Johns likes what he sees from Lagow #iufb

Size and skill are only part of the equation that makes Richard Lagow the frontrunner to win Indiana’s open starting quarterback job.

His ongoing development from spring practice to the edge of the season’s start is another encouraging sign in his favor.

Although coach Kevin Wilson has not officially named Lagow Indiana’s top quarterback — and he isn’t likely to update the competition until Friday, at the earliest — all signs point to the junior college transfer as Indiana’s guy behind center first on Sept. 1 at Florida International.

Last week, Wilson said Lagow was receiving the bulk of the work at quarterback, and from his view, offensive coordinator Kevin Johns says he’s been encouraged with Lagow’s performance this month.

The next step in the developmental process for the 6-foot-6, 240-pound Texan is getting him the on-field experience that he needs.

“He’s playing with more confidence,” Johns said. “There are always things to work on, and I think for him it’s just going to be some game experience. I think he’s gonna learn just a ton in this first game, and he’s gonna take that and continue to grow from week to week this season.”

Johns, a former college quarterback at Dayton, works especially close with IU’s quarterbacks and receivers. Since Lagow arrived on campus in December 2015 and began practicing in earnest with the team in March, he’s followed a developmental arc that has his coordinator intrigued.

“I’ve seen a lot of growth from Rich,” Johns said. “Really, just in his technique of keeping a base (with) his feet, of delivering the ball the right way (and) making his reads. He’s playing more confidently right now. He’s gonna be a bigger, physical presence.”

Indeed, with his frame, Lagow is virtually a carbon copy of his predecessor, Nate Sudfeld. Lagow, however, appears more athletic and has shown better mobility both inside and outside the pocket.

He has also flashed the necessary arm strength that made Sudfeld a good fit for Wilson’s offense. Now, the key for Lagow is getting comfortable with all of the advanced reads and progressions that Wilson incorporates.

At Cisco (Texas) Community College, where he completed 66 percent of his passes and threw for 21 touchdowns on 2,285 yards, Lagow worked within a spread offense, so he wasn’t completely cold making the transition to Wilson’s approach.

The good thing is that Lagow has veterans around him that can ease the burden of commanding the offense. With so many weapons at the skill positions, especially on the outside, there could be a temptation to tinker and get creative with packages and schemes.

For now, at least, IU isn’t trying to overwhelm anyone. Especially not the new guy.

“At a certain point, you have to be careful you don’t have too much,” Johns said. “Sometimes you start doing too many cute things and so for us, we feel good about what we think Rich can do. We’re trying to hone in on those things as we get ready for a couple weeks of getting ready for FIU. We just have to make sure we’re not trying to do too much. I feel good about what he can do.”

Johns also says the same goes for the rest of the quarterbacks Indiana has evaluated this fall.

“Danny Cameron is doing phenomenal,” Johns said. “Austin King has really come on. Zander Diamont is still in the same kind of role that he’s been in, so we’re really pleased with all four of those guys right now.”

52 comments

  1. And for my money, King is the backup. IU hasn’t released an updated depth chart — and even that won’t mean a whole heck of a lot. But if this team needs another quarterback for an extended period, my first choice is King. He, too, has made some very impressive throws during the brief windows of practice I’ve seen this month. Zander has shown better arm strength, Cameron is fine, but King is making a strong case to climb the two-deep.

  2. King has the tools. It just seems like he’s had to learn how to handle Wilson as a coach. Wilson is a real taskmaster when it comes to quarterbacks. He’s not easy to play for. There’s a very, very high standard set for that position. Nate Sudfeld told me a few months ago that it took time to learn how to accept Wilson’s criticisms.

    “Coach Wilson has the highest standard for the offense, but also for the quarterback position – and a guy he sees as the leader of the team,” Sudfeld said. “You’d think that the leader of the team, the coach would leave him alone and let him do his thing to coach other guys, but no. He coaches the leaders the hardest. …. Even if I had a good game, I was almost coached harder the next week by coach Wilson than if I had a bad game.

    “I think dealing with him and learning how to continue to improve and not be complacent in where I’m at has really helped me to improve as a player and just to deal with the mental aspect of it and ride the roller coaster emotionally and stuff. I think that’s really prepared me.”

  3. Mike I agree, talent wise King is #2 but who knows how coach would deal with Lagow being injured. Lagow is more athletic than Nate and we need to see if he develops enough to make IU fans forget about the last guy and be excited about the new guy. It will be fun to see how the team does against FIU. Many people think this is a trap game but if IU is to improve this year they need to handle FIU without any real threat of losing.

