IU lands top-ranked recruit from Wisconsin

The top-ranked recruit from the state of Wisconsin plans to become a Hoosier.

Three-star athlete Da’shaun Brown announced his verbal commitment to Indiana on Monday, giving the Hoosiers the 17th member of their 2019 recruiting class.

Brown, 6-foot-1 native of Racine, Wis., played quarterback and free safety in high school, leading St. Catherine’s to a Wisconsin Interscholastic Athletic Association Division 4 state championship last month.

Brown scored the game-winning touchdown and two-point conversion in the title game, finishing with 86 rushing yards on 17 carries. He also completed nine of his 21 passes for 122 yards, according to the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel.

His strong senior season earned him first-team all-state recognition from the Wisconsin Football Coaches Association.

Brown chose IU over offers from Wisconsin, Iowa, Iowa State and Syracuse, among others. Per 247 Sports, receivers coach Grant Heard was IU’s lead recruiter for Brown.

“It’s time to make some more great memories,” Brown said. “With that being said, I would like to announce that I am ending my recruitment process and will be committing to Indiana University.”

Brown’s commitment bumps Indiana’s class to No. 38 nationally and No. 9 in the Big Ten, according to 247 Sports.

155 comments

  1. It’s nice to get a top ranked recruit from a rival’s home state, but “the” top-ranked recruit and only a 3 star? Not familiar enough with HS football in Wisconsin, is it that weak?

    1. Wait what? Another commitment? I thought everyone was going to decommit from IU? NOPE, just another piece added to IU’s highest ranked recruiting class EVER.

      thinkaboutit: I don’t think I would call getting Wisconsin’s best player “weak”. Wisconsin doesn’t churn out a bunch of four and five star kids every year but they do produce some solid players. The state of Indiana producers more four stars than Wisconsin but still that really ain’t saying much considering some high schools in Fla have more four star kids on their roster than the entire state of Indiana.

  2. I would say some of the higher ranked kids out of Wisconsin are not QBs or RBs or WRs. I would say they would be mostly OL or DL. They grow’em big up there.

  3. We beat Rutgers and Maryland. Our recruiting classes are still not impressive given the rest of the conference. Even more important, they don’t get coached up during the season or even during the game. Catch a clue Fishspinners. Keep spinning your garbage then when it falls apart in 2 years you will be like the rest of us.

        1. It’s hard to argue the “We don’t beat anyone of significance” comment. I do believe it’s coming though. Even if Allen doesn’t work out (I’m still behind Allen 100%), the next coach will have a very solid roster to work with. And that’s something most incoming Indiana coaches have rarely seen.

  4. Yes, only Rutgers and Maryland. But Iowa, Cuse, ISU and Wisky were after this player too. That’s is a positive recruiting commitment. Nobody on a here this season has been more critical than me about Coach Allen and his staff over the results they’ve produced across 24 games. Dismal. But the elevation in recruiting of the 3 latest classes is obvious and positive. Wilson got the ball rolling and Allen IS lifting it higher. It is incremental by some opinions but just 9 years ago we were signing significant #’s of ** HSers. Not to mention many with no ranking at all. IU consistently ranked in the 70’s – 80’s even worse some years. That’s all over. The trajectory is headed up. Allen and staff hold credibility at IU for recruiting.

    1. I get the feeling that IU told the kid he’d get a shot at QB. His HS highlight tape looks better than Reece Taylor’s IMO. I do think he is more likely to end up as a WR or CB but don’t be surprised if he opens the year as third string QB.

  5. All of you touting how good Wilson was and is, why isn’t he taking Urban’s spot instead of Ryan Day, the real OC of OSU? I am sure Wilson is coaching the offense in some capacity, but not sure if he was really calling the shots like Day was.

  6. Basically, any or most 3 star recruits are good for IU including this one.
    However, how good IU football has been regardless of rating systems used past vs present (like change education grading system to improve grades…water it down to make students look better academically) basically how good IU football is…remains pretty much the same with minimal fluctuations.

  7. I used to say that whomever is the next Kentucky coach will have a talented roster to work with. Mark Stoops had brought Kentucky football recruiting to levels it had previously never seen. But his results on the field weren’t there (2-10, 5-7, 5-7 first three years). I described Stoops as many people on this blog describe Tom Allen. Kentucky stood by their man and the next three year’s results go 7-6, 7-6, 9-3. So have a little more patients with TA.

    1. Just because some coach started winning after x years doesn’t mean ALL coaches should be allowed to stay x years. Lot’s of people play the lottery. Lots of people play for a number of years. A staggering few ever win. But because 1 in a million wins, doesn’t mean everyone should be playing the lottery. If the best you can say about a coach is that another coach succeeded after a bunch of years, you probably have the wrong coach.

      1. I think the odds of finding a good coach are a hell of a lot better than winning the lottery but I get your point. The odds are already stacked against the Hoosiers by being in the B1G East but a winning program is obtainable. They need a stable lifer type coach like Allen. Not some up and coming, leave town as soon as you get a better offer type coach. When you get that greener grass type of coach you know he’ll be gone in a minute and the search continues.

    1. Gotta stay positive. I can’t say I’m thrilled with the way the 2019 schedule looks (4 wins-4 loses-4 swing games.) But the 2020 schedule looks very manageable (5 wins-3 loses- 4 swing games)

  8. fishspinners. You make an excellent excellent point in standing by your man post. There have been many coaches over the years who take over mediocre and struggling programs in all sports where have two or three losing seasons and are just about run out of town only to turn things around the following season into a winning program thereafter.

  9. We get a verbal from a 3-star athlete from Wisconsin and some folks act as if that will change everything next season and beyond. First, let’s see if he signs the LOI!

    I don’t recall anyone suggesting that Allen has not improved recruiting. He has, but not enough to make a difference in his first two seasons as head coach. The problem is not signing diminished talent, it’s the team’s performance on the field. It’s the stupid penalties that kill drives, cost points and lose games. It’s the pedestrian, predictable offense that simply does not score enough points. It’s losing to once moribund teams (MN and Purdue) that have passed IU by. It’s not being able to recognize quarterbacks with the talent that can change games. It’s IU’s inability to adjust to the opponent’s adjustments after the first half. It’s not creating enough excitement to attract more people to Memorial Stadium or keep people in their seats for the second half of home games. Young Mr. Brown, no matter how talented he is, is not going to change any of that.

