on Iowa bc of their fan base making the real number closer to 4ish. The Rutgers set the program back years. A foundation of no wins is not a foundation at all. Purdue must have twice the standards of their football program Hazel is rumored to be on hot seat year 3 and hes actually won a big ten game this year. You have to look at this from a realistic stand point this was our year to win 7 or 8 games. Next year we will be lucky to win 4 if you see we are losing our entire offense. Time to give someone a chance that actually has experience winning as a head coach. Not some recycled loser like gerry dinardo, lynch or a clueless coordinator Cam, KW. Hep was turning the titanic around all ten iu fans left recall this hope! I wish we would of gotten mike leach, they are already bowl eligible and won 4 games in a situation as hopeless as ours. We need to call bo pelini and his cat first. So what if he hangs up maybe he will take the job out of spite vs Nebraska

  26. It’s time Wilson goes I mean he was giving a five yr.contract to turn this team around but he hasn’t no blow game this yr.either!!! I’m a Titans fan to an they fired wizzy on Monday cause he wasn’t getting the job done 3-20 in two season’s ain’t getting wins like he said!!! So if my Tennessee Titans can do it so can my Hoosiers!!!

  27. Iowa was winnable but not likely.
    Vegas knows their stuff.
    Not many understand what foundation means.
    Hazzell will be around next year as leaked by many last week in the media.
    IU loses no where near “our entire offense”.
    The jury will remain out on Hep’s IU success forever.
    Pelini would be considered “recycled” and his disposition is worse than DiNardo’s.
    Wilson has a 7 year contract.

  28. Hep, likable and did get win over Iowa. KW got win over Missouri. Extend KW contract 5:years. Double down!!! Show recruits you are on right track of building program from hardly nothing (this is the bottom program in history of big ten with very few winning seasons) and sell the great opportunity to play and be part of big ten program that is going to launch like a shooting rocket in near future. It is going to take coach longer than one contract cycle to get to where IU fb needs to be. KW is trying to turn a fb program for the better with really bad losing history not just up and down program in probably the best conference in the country. Stay the course and add 5 years.

  29. I see the boo birds have come out as I was hoping the past post showed they had given up. Yes there are things to be critical of with the football program but to be so unrealistic to think we are ready to beat 3 teams in the top 10 is ridiculous. This is not the old Big Ten where only two teams were powers especially in the Big Ten East. I was hoping for a win but knew it would take a complete game of few mistakes to win.

    I have given up trying to convince others IU is on the verge of beating top ten teams. They doubt next year’s offense but one thing this coaching staff has done is produce potent offenses. IU’s defense is improving so next year should let move up to the middle of the pack. For all the criticism of our pass defense just look at what we do to opponents without stud receivers; it is a problem for all defenses. As HC point out most don’t even know coach has a seven year contract.

  30. Sorry…I like Coach Wilson, but he and his staff just haven’t gotten the job done. Offense isn’t very creative, and its often Predictable. Defense has given up too many yds, too easily. It’s not just points..its Field position esp in the B1G where weather can factor in. Wilson just dosent seem to KNOW how to close out Games..they haven’t learned how to win. I think it’s been long enough, fwiw.

  31. vesuvius13 get real nobody said we would win all 3 games vs top ten. Stop making stuff up like Ben Carson. Our Defense is not improving at all if it was we would have at least ONE big ten win. We gave over 50 to Rutgers all while there only lethal offensive weapon wasn’t even playing. You know the ONLY other big ten team without a win (marylnad) did the right thing and fired there coach. There is nothing to lose when your coach is averaging 1 to peak 2 wins a year in conference. How are those moral victories going for the fan base? The bottom line is 6 big ten wins in 5 years, UNACCEPTABLE. Glass needs to go too as far as im concerned, failure across the board.

  32. I know that many posters have given me a rough time for being down on KW, but the results and stats clearly show that his team is not making progress at a rate which would give even the most optimistic fan hope. There is absolutely no reason that IU can not be more competitive, and it starts with having the right man for the job. KW may be a great guy but he is not the man for the job, and the longer the university waits the worse it will become. The possibility of a 4-8, 0-8 season is and should be flat out unacceptable to everyone!

  33. Actually vesuvius, most of us know CKW has a seven-year deal. But five years is enough of a sample size to see that this is going nowhere. We have no Big Ten wins so far this season, and will be lucky to get one. We had one last season. It’s time.

  34. Looks to me as if the tide has turned on support for Wilson. Oh, what to do, what to do? If it was any other power-conference football program, there would no longer be any debate about the status of the coach. That’s how low our standards have have dropped.

  35. Way to inject politics in a sports site Donald T. I am not saying Coach Wilson is the ultimate answer but that things have been getting better in many ways and not in competing against major football powers. Tell me what coach would be expected to beat top ten teams when they are at Kansas or some other downtrodden program. There are many things I would do differently as a coach but I still say Coach deserve the full length of his contract. People have been talking about getting coaches like Cary that has 3 losses this year or Fuentes at Memphis who just got hammered by Navy 45-10. There is never a sure shot coach as there are too many factors involved with coaching success. Many think coach can come in a make a sudden change pick traditionally good football schools as examples but IU is not that school.

    I question the use of the hurry up offense because of the defensive pressure it causes and IU hasn’t had a good enough defense so far. Coach has the time to build that defense with his new DC over the next two years. If they develop that defense to go with the offense then he will continue as the IU football coach if not then the people wanting the change will get a change. Just understand a change may not be any better. For now I will continue to support the coaching staff and players as that is what real fans do. Critics find fault, easy in this situation, instead of the good that is happening.

    One final point, Iowa ‘fans’ were calling for a new coach at the end of last year. Their starting QB was transferring and the wins weren’t up to par. This year a new QB and a 9-0 start has the fans supporting the coach and team again.

  36. I really feel sorry for IU’s students. If you’re a senior, IU has never had a good football team since you arrived in Bloomington. Hell, if you’re finishing your masters after getting your undergrad from IU, you’ve never reason to celebrate during the fall. I enjoyed IU’s first bowl game win (over BYU) while on campus. My daughter enjoyed the Hep/Lynch team that went to a bowl. But tens of thousands of recent and soon-to-be alumni have no idea what fun and excitement can be had during the fall while enjoying a competitive football team.

  37. If 5-7 with 1 Big Ten win was enough to get Bill Lynch fired, it shouldn’t be good enough to keep KW. Six wins or a new coach. Indiana also lost in 2010 to #15 Iowa, 13-18. Competitive loses weren’t good enough then and they shouldn’t be good enough now. Half a decade of trying is long enough. Six wins or a new coach.

  38. If you could read I already gave you a perfect example. Mike leach at Washington state, James Franklin at vandy, UNC guy (who smartly stole our best offensive coordinator) all schools just as hard to win at done in less time than 5 years . Man you have the dumbest logic I’ve seen since the high five troller! So we should not make any change because it might not be for the better? Yeah because it can get worse than ZERO wins in the big ten. Again for the second im really puzzled at if you can read but no one said we “should” beat top ten teams. We play the worst three teams in the big ten and lost to one of them at home as a td favorite, look at the facts not blind optimism. 6-31 year 5 NO Div 1 program but us would accept that. Rutgers is ready to fire there coach and he actually gone bowling, so has Maryland but they actually give a damn if they win. If you think we are getting better you dont know a damn thing about football to be honest..