  4. I think KW is becoming a good head coach. He’s made great strides in the last four years. But as far as recruiting and developing quality Quarterbacks, I think the jury is still out. Wilson has not been effective recruiting highly ranked HS Quarterbacks. He did not recruit Tre, lucked out when his former OC brought Sudfeld with him to IU after Arizona hired RichRod, and has displayed some tendencies which I believe are counter-productive for developing quality QBs. During his tenure, he’s only named the starter before the summer camp one time, which was last year (as if it wasn’t obvious). That means he’s either struggling to assess QB talent, he’s playing mind games, or the offensive genius sees possibilities to use each QB’s unique skills. Regardless of the reason, none of that is good for his team. Of late, Wilson has repeatedly told the media that IU will “need to play” all five QBs this season. WTF!!!? Hopefully, only one QB will “need” to play, and one or two more QBs will get to play. But needing to play all five is ridiculous! If all five of IU’s QBs need to play this season, IU’s season will be in big trouble. Lagow and his two primary back-ups need all the game experience they can get. You name Lagow the starter and play him until each game reaches “garbage time.” Then you give the back-up some in-game reps in case Lagow goes down with an injury. Too many good and experienced QBs have transferred away from Wilson’s program. Two experienced QBs transferred in the same year, leaving IU so exposed Wilson had to play a converted freshman linebacker, who then immediately got injured. Losing Tre after the 2014 Spring camp was bad. And when Sudfeld went down in the 2014 MSU game, IU’s season was ruined. You get away with those mistakes when you’re a rookie coaching a program with very low expectations. But after you get a fat new contract and expectations rise, you better figure out how to recruit and develop top notch quarterbacks. Hopefully Lagow will prove to be exactly that this season and put all my concerns to rest.

  5. PO- You must have been reading my mind about signing quality high school QBs. I was just thinking that IUFB can’t continue to rely on high-caliber JUCO QBs being available when needed.

  6. If you can spare some small change for a 160 million dollar Santa Claus disaster and some ‘Sexy Rexy’ posters under the tree, the Chicago Bears will gladly handover a couple “highly ranked” h.s. QBs from Indiana. I’m also quite certain they’d take a Gunner in a game against the Colts….instead of Major Choke Daddy’ from Lochte University via B-town South. Then again…I live in a Bear bubble of a cave and I shouldn’t generalize about a basketball state and their fabulous QBs.

  7. The issue with QB coming to IU isn’t about the past the past but how the QBs they have are able to do. Like the defense the QB recruiting was a mess with the two QBs leaving. Right now King has the arm of a top QB, Cameron is more of a Montana QB, and we will have to see how Ramsey looks.

    Po, I didn’t hear coach say all five QBs would play this year but that all five needed to be prepared to play. He is only saying what every coach wants. Coach has coached big name QBs at Oklahoma so I expect that the QBs will start coming when IU wins games they aren’t expected to win.

    Right now the QB position is in good shape but I do think they need to hit a high rated QB in the next two years. So many top QBs look at playing time and with Lagow and King it will be four years before a QB has a great chance to getting playing time.

  8. Po, I’ve corrected you before about Covington but I’ll do it again. In HS he was a starting QB on offense(throwing for 2k yd. and 26 TD’s as a Sr.) and a starting S on the D. He was recruited to IU as a S/LB prospect(key word prospect). Early in Fall camp he started taking snaps as a QB. Hardly an experienced LB converted to QB.

    Indeed, Wilson did state all 5 have to be prepared cause more than 1 will be needed during the course of the season. True, Littrell knew of NS but it was still Wilson who evaluated and identified his potential under proper development at IU. Make no mistake KW developed Sudfeld. He is hands on with the QB’s and the results are strongly positive. With Wilson’s ability to ardently develop young throwers into solid QB’s(I’m thinking Cam Coffman) I really don’t care if Wilson does not get high flying HS signal callers. The whole package makes this possible; quality OL who gave up the fewest sacks in the B1G last year, quality RB’s and WR’s who produce very few T/O’s, not to mention unheralded but developed IU QB’s throw few interceptions in an offense that produces 80+(11th in the nation) snaps a game. In a Wilson offense the QB does not have to win the games. It is ridiculous to state anything contrary.

  9. I won’t say it’s a weakness but it is surprising that we can’t seem to land a 4 star qb when we have the highest rated offense for passing yards and scoring in the B1G. They went after Indiana HS qb’s like Gunner Kiel, Tommy Stevens, Brandon Peters and now Hunter Johnson. But all have gone or are going elsewhere. Maybe now with KW’s extension and the success of Sudfeld and soon to be Lagow, they can pull in a couple of 4’s. Purdue shouldn’t be getting higher rated qb recruits than us.

  10. 123, excellent points in your last two posts.

    HC, I appreciate your consistent defense of KW. But you didn’t “correct” me before and you’re not correcting me now because I already knew that Covington was an impressive raw talent who played QB in HS. But the fact is that he arrived at IU slotted to be a linebacker and was not viewed as being capable of running a Big Ten offense. Less than ideal circumstances required KW to shift Covington from linebacker to “emergency” back-up QB. Covington would never have been thrust into playing QB as a freshman had IU not lost two experienced QBs to transfers. I believe Covington has since been returned to linebacker. If he had the skill set to be a Big Ten quarterback, he’d be on IU’s quarterback depth chart right now.