    I would argue that IU will lose more talent to graduation next spring than it will replace with the 2019 recruiting class. And if that is correct, we’ll be having this same discussion a year from now after IU produces its 12th consecutive losing season.

    1. “I would argue that IU will lose more talent to graduation next spring than it will replace with the 2019 recruiting class.”

      I guess we’ll have to wait until their LOI are signed to really argue this. But Sampson James and Beau Allen alone are two of the top six highest rated prospects to have committed to IU since 2000. And are they really losing much talent come graduation time? Timian, Knight, and Martin on offense. Sykes, Bowen, Robinson, and Crawford on defense are the most notable contributors leaving. I don’t thing any of those guys would be labeled as irreplaceable. I love what’s coming back and I’m sure there will be another grad transfer or two added besides the recruits.

  10. Nothing to discuss, really. IU football is what it is.
    In reality, for every single play that coaches practice and call in a game if players unsuccessfully or successfully execute dictates what coaching looks like.

  11. I would suggest that if certain position coaching changes aren’t upgraded (special teams and OC in particular) by spring, then the results will not get better.
    With all of the coaching changes around the country I’m disappointed to see doing nothing to upgrade. We all are aware of the definition of insanity.

  12. Brad, it would not be wise for Allen to make any coaching changes right now. He has to wait until after all the recruits have signed their LOIs. But even then I doubt Allen will make any significant coaching changes because, 1) I doubt Allen’s reputation or lack of pedigree will be attractive to more accomplished assistant coaches and, 2) IU just does not pay football coaches all that well. You’ve got Coordinators in the SEC that make more than Allen is getting paid. You’ve got head coaches in mid-major programs making more than IU pays Allen. IU’s reputation for not “supporting” its football program (i.e., not paying coaches well) is established throughout college football. In fact, I fear that it is more likely that IU’s best assistant coaches could be poached by wealthier Power-five conference schools as we’ve seen over the last few years.

    But back to recruiting. Maybe now that Urban Meyer has announced his retirement, Allen can poach some of those 5-star players that have verbally committed to Ohio State. And maybe I’ll win the Mega Millions Lottery for Christmas.

    Nothing will change until IU gets a new Athletic Director. Fire Fred Glass now!

  13. You know Mike Hart will be poached. He has done a great job with RBs since joining Hoosiers. I could see Michigan bringing him home or a school that will promote him and pay him.

        1. Wow, after reading that article Locksley might not last a week. Once the fanbase takes to social media and crushes the hire, what will Maryland do? Tennessee ran Schiano out of town in about 24 hours.

          1. Wow this really is a strange hire. The article said they liked him because his daughter knew the Maryland football player that died and because Locksley had personally experienced tragedy because his son was murdered this year. I can see how the connection helps him relate to the current players but I don’t get how it will have anything to do with building a winning program down the road. This seems more about making amends for the University’s past sins.

          2. Everyone responsible for that young man’s death knew him.

            John Gotti has experienced the murder of loved ones, too. I have spent a lot of time around death. Part of the job. I have never tried to use it as resume material.

  14. You all might be forgetting one little thing, a pedigree as OC under Saban at Alabama, is worth a whole lot more than a DC from OSU. Especially if there are extenuating circumstances on the DC and the program hasn’t been to the playoffs recently. Maybe wrong but I would say the prestige of the Alabama program sold the deal.

    1. I’ve seen Locksley in action HCing before. He’s not a very good manager doesn’t hire the best people and tries to cover up that trait with getting himself in trouble.

  15. Have you ever noticed that just about everything/everyone other than IU Football is discussed on IU Football threads?
    It’s like being married to Anne Ramsey and all you talk about is this Anne.

    Throw Peyton Ramsey from the Train!

  16. Sounds like Maryland’s A.D. called Fred Glass for advice on hiring a head football coach!

    davis, you either forgot or purposely omitted my position on IU Football coaches. Just to refresh your memory, I’ve said that IU can’t afford to hire unproven Coordinators. Given the history of IU Football, IU needs to hire coaches who have proven they can build winning teams and transform the football program. IU Football and OSU Football are at opposite ends of the spectrum in terms of history and resources. Suffice it to say that OSU can afford to experiment with a Coordinator promoted from within their program. Transforming IU from a perennial loser into a winner requires a man with more experience. And the last 11 years supports my hypothesis.

    Let’s see what the details of his contract are. Let’s see if he’s a place-holder or has a legitimate chance of keeping the job long term. My guess is that he was selected because he’s squeaky-clean and because of the necessity to retain OSU’s excellent 2019 recruiting class. OSU can’t afford another scandal involving its football program in the near future, so a spotless reputation is probably more important to OSU right now than head-coaching pedigree.

    1. I believe the “pedigree” of the program a coach has high level experience is probably as important, if not more, than simply having head coaching experience.
      I believe having Wilson gave us a sizable boost in football knowledge. He came with a wealth of ideas and insights from a pedigree program. Does it always translate to immediate success? Maybe not…but it builds the relationships and foundation of how its done at some of the top programs.
      Getting a former head coach from a “pedigree” program will not be a very easy task at Indiana. I believe an assistant or coordinator from a traditional powerhouse football program(as Wilson was from Oklahoma) could still translate into a very good head coach/hire.

    2. Absolutely NO correlation between Terp AD and Glass except for B1G job titles. Glass has never hired anyone with the thuggery history of Locksley. I read too frequently your dislike for AD Glass. But honesty about hiring a coach of questionable character steps way out of bounds.

    3. PO- Wouldn’t that most recent 11 years include Wilson? He was certainly “proven” as the OC at Okla. His offense at Okla 2008 scored 716 points and the other years were pretty impressive, too.

      1. Davis,
        I believe you make a very relevant point. Is what the potential coach brings to the table not the most important part? It may not be HC experience, it could be a top program pedigree as an assistant. It could also be the drive and determination to succeed despite all the obstacles. Truth be told you never know for sure if a coach will work out. By all appearances Corso should have taken IUFB to much higher levels judging by his prior success. To the uninformed DiNardo would have been a great get.

        The only thing I look at with TA is can he maintain the recruiting momentum and does he learn from his mistakes. IU is obviously unwilling to shell the mega bucks necessary to get the perceived highest quality prospects, and partly because there is no guarantee of success. If IU were to miraculously hire Nick Saban to be the next coach would we give up on him after 2 years? Remember it took him 5 years to turn MSU around.

