Scoop Talk: IU lets its guard down — again


  1. Same story with this team. Doesn’t matter how hard you play. You’re not going to beat the #2 team in the country only hitting 3 three’s and making only 59% of your free-throws.

    And Happy Birthday, Mike!

  2. So true Double D….and at this point in the season its more than just “confidence” …there is some BAD mechanics that should have been corrected a year or so ago; but with a new coach he has to pick his “fights” and unfortunately FT’s lose ,……but I am happy AND proud of the defensive effort and improvement on offense efficiency .

  3. Harvard for Hillbillies says:
    November 9, 2017 at 2:23 pm

    The 3-pt. line continues to influence the game more than anything else. Easy points….

    Hoosiers will suffer without true perimeter threats.

    Saw it coming three months ago….Can Kyle Guy shoot? Yes. Can Carter Skaggs shoot? Yes. Can Trevor Bluiett shoot? Yes. Can Bryson Scott shoot the ball? Yes. Can Brent Scott shoot the ball? Yes. And so on…and so on…and so on. Most Indiana kids can shoot the ball. Quit recruiting Indiana and you quit recruiting shooters.
    If you primarily recruit raw athleticism and phenoms who may(huge emphasis on “may”) finally learn to shoot the ball after 3 years of college and 4 years in the NBA? Then have reunions for individuals…

    Anyone else catch the highlight of Ambi-Stan Robinson hitting the buzzer-beater for Rhode Island? Even a broken jump shot is right twice a day.

  4. RJ has improved…but it just ain’t enough.

    Recently heard an interview with a very successful college basketball coach(during one of Don Fischers pregame interviews). Paraphrasing a bit here…”No matter how I mix my rotations during a game, I always like to keep at least three shooters on the floor.”

    We don’t have three on our entire roster.

  5. DD is exactly right. There have been a lot of really good IU teams that would have lost a lot of games hitting only three 3-point shots and shooting 59% from the FT line. The shooting skills are just not there with this group of players, and the other attributes they possess won’t make up for that huge deficiency.

  6. Got to give the guys credit – no giving up. If Morgan keeps his game up for the rest of the season I don’t think we will have him next year. Remember an interview where he said he talks to OG about every day, who is enjoying the NBA. Maybe the Vic comment yesterday, something about the most fun playing ball is during college will encourage him to hang around another year.

    What was the story on Green? 4 minutes, one missed shot and one turnover. Doghouse? Love watching McRoberts, the guy never stopped and is everywhere.

  7. I doubt Morgan will be drafted in the first round. Unless he will complete his degree by the end of this semester or is close, it would not be wise for him to depart after this season. He needs another year of strong performance without injury to have a chance at getting drafted in the first round.

    1. Po, Juwan has done more on the court than Anunoby ever thought about. I realize that he was drafted on potential but he only started a small handful of games as a college player. Morgan has put together an impressive body of work in comparison.

      I hope he stays, too, but I think he will have options.

  8. Morgan maybe having his best showing this year, bring in the new players and a possible Romeo Langford coming, and Morgan won’t be the main scoring option next season and this year is his time in the spotlight.

    1. If you think Romeo will come in and surpass what Juwan has been doing this season you are being far, far from realistic. Juwan has been one of the best 4 or 5 players in the B1G in almost every category (free throws…cough…cough).

      I really hope Romeo comes here but he will complement Juwan (if he doesn’t leave for the NBA)…not the other way around.

      1. You bet imagine RL with a real PG having Smith and Davis with another years maturity would make Morgan 1 of the 10 most dangerous scorers in the country. IU would be cookin.

  9. I love the kid, but it just does not seem that his skills fit the NBA game. But what do I know about the NBA? I never watch the games for more than ten seconds as I flip through the channels. My guess is that Morgan will allow himself to be evaluated and then come back for his senior season. He’s a very good player on a bad team. I just don’t think that’s going to entice too many NBA GMs to draft him.

    1. I don’t look at what he’s doing in isolation. Bonzie Colson was on everyone’s short list for player of the year. Juwan outplayed him and the Hoosiers won. Sunday he outplayed two guys who were half a foot taller than him and almost upset the #2 team in the country.

      I’m with you. I’m no NBA talent evaluator but Juwan is a stud. Anunoby was a lottery pick and, let’s face it, he did nothing in college.

