4 things we learned from IU’s loss at Minnesota

1. The Hoosiers are in a total free fall.
Archie Miller thought one win might make a difference.

In January, as Indiana found itself mired inside of a seven-game skid, the second-year IU coach believed that merely one victory would be enough to reset his team’s course. A positive result, Miller thought, might be enough to remove the stress of a bad month and reset his team’s confidence.

He was wrong.

Indiana found that one win, a thrilling overtime upset of then-No. 6 Michigan State on Feb. 2. Since then, the Hoosiers have done nothing to capitalize on it.

IU has lost 10 of its past 11 games, and right now, there doesn’t appear to be an end in sight.

Indiana’s program hasn’t endured a stretch like this since the 2010-11 season, Tom Crean’s third as coach, when the Hoosiers dropped 10 of their final 11 games of the campaign.

Injuries have been a major reason for IU’s struggles during the second half of the season. But injuries alone don’t explain Indiana’s ongoing problems with ugly starts, stagnant offense or lack of urgency.

This season’s struggles are a poor reflection on everybody involved, from Miller on down.

There are still six regular season games remaining, enough time to alter the tenor of the season. The problem, of course, is that this team appears unable to fix itself and salvage what’s left.

2. IU is not only struggling to shoot 3-pointers, it’s having a hard time defending them, too.
The Hoosiers connected on only 11.8 percent (2-for-17) of their perimeter shots on Saturday, marking the program’s lowest 3-point success rate since IU made 11.1 percent of its shots beyond the arc in a home win over Minnesota on Jan. 30, 2016.

For this Indiana team, such a poor shooting performance is nothing new. But just as concerning is how bad the Hoosiers have been at defending 3-pointers as the season has progressed.

While IU is making only 27.4 percent of its 3-point attempts in conference play, it is allowing league opponents to shoot 35.8 percent from beyond the arc.

Since Jan. 22, IU’s opponents are shooting a combined 42 percent from beyond the arc.

Entering this weekend’s game, Minnesota had been averaging 3.5 made 3s per game in February. Against IU, the Golden Gophers made a season-high 12.

3. Romeo Langford attempted his fewest shots all season.
Indiana’s top scorer was a non-factor against the Gophers.

Langford took only six shots, and according to advanced statistics site Barttorvik.com, he was utilized on only 14.6 percent of IU’s total possessions. That was Langford’s lowest usage rate on the year.

That, obviously, can’t happen.

In a matchup against Minnesota’s Amir Coffey, Langford struggled to get the upper hand. But even when Langford found himself working against a different defender, he wasn’t able — or, worse, wasn’t willing — to pounce. On two occasions in the first half, Gophers forward Jordan Murphy got switched onto Langford, but both times, the IU guard declined to attack the mismatch.

“It was probably a combination of a little bit of everything,” Miller said of Langford’s quiet performance. “We’ve got to watch the film and then we’ll figure out what we could’ve done a little bit better. But we can get better in a lot of different areas, not just getting shots up. Our team in general right now has got a lot of areas that we can control more so than that.”

4. Race Thompson’s return was a small bright spot.
On an otherwise forgettable day of basketball, there was some good news.

Redshirt freshman forward Race Thompson made his first appearance since debuting on Nov. 9, logging seven minutes, grabbing five rebounds, blocking two shots and scoring two points.

Thompson, who missed 22 games after suffering a concussion in practice on Nov. 11, saw the bulk of his action late in regulation, but the fact that he was able to take the court is nothing but a positive.

And a good story.

Thompson grew up merely 15 miles from Minnesota’s campus, where his father, Darrell, starred for the Gophers’ football team from 1986 to 1989. Getting Thompson back in the rotation down the stretch will help position the 6-foot-8 forward for a comeback season next winter, when he’ll be asked to help fill the void left by Juwan Morgan’s graduation.

55 comments

  1. When I last posted the basketball team was 12-2 and all seemed be on the right track for Hoosier Nation. Turned out to be a good time to take a hiatus and let things play out. Did that in the middle of the football season too, and everything certainly became apparent. Now I want to pose to you a tale of two coaches, and the very blatant case of a double standard of treatment by certain members of Hoosier Nation for two coaches facing very similar situations.

    The question to this bunch is who is smart enough among you to determine the two coaches of whom I speak, and what are the similarities which have produced the double standard? The hypocrites are obvious and those who have been consistently incorrect on both coaches have exposed their own ignorance, but I will give you a hint with a very timely quotation from Mike Miller back on January 20th.