        1. thinker, another part of the “potential” equation is the shine of the program from which the hire comes. Someone posted here about the Maryland hire of Locksley being at least partly based on the fact that he came from Alabama- maybe Helen Keller could coach the Alabama offense with success, but it can be hoped that winning could “rub off” on her, too. Such was one of the positives I saw in the Wilson hire; he had been steeped in the ways of a(n) (often) contender.

          You wrote “Truth be told you never know for sure if a coach will work out.” I have written “crapshoot,” but I think we are talking the same language. NU hired a position coach and got a winner. IUFB hired DiNardo, as you wrote (don’t know about anyone else, but I was excited about that one, for sure, so I guess I was one of the uninformed), and IU got what it got.

          1. Davis,
            There was no lack of respect for anyone in the “uninformed,” comment. Rather, I know there were a lot of people across the country who don’t understand the dynamics of a failed LSU coach. With all the resources available to HC at LSU, if you should be producing winning seasons at an elite level, every year. If you are producing 7 and 8 win seasons, you literally can’t coach.

            A coach at LSU is guaranteed at least 7 or 8 wins based on the sheer amount of talent available to LSU. The only difference between the Alabama program and the LSU program is having a coach who knows what to do with all that talent. If Saban or someone relatively competent had stayed at LSU instead of jumping to the NFL, we would be talking about all the LSU championships instead.

          2. No offense taken, thinker. And after the DiNardo debacle, I thought hiring a proven-winner, lower-level, Indiana-born coach who would appreciate coaching IUFB as a career capstone (that is, from the same mold as his immediate predecessor), as opposed to a big-name, top-program coach trying to revive his career at IUFB, was a good move. So if anyone calls me stupid for thinking Bill Lynch was a good hire, I won’t take offense, either. I’m uninformed about a lot of things.

    1. The big thing is how happy will we be in two weeks after the 1st day of NLI signing? If they can hold on to the commits and add a few, will be another good class by IUFB standards. Last I seen it was at number 38, which continues the trend of improved recruiting. This will be TA’s 3rd recruiting class which means a majority of the team will be his recruits as HC. The time for benefit of the doubt is over, and he will have to demonstrate on the field whether or not his vision for IUFB is correct or not.

      1. I would argue that this is only his 2nd full recruiting class but their recruiting trend is still pointing upwards. I’m not going to pass judgement on Allen until after 2020. The 2019 schedule isn’t very friendly but 2020 is.

  17. It will be interesting to see Wilson’s fate. Does he get handed the reins to the offense or are they going to bring in another ‘co-offensive coordinator?

    If it is the latter I think we are seeing the twilight of his career. If OSU doesn’t trust him with the job he was originally hired for It’s unlikely he will be handed the keys anywhere else.

  18. Update: The high three star QB that was scheduled to visit today is no longer on the list. He committed to Southern Miss yesterday.

    There will be 15 kids on campus for an official visit today. Among them, seven are uncommitted and two that are committed to other schools. David Bell would be a very nice get but I have a feeling he’s going to choose Purdonkey in the end.

  19. I feel that Bell will go to Purdue. In reality even if its not Purdue I doubt IU has any chance of getting Bell. That love stuff only goes so far. Why would Bell come to IU? To get beat up in dinks and dunks, a qb who can’t get you the ball deep or in stride? It wouldn’t even make sense that Bell comes to IU. This is the penalty that IU football will pay after spending time recruiting him and so has Purdue’s Brohm. IU offense incompetence will pay this price time and time again. That will make it quadruple hard to really show significant offensive improvement. If Bell does commit to Purdue, purdue football will leave IU football in the dust unless IU can become competent on offense. Currently, no sign of improvement except hope and hearsay.

  20. think, great post and I agree with you. These are Allen’s players. The benefit of the doubt is gone. Time for him to lead the team to a winning season in 2019.

  21. BS….That’s really not fair. This was only Allen’s true 2nd season as head coach. He coached the bowl game(Dec. 2016) after Wilson resigned…but that’s not a head coaching season.
    To really get a roster turnover and a full taste of a Tom Allen team, you’ve got to give him two more seasons to build some experience and depth in his own recruits.
    Firing a coach after only three seasons hardly seems fair at very established elite football programs where rarely a dip in talent/recruiting occurs when there are changes at the helm. But this isn’t OSU, folks. Allen is not inheriting the talent of someone taking over at those types of programs…My Lord, Ara Parseghian couldn’t fulfill the unreasonable expectation you dimwits are demanding of Allen after on 2 true seasons at the helm.

    1. H4H,
      I’m not saying that TA should be given 4 preferably 5 years to build the program. Rather what I am saying is although this is the end of his 2nd season as HC, this year’s recruiting class will be his 3rd not counting the 1 year as DC. Going into the ’19 season he will have on his team 3 recruiting classes or at least 75% of the team coming in under his tenure. At this point “his” recruits should make up the decided majority of the team and should be those recruited specifically to play the system TA desires to use.

      What we should be seeing with TA is a continued trend in improved recruiting coupled with an ability to learn from his mistakes. In the ’18 season I see TA having made only 2 major mistakes. The 1st and by far the most damaging was not having a QB capable of playing at a B1G level. May have been the way the chips fell in that MP was not beefed up to either TA’s or your standards. Could have been they didn’t get what they thought they were getting with Dawkins. Simple fact of the matter is that PR is not a B1G caliber QB and the entire team suffered as a result. From the inability to call the offensive plays I believe they would have, and we certainly would have, liked to seen called. To not being able to cover for a young defense, it all hinged on explosive QB play, which was not there.

      I think it is very obvious they knew they had a problem in the QB room by the way they recruited going into the ’18 season. Went out and got a highly talented future QB in MP, and thought they had something to get them through this year with Dawkins. When Dawkins didn’t work out, had a problem if MP was not ready as you suggest. The other unintended mistake was the special teams, I don’t think TA or anyone else saw that one coming, and I expect him to rectify it before next year.

      Where I will have a major problem with TA is if I don’t see a quality QB on the field from the very beginning of the ’19 season. Unless PR miraculously develops a B1G caliber arm in the offseason, I don’t expect to see him starting regardless of who the OC may or may not be. If MP isn’t going to be ready to go, then they had better be finding a grad transfer that will work out this time or we will see another failed season.