  39. I’ve had it with the “moral victories,” “best players were hurt for some games,” and “IU was only a couple of plays away from this or that win.” You posters know who you are! I can no longer ignore the reality: actual losses, all teams have players knocked out for parts (or all) of the season, and IU was only a couple of plays away from several more losses.

    Whoever wrote that the tide of opinion is turning on Wilson has his ear to the ground. I have yet to say he should be canned. Yet. KW has to beat Mary and Purdoo-doo or he’s kaput. Even pulling off an upset of Meatchicken should not save him: after 5 years of KW it’s not unreasonable to judge IUFB by a standard of whether IU is beating the beatable, not pulling off an upset every couple of years.

    I thought that KW was a good hire at the time, but really, what could we actually have expected from a former Big 8/12 offensive coordinator who’d never been a head coach except at the micro level? Taking over a doormat program, no less? Did we actually expect to win the Big Ten in the new IU coach’s 4th year or something?

    Nah, that would be N’western a quarter of a century ago. Gary Barnett had been the OC at Colorado for ten years when NU hired him as HC for the ’92 season. NU won back-to-back titles in ’95 and ’96. And NU was a doormat, make no mistake about it. Most recent B1G title was ’36 before Barnett got there (Ara Parseghian managed to go .500 for nine years, but who can forget John Pont getting promoted to AD after going 12-43 in the seventies, NCAA record set for losses in a row in the eighties, etc.). That battleship got turned around pretty fast!

  40. Stop with the drama! We lost to the better team. That’s football. The fact of the matter is we are competing with teams that have a chance to play for the national championship. The obvious problem with the fan base is some are too ignorant to recognize improvement. The breakthrough all of us so desperately want could happen next week. Just support the team, the coach and the cause and have some fun! The season is not lost.

  41. Rutgers has a chance to play for the national championship? Penn State has a chance to play for the national championship? And yes, I recognize improvement. We’ve improved from one B1G win last year to 0 this year.

  42. Our fan support is poor but I also get it…win and they will come and stay. 3:30 start times may hurt a bit as well with out of town people and older alumni not wanting to drive home in the dark. No excuse students don’t come and stay for game. IMO earlier start time and more emphasis on tailgating post game might help…winning cures all. We have had perfect weather for most games this year so I don’t get it…and to the people on the alumni side that can’t stand up on third down and complain that people are standing in front of you…why do you even go to games if you can’t stand up and cheer your team?

    Finally, 4-5 record is a bummer but we are so much better and so close to competing at a high level. Extend Wilson’s contract a couple years and come out and support this team like we did for the Ohio State game each time we play…otherwise stay home and complain there.

  43. After 5 year extension if KW is 10 and 70 in big ten it is time for coaching change. Option 2 would be Temple coach. However, long-term commitment is needed in KW situation and that means extension now to boost recruiting. A big problem for IU who won close in weak non conference schedule is that big ten games involve ranked opponents except Penn, Rut, Mary, and PU. IU should be able to win 3 or 4 of them and that is a big problem.

  44. Some Other Possible Coaches:

    P.J. Fleck- was youngest coach to take over a d1 program in 2013. Took a traditionally bad Western Michigan team from 1-11 to 8-5 and currently 6-3 (losses include Mich State and Ohio State). He’s built a team by out recruiting the competition and pulling in top recruits from Midwestern states including INDIANA. Players love playing for him and he’s known for his charisma. Currently making only $800k

    Tom Herman- former Offensive Coordinator at Ohio State under Urban Meyer. Has Houston undefeated at 9-0. Also has top 50 recruiting class for 2016 with 2 four star recruits. (Indiana ranks 76th with no four star recruits)

    Justin Fuente- Has taken a bad Memphis team from 4-8 in 2012 to 10-3 last year and is currently 8-1. A former Arena League QB, he’s know for innovative offense and developing QB’s. Signature win this year against Ole Miss.

  45. If you give KW a couple of years in an extension for recruiting, give the extension without a buyout. If he’s this bad again next year, you have to cut him lose and try for an upgrade.

  46. Seriously, t? … You’re willing to blow 10 years on this guy, who barely averages one Big Ten win a season?

  47. A serious issue in the development of this program is managing expectations. Where is it written that you can turn around a program that is moribund as ours in 5 years? Comparing this rebuild to a Colorado or Northwestern is absurd. IU is generally considered the least appealing environment in the FBS save New Mexico State. CKW walked into a situation that most coaches would have run from. There were no positives: no talent, no depth, no coaching, no strength and conditioning, no facilities, no fans, no tradition, no institutional support, no recruiting process and no money. I am not aware of any similarly toxic situation. Shortcomings notwithstanding, CKW has managed somehow to turn around a lot of this. Five years later we have some talent, some depth, better coaching, enhanced support, significantly better recruiting and conditioning and some emerging tradition. is any of this at a B1G level yet…of course not. Will it ever get there? I hope so but who knows. I believe that all that can be done is being done and I believe that if we continue this course, we will get some B1G wins.

  48. Just sayin’

    I was at Lowe’s outside of Seattle yesterday and another customer noticed my IU jacket. Friendly exchanges were made and as he left the store he said, “IU not just a basketball school anymore.”

    People not associated with IU are taking notice. I agree with t, 5 years now.

  49. KW is trying to turn around IU fb history (again with exception; handful of seasons and a small handful at that) not just an up and down program in arguably the best conference in the country even though non conference schedule is weak.

  50. At 49, when hired by Fred Glass, how many times do you think KW was passed over? The replacement needs to have at least 3 straight years of winning at a 70% clip regardless of level including division 2. This provides a solid recent trend with recruiting, coaching and succeeding as well as a solid core if assistants. Must be no older than 40. It is little more than wishful thinking to bank on a position coach to head up an entire program, especially in a top 5 conference. It’s done successfully….once in a while, but rarely. Jim Tressel was at YSU, Urban went to Utah from BG, Tiller from Wyoming, I think Bill Mallory was at NIU.

  51. For those who want a new coach please visualize anyone you wish as coach last Saturday who has lured 15 four and five star recruits on a campus visit to decide where they will take their talents. Against a team ranked in the top ten you are one point behind in the fourth quarter with a good chance to win and these 15 recruits look at only vast empty spaces with about 15 thousand fans still there and hear only “go hawks go”. How many do you think are going to choose IU? For about 60 years I have watched IU sports with mostly disappointing football results (with only Coach Mallory the exception) and seen 10 coaches come and go after failing to change the program. All of those 10 coaches had the same problem – 100 years of poor institutional support, 100 years of losing, one of the smallest stadiums in the big ten, and one of the worst fan bases in the conference if not the country. Four of our losses have been to teams with a combined record of 32-4 and three ranked in the top 15 in the country and the one to Rutgers. As a fan I have my angry moments with Coach Wilson during a game but he needs to finish out this contract with an immediate two years added and take the next two years no matter what. In two years he will have been given seven years and if he is fired it will send a better message to any candidate he will be given a fair shot. I don’t expect much agreement with this position but it is what I think is the course we need to continue.