    As for Wilson being hands-on with the QB, that’s been obvious since he arrived in Bloomington. The question is, is that a problem? When you evaluate it over four seasons, there is ample evidence to suggest Wilson has not done a good job managing his quarterbacks. Sudfeld became the starter his Junior year by default. And last year’s productivity notwithstanding, in totality, the results of Wilson’s approach with quarterbacks can’t, in any context, be considered “strongly positive.” I’d say mediocre at best. As for the stats you referenced, if a team runs 80 offensive plays a game, it’s going to produce a lot of yards and score a lot of points, diminishing the relevance of those stats. But on the other side of the ball, if you fatigue your over-matched defense by going 3-and-out in 32 seconds and lose a 75-point shoot out, who cares? I’m confident it will get better, but from my vantage point, the jury is still out on Wilson’s ability to bring a top-rated (i.e., 4 or 5 star) HS quarterback to IU and develop him into a great college quarterback. His performance in that key criteria has not lived up to the reputation that preceded his arrival in Bloomington.

  11. One further point. You are correct in pointing out that it is IU’s O-line, running backs and receivers that deserve the credit for IU’s success on offense. I give great credit to Wilson for hiring and keeping great Offensive line and running backs coaches. They have done an outstanding job.

  12. Wilson obviously wasn’t responsible for the QB’s upon his arrival….I can’t remember. Were there any high stars in the pipeline? And I also remember the rather massive shock to the system when Gunner decommitted. I’d say he’s rebounded very nicely.
    Gunner painted a quick picture of something that could have been amiss with Wilson …..That one sad event may have made many other top prospects get suspicious of how much development is out there under Wilson at IU….But, now that we’ve seen Gunner’s complete history, impatience, weird behavior, and transferitis at other programs, it came too late for the damage already done to Wilson and the QB momentum needed

    Not only did Wilson arrive at a decimated IU Football(in terms of its neglected history), he had some terrible misfortune with a signature position player….Let’s also not forget the terrible innuendo that followed Wilson on this site after Gunner’s de-committment. He was called a jerk….and there were suggestions that he was visiting too many watering holes..

    It took some time to recover from all that backlash and doubt..It’s sort of ridiculous to not be overjoyed with how Wilson’s teams recovered from early mental setbacks, numerous QB injuries(Roberson and Sudfeld) at a program consistently scheduled against teams in national title discussions. I’m with Clarion…If the 4-stars and 5-star QB’s still have doubts, it may end up being their loss. We may not get Joe Montana out of h.s., but we’ll get a guy Wilson can identify as a high caliber player to develop ….and, more importantly, a leader.

  13. I dare believe that I even forgot about Covington’s iinjury(he was prepared to start at QB) on the eve of a big homecoming game. And we were forced to go with Twiggy….Had Tre already transferred or was he still recovering from his devastating leg break/injury?

    I like the idea of Wilson turning h.s. QBs not huge names into future NFL starters….Playing at IU during a possible last effort to be a legit contender in the BIG has got to prepare any QB for a learning by fire experience…Seems like that sort of experience could build character…along with the many pluses working with a coach already being identified as an offensive genius of sorts..

  14. When it comes to Hoosier Football, I’m now “The Men’s Wearhouse” guy….

    Come and play for a football X’s and O’s genius….You’re gonna like the way you look

  15. Not to mention…Wilson attempting to legitimize his recruiting efforts while some IU grads(some even from this site)were mocking the program with tales of visiting “friends”….asking the following:

    “What IU football stadium…? IU has a football team?”

    Obviously, Gunner didn’t think so. But Gunner was wrong. A lot of us were wrong…. IU is most certainly coming along under Kevin Wilson.

  16. We could look at many positions on offense and say why can’t IU get the 4 and 5 star players when after all IU leads the B1G in offense or is in the top three consistently. Not much concern on getting 4 and 5 star OL because IU coaches develop the players they get to become top players. We don’t get big name RBs but coach McCollough does a great job picking out quality players that he can develop into top RBs.

    IU just hasn’t won enough games to bring in the top players but they are bringing in quality recruits they can develop into top players. With the right wins and enough wins IU will start getting the best players coming to play for the Hoosiers. Until then all our coaches have to do a great job taking good athletes and making them into excellent athletes. It is now time for the defense to do the same with the players they have.

  17. H4H, I love your Men’s Wearhouse approach to IU football; we could call it Hoosier’s for Wearhouse and you would be the guy that is the voice.

  18. The fact that we have Harvard here on a football thread posting 5 times and ONLY talking pigskin – with no under the breath shot at Tom Crean or attempt to dress a basketball post in football clothing – is a tremendous development. Hope you’re doing well, Harvard; nice to see the anger fade away when you talk football.

  19. Hope you’re doing well too, Seahawk.

    Don’t want to steal football from the experts here….I’ve become far more interested in Hoosier Football because of the truly positive light in V-13. I’m still way behind the curve, but V-13 influences me to listen.. The guy doesn’t have a cynical bone in his body. I’ve taken some unfair shots at the football product. He could easily call me names and tell me to leave football alone…..But his kindness and commitment is unwavering…He stays true to his heart without hurting back. .And I wouldn’t call his passion for IU Football a ‘blind faith.’ I’m very swayed by superstition and “signs.” V-13 is a window into a crystal ball of changes coming…..He his a far better sign of great days ahead for IU Football than any roster upgrade or 5-star QB.

    Miss you, Seahawk…Hope you come around more during football season.