    “Indiana’s poor shooting is nothing new, but as the Hoosiers’ road swing continues, success from 3-point range is critical to opening up the offense. Until Indiana knocks down shots, Big Ten defenses will continue to do what Nebraska and Purdue did this week: collapse, collapse, collapse. The Hoosiers are being dared to shoot right now and, as has been the case nearly all season, they can’t seem to knock down the open looks when they come.” (Mike Miller – “4 Things we learned from IU’s loss to Purdue – January 20, 2019)

    I might be able to count on one hand the posters to this site who are smart enough to figure this one out entirely, but if I don’t post it now, those with the pitchforks at Archie’s gate might just get their way!

  2. Funny you mention Mike Miller like he’s some sort of genius…I brought up 3-pt shooting likely being this team’s Achilles heel before the season began…I also mentioned Romeo’s h.s. stats at the time and the possibility of needing more punch from the outside because it wasn’t the strongest part of Romeo’s game.

    I didn’t need the entire non-conference and two or three BigTen games to know it was our glaring weakness.

    Double standards? That’s part of life. Here’s the simple reality: IU fans deserve far better than the effort and chemistry being exhibited by this team.

    My guess is that you’re comparing Allen to Archie….but there are many double standards between IU coaches or comparing an IU coach to someone outside IU. When you’ve watched 9 Midwestern programs go to a collective 25 Elite Eights and numerous Final Fours over the last eight seasons (with likely many more to come this year) while Indiana has put up a fat zero over the same time span, there is a glaring double standard, indeed.
    We, as Hoosier fans, must accept such mediocrity while watching so many programs spit in the face of such a standard of impotence in basketball.
    We must be patient while we watch the entire Midwest reap the harvests of success. We must watch an Indiana like Kyle Guy garner national attention as he rips nets from the perimeter for a highly ranked Virginia team…while our assembly of bricklayers plays like Keystone Cops.
    Crean was given nearly a decade with some very heralded recruits and he couldn’t reach a bar of what nine Midwestern programs were doing with ease at March Madness. Insult to injury? Watching Loyola of Chicago get to a Final Four. Watching Kelvin Sampson’s Houston Cougars become a Top-10 team. Watching ninedD-1 team from the Midwest not Indiana go deep into NCAA tournaments consistently(25 collective Elite Eights!) while we were exhibiting the great virtues of patience watching a coach in his ninth season using cue cards. And now this dysfunction of a heartless and gutless team merely going through the motions of a coach nearing the end of his second season?

    Yes, thinkaboutit, your post would be valid if our fan base hadn’t been so severely insulted in recent memory. You best expect double standards and hypocrisy because it’s now the boomerang coming back.
    Do I think we truly deserve better? Certainly not from an administrative standpoint. If we were dumb enough to hire the one who walks on water from Marquette, we deserve everything we now get. You can divvy up percentage responsibility for this season’s flop until your heart’s content, but it really doesn’t matter. Archie Miller knew the ludicrous crap over the last 15 years this fan base has endured prior to his arrival. He simply had to put a product on the floor, which, at most basic standard, had to play a certain level of dignified basketball of exemplary effort and caring attitude. Archie needed to display a certain minimum standard of communication and butt-kicking attitude to extract effort our of a team(whether of hodgepodge recruits or hampered by injury). He has failed to meet that minimum standard. It’s gone far beyond not shooting the ball well.

    1. . . . and thank you for the welcome back H4H, I knew you missed me. Jester you disappoint me, I thought you might have caught this one on the first bounce. Rock, you know riddles are the purview of Court Jesters and H4H is our very own.

      Didn’t mean to slight you H4H, in favor of Miller quote. He just summed up the things you have been saying adequately. Here’s the only other hint I will give you. Wrong conclusions because you picked a wrong coach.

      PS I wish folks would stop the pining for all these other coaches. If IU missed any opportunity in the last 25 years, it was passing on Billy Donovan. Possibly could have been 2 more banners hanging in the Hall instead of at a southern football school! Could go down as IU’s basketball version of their Knute Rockne football moment.

      1. It’s really not a riddle when there can be dozens upon dozens of double standard examples. IU Basketball is now facing a double double standard to have this AD ask for more patience. I apologize for nothing of my impatience when we saw a 30 million dollar coach end his tenure with holding up cue cards at a game on storied McCracken. Take that “standard” to the bank a fat deposit slip in my “I Don’t Care” account.