      His upward trajectory is nearly off the charts. I think he’ll make a living doing this.

      But, I still hope he stay. We’ll could have a helluva team if Romeo signs and Juwan stays.

  10. No argument from me, Chet. But from I’ve read and been told, the NBA drafts on potential, not on achievement in college.

  11. What will kill Morgan’s chances of getting drafted is no big stage/NCAA tournament.

    Do any of you know that Russell Westbrook almost didn’t get a scholarship offer from USC? He was only given a look(was never going to be offered originally) because another recruit decommitted.

    It’s not so unusual for guys to go from questionable college picks to superstar status. College ball is so different ….It’s a team game. It’s where savvy and early maturation of skills brings banners. It restricts some phenoms from putting their full athleticism on display. It’s like putting Mark Spitz on a water polo team.

    Many phenomenal college players who will never sniff the NBA level(e.g. Matt Howard).

    1. Right.

      That’s why Mitch McGary is a star and no one ever heard of Julius Irving or Pete Maravich. Because they never played on the big stage.

      NBA scouts don’t pay any attention until the tourney.

    2. BTW, Matt Howard didn’t go unnoticed. He played for the Phoenix Suns in the Summer League. He just wasn’t NBA material.

      1. Note to Chet:

        A. You’re responding. Have some discipline in your life. You’re not supposed to respond.
        B. I would love to immediately respond to your snide. My creative juices have been seized by the moderator. I must play every comment safe though I’d love nothing more than to drown you in your same level of snide.
        C. It just doesn’t matter. You win every one of these assaults because you win by default of the shot clock. It looks like I’m ducking you because I must wait hours before a decision is made to place..or not place my comment into a thread.
        D. Do you know any of this, Mr. Chet? And you twist it to the Scoop crowd as if I have ‘favored status?’ Having zero freedom to creatively respond in a timely fashion to your narcissistic mouth full of snide sure sounds like favored status to me.

  12. Gang,

    I think we have to start with being honest with ourselves about the status of the program. For all practical purposes IUBB has been dysfunctional for a little over twenty years. For the first time since the early 90’s IUBB has a chance to become functional again, but it won’t happen overnight. I think Coach Miller is getting just about as much as you can with a roster full of ill fitting parts. Hopefully an influx of new talent will make a difference.

    I agree with the sentiment regarding shooting as this is about the worst shooting IU team I think I have ever seen. JM should stay another year and prove this year’s success is not a fluke. For the most part about half of the roster needs to go at year end, but there are some useful role players and those who could develop into some usefulness. It is very unfortunate the current program is having to make do this year with the hand it has been dealt from the past.

  13. I would like to see JM stay and work on his outside shot more….Archie then could start Morgan at the #4 slot with Davis in middle. Justin Smith on other forward with Clayton Moore and Jake Forrester coming off bench. I’m not so sure RL comes to Bloomington. I think he goes to Kansas. He has said he wants to make it to NCAA tournament before 1 and done…Vandy has his interest as well but they will have an extremely young team full “one and dones” and next year they may not make it into big dance.

    1. Vandy hasn’t won their conference in 25 years and only 3 times ever. They lost their single tourney game to Northwestern…their only win ever.

      The Vandy trophy case is the size of case of beer. If he has one shot at going to the Big Dance he should go to a school that has won something.

  14. TJ, I always have agreed with your posts but disagree on this. I’d like Juwan to make his money immediately and develop in the G League or whatever. He cannot be having ‘fun’ here.

    As for Justin Smith (#3), he had a dunk at a critical time in the Purdue game and instead of going for the bucket felt compelled to tomahawk it (and missed it). Knowing one’s place in the TEAM is important and I don’t think he gets it (and am not optimistic he ever will).

    As for those other clowns riding the bench who obviously don’t take warming up seriously…they detract from any possible “team concept” this group might have been able to develop. Adios!

    Start fresh with all new players who buy into Archie’s system. 3-4 years.

  15. Hey Rock, I think you’re comment about Justin Smith was way too harsh and over the top. Back in 1980, a freshman guard for IU made a steal, went down and attempted a slam dunk, but missed it. His coach benched him. I don’t believe he attempted another slam dunk for the remainder of his time at IU. But he did lead the Hoosiers to a National Championship the following season. The player’s name was Isiah Thomas and his coach was Bob Knight. You don’t flush a talented freshman, especially one who can dunk like Smith, because he makes a mistake. If he continues to develop, Smith will be a major contributor to IU over the next three years.