      1. Agree with all of that…Penix’s speedy recovery will be key. If his recovery delays resulting in a failure to get some mass/muscle onto his frame, it could be Ramsey starting again….That would be unfortunate.

  22. IU having such difficulty somewhat smoothly successfully recruiting a high three star quarterback (recurring problem every year) is like playing with such a negative handicap. And yes, IU football needs more than one high three star in its qb stable. It just says a lot about IU football.

    1. We should really change the name from IU Football to RU Football….(are you football?)
      Now it’s just a race against time….Does contact football as we know it cease to exist before Indiana reaches a top-tier bowl game or plays for a BigTen title?
      BigTen title for Hoosier football? We’ll likely see chrome helmets rise from Memorial to the heavens in the inaugural ‘Rapture Bowl’ first. And for those fans leaving at the end of the 3rd quarter? We apologize for being stamped to stay on earth for all eternity. Blind faith have no better measure than an IU Football fan.

    1. I could come up with a laundry list of NFL QBs who were mid three star or lower ranked as high school prospects. Team’s need QBs that fit their systems and not just kids with four star ratings.

  23. T.A. will probably be kept on through the 2020 season regardless of whether he produces a winning season in 2019. That shouldn’t be the case, but it’s the way IU’s Administration, who don’t really believe IU can ever be competitive in football, think about the program. It’s baked into the cake. It’s not a priority for Fred Glass. Just imagine if an IU basketball coach had three losing seasons in a row! They’d run him out of town on a rail! But for Football, who cares, right? As long as the football is running a clean program, not being insensitive to injured players, and the team’s performance is not an embarrassment (like when Lynch got crushed by Wisconsin), then what’s the problem? Generations of IU fans have been conditioned to having a losing football program. No need to be opportunistic and catch a rising star on the way up, or to get a successful retread like Bill Mallory, because it just doesn’t matter to IU’s illustrious leaders. And it doesn’t matter to IU’s leaders because it doesn’t matter to the majority of IU’s Alumni and fans.

    1. Po,
      Regrettably, you are likely correct when you say, “it doesn’t matter to IU’s leaders because it doesn’t matter to the majority of IU’s Alumni and fans.” I believe it does matter to the posters in this forum, but unfortunately it doesn’t look like we represent anywhere near a majority. I think about the only thing which could change this would be if IU were forced to place a better product on the field. How this could occur is up for speculation.

      In the meantime, everything currently rests upon TA’s shoulders to be a miracle worker, like all those who have preceded him. Maybe TA might capture lightning in a bottle like some of his predecessors nearly did. Maybe he will go the way of many more of his predecessors, with a failed tenure. Only time will tell. The mountain TA must climb will not be conquered overnight, but if he can keep moving forward even in small steps and learning from his mistakes, who knows?

  24. Just back from adding another surgery to my resume. Home recovering right now and reading through the postings. I like the new commit to the 2019 class and it seems the class continues to improve. This class should help develop depth and athleticism of the team.

    Too much negativity as far as I am concerned about coach Allen, let’s see how this class develops and what the team looks like next year.

    1. V13 hang tough. No doubt you’re expecting more positives NSD. As do I. Goals can be attained with continued improved recruiting by Allen even if in incremental portions. Hoping for more signers for OL and DL.

  25. K.W. tried to emphasize OL sand DL. Yes, IU needs an upgrade there. It seems that top programs are able to get a few at least lower 4 star lineman to mix in with 3 star lineman in a 4 year recruiting span. There seems to be significant difference between 4 star vs a 3 star lineman making it important to get at least a few (4 to 8) 4 star lineman in a 4 year span. (1 or 2 per year) Of course IU has never done this. Thus, making it hard to win in the trenches.

    1. Somehow Wisconsin turns 3 star O-line prospects into NFL draft picks every single year. I do agree that you need to build your team from the trenches on out. Easier said then done when every major program uses that philosophy.

  26. v13, I hope you are comfortable and on you way to full recovery in the near future.

    As for negativity from posters on this site, first I would say at least the posters on this site care enough to express any sentiment. Most Hoosier fans/alumni that I know don’t even think about IU Football, ever! The sport hasn’t been on their radar screen for decades. Seriously, I know IU alumni who couldn’t name IU’s football coach or what our record was in 2018 if their lives defended on it. Secondly, it’s hard not to be negative when the program has had 11 consecutive losing seasons and IU’s leadership continues to do the bare minimum in support of the program. Just when we thought we had a coach who could get us over the hump and produce winning seasons on a somewhat regular basis, he gets fired for political incorrectness and then replaced by another coach who, to be generous, has to go through the head-coach learning curve. Since then, the program’s performance has gone backwards. Lastly, if you watch the games, you see plenty of signs that confirm that the coaching staff has not been up to the task, that they’re not preparing their arguably better athletes to be successful. Aside from the obvious limited and predictable offensive philosophy, the team is undisciplined and makes way too many stupid penalties and mistakes.

    I look forward to having reasons to be positive about IU football. I look forward to having reasons for optimism about the trajectory of the program. But over the last two seasons, I haven’t been given those reasons and I’m reminded of that old saying, “you’ll continue to get what you continue to tolerate.” The primary problem with IU’s Football program is that The Hoosier Nation continues to tolerate losing.

    Welcome back and be well.

  27. But over the last two seasons, I haven’t been given those reasons and I’m reminded of that old saying, “you’ll continue to get what you continue to tolerate.”

    Like cue cards and topping out at Sweet 16s while nine other Midwestern basketball programs go to a collective 25 Elite Eights and numerous Final Fours?

    I simply can’t understand how those nine other Midwestern programs not IU could tolerate so many Elite Eights and Final Fours while we were rocking the casbah with championship team reunions from the Knight years; reunions supplying a fake feel good vibe as we tolerated ‘The Wizard of Weaves to Nowhere’ destined to getting IU Basketball nowhere near the biggest stages in March.

    Tolerate? Can we talk?

  28. Thanks for the well wishes as it was an unexpected surgery that needed to get me healthy enough to go through gall bladder removal.

    Most of the mistakes were by freshman players except the on late push by Stepanaik. I certainly hope next year the defensive rotation becomes two deep rotation with experienced players. The targeting play was BS as he hit with his forearms and face mask in the UM player’s chest. It was called due to the UM player being knocked out. Imagine our freshman players hit so hard they rock older players on the field. Any time you play so many freshmen the play gets ragged but the good news it should improve in 2019. Our ST need to really improve in 2019 and have players on the field that get the job done.