        Coaches/programs you may be alluding to have likely had some amount of successes in the last decade(previous to a new coach stumbling about now) and thus cannot be compared to an IU fan base asked to be even more patient beyond the insults of Dakich, Crean and cue cards over the last 12 years (not including the current blasé/non-caring/effortless brand of dysfunctional basketball nearing the end of Archie’s second season).

        Here’s another swing and miss….Holtmann and Underwood? Though both are getting more out of their teams in year two than Archie with our bunch of numbskulls. Then again, I said Underwood would get things going ….

        Any Steve Alford sightings? Talk about a double standard? UCLA didn’t wait 9 years to know they weren’t getting the next Bob Knight.

        1. Harv,
          I can’t believe everyone has slipped this much!!! I leave all of you all to your own devices, and no one can figure this out. IU coaches, both are hired extremely late in the recruiting cycle and have to make due with the messes left by their predecessors. First opportunity to get their own people in to shore up obvious deficiencies on the teams but can only do so much with freshmen. Both recruit well but know they need quick help. Both swing and miss on key transfers. Both have the same glaring deficiency which you can’t game plan around, and the hint should have tipped everyone off to.

          1. I said I don’t care. I’m tired of excuses and swings and misses.

            I simply want to see guys play like they care. And give me some cheerleaders in yoga pants.

            Both swing and miss on key transfers? I can’t think of too many key transfers coming to our basketball program.

            Remy to Crean….? Beilfeldt to Crean? Gordon to Sampson(not a transfer…more of a broken verbal)?

            Sorry, bro…I’m at a loss. Must be because I don’t live in the world of excuses. Archie landed the most heralded recruit in the state. The surrounding players still healthy are plenty adequate to put forth a product far better than witnessed. This is an apologist’s distraction much like the same rabbit pulled out of the hat from drunk IU frat-rat choirboys over the last decade. I simply don’t care. I could play the same game with you and make you look the same idiot….It has nothing to do with this season.

          2. Crean did lose on the transfer who went to UK? Hagans.

            You’re comparing Georgia Crean to IU Archie…? Glaring shooting deficiency comparable to IU? Is anyone else that bad?

            Alford at Iowa….Luke Recker?

  3. Are you speaking in riddles, Thinkaboutit?

    Because I cannot really understand what you are getting at!

    If you are attacking me as “one of the posers”, please remember (or check the record) and recall that all I wrote is how I would react if I were Coach (hint hint)…(what I said I would do is get a Technical Foul on Tuesday).

    That is no “pitchfork”!

  4. I wrote my reply before seeing Harv’s more-than-adequate response! In retrospect, I wish I would have reacted according (though somewhat peripherally) as the title of a recent movie I’ve watched.

    Il Gran Silencio (translated as “The Great Silence”).

    Yes, those who peruse this site quasi-religiously will recall (perhaps with relish) that I mentioned Django! (which someone else also had knowledge of the great original movie and even knew the Lead Actor).

    This movie (Il Gran Silencio) is simply one of the most wonderful Westerns (or even “movies”) that I’ve ever watched.

    Some (including me) state that ‘the best way’ to pass a (cold) Winter in Indiana is watching the hot (it used to be hot in a High School Gym in Indiana in the Winter) basketball being played.

    This season this remains the case…but for those readers who are looking for escape in a Western movie (cinematically gorgeous, and gorgeous in every other way that a movie can convey) might want to spend a couple of hours watching “Il Gran Silencio”.

    and I wish that I had spent my time re-watching this great movie rather than taking the time to compose a repost to Thinkaboutit, especially when H4h had already done so (but without my knowledge, as I did not see his post until I posted my weak rebuttal.)

  5. And what’s the big deal? Getting a “pitchfork” at Indiana is the gold standard for future success.

    Dakich = pitchfork = reinvention and highly successful radio gig and ESPN gig.
    Sampson = pitchfork = now coaching a Top 10 Houston team
    Wilson = pitchfork = hired as OC for one of the top college football programs

    Our pitchforks are more like golden spoons….Archie can only hope rather than overstay his welcome and drift into known mediocrity…and then coach basketball at a football school. It’s almost a better formula at Indiana. Get your 9-10 million and get your butt run out of town.

    And isn’t getting fired always a pitchfork? There’s always going to be a faction believing how unjustly you were treated even after a fair 30 million “earned” for glorious Sweet 16 appearances in spite of our 9 years of impatience.