  52. My years have caught up with me as I can no longer spell my name correctly. I do not know a Mr. Walkerg but wish him well wherever he is.

  53. iufan23 wrote, “IU is generally considered the least appealing environment in the FBS save New Mexico State.” That statement sounds like justification, as most statements that include “generally considered” are. How is such a thing measured or quantified? At best it is an intuitive argument used to support excuses for failure. For decades, it was “generally considered” that creating an incandescent light bulb was impossible. Then Thomas Edison did it. Einstein said that “common sense was nothing but the accumulation of prejudices acquired by the age of 18.” As a Hoosier fan since 1966, I am acutely aware of IU’s sad history in football. But it has, on occasion, and for periods of time, been rectified. It can be rectified again. But for the sake of argument, let’s say that statement is completely true. Why would extending the tenure of a coach who has yet to prove he can lead a team to a winning season make IU’s environment any better? If Wilson had a different history, the argument justifying extending his tenure might make sense. But he’s never lead a football team to a winning record. Why would it not be better for IU to try to change that “environment” by first, changing leadership and hiring a person who has proven he can transform a losing program into a winning program? Assuming the statement is true, then change is clearly required. Big change, with a clear departure from the past, is the obvious strategy. Doing more of the same, and repeating the same failed tactics (hiring and/or retaining an unproven coach) is simply foolish. “Stay the course” is a worthy slogan when you’re headed in the right direction. If you’re going backwards or in circles, “stay the course” is a dumb strategy. But the statement is not true. There is nothing inherently wrong with the “environment” at Indiana University, or Bloomington, that strong and competent leadership, vision and a little more money can not correct and/or transform. The first step in changing the culture/environment of an underperforming organization is to change its leadership. Other universities, far inferior to IU, have done it before. If universities inferior to IU can do it, there is no reason why a great university can’t do it too. Duke football is doing it now! Wilson may be the right leader. He may deserve more time. But let’s not allow what is “generally considered” to stop us from making changes that can improve IU’s success.

  54. The debate really just boils down to the question, “has Wilson, having coached IU for five seasons, had enough time to turn IU football around?” Those who think five years is enough time say “yes,” and tend to want him replaced. Those who believe IU football was in such a sorry state when Wilson arrived, or those who think changing coaches would set the program back, tend to say “no,” and believe he deserves more time. As of today, I’m in the “if he wins six this season, give Wilson a contract extension” camp. But I also believe that if Wilson does not win six this season, then its time to replace him. He can still do it. IU can beat Maryland and Purdue. I don’t even care about IU going to a bowl game this season. I just want to avoid another losing season and give the program some momentum.

  55. Every coach, no matter if he’s the Indiana coach or not, is under pressure to win games. It is the entire point of the job. That premise is like hear a color guy saying, “They’ll win the game if they score more than the other team.”

    So, with that absolutely obvious criteria, Wilson has delivered mixed results. There are arguments to be made both ways on what to do about it. But, regardless of my personal feelings, I don’t think Wilson will get bounced even if he comes up short of a bowl game this year. All the long soliloquies about how they should have hired someone different 5 years ago is irrelevant to what is happening now. Once Lynch’s replacement was hired, barring anything catastrophic (like NCAA sanctions), that coach was going to be given a longer leash on Ws & Ls than any other coach in the nation. This coach’s task was Herculean, as he needed to build a foundation that has never been built at Indiana (even during Mallory’s years). In this day an age of massive Nike/Under Armor/Adidas contracts, it is an even tougher job. And it involves the entire Athletic Dept, not just the HC.

    I’m a super frustrated fan. I ripped out the last of the 7 hairs on my head after that Rutgers game. It is really easy to come to a comments section and just vent and think that replacing the Head Coach with someone better is going to solve these problems. However, it is not so simple.

    As fans we are so worn out. We wear our Crimson to games and get out-cheered by the opposing team’s fans in our own place. We have nationally telecast games with announcers wondering why there are thousands of people OUTSIDE the stadium, versus in it. We are exhausted watching games just waiting for the other shoe to drop so we can type the words “Same ‘ole Indiana” until the next game. Rinse, repeat. As proud fans of our institution, being the plankton of the football food chain was old ten years ago.

    Wilson was the guy picked for that job. He’s been far from perfect, but things are changing. There is a major risk in firing him; of going right back to where we were 5 years ago. Any talent we do have will transfer right out: who wants to be the next senior class to go through the pain of two-a-days and playing in the B1G East knowing they’ll be fodder for the NEXT rebuilding process.

    Additionally, when we go on a coaching search, coaching candidates can be uber skeptical that they won’t be thrown under the bus when things inevitably get bumpy along the way. I don’t care how much money you throw at someone, being left alone on the island as it is getting shelled is not a place that any head coach wants to be.

    Wilson will get another year.

  56. If Wilson has “earned” 2,3-5 more years, then the fans have earned the right to have him on a short leash. Give him no buy out money. If next year is just like the last five (which has already been pointed out was worse than the 5 previous years), Wilson has to go. You got a guy with a NFL pedigree and a proven record as a head coach and recruiter at Western Michigan (A historically bad football school). They start a cornerback and running back that IU recruited heavily- both from the state of Indiana! Those kids could have stayed in state and played for IU but chose to play for a MAC school. He is winning recruits despite having to fight Michigan, Michigan State and Notre Dame all within 100 miles. IU has an incredible stadium and one of the best weight rooms anywhere in the country. For those saying the facilities aren’t up to par have never taken the tour. IU also lowered their recruiting standards for football players to allow for more talented kids. 1 winning season out of 5 was what we got before KW and it should be the minimum we expect now. Otherwise, give PJ Fleck the same contract you would write to Wilson and you have a proven recruiter and head coach who already has ties to the best Midwest recruits. Let Wilson move on to what he does best– be an OC for a team with enough defensive #’s to handle all the added plays his offense makes the defense have to play.

  57. DD, good and thoughtful post. But you made the comment, “things are changing.” I am sincerely interested to read what things about IU football you think are changing? I don’ think many people see the changes that you’re seeing. Maybe some subtle things are changing under Wilson, but is that enough? Are the changes that you recognize enough to make IU a winner?

    You also think that a change of coaches would cause massive desertion from the football team. Sure, IU would lose some players (we do every year, regardless of coaching changes), but I doubt the cupboards would be empty. And who knows, maybe the right new coach would replace most of the transfers with better players within a year or two. Michigan made headlines this year when a lot of players transferred after Harbough was hired. But those defections have obviously not devastated Michigan Football. I’ll bet dimes to dollars that within his first three seasons, Michigan will be playing for the Big Ten Championship. The simple truth is, winners attract talent and other winners. If Wilson can close out this 2015 season with two more wins, he deserves more time because in part, he’ll be able to attract better talent necessary to win. If not, he’s going to find it far more difficult to maintain the current level of talent.