    The staff needs to show improvement by the team this coming year. It won’t be an easy job with the schedule IU has in 2019.

    1. PO, not much to be added to your post three above this, it pretty much nails it. Especially about the coaching staff not being up to the task. IUFB is plain old unprepared and disorganized. There is decent (not great, but decent) talent, but its hard to discern any logical scheme for using it. (How to use R Taylor? To red-shirt or not red shirt M Penix?) Special teams a wreck despite having a coach dedicated to that. Stupid penalties. Uninspired play and uninspired play-calling. Which is why the question of whether the current line-up is Allen’s or not is not really the issue. Allen really seems to be out of his league. The true evaluation of TA should not necessarily be whether he wins five, six, or seven games next year, it should be whether IUFB looks like a team that has actually seen a football before.

    2. v13, best of luck with the health issues. Getting older isn’t for sissies.

      It is a wonder that, in all these years of competition, the Hoosier powers that be have never gone beyond a band aid approach for football. I think we hoped a coordinator from a major program would be the next big thing but, let’s face it, he made it to 50 years of age before he ever got a shot at HC and nobody seems interested in giving him another. Even OSU seems to doubt him.

      If Coach Allen doesn’t pull a rabbit out of his hat next year the torches and pitchforks might be coming out even though he has been the most successful new coach the Hoosiers have experienced in a long time.

      1. I think we hoped a coordinator from a major program would be the next big thing but, let’s face it, he made it to 50 years of age before he ever got a shot at HC and nobody seems interested in giving him another. Even OSU seems to doubt him.

        a. A premier football destination like OSU doesn’t hire people because of doubt
        b. I’m pretty sure he’s still at OSU
        c. It currently appears he’ll be running the OSU offense as the sole OC.

        Wouldn’t we all like to work for a premier company and have so much “doubt” on our resumes. CEO’s lose jobs everyday(along with head coaches). Bob Knight had doubters. He had too long of a drought after the ’92 Final Four. Next time you’re in Assembly, look up at the banners and give testament to experts with doubt.

        No matter what you believe or doubt in Wilson, it’s undeniable that he changed the perception of IU Football. Under his relatively short tenure(compared to some jobs at Assembly), he placed two premier running backs in the NFL. His offense sure beat the hell out of dunk and dink.

        Allen had the benefit of a year under Wilson. He transitioned into the job with, at least, an input into recruiting and familiarity/relationships with a roster. Wilson came in cold turkey with a roster of nobodies coached by a nobody. The job may be too big for Allen still…It would have been Mount Everest if he came in under the circumstances and culture Wilson inherited.

        Harsh personal feelings and dislike for Wilson based on the limited accusations of his alleged cruel level of verbal treatment toward one or two sidelined players is fine. But he never put a player onto the field that wasn’t medically cleared. I’m pretty sure that’s not been disputed. He allowed his player to ‘Slip ‘N’ Slide’ during hot summer days of practice rather than punish them heartlessly in unbearable heat. I’m pretty sure that’s not the case at Maryland.

        Whatever you think of Wilson as a person is fine. We all make shotgun judgments based on limited sight down a barrel. But to deny the man his influence on the change he brought to Indiana Football is contrary to what this set of eyes witnessed. Dull football is back to Memorial.
        It wasn’t dull under Wilson.

      2. Chet just expanding the factual record of KW. I know a lot about his career prior to Bloomington through business relationships in OKC. While in Sooner land he received many inquiries of HC aspirations. He never advanced toward those interviews because of the locations of those opportunities until sports headhunter and ex-BIG 12 Commissioner Chuck Neinas hired by IU called about the family friendly culture of Bloomington. By the way getting 2nded to Ryan Day is not a slap in the face to any assistant coach I can think of.

  29. I appreciate the healthy, respectful discussion taking place on this string of posts. A few more comments.

    Freshman may have been the source of many of the stupid penalties, but why was is necessary to play so many freshman in the first place? A coach has to factor in the experience and judgement, and not just the player’s athletic ability when choosing who plays. And freshman or senior, good coaches teach their players how to avoid stupid penalties.

    You’re right v13, on paper, next year’s schedule is more difficult than this year’s schedule, so unless we see a significant improvement on the field, we’re likely to experience another losing season, perhaps with fewer than five wins. That would be 12 consecutive losing seasons under Fred Glass. It is simply unbelievable that with such a record, Glass can keep his job! It is infuriating and humiliating that Glass is allowed to keep his job in the face of IU Football’s record since he took over as A.D. And it tells you everything you need to know about IU’s top administrators, Trustees, key financial boosters, and by and large The Hoosier Nation. I truly do not believe their is another university in any Power-five conference that would tolerate an A.D. who failed to produce a winning football season for 11 consecutive years. It tells you that in terms of collective expectations, about wins, about revenue, and about the satisfaction of their fan base, IU’s administration is comfortable with the status quo and created plans based on minimal results. It is pathetic.

    Why has IU spent tens of millions of dollars upgrading the football facilities? Do IU’s top administrators believe that better facilities alone will attract better football players? Do they believe that better facilities will improve the coaching staff’s skills? Are they that stupid? Don’t they realize that in order for improved facilities to have the desired affect, you need a coaching staff that can take full advantage of those better facilities? If Glass were a business man being evaluated on the return-on-investment on the capital spent on those new/improved facilities, he’d be laughed out of Corporate America and never get another job. Without a quality coaching staff that can take full advantage of them, the millions spent on those improved facilities are monuments to futility.

    Rest comfortably v13, and happy holidays.

  30. It wasn’t all that long ago people were questioning Mike Hart’s coaching. All the talk about Wilson ignores it was Seth Littrell who brought Nate to IU. Name another major QB Wilson brought to IU. We remember the high flying offenses but forget about the 2014 and 2016 offenses that weren’t high flying while missing Nate at QB. He left IU with Ramsey and Lagow as IU’s QBs unless you want to include King that never panned out.

    Yes, I don’t like the dink and dunk offense but I have documented how Ramsey misses seeing wide open receivers up the field just to drop the ball off short. Many of the issues are due to Ramsey’s limitations his bailing out of the pocket too fast instead of stepping up and playing too safe. I hope to see positive changes in 2019 making it more exciting to watch IU football.