  6. Don’t fire Archie…? I’ve heard the argument: “Don’t wish for something too much or you might just get it. ”

    PLEASE! PROMISE I’LL GET IT! …like ….?

    when I wished Knight would drag on 10 years beyond his prime and to the point we were all fearful of having Pat Knight as our next coach.

    or when I hoped Dan Dakich would be the interim coach after the Kelvin firing.

    or when I more than hoped to “get” five more years of Crean after watching our top-ranked team perform as if in shackles against a Syracuse zone?

    Oh, how I wish to get more of the above. Think I’m worried about wishing for something at IU and getting it? Wishing at IU is a well with no bucket. You toss a rock and hear no splash. Should you even make a wish at such a well. Is this deep dark hole in our last 20 years of basketball in Bloomington something else? Is it a window beginning to form from something else? …I’m beginning to think it’s a dead backside of a Bob Knight promise. That’s no wishing well on top of a great hill, Archie.

    1. Harv- Serious question…Who would you like to see as IU’s next coach? And at the time, whom would you have rather IU hired instead of Miller?

      1. I actually liked Underwood a lot….I also(laugh as you may) adored Bill Coen of Northeastern. I once heard an interview with Coen…and I just thought the guy had a true love for the game of basketball(he referenced Indiana’s great high school basketball traditions and history spanning across such wide arrays of demographics and communities). Long before Crean…? I adored Rick Majerus. I would have been in heaven to have Rick Majerus at McCracken if for only a few seasons.

        Somebody recently told me that IU should have went after Huggins….I said, I tend to like fat coaches. I probably would have been good with Huggins.

        Lastly, Patrick Ewing really caught me by surprise. Just love the way he coaches his team. Love his presence …and love the effort from his kids. He looks in total control. Not much older than Archie, but he exhibits far more maturity(in my rather humble opinion). He knows how to relate to his varied personalities on his roster….A true ‘players coach’ who won’t kneel to prima donnas.

        Honestly, this “brother of Sean” thing didn’t turn me on. We hired the last guy because of a connection to one successful NBA player. We hired this one because of a so-called successful connection to a coach in Arizona.

        1. Ewing is 16 years older than Archie….so I guess that’s substantial.

          With Archie being so young(40), I almost feel as if Fred is asking for another sophisticated grape(as was Crean when hired) to age with the Hoosier basketball program like a fine wine.

          Give him time….He’s young. Problem? Most of us who even give a rat’s ass about IU hoops(young people change favorite teams to embrace more frequently than iPhone models) are NOT young. We don’t have the patience for a young grape to become a prized wine.
          We want to guzzle some brews and get something out of our Final
          Four years on the planet.

      2. And since we’re on the subject of recent changes at nearby Midwestern basketball programs….Can we somewhat also model Louisville’s progressive uniform attitudes for cheerleaders? This could improve my patience with regard to coaching changes. Just sayin’….

          1. 17 points for Kyle Guy in first half against Virginia Tech….If he isn’t appearing on an NBA mock draft, then it is their stupidity.
            He remains one of my favorite college players……because he stopped the Crean insanity by not getting sucked in by the preacher. He comes to IU and we’re likely never getting rid of the charlatan.
            Thanks for saving IU Hoosier hoops, Kyle…while still putting the state of Indiana on the map.

          2. I’d start for Crean….He loved nothing more than deflections.

            The yoga pants thing was just for fun, Chet. I don’t want to model the entire basketball program. I did notice Virginia Tech cheerleaders also wearing yoga pants tonight. Think what you may about Louisville, but yoga pants also causing quite the “buzz” at VT as well.

  7. Archie taking over our basketball program could be akin to this huge future star making his first television appearance in 1979. You just never know.

    Fred Glass is our very own Chuck Barris….Hoosiers Gong wild!

    1. C’mon Po, you ought to be able to figure this one out, it’s right down some of the things you have been saying for a while.

  8. 3 pointer, laughable…really laughable and so elementary basketball 101 since its creation that coach Bob Knight didn’t like and having the best shooter, Steve Alford in the whole country winning a National Championship Tournament with what he didn’t even like (meaning 3 pointer). BK didn’t worry about holding himself to standards or character he demanded from his players. However, BK led them or facilitated leadership in players. BK was a leader. And that’s the way it was.

    1. Listened to the first 15 minutes of the Archie Miller show hosted by Don Fischer tonight… Was rather surprised how Archie didn’t own any of the poor play/attitude from his team. It was a lot about players lack of “confidence” and “feeling sorry for themselves.” Long answers …when I’d like to hear quick ownership from the headmaster.
      Maybe it eventually came later in the program….

