Anonymous Big Ten coaches discuss Indiana

Athlon published its annual collection of anonymous team assessments from Big Ten coaches on Tuesday.

A sampling from the Indiana portion:

“There are a lot of young guys on that team that are going to put up some really good numbers over the next couple of years. It’s not just Ramsey. TB (Morgan) Ellison is a big kid who runs with an attitude, and that quick WR (Whop) Philyor is a player. A solid nucleus of young guys will be fun to watch, and brutal to deal with if you’re a defensive coach in the league.”

Click here to read the rest.

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80 comments

  1. “”Tom Allen is a good man. A no-nonsense coach stuck in a football program whose administration doesn’t care enough to want to get better. They’ve made some changes in the facilities, but that’s almost because they have to. You can’t sit around while everyone else does it, and sit on that (Big Ten) network money.”

    I would love to be a fly on the wall in the offices of Fred Glass and Michael McRobbie when they read that comment! That’s going to hurt, because the truth always hurts. But make no mistake about it, that’s the reputation IU’s Administration has earned, dating back several decades. And that’s the perception that affects IU’s ability to recruit, attract proven head coaches and fill Memorial Stadium for home games. I can just hear other Big Ten coaches talking to a recruit coveted by IU; “Why would you want to go to IU when the school’s Administration does not care about football?” Etc., etc.

    And really, if The Hoosier Nation does not care enough to fill the stadium and/or apply pressure to IU’s Administration, then why should those administrators do anything but the minimum?

    1. Pretty much sums it up for the entire IUFB history. Wanting to be a basketball only school only works if you are in the Big East.

      Interesting they think the offense is going to be good this year. What do they see that we are maybe not?

  2. Any comments on the other Big Ten teams ? Maybe all of the other Big Ten teams have some positive comments. Like a baby contest, all of the babies are beautiful.

    1. There were some brutal assessments of other programs, the one for Illinois was pretty rough.

      1. Although I thought many of the comments were on target. Especially pertinent about Lovie and Ferentz.

  3. So then what is the answer for football success at IU? How do you get fans from the parking lots into Memorial Stadium?

    Regarding this year’s team…I think IU will be good. East division makes it tough but I think IU will go 6-6, but with s breakthrough win could be 7-5. But I’m usually optimistic.

  4. Would have loved to have heard anonymous comments about Crean while he was coach at Indiana…

    “Honestly, I think he’s one of the best in the country…”
    “Fred found a dandy….”
    “Index cards…index cards…and more index cards. If there’s an X and O, he’ll teach it.”
    “If this guy doesn’t become the most secure coach in the BigTen, there simply is no explanation.”
    “Much of MSU’s recent success tracks right back to Tom Crean.”
    “He was treated so poorly by the administration and fans alike. Nobody could fulfill the expectations placed upon his mighty shoulders.”

    Here’s what I know:
    a. Nobody is anonymous.
    b. When they are berating you, they are fearing you are getting better.
    c. When they are complimenting you, they are more than content with your lack of progression and the zero threat you pose to their program.

    IU Football must be getting better…

  5. wolfen, don’t recall seeing your posts before, but welcome to the small little group of Hoosier fans who comment on IU sports here at The Hoosier Sports Report.

    Attempts to answer the question you posed have been going on for many years! There are some who just don’t think it’s possible for IU to ever be a good football program. There are those who believe “IU is a basketball school” and that Hoosier fans just don’t care about football. Some people blame the messed up construction on Highway 37. My opinion is that IU’s Administration has, for decades, neglected and mismanaged the football program and as a result, IU Football is perceived to be a perpetual loser. It is a fact that until recently, football facilities have been sub-par. It’s also a fact that IU’s football coaching compensation is the lowest or second lowest in the Big Ten. Fred Glass doesn’t even try to hire experienced head coaches with a proven track record because, in my opinion, he or his boss don’t want to spend the money required to hire a proven head coach.

  6. A backhanded slam to Coach Allen. Facilities finally upgraded and Administration isn’t willing to step up. Administration can’t force attendance so the only way they can step up is to spend big money on a proven head coach. Not Tom, the really nice guy who is a good defensive coordinator.

  7. wolfen, feel free to opine as to what you think it’s going to take to fill Memorial Stadium for home games. And please remain optimistic. Remember, the Cubs finally won the World Series, so anything is possible.

    1. Actually I have followed IU football since the Rose Bowl in ‘68, I was 13 yrs old. Any momentum gained from Rose Bowl was lost when John Pont kicked numerous black players off the team in ‘70 resulting in few quality black athletes coming to IU. Lee Corso had an uphill row to hoe but achieved success in ‘79 with a Holiday Bowl win. I wonder how things would have been different if Bill Mallory had had the facilities upgrade during his tenure at IU. Of course, the passing of Terry Hoeppner caused another loss of any momentum previously achieved. IU has definitely been snake bitten at times.

      When IU had just OK teams they could put 45,000 in Memorial Stadium. I think it was in ‘78 that IU started the season against Univ of Washington, LSU, and Nebraska for preseason games. Wow!!