  58. Michigan is not really a good comparison. They got a coach who was one of the best NFL coaches (1 SB, 2 NFC Championships games), the illustrious tradition of Michigan and their current revenue stream put them in a place where “rebuilding” isn’t even close to having the same variables.

    Winners attracting talent is obvious. Indiana isn’t getting a guy like Harbaugh to coach here EVER.

    To answer your question(s)? You’ve already pointed to it. Recruiting is better. We have better talent than we’ve had in 20 years. That talent, unfortunately this year, is extremely young. So, what kills a team competing against a division that has three teams in the top #15, is depth. Indiana is getting more talented, but we aren’t very deep. It takes time to recruit depth. And that talent is being developed.

    We also are playing better football than we have in the past. While we aren’t winning games, we aren’t getting blown out so badly that the game is over in the 2nd quarter like so many teams I’ve watched in the past 20 years. The humiliation Indiana teams would experience playing comparable teams like OSU, Michigan St and Iowa was guaranteed.

    But, I am fully aware that this is only part of the picture. We’ve lost some terrible games that we should have won. And there is definitely some finger pointing at the coaching staff that is reasonable. It is reasonable to question their job status as a result of not winning those games.

    I’m open to speculation as to what a poor showing for the rest of the year will do to future recruiting. But, the season isn’t over yet. Like I said, I’m not advocating, I’m looking at the evidence in comparison with the alternative and I believe that it would take an epic collapse of this season for him to lose his job. You and I aren’t Fred Glass, McRobbie and the IU Trustees. They are the ones who will ultimately make that decision and, as I’ve laid out in my last two posts, I think CKW will get at least another year even if he falls short of a bowl this year.

    And, falling short of a bowl, to me, is a huge bummer.

  59. Donald T, let’s match up what we know about football. I have coached in three 4A Indiana state championships winning two -once as DC and once as a HC. The HC job I took a team that never had been to state and went there 2 times in 4 years winning once and state runner up the first time as HC.

    One thing I do know is taking over bad teams and trying to turn them around and it isn’t as easy as you think. My second HC job was with very good athletes and my record was very good.

    You seem to only know wins and losses, I understand as I am frustrated with the losses too. Every team in the Big Ten East is a good or great team right now so it is a very difficult job to win games when your roster isn’t filled out right now. If the school or whoever had done a better job getting Patrick eligible we would have a dynamic receiver that would have made a big difference this year. I am out of this discussion for now please avoid attacking others on this site.

  60. I should have ended the last post this way:

    And, while falling short of a bowl, to me, is a huge bummer, it won’t be enough to push Indiana’s leadership to make another head coaching change that will inevitably destroy the current foundations that are good in a way that other programs don’t have to deal with. Indiana Football’s position is just too delicate right now to make a change. We don’t have the luxuries that other programs have to change coaches when goals aren’t optimally being met.

    But, next year is a different story.

  61. With two years still left on Wilson contact. I dont see the AD firing him. I would think next year could be a different story. It really comes down to are we getting better. I am one of those that says yes we are, but the wins arent there to back it up. The wins have got

  62. How has KW changed the culture of losing? One can count the number of quality wins he has accumulated in five years on one hand, his defense remains the worst in the conference, and both students and alumni are tired of watching his team self-destruct game after game. The guy has failed to meet even the lowest level of success. God help us if he’s our best bet.

  63. Other [Iowa] fans from opposing team are better than our’s.

    Iowa has 3 great wins- at Wisconsin, at Northwestern and at Indiana. I’m not sure which is the most impressive, but I know you guys are extremely tough. I am leaning towards this one. Not sure politically how you feel about Wilson but from what I have seen he has you guys going in the right direction.

    another Iowa fan

    It’s gotta be frustrating
    but you guys have a good team. Like Kyle said, your O-line is great, and Sudfeld a weapon. Good luck, you will win again this season, Michigan will be tough, but you’ll beat Maryland and Purdue.

    Other fans [I could list more] can see what an improvement our team is making but our fans can’t.

  64. Its pretty obvious this team needs both Sudfeld and Howard to be competitive. Sudfeld graduates and Howard could very well go pro. If that happens, we are in rebuilding mode. If they don’t win 6 games, KW’s ability to still sell the program as up and coming is going to be a really tough sell. He really needs the 6 wins to keep the program moving forward. Otherwise, you loose both the fans and the ability to recruit.

  65. DD, good posts. Thanks for the response. I do believe recruiting has gotten better, at least on the offensive side of the ball. I also believe conditioning has gotten better. But what does it matter to say Wilson has recruited better talent than his immediate predecessors if he can’t win more games than his predecessors did with lessor talent? It may be a distinction without a difference. And producing the same amount of wins with better talent might actually be an indictment of his coaching ability.

    And I’m not suggesting IU could ever hire a coach like Harbough. I agree, it ain’t gonna happen, at least not in my lifetime. My point was, Harbough represents an example of the difference a good coach can make in a very short amount of time. With the right coach, it does not take years for a program to be turned around. And even if that coach suffers some transfers, as Harbough has this year, he can still produce significant improvement in short order while upgrading the talent in the next recruiting class. The next coach IU hires, whether that be next year or ten years from now, may never elevate IU to the level where Harbaugh leads Michigan, but he could possibly exceed the success Mallory achieved at IU.

  66. Juan (post #45): “Competing” with teams that have a chance at nat’l. title? Ever cross your mind that maybe contenders such as OSU look at IU as a breather in their schedules and don’t take IUFB seriously until the 4th quarter; then they flip the switch and it’s lights out for old IU? I suggest, however, that a good measure of KW’s work is not how IUFB “competes” against the top dogs but whether it can hold its own with the rest of the pack. If my metaphor is too obscure, try this: Who cares about hanging tough with the good teams when IUFB can’t even beat conference bottom feeders?

    Iufan23 (#52): Depends on what you mean by “turn around.” I don’t think anyone expected Wilson to take IU to the natl. championship (or even conf. championship) in five years, or even ten. But in Sept. people like me were thinking 7 or 8 wins as possible this year- run the pre-conf. table and beat a few beatables such as RU. KW needs to beat the beatables left on the schedule to keep his job. Five years into his conract Wilson needs to BEAT THE FREAKIN’ TEAMS THAT SHOULD BE BEATEN! Or at least beat some of them! As far as I’m concerned, a potential upset v. Michigan is irrelevant. Beating Meatchicken but still losing to either Mary or Purdoo-doo should still be the kiss of death for KW.

    DD: Yes, IU is the Augean stables of college football (#62) but some of us can’t help but wonder whether our hero has even found the shovel. But the decision to fire KW is so fraught because unlike other programs that have reasonable choices for a replacement, IU has slim pickin’s on account of its woeful history/tradition/environment/pay scale/fan apathy/whatever. Come December, does anyone doubt that he candidates mentioned by 123 (#49) will all be entertaining offers from programs much more attractive than IUFB? I sure don’t.