  20. Po, Your education continues. The reason Covington was recruited for S/LB is when he committed there were already 3 starting QB’s at IU. Coffman then transferred out in January and TR shrunk away in June. During the 1st week of Fall camp CC joined the QB unit after never having put on pads at IU as a LB. Then in the Spring of 2015 Wilson made his usual player updates to start camp and announced CC was moving to LB even though Wilson stated it was his desire he stay in the QB mix because his work there was promising but the player wanted to play D. In plain words if Wilson was a tyrant CC would be playing QB.

    Po please pay particular attention as another correction is coming. I said nothing about the 80+ snaps a game producing many yards and many points as you stated above to bolster your weak rebuttal.. But I highlighted the fact that even with an offense that runs those 80+ snaps a game the QB’s suffer so few interceptions. 1 of the paramount signs of good coaching(Wilson). Undeniable. It just doesn’t happen on its own.

    Wilson is not a good QB coach, he is an exceptional QB coach. To take the unheralded talent he has had at QB and make IU multiple times a top offense in the nation with few T/O’s is something legends are made of and it will happen again this year.

  21. Top 10 slogan’s inviting copyright lawsuits from Men’s Wearhouse:

    10. Tom Crean: You’re gonna like the way you schnook
    9. Fly Fishing Instructor: You’re gonna like the way you Chinook.
    8. Kitchen Designer: You’re gonna like the way you nook.
    7. Charity Golf Outing: You’re gonna like the way you partook.
    6. Charo: You’re gonna like the way mine shook.
    5. Jealous wife: Your gonna like the way I saw your drifting eyes look.
    4. Mets base-running coach: You’re gonna like the way you Mook (yeah…that one was a stretch…I should have led off with that one).
    3. Jerry Cooney’s Gym: You’re gonna like the way you left hook.
    2. H4H’s Tutoring Services: You’re gonna like the way you gobbledygook .
    1. Bobby Fischer: You’re gonna like they way you rook.

  22. Oh, HC, why waste so much time regurgitating what most Hoosier Football fans, myself especially, already knew? You’re not teaching me anything I didn’t already know about the loss of two QBs and the recruitment of Covington. But the point is, if Wilson had managed his quarterbacks more effectively, he would not have needed to shift Covington to back-up QB in the first place. Coffman was not a heralded QB, but Tre was Indiana’s Mr. Football and considered an exceptional dual-threat QB. Losing two skilled, upperclassmen QBs who had significant experience running Wilson’s offense was a terrible blow to IU’s 2014 team. With Coffman, it was understandable. He had been a starter and had dropped to the #3 QB on the roster. But losing Tre in June, after he went through Spring Ball, was really bad. Tre’s transfer, which completely surprised Wilson, left egg on Wilson’s face and jeopardized the season. No way was Zander, as a freshman, ready to step in as a back-up.

    I appreciate your staunch support of Wilson and his ability to coach quarterbacks. You use the word “coach,” I used the word “manage.” We may be talking about two different skills. The facts raise doubts about the job Wilson has done in “managing” his quarterbacks since arriving at IU. Clearly, his track record has not been exceptional. If he was an exceptional coach of quarterbacks, he’d have signed an elite HS QB in the 2014 or 2015 class who would have been ready to step in as the starter after Sudfeld graduated, having a year or two learning as a back-up. He would not have had to go to the JC ranks to get Lagow. He would not have had to suffer two experienced QBs transfer in the same off-season. He would not have had to thrust a freshman, recruited to play linebacker, into the role of emergency back-up QB. Wilson may be very good at enhancing QB’s skills and mastery of game tactics, techniques, etc., but recruiting and maintaining key talent is a part of a coach’s job description. And so far, Wilson has yet to demonstrate the ability to recruit and/or retain exceptional QBs. I hope Lagow’s performance proves you right and me wrong in the next two years, and I hope Wilson demonstrates the ability to sign a “Top 20” rated High School Quarterback in the near future. But’s let’s see how many of the five QBs on this year’s roster are on the team at the start of next summer’s camp. I won’t be surprised if two more of Wilson’s QBs choose to transfer after this season is over.

  23. vesuvius, I think you’re partially right. IU has not won enough games to attract 4 and 5 star HS QBs. But in addition to that, I believe a big problem for recruiting is IU’s very low attendance at home games. You would think that the opportunity to become a starter in the Big Ten at an early age (i.e.,sophomore), play against great competition, and play for a dynamic an effective offensive coach would appeal to a lot of young stud QBs. But who wants to play home games in front of 38,000 fans when almost all other major-conference football programs enjoy attendance of over 65,000.

    IU’s football program is improving. Many IU fans, like myself, are optimistic about this season and beyond. The competition coming to Bloomington this year is good (no more Indiana States on the roster), and Bloomington is a great place to be for a football weekend. I hope attendance at Iu’s home games increases significantly this season. If not, I fear Wilson will continue to struggle signing the players necessary to take IU to the next level.

  24. Po, without a doubt attendance is an issue and I hope with increased season ticket sales it gets better this year. Attendance is a to way street as the team has to play top schools to get interest from the fans but the team also needs to win big games to get the most fans in the seats. That is why I think this season is critical to change things and not a season to maintain last year’s success. Winning 9 or 10 games this year would solve a lot of the problems at IU while continuing to win 10 or more will keep solving the attendance problems and 4/5 star players coming to IU.