      Granted, Jerry Dinardo, Cam Cameron & Bill Lynch were “discount”coaches & perhaps the administration was happy to save on coaches salaries. I’ll buy into the notion that IU administration never went after a big time coach, or offered competitive salaries to football staff. That is a pity.

      I used to be a season ticket holder in the 70s & 80s, all three of my kids attended IU & we still get to about 4 home games each season. I’d love to see more full seats at home games … but I think it has to start with the team on the field and not so much if they sell beer inside the stadium.

      I love Tom Allen’s enthusiasm and I can’t help but think IU will do well this season. I’m hoping lightning strikes twice. I’m a huge Chicago Cubs fan, & God help me, I’m a huge IU football fan! If the Cubs can do it, why not IU?

      1. Yep, the Hoosiers beat LSU in ’78 with two 4th quarter TDs. The loud-mouth Tiger fan in front of me kept hollering, “Where’s y’alls lights in this stadium?” I told him it was too darn cold to play football at night in this part of the country. Not strictly true for Bloomington in Sept., but IUFB had the last laugh that Saturday afternoon.

        1. Oops, should of been “y’all’s” but we only use one apostrophe per word north of the Ohio.

    2. P-Dunker: I solved the problem of filling up Memorial Stadium 5 years ago: 1) rename the stadium for a great IU player; 2) require everyone to be a season ticket holder for basketball (it is ok to split the tickets for students and fans); 3) require everyone to buy 3 football tickets for each basketball ticket (17,200 X 3 = 51,600 = full house); 4) all other sports are free with first come, first seated policy (24 sports/1 team); 5) have a big tent outside for ticket holders to legally sell their tickets to the highest bidder (what is wrong wit fans making a profit?). Problem Solved!

  8. Still making comments about tom crean i see you people are so petty and small minded the guy was fired last year!!grow the hell up man this is a football topic and has zero to do with him damn.smh

    1. Yes, it’s relevant to bring basketball into this discussion because there were no anonymous comments from BigTen coaches when they were happy with the other half of our two major sports programs. This is not just a football topic…It’s a BigTen topic.
      And being BigTen members means one of them just happens to have a very close relationship to our former basketball coach. Do we know if some of the deepest criticisms could have been “fired” at Indiana from a certain Ann Arbor coach? He does appear in the picture part of this story.
      Do you think he might just have a bit of a slanted opinion after his brother-in-law was fired by Indiana.? There’s your relevance, genius.

  9. I see the same thing about IU’s offense this coming season. The offense should put up more points helping to win more games. IU does have good players at each position and should give defenses fits in stopping us. There are many reasons to think this could be a winning season. I had my doubts before getting the grad transfers but now I think a winning season is possible this year.

    1. V13,
      Like you and a few others, I am very cautiously optimistic about the offense for this year. As I posted on the Cartwright thread, oddly enough it may well boil down to how well the young defense develops.

  10. How many seasons has not the possibility of IU fb not having a winning season in the history of IU fb?
    It is interesting to read comments from those who are real (realistic IU fb fans) and those who claim to be IU football fans only to show their starved desire and frustrating IU football fan Disneyland existence.

  11. “Think about this: You’re a Michigan fan (and we all know the expectations of Michigan fans), and you’re not better than Ohio State or Penn State or Michigan State? You finish fourth in your division again, then what? Uh-oh.”

    I would be so very disappointed to see IU Football win a stunner in Ann Arbor one week before Thanksgiving….And just think of the mounting pressure on Harbaugh if IU’s transfer qb outplays the Michigan starter…? Now that’s something that would get the Michigan fans surely shaking their heads….Though IU Football is getting some recognition and minimal respect, is there not a bigger kiss of death for an opposing s0-called “top” coach of the dominant East than to lose on their home turf to Indiana? lol while also smh.

  12. Sometimes it’s even more difficult to pull an upset as a notorious “bottom-dweller” of the conference because of the repercussions any opposing top coach of a very respected BigTen program would face.
    Michigan likely prepares with more fire in their belly for Indiana than Penn St. or OSU.

    People don’t have a lot of expectations for Indiana Football….True. Opposing coaches/programs realize such a fact and know the dangers of losing to a program forever mocked and slighted. I would argue that being a bottom-dweller is even a greater challenge because we have about three programs in our conference which could hardly live past the insult(and the votes they’ll lose for national playoff/ bowl recognition) of going down to the Hoosiers.

    1. Okay H4H,
      I’m going to give you a path back in from the weeds again. I have every reason to believe you are correct in the opposing coaches and schools perspective of losing the IU. I remember a day many years ago when a Mallory coached IU defeated OSU for the 1st time in something like 38 years. What was telling was the response from I believe it was then OSU coach Earl Bruce, calling the loss “the darkest day in OSU football history.” Best part about it was, if I remember right it was at OSU, and IU turned around and beat them again in Bloomington like a drum the next year!