  31. I’m sure assistant coaches often do the legwork to bring in certain recruits. Ultimately, you’re coming to play for the head coach. Wilson brought a surge to recruiting because he was already seen as an innovator on offense.
    Also, having solid experience from a premier football program like Oklahoma doesn’t hurt.
    Why do people want to keep stealing credit from the man? Is it simply because he was someone who wouldn’t pull punches? With the dismal and pushover reputation that was always the signature of IU Football, it was rare to find a coach who could erase so much of that portrait in so little time. It truly baffles me as to why such success to change the mindset(from within and outside looking in) at Indiana Football directly the result of Kevin Wilson is not acknowledged.
    Allen would have been lost at sea if he would have entered the program under the circumstances of Kevin Wilson…..He still survives because of the new foundation Wilson provided(which is quickly eroding after a dismal season of stagnancy and ineptitude on offense).

  32. Interesting discussion.

    One of the rare gripes in Buckeyeland regarding Meyer is that he is (sometimes unwisely) loyal to a fault to his assistants. He just doesn’t fire guys unless he has his back to the wall by the people he must answer to.

    Based on his history, under Meyer, Wilson would likely hang on to a job on the offensive staff until he retired or beat up his wife. Pretty sure he understood that. It will be interesting to see how his new boss, and former co-offensive coordinator, reacts if he doesn’t like the offensive output.

    He probably won’t be as dogmatic about hanging onto assistants/friends as Meyer.

    I haven’t seen where OSU said there would not be co-offensive coordinators next year and Wilson would be given the reins. Meyer obviously felt that was a necessary move. That would be a change of direction for the program.

    We’ll see.

    1. None of the above changes the fact that OSU doesn’t hire slouches….nor does it change the fact that Allen would be lost at sea had he been given the HC job at IU following the footsteps of the great Bill Lynch. You believe you have a stagnant offense now?

      In five years under Wilson, the Hoosiers set 54 school records on offense. (courtesy: Big Red Today/Omaha World-Herald)

      And if you are a fan of Allen, then give thanks to Wilson for hand selecting him….

  33. Wilson turns 58 next October. If OSU fires him, he’ll get a nice little severance and then land at another Power-five conference school as an OC, where he’ll finish out his career. I doubt he’ll continue to coach past the age of 65 , but who knows. My guess is that he’s not going to have to worry about outliving his savings.

    1. Po, out of curiosity, do you think anyone will hand him the HC reins again? Certainly, age is a factor but there are older coaches out there.

      I think, as far as ever being a head coach, he is damaged goods. Between getting booted from IU (his coming out party as a head coach) and OSU deciding they needed two coaches to do the OC job when one has been enough in the past, it just doesn’t look good. Bad optics as they say.

      It is going to be a very interesting upcoming season in the career of Kevin Wilson.

      1. Money is unlikely to be an issue for him but that is true for anyone who gets into that old boys club.

        I think we all can think of coaches who we never can understand how they remain employed. I’m not referring to Wilson as he has had success in the past. But there are plenty of coaches who seem to remain employed for no apparent reason.

        1. But there are plenty of coaches (replace with CEO’s, politicians, athletic directors, school principals, department of transportation managers, post office clerks, local television anchors, national sports anchors, and every fat cat with the right connections or bribery material to remain untouchable) who seem to remain employed for no apparent reason.

          1. Indeed, and as I’ve mentioned, four league wins in three years just got Lovie Smith’s six-year, $21,000,000.00 contract extend two more years. What’s up w/that? At least Glass hasn’t extended Allen’s contract. Yet.

      2. my 2 cents is he will have no trouble getting an OC job- close to leading Big 10 in offense with IU and Ohio State, led Big 12 with Oklahoma. How much or how little he was the reason for those things is debatable, but some school will be happy to sell his resume to it’s alumni. I could see a second tier ACC school making a hard push for him.

  34. Speaking of the NFL, Jordan Howard carried for +100 yds. for the Bears against the Rams on Sunday night, Dan Feeney is starting for the Chargers, Jason Spriggs is getting minutes for Green Bay as is Chris Covington in Dallas and Cody Latimer for the Giants, and Tevin Coleman continues to produce for the Falcons. Wilson was certainly bringing talent to IUFB, and that was a major achievement.

  35. ^^^Exactly…And it brought for far more exciting football because you could see the talent on the field. Wide receivers actually caught balls thrown more than 30 yards.
    Running backs had big games against more than cupcakes played in monsoons.
    Hurry-up offense was actually hurry-up rather than a hurried huddle followed by too much time at the line of scrimmage figuring out the next play.
    And don’t forget that Wilson experienced setbacks due to injuries as well (Tre Roberson, Covington…being two off the top of my head). Covington was just beginning to regain the sort of confidence and athleticism he demonstrated in high school in his final season at IU.

  36. I don’t know about the authenticity of the good ole boys network but I do recognize results. From Oxford the Windy, OKC to IU and the Buckeye Wilson has been a driver of O’s that drew attention and acclaim. At OU and OSU he did it with very good talent, 4-5* rated. At NW and IU he did it with 2*’s who were supported by 3*’s. Something the present IUFB OC fails to do with a 3* roster. It’s a laugher to expound differently. Wilson is working in Columbus, DeBord is at IU, nuff said.

    1. Assessing Wilson by comparing him to DeBord is a pretty low bar.

      No doubt, Wilson had some offensive success at IU. Allen has had defensive success.

      They both upgraded the talent. They are both light years better than Bill Lynch.

      Neither has produced a winner. Allen is ahead of Wilson by several seasons, as far as wins, but Wilson had to follow Lynch.

      Neither has shown that they have the stuff to be a winning head coach. As fans, we were incredibly patient with the terrible start and glacial progress we experienced with Wilson. I am of the opinion that he had plenty of opportunity to show us his head coaching chops.

      The jury is still out on Allen but, if they break .500 next season, he has unquestionably improved the brand.

      If OSU hires another co-offensive coordinator then Wilson is on a downward trajectory.