  25. I could be mistaken, but isn’t Covington far more the exception than the rule…Are there many linebackers in the history of the college/NFL football who could spin around to play QB?

    I could also be mistaken, but aren’t a lot of other positions on a football team far more interchangeable? Can’t an offensive tackle switch sides of the line or maybe move to guard? Can a corner shift to another corner….? Can a big safety come up and play a more interior position and convert to a linebacker if a better pass defender emerges? Aren’t there far more opportunities to stay on the field, still find PT(even in special teams), be converted to just about any other position(outside your original position), other than a QUARTERBACK?

    Any QB on a roster takes a very big gamble to live as a back-up on a college football team…And that’s the flaw in any of this falling disproportionately on Wilson.. A. Gunner Keil..Scatterbrain B. Injuries. C. It’s a position where your only sole chance to get onto the field is at said given position(Covington is beyond and exception to a rule).

    When you are a QB, your few chances to play in front of the fans/NFL scouts/cameras are paramount. Not to mention, at IU, you are at a program that will struggle to be featured on things like ‘College Game Day’ during your entire 4-year stay. Your exposure is about as limited as it can get for playing in a power conference(It’s improving but still very low). Throw in the trappings of a program attempting to rise from the bottom of a long, long reputation as a cellar dweller, and you fully understand the risking of narrow opportunities for victories caries a heavy weight on a coach…
    When I look at a QB in a backup role at Indiana, i fully understand how the limited exposure, specificity of your talent(99.9% of QBs aren’t going to be converted to tight ends, linebackers, or wideouts…(This isn’t LeBron fantasy land). and the small room for error/risk-taking a coach can take when under such rebuilding pressures at a notorious bottom-feeder, could invite many thoughts of transferring. Lineman can be shifted …Secondaries can be rotated….Multiple linebackers with mulitple skills that can work in different situations….Receivers are interchangeable….There is only ONE QB….You are either ‘The Man’….or you ain’t ‘The Man.’ It’s exposure or NO exposure.

    It may be even more disheartening if Joe Montana II walks on water and arrives at IU….This is a time in rebuilding where losing one top prospect, while only having junk QBs on the bench, could be an even more nightmarish disaster than a sea of 3-star and 4-star guys at the position believing they have a shot to get on the field.

  26. Nobody wants a talented starting QB to go down to injury…..We must protect our Zander Twiggys and we build monstrous lineman to do so…But let’s be honest here….When you rest on the bench as a backup at OSU, you are only one fat Wisconsin lineman sneaking through the line and pancaking a starter away from getting cast into a limelight as sweet as stealing the lead role at a hit Broadway play.. At Indiana, that is simply not the case. The impatience must grow very heavy at a place like Indiana. This is more Off-Broadway at best. MSU comes to town…..OSU comes to town…? The devil may even enter your thoughts in hopes a Wisconsin fatty sneaks around from a blind side….Off the sideline you arrive in your white shoes at a rare opportunity when the theater house is actually sold out.

    Many are very weak at sports psychology when putting Indiana on comparison pedestals as a means to throw a coach under a bus.

  27. PO, HC and Y’all: Of course the difficulty in recruiting any players to a doormat such as IUFB needs no elaboration. But the silver lining to that situation is the potential to sign the H.S. QB, maybe a diamond in the rough or not, who worries that even though name programs are recruiting him, he’s worried that he’ll ride the bench at OSU, So. Cal, wherever, so why not IUFB? And Wilson is apparently not closing that sale.

    Wilson’s great talent as an offensive mind really seems to be as a fantastic Xs and Os guy. I recall watching games where IU gained maybe 200 yds. rushing in a game, most of which came on two or three plays. All that standing around in the offensive “huddle,” looking to the sideline at those weird signboards of seemingly random images gave the coaches a cahnce to dope out the opponent’s defense and call the right number for that particular mismatch on that particular play which would let a ballcarrier gallop or a receiver break open and loose. “We have sixty-odd plays a game in which to take it to the end zone, and if fifty of them flop but the other ten are bonanzas, that means we can win” seems to be the KW philosophy.

    Maybe I’m way off base here, but if not then it’s no leap to conclude that developing/coaching/managing QB’s is not Wilson’s strong suit.

  28. You don’t worry about riding the bench at OSU……The guy one ahead will exit to the next level faster than the 24 hour flu…And if there is an injury, you are cast to the light of a hit Broadway play…not a ‘doormat.’
    Then again, with opportunity comes very big expectations. There is very little room for error at Indiana(victories live in the narrows of few opportunities stacked against improbable odds and low munitions). But at a place like OSU, there is so much room for error, there is little room for patience.

    Wow…Six years in and we’re already talking of “silver linings” at IU Football……? That’s a gold rush in itself and a testament to the change in mindset Wilson has subconsciously projected upon hopelessness. We already have silver linings…? Hell, that ain’t so bad in six years…For decades we were Gilligan’s Island without Ginger and Mary Ann.. Please, no getting off the island jokes…

  29. H4h, a Gilligan’ Island reference for the football team… I bite, this is the year they need to add Ginger and Mary Ann to the crew. Last year was fun to see the big boys squirm so much playing IU but now IU needs to pull off a couple of big games along with all the ones they should win. They need to do it now as Maryland and Rutgers are going to turn their teams around soon with all the 4 and 5 star talent in their states.