  67. 2 points- The coaches I mentioned are not ALL going to get the million dollar pay raise offer to come to a power 5 conference that IU can offer. Don’t sell the program short. From facilities to TV time and exposure, IU would be a substantial upgrade for any of those coaches.

    Secondly, I think Hoosier ’86 said it on a post to another article, if you have inferior talent for your league (IU), you want to shorten the game and control the ball on offense as much as possible. Wilson’s offense does just the opposite. He lengthens the games and maximizes the number of series his defense has to be on the field. Even the commentators on the B1G network were saying the same thing. IU doesn’t just burn out at the end of games, they burn out at the end of each half. They don’t have the talent levels to sub in fresh talent for all those extra plays. IU will never be a place were talent-ready kids are stockpiled on the bench. That’s on the coaches for putting in a system they cannot run effectively with the talent they have.

  68. 100 spot on 123. Although I would add that it makes sense to run our style vs a div 2 type or one of our cake pre conference games! But inside the big ten its a complete error of game theory to extend the game to teams that are better. Not to mention he stop going for forth and shorts when the life in stands is empty. Why is Iowa going for it in the same exact situations and we are not with a better offense? Because hes just trying to do enough to hoodwink clueless Fred Glass. ViceV no true Indiana fan gives a you know what about what other teams fans say. That so super you coached local kids, I’ve got experience at the national level. Guys like you and Wilson are playing checkers vs chess. Lynch was 6-26 and we canned him rightfully so. Wilson is 6-31 good man/ offensive coordinator bad hc. Facts are facts VV stop being delusional

  69. Donald T you did it again and couldn’t avoid making a very unrealistic comment about me being realistic. By the way I gave specifics about my coaching and you just give a general so pardon me if I don’t by it. A good coach at the national level give HS coaches their due not telling them “super you coached local kids” which is a arrogant comment.

    Try listening, I am not happy with the losses, where we differ is I see the improvement on the field even if we don’t win the games. We need to win the games at some point but I understand when you have young kids on defense because the new DC and coaches haven’t had time to recruit all the players they need. Offensively every year the coaches have put points on the board. Even with Nate out last year the offense still moved the ball and had a 2000 yd rusher when everyone knew he was getting the ball.

    By the way did I ever run into you at the McNally clinic of the Mushroom Society. You see I went to all kinds of clinics to learn football whether they were college, Nike, Gatorade, or Pro clinics. If you were there we both had our hearts in the right place as OL is the core of any football team.

  70. 123- I think it was the former Minnesota QB that said about Indiana on the B1G network. It was something like “Who cares if you score 35 if you always give up 50?” And that’s the problem. We can score but we can’t control the clock. IU has a bunch of kids that were lower level 3 and some 2 star recruits on defense. Those guys may take 3 and sometimes 4 years before they are physically able to compete in the B1G. But Wilson has to play them as redshirt freshmen or true freshmen because he has no other choice. His offense forces his hand because it puts his defense on the field for too long and for too many plays. That won’t change next year or the year after that or the year that. We aren’t going to instantly start beating out Michigan, Michigan State, Ohio State, Iowa, Penn State or Wisconsin for the 4 and 5 star talent that can play as true freshmen or sophomores. That means our 2nd and 3rd team guys probably aren’t ready to play. So you either keep the starters in and they get gassed or you put in guys that aren’t up to the task. Either way, expect their usual 2nd and 4th quarter blowouts. The answer is a ball control offense but that isn’t happening with Wilson. He tried against Iowa with running down the play clock and running Howard a bunch. But then Howard got gassed and the game was over.

  71. v13, Congratulations, you have successfully exposed the troll. He is baffled by the knowledge you possess and fires a wide pattern hitting nothing trying to discredit you.

  72. HT Gents why am I unable to complete establishing a post on todays Hoosier Morning thread? My problem or yours?

  73. You know, maybe he’s just not that good of a coach. You read through everyone saying how Wilson is trying to build a program from the bottom and how it takes time to turn things around. But after 5 years, his teams always seem to play their worst when the games are on the line. They seem to lose more fumbles, throw more interceptions, have more defensive players in the wrong places and make more “correctable errors.” Isn’t that all part of coaching? Getting them to stop making all the mistakes? Guys like Harbaugh at MIchigan or Meyer at Ohio State won right away because their teams don’t make all those mistakes. Just using them as examples and yes I know we aren’t going to get a coach of that caliber. But maybe this is just the best that Wilson can get his teams to play. Might be a great offensive coach, seems to try really hard, gets a few nice recruits but maybe he’s just not a very good head coach?

  74. We play fast so our numbers are gonna be inflated what do you not get? Funny you don’t bring up any defensive numbers or wins or loss numbers. With Nate out we moved the ball? LMAO lets see some facts there, oh wait that is a complete lie. One td vs a down Penn state team this year when he was out. Nate’s gonna be gone (probably howard to!) and those offensive numbers will even drop drastically, everyone knows this but YOU. There is ZERO hope with this program right now everyone being honest about the program here but you and troll teams. Hunter Jr from IU at okl st starts on defense, how in the hell is he making plays with them and not us when he played here? HC is responsible for all aspects of the team, not just the offense, again everyone understands this but VV13.

  75. Double Down’s other posts full of thoughtful insights based on rock solid facts:

    LSU– Leonard Fournette- you stink! Running in an I formation with a blocking back!? Welcome to 1990!!! That will never work!! you morons! Guess that’s why you’re a bunch of losers!

    Michigan– Jabrill Peppers running the wildcat?! The wildcat sucks! Idiots! Bet you wish you still had Brady Hoke!

    To TCU– Hello Trevon Boykin? Run for 8 TD’s? IT’s CALLED A FORWARD PASS! You might want to try it some time!! That’s how IU got to be the #1 ranked college offense IN THE WORLD!! AND NO I DON”T MAKE UP MY FACTS!!!!

  76. FT20 we don’t the answer to that yet but we will find out. When you have 4 and 5 star athletes with more behind them, they know they have to listen and learn or be replaced. Our players are now but freshmen are still only a step above high school and haven’t seen the talent they face nor are they proficient in technique. Here is a thought experiment, IU has these DBs but they are now seniors with talented players behind them – would this be a team that could play and beat top ten teams? I think they could, just look at MSU’s DBs when they have just two freshmen safeties to play. No matter who you are playing young kids makes it tough to win. Memphis was supposed to be so good but got totally out played by Navy. I hope it turns out IU has good coaches and based on what I see [besides wins and losses] I think they are good coaches.

  77. double down I see teams over matched in big ten do it all the time. Minnesota and Northwestern win most of their games by shortening the game. But I mean that might not give us a 2000 yard rushers on a 1 win team. I disagree with someone who said we used time management vs iowa. We we got the ball before all it would take is two or three first downs to run the clock out. No we score way too soon and let the smarter better coach Iowa team score with no time left and take the lead and all the momentum into half. Simpletons with no math skills anyone whos had to make there living in this game for long knows how to manage the clock . Seth Littrell sure is doing good at North Carolina how the hell did we let him go?