      As for the Crean vendetta, I will give it credence in only as it relates to the IU administration which tolerated his tenure longer than needed. They did finally come around to making the necessary change and if Archie turns out to lead IU back to the promised land, it will be fortuitous timing indeed. If the timing had been wrong might not have got him. Not saying another coach might not have done the same thing, but we’ll never know. I promise to hold off on feeding you any crow until we see whether or not Archie is able to bring IU all the way back and how the other potential candidates careers develop.

  13. There’s not only the breakthrough psychology needed in extinguishing the given assumption of being forever labeled a “loser”…..There’s the psychology of the inevitable mockery that will come to your top opponents for losing to the biggest known “loser” moniker you wear.
    IU Football plays against many psychological barriers….in addition to the ever-present talent/recruiting challenges.

  14. 247 sports has IU at 3-9. Last 4 years of recruiting rankings puts IU at 4-8. Punt John Punt does some pretty heavy statistical analysis and has IU either 5-7 or 6-6. My hope is that the 3 grad transfers add enough talent to get IU to over-achieve with 6 wins. I don’t see more with this schedule. Ball State, FIU and Rutgers – wins. Virginia, Maryland- leaning win. Minnesota, and Purdue- toss ups, Iowa- leaning loss. MSU, PSU, Michigan and OSU- losses.

  15. Where to begin to respond?
    1. 123, it all depends on the quality of QB play. If IU is to go 6-6, realistically the best we can hope for, our quarterbacks must be successful.
    2. I don’t know of anyone who does not like, admire, support or root for T.A. But that aside, he is, once again, a man hired to lead IU Football, who had never been a college head coach before getting the job. At the very least, we have to anticipate that it will take a few years to go through the learning curve associated with being a head coach. Most men get to do that while coaching at a mid-major program. T.A. must do it competing in arguably the most competitive division of the most competitive conference in college football. And no one is going to show any mercy to him just because he’s a good guy.
    3. Wolfen, I too became a Hoosier Football fan in 1967/68. Harry Gonzo, John Isenbarger, Terry Cole and Jade Butcher were my childhood heroes. While we have been, to an extent, “snake bitten” at times since those glory days, we must also acknowledge that IU’s Administration failed to take advantage of periods of momentum created by coaches like Pont, Corso, Mallory and Hep. Really, really stupid decisions made by incompetent administrators forfeited the momentum created by those coaches. Here are just a few: Chronic neglect of football facilities for decades, even after a string of winning seasons., hiring Cameron to replace Mallory was idiotic. Giving Lynch a contract the year after Hep died was an even dumber decision and set IU Football back a decade. Consciously deciding to have the lowest or second lowest coaching compensation in the Big Ten reinforces the narrative and sends a message throughout the football coaching fraternity. I could go on and on.
    4. A person must really be deranged to use this discussion in order to bash Tom Crean. Just raising that dead topic on a football thread suggests some serious mental abnormalities. And why does anyone respond to such lunacy, knowing that it only reinforces the behavior.

    1. Po,
      You know I can’t let you get away with a couple of those statements. The rest I’m okay with.
      Point 2, Bill Snyder at Kansas State. Very similar resume to TA, except as a OC instead of a DC.
      As for the B1G east’s status, you gotta be kidding! As much as I hate to admit it, the SEC West is head shoulders tougher than any other division in college football. Everybody keeps getting mad that I say this and I don’t like it either, but the B1G is not the SEC and the SEC east is probably going to have a resurgence.

      1. Bill Snyder. Ok, that is one example over how many years of college football. How about 5-10 more?

        1. I don’t believe you need another example. He turned the 2nd worst program (Only thing in FB IU 1st) in college football history around.

          1. Okie Dokie. Don’t get me wrong I like our coach. He may indeed be that 2nd coach you can name out of hundreds before him that didn’t.

        2. hoosierinhawkeyeExile,
          Let me give you 3 more, would give you 4, but he had 1 year HC experience before at Toledo.
          Dabo Swinney, Kirby Smart, Lincoln Riley

          Po’s comment was no HC experience and I just gave you 3 of the 4 coaches in last year’s BCS.

          The 4th guy with 1 year experience, Nick Saban.

          Granted all these coaches had pretty good college experience, but having prior HC experience is no guarantee of success. Try a few of IU’s former coaches with prior HC experience and how it worked out.

          Like you, I have every reason to believe IU has a good coach if the breaks will fall his way, might be able to do something special. Fingers crossed.

      2. I’ve heard it was named the SEC because most of the so-called “student” athletes can’t read past the SECond grade level.

    2. Big surprise that the “grand a[Po]logist” would deny any possibility of Jim Harbaugh being the anonymous voice with deepest criticism of IU and its administration….Wow…that would be just completely unrelated to this topic? We fired a family member, a brother-in-law, of one of the most prominent football coaches in the BigTen.
      Didn’t it turn your stomach to see this prominent football coach in Assembly Hall smirking in delight at our ineptitude in football and the NCAA tournament(Michigan had been to three Final Fours during brother-in-law’s exhaustive stay at IU).
      Our last fired basketball coach is very tied to this topic….Along with kicking out the dud coach, I say its time to start kicking the anonymous ass of any twerp from Ann Arbor who very possibly had the very unkind words for Indiana.