  37. I doubt Wilson will ever be a head coach again, at least not for a school in a Power-five conference. I could see him accepting a head coaching job at a Mid-major school. Wilson has at least two strikes against him: 1) he failed to produce a winning season at IU, and 2) he was fired (from lowly IU) for behavior toward players that used to be S.O.P., but is now considered unacceptable in our kinder, gentler and risk-averse world of college sports. Furthermore, given the controversy that occurred at OSU this past fall, I don’t think being a part of Meyer’s staff provides any redemptive value for Wilson. It won’t go far in rehabilitating his image. Lastly, many schools are opting for younger head coaches. Not sure why, but that seems to be the trend. At 58, Wilson may have exceeded his expiration date as a head coaching candidate.

    1. Essentially, Wilson has never been a head coach at a Power Five conference….nor has Allen.
      IU Football has never been a legit Power Five team. There has never been anything “powerful” about IU Football. How can you partake in delegitimizing a man who has already accepted the lowest bar of the profession? Power Five? Has the Ford Pinto ever been the pace car at the Indy 500…because of its power?
      Without our basketball programs supreme ability to prop up the conference during the very important early decades of exploding sports coverage married to the birth of giant media/cable company platforms dedicated to such endeavor, IU Football would have been tumbleweeds in the wind.

      Throw Wilson under the bus until your hearts content…..But what dreamworld are you living in? When you accept the head coaching job in Bloomington, you have permanently surrendered the right to ever be considered a head coach with ‘powers’ anywhere but IU.

  38. “Kinder, gentler and risk-averse world of college sports…”

    You mean like the kid who was literally worked to DEATH in Maryland? Or the habit of playing kids with multiple concussions permanently damaging them in later life, leading to suicide, irreversible brain degenerative diseases and early DEATH. I’m glad we’re changing this BS macho culture nonsense. It isn’t toughness to do this to kids, it is stupid.

    Fred Glass has his issues, but firing a coach for “being a tough guy” regarding injuries endears me to him.

    1. Whatever happened to the “due process” so many on Scoop were demanding for the wife-beater at OSU?
      What due process have you given Wilson? Show me one piece of evidence that proved he went outside of any medical advice concerning a player on his roster? If anything, I remember some on Scoop bitching about how overly cautious he was being in holding some guys out too long when there were assumptions they were ready to play.
      And Zander making any accusations is like a kitten complaining of accepting an invitation to a Pit Bull party. If Wilson made any mistake, it was in considering the twig ever to be fit for the level of football to be played in the BigTen. His life was in danger when he accepted the scholarship but his grandiose opinion of himself(also suffered by Wilson) couldn’t see through the fog of his own self-celebratory cigar smoke.

      1. Before this becomes a peeing contest on Wilson’s treatment/mistreatment of players, I’ll just say that no one at IU ever said that was entirely the reason for his dismissal. It’s a convenient part of the puzzle, but hardly the only piece.

        1. Wilson was abrasive. He was not an ass-kisser. He was the polar opposite of how a soft-skinned lawyer in his carnival candy-striped clown suit preferred to be indulged and coddled.

      2. I’m guessing Wilson, as a high profile individual, received more due process (due to legal ramifications) than the average person could ever dream of being afforded prior to termination.

        Don’t worry too much about Kevin. He got very rich for not doing very much.

  39. And you best credit Wilson over Fred Glass for Zander escaping Bloomington in one piece. Again, when many fans were barking loudly to put the son of a favorite dreamy washed up soap opera celebrity into the limelight, Wilson continued to use him very sparingly against the Murderer’s Row of the BigTen. Contrast that to our current coach acting in desperation and placing a very underdeveloped/frighteningly thin Penix into a crucial point of a game against Penn State. Was that “kinder and gentler…and risk-averse?”
    If it weren’t for Kevin Wilson’s understanding of when/where/situations to use Diamonte, Mr. Venice Beach Dreamboat would have probably left Bloomington in a hearse.

  40. The point of my post wasn’t to incriminate Wilson or Fred Glass. It was to point out the stupidity of the “kinder, gentler…” comment. Also, shows that some coaches (I specifically pointed out Maryland).

    BUT, Glass and Wilson were both extremely vague about why he was fired. I think the taxpayers of the state of Indiana should care. As an alum, I care. “Philosophical differences?” That isn’t enough to get out of a contract. But Wilson took the miniscule buyout voluntarily, so Glass had something on him. Something big. We’ll never know. So we get to speculate.

    1. ‘Something big’ …? ESPN ’30 for 30′ coming soon? The ‘Eyes Wide Shut’ parties of Kevin Wilson. Is that Tom Crean in the center of the circle? OH…MY….GOD. Let us speculate, indeed.

  41. Haven’t looked at the #’s, just a gut feel, but kids seem to be transferring out of Allen’s ‘Love Each Other’ program more frequently than they did under Wilson. If Wilson was mistreating kids, shouldn’t they have transferred out more? Or have the transfer rules been relaxed more than the good old days of 3 years ago?

  42. DD, you appear to be reading something into my comments above that are not there. College sports is getting kinder and gentler, and that’s a good thing. Schools are becoming more averse to risk, and that’s a fact. And those changes are based on some of the horrific tragedies you referenced above, not to mention many lessor wrong-doings. I’m not saying Wilson’s behavior was appropriate or that he did not deserve to get fired. As far as I know, he got fired for not adhering to standards of conduct established by his boss, Fred Glass. As a person who supervises people myself, if an employee of mine knows the rules and willingly and repeatedly breaks them, I’m going to fire him, period.

    My point was, Wilson came up under the old school system. He had his way of trying to instill toughness. He got fired because that philosophy and behavior ran afoul of his A.D.’s standards of behavior. College sports has no use for coaches with those old school philosophies any more. Wilson can probably remain a top OC, but only because as an OC, he wouldn’t have the unchecked power to get away with being verbally abusive or insensitive to players in a way that puts the university at risk.

    1. It has nothing to do with kinder and gentler …or greater decency in mankind.

      Dude, where have you been? You can’t fart against the wind without someone capturing it on their iPhone.

      And if Wilson did anything bordering on terrible, there would be a hell of a lot more than ESPN’s grainy footage attempting to ruin every decent kid who played for a Bob Knight blanketed and condemned to have no redeeming qualities during his quarter century at IU Basketball.

      Kinder and gentler, my ass. People are as downright despicable as ever…probably more so because they must pent-up every hostility in fear of some politically correct and perfect privileged dipstick attempting to ruin their life over any misstep.