  78. vv13 all you give is your terrible opinion, no facts or logic. Mich st has different coaching level than us on defense. You keep blowing off that we are young, but you fail to mention we likely will lose our three best players. Id take Memphis record any day, so what if they had “one” bad game. A bowl something 80 teams not iu will make. The sad fact is we had the talent and soft schedule to win 8 or 9 games this year.

  79. 86 – you’re priceless. BTW, running attacks can be just as explosive as passing attacks. My point, is that your silly goose ideas about running the I-formation are absolutely antiquated and, in this day and age, goofy. The examples you used were pretty much the worst things I have ever read on here to support any position.

    LSU – Doesn’t run the I formation. They have a few sets where they’ll use a blocking back, but their offense isn’t that way. How about we quote our former HD coach, now OC on LSU’s Offensive Scheme”

    We’ll feel like we’ll be able to run the football. How we choose to run it, time will tell. I think you will see tremendous diversity in our running game. We really want to attack people downhill, from the inside out, but also be able to attack from sideline-to-sideline.

    “Not any of us want to turn Leonard Fournette into a lateral runner. That makes no sense. Darrel Williams is great downhill, also, but he’s got a nice little shallow cut to him like a lot of backs LSU has seen over the years. And then we’ve got a group of young guys coming in to complement them, so we’ve got to let that play out.

    “We want to attack people on the edges. Travin and D.J. Chark are two of the five fastest guys on our team and we’ll see how incoming freshmen receivers fit in.

    “We still want to attack people vertically, obviously that’s one of our strengths. But if you say you want to throw a higher percentage of completions, you’re going to have to get easier throws for your quarterbacks.

    “You’re going to see a more diverse passing attack that gives our guys more opportunities to complete 65 percent of their passes. If you go from 65 percent completion (accomplished by Zach Mettenberger in 2013) to less than productive as we did last season (50 percent, last in the SEC), you obviously need to make a change by improving the scheme and the execution. Those two things combined will get us back where we want to be.”

    “We had been waiting on DeSean. He had really practiced well to that point, and here he finally came. As our formations stretch, it creates more space for the run and throwing the ball inside. When you’re in your traditional tight end-attached formations, unless you’ve got a real elusive tight end, you’re resigned to throwing longer throws on the perimeter. Expanding formations creates simpler throws.”

    http://www.nola.com/lsu/index.ssf/2015/02/candid_cameron_part_3_of_a_3-p.html

    They are primarily a running team, but they do it through stretching the field. That doesn’t mean they’re a ball control I formation offense (which, I think, only Brett Bielema runs anymore).

    BTW, Indiana uses double Tight-End formations quite a bit as well.

    Michigan– they ran the wildcat??? OMG, they used a 5 star recruit to run past people? I stand corrected. Indiana should run the Wildcat out of the I with Simeon Cobbs every down. Hopefully he catches the snap.

    To TCU– wow, you are absolutely the worst. TCU is about the farthest thing from a “Ball Control ” offense. They run a no-huddle, hurry up offense that spreads the field and gives Heisman candidate Boyken the OPTION to hand off to two first team Big 12 running backs ( B.J. Catalon and Aaron Green) in the backfield, or drop back and pass to a first and second team All Americans receivers (Josh Doctson and Kolby Listenbee), or run the ball himself. Except for a mobile QB, TCU is almost identical in it’s approach to offense as IU. TCU’s offense, which includes a dynamic running attack, is absolutely explosive.

  80. Donald T, I haven’t seen enough of Minn to know, but I believe you and grant you that one.

    Northwestern on the other hand, doesn’t run a ball control offense out of I. They are a running first team that uses zone read, option, playaction, power running, screens, four verticals…sometimes even the triple option.

    Just want to clarify, that I’m not saying I’m against teams that run the ball primarily (I’d love to have Oregon’s offense). Quite the opposite. I’m just saying that 86’s goofy support for the I formation is laughable.

    Indiana uses lots of traditional run formation, too. It is the mixing blend of these elements that optimizes the strengths of the personnel, while keeping a defense guessing, is the art of offensive scheming in college football.

  81. 123: If your point two (#76) is correct that IU is gassed by the end of each half, then these players are not properly conditioned. A broadcast football game has hours (literally!) of standing-around-time (time outs, TV time outs, replay review, penalties, etc.) on top of the time already spent standing around between plays. Football players’ conditioning just does not stand up to that of players in continuous action sports such as soccer, rugby, etc. Way back when, I roomed with an IU soccer player and thought I was in pretty good shape until he invited me “out for a jog.” Boy, was I ever pathetic.

    Hoosier86: That goes ditto for you (#80). Howard is tired after all the carries Redding gets? What ever happened to backs like Anthony Thompson who carried all freakin’ Satuday afternoon and consistently racked up huge yardage doing it? Guys like that seemed to get stronger as the game went on.

    Donald T(hope not followed by “rump”) post #80: 2015 time of possession per Big Ten stat page = IU 28:40; Minn. 30:22; NU 29:23. Not a significant difference, I posit.

    According to
    http://www.footballstudyhall.com/2014/1/24/5337968/college-football-five-factors

    time of possession is not one the top four statistical correlations to winning football games. The top stat is yards per play, so quick strike teams win a lot of games by racking up a lot of points in fewer plays, which equates to less time of possession, not more.

    See also http://www.milehighreport.com/2012/6/13/2962878/sack-and-pressure-info

    “Lopsided advantages in TOP tend to appear late in games when offenses that are already ahead let the clock run down while offenses that are behind try to move the ball quickly. So it’s winning that often leads to TOP and not necessarily TOP that leads to winning.

    When we look at the nature of football, we see that time of possession doesn’t lead to winning, and when we sit down and think about it, that makes sense. It’s not how slow or fast you score, it’s that you score, the best example of this being the Colts-Dolphins game where the ‘Phins held the ball for 45:07 and still lost, because what matters is that you score as often as possible, not the speed at which you score.”

  82. I’ve watched Ok. St. 3 times this year and Hunter did not start any of those 3. So before you all get sucked in to the troll’s BS please be advised he is in occasional rotation as a backup in the 2 deep CB depth chart. He has played in all 9 games mostly on ST’s and has a total of 15 tackles and 2 interceptions. Not bad for a backup CB and ST player but hardly a defensive star under Gundy’s coaching. He would be a starter for IU this year as he was the 2 years prior. His former starting position is filled by a true freshman who 3 weeks ago turned 18 years old. That is the youth v13 is talking about and it will not change over the next couple of seasons. As better players are recruited they will undoubtedly play in the place of the upperclassmen who displaced the upperclassmen prior to them. I’ll bet no 1 knows there is a 4* CB on the roster setting out his transfer year as I type. He very possibly will replace the recently turned 18 year old as a starter. That is building a foundation of depth but it does not eliminate the growing pains. As for losing NS and possibly Howard they came to IU wanting to play for Wilson and his staff and others are following regularly. Just today IU got good news out of W. Laffy as they had a Hoosier HS baller decommitt from the PUkes. His name is Collin Miller a 2016 Hamilton Southeastern 3* LB who Wilson and staff focused hard on during his recruitment and never gave up on him. Coach Inge was the lead and helped to get Miller so impressed with IU he has made several trips to Bloomington this Fall. All predictors and their predictions indicate he will announce for IU. Slow steps yes but moving forward.