      Nothing would delight me more….Funny how I was accused of being a Michigan fan. It seems like most of you are asleep at the wheel with regard to IU having family ties to Michigan and the conflicts of interest that could still remain. Like it or not, Tom Crean has a very relevant relationship to a prominent BigTen football program.
      Would it be a delight to kick some Wolverine butt one week before Thanksgiving?….not that I’m not already giving great thanks to IU and its administration finally seeing the light.
      Lastly, I fully support Archie Miller. There will be no crow. I have repeatedly said he is a huge upgrade and I like the fact he values defense and protecting possessions. Just the calmer demeanor, genuineness, and forthright interaction at podiums is a tremendous change in the positive direction for IU Basketball.

      Both programs moving in the right direction…..Leaders who respect the fans, are self-confident, and don’t pass the buck. Accountability rather than preaching and condescension is back at IU. It is a cornerstone of who we are.

  16. H4H, I am with you wanting IU to beat UM in Ann Arbor. Enough of being close, it is time to open that door by breaking it down. Taking down MSU and UM in the same season would be a great season then IUFB can work on getting the talent to beat OSU and PSU. On side note, Urban Meyer was just put on administrative leave and won’t be with the team when practice starts. The furor over coach Smith domestic abuse of his ex-wife is catching Meyer in the web.

    1. v13- I want IU Football to have their breakthrough. That being said, I find Harbaugh and Dantonio to be very irritating types(at press conferences/postgame interviews, etc)…Can’t really say exactly what it is….I just find them to be beyond bigger than their own britches. Would love nothing more than to have a season when we kick both Michigan teams in the chops.

      And can we really believe anything will happen to OSU…..Look how quickly all is forgotten with the hideous behavior at Penn State….or, more recently, Michigan State women’s gymnastics. There are programs that will be burned to the ground over 3-way calls to recruits….There are “big dollar programs” easily forgiven for truly evil deeds(sexual assaults and rape of children). We repeatedly find out just how many in sports with stellar reputations can turn out to be very sick predators….or someone who turns the other way to sick behavior. Cowards. And then we vilified Kelvin Sampson over text messages and 3-way calls? I just never understood it…..

  17. think;
    I believe I wrote “arguably.” But regardless, my point is that learning how to become a head coach while competing in the Big Ten’s East Division is extremely difficult, especially when you don’t have the best facilities, have the second-to-lowest coaching compensation budget in the conference, and lukewarm fan support.

    Bill Snyder is a good example of the exception. Snyder’s success at KSU is a minor miracle, but you have to remember that Snyder had over 20 years of experience, over half of which was as an OC for Power-5 conference programs. And Snyder was mentored by two Hall-of-Fame coaches (John McKay at USC and Hayden Frye at Iowa) before taking over as head coach at KSU. More than half of T.A.’s coaching experience was at the HS level, and before taking over at IU, he’d been a DC for a total of two seasons, with one of those being at South Florida, which is not a Power-5 Conference program. Nothing would please me more than if T.A. mirrors Bill Snyder’s success. But it is not accurate to say that the two men have “very similar resumes” before becoming head coaches.

    1. But it is not accurate to say that the two men have “very similar resumes” before becoming head coaches.

      Everyone begins with a rather thin resume….To resurrect IU Football could surely add many bullets and highlights to a young resume/work history. Somebody recently mentioned our 3-banner coach having very little notoriety/big time program experience before arriving at IU. No reason Tom Allen should be trivialized for lack of head coaching experience…There are the obvious known “proven winners” in the Rose Bowl garden…But there are also winners ready to flower with something to prove.

  18. Urban Meyer is placed on “paid Administrative Leave” while OSU investigates allegations that he knew about a former assistant coach being accused of domestic violence. Interestingly, “Offensive Coordinator Ryan Day will serve as acting head coach.” I thought Kevin Wilson was OSU’s OC? How many OCs does OSU have?

  19. PO, OSU had two OCs but coach Wilson was reassigned to game prep OC and Day was the game OC. This happened after the season as Wilson and Day were OCs during the season. I think this change came about because of the Iowa game and giving up on the run while giving up 4 int. Clearly Myer wasn’t comfortable with Wilson’s play calling but still liked his knowledge and play designs. I think it is telling that Wilson wasn’t named the interm HC nor as their DC. If Myer is gone then I think OSU will go outside for their coach in 2019.