  9. Gang, it is no wonder IU athletics are in such a pit. The most devoted fan base can’t figure out something as simple as this. Miller’s article stated the obvious, IU can’t shoot. They can’t hit from 3, the can’t hit from outside about 12-15′ consistently. So opposing defenses do the obvious, they collapse. Thus frustrating 2 very good players in the paint, JM & RL. The inability to go over the defense with the outside shot cannot be game planned around. If you can’t stretch the defense, you options become extremely limited. Sound familiar???????? It ought to, I harped on this all during the FB season, exact same problem. Different setting, same problem. If you can’t stretch the defense all it has to do is collapse.

    Now here is where the hypocrisy comes in, for the most part until the BB losing got this bad, everyone circled the wagons around Archie. While on the FB side many of the same wanted to tar & feather the former OC for the same problem in a different venue. That is known as hypocrisy, a double standard. Problem is now the idiots want to run out Archie on the same rail they ran out DeBord. Stupidity is stupidity, you cannot make a great shooter, they are born. You can create an adequate shooter, but legendary shooters such as Rick Mount are born. If you can’t recruit them in fast enough, you’re in the pickle which Archie is in now, and DeBord was in the last 2 years.

    It will take at least one or two more recruiting classes for Archie to correct the deficiencies he inherited from H4H’s “Clappy the clown.” With Penix & Tuttle, the FB team seems positioned to do the same this fall. If DeBoer starts either one then you know the problem was talent, if he starts PR with better results, then you know it was DeBord. If PR gets the nod, with the same results, then you need a new HC.

    It’s just that simple, no wonder athletics at IU stink where it matters. Wrong trustees hire the wrong Presidents who hire the wrong ADs who hire the wrong coaches. It all starts with those who elect the Governor and those who elect the trustees directly, that’s Hoosier Nation.

      1. FS,
        I know you and Chet are not going to like this but there are only two sports, maybe three, that are relevant in college athletics. FB, men’s BB, and in some areas, women’s BB. Everything else is irrelevant in the grand scheme of things. In other words, they don’t pay the bills. Got to understand that difference. Everything else is being subsidized by the revenues generated primarily by men’s FB and to a certain degree men’s BB.

        1. Even with a historically bad football program and sleeping giant of a basketball program, IU still ranks in the top 30 nationally in total revenue. How in the world is this possible?

          1. FS,
            It is very simple, IU is being subsidized by the rest of the B1G by virtue of their association with the conference. Do you think they would have this kind of revenue if not but for the membership in B1G? Recommend checking in to the financial woes at UConn. No slouch historically in the BB world, not so hot in the FB world. Check out their athletic department problems, no where near the revenue in the American Athletic Conference as with the B1G.

            At some point you would think the B1G would get tired of carrying the dead weight of programs which do not bring significant marketing appeal to the table. Make no mistake, like it or not, college athletics is about money. Primarily lucrative television contracts, how else do you fund the rowing team?

          2. Sorry, thinkaboutit….Your comments sometimes make me very ill to the stomach. IU Basketball put this damn conference on the map…..There is no way to quantify what IU hoops and Bob Knight did to infuse the dollars and viewership in the days of March Madness truly catching fire.

            Even with our current irrelevance in basketball, the BigTen would be at a complete loss without the lore and the bragging rights of those five banners you discount to Kellogg’s Cornflakes.

            What have you done for me lately, IU?….is so, so unfair. Now when all the money is to be had with cable rights, streaming rights, etc. etc….it is forgotten where the true foundations of greatness holding up the house began. You’re as damn bad as those numbskulls now wearing the Indiana name on the jersey who remain clueless to the grit and determination to hold such an honor under those banners.

          3. Much gold to be found now….Much “subsidizing” now for the gold rush to the cash in cable packages, network deals, streaming rights, shoe company and athletic attire deals, etc. etc.

            But who built the goldmine? Who plowed through the walls of rock when the dollars weren’t so easily at the fingertips? Who was putting it all on the line and winning for the BigTen name/product when there wasn’t the easy money or the financial rewards with much lower risk? Take a look up to those rafters in ASSEMBLY HALL( minus the Simon Snot nonsense)….That’s who.

            And now they ask us where’s the gold when we built the effing BigTen mine when it had nothing of national relevance without our basketball program? Laughable. Establishment deceptions to the max.