  83. Here’s what I don’t understand. To be on this site you should be an IU football fan. To be an IU football fan, you either are a masochist or you are an IU alumni or student. But no one that writes as poorly as you write could have attended college– “It is the mixing blend of these elements that optimizes the strengths of the personnel, while keeping a defense guessing, is the art of offensive scheming in college football.”

    So why are you on this site? Your facts aren’t factual “IU has a top 20 offense” and your insights aren’t insightful “our receivers had the hands of a Clydesdale all day.” DD- you clearly haven’t attended college, so are you a masochist? I’m not making fun of you, and I’m not here to judge.

  84. Donald T, I see you just diss someone that disagrees with your assessment. I see you don’t read and comprehend as I do give facts on this post and many post; you just don’t like the facts. We don’t know who we are going to lose next year except a QB, OT, DE, and Bandit[facts by the way]. Yes we could lose another one or two leaving early but only time will tell that. I didn’t say we were young but that our secondary is young and look what MSU’s secondary looks like with two freshmen safeties 10th in the Big Ten
    G com att int % yds a/c TD YD/Game
    Michigan State 9 174 289 9 60.2 2248 7.8 14 249.8
    Indiana 9 220 366 6 60.1 2970 8.1 22 330.0
    notice how close the stats are despite IU playing more freshmen. The big difference are how many attempts are made against IU. Three teams have worse completion % than IU. My point is that MSU is an established program and yet their DBs struggle too.

    Our team does disappoint me at times but they are close to being a team to challenge the top teams. The defense is made up of soph and freshmen except for our front so the defense should be much better next year. IU under Coach Wilson has proven they have a potent offense every year. Someone brought up coach Littrel [I like his Offense] here is what he said “Littrell said UNC offers him the opportunity to recruit some of the top athletes in the country and live in one of the best places. As for UNC’s ability to pay its assistant coaches, Littrell said he isn’t worried” this is from the DailyTarheel.com.

  85. davis read post #78 if you can! double down I should of provided more substance. Say if Northwestern had a 25 point lead with 17 minutes to go they would win that game 99% of the time because they are smart enough to run the play clock down to about 5 before they snap it. My beef is more with game theory than our offensive schemes! I’m not even saying we have to run the ball, hell the pats won the super bowl passing like 19 times in a row. I don’t care about TOP either. If you read my posts above I said that our hurry up works just against inferior opponents, not big ten when we have a lot less horses! Hoosier Clarion aka coach Wilson so you think 6 big ten wins in 5 years is ok? At the end of the day you preform or you don’t and nobody not even IU should accept no bowls in 5 years, when close to 70% of the teams make a bowl!

  86. WOW you did produce some numbers im proud vv13! Like I said and everyone with a brain can comprehend no offense, but we don’t have a history of developing defensive players in decades! Michigan state does, this sounds crazy vv but history does usually repeat itself. Maybe in you’re head with spriggs, sud and probably JH gone our defense will turn into the 85 bears and we will win 9 games but its not happening. Bill Lynch 6-26 fired (correctly). Wilson 6-31 and is getting paid alot more with more resources, see a problem?

  87. We are last in total defense in the big ten by over 30 yards a game. We give up 6.6 yards a play nobody else is even close to that. How is the hc not responsible for the defense as well?

  88. I truly miss Harvard. The art of the online insult, the tongue in cheek banter. Instead, I have to battle wits with Captain I Formation, who when challenged, says, “U r dumb. You didninit go to college.”

    Yawn. 86, if you’re going to insult me, do it well. Your last post: amateur.

  89. Still trying to figure out what to do. There seems to be 4 schools of thought here:

    Fire Wilson Now!- he hasn’t done it and the Rutgers loss was the straw that broke the camel’s back. These folks bring up Wilson’s record showing that its worse than the last coach even thought facilities and ability to recruit are better. They have a list of names that could be brought in to turn the program around.

    Wait Until the End of the Season- He’s been bad, but if he can get to 6 wins, he deserves a couple more years and hopefully he can keep things moving in the right direction. They point out recruiting has been better but will fall off quickly if Wilson can’t produce a winning season after 5 tries. Also, they say IU has a really good QB and RB combination. That’s not typical which means we may be worse next year ever if the defense gets better.

    Wait Until Next Year- He’s been bad but we can find glimmers of hope in playing teams like OSU, MSU and Iowa competitively into the 4 quarter. Give Wilson a couple years extension so he can continue to recruit but hold his feet to the fire and drop him next year if there’s still no improvement.

    Give Him a 5 Year Extension Now!- IU has been a train wreck, is a train wreck and will be a train wreck for a few more years unless we stay the coarse. Besides, no self respecting coach worth anything would take job. These people don’t have a lot of proof but more a gut call that staying the coarse is the best of a bad situation.

    Does that sum it up or is there anything I’m missing?

  90. FT 20: You have accurately identified the Hoosier Scoop brain trust factions (except I’m not confident that the number of posters that wants to give KW five whole years is statistically significant enough to warrant a distinct category). Put me in Category II.

    The Donald: Can’t make sense of #78, especially the part about going for it on forth [sic] down when the stands are empty. So the right play call depends on how many people are paying attention?

    You state the OBVIOUS that 99% of the time that NU (or any football team that is not IU) wins when +25 with 17:00 to go. But I still don’t understand how scoring more points when leading (by however much) could ever, ever, be a bad thing. I grant you that leading by 32 with 13:00 to go is better than leading by 32 with 16:00 to go, but if the IU offense is fast-scoring I don’t think it makes sense to try and switch gears to an offense that is slow-scoring and not the favored modus operandi (and thus likely to bog down and punt it away rather than score at all).

    Your post #88 that NU “slows down” the game- NUFB has time of possession 29:32, IU has 28:40 (Big Ten stats page 2015). I don’t think that forty-three seconds more TOP is significant in explaining why one team is 7-2 (with several wins over Top 25 teams) and the other is not. I realize that your post #78 says you don’t care about TOP, but if not, then what does “slowing down the game” mean? And there are plenty of others who DO care about TOP; they blab about it here all the time.

    I miss Harvard, too. His “insults” were/are clever and humorous enough to dissuade (usually) the intended targets from the infantile ad hominem responses that sometimes spoil this site. Maybe he’s busy posting about basketball on the basketball page (where it belongs).

    I’m enjoying this thread immensely; too bad it will drop of the page soon. Anything you HT people can do about that?