  20. Sure are a lot of crickets on Scoop concerning the news surrounding Meyer and the OSU football program.
    Makes me wonder if a full Memorial stadium when playing Ohio State is because of Ohio residents traveling with their team…or if it’s due to mostly Indiana residents who are closet Buckeye fans.
    Meyer’s wife and nearly all the assistant coaches wives knew of the domestic violence committed by one of his coaches…? Wow…..The sick-ass behavior people will dance around to protect winning football. I never want to hear “THE” Ohio State Buckeyes again. The only “the” worth capitalization in Columbus is the “THE” preceding “COWARDS” turning a blind eye and the cowardly suggestions to impressionable young athletes to accept domestic violence as some sort of normal form of treatment to a spouse or loved one. It’s all out of control, folks. The “Big” Ten just got a lot smaller. Penn State, Michigan State, Ohio State…? I think they should all be forced to remove the name of the their respective states off their sports programs…The ‘state’ of their morals and integrity lives in the muck.

  21. And count me wrong in being critical of Fred Glass in removing Wilson…..It appears he found a home at OSU for a reason.

  22. OSU has two Coordinators with previous head-coaching experience, and neither were made “interim head coach.” Wilson and Greg Schiano, whose title is “Associate Head Coach,” now work for a guy who has never been a head coach at any level. I’ll bet that’s bruising some big egos today! It suggests that OSU wanted someone with absolutely no “baggage” to be the face of the program until Meyer’s status is resolved. One way or another, there are going to be a lot of changes to the coaching staff at OSU, starting in about six months.

    Anyone want to place odds on Meyer keeping his job at OSU? I’m wondering how much OSU will pay him to go away?

    1. I don’t see it. Meyer brought OSU back to the big kids’ table. The alumni would show up with pitchforks and torches if they fired him.

  23. According to news, the victim made her report to Mrs. Meyer in 2015. Three years ago. Standards were a lot different then. Not that they should have been, but they were. Today, were Meyer to be told what everyone is assuming he was told by his wife three years ago, we would rightly expect him to “do something.” I doubt there were any 2015 OSU policies or Ohio statutes that required a supervisor to “do something” based on what a supervisee’s wife told a supervisor’s wife. OSU will keep Meyer and there will be a lot of new policies on campus in 2019.

  24. It was o.k. to beat your wife three years ago…? Meyer should be fired and will be fired.

    1. No, it wasn’t OK three years ago, nor did I write/imply that. What’s changed is the degree of tolerance for wife-hitting. Which is now properly pegged at zero.

      1. Degree of tolerance for wife-hitting….? I hope there was never any tolerance for it. Isn’t assault a crime?
        I believe the “Me Too” movement brought to light the pervasiveness of sexual harassment, misogyny, intimidation and all forms of subjugation, abuses, and demeaning behavior against a woman(in the home, public spaces, workplace). It was a movement to rid the fears via sharing the stories and empowering the victims via a collective power to stop silence..

        God help us if there was ever any tolerance for any of it…Sure wasn’t any in the home I grew up. Nobody tolerates a beating or sexual harassment….nor should we ever tolerate anyone diminishing or trivializing the physical and psychological impact of cowards manipulating relationships or positions of power to exert such abuse(physical and mental).

        1. H4H, how can you “hope there never was any tolerance for wife-hitting?” It’s been tolerated for centuries! Which is the whole point of #metoo: to not tolerate it any more. Duh.

          1. Silence by someone fearing repercussions of coming forward is not “tolerance.” I see ‘Me Too’ as empowerment against living in fear(fear of losing job…fear of more abuse…fear of what might happen to children, etc).
            But once the silence is broken and the abuser is unveiled, I don’t see “tolerance” as part of any dialogue. Not saying it’s viewed differently in some households…but not in my world.

            It’s sort of like “tolerating” a cop shooting down an unarmed suspect in the back or senselessly beating someone who doesn’t pose a real threat. Do we now have less tolerance for it…or are we being stunned by finally seeing so many abuses of authority?

  25. Chet, I think you underestimate today’s culture and the impact of the MeToo movement. It’s open season for powerful/wealthy men, and Universities like OSU won’t risk tarnishing their
    “brand” by keeping a coach who has been convicted by the media as an “enabler” of men who physically abuse women.

    I’m not defending Meyer here, but unless he lied to his bosses about not knowing, I don’t understand why he should be fired for not firing Smith in 2015. As soon as the restraining order and other charges against Smith recently became official, Meyer fired him. Before that, I’m not sure Meyer could have fired Smith. Even if Meyer’s wife informed Meyer about the content of the text sent by Smith’s wife back in 2015, I’m not sure Meyer could have fired a man for cause on the basis of hearsay or an accusation. Would’nt doing so place OSU in jeopardy of a wrongful termination lawsuit? I mean, according to her own statement, Smith’s wife did not, at that time, file a criminal complaint against her husband for spousal abuse. She’s on record as saying that her parents advised her not to file the complaint because it would cost Smith his job. But now, in some alternate universe, Meyer should lose his job because he did not fire Smith three years ago? Either I’m missing something or this is really all about the possibility that Meyer lied to the media at the Big Ten Kickoff meeting. We seem to be dangerously close to forgetting about due process through the judicial system.

        1. Clarion- I believe your version of the historical movement would be “me to.”

          But I “to” like the idea of taking pitchforks to women abusers.