    It would be great to have a year that could get fans from doubting IUFB can do it. It would be nice going into season knowing IU would win 9 or 10 games and in a special year 11 or 12 games. Yes it is time for Mary Ann and Ginger to join the crew and have IUFB quit being pretenders on Gilligan’s Island IE B!G East.

  30. H4H- good point about OSU 2d stringers not being 2d string for long sometimes.

    v13- On average, Maryland and New Jersey probably have the same amount of HS talent now and the next few years as they have had in the past. Don’t see any particular urgency for IUFB other than the usual that I’M TIRED OF THIS LOSING, WIN TODAY! Oh, wait, that’s been used before.

    Ginger and Mary Ann would be welcome in any huddle, but probably a B1G distraction. Send ’em to Columbus.

  31. ‘Why didn’t ‘The Skipper’ and Gilligan plot together to dispose of Mr. & Mrs. Howell and ‘The Professor? Make it look like an accident ….Maybe it was some bad fish that Gilligan improperly prepared to do the trick? Maybe a freak coconut cluster falls from highest palm and just happens to find Professor standing underneath while explaining the composition of uncharted desert isle sand to the Howell’s…? Skipper finally gets to hook up with Ginger….Gilligan and Mary Ann by default…..Silver linings are so boring on an island. It’s difficult to live without doubt of IU Football when we’ve been hearing these tales of getting off the island since the days many of us sat in front of TVs with knobs and rabbit ears….and a new show named Gilligan’s Island.
    Too…too many seasons of being the S.S. Minnow of the conference. We have lived many a failed year and HUT!-HUT!’s while retreated in our huts…We’ve been talking of sliver linings long enough to turn Skipper in into a Jabba the Hutt of his own hut . We have seen Ginger go on social security….Mary Ann is now getting dialysis treatments ….The Howell’s have long ago gone to that hammock in the stars. The Professor is giving his last speech as senior advisor at the Hut Institute….Gilligan, bless his heart, founded Facebook,

  32. I don’t know guys….?…..I’m beginning to see it. Just sit right back and you’ll hear a tale

  33. vesuvius, I love your optimism, but worry that you are setting yourself up for a major disappointment when you express hope that IU will win nine or more games this year. I would love it if you were right, but I don’t think that’s possible this season. I believe that at most, IU can win seven games this season, with a six & six regular season and then a victory in another minor bowl game. Here’s why I say that:

    The schedule: after going 3 – 0 to start, IU plays MSU and OSU in back-to-back games. We won’t beat either of those teams this season. We have a chance against Nebraska, but it will be tough coming off the two previous games. After Nebraska, we’re 3-3. Then we can win two of the next three (losing to NW in Evanston). So, we’d be 5-4 going into the Penn State game, which we lose. We’re not going to beat Michigan in Ann Arbor this year, so we get our sixth win by defeating Purdue in Bloomington. IU produces a winning season by getting its first bowl game victory in decades.

    The defense: Allen is a major upgrade at DC, but he still does not have the horses. IU is too young and too undersized to stop the power-running programs, and the DB will be improved, but still vulnerable to a solid passing attack.

    A new QB: As good as he may be, Lagow is new to Wilson’s complex offense. He’s not going to be efficient enough to win shoot-outs against teams like MSU, OSU, PSU or Michigan. And you have to beat one of these teams if you’re going to win more than seven games this season.

    Northwestern and Nebraska are the wild card games. We have a chance to beat one of both of those teams and earn an invite to a more prestigious bowl game. But I think IU is another year away from producing 8 or more wins. But I hope you’re right and that I am wrong.

  34. v13- You da man. Don’t allow them to sell your knowledge short. I love your outlook because it comes from a thorough source of knowledge about the game. Don’t worry about these kids causing trouble in the backseats of your classroom…Some actually prefer failure…Wilson does not live up to some ideal/false image they construct in their own lives…He is genuine….heaven forbid…He is not of the clown act variety that you can to tell to ‘sit’ or ‘stay’ …or ‘rollover’.. Wilson is the man. He is a confident man with no need of false pretense. You know it . I know it.
    He’s the man for IU’s football future because his knowledge is too strong to be manipulated by insiders and lawyers at IU more concerned with having their hand in the till than winning.

  35. How could anyone set themselves up for “major disappointment” as it pertains to IU Football…? There is no level or dose of optimism that could serve as a cure for 40 years of downers. You could take straight cocaine optimism for three seasons….and never get anywhere near back to the bottom of losing withdrawal. Pump me with all the optimism you’d like, v13…If they ain’t immune, you’ve located those not IU football fans.

  36. It would be great to have a year that could get fans from doubting IUFB can do it. It would be nice going into season knowing IU would win 9 or 10 games and in a special year 11 or 12 games.