  91. Going for fourth and shorts pumps up a lifeless fan base, have you been to a game my friend? Not to mention our offense is our strength. I’m really wondering what you are reading i’ve said for over decades TOP is meaningless! My point was if you take the RUTGERS game up 25 with less than 17 mins left and their only good player off the field any smart time can get a W 99% of the time BC they wont extend the game like us. We kept snapping the ball with lots of time left on the play clock while switching to Conservative play calling! Football is my life, we basically are couple of first downs from icing game. Why do you think we are last EVERY year in total defense with KW? So we took our foot off the gas which you correctly mention and to top it we keep snapping the ball too soon! Thats called game (clock) management which is scary our hc is clueless year 5 bc this team has talent!

  92. I know this sounds crazy to you davis but the only time people who make a living in this game who are worth their salt know that the clock is meaningless until the 4th quarter.

  93. Besides getting the drive before half, something we suck at as well. I love you man but if you say one more thing about TOP im gonna sue you for slander. lol

  94. The Donald: I’ll take all the love I can get! TOP debate suspended until I am again provoked (by anybody, hope y’all are paying attention). But I thought the purpose of going for it on fourth down is to get a first down, not “pump up” fans. And besides, nothing deflates (well, almost nothing) like turning it over on downs. Fan bases (whether pumped up, down, or sideways) don’t make blocks, tackle ball carriers, or run good routes.

    Digressing somewhat, and maybe at odds with a lot of posters here, I’ve got to argue that the Rutgers game was not the real alarm bell for KW’s prosepcts; it was the PSU game. IUFB had an emotional high after the good showing v. OSU but squandered it the next week. Such letdowns (one word or two?) are not uncommon, but such is what good head coaches SUCCESSFULLY guard against. That IU could not capitalize on the OSU high to beat the beatable PSU gives credence to those who (like myself) are increasingly doubtful that KW has progressed from OC to HC in five years’ time.

  95. You state the “OBVIOUS” as you said that the point of going for it is to make a first down. But if you want to pull off upsets you gotta roll the dice, the hell with fgs. Iowa kicked 0 fgs. Not because they never made it to fourth down, they knew they could go on long scoring td drives almost every time. If our strength is our offense we should be kicking less long fgs and going for it on 4th down a whole hell of a lot more. In fact when we played Rutgers up 25 we had a fourth and short on their side of the field and we try to punt which lead to a td and started the worst IU lost in years!

  96. I agree that psu was amazingly bad! But anyone that’s been watching this team knows we looked like one of the worst teams in d 1 without Sudfeld last year! That’s why this year kw is all in, if he doesn’t get 6 wins it will NEVER happened here.

  97. Double Down- With respect to #99, Hoosier ’86 didn’t call you dumb, he gave examples of your comments that make you sound uneducated. There is a difference. He gave the example of one of your mixed metaphors- “our receivers had the hands of a Clydesdale all day” Your metaphor states that ALL of our receivers had the hands of ONE animal that DOESN’T HAVE HANDS- that doesn’t make sense. He then showed a quote of yours “It is the mixing blend of these elements that optimizes the strengths of the personnel, while keeping a defense guessing, is the art of offensive scheming in college football.”

    DD, that sentence doesn’t make sense either. All you have to do is put your comments through an online grammar checker. Writing clear sentences would help people take you more seriously. In the future, you could also just google football metaphors to help with your comments.

    The last point is that ’86 gave examples of teams that are using the offensive plays he recommends. You followed each one by saying those teams don’t ONLY run either those plays or out of those formations. But ’86 never said they did. His point was that running some of those plays or formations along with our current plays could be beneficial. Do you understand how that is different?

    I think most people on this site don’t like the name calling. I think you and ’86 need to find ways of disagreeing without being disagreeable. But putting a couple extra minutes into your posts would take away a lot of his amnunition.

  98. Just out of curiosity, does using the screen name ‘Donald T’ leave you with the impression people will think more of you? The only experience I have with that moniker kinda makes me think you are a doofus.

    DD, I didn’t have any trouble interpreting your posts. English is my primary language.

  99. I started on a tirade of who needs to be fired, so i went with this name. It has nothing to do with who i am going to vote for, feel the bern.

  100. If you wanted to use a real ” doofus” name you would have went with Bernie Sanders. Free lunch for everybody!

  101. Lol.

    Thanks Chet.

    I’m thoroughly enjoying these two. I’ve been accused of a lot on my life (and on here), but uneducated is not I’ve of them. You’d think it would hurt my feelings. Maybe I have the heart of a lion…?

    Where’s Harvard?

  102. RAM give me a candidate that is better please. I think the real free lunch right now would be corporate welfare and crony capitalism.

  103. 123,

    It simply isn’t worth it for me to continue beyond a general reply, but I will address factual inaccuracies. In defending the facts of one poster’s posts you widely mischaracterized mine. I find the grammer grenade thrown my way to be curious; the person you’re defending happens to agree with your offensive strategy.

    I’m poking at 86 not because he’s got a particular offensive strategy, it is because he is humorless.

    You can enjoy my syntax at your leisure.

    Maybe you both can use Google to find how to be a little less crabby.

  104. The Donald: Actually, I agree very strongly with you that all teams should be going for it on 4th down much more often- and that goes double for an offensive-oriented team such as IU. Wish you had written that in the first place instead of babbling about titillating the fan base. I don’t mean to be mean, but I have to agree with some others that your posts border on gibberish. If I want that, I’ll watch the political debates, but in the meantime I will improve my civic consciousness here on the Hoosier Scoop.

    You might enjoy this: http://www.advancedfootballanalytics.com/index.php/home/research/game-strategy/120-4th-down-study

    Giving up 25% of offensive possessions as a matter of course makes no sense. Should be required reading for anyone who purports to know anything about football. (Just stirrin’ it up!)

  105. Hey 123– your guy PJ Fleck got his butt kicked by Bowling Green last night– ugh, an up tempo spread team that hardly thinks about running. The same one that beat us last year. They’ve also beaten Purdue and Maryland. Their QB is the real deal. Fleck is a younger version of Jim Harbaugh. He told his team that it’s his job to out recruit them and their job to keep their positions. He is intense! I’d love to see IU hire him. Rumors say South Carolina and Illinois have Fleck at the top of their lists.

  106. My grammar is awful Davis. Math is my strong suit, who said my posts are gibberish? So we agree, whats the problem?

  107. The Donald: OK, gibberish was kind of harsh. Let’s just say your “stream of consciousness” posts leave my slower boat in your wake. We do indeed mostly agree on the fourth down thingy, but I seem to differ that it should be an SOP, not just to be used when needing to pull off an upset.

  108. If you recall a study came out that i speak at a 7th grade level, inside political joke! No I completely agree with your SOP comment. I was even fine with the fake punt on our own 15 vs osu. Im pretty sure you are just pulling at straws. I would advocate that we don’t kick long fgs vs the Southern Illinois and go for it on their side of the field as well! I just don’t feel like we played to win the game vs Iowa!

  109. Hey IU you want to fill the stadium? Win. You want to win. Hire a quality coach with a proven track record. Hey some one tell me the last time IU has hired a winner as a coach? I know the answer do you?

  110. Actually GP was diagnosed in early Spring with non-hodgkin lymphoma. Did I get that spelling right?

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