  26. This is the order of the day….Hope another “big story” hits the news cycle and this gets pushed off the front burner.

    I don’t believe any of them(Meyer or the accused wife-beater) have an ounce of credibility. Dollars afford a very different version of “due process” in a local community thriving on the success of their mighty football program. This very big dude has been “defending himself” from his wife’s aggression since 2009? Right.

    “If I find out you punched her, you’re fired” …..Wow. That seems to be quite the high bar. If you kicked her…If you threatened her…If she was fearing for her life because of constant intimidation..? That’s all good.

  27. It is hard to know how the Meyer deal will work out. He should never have brought the guy to OSU but when 2015 happen, Meyer now says he knew back then, he should have been fired. Meyer now has thrown other OSU officials under the bus by bringing them into the circle saying he reported back in 2015 about the abuse. No matter the year spousal abuse wasn’t acceptable and in many households it never was. Abuse happens when a spouse feels enpowered and then threatened by their spouse. Men or women like that deserve our disgust and it was clear in 2015, Shelly Meyer said she was afraid of coach Smith, that Meyer and OSU didn’t feel disgust at Smith’s actions.

    Po you are confusing what her parents told her in 2009 not in 2015.

  28. /v13- Bravo to you. There is no fog on this issue. Everyday that passes with Meyer still at the job is simply extra lost integrity and decency(if that’s even possible) for OSU football.

  29. Just out of curiosity, had this happened at Alabama and it was Nick Saban you were talking about, do you think there is any chance Alabama would fire him?

  30. Regarding this particular subject and how the timeline(e.g. the extended dismissal and turning of the back on a woman who was communicating her fear and who was seeking help from many close to the program)?
    Personally, I think OSU is not getting nearly enough pitchforks and outrage from all(media, conference, fans). Then again, why should anyone be surprised after watching how quickly PSU is back playing football on big stages? And how much is being mentioned anymore about the horrific acts done to young girls by an MSU doctor?

    Whether or not Meyer(and many on his staff) survives his own muck of a moral compass is rather irrelevant…OSU will be playing football and the dollars will stay protected and kept far from helping any victims of domestic violence. These cowards are teaching the youth of our nation a set of lowlife values that promotes turning of the back on acts of violence, intimidation, and dehumanizing behavior against someone living in fear…That’s the real damage to all daughters, sons, fathers, and mothers.

  31. No law enforcement ever contacted? No court order of restraint issued? If you want to get an employer’s attention serve a court order on an employee. Urban Meyer isn’t going anywhere.

    1. Law enforcement was called, a restraint order was put in place as a result and later a stronger court order in 2018. This has all come out so your statement is wrong HC. I am not saying Meyer is gone but there sure are questions about why he brought the guy to OSU after 2009 and how he handle the situation until it became public. My issue and questions are why when they were seperated and he was abusing her Smith was fired when news of the abuse became public. Meyer’s behavior doesn’t meet the smell test and he had a track record of isues at Florida. I didn’y have any problem with Meyer his B1G press conference didn’t ring true and not even Meyer admitted he lied in that press conference.

      1. ^^^Bingo. The only smell test being met is OSU smelling like a pig farm.
        Then again, the smell of hypocrisy doesn’t drift far from home. Bobby was an OSU grad…Our banners still hang though his actions have always been seen as a stain upon their achievement. The former coach of Butler is now at OSU. There are many Indiana people who have very strong allegiances to the Buckeye state. Memorial fills when OSU is in town for more than just Ohio residents making the trip to Bloomington. Makes me wonder if that’s why IU has been good with a losing football program for so many decades…? “There’s always my sweet neighboring cousin over in Columbus”…..

        Let’s not kid ourselves as to why many from Indiana want to sweep this under the rug. It’s too close to their roots…It’s too close to Bobby…It’s too close to Holtmann…and Why should it Matta…? etc, etc.

        1. Makes me wonder what is Holtmann’s opinion of his football brothers at OSU? Makes me conjure up an old Tremeloes’ tune.

      2. v, you need to pay much closer attention to the details of what you read. ?’s mean making an inquiry with the corresponding statement that precedes them. Very happy the wife took legal action vs. inaction by hoping things just get better on their own. But it is a basic truism that leaving Buckeye hatred out of the equation is impossible. I do not suffer from that affliction.

  32. Perhaps most importantly, leaving can be much more dangerous than staying. “Seventy-five percent of the domestic violence situations that end in death occur after someone leaves,” Hansen says. “It can feel safer to stay. ‘If you stay, I will continue to beat you; if you leave, I will kill you.’ Faced with those options, many people will stay.”

    Ultimately, Hansen says, we’re asking the wrong questions.

    “The question I hear frequently is ‘why didn’t she leave?’ when we need to stop and ask is ‘why did the abuser do it?’ We need to put the focus on the crime, not what the victim is choosing to do—or not choosing to do, as it may be out of their control. We need to ask why someone feels OK physically harming another person.”