    I believe that was intended as a visionary outlook …It wasn’t a prediction. It’s a trust in Wilson’s no-nonsense approach to soon take us to a day when getting high on doubt wasn’t the prescribed dosage for yearly disappointment. I’m pretty sure it wasn’t aimed at this season…But I do think v13 is very in touch with the energy being charged into the system…He knows lightning is soon to strike..and it may just come sooner than even the most astute follower of the program realizes.

  37. H4H, you are right about my comment being an outlook in the future but I could make a case for IUFB to win 13 games this year [not likely to happen but with the right breaks?????]. Po H4H nailed it that I was saying if the coming years IU gets to the point that fans can expect then we will fill the stadium.

    This year Po 9 wins would be hard to get but possible. Remember I took a 4-7 team that was last in the conference and won the 4A State Championship at 12-2 the next year so I believe it is possible as no one believed we could do what we did. As far as beating MSU, OSU, PSU, and UM will be about Patrick playing and as good as the coaches have claimed. If IUFB has a RB better than Howard to go with all the other weapons and coach Allen does his magic then who knows how good the team can do. I agree with you that it isn’t likely to happen but just as NW turned around last year when no one thought they would then IU can have a much better season that others think. Soon we won’t be hoping and dealing with the reality of this year – Go Hoosiers.

  38. Po You certainly prove the adage “you can lead a horse to water but you cannot make him drink”. But it does not change the facts CC was a QB before he ever hit IU and never played a down of LB until the Spring of 2015. No program even with the fortunes of OSU can prepare for losing 3 starting QB’s. You cannot manage anyone who wants a chance to play somewhere else. There is not as big a need of top flight QB’s when you have an elite QB coach such as Wilson. He proved how elite at OU and Sudfeld is his proof at IU.

    V13, I strongly believe IU can attain 8 W’s without the need of a miracle or major upset occurring. With only reasonable improvement by the D and a balanced offense the 5 games from October 15 through November 12th are and will be considered lower hanging branches. By that time of the season without injuries crippling a particular position the O and the D will be confident and motivated by Wilson’s and Allen’s prep and plans for Saturdays. I hold great confidence Allen and Hagan add much better capability breaking down film than who they each replaced. For me it comes down to these 2 things: even with only a small improvement on D it will bring an additional win and the addition of Hagan and Allen to the staff brings a 2nd win.

  39. Nothing like having 3 national contenders on your schedule…Analyst on.Fox College Sports(something I don’t normally watch, but just happened to hit while spinning through channels)already predicts Michigan as a Final Four team. Downside: We have Michigan, MSU, and OSU on our schedule. Upside: We have Michigan, MSU, and OSU on our schedule. We could shock the world….Wilson could be proven as a coach who took a program from the depths of a hopeless coma to unprecedented restored vitality and hope….Could one imagine what that would do to recruiting…? I can’t stand any of the Harbaughs….Jim sucked it up big time on the Bears. There will be a day when the expertise and offensive inventiveness of Wilson will embarrass the overrated blowbag…I hope this is the year.

  40. And please keep Harbaugh out of McCracken….Anyone with a brain can see this is rubbing dirt our football faces….Bring him to McCracken after we spank their asses in football and basketball. Better yet…Take Crean to a Michigan football game the week after Wilson and our Hoosiers takes them down.

  41. The more I look at our schedule, the more I believe everything hinges on the BIG opener against MSU. It’s a must win. And if there’s any game presenting best odds to catch an opportunity for an upset, it is this one. I like Wilson a ton…But I also know the doubters who want him out(and they want him out for more reasons than they’ll ever admit). OSU on the road will be beyond difficult….If we don’t win against MSU, there is the likelihood of being 0-2 in the conference with Nebraska up next…The Nebraska game will then come with much more pressure and much less room for error than the opener against MSU.
    Bottom line: Wilson’s future hinges against MSU on October 1st. The stadium will be full for a home opener against this caliber of a team. With the way the rest of the schedule sets up, it’s simply imperative to pull the upset(and likely the most opportune time to do so when all things more equal before powerhouses truly find their stride).

  42. Wow…I see the Washington Huskies are ranked #18 by CBSSPORTS.com..
    That probably makes SeaHawskies Tom pumped ….

  43. HC, I agree 8 wins just is a matter of the offense performing as usual and the defense showing some improvement no miracles needed. Like you, I believe the film breakdown will be done much better this year with the information getting to the players in a much better way. Based on comments from the offensive coaches and the defensive players our defense will be sounder and in better position to make plays.

    H4H, I dream of getting back to 1987 and 1988 success when UM and OSU not only feared playing IU [I think they now fear playing IU] but also seeing IU defeat them on the field. This could be the year but if not I hope it is a year that shows IU will be back there in the next couple of seasons.