        2. ^^^I agree with that….But many are dreamers if they believe IU’s best shot to become consistently relevant on national sports stages again will be had in football. We have been sidetracked….and hoodwinked to believe hiring basketball coaches who could place talent in the NBA and “talk the talk” would sustain average relevance in basketball while the grand experiment to bring winning football to Bloomington took precedent.
          Such misguided whimsical treatment of our basketball program (culminating in a 30 million dollar drama queen coach painting our basketball program as completely clueless as our football program with verbal assaults at IU “wreckers” and “cue card” coaching) had put us in zero trajectory mode until the Archie hire.

          Sorry, gang. There is only one sport at Indiana where national relevance has the slimmest shot at revitalization….No halfhearted promotional gimmicks or “Hoosier Rising” DVD’s …or catchy slogans …or “Everything Hinges” sell jobs on one Indiana recruit(whether a Zeller or a Romeo) will be enough. We must understand this is not an equal opportunity race between football and basketball. If that is the mindset, we will continue to fail and remain relevant in nothing…other than an Olympic breaststroke whoop it up moment every 10 years…IN YOUR FACE, RUSSIANS!

          Just a reminder….We once had a guy named Mark Spitz taking home 8 gold medals while seeding the garden to have the best college basketball program on the globe. Spitz and Knight…? The first Splash Brothers.

  10. thinkabouttheSEC- My first response to you on this thread (start of 4th paragraph):

    Harvard for Hillbillies says:
    February 18, 2019 at 12:43 pm

    My guess is that you’re comparing Allen to Archie

    So you allowed me to go on a wild goose chase when I was correct from the very start?
    That’s not very nice.

    And DeBord/Allen had a shooter at their disposal! They had the Rod Wilmont of IU Football to heave the bombs. He had Michael Penix and left him on the bench!

    Of course, I thought he needed to beef up…but you believed it was nearly criminal to not be playing him over Ramsey.

    And I’m not being the hypocrite because I’ somewhat defended Allen/DeBord for not playing Penix due to what appeared to be his physical maturity.
    Before Archie even acquired Fitzner, I was saying this roster possessed an Achilles Heel with regard to perimeter shooting. Even when they had Robert Johnson(after Yogi left) the inconsistencies from the perimeter were glaring. Archie knew the problem with perimeter consistency existed in his first interview. I believe he underestimated the conference while thinking his style, and his defensive mindset, could mitigate the shortcoming. Archie thought he could “dunk and dink” his way through poor perimeter possibilities via better ball movement, stronger defense, stronger transition game, less turnovers, etc.
    But it’s not the only problem….It doesn’t exist in bubble outside of the mental facets of a game. You don’t have four downs to make one completion to an open basket. The problem is confidence. Some of these guys shot the ball far better in high school. There is no true inside dominance on this team. Options are limited (call it no inside running game for a football analogy if you will). Pressure mounts on your perimeter shooters(quarterbacks) when other options for “easier” buckets become limited.
    Defenses don’t need to cheat/collapse all that much because, in reality, outside of Morgan, our inside game is just as weak/banged up/far less than 4 or 5 star material.
    Watching the ball go in the basket(even if it’s five buckets in the paint from Cody Zeller) make that next outside jumper have a ton of pressure off because there isn’t any amount of collapsing that can truly stop dominant inside talent.

    But I’m disappointed in you….I said you were comparing Archie and Allen. Your analogies between football and basketball work at a certain level…but are flawed in many respects as well. At least Allen brought in a Penix…and a Dawkins(though he ended up quitting). Archie had time to get some perimeter shooting ….He made a late move for Fitzner because he realized he underestimated just how bad it was.

    1. H4H,
      To make your stomach feel a little better, I am beginning to believe your thoughts on MP’s physical readiness to be correct. I think the grand plan was for Dawkins to fill in until MP could get up to speed. Unfortunately, the plan fell apart and they were stuck with PR.

      I agree Archie knew he had a problem with perimeter shooting and I think he was counting on his strategies and the incoming freshman to offset the deficiencies. No way to predict you would lose JH for the season, RT for a significant portion, RP’s injury to affect his decent perimeter game so much, and a host of other issues to lengthy to detail. Don’t think he was counting on DA for a couple years but was forced to press him into service much too prematurely. Like TA & MD with Dawkins, Archie’s gamble on a transfer bombed when Fitzner proved to be ineffective.

      Problem with Hoosier Nation in both cases is the desire to throw the coaches under the bus for inadequate talent before they have enough time to acquire it. There is an old adage, “You can’t make a silk purse out of a sows ear.” Unfortunately, Hoosier Nation possesses far too many who do not understand this so they throw stones at the most visible targets, the coaches. In both cases expecting miracles from one recruiting cycle is grossly unfair to the coaches, and yes, both MD and Archie thus far, only had ONE recruiting cycle.