    Sounds easy to go to the police…unless you are the one fearing for your life…or the lives of your children. It’s not only years of physical abuse, but years of verbal abuse and wearing down the individuals sense of self-worth/self-reliance. There is nothing more dehumanizing. The woman was reaching out to many and nothing was done.
    I believe Meyer was afraid as well. Suspicion of a violent person or one that is a ticking bomb are issues rarely confronted. How many knew that Nicole Simpson was being brutalized? And it was all trivialized because O.J. was so charming in public(and likely feared amongst those in his inner circles)…..Abusers are snakes and those who turn the other way and empower them more are bigger snakes.

    Meyer is going nowhere….as is the tendency to “put the focus on the crime, not what the victim is choosing to do.”

    1. H4H,
      This is the only thing I want to say about this. Abuse comes in many forms and a great number of those forms do not catch the headlines. Regardless, abusers in any forms should be prosecuted to the maximum extent of the law, and the abused must be protected until all the facts can be determined.

      This being said, it used to be citizens were innocent until proven guilty. These days one can be tried, convicted, and banished to wherever in the court of public opinion before even the first sworn testimony is taken. At this point, to my knowledge, no one has stepped into a courtroom and done so. I not a particular fan of Urban Meyer and even less so of OSU in general, yet some folks have the pitchforks out for him. Whether or not he enabled violent behavior, to my knowledge, has yet to be determined.

      If it is determined Meyer looked the other way, then he needs to be terminated. OSU just better be sure they can make it stick. There have been a lot of wrongful termination lawsuits lost by employers who made rash decisions before all the facts were in. Even seen some lost were charges were actually brought, employee terminated, charges get dropped, employee sues and wins.

      1. Do you need a burden of proof if you find out someone in your own family(possibly a daughter) is being verbally or physically abused? Do you intervene or side on waiting for police reports, trials, convictions…and “due process?”
        If there is suspicion of a coach taking boys into showers and sexually assaulting them….? Do you wait on your own two eyes to catch the sick perpetrator?
        Let’s get real, here. We know what’s being protected. Money and power ranks higher than any amount of decency and protection for those you can easily turn the blind eye. Bob Knight would still be coach of Indiana if not for a Sports Illustrated video. And to get even more cynical, if his job was at a university or corporation truly tied to massive dollars and contracts for the wealthy establishment, he’d been working despite his actions. “Zero tolerance”
        would have never been a thing….What does “zero tolerance” mean at OSU…?

        1. H4H,
          Did you bother to read the 2nd half of the second sentence? “. . .and the abused must be protected until all the facts can be determined.”

          Second question, would you like to be subjected to the same manner of treatment you prescribe? Repugnant as abusers may be, break down constitutional protections and what comes next? Maybe we don’t like what this guy calling himself Harvard for Hillbillies writes, and we are going to take him down in the same manner. Yes, if there is reasonable suspicion you protect the abuse victims at all cost, but be sure the suspicion is reasonable.

          What I am saying is better be sure about Meyer before taking him down and not just a prejudice over not liking him or the institution he represents. You cite the incidents with RMK, while we are recalling ancient history, let’s not forget what happened at the Atlanta Olympics many years ago in a rush to judgement before all the facts were in. An innocent man had his life destroyed, how do you fix that after the damage has been done? Even after the successful lawsuits, you will still have the psychological damage of being wrongfully accused to deal with the rest of your life.

          1. Pretty sure there was plenty of reasonable suspicion in this one….

            OSU is doing all the right things to save Meyer’s butt. Make it a 2-3 week process to “gather all the facts”(a.k.a. manipulate and align the facts with the best answers to possibly give to protect and shield the football program).

            Oh, and by the way…Harvard for Hillbillies is already censored. For over 2 years I have not be given an opportunity to post without my words being first reviewed. Yet, I can be called every name in the book by the old Yacht Club here granted their spontaneity. Hell, I was once compared to being put in a body bag? Think I would have enjoyed a response without moderation to that one?

          2. Constitutional rights…? That’s a laugher as our Commander in Chief incites crowds to chant “Lock her up”…or to accost a reporter named Acosta while we hear terms like “fake news”….Not to mention ripping children from their parents.
            But at OSU we adhere to all things guaranteed by the Bill of Rights before we toss around labels and protect someone from possible domestic abuse.

            Puhhhhhlease.

    1. thinkaboutit- I’ll grant you such an opinion. It’s funny how Kevin Wilson was labeled as scum…and of low moral character by not protecting his players from further injury(subsequently hired by OSU).
      Wasn’t he primarily convicted in the court of public opinion by many IU fans and our administration? Didn’t ESPN run IU’s name and Wilson’s name through the mud on a prime time special?

      But I’ll be damned if it’s a domestic violence case involving some repercussions for a a big dollar program and all the broadcasting potential which goes alongside it, suddenly due process is a big deal before the “pitchforks” come out? Sorry, I can’t help but refrain from being just a bit cynical. Innocent until proven guilty for all. Agree.
      But domestic violence comes with many reasons why a victim won’t come forward immediately. It deserves attention and thorough investigation. There was a trail …and it sure seems like it was trivialized.