  16. Agree. Justin Smith has a wonderful skill set. He’s a guy who can find the seams in the paint…Moves exceptionally well for his size. A bit smaller, but reminds me a lot of Landon Turner…..Makes use of the baseline and has enormous potential. When you tap into the Chicago market, you rarely go wrong. It’s absolutely amazing that Crean only landed one Chicago recruit in his nine years at IU…..Maybe he only took two trips…? One for Wade…One for Smith.

  17. OK! Let’s see about that. I hope you are right, but have my doubts. And I remember that play and believe that Isiah learned an excellent lesson…and yes, that magical run (especially the game vs. Maryland) was very, very special. The TEAM came together and Landon Turner was the turning point…a great, great player.

  18. Our TEAM did not need Justin Smith to make a fancy dunk, our TEAM at that specific point in that possession game, needed Justin Smith to make a dunk (to score).

    It is not Justin’s TIME to be a showman…it is Juwan’s time and the fact that Justin Smith does not understand his role is part of the problem. He’s most certainly not the only one, of course.

    Robert Johnson will have “a nice career” here at IU but what I remember most is his repeated looking into the post and trying to decide whether he can make a pass to the big man (Thomas Bryant, etc.etc.etc.) Adios!

    1. after watching this game and the EFFORT tonight…I agree that Juwan will leave to enter the NBA…at least put his name in draft. Hopefully next years incoming can shoot the ball. its one thing to be a scorer its totally different to be a Shooter.

  19. I think I would have heard if we have a legit big man coming in next season….but just in case I missed the news….Do we have a premier 4 or 5 star post player coming in?
    If Juwan stays, I think we can still be somewhat effective though undersized. There are some monstrous and highly skilled post players in the college game this year. Other than the terrible night for our starting guards and the continued inexplicable atrocious free throw shooting, the lack of a fly swatter and intimidating/stopping force in the paint really hurt us against OSU. It will continue to hurt us in the future. No “style” of play can defend the paint. Double teams work to an extent, but eventually you get burned. We get burned on backcuts a ton….Morgan gets pulled away. Game over.

    Juwan makes amazing use of his offensive skills and is often a magician around the hoop to merely get a shot up on the glass….but he needs more help inside.
    Without a legit post presence and some depth in the paint, I really don’t see Langford as the panacea for the current woes. Langford is very lanky. He won’t transform and get the NBA body until he matures and gets a few years in the NBA training/weight rooms(e.g. Oladipo, Ingram, etc). He’ll be a one-and-done and drafted very high merely based on his “upside.” But unless we have some inside dominance, his value will be diminished on a team missing a vital component.

    I honestly believe much of our shooting woes are a function of the added pressure in not having a fully balanced attack. Morgan can never get anything easy inside….Easy points take pressure of your guards. Shooting the ball goes far beyond mechanics….This is becoming mental bricking before a shot leaves the hands….Every look at the rim is jacked up in importance. Every shot begins to feel like a ‘must make’…And when Morgan is in foul trouble or getting a brief rest ….the options/balanced attack drops more off the cliff.

    Just my opinion….but I think “everything hinges” far more on finding a legit big than on Langford. Justin Smith’s game becomes far more dangerous with some more size inside. McRoberts becomes even a greater havoc creator. Guards don’t have the crushing pressure of every perimeter shot being a must.

  20. In summation…It’s very unfair to throw any particular player under the bus when we lack a truly balanced attack (primarily missing one elite level point guard …and a much bigger force inside).
    Crean had the benefit of point guards and shooting guards with very high b-ball IQ’s(Hulls and Ferrell). He had an added deep threat in Watford and Roth(earlier years)….He had clamp down defenders in Remy. He had inside dominance in Cody.
    He had more highly skilled ‘short stays’ and transfers who added extra inside depth(Fischer, Vonleh, Holt, Devin Davis, Beilfeldt). But it was mostly the post presence in Zeller that opened up the floor and took pressure off other dynamics/threats. It’s not just about points….Morgan may find more points than Zeller. Morgan may be a craftier player around the basket. But Morgan does not command the presence to make defenses collapse for our wings/guards ..nor does he have near the same level of rim protection on defense.

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