  44. Like davis said on another thread a day or two ago….One game at a time. Don’t take FSU lightly…Don’t take anyone lightly.
    I do get a bit of those old thoughts of doubts creep in when we talk too much of lofty predictions/expectations as it pertains to a win-loss record I’ve already heard various analysts talking of a mix of teams below OSU, MSU, and Michigan that could potentially rise/surprise and enter the cream-on-top crowd of the conference. Unfortunately, I have yet to hear an analyst put Indiana into any of those second tier groups. I heard the names Minnesota, Iowa, Nebraska….mentioned I’ve heard how Illinois should improve under Lovie Smith.. Every year Penn State rebounds from its despicable recent history(a school that should have received a 10 year ban minimum from ANY bowl game participation) adds more challenges and more top tier teams to our schedule.
    Given the obvious competition from national champ contenders in our conference…..along with the improvement most teams experience via preparing and playing against those top contenders, Indiana is continually trying to move up an improvement graph with an ever-steepening slope to get there.
    Better prep in film rooms…?Coaches with stronger commitments to details..? .”Trust” claimed as something to be at the core of a mission rather than just casually or flippantly gulped from logos like a splash of Gatorade during a timeout..?
    But there still is a talent curve here, guys….And there is the fear of the same old excuse of another “bridge year”(I just stole that from our great basketball contributor from the state of Maine, Geoff)….Always the echoing voices of past excuses bombarding my brain: “But we had injuries…But we had a new defensive coaching team with new schemes to learn..But we graduated our starting QB…But we lost our receiving core…But two top performers went to the NFL…But we can’t recruit because we can’t fill seats on Saturday….But this…but that…but this…but that”….I just hope it’s not another season of every qualifying “but” to put out the flames of far too much in hype. We shouldn’t be about hype or expectations. We should be about one game at a time.
    And until we truly get into the beef of the season, win a must game against MSU(oops..I’m a walking contradiction…I’m already getting ahead of myself because all competition should all be seen as “one game at a time,” play-your-guts-out, contests), all the lofty cannon fire into an empty field is merely the victory of fireworks shows before troops ever engage.
    Isn’t 40 years of cleaning basements enough to tire anyone to tire of the marketing, promises, qualifiers, and cheap predictions of getting to the top floor. It would be nice if IU Football could be an escape from the empty reality, broken promises, and the short side of the mop broom that most face in the “haves” . vs. “have nots” world of a corporate dominated America. Until IU Football proves more than another year of a sell job from the top brass…..we are merely playing to a very poor existence amongst many rich teams. And does the elite class earning millions upon millions in top positions of our sports programs truly relate to how losing infects the soul when their own bank accounts are still overflowing after each dismal, letdown, year? .

  45. oops..

    Isn’t 40 years of cleaning basements enough to tire anyone of the marketing, promises, qualifiers, and cheap predictions of getting to the top floor?

    One game at a time. Anything else is ‘Pyrotechnics Fred” getting into your head.

  46. oops…Holy crap…I almost put FSU on our schedule. Correction: FIU!..Florida International University(where Isiah Thomas took an extended vacation).

  47. H4H, you and Seahawk Tom are absolutely right that the season is one game at a time. The season that gives me hope was a classic example of taking one game at a time. Yes we finished 12-2 4A State Champions but we could have easily lost the first game of the sectional against Bellmont. We were down in the 4th quarter 7-12 before winning 16-12 after Bellmont had all the momentum in the second half. Our team wasn’t done though as the Regional against DeKalb had us down 0-12 at half time and only 36 yards offense. We got into the 4th quarter still down 0-12 but able to move the ball. with 4:32 to go we scored making it 6-12. One defensive stop and a blocked punt tied the score leading to OT. We won 18-12 and had a trip to Hobart the following week. To show we could do more we got behind 0-21 after three drives. We finally got on the board with a 55 yard run that led to a KO return where we created a take away that we recovered making it 14-21. The second half we scored after going for it on 4th and 2 at our 32 yd line. We turned it into a drive that tied the score 21-21. The final drive came after stopping Hobart on 4th and 1 at our 12 yd line. We made that drive to win and go to the State Championship which we won easily. I give this history to illustrate how seasons turn on a play here or there and often games are won due to talent plus mental toughness.

    IU’s season is no different and how the team answers their challenge will determine if they can win 10 or more games or struggle to win 6. Yes talent is a factor but not the most important factor. I won’t deny the incredible talent some of our players had but these players were on the 4-7 team a year earlier. I am hoping this year is when the “reasons” are not needed and we can celebrate a special season for IUFB. It all starts with the FIU game and there will be plays and series that will determine if IU wins soundly or FIU gets to stay in the game until the end. H4H, I agree that MSU is the key to how the B1G season can go for IU. It is a win we need to have a successful season. By the way last time we played OSU at their stadium we had an offense that couldn’t pass the ball, Zander at QB, but Coleman ran for more than 200 yds. IU had OSU in a tough ball game until the 4th quarter. Last year we played OSU to the end despite OSU having a team many thought could win the National Championship. IUFB is going to have many situations through out the season that will determine how their season finishes.

  48. My entire future as a football player hinged in a JV game against Hobart….At least that’s my story…and I’m sticking with it. One wrong decision to cut outside instead of inside ….resulted in my spectacular pick ending in getting knocked out of bounds instead of a heroic galloping of forty more yards to a TD(I had one man to beat along the sideline…I was a d-back and had anticipated the opposing QB the entire way and made my interception while in full stride)….The Hobart Brickies….Back in the day, they were the team ruling the Duneland Conference…Those suckers were big and they hit hard. We ended up losing in a very tight game. My shot for a heroic TD interception against the best team in the conference washed away at sea….

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