      “If I find out you punched her in the face, you’re gone”….? Wow. What an honorable man to draw such a solid line of defense against an accused wife abuser. How about if I find out you “threatened her”…”kicked her”…”grab her so hard that you severely bruised her”…”stalked her in the middle of the night”….made her feel as if her safety was in danger if she talked” …”were continually verbally abusive”…”condoned misogynistic behavior in the locker room?”

      Punching her is where Meyer drew the line…according to Zach Smith’s own words? I guess that’s where Meyer drew the line for Kevin Wilson as well…”Did you ever go all Bob Knight on a player, Kevin?” You merely didn’t care about their safety and berated them until they felt powerless against your bullying tactics?” You’re hired! Just don’t punch anyone in the face….

  33. There is absolutely no excuse or justification for a man getting violent with his wife unless he is defending his life or the lives of his children. And while the vast majority of violent spousal abuse involves men being violent against women, violent spousal abuse does go both ways. Unfortunately, like statutory rape involving grown women (teachers) and teenage boys, the cultural narrative goes in only one direction.

    I had a male employee once who came to work one morning with his left eye swollen nearly shut and a swollen face. This guy was a 6’4″ former college baseball player. He got very emotional when he explained that his wife had hit him in the face with a heavy object while he was sitting on the couch. Most upsetting to him was that it happened in front of his children. Furthermore, this was not the first time she had attacked him. She had done it on three previous occasions. His wife was maybe 5’4″ and 120 lbs. It was hard to imagine her being a physical threat to this large, athletic man, but she would attack when he was vulnerable and unsuspecting. He was distraught because he did not want to file a complaint with the police and jeopardize the care of his children, but he was worried about the long term affects her violence toward him would have on his kids. He was also becoming concerned that one day, he’d defend himself, or lose his temper, and do his wife serious physical harm. Long story short, my employee did not call the police. My employee and his wife got intense counseling, with the emphasis placed on her getting a thorough psychiatric evaluation and then regular psychological therapy. Their marriage survived, and as far as I know, she never attacked him again.

    Meyer has said that when he first learned about the spousal abuse back in 2009, he and his wife were trying to help this young couple save their marriage and that he got Smith into counseling. Should Meyer have fired Smith back in 2009? Should he have ended his graduate assistant’s career before it ever got started? Or should he have tried to help his employee (and his wife) get the help they needed so that the marriage had a chance to survive? Based on today’s narrative and the “zero-tolerance” policies sweeping across the country, Meyer should have covered his backside, fired Smith, turned him over to the police and revealed to the female population of American that Smith was prone to violence against women.

    I have two adult daughters. Both are strong, smart and successful women. Their mother and I have told them since they were old enough to understand to never tolerate abuse from a man, physical, physiological , emotional or otherwise. We have told them that once a man becomes abusive with his wife/girlfriend, he’s not likely to ever change, he is most likely to escalate, and that such an escalation is likely to involve violence. What to do if it happens? Call the police, file a criminal complaint and follow-through no matter what! In other words, have a personal zero-tolerance policy. Then end the relationship……forever!

    If Meyer knew about the additional abuse that occurred in 2015 and did nothing about it, kept it a secret from OSU authorities, etc., Meyer should be fired. If he knew about it but followed protocol, reported it to the OSU authorities, and nothing was done because no criminal charges were filed, should Meyer now be fired for not firing Smith back then? Meyer does not establish OSU policy about such matters. And don’t tell me Meyer valued Smith’s coaching contributions to the point where he would risk his job and his reputation to keep a receivers coach on his staff. Meyer could have replaced Smith with almost any college or NFL receivers coach in the country. He could have hired anyone he wanted to replace Smith and avoided all risk to his career, reputation, etc. Why didn’t he?

    I have a feeling a few senior administrators at OSU may be also be in trouble.

    1. Meyer may have feared for his own safety…or the safety of his wife(since it was Meyer’s wife who was eventually held responsible for Meyer getting the information). Maybe he was holding back on confronting the issue to shield his own wife/family.
      Personally, I find Mr. Smith rather scary. Since he made the decision to go public and put his method of defending himself on quick and full display, I have the right to review his answers and his personality quirks with my own set of biases based on history and experiences. He appeared as a man on the brink of exploding…I would call it “jacked up” and doing everything possible to contain his rage(turning six different colors of red). He certainly did not come off as a person in control of himself. If in a private setting, I’m not sure if the reporter would be so brave to ask many of the questions that were presented. Many of Smith’s answers felt concocted…e.g. the explanation of his discussion with Meyer going down as the following: “If I find out you punched her, you’re done.” Does anyone really buy that?

  34. I spent quite a few years as a paramedic in a busy system. More often than not spousal abuse fits the stereotype. Sometimes you are taken by surprise.

    As several have said, let’s wait for the facts to come out.

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