      1. I’ll stick with Archie far longer than the last bozo…He just wasn’t my first choice.

        It’s odd….When you win basketball games, you get far more attached to your heroes wearing the uniform…and the coach sort of disappears into the haze of it all. When you lose basketball games, you care far too much about the coach and the players lose much of the innocent eye of childlike idolization.

        I miss having heroes on the court and not giving a rat’s ass who was holding a clipboard. Win…or lose , the clipboard holders get far too much magnification. And some of those old clipboard holders who couldn’t put the ball through a hula hoop in their long lost basketball heyday soon turn into ESPN analysts/broadcasters or radio shock jocks…They profit off the Indiana name and become the best damn armchair quarterbacks/head coaches in all the land.

        We really need to give this high school game and college game back to the players….Just about any capable D-1 coach could win with top talent. It’s really not rocket science…and certainly doesn’t warrant 3 million bucks per year in salary. The glory is in putting the round leather object through the orange cylinder.
        Even wanting a coach’s head on a platter is serving attention his/her way, overselling their importance, in such a foolish way. There are only a handful of coaches who could actually serve as dysfunction to a talented roster. Sadly, we had one of those previous to Archie.

      2. And all those roster deficiencies, lost gambles and untimely injuries still does not excuse heartless and gutless effort.

        For all the attacking of done of Mr. Crean(he made his own ugly bed in those early years), he still extracted effort and heart out of guys who were more mid-major talents at best…Pritchard…and Danny Moore…and VJ III…Bobby Capobianco, Maurice Creek…Remy Abell. They played the game with full-out effort. They wore the candy stripes as if it meant something to them. Was that all Crean? I miss seeing guys that cared.

        This bunch just plays the game like it’s a Sunday at the park….A little flash…A little show. But very little heart or ability to inspire teammates.

  11. And another thing…I’m certainly not asking for Archie’s head on a platter. We have a coach with a far higher aptitude for the game than anything witnessed from the last head coach. I knew there would be talent holes….I just didn’t expect Archie to be quite as easygoing in his public persona amidst many glaring problems that go beyond shooting the ball(mostly in the “intangible” areas of mental tenacity/camaraderie/communication/leadership/maturity/headiness).

    I’m frankly more disappointed in the ability(or inability) to instill confidence and belief. I’m disappointed in the failure to exhibit a hint of in-game teaching when yanking a kid from the floor (e.g. Sitting a kid down and talking to him for 15 seconds on the bench after some glaring mistakes) Where are those one-on-one teaching moments every coach must find time for even in the midst of heated competition?

    Problems abound in leadership…and comfort levels between coach and his roster…and within roster. Did it all go kaput simply because the balls stopped finding the nets from the outside? Too simplistic.

    1. I know, but articles I’ve seen in the last few months say they have money problems with the athletic Department.

  12. The quality of interpersonal relationships in a game consisting of primarily one sideline leader and a mere five guys on the floor is an imperative far beyond what most understand of basketball.
    To compare such tight-knit chemistry dependent and codependent in every possession on the floor to the strategic drives, interruptions, and mass subgroups of a football team demonstrates a full lack of understanding basketball’s intimacy and uniqueness.
    The top basketball coaches mold that intimacy into a composition unbreakable in heart and purpose. The top coaches must possess the interpersonal skills with the aptitude to make five on the floor function without wavering from purpose. One person missing an assignment in basketball is always a disaster. One of five who decides to play aloof destroys all a coach builds. Fast, furious …and complex is basketball. But at its truest roots stripped of the speed, shooting accuracy and athleticism is a basic unit who must truly care about each other to ever be worth a hill of beans. If merely one doesn’t believe in such a basic belief, the game suffers dearly.

    1. Okay H4H,
      You seem to have forgotten I won’t let you get away with every statement. You have a rather short time period of perspective regarding the B1G. Couldn’t reply directly to the original posting, but here is the offensive post: “IU Basketball put this damn conference on the map…” Number 1, the B1G was major conference long before Branch McCracken hung the first banner, let alone RMK. Matter of fact, IU wasn’t even a founding member of the conference. FB was long the B1G’s major calling card which unfortunately has not been up to historical standards in several years.

      As for your comments regarding bb chemistry being tighter knit than FB, I call BS. I leave the finer points regarding this to the others, but tell that to an OL or DL.

      PS Sorry about your illness of stomach, I shouldn’t have left you to your own devices for so long.