      I feel sorry for the future generations inheriting this world of fear where judgments and blanket accusations take the place of eccentricity, sarcasm, and authenticity. Actually, we’re already there.
      Tiny Tim said it best….A life of tiptoeing through the tulips until it simply all explodes in the faces of a civilization multiplied in the DNA of hypocrisy.

  43. Not disagreeing with a great number of the sentiments expressed, but this string has taken on a life of it’s own! Kind of like the string that never ends. Hmm, seems to remind me of an old song that never ends.

  44. Yea, we could use a new topic. Things are going to get really interesting really fast in the next couple of weeks. Next week’s early signing period and the flurry of assistant coaching moves around the country that will follow.

  45. I doubt highly he resigned over program business. But more so something personal. Legal but kind of frowned upon and related to his abrasive, defiant rather cool nature. Very much and every bit a big part of the reason AD Glass brought him to IU in the 1st place.

  46. Well technically, Wilson may have resigned. But in reality he was fired. His choice was, resign and take a half million dollars on the way out, or be fired for cause and take your chances filing a wrongful termination lawsuit (that didn’t work out too well for Bob Knight). Given that Glass is an experienced attorney, Wilson wasn’t going to win that battle. We don’t know the specifics, but the comments Glass made at the time suggested Wilson had not modified certain aspects of his behavior as Glass had previously mandated. When your boss tells you to change certain aspects of your behavior on the job, and you don’t do so, you’re going to get fired.

        1. Yes I have what I feel is a little untold info. Something I sensed early on in his IU hire from Sooner gossip. But since nothing has ever been speculated out of Bloomington it may be just gossip even if it fits my original thought pattern. So it stays where it is. According to online etiquette of course.

    1. 123,
      There is only one way for you and HC to continue this vendetta against DeBord, that is to be willfully blind as to what happened in the 1st half of the PSU game when MP went in. Don’t know why you’re both so biased against the current OC, especially when the change in the offense evidence was blatant enough that HC even had to notice when MP went into the game. Here is one thing you can be sure of, if there is a change in OC and PR remains the starting QB, nothing will change in the offense.

      1. MP did look good that game for the time he played but so did Peyton for the time he played. + it was during PR’s time on the field IU did their scoring. Neither of which makes DeBord a good OC. We’ve witnessed 24 games of his repeated mistakes with ineptness and witless play calling. He has to have much higher rated talent than IU has starting the past 2 dozen games to ever be considered a success. He has blindly and purposely tried to execute an offense geared to 4-5* talent when 3* is all that is available. If there is a change in the OC and Ramsey is the starter I hope the new man knows the proper placement of the round pegs are different than with square 1’s because it is mystifying to the old gent in charge now.

      2. Think- lots of opinion not much thought. DeBord’s job was to utilize the talent- he sat MP and started Ramsey so that’s on him. 7 points all year on 1st drive of the second half- that’s pathetic at adjusting to the game situation. Both Ohio State’s Eleven Warriors and Michigan’s The Wolverine wondered how he is still drawing a paycheck from football. They both have former high-level players on their podcasts- I’ll take their collective opinion over yours.

        1. DeBord’s job was to utilize the talent- he sat MP and started Ramsey so that’s on him

          And we know that it was DeBord and not Allen who decide to start Ramsey ahead of Penix (or Dawkins before the season-opener)?

          I seem to remember an article on Scoop before our first game where quotes from Allen were detailing high praise for Ramsey.

          Lastly, I don’t know how any offensive coordinator looks successful when the qb position is so deficient in talent/arm strength. With deficiencies at the position, you’ve essentially reduced substantially the most important dynamic for a varied offensive attack from your team.

          I believe it was Allen who wanted to stick with Ramsey (until desperation to save the season motivated him to try Penix against Penn State). Ramsey had severe ‘limitations’ to making an offense varied and explosive. Penix was likely ‘limited'(not to be confused with ‘limitations’) because of his very underdeveloped physical state(big arm but scary thin considering the physicality of opponents/defenses in the BigTen East).

          It’s Allen who is first and foremost in charge of putting talent(ready talent) on a roster. I don’t care what you call in plays, you must have a qb who has enough arm to a keep a defense honest. Every defense we played could play up 15 yards and compress the field against us. It hurts your run game. It hurts everything.

  47. think, I agree with your last comment. Doesn’t matter who the OC is, if PR is the QB, IU will have a mediocre, parochial offense at best. He does not have the physical tools to take over a game. What’s the use of having receivers who can get past the defenders if you can’t throw the ball deep enough to hit those receivers?

    If Wilson got fired for something other than “on the job behavior,” then Glass was playing with fire or he knew Wilson would not want to have that behavior exposed during legal proceedings. Unless an employee is violating the moral’s clause of his/her employment contract, or has committed a crime, firing someone for behavior that has nothing to do with the performance of their job responsibilities is a good way to get hit with a wrongful termination lawsuit. Since Fred is not stupid, if what HC suggests in true, than obviously Fred was confident that Wilson would take the money and run and not risk having such behavior exposed to the public in legal proceedings. Hhm, very interesting!

    But my guess is that Fred fired Wilson because of the complaints coming from players and their families who had been injured, and who were not happy with Wilson’s insensitivity about those injuries. Coming shortly after the tragic case at Illinois (and other examples), Fred did not want to put IU’s reputation and treasury at risk, so he nipped it in the bud.

  48. Plus, PO, as I’ve opined previously, it may have been that Glass recognized that Wilson had peaked as an HC (I think he had) and decided to roll the dice (coach-hiring is a crapshoot, most of us would agree) with Allen and minimize the transaction cost by paying a $500k settlement rather than a much larger buyout a year or two later. So maybe Glass figured: 1) minimize risk; 2) get new coach and save a bunch of money (minimized transaction cost and lowball salary for Allen); 3) if new coach is a flop use the money saved to lure big-time HC to IUFB. Okay, maybe far-fetched (especially factor 3), but no goofier than some other theories.

  49. When did Glass peak as an AD?

    Zero Elite Eights in 10 years(while nine other teams from the Midwest have a collective 25).

    Same old IU Football.

    For most of you, the buck stops at assistant coaches. When does it ever stop with the guy ultimately in charge of the two major sports programs at IU?

    1. Who are you talking to? Who is is defending Glass? I mean, I know you want to own it and make it all yours but I don’t recall anyone talking about the great job he is doing with football in particular.

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