      1. It was a major conference with no banners…..until Indiana Basketball put it on the map.
        The only undefeated season in the history of college basketball is from where? Three simple letters…B, I, G. But when sports were not a 24/7 diet of peanut butter spread upon the world’s largest slice of bread, there was this tiny town in Southern Indiana with a coach who could bake up wins like few others from this “BIG” conference. Now you sport your inflated BIG chest around because there are more dollars than methods impotent old men can get ED drugs.

        I know who brought the banners to the BigTen. And even with our drought, nobody in this conference has ever demonstrated such shoulders to hold up the pride when sports was exploding onto the scene.

        You’re an SEC man …You’re an Establishment man jealous of Hoosier greatness.

  13. thinkaboutit, BRAVO! Congratulations on posting the best series of comments seen on this site in a long time. The following comment is exactly right; “there are only two sports, maybe three, that are relevant in college athletics. FB, men’s BB, and in some areas, women’s BB. Everything else is irrelevant in the grand scheme of things. In other words, they don’t pay the bills. Got to understand that difference. Everything else is being subsidized by the revenues generated primarily by men’s FB and to a certain degree men’s BB.”

    I dare say that the vast majority of IU fans would trade being ranked #7 in Capital One Cup for a winning football season or a Big Ten Basketball Championship. I’d certainly make that trade any and every day. And if you were to survey 100 random Hoosier sports fans on the street and ask them what the Capital One Cup is, you might find five people who could answer correctly. Furthermore, if you asked those same Hoosier fans where IU is currently ranked, maybe one person would know the answer, and even less would care. Don’t believe me? Go to any IU Men’s Soccer home game or IU swim meet and see how many open seats there are.

    Ironically, and what so many people refuse to accept is that a successful football program, and the enormous revenue such programs generate, makes it more likely a university will have more successful non-revenue-producing varsity sports. You either generate revenue from football and basketball, or you get wealthy alums/boosters to donate large sums of money to the school’s athletic department. But most large donors want their money to fund buildings, like monuments, that will carry their names for decades. Donating large sums of money to underwrite coaching salaries and recruiting budgets does not produce the same ego-gratification. So the extra money necessary to hire and maintain the best coaches for all varsity sports usually comes from football revenue or the school’s share of conference TV revenue. At IU, since football revenue is so weak, we are far more dependent on TV revenue from the BTN than schools like OSU, MI, MSU, PSU, IA and NE. And as Fred Glass has said repeatedly, IU just breaks even on Men’s Basketball (i.e., IU Men’s BB spends everything it makes and therefore Men’s BB does not generate any surplus that can be spent to improve other varsity sports).

    This why it is so profoundly stupid for people to say, “Well IU is a basketball school.” Even Fred Glass understands that IU can’t afford to be just “a basketball school.”

  14. We need to continue to improve the big revenue generating IU sports. We have to continue to feed our Soccer program.

  15. Grossman from Indiana….Cutler from Indiana. Pouty spoiled overrated overpaid soft jelly-filled choke artists….in the land of Larry Bird, Oscar Robertson, candy stripes, Five banners….and, dare I say, Brad “The Genius” Stevens because the Butler did it?

    Such recent insults to the professional football game coming as rare afterbirths from our tiny state makes me understand those who choose football as a panacea in Bloomington. Just like Jay Cutler…You seize the loneliness of a stage in which nobody cares because it’s where opportunity for popularity has its greatest probability.

  16. thinkaboutit- You’ve got the Grand Crean Apologist in your corner. You have now passed your Establishment Eye Exam.

  17. Somebody should really tell the Boilermakers to slow down in basketball ….They are so misguided because it’s only their revitalized prized football program that took them to a 64-13 victim of a robbery and assault on their way to Fort Knox…lol.

    Damn, that Boiler football program is just stealing the headlines from our impotent hoops.

  18. Let me know when they line up outside Michael Penix’s Indiana high school by the thousands to announce he’s coming to play for the Hoosiers.

    After no banners for over 30 YEARS, Indiana residents lined up by the thousands, brought sleeping bags to a high school parking lot in New Albany, called in sick to their 9 to 5 garbage truck delivery job, for a seat and a glimpse …at an 18-year-old quiet kid they thought to be Moses coming from the banner mountaintop….(not to be confused with Moses Malone).

    Yeah, wake me from my comatose existence when in a 1000 years such anticipation is given anything made of a piece of pigskin in Bloomington.

  19. Knight hated the BigTen Tournament…Know why? We, as their most massive target to build an audience, were giving them “BIG” folks free advertising.

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